Slashdot Mirror
Extreme medicine: Head Transplants
Ry Jones writes "The Sunday Times is reporting that people like Bill Gates and Christopher Reed will soon be able to get head transplants. " Interesting idea, and as the article points out, it's been a goal for transplant science for the past couple decades. I'd like to have my head meet Arnold's body.
So what will become of humanity if we're all able to transplant our heads? Oh, sure, the rich will be the ones who'll benefit? at first but the costs to do such will, according to the economies of scale, decrease. And then we'll be implanting ourselves w/ all sorts of electro-mechanical devices like the Borg. That is, if the fundamentalists don't firebomb all the research labs when they hear about these transplants. I also remember that Steven Hawkins(sp?) had talked about Homo-Superior during a lecture. I wouldn't be surprised if he was one of the first candidates for a transplant.
Bill Gates' body with Steve Case's head! AGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!!!
OK, I'm thinking that it's Gates and can't really understand why Clinton wouldn't already have a human head. Sorry
Hawking has already had his head transplanted. Check this link: Hawking
ac
Hmm, I wonder how long a brain can work as well as it should ... ?
Head transplants have been done on monkeys. It will be easier to do humans because all the parts are bigger and easier to manipulate. The body will come from recently brain dead folks. The same place other organs come from today. You'll still be paralyzed since we can't re-grow nerve tissue. So you probably don't want a body transplant unless you are already paralyzed and all your organs are failing. I read all this in a recent Science. Or was is Scientific American. I don't remember which it is.
this is the anon that started this thread, I think that's an interesting question, I would think that unless there is a genetic defect or some trauma probably at least two lifetimes. One thing that might be possible is at the same time the transplant is being done, to graft on a layer of young, healthy brain cells to the older brain. The brain grows smaller as we age, so the introduction of new brain cells could possibly have regenerative effect. It has been said that the brains of young children are very plastic as a result of the properties of young neurons. Up until a certain age, neurons have an ability to grow with response to use, which is one of the hypothesis used to explain why children that start in music, science or some other area at a young age tend to have an easier time. Perhaps this introduction of new neurons would have this effect on older brains. Although there may be a penalty of some personality change, and there would always be the question, would you really be you afterwards? The other option would be electronic augmentation, add electronic implants to aid brain function. As brain cells die you could gradually replace them with microscopically size neural networks that will cooperate with your brain cells and help replace there lost functions, after a few eons of doing this, eventually your brain would be solid state, hmm..., maybe you could run Redhat 600,142.00 on it. Ok, I really need to lay off the drugs..
Then again, what OS doesn't.. hmm...
Check out the impressive results here!
That's healthy market economy, sonny.
Oh my god! A thread that doesn't start with FIRST! That's the biggest improvement in weeks. I guess the kiddie had the old IP hardwired into his script.
Unfortunately, there will only be enough computing power to sustain one hologram per ship :-)
Disconnected from the body for up to an hour with no ill effect, eh?
Boy, I'd just love to remain conscious during THAT procedure.
Hmm, what is that piece of DNA that is eerily analogous to the Thread of Fate for a cell, that limits how many times it can divide before that "thread" just dies off?
IF a practical way to manipulate this counter cannot be found, and it's either tumor-mode (counter ignored) or normal-mode for cells, then it doesn't matter. Eventually entropy will catch up with your body...
Uhm... How many bodies from car crashes would be suitable? You want someone who is braindead, but with a fully functional body... Not someone who is maimed and battered to pieces.
Harvest the old body for organs!
But nanotech.... (I'll put on my asbestos suit now :-) .. could be used to deposit more stuff on the ends of the DNA strands, and error check the strands as well, and fix any other problems as well :-)
Well, quite frankly, this head transplant stuff gives me the creeps. Let's talk about someone who has a head FIRMLY attached to her body, where it will be staying: Mae Ling Mak. I would enjoy turning her to stone. Because statues are a lot less icky than animate people. "Real" people are VERY icky: they're full of bile & mucous & excratory stuff and all that... but stone is pure & clean. This talk of head transplants is yet more proof of the ickyness of humans. If it were in my power, Mae Ling Mak would become a statue. Whilst nude, by the way. Because statues wearing clothing look silly. I would ask her to remove her clothing, then I would petrify her, and then keep her for the rest of my life. I would talk to her, and watch TV with her, and all that fun stuff.... and all that FUN stuff, nudge nudge. She'd be my happy statue friend. It would be SO great. Know what I mean? Her buttocks would be stone as well, and of course, naked. I would touch her buttocks. It would be TONS of FUN. Everyone would be jealous of my petrified Mae Ling Mak. But I'd say "Don't fret, just go out, find a cute girl, and turn her to stone! Then you'll have your own pretty little statue friend!" That's the way it is, and the way it goes, friends. Be well. And remember: MAE LING MAK, PETRIFIED AND NUDE!!
HHOS? It will at the very least support a black market industry in murder for spares. Seriously. If there's a shortage, the price for a nice fresh headless, no questions asked, will be astronomical. Of course, if we were researching cloning technology, people could have spare and completely compatible bodies in storage for emergencies, but we're not, because it's 'Ethically Dangerous'. Which suppression of science for political and religious reasons isn't, of course. Feh.
It is aparently pretty messed up from too much drugs/doping. Remember his recent hart operation?
Think about this. A hologram of the person and the person are not the same thing. This is the thing that the anti-cloning folks do not understand.
A clone of the person is not the same person. Even if you could replicate the experiences they are not the same person. The clone and the person will experience life differently. This is very similar to the chaos effect. It will be slightly first, but then massivily later.
