Lets assume for the moment I take your supposition that minors are not afforded the same rights as the rest of us.
There's been NO time in this thread that I've ever said they have NONE of the rights and privileges adults enjoy. Feel free to show me where, if you believe so.
What I said was they shouldn't have access to ALL those abilities.
You even agreed, and to paraphrase, you said that life experience was needed in most cases. The rest of your rant is based on the assumption that I think minors have no rights, which is a load of horse-hockey.
If you want to know what I think about this kid's rights after school, off-property, in his own home? The school's got no business in his house. While fake profiles are usually tasteless as hell, I once presented [for actual credit] a poem entitled "I Shot My Cat" in 8th grade English. I can't criticize too much...
I'd challenge ANY principal to call me and tell me his/her authority over my sons extends past my front door.
I'd rather them be rich. Being rich is not a mutually exclusive state from mental stability and personality.
Not always....but usually. Take a look at the top money-makers of America and tell me how many you'd consider "normal"...
In fact...being wealthy can relieve you of the stresses and such that being poor can cause you.
No, it just replaces the old set of stresses with new ones. ie, it goes from "Will be have enough to pay the gas bill?" to "Will I make enough of an impression on Lance Hollingsworth III to get invited to the country club mixer?"
I've seen people totally freak out on BOTH these questions.
And, rich or poor....you can be an asshole. Either way, rich is better.
Sure, being a rich asshole is fun.... for the rich asshole...while they're alive.... MAYBE. Just ask Leona Helmsley, Howard Hughes, Kurt Cobain, Andrew Luster, and the Menendez brothers for more on that.
I'd rather be miserable and rich, than miserable and poor.
Just the opposite, here. When rich, you'd find yourself constantly wondering if those around you are there for your stuff, or YOU. Nothing but misery there. When you're poor, however, the answer is usually more straightforward...
Unfortunately some of the ones who can legally vote base their vote on reasons even dumber than that. I also doubt minors would bother to vote in most cases, or if they did they would most likely vote for whoever their parents told them to vote for.
If they can't be bothered to fulfill their civic duty, what're they doing with those rights? As with others I've "incited" to vote, one of the first things I'd tell 'em is NOT to listen to the people they know to make this decision, myself included. Y'know, trying to have 'em THINK about the decision. The blind following common to most teens makes this pretty unlikely.
I'm constantly amazed by the general attitude people seem to have that all children are morons. Children are not morons, they are merely ignorant, something that is easily curable by the application of a little knowledge combined with an inquisitive spirit, something children are known for possessing.
Y'mean they'd need a little "life experience" to overcome such ignorance? I'll buy that. Let's wait for about, oh, I'd say, 18 years? That sounds like enough time to overcome some of the ignorance you mentioned.
a minor can pay bills (assuming they have the money, and actually owe anyone money)
...only if said minor can enter into a contract while under the age of majority. Most cannot. Seriously, try to rent an apartment, get the electricity turned on, or get a car without a co-signer as a 16-year old. Ain't gonna happen, so those bills can't exist in the first place. {note: I'm not including those that have been "emancipated", as the sample population is too small...not to mention, the only person I knew that was emancipated wrote more hot checks than Frank Abagnale...}
a minor can not drink, but many non-minors can not drink as well (minor in this case being defined as someone under the age of 18).
....so we can scratch that "right" off....
a minor does pay taxes, although not all the same taxes as the rest of us. Every time a minor buys something they pay sales tax, the same as the rest of us.
...but not income tax, or the like, unless they're earning a living full-time.... which is illegal under most child-labor laws. Doesn't sound equal to the folks working 50-hour-plus weeks...
A minor can sign a contract, but generally speaking from an enforcement and legal standpoint said contract is more or less useless. Some states will also allow someone over the age of 13 to enter into contractual agreements.
So what you're saying is that MOST companies/states will NOT allow a minor to sign a contract. That just restates what I said above, and doesn't seem to help your case any...
