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Linux boots on MIPS palm-sized computers
SheldonYoung writes "Brad LaRonde and friends have Linux up and running on NEC MIPS Vr41xx palm-sized machines, such as the Casio E-100 and Vandem Clio. Those interested can grab the source and documentation from his Linux-MIPS Pages.
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My coworker has a WinCE device (NEC I think) and I must say, the one feature I love about it is INSTANT ON and OFF. Turn it on and boom, right where you left off, no waiting for bootup. That rocks!! Waiting for bootup sucks, especially on portable devices that you may take to class, meetings etc... I would like to see someone develop a plugin cartridge (nintendo style) that contains the OS, slap it in the side of your computer and boom instant Linux, NT, Solaris whatever... virus's couldn't fuck with you. Use a hard disk for user files... want to compile a new kernel? Flash the old rom.
A co-worker of mine has the Casio e-100 and although I loathe WinCE (my gosh! wince!) it does some cool things like the ability to play MP3's and movies. He even created a web site with e-100 optimized versions of movie trailers. (PalmSizeMedia.com.) He also did a bunch of MP3 player skins.
Once they get Linux driving that display I think I'll need to look at buying one. Linux in my hand would rool, although my Palm V pretty much kicks arse as it is!!
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Don Rude - AKA - RudeDude
RudeDude
Perl/Linux/PHP hacker
Outdated? The *BSD's? Not a bad piece of flamebait you've got here, either. Clearly you get all your info about technology from sites like /. instead of actually trying the different technologies yourself. A couple years ago I'm sure you said that "NT rules and UNIX drools", didn't you? All that press coverage and hype over NT swayed you to the dark side, didn't it? Now you've jumped on the Linux bandwagon and you're still cool (in your own mind). Whatever my opinions of which OS is the "best" (although none are best in ALL situations ;) I have to say that anyone with any real experience with the multiple OS's would find that the BSD's are here to stay. It is not necessary for a OS to get lots of press for it to be any good, or for that matter, for it to be the BEST. Period.
Newton hardware, as great as it was for its time, is poorly documented in Apple tradition. The hardware is also relatively expensive (~$500 used) . Besides, porting Linux to Windows CE allows one to 'liberate' another platform from Microsoft. ;-)
Do you know what a beowulf cluster is? I'll give you a hint, its not for webserving. PVM and MPI would be useless for 99.99% of web applications out there. In other words, it might be interesting to make a web serving cluster out of those 486s, but it would NOT be a beowulf. Go read the beowulf FAQ, it covers what exactly a beowulf is and isn't.
andrewgaul wrote:
Newton hardware, as great as it was for its time, is poorly documented in Apple tradition.
Poor documentation may be a Macintosh tradition, its not an Apple tradition. I remember when the Apple ][ came with not only more documentation than any PC's today come with, but included in the documentation were tidbits like the complete and commented assembly code of what's in each of the ROMs. I miss the Woz.
Even with the Macintosh, you can get more complete and accurate documentation than some systems I can think of (you just gotta pay for it).
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Open mind, insert foot.
Please remember that Intel got the Strongarm during the Digital carve-up, so your statement that these things have far lower power consumption than any intel CPU is laughably wrong.
http://www.mrl.nyu.edu/perlin/ demos/quikwriting.html
I understand the Palm V has a months utility in one charging (~50 hours, est.). My Palm 3 goes a bit longer than that on two discount (Panasonic) AAA batteries.
CE machines just can't compete. I have a MP130 which I loved, but that one took 4 AA's every week and a half, and that bit the big one. Great backlight though... until it stopped working.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
I've been working with these devices for 2 years now, both on a consulting and personal level. I own a Compaq C-140 and a Philips Nino 210.
There is an IBM Microdrive out which has 340MB space and a Flash ATA interface. If there is a way to compile PCMCIA and Flash ATA support into the kernel for this HPC Linux, and use this as a file system, this will be good.
IBM will be releasing these Microdrives in increasing capacity over the next few years.
This means that an HPC device will be able to run Linux well with good storage capacities, and possibly the ability to run extended desktops and the open source databases like mySQL without the nasty overhead of WinCE. Plus, it means I can carry a lot more with me in a smaller package.
