I never said it does mean that. I see evidence every day all around me that we aren't here by accident and that the whole environment (terrestrial and non-) is here for us instead of us being here because of it.
...and an agnostic might see the same "evidence" and come to a different conclusion. It still doesn't prove that the "morals" you mentioned in your first post came from any other source than man....even if you choose to believe differently.
I don't need blind faith/belief when I already have evidence right in front of me.
Could you give us some examples, please? I'm not slamming your beliefs, but am willing to bet that your evidence can be viewed in more than one way.
Those who choose to interpret that evidence differently for their own agendas (1) are the ones who should be reconsidering what they think.
Here's where you lost me. Agendas? Are you even remotely suggesting that atheists and agnostics have an "agenda" that MAKES them believe as they do?
"And tonight, Pinky, we'll inspire the believers to abandon God, so we can take over the world!"
Just where does agenda come into play here?
1) What agenda would I have for believing what I do? I'm not in a position of power to influence others.
Belief doesn't require an agenda... and unless you live in a cave, with NO human contact whatsoever, then you have the power to influence others. In fact, I'd venture that it's unavoidable.
Evolution relegates mankind to the level of an animal and when we consider ourselves animals there isn't any sin anymore; people can then feel like they can do anything without consequence.
"Sin" is a relative term, depending on the religion [or lack of] that you believe in. What's "moral" or "right" by the lights of one religion may very well be heresy in another.
As for taking actions "without consequence", there's almost invariably a consequence, whether it's immediately evident or not. Have a look at Kohlberg's stages of moral development for details. Note there's no mention of religion in that article.
Just try to consider that being a Christian does NOT necessarily mean "blind belief".
You're suggesting that the your local TV station's Doppler 2008 15-minute weather segment is too long?
IMHO, the short answer is "Yes."
I can get info for the next 48 hours on ONE page, with all the data I'll need. Don't believe me? Great! Let's try something [for those in the US.]
First, got to the NOAA's page. Enter your ZIP code in the upper left-hand side of the page.
Next, scroll to the bottom of the next page and click "Hourly Weather Graph" in the "Additional Forecasts and Information" section. Read the next page carefully. Try mousing over the graph for information on a particular data point.
That page has all the data I'll need to plan my days/weekend in one place. I can read it in less than 10 seconds. If I want radar/doppler, it's a link at the bottom of that page, and I can even get the doppler in motion, with a limited zoom function.
So yeah, even counting the time to pull up the page, enter a zip code, and click a link, it's my opinion that 15 minutes is too long to get the same info I can get in around a minute.
Good! People who do stupid shit that raises everyone's health insurance should me mocked! I would prefer a society where people who cannot smoke eat or drink in moderation are ridiculed!
Tell ya what, I'll make you a deal. You let us imbibe our poison of choice legally, and you get to jeer to your heart's content... Sound fair?
Take us, for example. 40 years ago, no one would call us idiots for smoking. Non-smokers would get that adjective faster than us... But now, from nowhere the anti-smoke paranoia has taken over the world!
...and around 200 years ago, leeches were considered the "hot" medical necessity. Just ask George Washington about how that worked out. Nowadays, it's considered a pretty good bet that inhaling ANY kind of foreign particle can be harmful. A lot depends on genetic predisposition.
You can't smoke anywhere. And the argument given is not that it is for your own good! It's because others shouldn't breathe your smoke... This is flat hypocrisy...
Agreed there. I can't count how many yuppies have turned up their nose walking by me smoking...right before they get into their H3.... Living in San Antonio, Texas, we've almost lost our federal Clean Air funding because of increasing particulate matter. Looking at their plan to combat such, you might notice that cigarettes/cigars aren't mentioned at all. Of course, anti-smokers don't want to hear that.
When I leave home every day, why do I have to breathe an air polluted by all those anti-smokers?
That one's easy.... 'cause the government makes a lot of money from vehicle registration, taxes, and gas tax. That, and were the government to try to ban gas-based cars outright, QUITE a few industries would collapse almost instantly.
I think common sense is what should be cultivated. Because when you make laws to replace it, then it disappears.
Been to America recently, have you?;)
MANY people here have NO desire to think, and have even said as much in as many words. They don't WANT personal responsibility. They'd rather lose all their various rights for the illusion of protection. Fraggin' tragic.
Thanks for your reply, and if I may say so, your English is a LOT better than my Portuguese.
I'm sure there are things about yourself that you don't like, don't want pointed out, and don't do anything to improve. Should everyone else be asshats and start mocking you for them?
They already do. It's human nature to rag on anything "different" from the "norm"...
If I was really concerned with how others view my smoking, then I might quit. I'm not quitting in the near future, however, and so EXPECT the dirty looks and comments I get from the pink-lungers.