The only way a person can extend their life is to "transplant" the head to another entity. This could be biological or mechanical, it does not matter. BTW for those folks that are wondering. I am not talking about the soul. Since I am very skeptical about religion.
They shouldn't be "putting dogs" these dogs. I'll take one. Even better would be a dog with a monkey head.
The real holy grail is to get rid of the meat machine. Immortality through download to hardware.
Chemically, the brain can last around 300 years. Unfortunately, I don't have the source of this info handy. You're just going to have to take my word for it!
of course assuming you still smoke and get lung cancer, that cancer could have spread to your brain and that head transplant will be useless. I'm also sure there will be at least one doctor who will botch up atransplant on purpose when he find someone with the aforementioned qualities
.VXDs are for DOS leagacy drivers only duh.
Do you have to bring up Microsoft and Gates on EVERY article?
of bill gates or microsoft for just a second?
You're all as bad as ellison.
especially if its quariplegics getting the new bodies. I don't know many millionaires who would be willing to shell out that kinda cash to have a broken body. Unless they planned to sue places for not having ramps or lifts.
No longer science fiction. Now its is social commentary. But it's still a hilarious movie!
I think Rimmer would disagree with you on this one.
Yahoo, I really could use a new head.
Even with perfect health, the average lifespan would be about 2000 years due to the accident rate.
"weak human body"? Do you have any idea how much shit your body goes through in the course of your life?
If the costs of this operation get to be less than life insurance payments, will the insurance companies pay for the transplant?
M
Isn't this like the running gag on Futurama (FOX, 8:30 PM Sundays) where in the future, all celebrities are just heads incased in water (since only they could afford it, I guess). Just my 0.02.
Stuff connecting your head to another body, Just hook up a blood supply, wire whats left of your spinal cord to eletrical sensors, use bio-feedback to train yourself to control nerve impulses to those sensors, which in turn control output devices (mouse, keyboard, head holding robot, etc.), and your set. You'd probably kick ass in quake, cos your using brain-computer connection, instead of brain-hand-mouse-computer.
Ok, so someone gets their head screwed on a new body. What have they left behind? Hey, a whole bunch of organs! Maybe not as good as the doa from above, but probably good enough to keep the other two going until they get their own new body? Obviously not going to work in every case, but it wouldn't be a total waste.
There was a recent experiment that proved that the adult brain can grow new cells after all. It turns out that the earlier evidence that it couldn't was actually not that strong, but nobody could prove otherwise. I don't have the source for the new experiment unfortunately, it was in one of the popular science-type magazines. It was generally recognized as being pretty conclusive, though.
A lot of progress is being made on reattaching the spinal cord. Probably will happen within the next ten years.
I mean, think about it. For your head to be transplanted to another body, that body has to lose its head. For you to live, someone else has to die. Preferrably someone in the prime of life! I suppose rich people don't care about such issues, though.
The donors would likely be people that are in comas for extended periods of time and are about to be brought off life support. There is a limited number of such people, but there will be even fewer families willing to give up their loved one's body to a rich bastard that wants to be immortal.
this! Aaaah, the smell of Red Meat in the morning!
Or do you mean Christopher Reeves...buncha geniuses here...
Soilent Green is made from People!
Good point - how do you determine age? Is it the age of the body, or the age of the mind? If you had your head transplanted onto a 12 year old body, could you get a liscense? Would you have to go to school? Hmmm...
Hey, man, why the hell don't they make motorcycle helmets mandatory? Well, they all knew this was coming. They didn't want people to get used to being safer. No, we can't have that.
Why else would they call them DONORcycles in the emergency wards?
No, there isn't really a conspiracy. Just normal people willing to take a chance with their lives to let the wind blow through their hair. I do it myself now and then.
Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "I think I'll go out and get a little head."
The brain cell deterioration problem could probably be overcome though. I imagine creating new brain cells cloned from the originals wouldn't be that difficult (relatively speaking) Also if you could find some way to make the glial cells immortal (telomerase?), that might at least slow down the decline by better protecting the neurons.
If somebody has found a way to transplant nerve endings enough for this kind of xplant, they can also cure nearly 100% of all blindness and paralysis. In fact the two medical breakthroughs that would make the most difference would be that (reattach nerve endings reliably) and some way to deal with viruses (to take care of those incurable infections) Cancer is way further down the wish list actually, but generally considered to be a better target. IOW, we might be able to come up with a cure for cancer, but fighting viruses and dealing with nerve damage are not even targets yet.
I just want to see what's going to happen next. All the stuff I read about "within the next hundred years", well, dammit, I'm not gonna be here for that! I want to see it happen! Even if I can't move, voice recognition software is getting better, and it's only a matter of time before implants are built to relay commands from the brain to your appendages. Look at the stuff they're doing for people with artificial limbs now! They've built artificial hands! Even if you would be paralyzed for a few years, eventually technology will reach the point where it can either "repair the damage" or build a new body somehow. All you gotta do is wait and see. :)
Right now, I don't know of any headless bodies, but then again, nobody has had their head transplanted yet. So maybe the next step is to clone headless human bodies, or just grow separate organs and mix and match what you want to have and plant your head onto the resulting body. It would be nice to have this as a choice for people who had the money and wanted to do it. I'm sure one day it will be affordable to anybody who wants to it done.
omot lotek
http://www.lotek.org/
so there will be this old wrinkly head on top of a twenty somethings body. kinda funny image. other things to think about are: hair color: i have brown hair. it would look funny to have red chest hair...eww skin tone: i dont think my white skin would blend well on a black body. (no racism intended) build: hehe my grandma's head on goldbergs body.
