Mods, please mod my post either offtopic or troll.
In honor of Penumbra (one of the creepiest and most atmospheric games ever created) being a part of the Humble Indie Bundle, I wrote up a review. I highly suggest you play it, it's a fantastic series.
I fully support anyone making it easier, whether it be for the hobbyist, professional mechanic, or just Joe Blow changing his own oil.
We had an offroad friend that put up the investment to rent the machinery necessary to manufacture frames for mid-to-late 70's FJ-40 landcruisers, since it's so difficult to find them. He also manufactured a self-designed solid axle swap kit (utilizing a Dana 44) for second and third-gen 4Runners. You needed solid welding skills to install it, but he still had all the parts made for you...if you could weld, it was a matter of chopping out the IFS and welding in the new parts. Fit perfectly.
Made a nice little profit before deciding it was taking up too much of his time...but literally hundreds of FJ-40 and 4Runner offroading enthusiasts benefitted from the contributions he made in his spare time.
Yes, you can buy the tools. But how do you justify buying a $30,000 TestBook system (yes, that is how much it cost, and that is what it was called) that, for the most part, is only useful for resetting EAS Fault codes? That didn't happen over the last 5 years, it happened in late 1995. But this is just for the Land Rover line. Say you need to deal with BMW? Or M-B? You need more units. Even if a small independent repair shop bought all these tools (easily adding up to over $100,000 in addition to all the standard tools necessary to do repairs), they would need to recoup the costs. Land Rover authorized dealers only need to deal with ONE analyzer, so they can afford it. That's the whole point. For BMW and M-B, third party analyzers are available, but not upon the debut of the new model. And with every new model released almost these days, you either need to update the analyzer, or get a new one.
So... you were lucky that you never needed to reset a code to get something working again. That is not the norm. The whole point is to make sure that it is almost unattainable for most mechanics, while marginally avoiding regulators that would want to pound the manufacturers into obedience.
Doy. My turn to apologize. We had tools to read codes and reset them off things like Beemers, Rovers, etc...but yes, there were a few times where we encountered codes which required us to refer the customer to a dealer. This didn't happen often, as people didn't tend to bring european cars to us for heavy diagnosis (generally just brake and exhaust work, sometimes the occasional clutch replacement...Japanese and American cars were brought to us for just about any reason you can imagine, from engine swaps to transmission rebuilds to even main wire harness replacements.)
I'm willing to bet that you've never worked in a shop either, or at least not one that needs to deal with European vehicles. Proprietary ECU lock-up is a very real problem for non-dealer mechanics, hobbyists, and owners in general.
Actually, I did, for nearly four years before I had to quit due to injury...and I had all of the tools necessary to read those codes. The equipment is out there...you just have to be willing to put out the cash for it.
Unless something huge has changed in the five years since I stopped working in a shop, we were able to pull codes from European cars with no problem.
but in this thread the person says the dealer is charging them $100 just to read the codes. Wow, expensive.
When I worked in a shop, we did the same thing...we would charge people $85 to read the code. However, if the person decided to have their car fixed according to what had caused the code to trip in the first place, we would take that $85 off the cost of their final bill, effectively giving them the code scan for free. If they didn't want to get the work done because they were a tight-ass, you bet we charged them to do it (we would sometimes waive the fee if it was obvious the person just didn't have the money...wanting us to pull the code for your and not being able to afford the fix are two very different situations.)
Shops charge obscene amounts of money to scan your car because it causes them to step away from cars that they are actually making money on. You know that phrase time is money? No where is it more true than with a car shop. If you want your code read for free, go to an Autozone...we're there to identify what is wrong with your vehicle and fix it.
There are a bunch of different devices you can use to check OBD II codes. I generally point hobby mechanics and people that do their own maintenance to use something like this. An OBD II code is an OBD II code is an OBD II code...if you are just trying to pull the code and then clear the light without doing any other on-board diagnostics, you shouldn't spend more than $50 on a scanner. If you do, you just bought something that does more than you need.
