The Best Gaming PC Money Can Buy

SlappingOysters writes "Gameplayer has gone live with their best PC hardware configurations for Q3 2008. They've broken it into three tiers depending on the investor's budget. And while the prices are regional, it is comparative across the globe. 'In order to play these slices of gaming goodness, you're going to need a decent rig, and we sent our PC hardware guru in search of maximum frames in maximum detail, but at a minimum cost. We have three tiers for the three levels of PC gamers out there and all the detail you could possibly want on where, why and what to buy. So choose your poison and get amongst it.'"

Comments

Yes, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

What kind of telnet programs do they come with for mudding?

Re:Yes, but...

[Tragedy4u]

If you're running Vista, none (at least by default). Seriously it's not in the default install, you have to add it later.

Re:Yes, but...

[myz24]

I didn't RTFA but if they are spec'ing Vista then there isn't even a telnet client installed by default!

Re:Yes, but...

[Bacon Bits]

You say that like it's a bad thing. If I need telnet I'll just get PuTTY anyways. The only thing telnet is good for anymore is checking to make sure SMTP traffic works and configuring devices that won't talk with anything else. Otherwise you *don't* use it any more that you use rsh or rcp.

Frankly, I'm more irritated that Windows doesn't ship with a built-in ssh and sshd. And no, remote desktop does not count.

Re:Yes, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Meh, windows telnet was never very good anyway (especially the win9x client that liked to hang completely on error) so no great loss. PuTTY ftw.

Re:Yes, but...

[kurokaze]

oh man.. I can't stand putty. Exceed FTW for me!

Re:Yes, but...

[Draykwing]

A couple things. One, if you want something even more ridiculously overspecced for mudding and which will even work with the best mudding OS (Linux, naturally), try this on for size: http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=4365528&WishListTitle=UltraComp Also, a really fun MUD: Temporal Rifts.

Re:Yes, but...

[CronoCloud]

The only thing telnet is good for anymore is checking to make sure SMTP traffic works and configuring devices that won't talk with anything else.

What, you don't play Nethack on public servers over telnet? :-)

Re:Yes, but...

[jonaskoelker]

The only thing telnet is good for anymore is checking to make sure SMTP traffic works and configuring devices that won't talk with anything else.

And wouldn't trust telnet with that either. Last I checked, it inserts characters that talk to your terminal--ever wonder how a MUD can clear your screen? You really should do yourself a favor and use netcat instead, as they connect stdin and -out with a socket completely transparently. See man netcat for more reasons to use it over telnet.

(If you want netcat with support for openssl, ipv6, unix sockets and all other kinds of unix streams, use socat instead; they both do udp).

Re:Yes, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

BeipMU is good: http://www.beipmu.com/

Re:Yes, but...

[Tragedy4u]

It is a bad thing, telnet is still a useful troubleshooting tool to determine if TCP ports can be opened...it can help determine if a problem is at the network layer or the application/presentation layer...because being a network admin users often say "the network is down". Routers still use telnet by default, many commercial unixes still don't have SSH installed by default. Imagine trying to troubleshoot users workstations on the LAN on the fly and you need to boil down what the issue is, do you want to download and install putty or the optional Vista telnet component each time? Try being at a shop with a draconian locked down desktop policy where you CANT install whatever you like, whenever you need it even if you are the IT dept. Telnet isn't useless, removing it by default removes a useful troubleshooting tool which IS a bad thing. Just my two cents.

Re:Yes, but...

[Fulcrum of Evil]

it's called terminal emulation, and you can modify that too. Regardless, telnet works just fine for smtp testing.

oh christ

[nimbius]

and i just closed the newegg tab...

looks like ramen again this month

Re:oh christ

[Opportunist]

What do you mean, "this month"? Priorities, man, food or bleedin' edge hardware, pick one!

Re:oh christ

[morgan_greywolf]

What do you mean, "this month"? Priorities, man, food or bleedin' edge hardware, pick one!

If he ain't starving yet, he needs to turn in his geek card. Now.

Re:oh christ

[Opportunist]

You don't need to starve, brother. There's a lot of fiber in newspaper and if you flush it down with some coke, you even have the essential dose of caffeine for the day. You can grind and dissolve stale bread in (lots of) water and drink the slurry (again, coke makes things interesting here, too!) to fill your stomach...

Can you tell I just spent 2k on a new monitor system? :)

Re:oh christ

[twodayslate]

Can you tell I just spent 2k on a new monitor system? :)

2k? WTF did you buy? This must be a kick ass monitor(s).

Re:oh christ

[morgan_greywolf]

IIRC, I think Opportunist here is a musician of sorts. I'm guessing a 'monitor system' may consist audio monitors, not video monitors.

Re:oh christ

[morgan_greywolf]

As a transplanted Floridian, I heartily recommend the palmetto bugs. You can put them on a stick and roast them over an open flame or just fry 'em up in a pan.

Mmmmm....Crunchy.

Up North, I hear you can do much the same with various small rodents.

Re:oh christ

[Anonymous Coward]

+3 Insightful?

this should either be +5 Funny or +5 Sad, Sad Person

Re:oh christ

[nschubach]

I can think of several (computer) multiple monitor configurations that I would love to have that easily hit $2K US. (with mounting brackets included)

Re:oh christ

[garett_spencley]

You can grind and dissolve stale bread in (lots of) water and drink the slurry (again, coke makes things interesting here, too!)

Obviously you're being funny, but I can't help but point out that there's lots of far better ways to make use of stale bread. Croutons for salad. Crushing into crumbs for breading stuff. Making a poultry stuffing etc.

Re:oh christ

[glittalogik]

Making a poultry stuffing etc.

Is it seriously that easy for a starving, out-of-shape, sunlight-deprived slashdotter to catch the pigeons in your neighbourhood? They must be retarded!

Re:oh christ

[okmijnuhb]

Looks like me and the dogs will be competing around the food bowl.

Re:oh christ

[Opportunist]

Crumbs are nice if you HAVE something to bread. But when you're down to grinding stale dark bread, you're usually not really in the position to use that bread as some sort of spice or seasoning.

Re:oh christ

[Opportunist]

That's how it is.

Also, it's 2k Euro, not USD. The mounting is actually the cheap part, the 600 Euro a piece monitors drive the price.

It gives you a lot more information without switching, though. Your code on the middle screen, documentation and browser to your left, disassembly and hexdump to your right. Once you tried it, you don't really want to go back. Just one monitor seems so tiny compared to that.

Re:oh christ

[twodayslate]

That would explain it...

Re:oh christ

[Paranatural]

Open Flame nothing. Overclock one of your spare CPUs and use the bug as thermal paste, it'll cook up a treat!

The investor's budget?

[llamalad]

Buying a pc is an investment now?

Re:The investor's budget?

[Ethanol-fueled]

Yes, an investment in planned obsolescence.

Re:The investor's budget?

[extirpater]

Buying a pc is an investment now?

if you've lots of geek chicks around: Yes!

Re:The investor's budget?

[ivan256]

  investment
              n 1: the act of investing; laying out money or capital in an
                        enterprise with the expectation of profit

No. No it is not. And every computer and used car salesman that refers to the purchase of something guaranteed to decrease in value over time should be sued for false advertising.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Atlantis-Rising]

Are you telling me that as a computer geek, when you lay out money to purchase a computer you do not expect profit to arise from it?

I think that's a very dangerous statement. Everyone who uses their computer for work 'invests' in it. Everyone who uses their second-hand car to drive to work 'invests' in it.

It is not solely necessary for the capital expense to appreciate for it to be an investment.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Daimanta]

Is the saving of money worth not having a pc(with internet)? Having a pc is surely an investment just as having internet is. Having more pc's than you need is not an investment though.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Anonymous Coward]

  investment

              n 1: the act of investing; laying out money or capital in an

                        enterprise with the expectation of profit

No. No it is not. And every computer and used car salesman that refers to the purchase of something guaranteed to decrease in value over time should be sued for false advertising.

profit
            n 1: An advantageous gain or return; benefit.

Profit is not only measured in $$. It is also measured in :)

Re:The investor's budget?

[POTSandPANS]

I agree. A friend of mine had bought a Mustang GT in 2005, which was the first year of the current body style. The salesman's words: "This car might even go up in value someday because it's the first year of this body style!"

I wish I were joking

Re:The investor's budget?

[Lumpy]

They also think that cars and electronics are "investments" as well, typically nobody knows what the word "investment" means anymore.

I guess it sounds better in marketing than saying...

"Our new PC's are awesome! Get a liability in one today!"

Re:The investor's budget?

[AuMatar]

Depends- if you buy the computer for a business, its a capital investment.

Re:The investor's budget?

[77Punker]

The computer I use at work has a 2.4 GHz P4 and 1.5 Gb of RAM. It's surely not the fastest thing around, but it runs my IDE just fine and my work gets done without a hitch.

How would buying a screaming fast computer for work make my job any more profitable?

Re:The investor's budget?

[orclevegam]

You could write it off as a business expense?

Re:The investor's budget?

[Sancho]

How many colons and right parentheses does a $5000 gaming rig get you?

Re:The investor's budget?

[Atlantis-Rising]

That's a complicated question. There are basically three answers:

1: It may make your work faster and more efficient.
2: It may require less maintenance than your old computer.
3: It won't, but that's not necessary; it's like asking a workman whether a new hammer would make his job any more profitable. That doesn't mean it's not an investment anyway.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Brigadier]

amen, I recall setting up my over clocked celron on dual voodoo2 cards. Then it was a duel Athelon 64, funny thing is all my game time is spent playing soduko and playing my son's DS. As far as my dual athelon 64 I haven't turned it on in over a year. I got tired of the sound of the fans sucking the oxegen out of the room, the diso type lighting and my room temp going up to 100 degrees with the AC on.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Anarke_Incarnate]

Somebody should then explain to you how "Write offs" work. You can only deduct the money spent from taxable income. You save ~30% of the cost or you can amortize it over a multi year cycle depending on certain criteria. Doing so does not save you more money than the new computer costs.

The issues with a new computer cost more than the outlay cost as the migration of data, new software (as needed) as well as configuration cost time and money. However, over the course of a computer's life cycle, older systems often become more problematic and cause unplanned work interruptions, which can especially, over the course of time, cost more than the outlay for new equipment as well as the configuration, if planned appropriately.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Scarletdown]

No. No it is not. And every computer and used car salesman that refers to the purchase of something guaranteed to decrease in value over time should be sued for false advertising.

I'm fairly certain that with fuel prices as high as they are, my humble little 1996 Geo Metro has increased in value over the years instead of decreased.

Re:The investor's budget?

[andy9701]

The computer I use at work has a 2.4 GHz P4 and 1.5 Gb of RAM. It's surely not the fastest thing around, but it runs my IDE just fine and my work gets done without a hitch.

Apparently someone doesn't run Visual Studio 2005 with a moderately large C++ solution. ;)

Seriously though, your work computer is nearly identical to mine, except I have 2GB of RAM. While I got the RAM upgrade earlier this year (from 1GB), and it helped quite a bit, I'm still amazed at Visual Studio's need to peg my CPU at 100% on a frequent basis. How much I hate to see "Updating Intellisense"....

Re:The investor's budget?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think they mean you must be wealthy enough to be a serious stock market investor to afford this.

Re:The investor's budget?

[jonaskoelker]

guaranteed to decrease in value over time

True and stated: Whenever you buy a computer C at time t0, there's a time t1 > t0 such that val(t0, C) < val(t1, C).

Possible and not stated: there is a time t2 >> t1, such that val(t2, C) > val(t0, C), due to num(t2, C) << num(t0, C).

That is, your old Amiga 500 might become a collectors item some day :)

Re:The investor's budget?

[afabbro]

I think that's a very dangerous statement... It is not solely necessary for the capital expense to appreciate for it to be an investment.

It's not as dangerous as confusing capital expenditures and expenses.

MCI Worldcom and Arthur Anderson went out of business for trying to use labels loosely like that.

Re:The investor's budget?

[timbck2]

  investment

              n 1: the act of investing; laying out money or capital in an

                        enterprise with the expectation of profit

No. No it is not. And every computer and used car salesman that refers to the purchase of something guaranteed to decrease in value over time should be sued for false advertising.

Sorry, I gotta do this. It's bothering my OCD too much.

No. No it is not. And every computer and used car salesman that refers to the purchase of something guaranteed to decrease in value over time as an investment should be sued for false advertising.

There, fixed that for you.

Re:The investor's budget?

[HouseArrest420]

A computer is still an investment, even fo you. Just because upgrading wouldn't be profitable doesn't mean having a computer isn't profitable for you. Answer me this, if you didnt have a computer....would your ide work then? If you didn't have a computer....would your career choice be profitable? Nope.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Machtyn]

Really, what is wrong with this statement if in 2105, the car is worth some amount more than its original value (adjusted for inflation) due to its pristine condition and historical value? Heck, you don't even have to go back 100 years to find cars where the value has increased because of its nostalgic or rarity value. Now, if it was a Ford Focus or some other run of the mill piece of crap Ford (or Chevy, GM, Toyota, Honda, take your pick), then I would agree with your statement.

Re:The investor's budget?

[jlarocco]

How would buying a screaming fast computer for work make my job any more profitable?

Who said it would? There's diminishing returns on processor speed, memory, and number of machines, but it's still a capital investment just like any other tool. How profitable would your job be without the computer? If the answer is less than with the computer it's a capital investment.

Re:The investor's budget?

[ivan256]

As we move further from the time where computers were new, rare, and novel, the chance of your second theorem becoming true for a new system approaches zero. I would argue that the probability for any system currently manufactured is already sufficiently small as to be insignificant.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Sockatume]

I doubt that much profit is going to be made on these machines, though. Certainly little of any work that gets done will use the expensive components.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Tanktalus]

Apparently, it's worth twice as much with a full tank as with an empty one.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Van Cutter Romney]

Marginal Benefit, my friend. Marginal Benefit.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Amamdouh]

I think the definition would be more accurate to say "expectation of return" in this sense the advertising should not be false. The same way one says I am paying for a gym to play sports and invest in my health. It does not mean that the gym membership value would increase over time. In the case of gaming the return would arguably be a better gaming experience. -- I wish I could think of a smart ass thing to put as a signature

Re:The investor's budget?

[p0tat03]

How would buying a screaming fast computer for work make my job any more profitable?

Depends on what you do. For a 3D artist, for example, a faster machine means shorter rendering times. This creates less downtime, moves the design-render-refine cycle faster, and also opens more possibilities to allow the client to tweak the final product with you.

For a coder who's working on a massive code base, we're looking at shorter compile times. Cutting compiles from 4 hours to 1 is a pretty significant gain that will likewise see a rise in productivity. Having a blazing server-class workstation also allows you to test your code in conditions that are more similar to what your code would be running once deployed.

For an artist, a massively fast computer (or really just one with an assload of RAM) allows more multitasking. Having Photoshop, Illustrator, a compositing app, etc etc, open all at once is great for productivity, and it allows you to bounce between apps without huge downtime.

But a few examples of why speed is still important in computing.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Anonymous Coward]

we're talking about a gaming PC here...

Re:The investor's budget?

[Fael]

I think the assumption implicit in such a statement ("you could write it off") is that the fiscal alternative is buying porn, funding a drug habit, collecting Hot Wheels, or what have you - rather than saving or investing it. In such a case, you are, in fact, "saving" yourself money by channeling the insatiable need for consumption into something at least partially tax-deductible.

Re:The investor's budget?

[rgviza]

The PC I bought my wife to do her work on, paid for itself in 30 days. We laid out money for a new PC for her work, with the expectation that she would use it to make money.

It was a good investment since she successfully used it to find and sell homes to buyers, and recouped the cost in less time than it took to depreciate. Now that it's paid for it's proving to be an excellent investment, since her old one was slow and she spilled soup into the keyboard (it was a laptop from 2000) which started causing problems and impacted her productivity.

Same deal for a car you use to drive to work. You profit from your salary so when you buy a car for commuting, it's an investment, even if it's a Mustang GT, though these days a smarter investment would be a Prius. However the prius offers less emotional return on investment so whether or not a hotrod is a good investment is subjective.

If blowing off steam by testing the reported 0-60MPH acceleration times causes a stress relief that helps you live longer, the Mustang is a damn good investment, despite the fuel cost. This value is immeasurable.

You can't take it with you and it pays to be giddy a few times a day, as irrational as that might be, it's simply good for you ;) Sometimes investing in your happiness is a good thing. You can see increased salary as well as work productivity when you are happy which is an indirect monetary gain, though the profit doesn't need to be monetary.

Merriam-Webster's defines profit as:
1: a valuable return : gain
2: the excess of returns over expenditure in a transaction or series of transactions; especially : the excess of the selling price of goods over their cost
3: net income usually for a given period of time
4: the ratio of profit for a given year to the amount of capital invested or to the value of sales
5: the compensation accruing to entrepreneurs for the assumption of risk in business enterprise as distinguished from wages or rent

I think happiness fits definition 1 (as long as you consider happiness valuable) and can be had with a 1337 gaming rig or car whether or not you use it to make money directly.

-Viz

Re:The investor's budget?

[wigle]

In English that's just one sense of 'investment'. The other is the one we use for making large purchases.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Scarletdown]

Gas prices are not yet to the point where a full 8 gallon tank is $2000, which would make the car's value $4000.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Rogerborg]

Heh. An article written based on items purchased days or weeks in the past is already pimping obsolete rigs.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Atlantis-Rising]

Arguably, 'capital expense' is a valid term; the counterpart would be 'operating expense'. You can say 'capital expenditures' and 'operating expenditures'.

The capital part is, arguably, the important part of the phrase although I agree that 'expense' by itself implies operating expenditures.

Re:The investor's budget?

[The Iso]

It doesn't need to be "screaming fast," but scrap that Pentium and get a modern CPU.

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000867.html

Re:The investor's budget?

[ari_j]

Are you "fairly certain" as in a wild-ass guess not based in actual market figures, or "fairly certain" as in you have documentation of market figures that reflect your statement's veracity?

Re:The investor's budget?

[LWATCDR]

A gaming rig probably not. But yes often the purchase of a computer is an investment. Just like buying any other tool.
You profit not because it increases in value over time but by the work you do with it.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody is talking about your relic of a computer and your simple computing needs, clown.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Have Blue]

This is somewhat academic considering TFA is about a computer intended primarily for entertainment.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Medievalist]

like asking a workman whether a new hammer would make his job any more profitable. That doesn't mean it's not an investment anyway.

Yes, if the new hammer improves ergonomics to the point where the workman can do more work in less time, or the old hammer was so non-ergonomic it was going to cost him dearly in medical bills late in life, profit is not necessarily going to be immediately measurable in dollars.