Sounds like a good idea. People could also trade their eggs/bodies/etc with other people, maybe people they'd like to be in a second lifetime. You could bid on them on ebay.
It may seem like a strange creepy idea in this day and age.. but maybe someday it will be the norm. Most surgery seems creepy anyways.
Ack. I'd be too scared to run life-processes on a Microsoft operating system. I am fairly satisfied with at least the stability of my current brain os with an uptime of many many years. However, I would like to learn more about how it works so that GCC could be ported to it.. then we could just emulate other os's using the spare clock cycles we waste when we're bored. Of course, I think transplanting brains from one body to another will help with our current understanding of this organ.
omot lotek
www.lotek.org
immortality is not continuous life in one body. this is because -> you are not your body. you are already immortal. you slip off you body like a set of clothes when you die, and enter a gestating new bodyform at conception.
i am an animal and a human.
a member of two worlds i am, and leads
the other--weaving--into and out of glory.
i am storm, and i am star; yet here
i stand above me, and tiller the rudder
through what greats me in life.
it is i am that decides; and loses it
with disuse, when i do not follow it.
johnrpenner@earthlink.net
Hey, it seems like the cool application would be to cut off someone's head and install it as the CPU of a space probe. Presumably, nerve attachments could be made to the head such that commands to a more traditional control/navigation computer could be made.
More importantly, don't you think there might be some genetic issues with doing a transplant of any kind with someone who is vastly genetically different?
Without any authority in the matter, I'd guess that the procedure would be even more difficult than finding a genetically similar bone marrow donor, for instance, especially if you had been born in a totally different area of the world.
Additionally, puberty was rough enough for me. I don't want to start all over getting used to massive changes in my body...*smirk*
Tom
Story brought to mind a Gil the ARM story by Larry Niven. Anybody remember the 'Anubis' story? organlegger kidnapped a billionare and his twin sister, hooked her to wireheading and brain-transplanted himself to the unfortunate man.... Looks like we're easing into the Niven future, in which Organ Banks might in time be used to extend life....with all the accompanying legal and ethical challenges....
Yeah I read that too. Excellent book :)
So we pick Dennis' eyes off the rung and replace Sally's blind eyes with ones that have holes in 'em like olives? Yeah, great trade, that.
> (Of course, I don't ride motorcycles, so I wouldn't know...) That's right..you wouldn't.. You have eyes in the back of your head?
I've seen plenty of head transplants on alt.binaries.pictures.erotica. The technology was honed to perfection on Jonathan Frakes and Marina Sirtis...
Repeal the motorcyle helmet laws. Motorcyclists love riding helmetless, and there'll be plenty of crushed skulls and intact bodies for everyone!
Remember boys and girls, we still can't connect nerves together all that well (if at all) so no matter what you'de be quadrapalegic until that problem is resolved. Stated it in the article.
Fump
Read That Hideous Strength by C.S Lewis.
All I have to say is I get Britany Spears body... and can I keep the face... I just want my brain in her body... think about it man... I'd never leave the house.... Give me a mirrored room and I'm fine...
Yeah. The song is called "The Choke".
Maybe in the future, when they can keep just heads alive I can clone myself a bunch of times and make a beowulf cluster out of the heads!
After all, something like that is required in every story right?
11) Old news! This has been around for years. I used to do this kind of thing to animals in my back yard, until the ASPCA came... They took my only Rhinocerophant.
Hey but if it's cold outside, and there's no kind of atmosphere....it may work......;]
I mean, think about it. For your head to be transplanted to another body, that body has to lose its head. For you to live, someone else has to die. Preferrably someone in the prime of life!
I suppose rich people don't care about such issues, though.
I know it's pendantic but
heart transplant -> replacement heart
head transplant -> replacement head
Or is it a case of
heart trans. -> heart moves to another body
head trans. -> head moves to another body.
The more I think about it the more confused I get.
Just a simple A.C.
Lets convince Bill to have a *human* head transplanted onto his body! He might enjoy the change!
Just letting Bill Gates know that i've been doing this sort of thing for YEARS now. So if he wants a new head, i'm willing to cut him a deal. Say, $500 million for a near perfect Photoshop head job - most people don't even notice the lack of a 3rd dimension! Also, I will donate his current head to a good cause (eg, local bowling alley) Tom
I wonder what ramifications this has for replacing the weak human body with a machine. I can't wait to have integrated web access and a C compiler in my chest. Windows CE for humans maybe?
Hey, why not, after you get to a certain age, just clone your own body, maybe it could be genetically reengineered to remove certain defects like arthritis and diabetes from the DNA and then grow a new body sans head/brain. Then you could just attach your head to the genetically identical body and not have to worry about rejection.
Well, enough, but I'm not a medical scientist. Can someone explain how one evaluates the mental acuity of a paralyzed monkey???
Also, apparently it's inhumane to allow a monkey to live like this, but it's great for people!
My Freakin Blog
The only problem is that you'd have to have some lee-time, say about 21 years (you want to be able to drink, right?) before you could move in and your head would start looking *really* old after a while.
----
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
You forgot: 7) Yeah, but the real question is, will this operation make my head run Linux? and, of course: 8) F1RsT P05T D00D!!!!!!
10) Just imagine how many MP3s you could store in all those brains....
Hmm... you could get a different song stuck in each head...
_You_ forgot
8) If I get a bunch of heads and stick them all over my body can I turn myself into a Beowulf cl... *WHACK* ow! *WHACK* hey! *WHACK* eek!