It also means that some of the vertical markets such as Data Collection that use HPC's can now use Linux instead of the three Windows variants (9x, CE, NT/NTE), and do well. It will be possible to create more reliable data collection devices that use already existing hardware, without worrying about the development issues currently in place, such as keeping three variant codebases. It also makes development and implementation much simpler, since you don't need the nasty amount of kit you need for CE to develop.
Combined with a good PIM and a web browser, these devices will more than likely work better than straight CE. That, and the apps would be a LOT smaller.
However, one issue that needs to be addressed is modems. Most of these devices, in particular the Mobilon/Clio, Compaq C-Series, Mobilon 4600 and 5000, Nino, and Casio, implement software modems. That issue needs to be cleared up, since most HPC's come with one PCMCIA/Flash slot.
I am looking forward to putting Linux on the C-140 (SH-3) and prolonging its useful life. CE just runs too slow on it. A decent shell and the ability to run apps is all I really need.
I don't think Slashdot is pro or con anything. The fact that BSD is in decline and that it is not cool is well known to most Slashdot readers. Slashdot is about cool stuff for nerds. It is not a hangout for fans of old technology like BSD. Slashdot is about the future, not the past. You are letting your own prejudice for your pet OS cloud your interpretation of the refined tastes of the Slashdot community. Your comments are more a reflection of your own shortcomings than anything else. Try to see the world from the viewpoint of others. Open up and learn something. Let yourself grow. You may discover something really cool in the process.
Unfortunately BSD doesn't do me any good; since BSD is dying there isn't much of a future in using it. On the other side of the coin there is Linux. Linux's growth rate is phenomenal which makes it a much more attractive choice. When faced with the choice between an "also ran" and a winner, I'll chose the winner every time: Linux.
And people thought those who ported OpenBSD to the Dreamcast has too much time on their hands.
Along that vein, why isn't this "wacky"? Have Slashdot's editors decided to exercise editorial control over the thoughts of their readers?
I should port linux to the OnStar gps in my neighbours lincoln :P
I want to be able to boot Linux on my aero. I wonder how much work will have to be done to get linux to boot on it?
Thats really cool though, glad to see it being done.
OBLIGATORY BEOWULF COMMENT: Lets build a beowulf of these little hand held devices and take over the world!!!
Hmmm, didn't see any screenshots... I wonder if it could do anything useful. not to mention the site feels like it's running off of a 56k modem.
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Now if we could get the Java Micro edition to run under Linux on these things, we would have platform options at the palm top level!
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
Look at the pics of the products. I don't see any keyboards.
The search effects the results.
Actually, there was something on Slashdot awhile back about handwriting recog that involved a square with 9 sections arount the outside, and 1 section in the middle. Each of the 9 section had 5 or so letters and numbers in it. Basically, you moved the pen from the center, to one of the sections, and then to another to type each letter. The page it was on had an applet that let you test it out with your mouse. It worked quite well with my trackball, it would surely be much better and faster with a stylus.
Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
Given that the machines in question have keyboards, reasonable CPUs and decent amounts of storage, they may actually make quite respectable portable UNIX boxes once the port is usable. It'd save one from having to lug around a laptop to have something that speaks UNIX and holds one's files.
At least this makes more sense than the PalmPilot port; unless someone makes a handwriting recognition engine for Linux (and a shell that's not hideously painful to use in this manner), a Linux-based PalmPilot is useless unless you carry around a terminal to plug into it.
I thought I had read something about this but for the MP2K and the Pilot?
I could be wrong. Mountain Dew has been known to cause hallucinations if you drink it by the gallon =)
Killing spammers is too good for them.
The Vadem Clio is a really terrific looking piece of hardware. I have no need for a Windows CE machine, but if they can get X running on it and a wireless LAN card I'll definitely buy one.
By itself the Clio's CPU is nothing to write home about, but with the full power and connectivity of a desktop machine presented over a lightly loaded wireless LAN to something with the Clio's form factor it will definitely be a great machine.
Palmtops are the wave of the future. All the analysts say this. Personally, I believe they will be important, but I tend to scoff at phrases like "the wave of the future". Regardless, palmtops provide the bulk of computing needs in a simple, portable form.
