Thumb Keyboard For PalmPilot

translation by willhelm · 1999-10-22 03:53 · Score: 5

My awesome x-roommate is native Japanese. I just asked him to translate the specs to me:

- it covers the touch panel part with the keyboard
- it's 60mm X 22mm sheet. the sheet can be put on/taken off without any cable, or somekind of connection. all the typing will be taken are of by the associated software.
- you can have the touch panel on top of the keyboard if you need. (the picture is listed in the wed site. second picture from top.)
- a part of the keyboard is customizable.
- they started shipping in this Oct.
- it does not take extra battery. it's just a sheet sitting on top of the screen.
- it works for WorkPad, WorkPad c3, Palm III, Palm IIIx, Palm IIIe, Palm V for now. not sure if this works for Visor. i don't believe Visor will be out in Japan for a while...
- the current cost is 6800 yen + tax. pretty much $70...

/will

Re:translation by Anonymous Coward · 1999-10-22 20:41 · Score: 0

Here's a link (http://www.thinkmobile.com/Japan/ThumbType/Defaul t.asp) to a site that's got full information about it. Thinkmobile's got a column called "JapanWatch" which covers all kinds of neat things coming out in Japan that aren't yet available in the US. This week they've got a cool handheld scanner that's pretty fast and very versatile. Wish it was available here in the US. I think JapanWatch had this ThumbType article posted a full two weeks ago, and it even includes a little sound file so you can know how the product is pronounced in Japanese. Check it out. (For anyone interested in mobile technology, ThinkMobile's a neat site--I tried sending a news item, but so far it's never been posted on Slashdot. Not newsworthy enough? Or just competition...)

Wht's the point? by belroth · 1999-10-22 03:53 · Score: 1

I mean, graffiti isn't that hard to learn, and there are some alternates for characters.

It's still not as easy as a microwriter AgendA I had years ago, though.

That was very good, it's cool to touch-type one-handed with the machine in your pocket. I wish someone would resurrect the idea for a Psion or CE or something, I'd buy it just for that.

--
I hereby inform you that I have NOT been required to provide any decryption keys.

Re:Wht's the point? by dr · 1999-10-22 06:01 · Score: 1

I would say that the company is tapping a market of people who want to own a Palm but aren't willing (or can't be bothered) to learn a whole new way of writing.
I mean, graffiti isn't that hard to learn, and there are some alternates for characters.
I'm not entirely sure that is the case; the graffiti for the alphanumerics is quite easy, but everything else is much more complicated and not at all intuitive. And learning can't be frustrating also when the graffiti misinterprets your entry.
Personally, I like writing with the stylus and graffiti, but then again, I'm easily entertained; all I need is a beer and the giraffe game (which only lasts until my gf catches up with me)... :)

The point being...? by Enoch+Root · 1999-10-22 03:54 · Score: 1

What's the point of putting a keyboard over the graffiti area, if it's gonna punch the graffiti area in exactly the same way that your fingers would? If you'd win typing speed, I wouldn't see a problem, but they claim this thing is as fast as the normal graffiti operation, not faster.

What's this? Are we addicted to the gentle feel of a keyboard? A conspiracy theory to keep Carpal Tunnel Syndrome alive in the age of Palm Pilots? Or am I missing something? :)

"There is no surer way to ruin a good discussion than to contaminate it with the facts."

Re:The point being...? by ucblockhead · 1999-10-22 04:08 · Score: 1

The thing doesn't appear to use graffiti. It appears to use special software to translate taps in the graffiti area into characters. You'd need the device because no one could tap accurately enough on a keyboard overlay in that small an area.

Anyway, I'll be first in line, once I've seen through early adopters that it doesn't suck.

So, you guys go out and buy some, ok. :)

--
The cake is a pie
Re:The point being...? by Darchmare · 1999-10-22 04:24 · Score: 1

>Anyway, I'll be first in line, once I've seen
>through early adopters that it doesn't suck.

Quite a paradox you've backed yourself into there, it seems. Care to explain how you'd manage this?