Better yet, one that was actually MST3Ked!
*grumble* and you had me looking up book-ographies to remind myself of the title ;)
Even if it becomes cheap and you can reconnect the nerve tissue so you aren't parylysed, there will be a problem:
not enough bodies.
Because
1) not that many people die w/ their body in a perfectly healthy state, those that do would also have had to agree to be used, and would have to be rushed to storage fast. There would be hardly any that would meet all the requirements.
2) If it becomes cheap enough, there will be lots of competition for a few bodies, and there could be a black market.
So, we need artificial bodies.
Actually what we really need is nanotech that will keep you healthy forever like in "The First Immortal" by James Halperin, but that's another story.
--
"RICH PEOPLE WHO WANT HEAD TRANSPLANT'S SUCK!"
(arrow on chest pointing upwards) "DO NOT REMOVE!"
"The number of suckers born each minute doubles every 18 months."
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
HELP! I'm on BACKWARDS!
"The number of suckers born each minute doubles every 18 months."
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
a life of quiet dignity
"The number of suckers born each minute doubles every 18 months."
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Right, it's sort of like taking the driver out of one car, and putting him in the other car, but there's vaseline all over the steering wheel. . .
(ok. I need some lunch, blood sugar getting low)
"The number of suckers born each minute doubles every 18 months."
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
what are they going to do with his old head? I'd kinda like to kick it around a while.
You're thinking of Telomerase, and the number of times a cell can divide is called the "Hayflick Limit." Nanotech is the horse I'm betting on for immortality. Throne of Skulls here I come!
--Conquering the Earth Since 1978.
Maybe it's because Bill Gates is not a person (he's really the Devil...but don't tell anybody) and nobody knows who Christopher Reed is (it's supposed to be Christopher Reeves). However, I can't connect either (Connection refulsed). Here are the last few entries of my traceroute (not that I really know what's going on) :)
e t (62.172.12.48) 314.523 ms 313.108 ms 309.45 ms
10 linx-l0.ukcore.bt.net (195.66.224.10) 307.411 ms 299.245 ms 313.913 ms
11 access2-telehouse.telehouse.bt.net (194.74.16.41) 335.709 ms 316.711 ms 319.043 ms
12 M007501-News-International.access2.telehouse.bt.n
13 143.252.80.112 (143.252.80.112) 355.574 ms 1203.01 ms 1962.31 ms
<tim><
to have such a fine new head.
Has anyone read the article indeed?
:)
First of all, after the transplant, the person will be paralysed from the neck down, due to the fact that the nerves can't be reconnected. This means it will only be useful for people that are already paralysed. It will only prolong their life-span, but they remain paralysed.
Second of all, nobody has to be killed in order to find a body. Normal transplants happen every day using organs from people who died. Why is this so different? If they only take the heart or the whole body? You're dead anyway
Kind regards,
Mark Wormgoor
A) Does anyone have any other source for this claim? Is this what it claims or just hype?
B) If it is true that we could easily move a head this well and given the fact that we can clean blood using dialysis machines, oxygenate it and maybe even add nutrients how much more difficult would it be to keep a head on artificial life support?
Marriage is the "pseudo-ethics" that cloaks the messy truth of sexuality in the raiment of propriety -- it's "Don't Ask,
When Bill G. gets a head transplant, what part do they throw away?
I still think it's somewhat of a creepy idea...
Today's English Lesson: Oxymorons
Sanity.html - Error 404 not found
...and say "doctah"...
**>>BELCH
"A man went to a party where he was offered something to drink by a cute girl. The drink was spiked with some pretty heavy drugs. When he woke up, he was in a bathtub full of ice and his HEAD was gone! He had the words 'you're screwed, sucker' written in lipstick on his chest! This is very dangerous, there's a big black market for heads, my husband is a firefighter and he sees this happening all the time!! Send this message on to all your friends!" blah blah blah.
better heads than kidneys, I say.
The question has already been raised here of "where would we get the bodies"? We need to keep in mind how existing transplants (of which there is already a parts shortage) work.
1: Joe Dyingman has a bad heart. Sally Dyingwoman is going blind. And Bobby Dyingyouth has a failing liver. They lie in a hospital, close to death, blindness, and general Bad Things.
Meanwhile, Dennis Drunkdriver careens through the night, soused to the gills. Suddenly, Dennis loses control (big surprise) and hits the convenient telephone pole. Because he was in his hot new convertible and strapped int his seat, his body is not injured severely. However, Dennis' head is neatly skewered on the lineman's step sticking out of the pole (I know they're not that far down, but work with me here). Dennis' brain is turned into mush. The paramedics arrive almost instantly, but Dennis is brain-dead.
Since the rest of him is in good shape, and Dennis' drivers' license says he's an organ donor (as should we all), they race Dennis to the hospital, where he is determined to actually be brain-dead. At this point, a team of surgeons start working to remove the parts of Dennis that he doesn't need any more.
While this is happening, our three patients get "the word" that a donor has finally been found. They are rushed into surgery prep, and as Dennis' organs are removed, the organs are zipped away to each awaiting surgery, where they are placed into Joe, Sally, and Bobby. Three people have been given their lives (and in one case, their eyesight) back as the last act of a dying man.
So now we can but Dennis' whole body on one aging or paralyzed person, who will (at this point) remain paralyzed, but have healthier organs. No thanks. That is what I refer to as "a significant waste of resources". Maybe I'm selfish (or just cynical), but I'd rather save multiple people's lives with my body parts than give Christopher Reeve a slighly dumpy, thirtysomething new shell to live in.