Look at the posts here, f'r example. If someone's acting the idiot, we have no shortage of posters that will tell 'em that in NO uncertain terms.
In short, if you don't like being called an idiot, don't ACT like an idiot. Don't expect the rest of us to keep your self-esteem afloat.
...but they're less likely to be, and you usually won't find them after the band... I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but when's the last time you saw a celeb with a S.O. in a band that WASN'T signed?
I don't know where you get the idea that a "higher class" of woman is any less likely to have a disease.
Maybe 'cause bar-flys are a LOT more likely to have impaired judgement than the sober...
Personally I'd rather trust a condom manufacturer and have a fun life than wait years to find the one woman who is willing to give me a doctor's bill of health before having sex.
Considering this, [check the failure rates] you're telling me that you'll risk infection rather than have a g/f that can afford a doctor's bill. Lovely.
A salary well in to the six figures and a giant retirement fund will get you even more chicks. I'll take my geeky computers over a "real" guitar any day.
...and usually a higher class of female, too.
I worked with a number of bands {mostly local, a few national} as crew. Would you REALLY want a chick that shags anyone with an instrument?? It's a great way to catch diseases, especially if she gets passed around the band. Trust me, looking for a discrete doctor for your band will take all the fun out of it.
Been there, done that... and thank God for penicillin!
Maybe Johnny Sales is best salesman on the team? then your not gonna convince them his going to donkeyporn.com and getting a virus every other week is a "big" concern.
To which you answer:
"You're right. Johnny brings in lots of money. In fact, he brings in enough money to offset the damage caused when someone gets our customer list and financial info from Johnny's PC. Why, Johnny will accept the legal liability for that, and pay for our overtime and for the lawyers! Who needs a secure bank account and client list when the money's rolling in?!?"
If, at that point, they all nod their heads and agree, hit the job ads....FAST.
Problem is only people who actually see us IT Security guys as valuable is actually our boss. Rest seem to think were nazi's wanting to show we can restrict all they do.
...then I might submit your boss isn't doing his job. He's supposed to be able to justify each and every security measure you have in place, and he's either not explaining the "why" of things in a manner that the other managers can take to their teams, or really CAN'T justify it... in either case, he's not doing his job.
Thus they rebel to show us we cant, when really were just trying to keep things moving.
So the employees are willfully causing damage to the systems, and the higher-ups are OK with that? If this is the case, I'd again suggest the job ads, a shrink, or both. You can't do your job with people fighting you.
The really unfortunate thing about the Open Source movement is that just about anyone who's willing to can step up and become a target for unnecessary scorn, ire, ridicule, and fruit-loops with pyramids on their head.
Get rid of the idiots, instead of turning people into idiots by not allowing them to learn, or bothering to teach them.
Easiest way to do that is to track who's wasting IT's time, as opposed to who's using the department wisely. When Johnny Sales calls for the tenth time in a week 'cause he just HAD to click the monkey for a better insurance deal, you or your boss should point out that Johnny blew 5 man-hours of labor that week...on a digital monkey.
Anyone that helpless needs to be replaced with someone who CAN follow policy.
Funny, they've been doing that for years and people have paid voluntarily for it.
Trust me, if you think the current crop is bottom of the barrel, you need to check out your local bands more often. I see all the "almost-made-its" and shudder...
I'm looking forward to playing improvisational jazz on the lids of garbage cans and raking in the money from their big pot o' cash.
Why not? These folks seem to be making a living from it, and I'd go to see 'em over Spears ANY day...
What worries me is that the recording companies will now scrape the bottom of the barrel for talent. Why wouldn't they? After all, they'll still get paid no matter WHAT crap they try to hand us.
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You speak in military (24 hour) time unnecessarily.
No, they used 24-hour time, which I saw on a lot of clocks when in Europe.
"Military time" doesn't have the colon in the middle.
{Cue colon jokes in 3.....2....1....}
I never said it does mean that. I see evidence every day all around me that we aren't here by accident and that the whole environment (terrestrial and non-) is here for us instead of us being here because of it.
...and an agnostic might see the same "evidence" and come to a different conclusion. It still doesn't prove that the "morals" you mentioned in your first post came from any other source than man....even if you choose to believe differently.
I don't need blind faith/belief when I already have evidence right in front of me.
Could you give us some examples, please? I'm not slamming your beliefs, but am willing to bet that your evidence can be viewed in more than one way.
Those who choose to interpret that evidence differently for their own agendas (1) are the ones who should be reconsidering what they think.
Here's where you lost me. Agendas? Are you even remotely suggesting that atheists and agnostics have an "agenda" that MAKES them believe as they do?