Eventually, though, the money spent on the new hammer might pay off in happier children (Dad has more time for his kids) or a happier retirement (Dad does not have a useless right arm at age 70). I'd consider that a good investment, myself.

Re:The investor's budget?

[aztracker1]

I find that dual monitors are probably the single most useful thing in programming, at least for me. This is mainly web based applications.. but even then having email/im etc open on a secondary screen helps a lot in maximizing workspace/flow. And monitors really get used for the life of said monitor, unlike a lot of other hardware. As to more ram, that is usually second most important, at least 2-4GB (4+ if you run VMs)... CPU, GPU etc depend on your uses... but that's just me, and again, monitors will generally get a long life.. and ram tends to extend the usable life of a computer in general... Beyond that, depending on what you are using, you can often get something faster pretty cheap... Hell, a new MSI Wind barebones is almost as fast as that 3Ghz P4, for really cheap... Today's cheaper desktops are reasonably powerful for day to day use over most 4+ year old hardware, for a minimal hardware investment.

I just point this out as it doesn't even have to come down to your examples, or the idea of laying out cash for something that expires right away.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Donniedarkness]

+10, Funny

Re:The investor's budget?

[rantingkitten]

Maybe that's true if you restrict the definition of "profit" to mean the acquisition of material wealth. But even if you do nothing else with your computer but play video games, then I would argue that, assuming you really enjoy your games, you are profiting from your purchase.

Of course, for me, a faster computer with more memory also means better virtual machine handling, faster audio editing and post-processing, faster compile times, cooler games, and the ability to have those applications open which I need without trading off in performance due to memory constraints and so forth. All of which adds up to more work done in less time, or at least, more goofing off in less time, depending on what I'm doing. Either way, I'm benefitting.

Re:The investor's budget?

[TheSambassador]

profit
n 1: the advantageous quality of being beneficial
Profit isn't necessarily monetary gains. I think even the fact that I play games on my computer means I get "profit," in that I enjoy the time spent on it.

Re:The investor's budget?

[smellsofbikes]

>run of the mill piece of crap Ford (or Chevy, GM, Toyota, Honda, take your pick)

Hard to forecast, though.
My friend's Honda Insight, 7 years old, is now selling for the same price it sold brand-new, for lower-mileage examples.
Likewise, any reasonably intact Ford Mustang from 1964 sells for quite a bit more than it sold new.
But in both cases, it would be a *terrible* investment if you were looking for a growth investment. If you're looking for something that you can get a lot of use from for a number of years, and then get some money out of it, well, then, you have a good deal.

Re:The investor's budget?

[daveime]

Your mum does not count as "lots", get back in the basement !

Re:The investor's budget?

[maxume]

I thought it was a joke. Of course, unlike write offs, jokes are ruined by explanation.

Re:The investor's budget?

[jollyreaper]

Are you telling me that as a computer geek, when you lay out money to purchase a computer you do not expect profit to arise from it?

I think that's a very dangerous statement. Everyone who uses their computer for work 'invests' in it. Everyone who uses their second-hand car to drive to work 'invests' in it.

It is not solely necessary for the capital expense to appreciate for it to be an investment.

They're talking about gaming PC's. It's entertainment.

If I were to buy a truck because I own a construction business, it's a depreciable expense that I could still look at as an "investment" in the company because I am looking to grow the value of the business over time and the truck lets me make more money than I would have otherwise been able to do without it. But no accountant would treat it as an investment, it's the wrong term.

One could try to make this investment argument if the owner of the system is a professional gamer (snicker) or a game developer.

Re:The investor's budget?

[maxume]

A Mustang GT is a run of the mill piece of crap Ford. They are nice and have excellent performance/dollar, but they aren't anything resembling collectible.

Don't believe me? Note the stellar retention of value:

http://www.edmunds.com/ford/mustang/review.html

Re:The investor's budget?

[The Grim Reefer2]

like asking a workman whether a new hammer would make his job any more profitable. That doesn't mean it's not an investment anyway.

Yes, if the new hammer improves ergonomics to the point where the workman can do more work in less time, or the old hammer was so non-ergonomic it was going to cost him dearly in medical bills late in life, profit is not necessarily going to be immediately measurable in dollars.

Eventually, though, the money spent on the new hammer might pay off in happier children (Dad has more time for his kids) or a happier retirement (Dad does not have a useless right arm at age 70). I'd consider that a good investment, myself.

If you go to a construction site an find a worker using a hammer to actually drive in nails in the US, you better start looking for a blue police box or something. Pneumatic nail guns have replaced the hammer for this long ago.

Re:The investor's budget?

[amnezick]

what the??? offtopic? geez...
someone in their right mind please give Sancho what he deserves

Re:The investor's budget?

[Scarletdown]

My certainty is based on both a little bit of web searching, plus the countless times I have had people asking if I was interested in selling my Geo. And everyone of these had mentioned that they are not easy to find for sale, and when they are for sale, they are pretty pricey.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Medievalist]

If you go to a construction site an find a worker using a hammer to actually drive in nails in the US, you better start looking for a blue police box or something. Pneumatic nail guns have replaced the hammer for this long ago.

Not in my neighborhood. I see people swinging hammers all the time. I've never seen a "police box" AFAIK though.

Re:The investor's budget?

[felipekk]

OMG where do you live? I wanna move there!

Re:The investor's budget?

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, pneumatic nail guns are really convenient when you need to drive 2 nails at the top of a tall ladder. It was just an example anyway. Replace "hammer" with "nail gun" if it makes you happy.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Scarletdown]

Sorry. You can't live where I live. My house is too small to support more than two Humans and a cat.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Bake]

Sounds like you have ReSharper installed.

Do yourself a big favor and disable it, if not outright uninstall it.

Re:The investor's budget?

[DevonBorn]

Don't forget all the computers used for industrial control applications - as they get old and die their replacements increase in value to the company as similar systems (with, say, ISA slots) become more rare so they will be willing to pay more in order that they won't have to design, make and test a new system when the old one worked well enough.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, it was directly related to the post to which I replied. If anything, the entire thread "The investor's budget" is off-topic, but my post no more so than any of the others.

Sancho (posting anonymously, in case people follow your silly request)

(besides, isn't every "mod parent X" post offtopic?)

Re:The investor's budget?

[9mm Censor]

Pro Gamer Business Plan 1. Buy PC 2. Play Games 3. Go Pro @ e-sport of choice 4. Profit at tournments Digital Artist Business Plan 1. Buy Mac 2. Make Digital Art 3. Sell it/ Blog it/ etc 4. Profit You can invest in tools that decrease in value but, their usefulness will aid the creation of profit. Just like investing in a truck, as a truck driver, will yield profit, despite the fact that the original investment of the truck, will depreciate in value.

Re:The investor's budget?

[TheThiefMaster]

And I have a quad with 4GB of ram, so there.

I don't have as much trouble with VC updating intellisense though, instead it just claims that nothing is definined :)

Re:The investor's budget?

[BraksDad]

You save money with the new system. It will not cost you time, gas or auto maintenance taking the nightly trip from mamma's basement to the local XXX shop on the edge of town.

Re:The investor's budget?

[p0tat03]

Very good point. Monitors are *very very* important, and one of the reasons why I like MacOS more than Windows. When I'm working I have a *lot* of windows open at once, from a lot of different apps. Windows apps, being MDI-centric, tend to want to take over your entire monitor, which greatly limit the number of apps you can run in parallel. On a 30" display at work I can have IM, email, code, debugger, everything visible at once. Good luck doing that on windows... Apps are always designed with full-screen in mind, and functionality and ease of use drops off rapidly if you insist on not giving them screen real-estate.

Re:The investor's budget?

[jaminJay]

Jokes aside, if you still have an Amiga-targetted PPC card lying idle, you might get nearly as much as its outlay on eBay...

Re:The investor's budget?

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot all the chicks a top of the line Boxx workstation will get you. At least that's what the salesman told me.

Re:The investor's budget?

[kesuki]

"Are you telling me that as a computer geek, when you lay out money to purchase a computer you do not expect profit to arise from it?

I think that's a very dangerous statement. Everyone who uses their computer for work 'invests' in it. Everyone who uses their second-hand car to drive to work 'invests' in it.

It is not solely necessary for the capital expense to appreciate for it to be an investment."

first off, most people who 'work' on a pc, have one the company paid for in the office, in some cases they even have loaner laptops one can bring home... so you don't 'need' a PC at home to do work.

secondly, before 'everyone' had a car, there were these things called 'trains' that could carry people a vast distance, without having to 'invest' in the purchase of an automobile.

there are also these things called 'bicycles' they're very common methods of transit in china, and i know, you get hot and sweaty riding a bike, but there are restrooms, they have sanitary wipes made specifically for commuter bikers, and quick drying towels, and it's easy to carry a laptop and a briefcase in a good commuter bike bag.

did i mention, biking to work will help you get your vitamin d (15 minutes of sunlight per day minimum is recommended) it will help keep you in better health, and by keeping you in better health help you avoid those dreadful 'weight gain' wardrobe changes.

oh hey, and a good quality bike, all the accessories, and maintaining it will cost less than one month of using a car easily.

'investment' you call a $10,000 cash sink an investment? compared to a $300 bike? which is not just an investment in your transportation, but one in your overall health!

once you're in shape 30 miles a day is easy, the entire course of the tour de france is 2,255 miles, through some of europe's hardest mountain trails. the race takes exactly 21 days, btw that is 107 miles a day, on average the flatter sections get more miles per day than the worst of the mountain sections.

if your vehicle gets 20 MPG and you have a 12 mile commute (each way) and you work 5 days a week. at $4 a gallon that's $24 a week, just for the gas, if your vehicle lasts 6 years, at $10,000 with an average of $3,000 a year in repairs, maintenance, and insurance (a realistic value considering the price of replacement parts, and maintenance, and insurance costs) that's $90 a week, not including interest payments, so it's costing you $114 a week to drive a car to work. Vs maybe $1 a week for bicycling. Bicycles can easily last 20+ years, common replacements will be tires and breaks and lines, and adjustments to and possibly chain break, and possible seat replacement, obviously a lock and any equipment you need, like a rain slicker and snow tires if you plan to bike all season in winter regions.

let's say you own a car for say vacation driving, and grocery trips, the cost per week drops greatly, since a car only needs to be run once a week to keep from having issues, and the maintenance costs are directly proportional to your driving habits. eg: the more you drive the faster things break down.

how fast can you ride a 21-speed bike? I personally have hit 24 MPH on flat level terrain, so commuting on bike does take more time, although in gridlock, a bicycle has the advantage greatly.

if you live in the sticks, you can opt to get a horse and buggy, and grow the fodder yourself if you have enough land. horses have numerous troubles, so they're no where near as cheap as bicycling, but they're basically natures cellulostic ethanol powered vehicles.

if gas prices go up a dollar a year, the horse and buggy are going to become very popular, especially if they have Solar powered A/c units http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/08/greencore-solar-powered-air-conditioning-ac-cooling.php

Re:The investor's budget?

[rssrss]

Planned? No there is no planned obsolescence in the computer business. The progress of hardware manufacturers and software coders, and the length of the chain from production to distribution, is such that anything you can buy at retail is already obsolete.

Re:The investor's budget?

[mjwx]

What is it with dev's and monitors?

Dev's seem to be demanding new monitors every 6 months at the moment, larger monitors at that, then they need faster mice because it takes a full 20 seconds for the standard mouse to get to the other screen. We just got rid of the great CRT injury plague, as it turns out Developers who have been developing for 10+ years all of a sudden started having headaches and back problems from their CRT monitors about the same time as the first LCD's appeared in number, out of the 20 developers who asked for an LCD only two were honest about why they wanted it (more desk space) and the rest lied to me and complained to my manager and the usual conversation went
Dev: "I need a second monitor" Me: "Well that's OK, there are plenty of CRT's available if you would like a second monitor"
Dev: "If I cant have an LCD I don't want a monitor (for a laptop)"
Me: "In that case you don't need a monitor"
The problem I am now having is that the developers who complained first got the older crappier LCD's, now the patient users are getting good monitors the early whingers feel entitled to an upgrade. Also they always use the word "need" as opposed to the more accurate "want" when asking for new equipment .

Granted not all of our dev's are like this but when they are they are pretty bad (and insist on making trouble for me with my boss if I don't get them what they want, up until the point that I've told my boss if he doesn't sort it out someone else can allocate and track assets). My biggest problem is at the moment is one of the whingers who got his 19" LCD 8 months ago (against my better judgement, I don't believe in rewarding whingers) is now stealing the newer 20" LCD's from the desks of other users (and then telling the user that they need to get me to buy them a new monitor) despite the fact that I, his boss and my boss have all told him not to (his excuse for doing this is that he cant develop on a 19" monitor as the screen is too small and it's giving him headaches). In addition to this I still have at least 10 people waiting for new monitors (half of which are still using CRT's). As I said not all dev's are like this but why do some of them develop so much an entitlement complex (most can be trained out of it and only every 1 in 20 are this bad). It's my job to allocate and I wonder why the book keepers are running 17" monitors and every Developer gets a 15" laptop and at least a 19" wide, the desktop Dev machines are running dual 20" wide and the latest three machine replacements got dual 22" wide so I don't think it can be said I'm being stingy with equipment.

Bit of a rant but really want to know how I can deal with our more petulant developers.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Geno Z Heinlein]

1: It may make your work faster and more efficient.
2: It may require less maintenance than your old computer.
3: It won't, but that's not necessary; it's like asking a workman whether a new hammer would make his job any more profitable. That doesn't mean it's not an investment anyway.

Welcome to Slashdot! Let me help you by translating into the local idiom:

1: It may make your work faster and more efficient.
2: ???
3: ... profit...

Re:The investor's budget?

[andy9701]

Actually, I don't have it installed. The "updating intellisense" problem happens for most everyone on my team, so I assumed it was a Visual Studio thing. Maybe my company just buys crappy computers (I wouldn't put it past them, low end Dells FTL).

Re:The investor's budget?

[Atlantis-Rising]

...Wooosh.

Re:The investor's budget?

[mjwx]

Mac OSX is useless for multitasking, the global menu bar alone means that you can realistically only work on one app at a time. Plus its a pain to resize windows and I am yet to see a "tile windows Horizontally/Vertically" function like you get in windows (this is a great help when taking info from one program into another or when reading response messages in real-time as you make changes). lack of a task bar means I cant tell what programs I have open and if any of them require my attention (under Windows the task bar item flashes), under Mac OSX I need to alt tab or do that F11 thing to figure out what's open which takes my full attention away from what I am doing.

Mac OS X displays everything in icons with no text, it takes the human mind 2 to 5 times as long to decipher icons (pictures, hieroglyphics, etc..) than it does to read text, also icons under OS X take up more room (we gave up on hieroglyphs and started using a letter based alphabet for a good reason), lack of a proper file tree under the default file browser makes browsing for multiple files under different directories a pain (search takes longer when I already know what I am looking for). All of this increases information overload (too much information being displayed at once making it difficult to maintain attention), this kicks in under OS X long before Windows and Windows is nowhere near as efficient at displaying information as Linux (I find text based configs far more ergonomic than the GUI pop ups under Windows and OSX, the downside is that you need to know the commands and syntax). Linux has the advantage of having multiple desktops for separating out works, IM/Email client and browser in one desktop, some logs "tail -f"ing in another, text editors and terminals in the other two. Having everything on screen at once is not a good thing as this just leads to information overload, grouping work items work items increases the amount of information that can be readily accessed. After I make a change and restart a service I just move to the desktop with the logs already set up in a way that is easy to read, at this time the logs require my full attention and I don't want a IM client or browser to annoy me.

On a 30" display at work I can have IM, email, code, debugger, everything visible at once. Good luck doing that on windows.

If you have trouble doing that on windows I suggest you unplug your computer and return it to the store, IT is not for you. on a screen that size managing windows will be easy, its when you are working on a 19" is where it gets difficult (except when using multiple desktops, see the Linux point above). Every time I use OS X I get the impression it was never designed for anyone to do more than one thing at a time.

Re:The investor's budget?

[toddestan]

Windows lets you resize the windows too, which makes them effectively the same as Mac OS except that you can maximize them easily with a click of a button. I actually find Windows friendlier in this regard. Being able to resize the windows from any edge and corner is nice, and by not having the menubar stuck at the top of the primarly display makes multi-monitor setups a whole lot nicer, and saves mouseclicks as I don't have to click on the application window first before using a menu.

Re:The investor's budget?

[kesuki]

bargain basement computers often come with bargain basement hard drives, to the standard layperson a dead heard drive == a broken computer, and don't expect people on a sales floor to suggest a $20-$40 part (usable sized HD) is better than buying a $500 computer. cheapo systems also have cheapo optical drives that often crap out, and cheapo power supplies that can fry out equipment or just die prematurely.

any of these problems are easily avoided, by just spending $10-$20 more than for the 'cheapest' of the cheap, sometimes just by researching which part to buy (getting harder year by year as computers blogs get filled with adspace paid for by advertblogers), but don't expect sales floor people to even have a clue about any of this, I'm a die hard build em myself from parts ordered on the internet guy, and have been doing it since 1994.

If a system is built intelligently it will run problem free for a minimum of 4 years, the hard drive is the biggest variable and might hold on for as long as 12 years. every thing else can be bought intelligently to not have any problems other than say a fan failure.

in systems i personally built, the single biggest problem has been user error, the second biggest problem has been dust, followed by unpredictable fan quality, and lastly hard drive failure. in systems people bought without having my help, the typical problem 2-3 years down the road is a POS hdd or optical drive or power supply that dies on them. every 2-3 years something goes wrong on those consumer failure machines from the big box stores, without fail.

on systems i've personally built, the problem with HDDs is 5-8 years down the line. usually though by then the system is horribly obsolete, and mainly i run into issues with specially reconditioned linux machines, unless i buy them a new, 5 year warranty hdd, as a part of reconditioning.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think this conversation has spun down the tubes of total retardation.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Anonymous Coward]

ROFL @ Pro Gamer Business Plan

Re:The investor's budget?

[luther2.1k]

If you haven't found it already, search for 'unity build'. It's just a technique for collating cpp files into a single file but it's slashed my build times - not to the point where where I was 15 years ago with borland pascal but still, much much quicker and a hell of a lot cheaper than incredibuild (although combined with it, even better)

Re:The investor's budget?

[Vr6dub]

Basically, because the Mustang GT is just some other run of the mill piece of crap and they made a whole bunch of them (61,000). It's a decent car but by no means a collectible.

Re:The investor's budget?

[dmsuperman]

That definition fits me perfectly. I purchased my computer with the expectation of profit. I've more than covered the cost of the machine with work, and therefore am now in the profit stage. Not just work done on my computer, but the ability to research current technologies and stay ahead of the game makes you more valuable to a company. If that's not an expectation of profit I don't know what is.