:>

- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net

--

- Jeff
Re:The point being...? by Bearpaw · 1999-10-22 04:39 · Score: 2

If you'd win typing speed, I wouldn't see a problem, but they claim this thing is as fast as the normal graffiti operation, not faster.
That was my first thought, but CmdrTaco seems to have misstated that part. They claim that "with practice, the tiny keyboard is faster than handwriting using Graffiti."
For people interested in speeding up their Palm entry, there's a hack to use the Twiddler here.
Re:The point being...? by ucblockhead · 1999-10-22 05:39 · Score: 1

I always try to do at least five impossible things before breakfast.

--
The cake is a pie

Replacement for Graffitti by Uller-RM · 1999-10-22 04:02 · Score: 1

Makes sense - personally all my friends Palms (I don't own one right now) I can't stand the input, although I'm told it's fast enough once you get to it. But, honestly, I'd rather have to learn a new input method than use a tiny tiny keyboard. And what about that researcher that found that Grafitti can cause physical problems in the hands similar to CTS or worse?

Re:Replacement for Graffitti by Anonymous Coward · 1999-10-22 04:18 · Score: 1

And what about that researcher that found that Grafitti can cause physical problems in the hands similar to CTS or worse?

I thought that was a joke...
Re:Replacement for Graffitti by Bearpaw · 1999-10-22 04:45 · Score: 3

And what about that researcher that found that Grafitti can cause physical problems in the hands similar to CTS or worse?
That was a joke. Lots of folks fell for it, though.
Re:Replacement for Graffitti by _Sprocket_ · 1999-10-22 05:04 · Score: 2

OK.. yea... that was a joke. Having said that, I find myself writing the occasional graffiti stroke when jotting something down quickly on a PostIt.
If anything, it probably reenforces the idea that I don't NEED sticky notes. I'm better off using my Palm. But then... there's those cool all-black PostIts with the white (or metalic, or dayglo, etc) gel pens. Those are cool....
Re:Replacement for Graffitti by BluBrick · 1999-10-22 05:58 · Score: 1

Well it may have been a joke, but I do find that scribbling with the dinky stylus (the one that came with my Palm Pro) quite uncomfortable. I really would like a stylus insert for my Rotring quattro. I know Rotring make a quattro/trio thingy that already has a stylus insert, but I can't find the stylus inserts by themselves.

And yes, I too have found the same thing with my handwriting. But it seems to be almost limited to PostIts, which is a little odd. I think it must have something to do with the fact that you tend to hold the block of notes in one hand and write with the other, just as you do with your Pilot.

--
Ahh - My eye!
The doctor said I'm not supposed to get Slashdot in it!

This Rocks by deadzilla · 1999-10-22 04:02 · Score: 1

In the past I used one of those Email pagers with the thumb keybourd, after a day you could type in the dark.

I would have to take two months of penmanship class for Graphiti to work for me.

I dunno by Negadecimal · 1999-10-22 04:05 · Score: 1

What's faster, touch-typing or Graffiti? I'd bet that it's the latter. The smaller the input device, the more focused you have to be to make precision inputs. Our coordination is pretty much a constant function of our muscle ranges. No matter how fast we type on full-sized keyboards, scaled-down versions will still have us searching for each key, even if we know how their layout (presumably QWERTY).

Besides, it'll just look strange -- kinda like Schroeder playing his toy piano. I'd rather see a wireless version of the Twiddler.

Re:I dunno by dark_monkey · 1999-10-22 09:27 · Score: 1

I learned to touchtype out of necessity all of six years ago. I've just switched from my old Pilot 5000 to a PalmV, which has a heavier stylus and makes what used to be really quick, accurate Graffiti on the 5K into a more cumbersome task.

I guess I'll just get used to it in time though.

--
"The most common element isn't hydrogen, it's stupidity."

hasn't anyone read the article? by Zhaus · 1999-10-22 04:19 · Score: 2

Hasn't anyone read the article? This is nothing new. They've answered all your objections already.

