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New Psion Palmtop
Chris O'Byrne writes "Psion have
announced the Series 7 laptop computer.
It's sub-notebook sized, around $1,000 (though
only initially available in the U.K.), with 8.5
hours battery life, 640x480 colour LCD
touch-screen display,
instant-on, and all the usual
connectivity and other extras from a Psion
computer. The O.S. is
Symbian EPOC
32. Looks like an expanded and beefed-up
Series 5mx.
"
When I think of an upgrade from 'Series 5' to 'Series 7' I think of a major overhaul.Yes,the hardware is much better,but it's the same plain old EPOC32 OS with the same apps and the same tools,and the only new piece of SW (the Java VM) is already in the 5mx.
Symbian,please move faster.
Eight and a half is far more like it. You can't be truly mobile with under three hours charge.
-- Oh Well
OK....so Palmtops are getting bigger and more powerful.....Laptops are getting smaller and more streamlined.
So the palmtops are going to meet the laptops halfway? Then of course the more powerful (more useful) laptop (notebook... whatever) will render the palmtops obsolete....
If palmtops want to keep the market they must stay palm sized or get smaller....place the functionality of a palm into a watch...or a phone (hey....that's been done already)...or a pair of sunglasses (watch out for that lampost......!)
As technology inreases laptops will get smaller...no doubt about it.....Flash Rom cards willl increase in capacity, decrease in price.....win X on a flash rom card....now that should boot up quicker....
Flexible plastic screens......displays that link to your brain...you see it inside your head....spooky. How many colours does your imagination have. And does it check spelling?
I digress....
As the computer will be controlled by thoughts...and then relay the outcome back to the brain (bypassing those cumbersome things we call eyes) then all we will have is a rather silly looking baseball cap with electrodes and maybe a HUD for old times sake. Head tops......
Boy now it's getting silly......
who knows what may happen next....maybe we could use our brains for once.
I have a palm pilot...I use it to play chess...I'm a very disorganised person....far to disorganised to be bothered to use my palm pilot to organise myself. Only organised people use palm efficiently, that's why they're so organised.
Figures....think about it.
CU.
"Tell me your problems......I could do with a laugh!"
Interesting that they measured in mm. Trying to make it sound small I guess. For us yankee rebels that works out to about 9 1/4 by 7 1/2 by 1 1/4 inches. Not really that small to me.
I almost bought a S5 twice, but when I finally played with one I found that I had trouble seeing the screen due in high glare due to the touch screen overlay. Is the 5mx screen look any better?
I've considered making a switchmode powersupply to sit on a car battery. You need to know how many watthours your battery holds, then you simply divide by your powersupply wattage to get a rough figure.
-Yarn - Rio Karma: Excellent
You're absolutely right. The big problem with EPOC32 is the file formats.
d =34763
What this means is that, unless Psion actively supports connectivity with your desktop OS of choice, you're limited to transfering *text* files from the word processor - and that's it.
Even when Psion does support another OS, as it does the Mac, it does so half-heartedly. MacConnect, the connection software for EPOC32 and the Mac, doesn't translate at all - making it pretty useless.
It's a shame, as the Psion machines are really nice. I've seen the Series 7 and it's lovely - I'm almost tempted to buy one even though I can't connect it to either my Linux machine or my Mac (I'd have to use SoftWindows instead).
You can read a review I did of the Series 5mx from a Mac user's perspective at http://www.macuser.co.uk/guest/printreview.php3?i
With the hype and popularity of the winCE 'palmtops'(especially with the manufacturers) Psion needed to do something.
Why?
Over the past couple of years Psion have been attacked by their shareholders and the press to launch an equivalent device.
O.K. The WinCE may look 'cool' but personally I find them a wee bit pointless(I know of a few people who bought them, did not like them because the GUI was fiddly to use, sent them back and bought a Psion 5 instead - and never looked back.)
Aspects of the Psion machines in general are:
a) Physically better designed
b) The OS is more suited to this class of device
c) The applications have always been written for minimal screen space
d) Usable battery life
They had to come up with something or risk losing marketshare(happening already) and a diminishing reputation.
As with most companies, Psion to had to listen to their customers or lose them to rivals.
I personally own a Psion 3C and must say that it is excellant product to use (if only Linux would run on this thing!)
It will be released at the end of the month. That's not too far away, and this certainly can't be considered vapourware.
As for the MicroDrive, the S7 has a CFII slot - although the specs don't specifically say that it won't support the MD, the netBook ones do, and it's basically the same machine. I can't imagine that Psion would remove that functionality.
More specs: [ Series 7 ] [ netBook ].
Oops! Should have said "don't specifically say that it does support the MD"...