- -Josh Turiel
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
Sorry, but a bad movie starring these two entered my mind (which itself could use a better body BTW).
Post if you got the reference.
Hint: The Simpsons' writers used it, with Homer and Mr. Burns (snicker)...
-----
".sig,
I want a new butt, this one has a crack in it.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
I heard something about this on NPR one day. I think it said that Einstein's brain is sitting in a tupperware dish in the trunk of someone's car.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
The Mind's I spends a story or two talking about the challenges that a brain/body transplant would cause. Well worth reading!
One problem is that the brain is wired to make your particular body work. It'd have no idea how to send the right sort of signals to another body. Life's a bitch when you can't get the heart to pump in co-ordination...
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
Isn't that a sample in a Skinny Puppy song? On Bites, or Remission I think... Always wondered where that came from.
2) Dood, wasn't this posted before?
3) Hemos spelled Christopher Reeve's name wrong. He should learn to write english blah blah blah...
4) The link doesn't work (oh wait, that one's been covered already)
5) This surgical technique should be Open Sourced, so that anyone can do it, not just millionaires. If we could all open up the patient's neck and fix any problems ourselves, and submit patches back to the patient, this process would be faster, and more stable. But by having a few "elite" surgeons working alone in a "clean O.R." we will all end up with bloated necks that don't even let us move the rest of our body.
6) [insert name of any old random unrelated thing] sucks.
There is no K5 cabal.
I am not the real rusty.
The body's immune system would reject the head, necessitating those unpleasant anti-rejection drugs. Immune system cells (like white blood cells) are produced in the bone marrow of large bones but not the skull.
Interestingly, there's been some recent work on transplanting bone marrow at the same time as an organ transplant to try to eliminate the need for those anti-rejection drugs. Results are promising, but still a ways from being completely sucessful.
the person will be paralysed from the neck down, due to the fact that the nerves can't be reconnecte
That's obviously ordinary voluntary motor muscles, but what about all the autonomous nervous system? Doesn't the heart, stomach, and other organs get their impulses from the brain? Or can the heart keep on ticking w/o nerve connection or the brain?
Anyway, the ultimate organ donor.
Fantasy: Just keep Gates head in a life support solution in a jar, w/ the support machine needing a reboot every three days, and it comes back JUST in time before the head snuffs, while a direct audio implant continuously reads: "this life support machine comes with no warrenty, express or implied, as to merchantability or suitability for any advertised purpose", Do not make illegal copies of this brain.
Chuck
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Isn't it a body transplant? I mean, I'll always be in my head not in my body, so what's new to me after the transplant is the body, not the head...
I have seen articles that suggest that motorcycle helmets may or may not be a major benefit in reducing overall death/injury rates, because although the helmet is great if you are in an accident, it also makes it more likely you will be in an accident, because of the greatly reduced vision and hearing you have with the helmet on.
(Of course, I don't ride motorcycles, so I wouldn't know...)
...he had developed a blood-cooling system that meant a living head could be disconnected from its blood supply for up to an hour without ill-effect.
Wow, now that would be one really wild head trip. It'd beat the heck out of any drug that makes you have an "out of body" experience.
"The voices in my head say crazy things"
Finally!! I've got a sick mind and don't want
to deprive my body from a good one!
Ok, people have mentioned cloning a headless body, but then the head, after being moved to the new body would look too old for it. Why not clone a body without a brain and spinal column, and then move just your brain and spinal cord to the new body, this way you will have your face matching the age of the cloned body.
Also, if you went bald in your old body, you could have your hair back for a while...
Actually it's "Reeve".
bp
Even though your head may get transplanted to a "healthy" body, your brain still continues dying as you get older. Granted this may make lifespans of 150 years possible, who would really want to live that long? Most elderly I've talked to and known would be happy to go at the ripe old age of 90. Another 60 years of only having a head with and no feeling in your body may be considered inhumane.
Sorry, the header should have read: Re:It still won't guarantee immortality
Arnold from "Happy Days"?
Here in the hall of heads
You look through the keyhole
This is the hall of heads
One step through the doorway
Roll out that special head
This is our favorite one
Please don't try to leave
Don't leave the hall of heads
Hide underneath the porch
Hide down behind the furnace
You can't run away
Your feet won't let you run
You can't get away
You can't really hide
Once you hear the call
The song of the hall of heads
You can't run away
Your feet won't help you run
You can't run away
Out of the hall of heads
(written by They Might Be Giants)
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
You'll need to find the jumper settings, first. They're located near the second and vertebrae, but the effect of flipping them can be reproduced through ingestion of massive amounts of coffee.
The head and body would of course reject each other, since they'd both see the other part as something alien.
--
Why just take the heart or lungs from a pig? Why not take the whole body? It would be so cool to see Bill's head on Babe the pig :-)
Ok, ok, some realism, please. How about Bill's head on a 800 pound gorilla?
Hemos, that is great butt, I would still like to be able to wipe my own ass. It is such a price to pay Arnold... -AP
I think I'm going to be sick.
Anyway I would prefer to see Bill Gate's head on a stick.
Oh wow. That blood-cooling system would probably let me overclock my brain!
Robert J White, an American neurosurgeon, said he had developed a blood-cooling system that meant a living head could be disconnected from its blood supply for up to an hour without ill-effect. forget head transplants. With this device, I might be able to make it through all the meetings my manager keeps scheduling.