Re:The investor's budget?

[aztracker1]

I couldn't say, honestly.. I'm pretty content with dual 19" monitors.. at work now, I have a single 19", and use the laptop's 17" hirez screen for a secondary display (had to lower resolution to actually read it comfortably though)... I'd be happier with a desktop and two 19's myself. I'm not too big on the difference from 19-20" as I am on say 17 to 19+... I just feel that dual displays helps a literal ton when working on apps, with code in one screen, and the test browser(s) in the other... mail/im on the other works out well too.

I think most people here aren't even aware, or at least don't take advantage of the fact their laptop and dock's display can be used at the same time... pretty much everyone in IT is assigned laptops, for me, would rather have a desktop that costs less, with two good sized screens... the displays and the memory are primary to me... Even a lower-end dual core CPU is more than enough for me as to performance. Some will have different priorities though.

For me, the room to get stuff done is of primary concern. I can't stand using laptops for development.. a single, small screen is too difficult, at least for me.

Re:The investor's budget?

[aztracker1]

I usually price out lower-end workstation machines, as opposed to lower-mid desktops for the reasons you cite.. just the same for $450-600 you can get a decent machine... as to my use.. with SVN on a good server, and with good backups (at least in a business environment) a down drive can be mitigated.. as to PSUs, totally agree here.. but with what you can now get for 33% increase in price for a
Me, my current home office desktop was put together a year and a half ago for around $2200, my desktop before that was about 4 years prior for closer to $3k.. 3 years before that was just above $3k... I honestly don't see a need to upgrade again any time soon, as I don't play games... I bought a wind desktop a few weeks ago to play with it.. honestly it does pretty much anything I could see a general user need from a computer. It doesn't have enough horsepower for 1080p video, but that isn't a general use need. for $250 on the computer, and a decent 22" monitor, you are out $500 for enough computer for general use for the foreseeable future... I recall the 640K of ram should be enough comments, but it really is at a point where even the cheapest new desktops are enough for general use for at least the next 4-5 years... Though, imho an 8yo 1ghz+ system with at least a gb of ram is probably enough for general use...

Re:The investor's budget?

[DuckDodgers]

My workstation at work is a 2.8 GHz P4 and 1.5 GB of RAM, with a 17 inch monitor.

I spend a lot of time waiting for a CVS update to finish, or a copy of the build tree to move, or a clean rebuild, or a database to start, or a complex database query to run, or the webserver to restart, or Excel to open, or an email search to finish, etc... etc... And the relatively small single monitor setup means I'm constantly swapping windows, minimizing things to desktop, or scrolling my file views to the right to find what I need. We use 50 MB test databases for testing the software, and constantly moving the files around and waiting for them to copy from network shares and even on the disk gets tedious quickly. If I'm working on enough different tasks at the same time, the operating system has to start using the swapfile and things slow to a crawl.

Every time I have to wait, it's a few seconds lost. And in many cases, I get sick of waiting and Alt-Tab over to Slashdot (like now). Even more time is lost.

They pay me better than $30 per hour, it's absurd that they aren't willing to spend maybe $1000 on a new workstation and monitor to let me work much faster.

Depending upon what you're doing on your IDE, your setup may be fine. I love my job and like my boss and coworkers, but my slow workstation drives me crazy.

Re:The investor's budget?

[kalirion]

Yes. An investment in fun.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Fulcrum of Evil]

eck, you don't even have to go back 100 years to find cars where the value has increased because of its nostalgic or rarity value.

Heh, yeah, but this ain't a Corvette Stingray or a 993 porsche 911. Hell, it can't even outrun a WRX.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Anonymous Coward]

You pay $80k a year for a developer, and yet you can't find $500 of budget to get him a pair of 22" flat panels (something he has to stare at all day long for his entire job)? Sounds like your company has severe problems with expense priorities.

Re:The investor's budget?

[gobbo]

Mac OSX is useless for multitasking, the global menu bar alone means that you can realistically only work on one app at a time.

What a strange comment! Switching apps is command-tab, and background tasks are usually well managed. The mac users I support usually have many apps open at once; the windows users tend to close applications to switch.

Plus its a pain to resize windows and I am yet to see a "tile windows Horizontally/Vertically" function like you get in windows (this is a great help when taking info from one program into another or when reading response messages in real-time as you make changes). lack of a task bar means I cant tell what programs I have open and if any of them require my attention (under Windows the task bar item flashes), under Mac OSX I need to alt tab or do that F11 thing to figure out what's open which takes my full attention away from what I am doing.

This just points out that you haven't learnt the basics of Mac OS. One keystroke to reveal all windows, or all windows in current app, or the desktop; the dock takes care of tracking running apps and notifications. If you haven't done the basics, you lack credibility. While I like Windows' resizing from any side, I constantly regret the lack of intelligent zooming or snap-to-content.

Mac OS X displays everything in icons with no text,

That's a troll, because it's false.

Most of the rest of your comments are inaccurate or inexperienced, as well, including the following:

If you have trouble doing that on windows I suggest you unplug your computer and return it to the store, IT is not for you. on a screen that size managing windows will be easy, its when you are working on a 19" is where it gets difficult (except when using multiple desktops, see the Linux point above). Every time I use OS X I get the impression it was never designed for anyone to do more than one thing at a time.

If you've ever tried to use a multi-windowed app like Premiere in Windows, and span multiple monitors, then you'll know that it is just hair-pullingly agonizing compared to similar apps on a Mac. It just doesn't work well on so many levels.

With many ways to switch and manage apps and windows, the paradigm of interleaved windows, and easy management of multiple monitors of various sizes, multitasking is as easy as linux, or better, and far better than windows. While there are many things that bug me about the Mac OS, including the Finder and the Dock, general multitasking is not one of them.

Re:The investor's budget?

[mjwx]

You pay $80k a year for a developer, and yet you can't find $500 of budget to get him a pair of 22" flat panels

This is exactly the kind of entitlement mentality I'm talking about.

We pay 80K a year for a CPA (accountant) and she runs a 17" LCD. the big difference is that 1. she doesn't complain about it and 2. Actually appreciates when I get new equipment for her. Also, this developer does not get paid 80K a year (oddly enough the 80K dev's in my organisation don't have the entitlement mentality)

Now the problem with your logic is that it fails to account for the fact that he just got a $300 worth of monitors and $2000 worth of laptop 6 months ago. So based on that schedule that I should find $500 (try A$700) for new flat panel monitors every 6 months that increases the overhead (times 20 devs) A$28K a year. All this while I have 4 other GIS analysts don't have a second monitor and could actually use a decent 22" (granted for GIS, if you don't buy good monitors you really are just pissing money away).

Sounds like your company has severe problems with expense priorities.

You fail at economics. Please go back and learn about overheads.

Re:The investor's budget?

[Fulcrum of Evil]

it's like asking a workman whether a new hammer would make his job any more profitable. That doesn't mean it's not an investment anyway.

No, the fact that a hammer is a capital expense is why it isn't an investment. buying shares in his construction company is an investment.

Re:The investor's budget?

[alaskanewb]

srry if this is the wrong part but my browzer keeps sayin it aint able to load this page if im not quick to load ANY reply, the main forum page would fail to load after 80%, am a total newb for pcs, having lived in a small villiage in alaska and a console slave my whole life, i finally decided to switch to pc, and was wonderin if any of you would help/recommend a nice pc set up for me, again i only kno the basics of pcs....any help would be fine and again sorry if im postin this in the wrong area

Re:The investor's budget?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Your comment should not have been modded troll.

Re:The investor's budget?

[gobbo]

Your comment should not have been modded troll.

Thank you. It was a sincere comment based on 25 years experience working in multiple platforms; mod-trolls are on the loose.

$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Anonymous Coward]

Only a fool would spend that much money on something that will cost 1/3 that in 18 months.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[jgarra23]

Don't forget, you're talking about the same kind of people who will spend months clacking away on a fake guitar with the goal of making a digital crowd cheer when they could be practicing with a REAL guitar, get REAL cheers and likely get laid for REAL too.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Anonymous Coward]

and likely get laid for REAL too

Holy shit, I'm buying a guitar right fucking now!

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[CambodiaSam]

There are a LOT of people out there willing to shell out vast sums of money on things that will evaporate in value. Just take a look at the entire luxury and exotic car segments. Everyone knows that cars drop 20% per year in value, but they keep rolling off the line.

Admit it, if you had US $10k lying around with nothing better to do, you would be salivating over the FedEx Next Day Tracking Number. I know I would.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[turgid]

Sarcasm aside, it works. Trust me. When I was 16 I put my computers aside and bought a bass guitar.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Xtravar]

Not only that, but there are barely any bleeding-edge PC games that are worth playing.

I have a fairly awesome rig that I could use for gaming, but nothing really makes me want to go to the hassle of booting to Windows. Most fun (older) games run fine under Wine and/or VMWare.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet...here you are posting about it on Slashdot.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[larry bagina]

I do have $10k lying around with nothing better to do, you insensitive clod.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[the_humeister]

Actually exotic cars hold their value very well.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Naqamel]

I'll second what Turgid said. Guitar = Chick Magnet.

I was at a Sam Goody store which happened to have a Guitar Hero game set up. It also had a guitar / amp package they were selling set up. Crappy guitar, worse amp... but whatever.

Some dork was trying to play Guitar Hero and impress 3 girls. Song: Bark at the Moon.

So I pick up the real guitar, and start playing Bark at the Moon on the real guitar.

You've never seen three heads whip around like that. Poor guy. I got all his attention.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Grey Ninja]

Just like you can spend months clacking away on a mouse when you can join the REAL army, and kill REAL people right?

Or spinning a plastic wheel and driving 200km/h when you can be REALLY going that fast in a REAL car, right?

I learned to play Guitar Hero fairly well over the course of a week. I've been playing real guitar for about 4 or 5 months now. I can play most Rock Band songs on expert, and I can play most of Neil Young's Heart of Gold on real guitar.

There's a very large difference between a video game and a musical instrument. A video game can be learned quickly and easily, without a huge time commitment. An instrument takes years to learn how to play. Now in my case, I also thought my hands were too small to play guitar, but Guitar Hero convinced me that I might be able to do it. I don't think I'll ever be able to play an F chord, but I can play a lot of songs anyway. I'm good at Guitar Hero/Rock Band. I'll likely never be as good at real guitar.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[45mm]

It's called a "business write-off" ... what better way to afford expensive things AND avoid paying taxes on the income used to buy them?

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[flitty]

I bet you also go into guitar stores and crank a Jackson guitar plugged into a Line 6 amp and shredd on some other 80's metal solo, wondering how long it will be before you "impress" the staff.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not sure if you meant to, but you some off as petty and jealous, flitty.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Opportunist]

The learning curve is way steeper with the real instrument, no questions there. When you play some easy level song, where you have to click just a note every now and then to create some chords, it sure is easier than trying to figure out where all those fingers go on that instrument. And then striking the chord just right, too!

But then again, when I look at the time some people spend on those games, where weeks turn into months of them playing for hours, I start to wonder whether in the long run, they couldn't have learned the real instrument in almost the same time they need to master one of those super nasty hardcore badass songs in the game.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[TheLink]

Some even gain value.

1) There are very few of them made, they are luxury and collector items
2) People who collect lots of money tend to collect stuff as well, and some of them choose to collect cars.

So if someone else ever totally destroys their car, the other cars become more valuable.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[c_jonescc]

"I'm actually trying to sleep with your girlfriend" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dyeHESSjQM

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know; I played guitar in college and I'm still a virgin...

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[jollyreaper]

Don't forget, you're talking about the same kind of people who will spend months clacking away on a fake guitar with the goal of making a digital crowd cheer when they could be practicing with a REAL guitar, get REAL cheers and likely get laid for REAL too.

Funny you should mention that, they're working on Masturbation Hero. You'll get a load out of the controller for that game.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[tnk1]

I'm actually going to look at this article to see what will be reasonably high performance and more realistically priced when I am next planning on building a machine in Q2 2009.

Last time I was trying for the very top end, I got stuck firmly in a niche which caused me to have a top end board with an AGP slot when everything was just about to go PCI-E. Its amazing what two or three months of waiting will do. In my case, it actually caused me to upgrade my machine less than I would have, because I didn't want a new motherboard and I saw no point in buying new graphics card if I was only going to plug them into a slower AGP slot.

This time, I'll be watching what is top end now, looking to see what shakes out and have a system that may not be the very top end, but will have a better price and be more likely to be upgradeable over shorter time increments after I buy the original parts. Obviously, a lot of this scrutiny will go towards evaluating motherboards (and by extension CPUs and memory) because replacing one is the worst hassle in upgrades.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Danathar]

Or somebody SO incredibly rich that NOT spending the money is more foolish.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Scarletdown]

Some dork was trying to play Guitar Hero and impress 3 girls. Song: Bark at the Moon.

So I pick up the real guitar, and start playing Bark at the Moon on the real guitar.

You've never seen three heads whip around like that. Poor guy. I got all his attention.

Did you get laid in a foursome with those three girls that night?

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Naqamel]

Nah, I'm happily married. Wife thought it was hilarious when I did that, too.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Opportunist]

Umm... what games run fine in Wine? I just can't get them to play nicely, so either I'm trying the wrong games or I just don't know what miracle I have to work to make them run.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Scarletdown]

Ah. coulda had a fivesome then. :)

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Anonymous Coward]

A salary well in to the six figures and a giant retirement fund will get you even more chicks. I'll take my geeky computers over a "real" guitar any day.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[afabbro]

I can play most of Neil Young's Heart of Gold on real guitar.

That's the kind of risk you take when you decide to learn to play guitar.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Naqamel]

A salary well in to the six figures and a giant retirement fund will get you even more chicks. I'll take my geeky computers over a "real" guitar any day.

Who says it's mutually exclusive?

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[tyrantking31]

Right, but it is $10K US, so not nearly as much as it sounds.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[turgid]

The last time I played a Jackson (and an Ibanez) in a guitar shop, I played an eightsome reel. (Well, at least I tried.)

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[UncleTogie]

A salary well in to the six figures and a giant retirement fund will get you even more chicks. I'll take my geeky computers over a "real" guitar any day.

...and usually a higher class of female, too.

I worked with a number of bands {mostly local, a few national} as crew. Would you REALLY want a chick that shags anyone with an instrument?? It's a great way to catch diseases, especially if she gets passed around the band. Trust me, looking for a discrete doctor for your band will take all the fun out of it.

Been there, done that... and thank God for penicillin!

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm working on casting real fireballs instead of just playing World of Warcraft. It may take a while.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[schklerg]

In my experience (bass player), girls go in this order - singer, lead guitar, drums, backup guitar, keyboards, triangle, roadie, drunk passed out fan, then bassist. Of course, hideous disfigurations can alter this order.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[FreonTrip]

Nah, I've got two systems built on low-cost Core 2 Duos already - one for work, one for play, both built largely from scavenged or old parts. Both are hilariously fast by my standards, and barring catastrophic equipment failure I don't foresee myself buying or wanting a new PC in at least the next five years. If I got a tax-free check for $10,000 right now I'd pay off my student loans and throw the rest at my car note. Simple as that.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[KGIII]

Practice your E-shape Grand Barre chords, an Fm7th is pretty much similar enough so you can fudge it in most cases.

While doing so practice just getting clean tones from the F chord. When you get good fingering down you can then work on SLOWLY moving to a different chord. You might as well learn the B chord while you're at it. It takes a lot of practice but eventually you'll get your fingers to remember.

Many of Young's songs rely heavily on the Em, Am, D, and G chords as do many other musicians. Toss in a C and learn the majors and you'll be all set.

As for scales, learn the Pentatonic Minor and you'll be a blues musician in a few years. :)

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Kingrames]

"Or spinning a plastic wheel and driving 200km/h when you can be REALLY going that fast in a REAL car, right?"

where?

and how long would it take to drive there?
And how much traffic would you run into along the way?
And what's the weather like there?

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Anonymous Coward]

Play it like a Fmaj7, but fret the 1st string on the 1st fret too.

If you can cover strings 1 and 2 with 1 finger, then it's really no different than a C chord.

Offtopic?... SO WHAT.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Prefader]

http://appdb.winehq.org/
Most of the apps listed in the "top 10" lists on that page are games.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[turgid]

Well, in my case, she really fancied the rythm guitarist, but he was spoken for. The drummer was a "session." The "singer" couldn't and was a soap dodger (once boasted of going 5 weeks without a shower and 3 without deodorant) and the lead guitarist had a mullet and whacky shorts.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Anonymous Coward]

The 'fools clacking away on fake guitars' (I'm one of them, by the way) probably don't intersect with the '$10k to spend on gaming PCs every two years' much.

Also I think you conflated dreams of stardom, musical careers, artistic hobbies and videogame entertainment into one big ball of nonsense.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Darby]

Now in my case, I also thought my hands were too small to play guitar, but Guitar Hero convinced me that I might be able to do it.

Heck, dude, just look here for all the convincing you need that big hands aren't required.

I don't think I'll ever be able to play an F chord

Sure you will.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Grey Ninja]

Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely try fudging the F chords at some point, but right now I prefer to just play songs that don't use them. And I did recognize that Neil Young tends to use the same 5 chords over and over. That's why I decided to start learning his stuff for my first songs.

I did a lot of practice on the basic Em, Am, D, C, and G chords, and I can do them fairly regularly, but I've been neglecting my practice recently and just been playing some easy tabs (mostly ACDC and Nirvana).

I haven't started my scales yet, but I do have a lot of interest in learning the blues. So maybe today is the day that I'll start.

Anyway, thanks again for the advice. I just wanted you to know that it's not on deaf ears. I really do want to learn.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[j79zlr]

How can something so sad also be so hilarious?

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[GameboyRMH]

That's why I've lost interest in PC gaming. There's maybe one good game out every year. I used to keep a bleeding-edge gaming rig but now I don't bother. It doesn't help that you basically need Windows and between the horrors of Vista, the increasingly vicious DRM in XP, and the stunning ease of use, resilience and versatility of Ubuntu, running Windows is less appealing than ever before. It's a big waste when I can pick up a DS for less than the cost of a bleeding-edge memory module and get a good selection of quality games with only very basic copy protection that doesn't get in my way (cartridges are so tough and reliable there's no need for backups)...but PC gaming isn't a big waste of money as hobbies go. It's a total steal compared to golf, partying, or pretty much anything involving any sort of vehicle.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[kent_eh]

When started teaching myself guitar, I discovered a site called Guitarnoise, which helped me immensely, both with their lessons, and Q&A on the forums.
The sort of advise you just got from KGIII (which is very good advice, BTW) is typical of what you find in the Guitarnoise forums.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[CambodiaSam]

I'm certain that's true for some of the ultra high end exotics, but most vehicles aren't that elite. Take the Audi S8 for example. That's a pretty rare automobile, luxurious, and fast. The base price is about $75k. An "I'm Feeling Lucky" Google search found that it would be average to shed about $24k after the first year. Sure, it's hardly a comprehensive analysis, but I'm betting this is more the norm than the exception.

