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'I Was a Human Crash-Test Dummy'
kris writes "Salon.com has a gross story titled I was a human crash test dummy about a professor who gave his body for human impact-survival research -- and lived to tell the tale. 'We needed some information on what the human body could stand." This is what retired Wayne State University biomechanics professor Lawrence M. Patrick will tell you if you ask him why he agreed to be slammed in the chest by a 22-pound metal pendulum, to hurl one knee repeatedly against a metal bar outfitted with a load cell and to undertake some 400 rides on a rapid-deceleration sled that mimics the effects of a car crashing head-on into a wall. From 1960 to 1975, Lawrence Patrick was a human crash-test dummy.'"
The funny part about this is that he probably won't have nearly as much long term negative health impact as the average NFL player. I've read in several places that NFL players shorten their lives by many years by punishing their bodies in the way that they do.
:)
Who knows? Some people are junkies for pain, and some people subscribe to the 80's skater creed; "Chicks dig scars, pain is temporary, glory is forever".
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
...that this story was about Windows 2000 users!
(sorry, couldn't resist...)
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Xenu loves you!
There is no doubt that some valuable information was gathered by this, but is it really that much more valuable than the data generated by a normal crash dummy?
Although come to think of it, this professor's actions show that he is pretty much a dummy, after all.
Mike Eckardt meckardt@yahoo.nospam.com
topic. =)
He got to spend fifteen years playing on a rapid-decelerator smashing into a wall, and those Salon people make it sound like a bad thing.
I'd pay money.
If so, I'll have to tell my girlfriend about her alma mater. I'm sure she'll be thrilled.
CT
Constitutionally Correct
This sounds absolutly crazy? I hope these people that did this study are rich people. Because if they did it just in the name of science, then I would have to say even smart people are really dumb.
Good is never enough, when you dream of being great!
For instance, when you figure out a human skull needs to travel 12.9 mph to break through a windshield, why does the skull have to contain a conscious brain? Get a dead body, stuff the skull with jello and let 'er rip.
Someone is going to say "because human cadavers are scarce for research". I have 2 responses to that already:
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Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
Look at the dates folks. 1960-1975. They were probaby deveoping data for crash dummies at the time. Now they use dead bodies, but stil need t d the same kind of thing. But they needed the live body for initial ideas of what a body could withstand. And wasn't there a guy who did the same thing for the AirForce. But with ejector seats.
-cpd
I know a guy who had this scarred into his forearm. It's entirely untrue, women thought it was disgusting and his knees are totally shot.
Then again so are mine, but I'm too old to ollie anymore, and the only grinding I do is with women who dig the scar on my chin.
"Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
Oh I guess hers was College. Hmm. OK, so where is WS University?
CT
Constitutionally Correct
Didn't he mean lack of other things?
Am I the only one who just decided that my body is better off in a grave than as a donation to science? *grin*
A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God.
You can't just look at a cadaver after a test and say "Hmmmm. Well, if he had been alive, he would have died." We just can't tell how much a live human can stand without using a live human. Of course if the cadaver's head is crushed or a bone is broken you know the equivalent results on a living, breathing human, but in some cases, I believe you could not be sure what effect it would have had on the subject.
...much of the early impact survival work was carried out on animals. "We saw chimpanzees riding rocket sleds, a bear on an impact swing...
Can you imagine the reports collected from this? Maybe something along the lines of...
"After applying the collision test with various different animals, the following speeds much be achieved to severely maim or kill the following animals:
Chimpanzee: 34 mph
Pig: 41 mph
Dog: 38 mph
Horse: Could not fit in viechle
--Note: Remember to warn passengers horse can't fit in viechle
Cat: 47 mph
Hampster: Could not keep strapped in seat belt
--Note: Optional cage in viechle for hampster?
Guinea Pig: Inconclusive
--Seat belt strangled Bob's pet Guinea Pig, Chippy...may he rest in peace in the name of science
--Note: Jack lost the bet and paid Bob $10 since the innards of a Guinea Pig were pink, not grey.
Pigs were popular subjects because of their similarities to humans "in terms of their organ set-up," as one industry insider put it, and because they can be coaxed into a useful approximation of a human sitting in a car.
"Here pig, pig, pig, Here piggy, piggy, piggy! There's a nice piece of corn right here for you inside this car! That's right...it's good corn...yes, corn taste's good...(SPROING!) (SPLAT!)"
Less adorable was the experiment's objective: "To produce injuries sufficiently severe to cause death and possibly decapitation of the test animals."