1. I can graffiti 1.2 parsecs. How fast can ThumbType[tm] possibly be?
ÄÌ®ÈÎÇäâ¼õ±ÉÕ±Æë£ËÆÊÊÅ

2. I dunno about it, I've grafitid [sic] for x years and I refuse to change my ways.
ÇÎÍÑìÆëÆÎÏÊý¼ÏGraffitiÈ¦¥¥ë¥Õ¥¥Ù¥Ã¥ÈÎúèÎìÉôòìÉ®½ ñ

3. What's the catch?
½ÎÂ¾Îñ¼ÒÌ¾À½ÉÊÌ¾èÓ¥¼¥Ó¥Ì¾ÅùÏÆ¼ÒÎ¾¦ÉÏÅÐÏ¾¦ÉÇ£

4. What if I just like saying the word 'stylus'?
Îè¦ÊÌäÂêÅÀòßÈËòèè¦ÈÎÎÖThumbType×Çë£

5. Palms/Microsoft/Linux/Sux/Rulz/1st/Troll/Hemos/Sux
¼¥Ü¼¥ÉòýÄÈÇÊ£½ÎáÊúòÆÎÏëáÎÊý¼ÈÆÊúÇ¼±ä

Re:hasn't anyone read the article? by wilkinsm · 1999-10-23 03:26 · Score: 1

Why are we encoding in EUC?

Isn't SJIS the preferred format these days?

- ¥¥¥±¥ë

If you don't like Grafitti by Kiwi · 1999-10-22 04:24 · Score: 4

If you don't like Grafitti, the Fitaly on-screen keyboard. is an excellent alternative. The learning curve is a bit steep, and it costs a whopping $25, but once you know how to use it, it is twice as fast as Grafitti.

- Sam

--

The secret to enjoying Slashdot is to realize that it should not be taken too seriously.

So in effect by jabber · 1999-10-22 04:24 · Score: 2

This thing (software) maps a virtual keyboard to the writing tablet, and you put an overlay film in place to tell you where the keys are. Then points of pressure on the tablet are interpreted as key presses. Hmmm...

Sounds an awful lot like the T9 text input option that my Nino came with. (I know it's dead, and I know it's WinCE. Gimme a break, I'm weak)

You know, it's long been my opinion that the writing tablet on the Pilots should be virtual, a'la WinCE. In fact, this single reason is why a chose the Nino. It buys a little extra screen space, and you can tweak your interface without carrying a bunch of little plastic overlays.

[rant]
In retrospect, a mistake. But a virtual writing space is a cool feature, and I'd pitch the WinCE PDA out the window tonight, if I could get a Pilot with it tomorrow.
[\rant]

--

-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.

Re:So in effect by orev · 1999-10-22 04:56 · Score: 3

On the surface, this seems like a good idea. But, if you think about it a little more, it's a really really bad idea.

Consider: Your device has a virtual input area. That area could presumably be controlled by the developer of the application you are using. They decide they need a little more screen space, and shrink it down, only, now you can't use your device for input, because you were used to the size and location it was at before. Do you really want to trust a developer with this important function? (face it, someone who knows how to make cool code usually doesn't realize that they don't know anything about interface design)

Ok, make it unchangeable by app developers, and only configurable in a control panel: You make your input area smaller, and the apps aren't written to take advantage of the extra space. Now you have wasted space. Make it bigger, and apps won't fit.

Basically, there is much to be said for having no control over something. If every developer changed your keyboard map to match their prefs, it would be a nightmare. This is a very similar issue.

The only reason I could see in creating a virtual input area is to be able to display information inside of it, like maybe a clock or the date, but, you must keep it the same size. Configurability creates confusion for most users, so you should keep configuration options down to a minimum.
Re:So in effect by Kris_J · 1999-10-22 06:33 · Score: 1

They decide they need a little more screen space, and shrink it down, only, now you can't use your device for input
There are plenty off apps that don't need data entry, or rarely need data entry. The Palm approach wastes a lot of realestate with the fixed writing section.
For something like a (WAP) browser, or another "low input" app, a standardised pop-up data entry window would probably be a great trade-off.
Re:So in effect by apirkle · 1999-10-22 06:44 · Score: 1

Configurability creates confusion for most users, so you should keep configuration options down to a minimum.

For most users...how many of us are just common users? Sure, Linux would confuse the heck out of someone who is computer illiterate, but a lot of us love the extra power over configuration. There's not really an obvious solution for a mass market device like the Palm, but remember that configuration options are just that -- options.

Touch Typing by Anonymous Coward · 1999-10-22 04:33 · Score: 0

It's been my experience that you have to be VERY precise with Graffiti or the characters get mangled beyond belief and you have to go back and fix them. Sometimes repeatedly. I can type much faster and much more precisely than I can Graffiti.

Voice recognition would be interesting...