So reconsidering the analogy to the high end PC market, would you expect to find any rock-star Pentium II rigs that would still fetch the same price as the build cost? Even with the Voodoo graphics card and stickers from the local internet startup companies?

And for the record, I would STILL buy the S8.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Grey Ninja]

Well, my car actually maxes out at 188 km/h, but point taken. But I still don't think it's a great idea on most roads.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[KGIII]

I have been at it for about twenty years now including some time giving lessons. When I was much younger I went to UMA and majored in Drinking and minored in Failing but my real major was Music Theory and I minored in Improvisational Jazz Guitar. Needless to say, I only lasted a few semesters.

I typically recommend people learning tabliture later in their educational process as it is a flawed way to learn. Learning to read tab means you're not learning how to play but, rather, that you're learning what to play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb5_DEhmDAM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-c66SJPuUI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByGsHTlKmWk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foXSXOAfB4U

Merry Christmas. Now go put that stuff away and learn some guitar. ;)

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Grey Ninja]

I just clicked on the link, then realized I had already been there for the Horse With No Name tutorial. Picking is definitely one of my weak points right now, and that song is all strumming, so I like to try different things with it. That site really helped me a lot with my picking and timing. I'll definitely check it out in more detail. Thanks.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Grey Ninja]

Understood about the tabs. I've actually been considering taking some night classes at UBC in music theory and strings next year (or semester if I can get in). I really regret not taking music when I was actually in school. I pretty much stuck to the hard sciences. And now I want to go back, since I feel that I really missed out.

I feel like the tabs (and I know you don't want to hear this... but Rock Band as well) all have common elements, and there is some universal equation behind it all. But exactly what it is eludes me, because I am just playing what I am being told to play, rather than actually knowing what it is that I'm playing.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[ari_j]

You're right, I'd much rather have a girl who is sleeping with me for my money instead of because she's attracted to my talent.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Anonymous Coward]

Been there, done that... and thank God for penicillin!

Penicillin doesn't cure AIDS. Bag it and get on with it!

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Anonymous Coward]

4 or 5 months. . .but obviously you haven't practiced as regularly as you practiced Guitar Hero in those couple of weeks because as guitarist I can tell you that guitar is much easier than GH on expert. I can only play GH on hard and I work in a store that's had GH hooked up for like 2 yrs. As far as finger technique, guitar is much easier unless you're intentionally looking for the most grueling songs. Arpeggios are where GH gets really tough, because on guitar you just hold your left hand in one position and alternate notes with the right - the game makes you do all the movement with the left.

Thanks to chords and little tricks with scales, I can play guitar for hours without exhausting my hands. GH takes it out of me, playing on hard, in about 45 minutes. My favorite thing about GH is that it strengthens my hands at work when I can't play real guitar. I'd never pay for the game though.

Anyway, your other comparisons - joining the army/driving real Ferraris - that's very fallacious considering that joining the army consumes your whole life and only millionaires can afford the cars you drive in video games (and stuff like Burnout is impossible). Playing guitar is something that anyone who can play Guitar Hero on expert could be able to do had they devoted the same time and energy into the instrument. The only tricky thing about music is theory, of which most guitarists know very little.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[ACMENEWSLLC]

Dude, I bought several acoustic and electric guitar's and have them hanging on the wall, but what you said never happened.

On that topic, why is that Cisco IDS I bought not keeping hackers off my network? I mean, I paid the money and I have it sitting under my desk (unopened) and it's not working!?!

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess he probably still got some, given it probably made his wife excited to know other women wanted him, even if they where 13 years old.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[KGIII]

Tabs and the music games give you immediate gratification (or nearly) without investing the time and effort into the actual process of greater learning, or that's what I suspect it is in most people's cases.

I don't have a good analogy but when I was giving lessons I would usually insist that they tune their guitar to itself and by ear rather than using a tuner. Later, when they got the fundimentals mastered, a tuner was a welcomed piece of equipment.

The learning of tuning means that they know why it is EADGBE, that they understand (fully) what a full step is and what a half step is, and have the knowledge of where those steps belong.

I have a low opinion of the music education in most public schools. Very few of them encourage composition, skip the majority of the theories, and are akin to the way that maths are tought in school. The how, without the why, is not important. Knowing *how* to play a few songs (on any instrument) does not a musician make. Which is, of course, fine if all one wants to know is how to play a few songs, impress some friends, or maybe have a light hobby.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Grey Ninja]

Unfortunately, my sense of pitch isn't that great, so I need a tuner to tune one string. But after that string is tuned, I can tune the rest by ear. (In the process of learning that, I also found that my tuner does a shoddy job, so I've started second guessing it).

But there was one song I was playing, where the tab had a lot of stuff being done on one string, and there was one note in particular that was much lower on the neck than the others, which made it hard to play. I realized that I could play the note much easier on the string next to it, since I realized that from tuning the guitar, the note should have a direct correlation on that string. And I was right. And it was much easier to play that way.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Grey Ninja]

You are exactly right of course. I try to play at least half an hour of guitar every day, but there's been often long spells where I can't do that. Such as a 2 month contract gig that I did in Austin, and I couldn't bring my guitar.

And honestly, it's much harder on the hands playing real guitar, and it took a while to build up callouses that could handle playing much longer than a half hour.

Lately, I've been moving around a great deal, and I've been lazy. But I'm trying to get back into the groove again of at least 30 minutes per day.

But it's really hard to compete with the instant gratification of Rock Band. But I do intend to be able to play half decently after a year.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[fm6]

No, that's Australian dollars. A mere 8700 US. Anyway, I think the third machine is meant to be pure fantasy, as in "What you would buy if you totally didn't give a shit about money?" So they use DDR3 memory, though I doubt that it would provide much of a performance gain on a gaming system. And they put in a Blu-Ray burner; simply because it's the most expensive optical drive you can buy.

On the other hand, a good chunk of the cost is that 4-GPU video adapter. I'm not enough of a gamer to know whether there are actually any games that would benefit from that much processing power. But if there is, and you really enjoy gaming, the Moore's Law argument doesn't apply. Any new computer will lose most of its value in 18 months. So your investment is going to be wiped out no matter how much you spend.

If that bothers you, you should never buy new systems at all. There's some serious used hardware out there unbelievably cheap. I recently bought my sister an off-lease Optiplex. This beast was not only old, it was not considered a high-performance system when it was made. Yet it has a fairly powerful GPU and is a respectable graphics workstation. Probably not suitable for a FPS, but I'll bet I could look at any of the rigs in TFA, and come up with recycled hardware that would be half as powerful for 1/10 the cost. But of course serious gamers are will to spend the extra 90% to get that extra 50% performance — even though whatever they buy will lose most of its value very quickly.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Anonymous Coward]

They make guitars for people with small hands. Try something with a slender neck like a Fender Statocaster or Fender Telecaster, or a Rickenbacker. If you play acoustic guitar then look for something with a lighter action, so you won't have to fret the strings so hard.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[UncleTogie]

Penicillin doesn't cure AIDS. Bag it and get on with it!

...said the band member with crotch crickets...

Me, I'm not keen enough on getting laid that I'll trust my life SOLELY to a condom manufacturer...

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[diesel66]

..they're working on Masturbation Hero. You'll get a load out of the controller for that game.

I don't think the goal is to get a load out of the controller...

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[nEoN nOoDlE]

Funny you should mention that, they're working on Masturbation Hero.

I've been beta testing that one for years.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Posting=!Working]

You don't have enough bass playing experience. It actually goes drummer, singer, drummer again, lead guitar, drummer, drummer, rhythm guitar, drummer, drummer fucks lead guitarist girlfriend, drummer, new lead guitar player, drummer, keyboards, drummer, guy in crowd whose only dance move is to bend both knees slightly almost in time with the music, drummer, drummer, barstool, then, finally, the bassist's friend who's in town just for the night with the girl that the bass player has been working on for a month.

The only reason the last one hasn't happened to me is that I don't have any out of town friends who come visit. My favorite attempted pick up line between sets:
"What do you think of the band?"
"They're good. Do you know them?"
"Yeah, I'm the guy on the left."
"What, dancing?"
"No, I'm in the band."
"When do you get to play?"

Bass guitars are invisibility cloaks.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[crossmr]

She isn't attracted to your talent. She's attracted to you for the money/fame you might get..
it is no different.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Man Eating Duck]

I did a lot of practice on the basic Em, Am, D, C, and G chords, and I can do them fairly regularly

Those are necessary, but I'd advice you strongly to learn the different Barre chords as well. When you know them well you can play practically any chord by transposing the base chord.

I've been playing on and off for 18 years. My nemesis in the beginning was the A-shape Barre, my fingers are simply too short and stubby. I could bend them far enough, but another trick is to transpose an E-shape Barre five bands upwards for speed and precision. This is technically the same chord, and it will sound similar enough to save you in most circumstances.

Good luck, and don't give up! My guitars have given me countless hours of enjoyment and comfort, even though I mostly play alone. I still play almost every day.

When you get to the level where you can pick up almost any song in a few minutes, which won't take all that long if you dedicate a small amount of time every day, you'll be very grateful for having learnt it.

If you can get your hands on a cheap amp and an electric guitar after having learnt the basics, that'll open up a whole new world for you. Most power chords are relatively simple, and you'll feel like you're on top of the world while playing along with your favourite rock artist. It beats Guitar Hero by a long shot :)

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[VampBoy]

I don't know if you can find them now, but Asrock put out some true AGP & PCI-E slotted motherboards. When I say "true", it's not like it was running over the PCI bus like ECS's AGP/PCI-E boards.
I picked up the 939-DualSata2 back when I picked up an Opteron a few years ago. Still have a 6800 AGP in it and the option to make it AM2 socketed if I want. Might want to look at what else Asrock offers if you want to squeeze a little more life out of old hardware, but want an upgrade path.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[KGIII]

Lest we end up off-topic my email is kgiii *at* kgiii *dot* info if you'd like to carry the conversation on.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[p0tat03]

could be practicing with a REAL guitar, get REAL cheers and likely get laid for REAL too.

The awesome part is that I play with a FAKE guitar, get FAKE cheers in Rock Band, and get laid for REAL too :) Sometimes at the same time :D When the gf's got a competitive streak, and wants you to lose on expert...

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[ucblockhead]

I have no time to learn a real guitar and since I'm married, I'm not supposed to be trying to get laid, so I suppose I'll continue having fun clacking away on the fake guitar.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[MojoStan]

Many of Young's songs rely heavily on the Em, Am, D, and G chords as do many other musicians. Toss in a C and learn the majors and you'll be all set.

As for scales, learn the Pentatonic Minor and you'll be a blues musician in a few years. :)

And I did recognize that Neil Young tends to use the same 5 chords over and over. That's why I decided to start learning his stuff for my first songs.

I did a lot of practice on the basic Em, Am, D, C, and G chords, and I can do them fairly regularly, but I've been neglecting my practice recently and just been playing some easy tabs (mostly ACDC and Nirvana).

I haven't started my scales yet, but I do have a lot of interest in learning the blues. So maybe today is the day that I'll start.

The E minor or G major pentatonic scale (same notes, different start/end points) is used in many songs that use those easy chords you learned. Learn this scale at the end of the guitar neck (half the notes will be open strings), then you'll see how easy it is to switch from note-picking to chord-strumming and back.

Since this scale is so easy and popular, you should be able to figure out some songs by ear (or get very close). Seriously, you should have little problem approximating the intro to Led Zeppelin's "Over the Hills and Far Away" (G major pentatonic scale, easy chords). Another relatively easy one is Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here" (G major pentatonic, easy chords).

Of course, if you learn those songs by ear, you won't play them exactly how they're "supposed" to be played (check the tabs later), but I think it's a great way to apply a scale you've just learned.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm. Anybody else notice he omitted the part about getting laid for REAL too?

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[bitrex]

If you have small hands and are currently playing a Strat-style guitar, you might want to consider a a guitar with a shorter scale length, such as a Les Paul-style or a Fender Jag-Stang. It'll make fretting that F barre chord much easier.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Anonymous Coward]

Except there is one huge difference. Joining the military or driving a car at high speeds involve danger and death. Playing a guitar does not.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[ari_j]

Not really, not. She's attracted to something she's interested in. There's a difference between a groupie and a fan.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[ari_j]

She's also attracted to my extra T's. There I go, not proofreading myself again. :P

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Anonymous Coward]

Golddiggers and rich women can be whores too. I don't know where you get the idea that a "higher class" of woman is any less likely to have a disease.

Personally I'd rather trust a condom manufacturer and have a fun life than wait years to find the one woman who is willing to give me a doctor's bill of health before having sex.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[UncleTogie]

Golddiggers and rich women can be whores too.

...but they're less likely to be, and you usually won't find them after the band... I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but when's the last time you saw a celeb with a S.O. in a band that WASN'T signed?

I don't know where you get the idea that a "higher class" of woman is any less likely to have a disease.

Maybe 'cause bar-flys are a LOT more likely to have impaired judgement than the sober...

Personally I'd rather trust a condom manufacturer and have a fun life than wait years to find the one woman who is willing to give me a doctor's bill of health before having sex.

Considering this, [check the failure rates] you're telling me that you'll risk infection rather than have a g/f that can afford a doctor's bill. Lovely.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Grey Ninja]

I just spent about an hour on various pentatonic scales. And you're right. They are indeed very good things to know. I haven't got Wish You Were Here down yet, but I can definitely see that it was derived from that scale. Seriously, thanks.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Opportunist]

Hmmm... judging from the list, containing mainly online games and small studio games, my guess is that the main problem resides with copy protection that's dependent on some sort of custom CD driver.

I do kinda wonder whether ... erhm ... "bypassing" that copy protection would solve the problem...

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can play most of Neil Young's Heart of Gold on real guitar.

Mr. Young only spent about "4 or 5 months" learning to play guitar himself...

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Anonymous Coward]

buy a smaller guitar. no joke. now go master that F chord!

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Fulcrum of Evil]

Would you REALLY want a chick that shags anyone with an instrument??

No, I want the rocket scientist who gets hot for guitars.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Fulcrum of Evil]

An S8 is not exotic, it's the high end of Audi's normal line. The RS4 could be considered an exotic, as could the Lotus Elise. The Porsche 911 is a good example of an exotic - fast, expensive, and good resale. It also runs reliably, which is almost enough to kick it out of the category.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Abreu]

If you are coming from that direction, you might want to look at the Fretlight guitar...

(too lazy to look up the link, but I trust you can google it yourself)

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, you are simply lost. With your ignorance, I must bid you good luck in life. You'll need it.

Re:$10K US for a gaming rig?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm keen enough on getting laid that I don't give a crap if I die of AIDS.

Very useful guides

[ubrgeek]

I used one of their last ones to build a middle-of-the-road gaming machine. I'd never built a box before (well, other than a headless fileserver) and the parts they recommended were almost all available on Newegg. I read/used the article around 3-4 months after it first came out so the parts they had in the article were actually a bit below what they had them listed as. All-in-all it was an interesting experience and the box turned out really well (in terms of gaming.) Being a Mac guy it gave me a chance to try some games I'd otherwise not be able to play and the performance is at least as good (if not better) than I had expected.

Re:Very useful guides

[IndustrialComplex]

I was intending to build a semi-headless fileserver/media center (the display was my HDTV) and intended to spend no more than $500. I did get it done for $400 with minor part reuse (keyboard/mouse/CD drive) but spent a large part of it on RAM and a moderate quality video card. I've been able to run most games on it at 1920x1080 resolution with no graphics issues. I've been trying the warhammer beta on it with no major issues either. I just can't see what a 10k system could get you. Above 800-1000 with today's tech will definately start to see diminishing returns at a FAST pace.

Re:Very useful guides

[AuMatar]

No, these are horrible horrible guides. Even arstechnica has better ones. I mean really- A $9000 computer? How about a high priced one people would actually buy- something in the mid to upper 2000 range.

And their budget gaming box? $1000 with no monitor? That's one hell of an overpriced rig. The idea of budget is maximum bang for buck, not lets get as close to a certain dollar figure as possible. I just put together a true budget gaming rig for about 60% of that. Here, I'll share the details:

CPU: E7200- $125. Intel introduced this model to compete with the AMD triple core offerings. Its a dual core, but with single core performance greater than AMDs triple core offering. Stock at 2.5 GHz, easily overclockable to 3.0 with reports of 3.5. I can confirm no problems at 3.0 with stock cooling and some room to grow.

Mobo: Quite frankly anything in the $100 range is good enough. I went with a gigabyte EP43 for $90

Ram: 3 GB if you want to go with a 32 bit OS. 4 GB otherwise. About $100

GPU: BFG Nvidia 9600GT. SLI is not worth it, its broken on many games and it makes a minor performance increase when it does. Going for a 9800 isn't worth it, the extra price is far more than the extra performance. $130

PSU: Any 450W ps will work. I went slightly upscale to 600W expecting it to last me 2-3 computers, but 450 is good enough. About $50. Their $60 suggestion is fine, if you like the brand the trust is worth $10

Case: 25 bucks will get you a decent case. They overpaid.

Hard drive: Unless you need the space, a 250GB drive goes for 60. Save yourself 30 bucks on space you're unlikely to use. And truthfully if you do need it in a year or two, buy it then when it's cheaper.

optical drive: $30 is about right.

total: $615, almost 40% less than their budget box

This computer, despite being 40% less, will get within 10% of their performance. The real sad thing is the people who buy the $2K box. In 2 years, you'll be feeling slow. So buy this now for $600, and replace with a new $600 (or less, save the case, optical drive, hard drive and PSU if you can) computer every 2 years. He'll be replacing his in 4 years tops (probably 3, lets face it his type want to stay at the top of the spec list). You'll have a slightly less powerful computer than him for a while (probably a more powerful one for the last 2 years of his box) and save an assload of cash to boot.

Its just not worth buying top level power that will be half price in 6 months. Go for best bang/buck, and replace every 2-3 years.

optical: their choice is fine, $30

Re:Very useful guides

[tepples]

[I built a media PC.] I've been able to run most games on it at 1920x1080 resolution with no graphics issues.

Right, but most PC games won't let you split the screen, nor are they designed like Bomberman so that you don't need to. This means they need one PC per player. What do you do when one of your friends who is visiting your home wants to play a video game with you? Or when you babysit children in the family?