From: "Mark Shackman" Subject: Re: Abysmal Mac connectivity Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:00:38 +0100 Message-ID: Newsgroups: discussion.epoc.connect discussion.epoc.connect:287 NNTP-Posting-Host: dns1.symbian.com 194.129.1.100
Simon,
Symbian certainly doesn't think that "no-one who buys a Series 5 wants to plug it into a Mac or a Linux box."
However, in the short term, Symbian has other committments to meet, but in the longer term Mac and Linux support is under consideration.
Mark
I know that 4 is skipped because it's seen as unlucky is certain asian cultures. I don't know why 6 is skipped in both product lines.
I'm sorry, I was hasty to criticize; there was very little in the way of specs on the press release and I was going by other /.'ers comments.
The libretto (and any other notebook) has a "suspend" feature which generally takes well under 30 seconds to resume. This works fine under linux as well as windows. It also seems that if you want access to "corporate data" then Windows 95/98/NT would be the ideal solution.
If you can point me to more detailed specs on the Psion, I may find myself eating my words, but it seems that right now it's too big and too expensive to be a PDA and too wimpy to compete with the libretto.
-nosilA
If you didn't notice (and it doesn't seem like you did) EPOC was upgraded to v5 adding color, better mail sync, Java in June. Symbian is far out in the lead, and they're getting further ahead - check out http://developer.epocworld.com/News/news.htm - I count 15 releases of source, binaries updates and new functionality. Quit whining - and check your facts before posting
The 5mx apparently does have an improved screen on it. I've seen it on the site. They really did improve a lot with the 5mx in other areas besides that, too.
However, the Itsy did use a StrongARM processor also, from what I remember of reading the site. It used a 200Mhz one though, so doing any Itsy porting work would be a bit slower.
The Psion would be the perfect machine to port it to though because of two reasons:
1. OS in flash.
2. StrongARM processor.
The mere existence of an alternative OS for the device would be enough to get me to buy one, since then getting apps to work with it such as IRC, ssh, Telnet, ftp, and a decent web browser would be not hard to do.
...but not as good as the PalmIII or Palm V. I don't find I need to use the backlight so much, so that saves the batteries, some. It's still the best PDA with a keyboard, by far, IMHO.
Man, don't get me started on that. Considering the design talent of the Newton folks, one can only wonder where two more years of development would have yeilded. It wouldn't have been no iNewt either!
Just wondering where I could get a portable ATX power supply?
I am not much with wires, but simple wiring might also be an option.
And how long would a desktop run off of a motorcycle battery?
Series 7
netBook
Jon.
Until about 1990, Psion were a small company making hand-held data-entry machines. Their big break came with the Series 3. The 3 packs a lot of usability into a tiny package and is still selling well, due to a few minor upgrades over the years. My series 3 is used every day, does pretty much everything I want it to and lasts about 3 months on 2 AA batteries. Psion's newer machines (the 5 and now the 7) are larger, heavier and have comparatively short battery lives.
My series 3 lives in my pocket, it's always there and always ready when I need it. I couldn't do that with anything any bigger or heavier. I don't have to worry about it running low on batteries either. The 7 wouldn't fit in a pocket (at least not without the optional 'special trousers') and according to Psion's press release, would need recharging every day.
What (IMHO) Psion should be doing, is concentrating on the area in which they are strongest. That is, on a replacement for the now long-in-the-tooth series 3, with more power, maybe colour, maybe a JVM and definitely comms, decent PC connectivity and Epoch. All in a package as small as the 3 and with decent battery life (say a month for 2 AA cells).
The last machines that Psion produced that were the size of the 7 got great reviews and didn't sell. I hope that they have more luck with the 7 and the netbook, but I really think that they should be concentrating on their core area of excellence, which is producing brilliant pocket-sized palmtops.
HH
Yellow tigers crouched in jungles in her dark eyes.
She's just dressing, goodbye windows, tired starlings.
Linux on this little thing would rock ass. Does anyone know how usable the port is for the current Psion?
Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
Which I bought over two years ago.
I think they really should have come up with a brand new name for the '7 - it's targetted at a different market to the Series 3/Series 5 which came before it. From the pictures of it you can't easily tell that it's much bigger either - it's roughly the same shape.
I wouldn't say no to one if it were offered, of course, but until they come out with jeans with jumbo pockets this one's not for me.
See info on Intel's web site.. About time too - the current StrongARM hasn't been updated much in 3 years. The new one (to be produced on a 0.18micron fab) can run up to 600Mhz (while consuming just 0.45W), while in low power mode it consumes just 0.04W while running at 150Mhz.
Am I the only one that hates this form factor? Too small to be a desktop replacement, too big to carry descretely.