--Shoeboy
Okay, what's the point? So the head lives longer. Since you can't regrow nerves (yet), it can't move.. I can't think of anyone who would WANT to go on longer given that:
a) you can't move
b) you're a freak
c) you probably stuck in the hospital for what's left of your life
---
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Sure, they have to find a fresh body without a head in order to perform the operation. I would not be surprised to see some surgeons suggesting that the airbags must be removed from all cars. That would provide them with an endless supply of bodies.
But what will they do with the old body once the head has been moved to the new one? Should it be buried (funeral, grave, and so on) or should it be dumped as waste?
Yummy!
-Raphaël
The alarm clock went off one morning, and none of my higher brain functions were functional. i somehow managed to turn off the alarm clock, and when i woke up again later it had fixed itself (:
-----
--
perl -e'$_=shift;die eval' '"$^X $0\047\$_=shift;die eval\047 \047$_\047"' at -e line 1.
NAME
SYNOPSIS WARNING and so on...-----
--
perl -e'$_=shift;die eval' '"$^X $0\047\$_=shift;die eval\047 \047$_\047"' at -e line 1.
When I was in high school and read Time Enough for Love (at least I think that was the correct title) by Heinlein, I thought "There's no way that this sort of thing could ever happen, but what if it did?" This Heinlein story is about an old, rich man with an active mind trapped in an inactive body. They basically transplanted not his head, but his brain and spinal column into the body of a mid-20s shapely secretary.
The book was an exploration by a dirty old man into the what-ifs of transsexual identity, and not a tretise on the future possibilities of immortality, but the issues raised are pertinant - would you only get a body of the same sex as your own? What if the only available body is of the opposite sex? Is a spinal cord transplatation feasible? If so, it would solve the nerve-attachment problem that would do away with the paralysm. But could you ever be sure of what was you and what was the body? In the book, the guy had the host body's personality riding around in his head, and he died in less than a year (I can't remember exactly what from, but probably a combination of rejection and other things). Is this really a long-term solution? The monkeys lived a week before they were put down. That's definately not a real test for length of life trials.
I don't know. I might prefer to see Futurama's Hall of Heads before we get (as my husband said) "the attack of the wheelchair bound killer decomposing head creatures." And most kids think it's bad enough to kiss their grandparents on the cheek. Imagine visiting your great-great grandmother - a 140 year old head on a 50 year old body. I just shudder to think about it.
If you put a man's head on a woman's body, which bathroom should he/she/it use?
If you robbed a bank and then got a new body, could they still throw you in jail? Couldn't you save your old body and have them jail it instead?
If your head ran Windows and your new body ran DR-DOS, would that make a rejection more likely?
Would a big ol' bolt through your neck become a sign of affluence, so that the not-quite-rich got fakes installed as a status symbol?
Could you get spare heads, like Kryten? Would they be hot-swappable?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Bruce Sterling did an interesting book, Holy Fire, ... and promptly took off, vanished from the world, and became a hedonistic drifter. Seems that :)
on a related subject a few years ago: an old wealthy woman got some sort of medical treatment which would rejuvenate her body to its early 20s
the rejuvenation also caused her body to get pumped with chemicals that her brain no longer knew how to cope with.
It's just a little funny to see a /. item about head transplants and Einstein's HEAD right next to it. How about THAT head transplant? Now if we could just find Marilyn Monroe's body...
I saw some of Dr. Whites early work on the Learning Channel. It was some special about the dangers of banning research.
In 1971 (not a typo) after the first full body transplant, a law was passed (US) that banned research into brain, head, and full body transplants.
One of the names mention who could benefit from a full body transplant was Stephen Hawking. His body is dying, his brain is not.
This show was on right after the UK banned cloning research a couple years ago. I don't remember the name.
"The last thing I want to do is deal with a bunch of people who want something."
Major Major
Of course with advances in transplantation techniques, it would not necessarily have to be a human body. After all there's already some experimentation going on with pigs hearths and other organs, so why not an entire pig body.
Quite a funny idea. I suddenly get these visions of these monty python like creatures (i'm refering to the opening sequence animations).
But even if only human bodies would be possible I don't mind. There's plenty of people dying of braindamage (for instance because of a car crash). While the head in those situation is not much use, the body can still be reused. I have no problem with this. In fact my body is available should such a thing ever happen to me.
Jilles
... you *all* forgot:
9) How much faster will I be able to play q3test?
You're forgetting Bill Gates and ass are in the same species, so it's already possible.
Let's assume you have a drug that lets the new brain and the spine connect up. The problem is, the subject will need lots of therapy to essentially rewire things. One thing might actually help - many learned reflexes are actually stored in the spine.
A friend of mine suffered a back injury and lost the ability to run. He could stand, sit, walk, amble, mosey, shuffle, etc. But he couldn't run - the nerves that handled the "running algorithm" had been damaged. He had to relearn running from scratch, in his late teens.
If the nerves could be reattached, and the new brain and spine could learn to agree on signaling (a big if), then less therapy might be needed than one would expect. Still, the subject would probably walk, sit, run, etc. remarkably like the "old" person did.
It'd be interesting to see what other reflexes might transfer across; I have this image of Bill Gate's head on an "exotic dancer's" body. It's not a good image.
PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
And then they say: "woops i have created a monster" i was not the monster it was dr. frankenstein who tried to live forever
And the nice thing is that the paper goes to bed before the U.S. does -- tomorrow's paper shows up at about 9pm Eastern time.
Jeff
And I've actually seen footage where they did a full head transplant on a poor chimp, kinda like the one on that damned tv show Friends. It was research footage from one of those weird University projects, like the one where the professor was in it just for the funding. Anyhow, in the end, the head transplant was very possible, with the problem that the technology to reattach spinal nerves really isn't up to par... ie, after such surgery, you're paralysed from the neck down.