Re:Very useful guides

[brunascle]

SLI is not worth it, its broken on many games and it makes a minor performance increase when it does. Going for a 9800 isn't worth it, the extra price is far more than the extra performance. $130

Not true. As Tech Report's review shows, an SLI 9600GT consistently gets roughly 75% more FPS than a single in COD4, Quake Wars, Half Life episode 2, and UT3. The only game they tested that didnt have a significant increase was Crysis at 1280x800, but at 1680x1050 it had almost a 50% increase.

An SLI 9600GT is amazing performance for the price.

Re:Very useful guides

[Fross]

CPU: E7200- $125. Intel introduced this model to compete with the AMD triple core offerings. Its a dual core, but with single core performance greater than AMDs triple core offering. Stock at 2.5 GHz, easily overclockable to 3.0 with reports of 3.5. I can confirm no problems at 3.0 with stock cooling and some room to grow.

Case: 25 bucks will get you a decent case. They overpaid.

If you're going to be overclocking, you'd best get a decent case where you can at least attach a few fans.

GPU: BFG Nvidia 9600GT. SLI is not worth it, its broken on many games and it makes a minor performance increase when it does. Going for a 9800 isn't worth it, the extra price is far more than the extra performance. $130

Got to disagree strongly here. The 9600 has gimped stream processors, just 64 compared to 112 on the 9800. On "easy" benchmarks they will be comparable, but once it starts ramping up, the 9600 will fall very quickly. For instance, a friend of mine on his 8600 plays WoW fine, same as me (8800). In AoC, I get about 40 fps, he gets 15 if that. 9600 simply doesn't cut it for high-end present-day gaming, let alone future. The 512M 9800GT is about the same price as the 9600 (£85 vs £80 on my usual site) and performs better. Hell the good 9800 GTXs start at only £110.

Re:Very useful guides

[AuMatar]

Sorry- SLI just plain doesn't work on many games. On many of those it does work on, it does so at loss of stability. Then you're going to be paying more money for an SLI capable motherboard (at least $30, probably $50), and doubling the price of the most expensive component by buying two of them. Its a shitty return for your money.

Also your very own source shows that at top tier (2500x1600), the performance of SLI is negligible or a downgrade. Compare FPS: GF 9600GT gets 26, GF 9600GT SLI gets 23.8. The 8800 drops from 27.9 to 22.7. So at the levels you're going to want to play at if you're a graphics whore enough to buy 2 video cards- it actually does *worse* than non-SLI. Granted the other games don't show this inverse case, but that just furthers the fact that the technology is buggy.

So buggy, unstable, and worse at high end graphics. Utter waste of money. I wouldn't do SLI if you gave me the extra card, its not worth the hassle. Especially for anyone with real world budgets.

Re:Very useful guides

[AuMatar]

9600 is perfectly fine considering the time frame. Its not expected to last 4 years, and its not meant for people who want every last feature turned on. This isn't meant to be a high end gaming box, it says budget. If you want high end, spread you wallet and your ass cheeks and be prepared for the pain. Its meant for people who want to spend a sane amount of money on their box, and still get a good experience. The 9600 does that just fine. Believe it or not, most people don't give a shit about Crysis, or about running in 2500x2000 mode with 8x anti-aliasing.

And quite frankly, look at the bench marks. The 9600 is just not that far below the 9800. Most likely something else is screwy on your friends box, I'd bet either the drivers or background processes.

Re:Very useful guides

[Fross]

nope, it's the 9600. it won't run anything that has a LOT of shaders all at once. Crysis is one thing, and I didn't even mention that, I'm talking *today's* mid-end gaming.

Re:Very useful guides

[AuMatar]

I have it. You're wrong. Every game I've played works fine, most at high level settings. And quite frankly, top settings aren't something I give a shit about. It's perfectly fine for today's gaming, and will be for at least 2 years.

Re:Very useful guides

[brunascle]

Actually it works very well. I've had 9600GT in SLI for a few months now, and I've never had a problem with a single game (and i play a lot of games). It's been an incredibly wise investment. It was $300 at the time. Not even the $600 8800 Ultra could match the performance of these 2. Yes, if you dont have an SLI capable mobo, it may not be worth the money, but I did.

Also, you're only looking at one game. COD4 at 2560x1600 did worse than the single gpu, and it's an anomaly. If you check the next page, you'll see that Quake Wars increases in 78% with SLI, and the page after that shows UT3 increases by 82% with SLI. And, on page 4, notice the 3DMark06 scores: in 4 of 5 tests, scores were doubled.

It's not always wise to go SLI, but with the 9600GTs it certainly is. For the price, it's an decent card by itself, but put together you get high-end performance for mid-range price.

Re:Very useful guides

[Anonymous Coward]

Case: 25 bucks will get you a decent case. They overpaid.

Oh christ, no. While you can pay too much for a case, $25 is a case for a throwaway machine or a cobbled together Linux box. All $25 will get you is sharp, unrolled edges, poorly-spaced motherboard post holes, and claustrophobic drive bays.

Invest in a good case, and you can reuse it later, or at least easily swap out parts as you upgrade in pieces.

Re:Very useful guides

[Anonymous Coward]

Hard drive: Unless you need the space, a 250GB drive goes for 60. Save yourself 30 bucks on space you're unlikely to use. And truthfully if you do need it in a year or two, buy it then when it's cheaper.

That's a really bad recommendation. 250 GB is $60. 500 GB is $70. And 750 GB is $110.

Obviously the best price point is 500 GB for $70. Heck, buy 2 for a 1 TB RAID and add another when the price goes down to $50. In RAID-0 that's much faster than a Raptor...

Re:Very useful guides

[AuMatar]

Size isn't the only consideration. Smaller disks have faster seek times. It actually can effect gaming performance.

Re:Very useful guides

[Dracolytch]

With this in mind, there are also some cheap upgrades you can get:

Spend that extra $25 on a nicer case. What you spend in cash you may very well save in frustration.

Not worried about drive space so much? Upgrade to a 10,000 RPM drive. The performance difference is noticable to a 7,200 RPM one.

Where NOT to spend extra money:
Faster RAM:
  - RAM is almost never your speed bottleneck. Look at your HDD, then CPU

SLI:
  - Put that extra video card down. Not only will it force you to buy a more expensive mobo, but it doesn't get you the performance boost you'd expect. Much like...

HDD RAID:
  - Only really boosts speed when working with single large files in a linear manner. If you're not absolutely sure you need this, then you don't.

Some interesting places to spend money in the future:
SSD RAID:
  - Doesn't have the bottleneck caused by seek time. Some tests show incredible perfomance boosts. Jury is still out as to what you'll see real-world.

~D

Re:Very useful guides

[brkello]

See, the problem is, I wouldn't consider that a gaming rig. That won't even play the cutting edge games of today, much less months from now. To get an entry level (modern) gaming rig, you are going to need to spend about $1000...unless something changes majorly, this is a good price point for the low end. I say for a decent gaming rig, the sweet spot is around $2000 for price/performance.

Good enough is obviously different for different people. I make decent money so don't mind building something nice every 3 years. I like to have a system that isn't already irrelevant when I put it together. Your system would still be slower than the system I made a year and a half ago.

Re:Very useful guides

[CAIMLAS]

There is only one, maybe two, things I'd disagree with you on. Or maybe three, as you don't make mention of it:

1) Don't waste your money, at all, on a cheap case. Throw down the hundred fifty dollars now for something which is of high quality construction, and it will not only last through multiple computers, but you'll have a quality case through multiple computers. How about something like this Coolmaster Cosmos case?
2) Do not skimp on a shit power supply. By "shit" I mean one which is not explicitly advertised as quiet: this also likely means it's one of the newer 90%+ efficiency ones. Also, a good power supply brand is well worth the money in reliability and consistency, in case you didn't know already. Antec is pretty good about that.
3) Shit RAM is one of the surest ways short of a power supply failure to get irritating and indeterminable errors. Don't go for "cheap" RAM, it's not worth the hastle 3 months down the road when it fails.

While $1,000+ is a bit extreme, and $2,000 is obscene these days (those fools have been using the same exact price points for entry/gaming/extreme computer creation since 1996! I doubt they know what they're talking about), when you pay a little bit more up front the first time, you don't have to throw everything away when you build a new system - and you get a degree of increased reliability and longevity.

Re:Very useful guides

[csartanis]

And a 640GB hdd goes for $85. Dont buy overpriced underpowered hardware.

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

Re:Very useful guides

[jthug]

Thanks for pointing all this out. I have a system that I'm looking to upgrade and all these guides always include costs for the things that get carried over. (optical, case, etc.) I was wondering how this guide stacked up.

Re:Very useful guides

[WuphonsReach]

For a good, power-gamer box, you can build a fairly screaming machine for a reasonable price these days.

22" 1680x1050 LCD - yes, they're more expensive then the 19", but not that much more. Figure about $275-$300 for this.

CPU - pick something in the $200-$250 range. Probably a quad-core now.

Motherboard - figure $150 for a good SLI or Crossfire board.

RAM - 4GB of fast memory is only $150 or so right now.

(2) hard drives - $150 or so - use the 2nd one to store images of the 1st one

(2) video cards - $180-$200 each. Much more then that, and you're probably overpaying for the video card. The GeForce 8800 512MB cards are a good bang for the buck. They're also pretty good at bang for the watt too.

Case - good cases are about $75. Get a good case, and it will last you through 3+ upgrades.

PSU - good PSUs are $100 or so for all that power

Misc parts - figure $75 for DVD, spare fans, other bits

That's $1650, plus the cost of the O/S and other software. The base unit is only $1350 if you already have a monitor. Tack on another $100 for an audio card if you want something better then the (usually) decent onboard sound.

And if you want to do it on the cheap... save yourself $200 by not buying the 2nd video card, which may keep you from also needing the better PSU (another $100). You could probably shave another $100 by buying a slightly less expensive CPU and only 2GB of RAM. Which would drop the costs down to about $950 for the base system.

Which would still be a very decent mid-range machine. With the option to toss that 2nd video card, 2GB RAM and a better PSU in it down the road as an inexpensive upgrade.

If you want to be able to downgrade to WinXP from Vista, you'll have to buy either Vista Ultimate or Vista Business, which will run you about $150 or so for OEM versions.

Re:Very useful guides

[WuphonsReach]

I ran a pair of GeForce 7950s for a while (2yrs or so), and recent upgraded to a pair of GeForce 8800 GT 512MBs. The GeForce 8800 GT 512MB cards are only about $180 now, which is a darn good price.

SLI works just fine. In fact, it works so well that you'll find some games become CPU constrained. Whoops, time to upgrade that old CPU. It's cost-efficient if you can buy 2 cards that are at the knee of the price curve. Cards that are fast but inexpensive (like the 8800 GT 512MB units) are good choices.

The only downside to SLI is that you can't run multiple monitors when you switch to SLI mode. (At least with the 7950 and 8800 series video cards.) So, if you really want dual-monitor support, while gaming, SLI won't do you any good.

(I generally just reboot into SLI mode when I want to do a bit of gaming.)

But yes... it's a bit of a luxury. OTOH, if one of my cards fries, I'm only out $200 instead of seeing a $500 card go up in smoke.

Re:Very useful guides

[WuphonsReach]

Size isn't the only consideration. Smaller disks have faster seek times. It actually can effect gaming performance.

Except that for the 250GB vs the 500GB... both disks are the SAME physical size. They (probably) both use the exact same internal platters, except that the 500GB drive has twice as many platters inside.

Two things affect seek time:

1) Physical platter size (radius or diameter measurement). A 2.5" platter vs 3.5" platter means that the drive head has a smaller total travel distance to seek from the outer track to the inner track. Which is why higher end disks use smaller platters (like the 2.5" SAS platters). Also why the Raptor drives used smaller physical platters (in addition to the issue that you can't spin a 3.5" disk platter at 10k RPM).

2) Rotational speed. Which puts a sector in a particular track under the data heads sooner. That's why higher end disks spin at faster RPMs (10k or 15k RPM).

Drive capacity has no bearing on seek time. Except for one caveat. If you take a 500GB drive, and only use the first 50% of the drive, it's possible that you'll simulate a smaller platter size. Which will make your seek time lower.

(The assumption there is that the drive's internal layout is such that using only the first 50% of the disk results in the drive using the inner tracks on the physical platters. Which is not a guarantee with Logical Block Addressing or LBA.)

luv 2 brag

[Saint Stephen]

I bought a new computer, so I love to brag about the deal I got.

e8500, 4gb ddr2 1066, p5q-3, 4870, freezer 7 pro, rosewill case, 250 gb hd = $1050
had vista64 for free

plays crysis at high "near 60 fps" and everything else to the max

no microstuttering

me = happy

Re:luv 2 brag

[truthsearch]

I feel really old right now because I don't understand a single thing you wrote.

Re:luv 2 brag

[Anonymous Coward]

bought a system very near your's but instead used e8400 as processor, have you tried benchmarking it in 3dmark 06? I got 13,5k, could be interested to see what you got. I use vista as well.

Re:luv 2 brag

[gfxguy]

Vista 64 was free, huh?

Re:luv 2 brag

[turgid]

Vista 64 is only free if your time has no value.

Re:luv 2 brag

[Anonymous Coward]

250 gb hd

What, they still make computers with such a pittance of space?! Or was the 250gb drive just something you found discarded in a dumpster?

Re:luv 2 brag

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, because if you were using XP 64 you'd be having a wonderful experience trying to do anything with your PC.

Re:luv 2 brag

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep. I read it as 'these damn kids spend to much money on toys'

Re:luv 2 brag

[powerlord]

I feel really old right now because I don't understand a single thing you wrote.

Allow me to try and explain ...
He said:

e8500, 4gb ddr2 1066, p5q-3, 4870, freezer 7 pro, rosewill case, 250 gb hd = $1050

e8500 ... hmmm maybe its a new eMachine that he used as a base to build on?
4gb ddr2 1066 ... ah! he picked up "Four "Gnarly-Bro" Dance Dance Revolution 2 pads. "1066" you'll notice is 42 more than 1024, so 1066 is just a "Really Cool" in binary.
freezer 7 pro ... well ... CPUs are hot nowadays so he bought an air conditioner to cool the room down. Quite sensible.
rosewill case ... hmmm must be one of those cases with alien eyes on it or something. I guess he'll pull the guts out of the e8500 and put them in there so it looks cool?
250 gb hd ... ah. He also picked up 250 "Gnarly-Bro" HighDensity floppies. Must be to back up his save games and make "backup" copies for friends.

Sounds like a neat gaming rig ...

Then again maybe it was l33t speak? ... or not ;)

Re:luv 2 brag

[Anonymous Coward]

Vista 64 was free, huh?

I got Windows 2000, Windows XP Pro, Windows 2003 Enterprise, Windows Vista Business, Windows Vista Business 64, Windows 2008 Server all for free, legally

I'm now sure of how many ways there are to get legal free windows, but it's entirely possible the parent is a student at a university that is part of MSDNAA, like I was.

Re:luv 2 brag

[jollyreaper]

I feel really old right now because I don't understand a single thing you wrote.

Ok, I'll translate.

I bought a new computer, so I love to brag about the deal I got.

"I'm the kind of weenie you always wanted to smack out of sheer jealousy."

e8500, 4gb ddr2 1066, p5q-3, 4870, freezer 7 pro, rosewill case, 250 gb hd = $1050
had vista64 for free

"e8500, that's just random numbers to sound important. 4gb, more random letters and numbers. DDR2 is the second Dance Dance Revolution game, I guess he enjoys playing it. 1066, that's the IRS form he has to fill out to cover the purchase of the thing. 4870, that's an IBM dumb terminal, not sure why that's involved. Freezer 7 pro, I guess he's wanting to make smoothies. Rosewill case, that's a knockoff of the Roswell design Alienware puts out. And Vista64, that's gay slang for a massive ass-pounding sans lube."

Re:luv 2 brag

[jabithew]

You could say the same about Linux, especially if you have an ati card, or have the audacity to try a 64bit distro.

*patiently awaits troll mods for criticising linux*

Re:luv 2 brag

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Yeah, I remember the days when you could tell the difference between an Intel processor and an nVidia graphics chipset. :-)

Re:luv 2 brag

[Anonymous Coward]

He's trying to show off the size of his ePeen. Nothing to get too concerned about.

Re:luv 2 brag

[Ubitsa_teh_1337]

You got a 250gb HD? That's just about the saddest thing I've ever heard. I bought a computer very similar to yours but with a 1TB HD @ newegg for $1050 as well. 250gb, seriously? In this day and age?

Re:luv 2 brag

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahhh ignorant bliss...
(pats your head)
My processor cost as much as your whole system. (QX9650)
Go run along and play now little buddy.

Re:luv 2 brag

[EvanED]

Speaking as someone who is running an MSDNAA copy of 64-bit Server 2K8 at home, it's almost certainly not totally in the clear. The agreement you accepted (or at least I accepted) to get them seems to rule out using it as your primary OS. For instance, a table of acceptable and unacceptable uses says "Microsoft® Windows® may only be installed to facilitate the use of other MSDNAA software and technologies such as Microsoft Visual Studio® .NET for instruction or research." I would interpret this as meaning if you use it to surf the web, play games, etc. you are beyond the bounds of the license.

That said... I'm running an MSDNAA copy of Windows on my home computer. If MS doesn't like it, Gentoo is waiting in the wings. (I also have an academic copy of XP that doesn't fall under those terms, but I do think my primary OS would change.)

Re:luv 2 brag

[WeeLad]

Perhaps it's because I'm not pushing the bounds of Linux or what my laptop can do, but I haven't had (m)any issues with the 64-bit version of FC9. The only thing that came close to an issue was hunting down and installing some 32-bit packages that specifically required 32-bit versions of my already-installed 64-bit RPMs.

I can see how that could turn into a nightmare as people try to install more and more software, and the developers are only churning out 32-bit packages with 32-bit dependencies.

Re:luv 2 brag

[sa666_666]

I've never had any problems with 64-bit in either Linux or Vista. But I will grant you the hell that is ATI and Linux.

Re:luv 2 brag

[Kneo24]

My buddy hates Windows (he's Loonix all the way), so when a new version comes out, I just have him pick one up for me through his MSDNAA. It runs me about $20 + shipping (which is whatever he pays). The only agreement he has to abide by is that he uninstalls the operating systems from HIS computer when he no longer attends that school.

Re:luv 2 brag

[gfxguy]

I've got ATI on my laptop, and Ubuntu 8.04 worked without any tweaking at all.

Re:luv 2 brag

[Anonymous Coward]

I could have sworn that the 1066 was in reference to The battle of Hastings. Why would you want RAM that old in a gaming machine? No clue.