As has been the case for a while, Snap-On still sells the ultimate scanner. Most professionals wouldn't even have a need for this monster...but holy crap, when you need something like it, there is nothing else on the market that works better.
NOOO!!!! You were doing so well, with such an awesome post...and you had to pull the ol' Vehicle Identification Number Number bit, didn't you? DIDN'T YOU?!?!?!?!
p.s. Cars only have one VIN. It isn't just in the ECU, it's also stamped on the original engine, the transmission, the frame, and on a plate on the dashboard (at least in the US)
Its hard enough as it is for repair shops to work on engines and electronics without adding security, which would make repairs even more proprietary and expensive.
No offense intended, so please don't take this as such. Mods, please mod offtopic:
You haven't worked in a shop before, have you? Whether you have a cheap OBDII scanner or a full-blown diagnostic tool, so long as the car uses OBDII, you can pull codes from it and subsequently replace the fouled O2 sensor, know which cylinder had a misfire, etc. The full-blown diagnostic tools are useful for crazy-hard problems to solve, but your average scanner bought at Autozone is sufficient enough for the vast majority of code-related problems you would encounter.
Also, I got news for you: electrical problems have been a bitch to deal with for literally decades. There isn't really anything that could make them more frustrating to deal with...they are already at that point due to the nature of electricity and the amount of wiring in a car.
If you take your vehicle in because your check engine light is on and you need the diagnostic code pulled, and the shop tells you it's difficult...take your car to another shop. Sure, there are some brands (BMW, for example) that have propriety connectors, but for most of the cars out on the road, their ECU can be accessed using the same tool.
...no matter how insecure they are, until hackers find a way to wirelessly connect to my car that doesn't have a wireless connection, I'm not going to worry.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to make sure some crazy ex-girlfriend doesn't have something stuffed in my OBDII port. "Your mom's OBDII port is stuffed!" Dammit! Almost made it without the mom joke...
If they offered the option of a subscription service, and in return I got no advertising and had complete control over my privacy settings, I would totally do it. I use Facebook a lot, not just to interact with my friends, but to get the word out about updates to my website and new music tracks I make. $5-$10 a month for something as ubiquitous as Facebook would be well worth the money, in my opinion.
It strikes me that leaving an apartment//home unlocked when you know you have a gun in it could be construed as reckless behavior. Owning a gun is a right, but you have an obligation to practice that right in a responsible manner.
Agreed. We have a gun safe for most of our firearms, as well as one of those mini-safes with the four-button combination lock under our bed.
My fiancee jokes that we don't need that one for home protection, as the the combination of what she looks like after being woken up and my breath upon waking, we already have deadly weapons:p
So does this mean if I accidentally leave our apartment unlocked one morning, someone breaks in, steals one of our daggers or guns, and commits a crime...that we could be charged for aiding a criminal?
See, I like this idea...but the Google redesign is kinda nasty. I don't know if they are trying to emulate the way Bing looks, or if they are trying to fix something that wasn't broken...but something about it just isn't right.
I know that doesn't make sense, considering that search results are MUCH less cluttered now than they were before...but something about it just doesn't feel like Google:/
I don't have much time. Listen. The iPhone controls minds. It makes people swoon over otherwise average hardware and limited capabilities. People love iPhones because of the apps, but the phone itself is a piece of shi- *NO CARRIER*
He's so bright and milky white / Shining down upon the ground / He's the bright, milky white / Shining down upon the ground / Everybody look at the moon / Everybody seein' the moon / The moon is bright / He's milky white / Everybody look at the moon / Uh!::smiles::
Heey! I did a song! Jupiter, I did a song! You ain't got one! Heey!
Slashdot Mirror
Mods, please mod my post either offtopic or troll.
In honor of Penumbra (one of the creepiest and most atmospheric games ever created) being a part of the Humble Indie Bundle, I wrote up a review. I highly suggest you play it, it's a fantastic series.
their marketting team is amazing (hate to admit it),
When you consider who they primarily market to, this isn't really saying much...