Perhaps it's time to allow minors to vote, they certainly can't do any worse then the legions of adults that are already doing so
Do you have ANY idea what kind of election cost overruns would go to tally the votes for "I.P. Freely"?!?
Like you said earlier, when they have the life experience to make somewhat thoughtful choices, then they can play "adult". Until that point, h'wever, I think we're better off with what we have in place...
Minors have all rights any other citizen of the united states has, however they are afforded special treatment under many laws and regulations (if anything, they have more rights than the rest of us).
My son says much the same. My response?
When a minor can legally pay their bills, legally drink, pay taxes, enter contractual agreements, and vote, then they have the same rights as an adult.
Until that point, h'wever, they do NOT have the same rights, and for darn good reason. Seriously, would you want voters that chose a candidate because "like, Muffy said that Candidate A was like, a total douchebag, because he like TOTALLY ignored her email about her cat, Fluffy...."
This is about someone being malicious against someone else.
Are you saying that we can't express our opinions if it offends ANYone?
If a bully acts like a jerk, I've the right to speak my mind, even if the bully doesn't LIKE it.
Considering the vitriol spewed at/by various users of the 'net, I'd love to see how you consider this any different. Principals, teachers, and other authority figures will ALWAYS be unpopular with certain segments of the kids, and that's just NOT news. Consider [and this will date me] the ol' kids song sung at darn near every elementary/middle school I attended:
{To the tune of the Battle Hymn of the Republic}
My eyes have seen the glory of the burning of the school
We have tortured all the teachers, we have broken every rule,
The burning of the principal's tomorrow after school
Us kids are marching on...
{refrain}
Glory, Glory, Hallelujah,
Teacher hit me with a ruler..
I met her at the Bank
With a US Army tank,
And she ain't my teacher no more!
Nowadays, that song would have you arrested in front of the school for terroristic threats. Yeek.:P
Having to have a CD in the drive is a minor inconvenience. Easily solved (put the CD in the drive. any legitimate user will have one).
I see... Just how how many copies of ONE game should I buy due to disk wear?
I had to buy ANOTHER copy of C&C:Renegade to replace the disk worn from years of use... just so I could PLAY the game I supposedly had rights to play. I wish people would quit assuming that the only people that use no-CD cracks are those that're pirating the game.
Games in the 80's were unique. No one wanted to play a cheap rip-off.
I'll have to disagree here... There were a LOT of ripoffs, and they got played... for what choice did you have? What your local arcade had was what they had.
I find it much more insightful "who" is feeling threatened than anything else. I'll refrain from naming the parties but a moment's inspection will clear that up.
Easy answer: extremists on all sides of the debate. The rest of us are more willing to expand what we know....
Corporations are basically required by law to behave in an untrustworthy way, and even if the individual at the helm of the corporation is trustworthy there are limits to how far they can carry their intentions (however good) through.
Slashdot Mirror
"My life is a lie!" - you at 26.
"My life is a cake!" - you, confused, at 26.
Expect shootouts with lasers...
Easily solved... they just need to stay away from the frickin' sharks.
But they say that a professional working a chainsaw is also pretty skilful, and I don't listen to that for fun either.
I'm guessing you've never heard the solo to "The Lumberjack" by Jackyl... {starts at around 1:37}
I just listened again for fun. Thanks for the reminder!
it is true they dumped their printer and computer divisions to china.
Maybe their PCs went to Lenovo, but they got rid of their printer division LONG ago....
You might know it better by its current name, Lexmark...
An American company, btw...
Lets assume for the moment I take your supposition that minors are not afforded the same rights as the rest of us.
There's been NO time in this thread that I've ever said they have NONE of the rights and privileges adults enjoy. Feel free to show me where, if you believe so.
What I said was they shouldn't have access to ALL those abilities.
You even agreed, and to paraphrase, you said that life experience was needed in most cases. The rest of your rant is based on the assumption that I think minors have no rights, which is a load of horse-hockey.