Re:luv 2 brag

[powerlord]

I could have sworn that the 1066 was in reference to The battle of Hastings. Why would you want RAM that old in a gaming machine? No clue.

Hmmm I hadn't consider that. ... perhaps he was making sure it worked with a good long burn-in period ... say a 142 years or so?

Funny how that just keeps popping up ...

Re:luv 2 brag

[Anonymous Coward]

Speaking as someone who is running an MSDNAA copy of 64-bit Server 2K8 at home, it's almost certainly not totally in the clear. The agreement you accepted (or at least I accepted) to get them seems to rule out using it as your primary OS. For instance, a table of acceptable and unacceptable uses says "Microsoft® Windows® may only be installed to facilitate the use of other MSDNAA software and technologies such as Microsoft Visual Studio® .NET for instruction or research."

Yes, but the agreement also says you can keep the operating system after you're done with your research and leave the school. So as long as you used it at some point for school related activities, you're in the clear. And chances are, if you had access to MSDNAA, you needed to use some product from it for school (like visual studio)

Re:luv 2 brag

[Saint Stephen]

I think the HD was $50, and I was cutting corners and in a hurry. I just use it to play games, and my laptop has all my other stuff, but honestly, it's not even close to being full. I'm from an earlier age and to me 250 gb is still whopping plenty. I don't do DV or tons of music (have about 40GB on my laptop).

so, yeah, it was a wierd decision, but this one had a large amount of cache and is sata 3.0 and had good latency characteristics, and I saved like $50 versus the 640 GB that was almost the same.

Go figure, it made sense to me. I'll replace it later if I need to. Probably an SSD.

Re:luv 2 brag

[corrie]

You would need 4000 of those drives to sort of have enouogh space for one of the new 1 Petabyte databases

Re:luv 2 brag

[The Iso]

e8500 - This is an upper-range dual-core Intel CPU.
4gb ddr2 1066 - 4 gigabytes of fairly high-speed RAM.
p5q-3 - The motherboard. I had to look this up.
4870 - An ATI Radeon video card.
freezer 7 pro - An aftermarket heatsink for the CPU. Very effective, and very quiet.
rosewill case - Can't complain here. Rosewill makes a nice solid case.
250 gb hd - A 250 gigabyte hard drive.

All in all, a better machine than what I'm typing this on.

Re:luv 2 brag

[grantek]

lolz - GP was referring to the old adage that Windows fanboys used to bandy about, that "Linux is only free if your time has no value." - what's funny now is the opposite is true.

Re:luv 2 brag

[T.E.D.]

He had 4 Gig. 32-bit versions of Windows can only see about 1.5 Gig. Perhaps they thought the cost of handling support calls about the "missing" 2.5gig would be more than the cost of giving everyone Vista64.

Just another hardware guide

[Anonymous Coward]

So hardware guides are post worthy now?

Then let me submit the Ars System Guide ... every time they update it!

Re:Just another hardware guide

[EMeta]

You may be trolling, but I appreciate the links nevertheless. Thanks!

Re:Just another hardware guide

[couchslug]

"Then let me submit the Ars System Guide ... every time they update it!"

The updates and accompanying forum comments are good reasons to visit the site. :)

Re:Just another hardware guide

[Anonymous Coward]

arstechnica recommends Vista therefor they have nothing of value to say.

Re:Just another hardware guide

[Anonymous Coward]

Arstechnica: Home of the idiot (jeremy reimer) & underachiever online. No thank you. After seeing that moron reimer make a fool out of himself over at windows it pro magazine forums, and then all over the world online elsewhere? Personally, I steer clear of those morons by any means possible. All they do is re-report what others wrote online before they did, and this is some accomplishment?

games?

[larry bagina]

tuxracer runs just fine on my $200 linux machine.

Gone live?

[Danny Rathjens]

Why didn't we hear about the beta beforehand? And are they going to add new realms to this game to support the greater than expected number of players, because I can't log on my character currently.

Re:Gone live?

[Koiu Lpoi]

The WOW forums are that way
----->

Seriously, what are you talking about? Did they mention somewhere in TFA about WotLK going live?

Re:Gone live?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you want to know what else is --------> that way? The GP's post flying over your head. WOOOOOOOSH.

GP was referring to the /. effect as you cannot access TFA (i.e. he can't "login" to his "character") He was also poking fun at the fact that the synopsis says the news article has "gone live", which makes no sense whatsoever in the context it was used.

Re:Gone live?

[Koiu Lpoi]

That's not funny.

Seriously.

An unfunny joke is just as bad as a nonsensical comment.

I get it.

I ain't laughing.

But I get it.

Re:Gone live?

[Danny Rathjens]

It's not funny to you since it had to be explained to you, Mr. Excessive Line Breaks. :)

Load times

[Fallingcow]

These days, my biggest problem isn't low framerates--it's load times. The Witcher, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., tons of games with loads long enough that I have time to read a page (or two, or five) in a book during load screens.

My next rig will definitely have a raid-0 array, and will hopefully be the last non-flash-storage-based PC I make.

Re:Load times

[turgid]

When I were a lad I had a Spectrum 128. Starglider used to take the best part of 15 minutes to load from tape.

Re:Load times

[RingDev]

The Witcher was supposed to get patched some time soon to fix the load times, might want to check the web site and see if that patch is out yet. It also adds a whole lot of new models to the game, new voice acting, new music, and greatly improves the dialogs.

-Rick

Re:Load times

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, that's how I used to study in college.

Re:Load times

[compro01]

Last time I saw tests (2 years ago), RAID of any variety didn't make a difference in load times. The bottleneck was mostly the CPU and to a lesser degree, the amount/speed of RAM, as all the stuff needed to be decompressed, though this may have changed with newer dual/quad core CPUs and faster/more plentiful RAM, though I'm at work, so I can't look up stuff to check my info.

Re:Load times

[Fallingcow]

Oh, about half of my recent reading of Palahniuk's Choke was done that way, and I'm working through Descartes' Discourse on the Method while I finish STALKER. Also got through an 8-story sci-fi collection from the 60s, which mostly sucked. If I'd been reading while playing The Witcher I could probably add another 1/2 dozen titles here. I'd still like more of my gaming time to be about gaming, though.

Sharky's buyers' guides

[gregbaker]

I'm reminded of Sharky Extreme's Value and High-end Gaming Buyers' Guides. If you're buying, it would probably be interesting to compare them.

I'm sure I have seen other similar guides, but can't find them now.

Re:Sharky's buyers' guides

[Anonymous Coward]

ArsTechnica publishes a great system guide every few months.

Re:Sharky's buyers' guides

[gregbaker]

Right... The Ars Buyer's Guide.

Re:Sharky's buyers' guides

[Hyppy]

PCStats' Shopping List is also a great resource, updated monthly.

Re:Sharky's buyers' guides

[Anonymous Coward]

Ars Technica periodically presents three levels of buying choices. The "money is no object" typically runs five figures in price and is called the "God Box."

Re:Sharky's buyers' guides

[MojoStan]

I also recommend Tech Report's buying guides, which are updated semi-regularly and are geared toward "enthusiasts." Their loose target prices (not including monitor and OS) for "Econobox," "Grand Experiment," and "Sweet Spot" are $500, $1000, and $1500. Each recommended system also comes with "alternatives" that usually swich Intel/AMD and NVIDIA/ATI (e.g. the Econobox recommends Pentium Dual-Core with GeForce 9600 GT with Athlon X2 and ATI HD 3850 as alternatives).

Their latest guide (which includes AMD/ATI's HD 4000 series):

• TR's Summer 2008 system guide - Recommendations for building the right enthusiast's PCs

Give a hoot! Recycle!

[RingDev]

More so Reuse!

I usually run a 2 year cycle.

Year 1, I build a new PC. Although, I already have a nice monitor, a nice case, a large hard drive, an optical drive, and all the other fixings. So all a new PC is, is a CPU, motherboard, memory and graphics card. No need to replace everything else.

Year 2 I upgrade my existing PC. Add a bit of memory, get a larger hard drive, get the latest generation of graphic card. All for a budget well under $500.

Next year I give my now 'old' PC to my wife (mounting all the components into her perfectly fine case) and buy myself a new pile.

Sure, I'm not going bleeding edge with my stuff. But I just priced out a new PC for this fall. A Core 2 Duo @ 3ghz, 2Gigs of 1200 memory, new mobo, and an NVidia 8800GT. With tax and shipping it comes in right at $500, and will be more than enough machine to handle the next generation of games. Although I think I'll try to hold out just a hair longer for one last price cut on the Core 2 Duo chip. But the Wife's machine is going to need an upgrade for the next set of titles coming out.

-Rick

Re:Give a hoot! Recycle!

[gfxguy]

I operate very much like that. I have two kids, also, so at this point we all have our own desktops. You get to the point where you say "I have an old motherboard, cpu, memory, and video card... add a hard drive and a case and it's a fully functional computer... but then it's not like that... I'm more like 18 months to two years.

And I've decided not to buy desktops anymore. So it looks like a new laptop every couple of years from now on.

Re:Give a hoot! Recycle!

[larry bagina]

maybe you should mount your wife's box more often?

Re:Give a hoot! Recycle!

[Anonymous Coward]

I do the same thing, but....

Better off with a slower processor and a faster videocard. ATI 4870 far better than a 8800 GT. This card will actually go 2 years. 8800 GT is old news. 1200 memory is a waste. DDR2 800 is good enough and cheap.

Re:Give a hoot! Recycle!

[nawcom]

maybe you should mount your wife's box more often?

Her box is way too huge, and you can tell that lots of things have been taken in and lots of things pulled out that it looks a little bruised. Plus, it just looks too old, and it's always making noises. You learn to ignore it. These days MicroATX boxes are the thing; smaller, tighter, and they're portable - so it doesn't matter where you go, you can always bring along the box to play with.

You can make a bloody mess if you try to stick your peripheral in that kind of box when it just doesn't fit.

yes, nawcom knows he is twisted and sick.

Re:Give a hoot! Recycle!

[compro01]

A Core 2 Duo @ 3ghz, 2Gigs of 1200 memory, new mobo, and an NVidia 8800GT. With tax and shipping it comes in right at $500

*sigh* I spent just shy of $2k on a machine with somewhat similar specs (core2 duo e6850, 2GB ram, 8800GTS, 500GB HD) last year, though it was a completely new machine (case, power supply, a UPS, though i kept most of my externals) to replace my ancient p4 rig from late 2001 (which went to my sister to replace her even older p3 rig (when then went to my aunt and is now running xubuntu quite happily.)). Next upgrade cycle will be towards upgrading externals, especially my old 17" CRT.

Re:Give a hoot! Recycle!

[toddestan]

I always find it amusing those that have to upgrade on a schedule like that. I just upgrade and replace "as needed", and lately that's been saving me some money because I haven't really felt the need yet to move from my 2004/2005 vintage hardware yet. I'm currently hoping that I can hold out until the SSD disks are down to a reasonable price (say, 64GB for $200), which shouldn't be that long, really.

Re:Give a hoot! Recycle!

[RingDev]

That's actually my style as well. It just works out to be about every two years I have a piece of hardware fail, or my needs change, so I expect to do a replacement/minor upgrade every two years. And Most of the games my wife and I play together take pretty beefcake machines. And while my almost 2 year old machine can handle it fine, her machine (my 4 year old machine) is starting to lag behind.

So 2 years works out to be what I need, when I need it.

-Rick

Re:Give a hoot! Recycle!

[Anonymous Coward]

(mounting all the components into her perfectly fine case)

I thought we were talking about computers here!

Prices in USD

[Wellington Grey]

For those interested, the prices in USD are:

The Bang for the buck: Less than 864USD

Extreme Performance on a Budget: 864USD to 1,728USD

Perfection in Silicon Form: More than 1,728USD

-Grey

Re:Prices in USD

[Anonymous Coward]

Despite the pretty picture....

Not including:
O/S
Monitor
Mouse/kb
Speakers

Buying guide...

[geogob]

They should come up with a set of configurations for the best /.-proof PC servers for 2008 as well.

Re:Buying guide...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but only after they build one themselves.

Re:Buying guide...

[aronschatz]

You might be surprised, but the traffic that Slashdot sends is quite a bit less than what it used to be a few years ago. When I first got a Slashdot, my server barely stayed up...

Recently, a Slashdot happened and I didn't even notice a sweat and the users coming from Slashdot weren't that much.

Maybe people are getting bored of the internet.

Re:Buying guide...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Maybe people are getting bored of the internet."

Or Slashdot.

What about a small, silent, low-power FF XI box?

[Yvan256]

I'm looking for a minimum score of 5000~6000 with Vanad'iel Benchmark 3 at the "high" setting. The more fanless components, the better. The lower the prices, the better too.

My current Athlon XP 2400+, 512MB and Radeon 9600XT 128MB AGP runs FF XI fine in 640x480 with all details at maximum, however the power supply fan + CPU fan + GPU fan = quite annoying, not to mention the heat and wasted power.

Surely extremely low-end components of 2008 could run FF XI much better for a lot less power and be fanless too?

Lame

[steeleye_brad]

That site is a slow as shit...here's a summary:
Under $1000AU
CPU: Intel E8500 - $200
RAM: DDR2 4GB 800MHz RAM - $100v
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3 - $130
GPU: ATI 4870 - $300
PSU: Silverstone Strider ST50F 500W - $80
Case: Antec NSK4000 - $65
Optical: Pioneer 215BK SATA - $30
HDD: Western Digital 640GB - $93
Total Price: $998

Midrange
CPU: Intel E8600 - $300
RAM: DDR2 4GB 1066MHz - $150
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-X48-DS4 - $240
GPU: ATI 4870x2 - $655
PSU: Corsair HX620 - $160
Case: Cooler Master Cosmos S RC-1100 - $285
Optical Drive: Pioneer DVR-215D SATA 20x - $30
Storage: Western Digital 640GB - $93
Cooling: Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme & Scythe Slipstream - $85
Total: $1,998

High end (aka completely retarded)
CPU: Intel QX9770 - $1,600 (eXXXXXXtreeeeeeeeme!!!!)
RAM: 2 x 2GB Mushkin DDR3 XP3-14400 - $550 (A +$10,000 system with only 4GB of RAM, hah)
Motherboard: Foxconn Blackops X48 - $450 (what)
GPU: 2 x 4870x2 - $1320
PSU: Corsair HX1000 - $320
Case: Lian-Li PC-X2000 - $580
Optical Drive: Pioneer BDR-202BK - $390
Storage: 2 x 300GB Western Digital VelociRaptor - $700 (no, just no)
Cooling: Frozen SS Vapour Phase Change - $1,100 (hahahaha)
OS: Vista Home Premium 64bit OEM - $130
Monitor: Dell UltraSharp 3008WFP 30" - $2,000
Mouse: Razer Lachesis - $63
Keyboard: Razer Tarantula Gaming Keyboard or Optimus Maximus - $95 or $1,900 (also hahahahaha)
Sound Card : Auzentech X-Fi Prelude - $230
Speakers: Logitech Z-5500 - $320
Total: $9,848 or $11,653 (with Optimus Maximus)

Only the high-end configuration includes the operating system! Kind of a stupid article, their budget system should be capable of just about any game you throw at it, unless you want to play shit at native resolution on a 30" LCD. When it comes to picking out hardware for a custom build, I've always preferred The Tech Report's system guide. Very detailed, and they have alternate setups for various budgets. http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15009

Re:Lame

[Anonymous Coward]

I just spend 800 on a quad 2.4Ghz, w/ 8GB ram, and a decent nvidia card.... these people are dumb.

Re:Lame

[Anonymous Coward]

Storage: 2 x 300GB Western Digital VelociRaptor - $700 (no, just no)

No shit.

Those things are better than 7,200 RPM SATA in that they'll do around 100 random IO ops per second, but that's still dog slow compared to the 200+ IO ops per second a decent SCSI drive can handle.

Never mind what up-to-date SAS drives can do.

Go to eBay or some used-parts reseller, grab yourself some U320 SCSI drives and a decent U320 RAID controller. Do it right and you can push 1,000 random IO ops per second. Easily.

Less money AND you recycle/reuse old components.

Re:Lame

[Anonymous Coward]

Web Server System
CPU: Intel Pentium MMX 200Mhz (got from grandma when we bought her a new system for christmas last year)
RAM: 128 MB EDO (paid way too much on ebay but motherboard requires it)
Motherboard: dunno, but has phoenix bios
GPU: Trident S3 Trio 8MB PCI (found in dumpster)
OS: Windows ME (pirated)
Server: PWS
Optical Drive: None
Storage: 8GB WDC (found on side of road, 70% blocks are good)

Re:Lame

[fedcb22]

Why that processor, it's the biggest waste of money ever. I built my 8-core system for $1600 with a 9800GX2 and 8GB of RAM. Check out http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Core2+Extreme+X9770+%40+3.20GHz and see that even though two of them cost $450, the E5405 tops out the QX9770

Re:Lame

[rnelsonee]

Can any games use over 4GB yet? I'm just curious. Vista64 can handle 8, 16, or 128GB depending on the version, but do games need to be compiled to work with 64-bit instructions/memory use? Maybe the rig mentioned was for right now, and the extra 4 GB being a separate purchase down the road? Of course, this is supposed to be future-proof, isn't it?

Re:Lame

[C0vardeAn0nim0]

except that SCSI disks suck at sequential reading large volumes of data (like a 1GB movie). they're great for random ops on random, non-sequential operations.

Re:Lame

[Kneo24]

Do yourself a favor and pirate a copy of 2k on that system. ME crashes just by breathing in the same room as the PC. If it can run ME, it can probably run 2k. Hell, 98 crashes less.

Re:Lame

[RyoShin]

This seems like a bad comparison setup to me. I'd expect the "mid-range" model to be, well, about mid-way between low and high end prices. But the article have this sudden jump of $7K, which is like saying "Well, you can have a sub-compact, a sedan, or a [semi|ferrari]." (It's not Slashdot without a car analogy.) Where's the budget high-end? Something that can be done for $4K or $5K?

Also, I'd bet that a well-done budget high-end would only have a slight disadvantage in tests compared to the $11K machine. There's a point in hardware where you're no longer paying for extra capacity/ability, but just for that "new hardware" smell. Sure, you may get a bit more, but the per dollar ratio just plummets. When shopping for Intel processors last year on NewEgg, I noticed that there was a gradual increase in both price and quality, but around a certain mark (I want to say $400) there was a sudden jump of $300 more to the next better processor. I decided to purchase the one just before that jump.

And, as another poster commented, that stuff will be 1/3 the price in a year or so.

Re:Lame

[Chief_Wiggum]

Apparently budget gamers don't need mice, keyboards, sound, or monitors. They'll just wire it directly into their brains. No problem.