Warning on side of car: "This viechle was designed for humans. We are not responsible for the injury, death, or brutal slaughter of any animals that might occur during an accident, including, but not excluded to, horses, sheep, pigs, cows, monkeys, chimpanzees, cats, dogs, guinea pigs (RIP, Chippy), rats, mice, and rabbits."
On a Related Note, Am I just imagining things, or did Dr. Stapp recently pass away?
Depending on who is telling the story, He is either an inspiration or the inspiration for Murphy's Law
This reminds me of a story that took place when the govt, (and I say govt cause I can't remember which agency did this, nasa, airforce, I don't know), was testing the first ejector seats. They didn't want to use a test pilot but they had to get the reactions of a living thing. They needed something that was approximate in size to a human. So they used a brown bear. Yep, they stuck a bear in the seat and chucked him out of the plane. He was a pretty pissed off bear when he hit the ground.
As a student of Wayne State University, I can assure you it's not in Nebraska. It's in Detroit, Michigan and you can learn more at http://www.wayne.edu/.
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Why can't I moderate something "Wrong" or at least "Grossly Misinformed"?
I can see it now:
1960-1975
Deceleration Coordinator
Duties included managing stress and failure studies on body parts, studying healing process, and testing new procedures for bandage and splint application. Travelled frequently, though trips were short in duration. Operated machinery in an unsafe manner.
- -Josh Turiel
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
Another evidence for my theory that most professors are wacky :) Incognito Coward
Well, I'm rather using it...
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
yuck.
My body feels like it has already been through all that many times? The real thing can not be all that different? I want to help impact mankind by being impacted- sign me up.
Don't laugh but swimming is a lot better. Less contact and the pratices are almost always co-ed. I actually have some scars from the crazy sport too.
Don't talk about Human Crash Test Dummy Club.
of a similar experiment I heard about a SCUBA diving physician.
:)
As most people know, when you SCUBA dive, it is very dangerous to make a rapid ascent to the surface. You can get the Bends, or blow a hole in your lung or other nasty things can happen to you.
What this doctor was trying to figure out, was if you are performing an underwater rescue of a diver, and that diver is unconscious, do you take him up slowly (and risk not having enough time to revive him), or do you drop his weight belt and "Air Mail" him to the surface (where hopefully someone else can start to revive the person immediately).
In order to test his theory, he used himself as the victim. He dove down to 40 ft, and had someone knock him unconscious (probably with a hypodermic needle or something), and they fired him up to the surface... They repeated this several times. As far as I know, he suffered no damage, and his tests were a success
Now there is some dedication to your sport (and profession)...
ps are there any SCUBA divers on SlashDot???
- Cees
I can't remember what station did this. I think it was either PBS/NOVA or the Discovery Channel. It was primarily about the evolution of safety features in automobiles and how they were first invented. It showed several of these type tests being carried out both on the good doctor and on cadavers. Probably the most disturbing was the head impact tests where they put a body on a platform and dropped it about 3 feet so that the head would hit first. It was kind of neat to watch the first time but they kept going back to that footage again and again. It was enough to make you want to wear a helmet around the house all day long and never drive your car again.
Ah, my alma mater Wayne State University. It is located in Detroit MI. It's actually a pretty decent college known for it's science, medical, and engineering research. I just hope they fixed their class registration process (boy, it really sucked when I was there). At least they changed their mascot from "Tartar" (a Mongolian Figher not the Fish Sauce) to "Warriors".
Also here's a funny story slightly (okay very slightly) related to the article: I remember we were playing a basketball game in high school and my coach was ripping on some of my teammates. I believe his exact quote (minus the 4-letter words) was: "How many rebounds have you gotten? Zero? Son, I could of put a Wayne State cadaver out on the floor and he would of got as many rebounds as you did."
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"Joan of Arc was not stuck at the crossroads, either by rejecting all paths like Tolstoy, or by accepting them all like Nietzsche...She beat them both at their antagonistic ideals; she was more gentle than the one, more violent than the other...It was impossible that the thought should not cross my mind that she and her faith had perhaps some secret of unity and utility that has been lost. And with that thought came a larger one, and the colossal figure of her Master had also crossed the theatre of my thoughts." G.K.Chesterton in "Orthodoxy"
For an illuminating view of animal testing (and it's worth / applicabilty to humans), I would recommend a book by (please don't laugh until you've skimmed it) G. Gordon Liddy, called The Monkey Handlers.
It's a fun read if you like macho action-thrillers (2-bit summary: ex-SEAL prevents terrorists from using nerve gas on NYC, after discovering the nerve gas' development at a plant in New York which was doing some *interesting* animal tests) and can accept fiction for what it is, but I won't get into the literary merits of it. Whole other story.