There's an article? I thought the point of slashdot was a contest to see who can type "FIRST POST!!!" the fastest...
--------------------------
I would say "body transplant"...you don't get a new head; you get a new body.
0x or or snor perron?!
Ok stop the planet I want to get off...
This is the freakiest thing I have seen in a long time. I cannot believe that the article mentions Frankenstein at the end. Didn't we learn anything from Mary Shelley?
http://www.sunday-times.co.uk
I recommend you bookmark the above site - it is one of the most well informed british papers you can buy.
You have to register(free) with the site but you do have access to a weeks worth of news.
The Times is published during the week and The Sunday-Times is published on Sunday(Obviously!)
Here is the article in it's entirety:
A life on hold
Christopher Reeve has shown interest in the new transplant research
Head transplants give paralysed new hope
Jonathan Leake
Science Editor
A LEADING brain surgeon has unveiled plans to perform the first human head transplant. The operation, already carried out successfully on dogs and monkeys, would initially cost £800,000.
Among those who could benefit are quadriplegics with conditions similar to that of Christopher Reeve, the Superman actor paralysed after a fall from a horse. The operation may also appeal to rich people with terminal illnesses.
The technique for transplanting heads was proven in principle with small mammals in the early 1990s. However, it was abandoned when scientists realised that the extra time needed to reconnect larger human arteries and muscles would deprive the brain of oxygen and cause tissue damage.
Last week it was claimed that this obstacle has finally been overcome. Robert J White, an American neurosurgeon, said he had developed a blood-cooling system that meant a living head could be disconnected from its blood supply for up to an hour without ill-effect.
White and his team, based at Case Western Reserve University in Ohio, claim they have already practised the techniques on corpses retained for medical research at the American hospital where he works.
The White machine cools the brain from 37C to 10C. "This slows the metabolism and allows plenty of time to reconnect a head to its new body. All we are waiting for now is the money and the patients," White said last week.
White has carried out more than 10,000 brain operations on humans. His work on monkeys, which started over 20 years ago, culminated in the full head transplants.
The animals survived for more than a week with no impairment of mental faculties before they were put down, for humane reasons.
Head or brain transplants have long been seen as the holy grail for neurosurgery. In theory, they offer the nearest anyone could get to immortality.
In reality, however, White's technique would initially have a more limited application. Despite many recent advances, surgeons still cannot reconnect or regrow severed spinal nerves. This means that, like the monkeys, anyone who underwent a head transplant would be paralysed from the neck down.
It also means that the first candidates for such surgery would probably be people, like Reeve, who had already been paralysed. Quadriplegics often die prematurely from multiple organ failure. Transplanting their head to a new body could, however, give them the chance of a normal lifespan.
White believes that, although the idea might shock the able-bodied, many quadriplegics would welcome it. "It would be hard to deny them that chance through squeamishness when we are already transplanting lungs, hearts and livers," he said.
Most of the subsequent demand for head transplants would, however, almost certainly come from a group presenting far greater ethical problems - elderly or dying millionaires with enough money to pay for the operation and the years of aftercare.
The operational procedure, described by White in a paper published last week, would involve two teams of surgeons. Deep incisions would be made around the necks to expose the six major blood vessels and the spine. The next step would be to cool the head by connecting it to White's new cerebral perfusion machine. Initially this would carry blood from the original body but, as the operation progressed, a second set of tubes from the machine would be hooked up to blood vessels of the recipient body.
Then, taps would switch off the head's blood supply from the original body and replace it with blood from the new body.
At this point the head would be detached, by severing the spinal cord, and then attached to the new body. Such procedures could mean halting the blood supply but the brain's low temperature would minimise the risk of damage. Then the blood vessels, muscles and skin could be sewn together using standard surgical techniques.
Reeve, who has set up a foundation to promote research into the causes of paralysis and potential cures, is understood to have taken a close interest in White's research.
White refused to reveal his future clients but was confident many would come forward. He said: "The Frankenstein legend, where a human being is constructed by sewing parts together, will become a reality early in the 21st century."
He'd pay millions for a new one because if he didn't, it'd look like he was getting a piece of junk, and he wouldn't want that, would he? He's got to keep up the "good rep." (ha!)
Insert mind here.
I was just thinking this same idea.
Get a machine to reoxygenate the blood, another dialysis type machine to cleanse the blood, an intravenous feeding solution, heck, we're almost there now.
Then encase the whole gizmo in a large cylindrical body with wheels, and make the head hate all other living creatures, especialy doctors.
MIght make a good exterminator.
George
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The great thing about this and the development of cloning is that you can live like the doctor says you shouldn't.
For example, liver problems due to drink. We are a couple of years away form being able to get a liver transplant from a pig.
Or lung cancer due to working in a smoky restaurant? Again, transplant from a pig or other animal.
But this is best: just have a clone created of yourself and then have your head put on the clone. Sure, it'll look odd having the face of a seventy year old on a baby but it'll literally double your lifespan. And you can do it again. Why stop at doing it when your 70. Do it when you're thirty and always have a 17 year old version of yourself in the fridge for special occasions like hot dates!
Fountain of Eternal Youth anyone?
"Captain, I cannot believe my ears!" - Spock
I just thought that some of you might be interested in this story I saw on the BBC web site. Basicaly the guy who grew the ear on the back of the mouse some time ago has developed an artificial spinal cord using a "polymer mixture implanted with immature nerve cells." Using this method he was able to regrow spinal cords in mice that have had about an inch of the spinal cords totaly removed. If this technology proves to be effective in humans, there might just be another Superman sequal in the works...