Re:Touch Typing by miahrogers · 1999-10-22 05:52 · Score: 1

if you look in the newest linux journal there is an add for the happy hacking keyboard claiming that it now connects to palms-and it's cheaper than that other keyboard that was made for a palm.

matisse:~$ cat .sig

Another alternative: Quikwriting at MRL... by Anonymous Coward · 1999-10-22 04:50 · Score: 3

There's version 2.0 of the Quikwriting graffiti replacement. It uses HackMaster to allow you to use it with regular apps now. (Last time I checked it was just a single demo app.)

I haven't checked it out yet, but seeing these posts made me think of it.

- AC

has anyone seen the bigger keyboards? by Anonymous Coward · 1999-10-22 04:56 · Score: 2

i bought a go-type keyboard a few months ago and can input text into my pilot almost as fast as i can type on a regular keyboard. i say "almost as fast" because the go-type is a wee bit smaller than a standard keyboard, so i still have to adjust my typing. but i've heard about another keyboard that's going to be available soon from think outside that looks pretty cool too. this one has the added advantage of not wasting three times the space as your pilot like the go-type keyboard does. they also purport to have made the keyboard "full size". either way, using the keyboard i have beats the heck out of using graffiti, and certainly does a lot better than pecking out words with my thumbs.

Another one bites the dust by CokeBear · 1999-10-22 05:37 · Score: 0

Damn... this site has already been Slashdotted into oblivion! Anyone got a mirror?

--
Reality has a liberal bias

Re:Another one bites the dust by dark_monkey · 1999-10-22 09:37 · Score: 1

The Gadgeteer is meant to have some info on ThumbType as well, but it, too, has been /.'d ad infinitum.

I expect the latter'll be up & running before the former though.

--
"The most common element isn't hydrogen, it's stupidity."

Re:What's the point? by penguinicide · 1999-10-22 05:41 · Score: 1

Preference.

--

penguinicide... when jumping out a window just won't do.

does it work with write-right? by miahrogers · 1999-10-22 05:57 · Score: 1

I have on of those write-right screen overlays that makes the palm screen seem more like paper-and it also prevents it from getting nasty scratchs. I'm wondering if this works with those? it says they go over the screen-so that may be something to concider before you fork over 70 bucks. or will i have to pay extra money for the "write-right compliant" one?

matisse:~$ cat .sig

technology in reverse!! by Anonymous Coward · 1999-10-22 06:55 · Score: 0

This is like Boeing reverse engineering it's fly-by-wire systems to allow for a mechanical system with a million direction changes, cables, levers, gizmos etc.. to push a button on the aileron's hydraulic controls.. rather than just extending the wire and switch to the cabin and allowing the pilot to directly do it. Just another part to fail.

Virtual writing space for Palm... by Robotech_Master · 1999-10-22 07:24 · Score: 2

You know, you can get Screenwrite, which allows you to write on the screen. The thing is, I'm actually glad for the Palm's separate writespace. I can put a piece of post-it notepaper over it to keep it from scratching up, and I don't write on the screen as much. I can replace the notepaper, but once the screen gets scratched up, that's that.

Anyway...I'm perfectly happy with my Palm, nonscreen-writing space and all.

--
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org

GoType by jfedor · 1999-10-22 07:32 · Score: 1

This CNN article talks about another alternative input device for PalmPilots/Visor.

-jfedor

More Info on ThumbType by ctmorse · 1999-10-23 00:50 · Score: 1

My website, Thinkmobile.com has posted a detailed article of ThumbType.

Seriously, if you are interested, please check out http://www.thinkmobile.com/Japan/Intro.a sp. We have specs and several pictures of the device. We are in the process of getting one to review and will post an update after we try it out.

-chris

--
Chris www.thinkmobile.com

GoType a little flimsy... by homunq · 1999-10-23 01:54 · Score: 1

My X, 7, and Done keys broke about 6 months after I bought it... I wasn't especially gentle with it, but no more cruel than I am to my Palm, which has survived over a year in its current incarnation. I suspect the Think Outside dealie (which I've tried out - it's a pleasant experience) is even flimsier when open, but possibly sturdier when closed, which is when it matters.

Also, the GoType doesn't assert any interrupts, so the hack has to query the serial port occasionally, making it slow to realize when you start typing. The Think Outside did this one right.

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Preferential Voting: easy as 1-2-3

37 comments