Give me a palm pilot or a laptop, anything in between is a waste.
Well, it runs the Symbian OS right now. The only remaining technical issue to be solved is to, uhm, replace 'Sym' with 'De'.
--Coke
This looks like a newton-sized device. Unless you're Joe Young, it probably won't fit in your palm. And yes; it does make a difference. Something that fits in a pocket can be with you, always, whenever you're awake. Something that fits in a fanny pack can be back at your desk... let me go check.
Preferential Voting: easy as 1-2-3
What I specifically want is a better word processor and spreadsheet - for programming and computing I have sizeable Suns and NT servers, but I need a machine I can take anywhere and work on documents with, the office is too distracting. This is one reason the S5 is so great, it has several times more battery life than any CE machine. Proper indexes, nested bullet lists, footnotes/endnotes, better font support, better table support, etc, would make this a perfect machine for me.
I don't think the market for such a device is very large. WinCE failed because you can get very powerful laptops at similar size and weight, just at a slightly higher price (just look at the latest sub-notebook offerings from Sony, Sharp, IBM), so I wonder if the Psion 7 will sell well at US$1000. I'd find one useful at half the price, but for $1000 I expect to have at least some disk storage (which would fit easily in that form factor).
"I love my job, but I hate talking to people like you" (Freddie Mercury)
Is this a bit of a first ? I've never had the privalidge of seeing a major new product being launched first in the United Kingdom before.
Brilliant, and about time too !
I wonder if this will run Linux 7k or is there a strongARM port of linux yet - 100MHz off a palmtop in linux - love to see the compile times on that, actually, love to see X run off that!
-- Do You Drive A Ford, Or Want To ? All Ford, All The Time - FordTalk
Check it out at http://www.calcaria.net/ Linux looks pretty good on it. I am actually thinking of buying a Psion 5, but I can't find a supplier. :-(
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
Psion announced their netBook for enterprise users a few weeks ago which has the EXACT size and weight dimensions as the Series 7. It's also running the same StrongARM processor as the Series 7 yet 90MHz faster. The netBook ships with 32MB while the Series 7 ships with 16MB.
....
Could this simply be a dumbed down netBook model? Hrmmmm
Even more useless PDA babble @ PDA Buzz
Looks great but am I the only one surprised to not see USB?
Docking station is interesting.
Portable computers? We don't need no stinkin' portables. Real Geeks just put the cases back on their dual-celery boxes and haul them around from place to place. Wusses! All of 'ya! ;)
--
Toshiba came out with a computer as powerful as this one, the same size, but with an 850MB hard drive and it runs linux beautifully!
The size is really nice for fitting into a backpack or if space is tight, and getting used to the keyboard doesn't take much time, but it's no replacement for a real PDA (battery life, suspend time) nor for a desktop (too small to type comfortably) and the psion doesn't even have PCMCIA or anything...
They were a bit more than $1k, but you can get the 75MHz (OCable to 120) on ebay for $500... and I'm selling mine if anyone is interested (I managed to get ahold of a Sparcbook)... They have new one, the Libretto 110 for $1600 with a 233MHz processor in them.
Sure the touch screen in this Psion is cute, but if they want to compete, they are going to have to bring down the price.
I sold my Newton to the CEO of our company three weeks before they stoped making them. Thankfully it's a good job market and I didn't get canned :-)
1) The newton was at 161 Mhz
2) The newton ran off of AA batteries, so if you ran outta juice, a powerup was a quik-e-mart away.
3) The newton had a keyboard optional (and you could touch type on it)
4) The newton had worse software support for linking to PC's.
5) The newton was B/W (that helps the power consumption)
>It also can run NetBSD and Linux from what I understand
I'm looking for such...but I have not found it yet.
There are alot of works in progress.
But no actual shippable prouct.
Caldrea - this is a proof of concept
Linux CE - vapor
NetBSD - a start
And who know who else.....
The regular Psion 5 is discontinued in favor of 5mx. But if you really want the Psion 5 and not the mx they have the refurbished Psion 5 that is about $80 cheaper I think
Wow! This new machine totally kicks Windows CE ass!!!
Too bad it hasn't been released yet. More Anti-MS FUD from slashdotters.
Oh yeah, and guess what. Microdrives dont work on it.
Oh I'm kidding :-)
If I could get a secure shell client for this and a wireless hook inside my house, I'd save myself the $2k-ish I need for an iBook and the Airport. I'm a bigger Psion fan than I am an Apple fan but what the heck, I'll use what works and is cheaper. If I wasn't so lazy, I'd pull ethernet through my house but obviously, I'm really lazy.
Fortunately that ego-maniacal tyrant Steve Jobs can't touch this baby! So it may be worth developing on...