If you want to know what I think about this kid's rights after school, off-property, in his own home? The school's got no business in his house. While fake profiles are usually tasteless as hell, I once presented [for actual credit] a poem entitled "I Shot My Cat" in 8th grade English. I can't criticize too much...
I'd challenge ANY principal to call me and tell me his/her authority over my sons extends past my front door.
I'd rather them be rich. Being rich is not a mutually exclusive state from mental stability and personality.
Not always....but usually. Take a look at the top money-makers of America and tell me how many you'd consider "normal"...
In fact...being wealthy can relieve you of the stresses and such that being poor can cause you.
No, it just replaces the old set of stresses with new ones. ie, it goes from "Will be have enough to pay the gas bill?" to "Will I make enough of an impression on Lance Hollingsworth III to get invited to the country club mixer?"
I've seen people totally freak out on BOTH these questions.
And, rich or poor....you can be an asshole. Either way, rich is better.
Sure, being a rich asshole is fun.... for the rich asshole...while they're alive.... MAYBE. Just ask Leona Helmsley, Howard Hughes, Kurt Cobain, Andrew Luster, and the Menendez brothers for more on that.
I'd rather be miserable and rich, than miserable and poor.
Just the opposite, here. When rich, you'd find yourself constantly wondering if those around you are there for your stuff, or YOU. Nothing but misery there. When you're poor, however, the answer is usually more straightforward...
Unfortunately some of the ones who can legally vote base their vote on reasons even dumber than that. I also doubt minors would bother to vote in most cases, or if they did they would most likely vote for whoever their parents told them to vote for.
If they can't be bothered to fulfill their civic duty, what're they doing with those rights? As with others I've "incited" to vote, one of the first things I'd tell 'em is NOT to listen to the people they know to make this decision, myself included. Y'know, trying to have 'em THINK about the decision. The blind following common to most teens makes this pretty unlikely.
I'm constantly amazed by the general attitude people seem to have that all children are morons. Children are not morons, they are merely ignorant, something that is easily curable by the application of a little knowledge combined with an inquisitive spirit, something children are known for possessing.
Y'mean they'd need a little "life experience" to overcome such ignorance? I'll buy that. Let's wait for about, oh, I'd say, 18 years? That sounds like enough time to overcome some of the ignorance you mentioned.
a minor can pay bills (assuming they have the money, and actually owe anyone money)
...only if said minor can enter into a contract while under the age of majority. Most cannot. Seriously, try to rent an apartment, get the electricity turned on, or get a car without a co-signer as a 16-year old. Ain't gonna happen, so those bills can't exist in the first place. {note: I'm not including those that have been "emancipated", as the sample population is too small...not to mention, the only person I knew that was emancipated wrote more hot checks than Frank Abagnale...}
a minor can not drink, but many non-minors can not drink as well (minor in this case being defined as someone under the age of 18).
....so we can scratch that "right" off....
a minor does pay taxes, although not all the same taxes as the rest of us. Every time a minor buys something they pay sales tax, the same as the rest of us.
...but not income tax, or the like, unless they're earning a living full-time.... which is illegal under most child-labor laws. Doesn't sound equal to the folks working 50-hour-plus weeks...
A minor can sign a contract, but generally speaking from an enforcement and legal standpoint said contract is more or less useless. Some states will also allow someone over the age of 13 to enter into contractual agreements.
So what you're saying is that MOST companies/states will NOT allow a minor to sign a contract. That just restates what I said above, and doesn't seem to help your case any...
Perhaps it's time to allow minors to vote, they certainly can't do any worse then the legions of adults that are already doing so
Do you have ANY idea what kind of election cost overruns would go to tally the votes for "I.P. Freely"?!?
Like you said earlier, when they have the life experience to make somewhat thoughtful choices, then they can play "adult". Until that point, h'wever, I think we're better off with what we have in place...
Rye.
RCatchy 'er!e ;)
Remember, in real life, more often than not...it is who you know, not what you know.