That's because Steve Jobs touches you at night^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H rips your dick off with his devil horns
then end with Godwin's grits...
Fixed that for you
I fully support anyone making it easier, whether it be for the hobbyist, professional mechanic, or just Joe Blow changing his own oil.
We had an offroad friend that put up the investment to rent the machinery necessary to manufacture frames for mid-to-late 70's FJ-40 landcruisers, since it's so difficult to find them. He also manufactured a self-designed solid axle swap kit (utilizing a Dana 44) for second and third-gen 4Runners. You needed solid welding skills to install it, but he still had all the parts made for you...if you could weld, it was a matter of chopping out the IFS and welding in the new parts. Fit perfectly.
Made a nice little profit before deciding it was taking up too much of his time...but literally hundreds of FJ-40 and 4Runner offroading enthusiasts benefitted from the contributions he made in his spare time.
Yes, you can buy the tools. But how do you justify buying a $30,000 TestBook system (yes, that is how much it cost, and that is what it was called) that, for the most part, is only useful for resetting EAS Fault codes? That didn't happen over the last 5 years, it happened in late 1995. But this is just for the Land Rover line. Say you need to deal with BMW? Or M-B? You need more units. Even if a small independent repair shop bought all these tools (easily adding up to over $100,000 in addition to all the standard tools necessary to do repairs), they would need to recoup the costs. Land Rover authorized dealers only need to deal with ONE analyzer, so they can afford it. That's the whole point. For BMW and M-B, third party analyzers are available, but not upon the debut of the new model. And with every new model released almost these days, you either need to update the analyzer, or get a new one.
So... you were lucky that you never needed to reset a code to get something working again. That is not the norm. The whole point is to make sure that it is almost unattainable for most mechanics, while marginally avoiding regulators that would want to pound the manufacturers into obedience.
Doy. My turn to apologize. We had tools to read codes and reset them off things like Beemers, Rovers, etc...but yes, there were a few times where we encountered codes which required us to refer the customer to a dealer. This didn't happen often, as people didn't tend to bring european cars to us for heavy diagnosis (generally just brake and exhaust work, sometimes the occasional clutch replacement...Japanese and American cars were brought to us for just about any reason you can imagine, from engine swaps to transmission rebuilds to even main wire harness replacements.)
We were both wrong:-)
I'm willing to bet that you've never worked in a shop either, or at least not one that needs to deal with European vehicles. Proprietary ECU lock-up is a very real problem for non-dealer mechanics, hobbyists, and owners in general.
Actually, I did, for nearly four years before I had to quit due to injury...and I had all of the tools necessary to read those codes. The equipment is out there...you just have to be willing to put out the cash for it.
Unless something huge has changed in the five years since I stopped working in a shop, we were able to pull codes from European cars with no problem.
but in this thread the person says the dealer is charging them $100 just to read the codes. Wow, expensive.
When I worked in a shop, we did the same thing...we would charge people $85 to read the code. However, if the person decided to have their car fixed according to what had caused the code to trip in the first place, we would take that $85 off the cost of their final bill, effectively giving them the code scan for free. If they didn't want to get the work done because they were a tight-ass, you bet we charged them to do it (we would sometimes waive the fee if it was obvious the person just didn't have the money...wanting us to pull the code for your and not being able to afford the fix are two very different situations.)
Shops charge obscene amounts of money to scan your car because it causes them to step away from cars that they are actually making money on. You know that phrase time is money? No where is it more true than with a car shop. If you want your code read for free, go to an Autozone...we're there to identify what is wrong with your vehicle and fix it.
There are a bunch of different devices you can use to check OBD II codes. I generally point hobby mechanics and people that do their own maintenance to use something like this. An OBD II code is an OBD II code is an OBD II code...if you are just trying to pull the code and then clear the light without doing any other on-board diagnostics, you shouldn't spend more than $50 on a scanner. If you do, you just bought something that does more than you need.