Re:Lame

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi There!

We were interested in ur l33t web server rig. Could you make us a phat one liek urs plz?

Regards,

http://www.gameplayer.com.au/

Re:Lame

[julesh]

Can any games use over 4GB yet? I'm just curious.

Maybe not. But remember that there are other demands on your memory than just the game you're running: OS core memory use, background tasks, disk cache.

If you want to have 4GB available for a single process, you should probably have 6GB installed in the system.

Re:Lame

[LarsG]

but do games need to be compiled to work with 64-bit instructions/memory use?

Yes. Just like any other piece of user mode software.

The 64bit OS will see and make use of all the RAM (Vista64 is artificially limited, but that is a marketing/market segment thing), while 32bit software will have (at most) a 4GB window into that RAM.

Re:Lame

[arQon]

and as a summary of the summary: the low and mid systems are made of "good" choices; the high system is a pile of crap, with most of its parts apparently chosen entirely by cost rather than actual quality or suitability for purpose (including one of the worst mice ever made, which is pretty critical part to get right in a gaming rig :P).

Re:Lame

[Anonymous Coward]

4GB of memory on a 64-bit machine? Seriously?

At work, we're doing some engineering work with Northrop Grumman. The Inventor CAD models we're working with have thousands and thousands of parts - so much so that NG's graphics guys were having trouble with them.

So we built a machine with 32GB of RAM, 2 quad-core xeon processors, and a $4,000 workstation graphics card. It runs like a dream -- and probably much better than the article's overclocked super rig does. Price tag was ~$8k not including software and peripherals.

Re:Lame

[Anonymous Coward]

there are so many things frustratingly weird about this list of hardware that I find it hard to pinpoint any single one.

I think it should be noted though, that they constantly use hardware that has been proven to perform worse than other hardware in field tests... are they being paid for advertising it? or do they just not read research? (I'm looking at you Razer equipment and Pioneer)

furthering the myth of expensive PCs...

[Grokmoo]

I hate these articles. They merely further the myth that you have to spend thousands on a PC to get decent gaming performance.

In reality, you could spend $500 on a PC (not including monitor) and get something that will play Crysis on high or very high depending on what resolution you are running.

You can put together what would in reasonable circles be considered high end for under $1000, yet that price is basically relegated to be "bargain basement" in this article.

Re:furthering the myth of expensive PCs...

[Anonymous Coward]

I love these articles.

How will I ever get my hands on a 4870x2 if idiots don't shell out their hard earned cash while ATI is still trying to recoup its development costs?

Now why they would want to do that when - at worst - any game on the market will require a non-bleeding-edge enthusiast card and that will cost half the price of a bleeding-edge card is beyond me, but more power to them. I mean, if they really want to spend as much on their graphics card as I spend on my rig, just to get a whole 20 more frames, why complain?

Re:furthering the myth of expensive PCs...

[Anonymous Coward]

They merely further the myth that you have to spend thousands on a PC to get decent gaming performance.

That's all relative. What's good enough for you, isn't good enough for others.

In reality, you could spend $500 on a PC (not including monitor) and get something that will play Crysis on high or very high depending on what resolution you are running.

Maybe some people want to play Crysis on their 70" HDTV's at 1080p, with all detail maxed out, 8x anisotropic filtering and whatever else you have in games these days?

You can put together what would in reasonable circles be considered high end for under $1000, yet that price is basically relegated to be "bargain basement" in this article.

What you or I would consider reasonable is vastly different than what people who actually have enough cash to consider buying a $10,000 PC would consider reasonable. Oh yeah, slashdot...gotta use a car analogy. I consider my Nissan Sentra to be a very good purchase, but I don't think I should call it "high end" and I definitely don't think people who own Aston Martins are idiots. It would certainly not be reasonable for me to buy one, but if they have the money, why shouldn't they enjoy it?

Re:furthering the myth of expensive PCs...

[dimeglio]

I have to say that Openarena works very well on this Pentium III base PC. I reverted to this game after I bought Assassin's Creed for PC. It didn't work on my non-core duo PC. I then read the VERY VERY fine print and saw the obscene system requirements. Not to mention AC is a few years old! The nice thing with OA is that all five of us can play on our home LAN. I'll keep AC until the next upgrade :(

Re:furthering the myth of expensive PCs...

[Anonymous Coward]

Your argument might make sense if people paid 2-3x as much for a new 2009 Aston Martin as a new 2008. But they don't and they would be stupid to do it.

Re:furthering the myth of expensive PCs...

[Anonymous Coward]

Your argument might make sense if people paid 2-3x as much for a new 2009 Aston Martin as a new 2008. But they don't and they would be stupid to do it.

Did you fail the SAT? Let's try a sample analogy:

A $10,000 high-end PC is to a $1,000 mid-range PC as...

1. The Batman is to the Joker
2. A new 2009 Aston Martin is to a new 2008 Aston Martin
3. A new 2009 Aston Martin is to a new 2009 Nissan Sentra

Hint: The answer isn't (2)

Can you run the games that are out now at the same detail, resolution, and frame rate on the $1000 computer that you can on the $10,000 computer

Can the $1000 play blu-ray movies?

Can you accelerate at roughly the same rate on a Sentra that you can on an Aston Martin?

Can you accelerate at roughly the same rate on a 2008 Aston Martin that you can on a 2009 Aston Martin? Holy shit, could it be that you're comparing a $10,000 computer to another $10,000 computer?

Will the features of the Aston Martin eventually be in the budget Nissan cars? Hint, check out in which class of cars remote locking systems, air bags, and cd-players came out in first.

If you didn't earn enough during the last week to buy a Sentra, would you even consider buying an Aston Martin? If you have enough money to buy an Aston Martin, would you ever consider buying a Sentra?

Conclusion: If you're buying a $10,000 PC, you have money to burn. You won't miss the $10,000, and you'll have more fun with it than you would with the $1,000 computer. There's nothing wrong with that anymore than there's something wrong with having your own private jet instead of buying a coach ticket.

Re:furthering the myth of expensive PCs...

[nasor]

If you look at their "high end" system it's clear that they were just going out of their way to spend as much money as possible. It included a $1100 cooling system and a $580 case - both of which are laughable prices. There's also $550 for 4GB of RAM, which earns a giant WTF.

Re:furthering the myth of expensive PCs...

[Anonymous Coward]

You are arguing only for the sake of your analogy, but your analogy is inapt.

I'm talking about relative value here. Relatively speaking, a 2008 Aston Martin is the same value as a 2009 Aston Martin. There is a slight, but more or less insignificant increase in value between model years. This is, in fact, reflected in the price. Relatively speaking, you can expect to pay the same amount of money for a new model car from year to year.

But if it makes more sense to you, compare the price of a new 2008 Aston Martin with the price of a new 2008 Aston Martin when the 2009 Aston Martins become available. The price drops, but not by much.

In contrast, your 2008 $10,000 computer will only cost $5,000 in 2009 for the exact same computer. Yes, you can spend another $10,000 and get something better, but now you're talking about a different "model" computer entirely.

The fact of the matter is a $10,000 gaming PC has very limited real value over a $1,000 gaming PC, but lots and lots of perceived value for some folks. The more you spend, the less real value you get in return for your dollar.

This is much different than comparing an Aston Martin to a Nissan. Yes, there is some perceived value, but there is also lots and lots of real value.

If you didn't earn enough during the last week to buy a Sentra, would you even consider buying an Aston Martin? If you have enough money to buy an Aston Martin, would you ever consider buying a Sentra?

I probably will never buy an Aston Martin even though I could pay cash for one tomorrow. My last new car I paid less than blue book - it wasn't a Sentra, but it certainly cost much less than an Aston Martin.

But that's a matter of choice. Aston Martin provides excellent value, but I don't need/want everything they offer and am very sensitive to opportunity costs, so an Aston Martin isn't for me.

Would I spend, say, $200,000 on a car that provided me with another 20 hp over my current car or could go an extra 50mph faster at the top end? Hell no.

Site is down

[roman_mir]

Maybe they should have hosted the site on that monster gaming PC, cause it's down and I can't leave a meaningful comment without looking at what they've done, though I am sure it won't stop anyone else from trying.

Still...

[Anonymous Coward]

Even with all the money you put into it, it still can't run Duke Nukem Forever.

Bad Suggestions for 1000-2000$

[hypergreatthing]

Bad all around. 1000-2000$ does not mean 2000$, some of their choices were just bad. For example:
300$ for a dual core e8600? Are you joking? Why not go for a e9550 quad core for 330$? They're both 45nm, and with the e0 stepping right around the corner you can probably squeak 3.6 ghz easily on air cooling off that bad boy.

Why a gigabyte x48-ds4 motherboard? The ds4 is the smaller/cheaper brother of the dq6 or whatnot. Why not instead get a p5q delux from asus? It's 200$, and for that you get a hell of a lot more (better bios/more sata/more pcie slots) for cheaper. Yes it's only a p45 chipset instead of a x48, but unless you're doing any sli/crossfire the x series really doesn't do that much for you.

That case they suggested is expensive as hell! WTF, get a antec p182 for like 120$.

The 4870 is a good choice, but honestly, you cannot beat a 260gt when it costs 230$ after rebate. Check out newegg and evga. It hands down beats a 4850 and comes in a shade slower than a 4870.

All in all my changes could save you somewhere in the order of 500$. That brings you to the 1000-1500 range without blowing all of your budget.

Someone needs to do a bit more research when posting the "best your money can buy" articles. I know it's all opinion but come on.

Re:Bad Suggestions for 1000-2000$

[Notquitecajun]

The funny thing is, you could have made all your numbers and names up and those of us who don't care as much would know the difference.

Re:Bad Suggestions for 1000-2000$

[Kneo24]

Well, rebates don't last forever. You can't really rely on them for a pricing structure. Just saying.

The Best Gaming "PC Money" Can Buy

[maestroX]

easy, try a wii or ps3.

Forget the hardware.

[Steve Baker]

How much do I have to spend to get a good game?

Re:Forget the hardware.

[Anonymous Coward]

$49.99?

Re:Forget the hardware.

[Opportunist]

It's not a matter of money, it's a matter of supply. You can't buy what isn't offered.

A diffent kind of computer gaming

[davidwr]

I prefer to buy scrap PCs cheap and do Olympic Discus Throws with real disks.

Other games:

Ram Stick Javelin Throw.
Mouse Shotput.
CD Spindle Soccer.

slashdotted?

[diegocn]

Already...

Re:slashdotted?

[diegocn]

FYI, alternative link: http://www.tech2.com/india/topstuff/enthusiast/the-best-pc-money-can-buy/2874/0

Re:slashdotted?

[ThePhilips]

As soon as I have read that article still recommends DDR2, I felt that something is wrong.

And I was right: the article is dated November 2006...

Move on, nothing (new) to see here.

He writes lyrics too

[Ethanol-fueled]

That's only beacuse he didn't buy a REAL guitar/
and all he can play is Come as you are

Real rock stars are not on Slashdot/
Playing a bass makes a guitar player not.

Re:He writes lyrics too

[Anonymous Coward]

Playing a bass makes a guitar player not.

Tell that to Victor Wooten, Les Claypool, Stu Hamm, Flea, Stanley Clarke, etc...

I'd explain why you are so wrong, but the fact that you made that statement is enough to know that you wouldn't understand.

Re:He writes lyrics too

[Anonymous Coward]

Playing a bass makes a guitar player not.

Lolwat? Playing a bass guitar is not playing a guitar?

Re:He writes lyrics too

[Scootin159]

Anyone who can play bass well, could be taught to play 'reasonably good' guitar within a few days (if that)... although realistically most bass players already know how to play guitar. Guitar players can often also play bass, and if not, could certainly be taught how to do so within a few hours. Normally the only thing that keeps a person tied to one or the other is: practicality ($$ to own both), ego or just plain ignorance.

Re:He writes lyrics too

[turgid]

Funny that. Before I got a bass I played violin. I played resonably well, and was promoted to leader of an orchestra (intermediate level) and leader of the 2nd violins of the senior symphony orchestra. However, my "work first, play never" parents insisted I get a job putting out potatoes in the local supermarket.

After a while I tried to take up 6-string guitar, but life got in the way. A few years back, I tried again, but last summer at Download I saw old Dave Mustaine for the umpteenth time, and Slayer, and decided it had to be done. I got a nice V 6-string for Christmas. Yes, it's a Jackson but I've always wanted one and after 18 years I got one.

By the way, the lady I inspired by playing the bass was the lady who shared the front desk with me in the intermediate orchestra. She was a far better musician...

Re:He writes lyrics too

[ParanoidJanitor]

Well, a guitar and a bass have a different number of strings, which (IIRC) are not the same sequence of notes (tuned in fifths and fourths, respectively.) So you can't necessarily play one if you play the other.

Re:He writes lyrics too

[turgid]

The guitar and bass guitar are tuned in 4ths. The exception is the B string on the guitar which is a major 3rd above the G string below it.

The violin, viola and cello are tuned in 5ths. The odd one out is the double bass which is a member of the viol family (a relic from 300 years ago) and is tuned the same as the bass guitar.

Re:He writes lyrics too

[Anonymous Coward]

You missed the point. A bass guitar is a guitar.

Re:He writes lyrics too

[garett_spencley]

I guess it depends on what you define 'reasonably well' as.

Both instruments are tuned the same in most cases, only an octave apart... and so long as the bass has frets then getting the instrument to make noise is the same (fret a note and pluck the string). However, both instruments are also completely different beasts that serve 2 very different purposes. There are also many techniques that are exclusive to each instrument.

Guitar players do not always make good bassists and vice versa. As a former guitar teacher, one issue that a lot of students of mine often had was keeping tempo without a metronome or drummer. Bassists need to have impeccable rhythm and they need to understand their place in the arrangement. Many guitarists like to assume that it's simple frequency balance. Rock guitarists particularly seem to have a hard time grasping the idea of supporting the percussion section, creating rhythm and creating harmony with the rest of the rhythm section. I still have nightmares about bassists in high school (usually guitarists who were suckered into playing bass by the rest of the band) who would simply play the root over each chord that the rhythm guitarist was playing.

So yeah, give a guitarist a bass and he'll make some noise no problem. But if you, as I, consider 'reasonably well' to be up to par with bassists like Paul Webb, Geddy Lee, Les Claypool, Stu Hamm, Billy Sheehan etc. then it takes years of practice on the instrument and having prior experience on a 6 string guitar will only help overcome some of the very initial hurdles like learning how to fret and pluck; hold the instrument etc.

Re:He writes lyrics too

[Anonymous Coward]

In theory, guitar and bass are identical: they share the same bottom four strings (E A D G), and the notes are identical (ie, fourth fret on the G string is a B on both guitar on bass guitar). In practice, stereotypically, the guitar and bass (guitar) have different roles. Because of the bass's lower range, it usually takes the root of a chord, while the guitar (with it's higher range and two extra strings) usually takes either the rhythm part (strumming chords) or lead (needlyneedlyneedly). Additionally because of the bass guitar's thicker strings, it's harder to pull off solos. However, exceptions abound - John Entwistle comes to mind, not to mention metal.

In short, successful troll is quite successful.

Re:He writes lyrics too

[areusche]

What's the range of a viola? about 250 ft.

Re:He writes lyrics too

[Fulcrum of Evil]

Bass or lead guitar, you've got to try schechter - I heart my C1 classic.

Re:He writes lyrics too

[Abreu]

There are several bassists that tune in 5ths... My fingers hurt just from thinking about it, but it can be done.

Re:He writes lyrics too

[turgid]

Ouch! I'd be worried about the stress on the neck too. I once tried tuning my guitar to Robert Fripp's "new standard tuning" i.e. in 5ths with the bottom string tuned down to a C. All I managed to achieve was to ruin a previously nice set of strings, waste 30 minutes and £6.

Re:He writes lyrics too

[Abreu]

You need to get single strings in appropiate gauges for that...

or maybe buy 3 sets of 6 string bass strings in light, medium and large and pick and choose from there

Re:He writes lyrics too

[turgid]

Interesting. It's a shame Total Guitar neglected to mention that.

Website is terrible, relevant info here

[ProlificLurker]

Um. Ok. Raiding some kids Newegg 3 tiered I-wonder-how-much-I'll-get-for-my-bar-mitzpah wishlist doesn't belong here. I highly doubt anybody here needs any advice on what gaming rig to buy. But in case you do, hear is the info in USD.

861.430 USD

        * CPU: Intel E8500 - $200
        * RAM: DDR2 4GB 800MHz RAM - $100v
        * Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3 - $130
        * GPU: ATI 4870 - $300
        * PSU: Silverstone Strider ST50F 500W - $80
        * Case: Antec NSK4000 - $65
        * Optical: Pioneer 215BK SATA - $30
        * HDD: Western Digital 640GB - $93

1,724.59 USD

        * CPU: Intel E8600 - $300
        * RAM: DDR2 4GB 1066MHz - $150
        * Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-X48-DS4 - $240
        * GPU: ATI 4870x2 - $655
        * PSU: Corsair HX620 - $160
        * Case: Cooler Master Cosmos S RC-1100 - $285
        * Optical Drive: Pioneer DVR-215D SATA 20x - $30
        * Storage: Western Digital 640GB - $93
        * Cooling: Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme & Scythe Slipstream - $85

8,499.13 USD
        * CPU: Intel QX9770 - $1,600
        * RAM: 2 x 2GB Mushkin DDR3 XP3-14400 - $550
        * Motherboard: Foxconn Blackops X48 - $450
        * GPU: 2 x 4870x2 - $1320
        * PSU: Corsair HX1000 - $320
        * Case: Lian-Li PC-X2000 - $580
        * Optical Drive: Pioneer BDR-202BK - $390
        * Storage: 2 x 300GB Western Digital VelociRaptor - $700
        * Cooling: Frozen SS Vapour Phase Change - $1,100
        * OS: Vista Home Premium 64bit OEM - $130
        * Monitor: Dell UltraSharpâ 3008WFP 30" - $2,000
        * Mouse: Razer Lachesis - $63
        * Keyboard: Razer Tarantula Gaming Keyboard-$95
        * Sound Card : Auzentech X-Fi Prelude - $230
        * Speakers: Logitech Z-5500 - $320

Re:Website is terrible, relevant info here

[Opportunist]

That 8,5k rig smells a lot of "we wanted some shock effect, so we simply dumped the most expensive components together". Some of the things don't even remotely make sense for a gaming rig.

Re:Website is terrible, relevant info here

[CAIMLAS]

Nevermind the idiots only put 4G of RAM in a $10k system. Say, what?

Re:Website is terrible, relevant info here

[geekoid]

A Western Digital VelociRaptor? seriously? once again performance PCs miss the boat.