Right now, you have two choices in palmtops. The Palm Pilot and WinCE. I like the Palm Pilot, but it's too restricted. WinCE machines offer a little more, but who wants to run WinCE?
Linux on a palmtop offers, IMNSHO, the best option. You get the extra power for a WinCE machine (including keyboards), but you get a decent OS.
Why hasn't this been done before? Because it's HARD! WincE machines don't have a lot of the goodies desktops have. Stuff like MMUs, open specifications, large hard drives, etc. Brad LaRonde, et al, should be given a number of coolness points here.
They did something technically difficult
They did something sexy
They did something new
They did it without a bunch of corporate sponsorship or hope of money and fame
They did it OpenSource
And just because They did it.
Citizens Against Plate Tectonics
Hmmm, didn't see any screenshots... I wonder if it could do anything useful.
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Have FreeBSD questions?
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goddamn, what are they running their website on a palm device or something?
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2B1ASK1
Linux has been running (more or less) on PSION for a while now... You can check it out here:
http://www.calcaria.net/
I would rather see linux on a WinCE machine though, as they usually have better expansion, faster proceesors, etc... But the PSION has a really nice keyboard, and the 5mx PRO boots from compactflash, so it would be possible to have a palmtop that is completely linux, with no other OS installed. And it works right now (which can't be said for the WinCE machines).
WinCE devices are not selling very well right now, dispite having hardware that is arguably better than that of a Palm Pilot. Manufacturers are having to drop the prices on these just to move them out the door.
If Linux and BSD can get running well on these, and someone can develop a good, simple GUI (X doesn't count for this, I don't want to see Enlightenment an a screen that size) we may see this hardware come out faster with lower prices than before (no WinCE licensing fees to increase the price)
These could be killer machines, running a Linux kernel and a GUI that is as simple as the Palm Pilot. Enough hobbyists will pick these up that there will be no shortage of free applications. Hell, even the compiler is free, so people wont need to shell out fot CodeWarrior as for the Palm Pilot.
All in all, this could be very good news, and I am not usually one to evangelize Linux.
Andrew
Anybody heard anything about an SH3 port?
are you on crack ? GCC for the palmpilot is *the* way to do palmpilot development..gcc is free, the palmos emulator is free, the roms were free.
This is /., home of the Linux bigot.
/. readers will berate it.
Therefore, if it is Linux, its not 'wacky'.
Notice how NetBSD, provider of boot code to other handheld projects is NOT mentioned. But, when NetBSD is mentioned, I'm sure the dedicated
Carry on, Linux bigots!
"Because we can."
That phrase embodies why Linux ever came into existance.
Anyone got ideas on making a version of 68K Linux that could be loaded on a TI-89/92+ calc in the form of a FlashROM? We have the writer... and the 68K compatible kernel... now all we need is for linux to operate in 64k of ram (i think).
have you tested this or have any clues if this will work on a NEC mobile pro 770 and 800?(vr4111 and 4121) they have a removeable rom chip. This is definately a good thing (tm) for linux.
Remember?
rooooar
since BSD is dying
This is the stupidest thing I've seen in a long time. *BSD has been growing for years and continues to grow today. There might not be as many seats installed as Linux, but that doesn't make it dying.
The iBook has a feature called "Save and shut down," or something to that effect, where the ram is saved as a file at the time of shutdown and thus can be started instantly in the exact state it was shut down. At least, that's how it's supposed to work. Since the iBook isn't shipping yet, who knows.
rooooar
You might want to check out my pdamips page for a complete list of MIPS based pdas. Please send me updates if I'm wrong about that :-)
Re: Linux on the Aero, you may have problems getting enough technical data from Compaq to actually do this. It uses the slower 70MHz R3900 based MIPS processors (although I'm not sure if it uses the Phillips one, or the Toshiba one).
Finally, this is booting Linux to a standalone shell. Much more work is needed before this will be useful. NetBSD/hpcmips allows one to login to the machine over the network! However, to the best of my knowledge, it doesn't have an X server or similar beast running on it at this time.
Enjoy!
Ever heard of the /. effect?
That's why it's slow!