As has been the case for a while, Snap-On still sells the ultimate scanner. Most professionals wouldn't even have a need for this monster...but holy crap, when you need something like it, there is nothing else on the market that works better.
or changing the VIN numbers or whatever
NOOO!!!! You were doing so well, with such an awesome post...and you had to pull the ol' Vehicle Identification Number Number bit, didn't you? DIDN'T YOU?!?!?!?!
p.s. Cars only have one VIN. It isn't just in the ECU, it's also stamped on the original engine, the transmission, the frame, and on a plate on the dashboard (at least in the US)
www.obd-codes.com is your friend.
Its hard enough as it is for repair shops to work on engines and electronics without adding security, which would make repairs even more proprietary and expensive.
No offense intended, so please don't take this as such. Mods, please mod offtopic:
You haven't worked in a shop before, have you? Whether you have a cheap OBDII scanner or a full-blown diagnostic tool, so long as the car uses OBDII, you can pull codes from it and subsequently replace the fouled O2 sensor, know which cylinder had a misfire, etc. The full-blown diagnostic tools are useful for crazy-hard problems to solve, but your average scanner bought at Autozone is sufficient enough for the vast majority of code-related problems you would encounter.
Also, I got news for you: electrical problems have been a bitch to deal with for literally decades. There isn't really anything that could make them more frustrating to deal with...they are already at that point due to the nature of electricity and the amount of wiring in a car.
If you take your vehicle in because your check engine light is on and you need the diagnostic code pulled, and the shop tells you it's difficult...take your car to another shop. Sure, there are some brands (BMW, for example) that have propriety connectors, but for most of the cars out on the road, their ECU can be accessed using the same tool.
That's what she said.
She says a lot of things...that ungrateful biznatch...
...no matter how insecure they are, until hackers find a way to wirelessly connect to my car that doesn't have a wireless connection, I'm not going to worry.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to make sure some crazy ex-girlfriend doesn't have something stuffed in my OBDII port. "Your mom's OBDII port is stuffed!" Dammit! Almost made it without the mom joke...
If they offered the option of a subscription service, and in return I got no advertising and had complete control over my privacy settings, I would totally do it. I use Facebook a lot, not just to interact with my friends, but to get the word out about updates to my website and new music tracks I make. $5-$10 a month for something as ubiquitous as Facebook would be well worth the money, in my opinion.
Anyone know what Google is planning on stuffing in their new tablet?
Snake?
It done been brought!
It strikes me that leaving an apartment//home unlocked when you know you have a gun in it could be construed as reckless behavior. Owning a gun is a right, but you have an obligation to practice that right in a responsible manner.
Agreed. We have a gun safe for most of our firearms, as well as one of those mini-safes with the four-button combination lock under our bed.
My fiancee jokes that we don't need that one for home protection, as the the combination of what she looks like after being woken up and my breath upon waking, we already have deadly weapons :p
So does this mean if I accidentally leave our apartment unlocked one morning, someone breaks in, steals one of our daggers or guns, and commits a crime...that we could be charged for aiding a criminal?
See, I like this idea...but the Google redesign is kinda nasty. I don't know if they are trying to emulate the way Bing looks, or if they are trying to fix something that wasn't broken...but something about it just isn't right.
I know that doesn't make sense, considering that search results are MUCH less cluttered now than they were before...but something about it just doesn't feel like Google :/
::hushed whisper::
I don't have much time. Listen. The iPhone controls minds. It makes people swoon over otherwise average hardware and limited capabilities. People love iPhones because of the apps, but the phone itself is a piece of shi- *NO CARRIER*
There are a BUNCH of really interesting, truly nerdy stories in the firehouse...why does crap like this always find a way through?
He's so bright and milky white / Shining down upon the ground / He's the bright, milky white / Shining down upon the ground / Everybody look at the moon / Everybody seein' the moon / The moon is bright / He's milky white / Everybody look at the moon / Uh! ::smiles::
Heey! I did a song! Jupiter, I did a song! You ain't got one! Heey!
pfft. She would need a portable electron microscope. lol, you thought a magnifying glass would be eno-
Oh wait. You were talking about me.