SCSI outperform SATA.

http://www.superwarehouse.com/Maxtor_Atlas_300GB_Hard_Drive/8D300L0/ps/468903

http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=a6c7a3b7b59ad010VgnVCM100000dd04090aRCRD&locale=en-US

If you want performance, use SCSI if you want cost saving, use SATA.

Wacom?

[kungfuj35u5]

Lol, is that a wacom tablet in that photo?

Re:The Best Gaming "PC Money" Can Buy

[Anonymous Coward]

what? no 360?

Nothing new here

[Belteshazzar]

Nothing new here, Sharky Extreme has been doing this for years and is more featureful.

Davinchy

[Davinchy]

That site is living in some alternate universe thinking they have built the best money can buy with that PoS system they have as their ultimate. First off for 1600 dollars why get a quad core. You could get octo core for half of that. ( that is assuming you even need 4 cores) dual core would probably be just as good as 8 though for most games. Next they are going with 10,000 rpm hard drives and no solid state drive. Solid state drives are much much faster than any platter hdd. You can put them in the same configurations that platter hdds go in too. Anyway non of that system makes sense.. I mean they just found all of the most expensive things they could find and put them in the system. Why get a $2,000 dollar dell monitor when there are better monitors out there. Oh because it's expensive. P.S. Why would anyone spend 10k on a system that is at the end of a technology cycle. negalem coming out in a month or so. Anyway that site is LAME

Re:Davinchy

[kungfuj35u5]

I believe it's Nehalem you're referring to. And yes, it will be epic.

Re:What about a small, silent, low-power FF XI box

[Anonymous Coward]

All for the glory of afk bazaaring?

Pussy Nazi Sez

[Anonymous Coward]

No pussy for YOU!

The Best Gaming PC Money Can Buy...

[saboola]

..is no longer the best by the time you publish your article.

1 GB / $ HD?

[FireIron]

Are hard drives down to 1GB per dollar yet? I remember when they hit 1MB per dollar, and it was a big deal at the time. I had an onion tied to my belt...

Re:1 GB / $ HD?

[jnaujok]

Last I checked, we're close to $0.10 per gigabyte. Since the terabyte drives are just over $100 for 1000GB.

Re:1 GB / $ HD?

[Anonymous Coward]

where are you buying your oh-so expensive drives? You can get that WD 640GB for about 14 cents a gigabyte from just about any online retailer.

Re:1 GB / $ HD?

[Rudeboy777]

Hilariously, the hard drive recommended on their top end systems is very close to failing to cross the 1GB/dollar threshold:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136260&Tpk=VelociRaptor

High budget config change

[shuz]

The High budget system needs solid state hard drives. All major heat producing elements should also be liquid cooled. I agree with many other posts. You could put together a much better system for 9,000.

Oblig.

[stonefry]

Can it run Crysis?

Investment?

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless you make money playing games, its not an "investment".

Re:What about a small, silent, low-power FF XI box

[Yvan256]

That would just be a bonus side-effect. The main goal is to lower the power, heat and noise while still gaining a few frames per second (and/or the ability to play in higher than 640x480).

4870 is budget?

[TheLink]

Wow, budget is ATI4870? That's high end for me.

A "mere" 9800GT at half the price can manage Crysis at 1680x1050. Maybe not at the extreme quality settings, but after a while you stop looking at the fancy stuff and start concentrating on dodging and shooting ;).

That said I was tempted to go for the ATI4870 (it's the fastest card you can get without a silly $$$ to performance ratio), but the power consumption, heat and noise worried me (I don't live in Canada ;) ). I figure I might as well spend half the money get a 9800GT and hopefully something later comes out that's the same speed as an ATI4870 but uses a lot less power, and is half the price a 4870 is now :).

So far no regrets with the 9800GT with Zalman cooler - my PC is quiet enough for me. System is stable and fast enough.

Re:4870 is budget?

[p0tat03]

Well, the idea is that the GPU is expected to be the first thing in your system to go obsolete. That CPU will last a pretty fricking long time, as will the RAM, without becoming major performance bottlenecks. Your GPU will get out of date quick. The ATI would (ostensibly) offer better longevity in this case.

Re:4870 is budget?

[TheLink]

Well to me it seems my 9800GT for USD150 is about good enough for current games, and I'm hoping by the time there's a game I want to play where it isn't good enough there would be a new 4870 class or better video card for USD150 which is good enough.

So instead of spending USD300 now, I spend 150 now, and 150 later. And USD150 later is most likely to be worth less than USD150 now, but still buy about the same ranking video card in the new rankings then :).

Of course if you want high quality 60fps for Crysis now then "good enough" is an ATI4870 - as I said I was tempted to get one too :).

Buying a mid/high vid card was a lot harder before late last year = the mid and high cards were unimpressive for the price you had to pay. I'm glad nvidia and ATI started this recent video card war (I think it started with the 8800GT vs 3870 last year).

Tech Report has been doing this for years

[AlexMax2742]

Why is this news? Tech Report has been doing this for years and it never made the slashdot front page.

http://techreport.com/articles.x/15009

Good guide by the way, I got the Grand Experiment a few weeks ago and it's been great.

Vista is Stable, Secure, and Enjoyable? WOW!

[Viduliya]

"Your hardware won't function without an OS, so what better choice than Microsoftâ(TM)s latest offering. Despite the constant criticism, Vista is a very stable, secure and enjoyable platform to work with." --

Agreeably you may need Vista as the OS on your ultimate "GAMING PC" specification only because most games require Windows in one form or another to run with all the uber options enabled.

I guess we have to take this all with prospective. As in saying something is stable compared to a house of straw in the path of a tornado and secure compared to a wet paper bag.

What levels are these?

[Sockatume]

We have three tiers for the three levels of PC gamers out there

From the prices I assume those levels are "lives in own property", "lives with parents", and "purely hypothetical".

Re:What about a small, silent, low-power FF XI box

[Pinky's Brain]

A completely fanless system is not going to be cheap even for a low end setup ... even with a low end gaming processor/GPU natural convection inside a vented case won't cut it. You need to attach everything to the case via heatpipes. There are several manufacturers offering small boxes with this system, but I don't know of any with anything resembling a good video card ... if you want to be able to pick your own components you are looking at something like the Zalman TNN 300, a 1000$ case ...

With big heatpipe heatsinks and a good case you can get away with 500/800 RPM fans ... which while of course not silent are very quiet.

I'd go for an Antec 300 with a pro82+ or vx450 PSU. Low end Wolfdale CPU with a heatpipe tower cooler (spoiled for choice here, see a review site like Frostytech and pick whatever is decent, available and cheap). HD4850 GPU with an Accelero S1 or Auras Fridge cooler. Replace all the fans (put one on the GPU cooler as well) and throw in an enclosure for the HD and it's going to be very quiet. Not silent, but it's a hell of a lot cheaper than a TNN 300.

Gee...

[Bullfish]

A gaming computer for $1000 will like give you 90 per cent of the real world effectiveness of a computer that costs 10X as much... and you still will not likely be able to crank the AA and AF on Crysis on the 10K machine... No wonder consoles are the king of gaming for most. A top end video card costs more than some consoles.

Re:Gee...

[Rockoon]

AA performance is dominated by resolution. The people with 1280x1024 native resolutions have no problem running crisis with full AA on 8800GT's with respectable framerates. There is a mismatch between AA performance and AA benefit and that drives the market to pretty much underpower AA performance. 100 DPI displays need more AA than 200 DPI displays. DPI is disjoint from resolution. Higher resolution monitors typically have better DPI than lower resolution monitors. The 1280x1024 crowd are pretty much all sitting at the basement of 100DPI, and thats the target for nvidia/ati's AA performance.

Gaming Rig

[Anonymous Coward]

i was going to make a sarcastic remark about building a sweet gaming rib for almost nothing.. so looking on ebay for a 386 i found a ps/1 (386 with 2mb ram) for $500 "vintage". I didnt know Epsons made in 1993 were that expensive
Ebay.com

So, the high end one.

[lattyware]

Someone sorted by price, highest first. They should feel proud.

Re:Vista is Stable, Secure, and Enjoyable? WOW!

[Zarf]

"Your hardware won't function without an OS, so what better choice than Microsoftâ(TM)s latest offering. Despite the constant criticism, Vista is a very stable, secure and enjoyable platform to work with." --

Really? Really? Really?

Just throws all the other recommendations into question. And Vista as opposed to ... what why even mention it as a choice? There is no choice. It would be like saying back in 1970's we chose the power and convenience of AT&T's phone service... as opposed to what? A can and string?

It's a gaming PC so of course it runs Vista or XP. Something like "We chose Vista for newer Direct X" pretending otherwise is an insult to the readers.

Obligatory car analogy

[Lost Engineer]

In reality you could spend 3000 (not including steering wheel cover) on a 1998 Honda civic that will get you to work fast or reasonably fast depending on traffic.

Re:Vista is Stable, Secure, and Enjoyable? WOW!

[Wiseblood1]

I loved that analogy

wrong event for mouse

[WinPimp2K]

The mouse is used in the hammer throw - that is why it has a cord.
If your mouse has no cord, you are disqualified because your mouse is underage :)

Burning and Explosions guide...

[Anonymous Coward]

They should come up with a set of configurations for the best /.-proof PC servers for 2008 as well.

That would be a computer that can run Crysis on maximum settings.

Re:The Best Gaming "PC Money" Can Buy

[C0vardeAn0nim0]

i came here to post exactly that.

nothing beats sitting comfortably on the couch, feet up, with a wireless controler, on a large TV screen.

seriously, after my last desktop peecee smoked, i had the option of fixing it, selling the parts that were still good and kiss gaming good buy (an el cheapo notebook i had doesn't cut it for gaming) or buy a PS3.

i bought the PS3. couldn't be happier. the money i'd have to spend on a decent motherboard and CPU paid the PS3 and i got a bluray player free.

Quality site!

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone from TFA needs to fix their web.config. Shame, shame:

Server Error in '/' Application.
Unspecified error
Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code.

Exception Details: System.Data.OleDb.OleDbException: Unspecified error

Source Error:

Line 329:
Line 330: dbConn.Open()
Line 331: DBReader = DBCommand.ExecuteReader()
Line 332: If DBReader.HasRows Then
Line 333:

Source File: E:\Xmete\WebSite\gp\KenticoCMS\CMSTemplates\GamePlayerASPX\gp_preview_documents.aspx.vb Line: 331

Stack Trace:

[OleDbException (0x80004005): Unspecified error]
      Microsoft.VisualBasic.CompilerServices.Container.InvokeMethod(Method TargetProcedure, Object[] Arguments, Boolean[] CopyBack, BindingFlags Flags) +272
      Microsoft.VisualBasic.CompilerServices.NewLateBinding.LateGet(Object Instance, Type Type, String MemberName, Object[] Arguments, String[] ArgumentNames, Type[] TypeArguments, Boolean[] CopyBack) +370
      GamePlayer_Preview_Documents.GetDocumentData(String NodeAlias) in E:\Xmete\WebSite\gp\KenticoCMS\CMSTemplates\GamePlayerASPX\gp_preview_documents.aspx.vb:331
      GamePlayer_Preview_Documents.Page_Load(Object sender, EventArgs e) in E:\Xmete\WebSite\gp\KenticoCMS\CMSTemplates\GamePlayerASPX\gp_preview_documents.aspx.vb:437
      System.EventHandler.Invoke(Object sender, EventArgs e) +0
      System.Web.UI.Control.OnLoad(EventArgs e) +99
      System.Web.UI.Control.LoadRecursive() +47
      System.Web.UI.Page.ProcessRequestMain(Boolean includeStagesBeforeAsyncPoint, Boolean includeStagesAfterAsyncPoint) +1436

Version Information: Microsoft .NET Framework Version:2.0.50727.1433; ASP.NET Version:2.0.50727.1433

Re:The Best Gaming "PC Money" Can Buy

[tepples]

easy, try a wii or ps3.

And lose the ability to meaningfully play indie games. Wii needs a crack based on the unpatched Twilight Princess disc, and PS3 needs a reboot into a version of Linux without even 2D accelerated graphics.

3 levels of gaming? That is Nvidia marketing hype.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't buy into it.

I'm one of the most hardcore gamers around. I've flown around the country to compete on LAN and sunk years of my life into competitive online gaming.

My systems are always good enough to not handicap me in my chosen game. I.E. my maximum potential can be achieved with the hardware I have available to me at any given time.

I don't give a crap about graphics. I don't need to buy 2x $500 video cards. Competitive gamers turn down the graphics as far as possible anyway to remove as much "clutter" from their field of vision as possible.

If, on the other hand, you are a casual hobbyist gamer that likes bright, shiny, pretty colors then by all means spend 5 or 10 grand on a computer.

I'll be the one fragging you until you leave the server in tears on my 3 year old PC that cost me about $1,000 at the time.

Anything new or special here?

[cojsl]

Can't RTFA as it's /.'ed, but how is this worthy of the front page? Any number of PC hardware enthusiast websites regularly do this type of article.

Re:Anything new or special here?

[LarsG]

Are you not yet familiar with Slashvertisements?

Article submitted by SlappingOysters. User has a UID that can't be more than a week old. He has submitted one article, and written in total one comment - which also contains a link to the auzzie online game magazine. The user's email address is at derwenthoward.com.au, which just happens to be the publisher for said magazine.

The alternatives are (1) money changed hands, or (2) ScuttleMonkey is asleep at the wheel.

Re:The Best Gaming "PC Money" Can Buy

[Fross]

nothing beats sitting comfortably on the couch, feet up, with a wireless controler, on a large TV screen.

I think you'll find mouse and keyboard beats it easily. not in comfort perhaps, but definitely in performance :)

The question that's really on all our minds:

[Anonymous Coward]

Does buying that $10,000 gaming rig increase or decrease one's chances of getting laid? (I'm inclined to believe it's the latter.)

Re:Vista is Stable, Secure, and Enjoyable? WOW!

[danbert8]

I don't think they mentioned it because it is obvious, they mentioned it for the $$$. I mean, Intel had to pay them off to list Intel processors as the best bang for the buck, why not get paid by MS too?

You could get a $50 Athlon 64 X2 and not notice the difference in most games from the $200 Intel processor. They obviously did not do very much research...

No OS?

[dubbreak]

So only the highend system gets an OS or did they forget to add the following?
OS: Cracked XP pro - $free

I assume they just wanted to make a certain price point ($1000 and $2000), but it seems kind of silly to include it on the expensive system and not the other ones.

Probably not accurate

[woodycat]

I checked the budget of less than $AU1000 recommended rig at the cheapest discounting store I know of here in OZ. Note; this is where the article originated.The price was $AU1163 total. I know this particular store consistently has the lowest prices nationwide and have used them for many years because of that. So- grain of salt on this article.

Hahahahahaha

[Anonymous Coward]

Hahahahahahaha.
Sorry, when I saw they recommended ATI I couldn't help myself

TWiT UGM 2008

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.sxe13.com/TwitLiveWiki/index.php?title=UGM

Have enjoyed watching this develop.

2+ years behind on average

[CranberryKing]

I am usually content with [$year - 2] system and have never spent > $200 for gpu. That said.. I just installed my XFX GF 9600GT/512MBGDDR3/PCIE2. Paid $150 on newegg and think it's da bomb. I really like XFX as a company. The mountains of raving reviews for this product says it all. So my 'rig'.. maybe $600 bucks.

I've just won the lotto

[Cprossu]

and I am gonna get a FOXCONN mobo?!?!

man I guess I seriously have to revise my standards =)

Nice list on paper, did they actually test?

[stickyc]

The one thing I'd love to see with these articles are a few actual build/tweak sessions. Sure, it looks like a monster on paper - but maybe the 4870 drivers aren't mature under Vista 64 and you end up rebooting every half hour. Makes the whole list pretty useless.

Alas, it didnt look like these guys have actually even touched the hardware they're writing about on a store shelf, much less opened it up and done compatibility or performance tests.

Re:The Best Gaming "PC Money" Can Buy

[CronoCloud]

I'll grant you the mouse, it's analog, but never WASD (or other keyboard control for action games). Keyboard controls sucked for action games in 1983 and they still suck now. WASD is a kludge that is still used out of tradition and the fact that PC gamers refuse to use analog joysticks for movement, although they did do so, back in the old days.

Oh!

[Anonymous Coward]

So that explains why Paul McCartney could never get laid! Or, just maybe, your experience is atypical?

Re:What about a small, silent, low-power FF XI box

[Tarwn]

My last gaming rig I went with an Antec P180 and an Enermax Silencer 2 PSU. XP 3400-ish, 2GB, 7800GTX OC (getting a bit dated now). It's not silent but you can't even hear it next to the $150 linux box next to it. If it's the only thing running there is a very quiet sound of air moving in the background. I found the case and the PSU made the biggest sound difference, everything else in the box can either be turned down (antec 3-speed fans) or replaced cheaply (quieter 40mm fan $8, quieter CPU fan $12). The other main noise point I used to have was the HDD, but most newer drives use something like fluid dynamic bearings and the P180 has silicone pads around just about everything to kill vibrations.

How about an investment in planned digestion?

[Clovis42]

A-ha! Once again the sandwich-heavy portfolio pays off for the hungry investor!

Re:The Best Gaming "PC Money" Can Buy

[Fross]

I agree with you, but bear in mind WASD is not used for that these days - it's simply forward/back and strafe. But more importantly than that, it gives access to 15-20 other keys surrounding it giving more functionality than even the most finger-spraining console pad.

Re:The Best Gaming "PC Money" Can Buy

[C0vardeAn0nim0]

i disagree. i've been playing 1st person shooters since doom I, and i never got a good grasp of the mouse/keyboard. what bothers me most is that i kept hitting surrounding keys that sometimes caused problems.

now, with quake wars on the PS3, my performance is a lot better than in other quakes.

summing it up, it's not the control itself that'll determine performance, it's how comfortable the player feels with it.

Re:The Best Gaming "PC Money" Can Buy

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why the PS3 comes with USB ports and support for Bluetooth mice and keyboards.

Building vs. buying

[jamyskis]

I'll be honest. I've never bought a gaming PC. My very first PC back in 2001 (I was an Amiga faithful until that point) was an Athlon 800 intended for work. I started out gaming on that, and when that died I went over to a self-built Athlon 1800. The point is that I've never spent more than 600â on a self-built PC and they have always done me good for 3-4 years. The only game I have ever had problems with was Crysis, which was absolutely absurd in its requirements anyway. I'll be damned if I could understand why people pay 1500â for a machine that is worth half that because it has Windows and about 800â of "free" software that they will probably never touch (classic - Microsoft Office on a gaming machine)