So would you rather your kid be rich, self-centered and neurotic, or not-so-rich, mentally receptive, and stable?
M'self, I'll choose option number 2...
Minors have all rights any other citizen of the united states has, however they are afforded special treatment under many laws and regulations (if anything, they have more rights than the rest of us).
My son says much the same. My response?
When a minor can legally pay their bills, legally drink, pay taxes, enter contractual agreements, and vote, then they have the same rights as an adult.
Until that point, h'wever, they do NOT have the same rights, and for darn good reason. Seriously, would you want voters that chose a candidate because "like, Muffy said that Candidate A was like, a total douchebag, because he like TOTALLY ignored her email about her cat, Fluffy...."
We were just hedging our bets...
This is about someone being malicious against someone else.
Are you saying that we can't express our opinions if it offends ANYone?
If a bully acts like a jerk, I've the right to speak my mind, even if the bully doesn't LIKE it.
Considering the vitriol spewed at/by various users of the 'net, I'd love to see how you consider this any different. Principals, teachers, and other authority figures will ALWAYS be unpopular with certain segments of the kids, and that's just NOT news. Consider [and this will date me] the ol' kids song sung at darn near every elementary/middle school I attended:
{To the tune of the Battle Hymn of the Republic}
My eyes have seen the glory of the burning of the school
We have tortured all the teachers, we have broken every rule,
The burning of the principal's tomorrow after school
Us kids are marching on...
{refrain}
Glory, Glory, Hallelujah,
Teacher hit me with a ruler..
I met her at the Bank
With a US Army tank,
And she ain't my teacher no more!
Nowadays, that song would have you arrested in front of the school for terroristic threats. Yeek. :P
Ok, then who wins?
Entropy, in the long run...
Guh, can't believe I had to explain that. I'm either very very very smart, or have very very very little of a life.
Welcome to the state of things on This Island Earth...
Adhering to the truth makes one reputable... and every REAL reputable gaming site acknowledges Vista is the best platform for gaming.
Links/citations, please?
Having to have a CD in the drive is a minor inconvenience. Easily solved (put the CD in the drive. any legitimate user will have one).
I see... Just how how many copies of ONE game should I buy due to disk wear?
I had to buy ANOTHER copy of C&C:Renegade to replace the disk worn from years of use... just so I could PLAY the game I supposedly had rights to play. I wish people would quit assuming that the only people that use no-CD cracks are those that're pirating the game.
Games in the 80's were unique. No one wanted to play a cheap rip-off.
I'll have to disagree here... There were a LOT of ripoffs, and they got played... for what choice did you have? What your local arcade had was what they had.
This is why I am a mathematician and not a scientist. So much science is high priced sensationalist bullcrap....
Silly question: If you're NOT a scientist, how can you tell it's high-priced sensationalist bullcrap, especially the more esoteric work?
I find it much more insightful "who" is feeling threatened than anything else. I'll refrain from naming the parties but a moment's inspection will clear that up.
Easy answer: extremists on all sides of the debate. The rest of us are more willing to expand what we know....
You are assuming TCP.
I try to never assume; everyone knows that every time you assume, you make an ass of Uma Thurman.
I was actually thinking serial communication, especially with legacy systems.
It is a one way connection to the historian server.
Truly one-way? Not even ONE packet is sent from the historian to ACK receipt?
Corporations are basically required by law to behave in an untrustworthy way, and even if the individual at the helm of the corporation is trustworthy there are limits to how far they can carry their intentions (however good) through.
Which law(s), if I may be so bold to ask?
Do you suppose Congress is going to vote to throw all that work away rather than continue development?
Why not? Congress did it with the Superconducting Super Collider...
I just hope it isn't someone from that LHC Rap.
C'mon...you KNOW you want to see alpinekat {aka Katherine McAlpine} in a Wonder Woman outfit...
Lets define the daily "work period" as: "three hours after sunrise to three hours before sunrise".
That's great, unless ya live in Barrow, Alaska...
Better have a caffeine stash ready by mid-June!