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
...Who're copying BMW, or so the story goes. It's more classy, more continental to skip the even numbers. I tell you though, Continental Breakfast reflects poorly on the continent...
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
I like this device because:
1. It uses a better OS (EPOC32) than the other StrongARM equipped device, the HP Jornada 820 (which uses CE 2.x). The Jornada 820 runs at 190Mhz, while this runs at 100Mhz, and the Jornada 820 still seems slower!
2. It's coming from the most established company with the most established brand of palmtops worldwide, Psion.
3. The OS in it just kicks butt. Symbian really knows how to get speed and functionality out of the OS, unlike CE (which just shovels functionality in with no consequence for runtime).
4. It supports what I have found to be the most versatile and reliable modem, the Gold Card. Dell uses these in their Latitude laptops. They run about $250, but can support GSM, ISDN, US cellular standards, US phone networks, European phone networks, and is software-upgradable to any standard that it can't support. I'm willing to pay $250 for a good modem, and I've found this to be the best. Apparently, so does Dell. No WinCE winmodems is a good thing.
5. EPOC32 has a JVM, unlike the CE JVM that Symantec was working on that mysteriously went the way of their other CE Apps such as PcAnywhere and ACT!.
6. It's got more app support. This truly does have international support like the Palm does. There are a LOT more apps for EPOC than CE. It's the perfect form factor for someone who doesn't want to worry about notebook hard drives. It also can run NetBSD and Linux from what I understand, which just opens up a whole new world of apps.
7. Don't forget the IBM Microdrive. This works here too.
8. PCMCIA slot. This means you can combine this with EPOC32, NetBSD, or Linux and use many cool devices with this.
What advantage is there to buying one of these? The form factor is similar to a subnote, which are coming down to the $1000-$1200 price range, in the US. It's a lot like those CE POS's that cost $1200 and have less than half the functionality of a notebook. I don't see this thing succeeding (or the CE toys) until the price comes down to sub-$600. I wouldn't consider buying one until they reach that price point.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
We'll glide over the fact that EPOC/32 is a proprietary OS. There aren't really any free OS's in the palmtop field yet (unless you count ELKS), so I guess we'll have to let this slide. However, the real headache is the proprietary file formats. EPOC/32 stores data using some kind of object oriented stream store. The file formats are undocumented and Symbian's story is "use our SDK if you want to write apps that can read and write our files."
This wouldn't have been so bad if they'd provided file format translators as part of the OS -- but they didn't! Instead, translation between EPOC/32 file formats (such as Word and Sheet) is carried out inside the PsiWin link software, on a Windows box. In effect, the EPOC/32 system is turned into an obligate peripheral of a Windows machine because Psion didn't even provide rudimentary RTF or CSV file import/export capabilities for the built-in apps. (Which is a shame, because EPOC/32 is a much better OS than Windows ;-).
To add insult to injury, the SDK was based on the GNU toolchain but requires a copy of Microsoft Visual C++ to run on. (My guess is that somebody at Psion swallowed too much Microsoft marketing literature back in 1994 and truly believed that Windows was going to conquer the universe, or at least the desktop. As a result, Psion didn't give other platforms the attention they required.)
Furthermore, Psion blundered quite badly over developer relations back in 1995. For a long time the SDK was also a commercial product which you had to pay an annual license fee for. Symbian realised that this was stupid and made it available for download last June, but this misguided policy had held up the development of a large body of third-party apps by the hobbyist community (which was always a strong point of the SIBO/Series 3 devices). (The result of the change of policy is already becoming visible in the form of a sudden wave of new EPOC/32 software, including native Word->RTF file translators, and all the other stuff that should have been in the OS from the beginning. Like decent ports of vi, perl, and nethack ;-)
Anyway. I guess my beef with EPOC/32 is that it's a nice OS, let down by having been deployed as if it's a satellite of another platform, namely Windows. If they'd paid more attention to making the Series 5 a "real computer" in its own right with connectivity to peers running different OS's, it would have been a lot more useful.
For my part, I've come to terms with my Series 5MX and now find it absolutely invaluable, but I'm not really making full use of the built-in application suite because of the file conversion issues. Let this be a warning to you if you plan to buy one and, like me, live in a Windows-free zone!
Basically, Toshiba and Sony have already managed to squeeze "real" mini-notebooks with a hard drive into this same form factor.
The new Psion and the WinCE "Jupiter" class handhelds are in the same losing boat. They are about the same size as these mini-notebooks with much less speed and storage. Their only real advantage is that they have no moving parts and cost less (although that isn't quite so clear cut anymore). They'll probably get squeezed out by the mini-notebooks.
Does this