Well, since this operation would require an ENTIRE healthy corpse this would be a huge waste. One corpse can provide parts for a dozen people in need. Liver, kidneys, eyes, lungs, heart. To take that one rare corpse and give the whole thing to one rich guy would be wrong. Not to mention the fact that the new body would start to go again just like the original paralysed body did.
So a Futurama world really isn't that far off.
"The Frankenstein legend, where a human being is constructed by sewing parts together, will become a reality early in the 21st century."
Why do I not feel as exuberant as this guy...
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Anyone remember that movie?
What they actually saved was the head.
They were going to transplant it.
It screamed from inside its bell jar.
There were lots of Seig Heil!! salutes.
This article made me queasy. They really could have saved Hitler's brain.
- Jojo
Isn't this the first step to the technology that the cryogenially frozen chose to freeze their heads for? I believe the story goes: I only need to freeze my head when I die because by the time they take me out of the freezer they will be able to clone my body from cells taken from my head and reconnect it. However, I think a good portion of these people would be pretty pissed off if you pulled em out of the freezer and hooked em up to a body that they had no control over from the neck down. And if it wasn't their own body they may not appreciate it either. This is good news for the people who supply freezing services. Some of these freezing services are paid for by family members who are still alive (usually as a term of the inheritence of the rich bastard who is in the fridge), others were paid for with "insurance" policies.. ie, while I'm alive I pay really large amounts of cash to someone who promises to lop off my head and stick it in the fridge until such time as they can thaw me and out and reconnect my head to a clone of my body. These contracts are very specific. They must be able to restore me to at least the state that I was when I was in good health during my life span. The freezer is betting that the day will never come that they will be unfrozen. These guys will be the ones to be thawed out last, when the technology is really cheap. The rich dudes who's grand kids are paying for him to be shoved in the ice box will be paying whatever it takes to get grandpop out because the particuarly large freezer that he wanted is costing a fortune to maintain. Anyways, I'm thinking about going out and getting a policy.. at least until I have a fortune to leave a long winded freeze-me-wake-me-up will over.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Here, in the West world, the people terribly fear to die, if you accept that you are nothing, die is natural, we not are a individual being, we are a society being, die is part of darwinism. Accept it.
But, i see the people of the first world countries coming to the third world one to choose a good body.
Mabye they detected slashdot posting and shut it off to us. Could happen.
I don't really mind double posts on
Has anyone here actually *read* the article?
---------------------------------------------
I don't really mind double posts on
Newscientist magazine recently carried an article about repairing damaged nerves. http://www.newscien tist.com/nsplus/insight/future/svendsen.html Common spinal injurys do a lot of damage but a clean knife cut could be fixable in the near future.
Meph
Hmmmmm, next time you hear someone talking about "getting a little head", be worried, very worried. Especially if you wear a size 7 hat.
If complications set in would the head reject the body, or would the body reject the head?
Which is the parasite and which is the host?
"Doctor, it's not the voices I hear in MY head, but the voices I hear in YOUR head that really frighten me."
What can I say about Matt Groening, besides the fact that he's a genious? Both the Simpsons and Futurama, right on.
Procrastinators, Unite Tomorrow!!
I didn't have any trouble accessing the Sunday Times page from here in the UK.
I've mirrored it if people are interested.
I have an even better idea. Forget about the other body. Why don't we just connect the head to a bunch of machines and put it in a jar. That way you won't even need work worry about a body at all. It could be attached to a little scooter and paralysed people would have the ability to scoot their heads around with brain waves.
People, their what's for dinner.
I have read this article and a I can say I was a little curious as to where the hell the spare bodys are coming from? I mean, a young guy wants a new body. O.K., I expect that the young guy wants a replacement *young body* so where the hell will the destination body come from. I mean if the destination body is O.K. why is it dead? And where the hell did the destinations body`s head go to? This subject is a little wierd. I mean Who`s going to have a doner card saying, if anything happens to me, transplant my body. If someones in a car crash, there won`t be much left to transplant.
There not exacly going to grow a body on the back of a mouse are they? But cloning comes to mind...
SmegHead.
:)
I wear pants.
How about we just take away Gates's head, and not give it back?
why not by-pass this whole messy technology, and develop the means to transfer a person into a holographic projection of their former selves?
Of course, to avoid any confusion as to who is real and who is a hologram, all the holograms must have a letter 'h' imprinted prominently on their foreheads.
Why is the universe here? -Well, where else would it be?
And just to add an extra touch of irony, Einstein's brain wasn't cremated along with the rest of his body. It's still lying around and pieces of get examined by scientists from time to time. Imagine if they had kept it together and frozen it. Once the technique was perfected, you could put it into a clone of Arnold's body. Maybe then we could get smarter action movies.
Does this
I like how the guy likens his technique to Frankenstein. Yeah, that'll get a lot of potential subjects to come forward.
If transplanting heads is possible within the species, I wonder if it's possible across species; like transplanting Bill Gates' head onto the body of a Jackass...
hell I am all for it! to bad the link doesn't work though.- --
----------------------------------------
Movie News - "Entertainment news, bitch!"
up here in the barren north
we've noticed stupid routing problems
to the sunday times servers for 2
months.
it's so messed up that even the
genius guys and gals at Shaw Fiberlink
(ie @home)cant sus it.
so no sunday times for like 2 months now.
try a traceroute and see where it dies for u,
assuming you've got the same problem ofcourse.
Here is another option for quadruplegics to consider:
http://www.theonion.com/onion3123 /hawkingexo.html