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MAE LING MAK NAKED AND PETRIFIED
I, like most other readers of Slashdot, love cool shit. I love keeping up with the latest Linux port to ungodly small devices. This kinda stuff takes ingenuity, lotsa smarts, and is a testament to the flexability of Linux. But, please, this Beowulf fixation MUST go. Beowulf clusters are number crunchers for high intensity processing apps, not for retiring a crop of 386's, not for small devices, etc. Now if I had 500 Alphas gathering dust in my closet and was a little backlogged in my atomic research Beowulf would intrest me, but thats not happening. Please, somebody agree with me?
As for those who are wondering, MIPS isn't our only target platform. There are efforts currently in the works to get Linux ported to SH3 Handhelds, as well as StrongArm. (Nobody knows the progress here.)
If you feel you can contribute, by all means, join in on the mailing list at linuxce.org.
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
Why not the Apple Newton 2100? That beast has a 162 MHz StrongARM CPU (optimized for "MIPS per milli-ampere" to begin with), 8MB of RAM, and a 4-bit greyscale touch screen, plus optional keyboard, and two PCMCIA slots.
Sure, it's orphaned, but it'd be a kick-ass system...
Well since we're talking small. How about a HP48GX(128K) with a 1MB ram card(at least). And maybe have the os put on a rom card
on a Nintendo 64 too. Hmm maybe a server farm of haldhelds?
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
WinCE devices are not selling very well right now, dispite having hardware that is arguably better than that of a Palm Pilot. ...
.. I agree .. with Linux running on such a thing .. I'd go for one of these babies ... for the moment, I'd even be happy enough with a command shell on the display
The hardware HAS to be better than the PalmPilot, considering the size of the applications running on it
Ever seen a Palm with 8 MB ROM AND 8 MB RAM ?
But
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Ignorance is no excuse
I have a genuine Compaq Aero 4/33C, fully expanded with a 240MB HDD and 12MB of RAM. A colour screen, too. It runs 2.2.2 with ext2fs-compr fine.
Now if it wasn't for the fact that the serial number starts with 1992, and the thing's so old that @#!% Compaq has even recycled the name, you would have no problems.
That, and X-windows over a 115.2Kbit null modem cable is slow.
Pretend that something especially witty is here. Thanks.
ok linux gurus - how does this compare to the current state of the project to get linux working on a Psion 5 (http://www.calcaria.net/)? They've had a kernal running for a few months now. With the new Psion netBook (StrongArm 190Mhz, 64mb RAM, colour screen) due any day now, this may be the best bet for an instant-on, ultra-portable, long battery life linux protable.
ok linux gurus - how does this compare to the current state of the project to get linux working on a Psion 5 (http://www.calcaria.net/)? They've had a kernal running for a few months now. With the new Psion netBook (StrongArm 190Mhz, 64mb RAM, colour screen) due any day now, this may be the best bet for an instant-on, ultra-portable, long battery life linux system.
Quite a few laptops do this, e.g. IBM Thinkpads and no doubt most other name brands. I think there's someone working on 'snapshot to disk' equivalent functionality for Linux, but I don't have a URL.
I mean somewhere on the lines of what i gather to be the system memory use of TIOS, which is roughly 64k (?). But the TI-89 has about 1.2 Mb of flash rom into which it can write the TIOS for updates. Anyone with REALLY detailed information, please correct me if I am wrong.
I dunno. I just got the 89 (after using the 82 for a year), and it's so nice having so much ram/archive space for stuff. Someone needs to make a perl/Python/TCL/Tk version for this thing!
(btw, i looked at the hp48gx. I don't know. I think the TI is eaiser, yet no less powerful. maybe that's just because i have used them for so long...)
It's about as big as my laptop, these things fit in your pocket easily.
Why? Because we can.
right on. why do you think we have computers in the first place? because we can. wasn't someone once quoted as saying that "there is a worldwide need for about 5 computers"? I can't remember who it was, but I know someone famous said that, long ago when computers first started out, and.. well, now, that wouldn't make much of a beowulf cluster to begin with.
why do you think anything's done? because it can be done, and so someone's going to do it. (or someones.. or something.. or..)
but you get my point
Insert mind here.