"And tonight, Pinky, we'll inspire the believers to abandon God, so we can take over the world!"
Just where does agenda come into play here?
1) What agenda would I have for believing what I do? I'm not in a position of power to influence others.
Belief doesn't require an agenda... and unless you live in a cave, with NO human contact whatsoever, then you have the power to influence others. In fact, I'd venture that it's unavoidable.
Evolution relegates mankind to the level of an animal and when we consider ourselves animals there isn't any sin anymore; people can then feel like they can do anything without consequence.
"Sin" is a relative term, depending on the religion [or lack of] that you believe in. What's "moral" or "right" by the lights of one religion may very well be heresy in another.
As for taking actions "without consequence", there's almost invariably a consequence, whether it's immediately evident or not. Have a look at Kohlberg's stages of moral development for details. Note there's no mention of religion in that article.
Just try to consider that being a Christian does NOT necessarily mean "blind belief".
Also from Wikipedia:
E-type asteroids are asteroids thought to have enstatite achondrite surfaces.
Might be where they get the "metal" part from... ;)
If the government would stop handing out money, AA would go out of business or be forced to operate responsibly.
After all, they would be forced to operate like a business....
So, which is it? Operate as a business, cutting costs at every turn, or operating responsibly, even if it means taking a loss?
You're suggesting that the your local TV station's Doppler 2008 15-minute weather segment is too long?
IMHO, the short answer is "Yes."
I can get info for the next 48 hours on ONE page, with all the data I'll need. Don't believe me? Great! Let's try something [for those in the US.]
First, got to the NOAA's page. Enter your ZIP code in the upper left-hand side of the page.
Next, scroll to the bottom of the next page and click "Hourly Weather Graph" in the "Additional Forecasts and Information" section. Read the next page carefully. Try mousing over the graph for information on a particular data point.
That page has all the data I'll need to plan my days/weekend in one place. I can read it in less than 10 seconds. If I want radar/doppler, it's a link at the bottom of that page, and I can even get the doppler in motion, with a limited zoom function.
So yeah, even counting the time to pull up the page, enter a zip code, and click a link, it's my opinion that 15 minutes is too long to get the same info I can get in around a minute.
I should be having a littlun next year and want them to be learning proper science.
Tom, if you're giving birth next year, you have problems larger than we can resolve here at present.
When you consider who traditionally pays for the wedding, it's not too surprising it's all about their little girl...
Good! People who do stupid shit that raises everyone's health insurance should me mocked! I would prefer a society where people who cannot smoke eat or drink in moderation are ridiculed!
Tell ya what, I'll make you a deal. You let us imbibe our poison of choice legally, and you get to jeer to your heart's content... Sound fair?
The point-of-sale package we sell mandates SOAP installation before it'll work. I wonder how badly this will bork their development/upgrade cycles...
Take us, for example. 40 years ago, no one would call us idiots for smoking. Non-smokers would get that adjective faster than us... But now, from nowhere the anti-smoke paranoia has taken over the world!
...and around 200 years ago, leeches were considered the "hot" medical necessity. Just ask George Washington about how that worked out. Nowadays, it's considered a pretty good bet that inhaling ANY kind of foreign particle can be harmful. A lot depends on genetic predisposition.
You can't smoke anywhere. And the argument given is not that it is for your own good! It's because others shouldn't breathe your smoke... This is flat hypocrisy...
Agreed there. I can't count how many yuppies have turned up their nose walking by me smoking...right before they get into their H3.... Living in San Antonio, Texas, we've almost lost our federal Clean Air funding because of increasing particulate matter. Looking at their plan to combat such, you might notice that cigarettes/cigars aren't mentioned at all. Of course, anti-smokers don't want to hear that.
When I leave home every day, why do I have to breathe an air polluted by all those anti-smokers?
That one's easy.... 'cause the government makes a lot of money from vehicle registration, taxes, and gas tax. That, and were the government to try to ban gas-based cars outright, QUITE a few industries would collapse almost instantly.
I think common sense is what should be cultivated. Because when you make laws to replace it, then it disappears.
Been to America recently, have you? ;)
MANY people here have NO desire to think, and have even said as much in as many words. They don't WANT personal responsibility. They'd rather lose all their various rights for the illusion of protection. Fraggin' tragic.
Thanks for your reply, and if I may say so, your English is a LOT better than my Portuguese.
I'm sure there are things about yourself that you don't like, don't want pointed out, and don't do anything to improve. Should everyone else be asshats and start mocking you for them?
They already do. It's human nature to rag on anything "different" from the "norm"...
If I was really concerned with how others view my smoking, then I might quit. I'm not quitting in the near future, however, and so EXPECT the dirty looks and comments I get from the pink-lungers.