The part that's relevant to this professor is that there is simply no really good way to extrapolate results from (much) animal testing to human beans. There are anatomical, chemical and pyschological differences between / among species both obvious and subtle.
I am unwilling to engage in a flame-war on this topic, so please don't flame me on this. I'm *not* necessarily against animal testing, only mentioning in passing that a) there are shortcomings to it which can render it less than useful and b) that people make a lot of money from doing studies with results like the (humorous, but frightening) hypothetical results above.
And this is off-tpoic enough for several weeks
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Yup, you can change anything you want, just tell me, and everyone else after you shove it back in. Together, we can build the perfect human!
Just please, for the love of God, scoop out the fat...
On a slightly offtopic but related note, this kind of stuff reminds me of the pre-NASA balloon projects that took place. We had people volunteering to be sent up by balloons into the upper edges of the atmosphere in order to see what a person could withstand. The theory at the time (late 1950s?) was that a person could not survive a fall from near-space altitudes. Well, these lunatics proved that wrong as they survived parachuting from the edge of space. I wish I could remember their names, but I recall 2 or three individuals doing this. For some folks it seems there is no limit in their search for an answer.
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"Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief."
"By now, of course, the tolerance limits of the human body have long ago been worked out, and dummies and computers stand in for corpses and lab animals."
Speaking of Wayne State cadaver's (WSU is my alma mater) I remember a high school basketall game where my coach was ripping on some of my teammates during halftime. I believe his exact quote (minus the 4-letter words) was: "How many rebounds have you gotten? Zero? Son, I could of put a Wayne State cadaver out on the floor and he would of got as many rebounds as you did." I guess to update the insult he could say "Son, I could put a computer simulating a live person out on the floor and it would of got as many rebounds as you did".
-------------------------------------------o an of Arc was not stuck at the crossroads, either by rejecting all paths like Tolstoy, or by accepting them all like Nietzsche...She beat them both at their antagonistic ideals; she was more gentle than the one, more violent than the other...It was impossible that the thought should not cross my mind that she and her faith had perhaps some secret of unity and utility that has been lost. And with that thought came a larger one, and the colossal figure of her Master had also crossed the theatre of my thoughts." G.K.Chesterton in "Orthodoxy"
"J
I remember reading once that, in the early days of the space race, the USAF had performed tests to determine the limits of the human evaporative cooling system (also known as "sweating.") The experiment involved placing naked pilots in a heating chamber with completely dehumidified air. I think the subjects wore a special mask so that they breathed room temperature air during the test. If I recall correctly, they determined that they could turn the temperature up to a whopping 400 degrees Fahrenheit for 30 seconds or so without harming the subjects, although they would lose a couple of pounds of water weight in that short time. Does anyone else remember this, or was I duped by an urban legend? I always wondered what happened to the pilot that got tested at 410F...
That is extremely scary. I had debated donating my body to science after I died but no way in hall now, man... and the fact that people will beat the crap out of themselves... well, I was about to say it is stupid, but it isn't. Its actually very noble of them to take this sacrifice for the better of others. I am NOT about to do this myself, but I commend those who have.
If you think you know what the hell is really going on you're probably full of shit.
If you think you know what the hell is really going on you're probably full of shit.
jdube is who I am.
A similar story about John Paul Stapp who died yesterday. He held the unofficial land speed record for a while. (How about decelerating so quickly your eyeballs almost pop out!)
The article also tells you the origin of Murphy's law. Pretty funny.
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I think that happened to me at a wild party once.
I can understand the need to have real human test dummies, in a way. I once heard that the reason so many drunk drivers walk away from accidents unharmed is due to the use of crash test dummies. The dummies are not able to "tense up" at the moment of impact like a normal human would in a crash situation. Thus, they safety features built in to cars are most effective on people who remain relaxed throughout the entire crash. Since alcohol is a depressant, it actually helps you relax your muscles in a situation like this, and you're more likely to survive! NOTE: This is not an encouragement to drink & drive to increase your saftey. :) But it does lead to the conclusion that if we're going to make cars that are safe for real people, we need to test the safety features on real people to get accurate information.
water boils at 212 F at 400 F for 30 seconds the sweat would boil off him causing steam burns all over his body.
I am a Volunteer FireFighter. There is NO way any human can withstand that temp for 30 seconds with no damage.
Heat stroke.. severe burns. no eyes... remember eyes are filled with fluid that boils...
How would you like your eyes boiled out of their sockets?
Son, your .sig is *way* too long.