Look at the posts here, f'r example. If someone's acting the idiot, we have no shortage of posters that will tell 'em that in NO uncertain terms.
In short, if you don't like being called an idiot, don't ACT like an idiot. Don't expect the rest of us to keep your self-esteem afloat.
Well, according to Florida's corporate registry, they only issued one thousand shares.... probably to the two brothers.
Anyone else want to dig further?
I don't see how Apple could ever be compelled to provide support on any hardware it doesn't deem acceptable.
The same way Microsoft handles equipment not on the Hardware Compatibility List:
They'll tell you to take it up with the equipment manufacturer.
I'm waiting on the version for mushroom fanatics....Portabello!
Golddiggers and rich women can be whores too.
...but they're less likely to be, and you usually won't find them after the band... I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but when's the last time you saw a celeb with a S.O. in a band that WASN'T signed?
I don't know where you get the idea that a "higher class" of woman is any less likely to have a disease.
Maybe 'cause bar-flys are a LOT more likely to have impaired judgement than the sober...
Personally I'd rather trust a condom manufacturer and have a fun life than wait years to find the one woman who is willing to give me a doctor's bill of health before having sex.
Considering this, [check the failure rates] you're telling me that you'll risk infection rather than have a g/f that can afford a doctor's bill. Lovely.
Penicillin doesn't cure AIDS. Bag it and get on with it!
...said the band member with crotch crickets...
Me, I'm not keen enough on getting laid that I'll trust my life SOLELY to a condom manufacturer...
A salary well in to the six figures and a giant retirement fund will get you even more chicks. I'll take my geeky computers over a "real" guitar any day.
...and usually a higher class of female, too.
I worked with a number of bands {mostly local, a few national} as crew. Would you REALLY want a chick that shags anyone with an instrument?? It's a great way to catch diseases, especially if she gets passed around the band. Trust me, looking for a discrete doctor for your band will take all the fun out of it.
Been there, done that... and thank God for penicillin!
Maybe Johnny Sales is best salesman on the team? then your not gonna convince them his going to donkeyporn.com and getting a virus every other week is a "big" concern.
To which you answer:
"You're right. Johnny brings in lots of money. In fact, he brings in enough money to offset the damage caused when someone gets our customer list and financial info from Johnny's PC. Why, Johnny will accept the legal liability for that, and pay for our overtime and for the lawyers! Who needs a secure bank account and client list when the money's rolling in?!?"
If, at that point, they all nod their heads and agree, hit the job ads....FAST.
Problem is only people who actually see us IT Security guys as valuable is actually our boss. Rest seem to think were nazi's wanting to show we can restrict all they do.
...then I might submit your boss isn't doing his job. He's supposed to be able to justify each and every security measure you have in place, and he's either not explaining the "why" of things in a manner that the other managers can take to their teams, or really CAN'T justify it... in either case, he's not doing his job.
Thus they rebel to show us we cant, when really were just trying to keep things moving.
So the employees are willfully causing damage to the systems, and the higher-ups are OK with that? If this is the case, I'd again suggest the job ads, a shrink, or both. You can't do your job with people fighting you.
The really unfortunate thing about the Open Source movement is that just about anyone who's willing to can step up and become a target for unnecessary scorn, ire, ridicule, and fruit-loops with pyramids on their head.
There, fixed that for ya...
We've been Dash Slotted!!!!
Mr. and Mrs. Incredible would like to speak with you concerning your after-school activities with their son....
NOW.
Get rid of the idiots, instead of turning people into idiots by not allowing them to learn, or bothering to teach them.
Easiest way to do that is to track who's wasting IT's time, as opposed to who's using the department wisely. When Johnny Sales calls for the tenth time in a week 'cause he just HAD to click the monkey for a better insurance deal, you or your boss should point out that Johnny blew 5 man-hours of labor that week...on a digital monkey.
Anyone that helpless needs to be replaced with someone who CAN follow policy.
"Honey, we've simply GOT to have all this porn.... to recover our hard drive!"
Kudos to the individual that can pull THAT line off...
Funny, they've been doing that for years and people have paid voluntarily for it.
Trust me, if you think the current crop is bottom of the barrel, you need to check out your local bands more often. I see all the "almost-made-its" and shudder...
I'm looking forward to playing improvisational jazz on the lids of garbage cans and raking in the money from their big pot o' cash.
Why not? These folks seem to be making a living from it, and I'd go to see 'em over Spears ANY day...
What worries me is that the recording companies will now scrape the bottom of the barrel for talent. Why wouldn't they? After all, they'll still get paid no matter WHAT crap they try to hand us.