Nothing you've said in any way refutes what I said nor does it support the claim that I was responding to - that there would be no computer industry without the guys you mention.
Your statements don't even make sense - DEC's products were general purpose computers, some of which were engineered in such as way as to be especially useful in a lab setting, but nonetheless general purpose computers. Yet you claim the guy who founded the company in the 50's and ran it for decades thought computers were "snake oil."
Oh and the connection between Ken Olsen and "Snake Oil" was his reference to, in his opinion, certain vendors of Unix systems presenting Unix as a panacea - that promoting this attitude was like selling snake oil. That was in the 80's long after the era under discussion.
As for IBM - I was running APL on, iirc, a 360/50 and I can tell you that was effective time-sharing and it did not require VM. There was also CAI running off the same machine driving dozens of interactive terminals on campus.
And let's not forget the contributions of other companies like Univac. Oh and Burroughs who introduced the stack architecture in its 1961 B5000 - gee I wonder if anybody is still using machines with stacks? The B5000 was recognized as being far ahead of its time. And at the same time they introduced the use of Algol as the main language of the system - a language that was arguably superior to any other of the time.
Oh and speaking of Algol it was widely used in industry and academia for decades as the standard for describing algorithms and is the original source of many concepts still found in modern languages. The Burroughs version was done by Hoare, Dijkstra and others - you might have heard of them. Or perhaps Naur, Backus, Knuth, Wirth and a host of others you left out when deciding we couldn't have a computer industry with the handful you mention.
Oh and you talk about BCPL, B etc. leading to C. Well CPL (of which BCPL was a stripped down version), Simula (Algol+Classes), Pascal, Scheme and Ada were all Algol influenced languages. BNF was a direct result of the development work on ALGOL.
And if you think the military wouldn't have driven the creation of a computer industry all by itself you are mistaken.
There's so much more... but that's all the time I'm gonna spend on you.
Lastly, as for your "stfu"... good god how old are you? Twelve? Your idolisation of some people, apparent ignorance of others and attempts at sweeping prognostication based on nothing is just juvenile. Please, grow up.
In Canada Rogers/Fido use 850/1900. Fido (part of Rogers) uses only 1900 while Rogers uses both. For 3G both use only 850. This is what I've been told - I have no way of knowing how accurate it is.
It would run in less than 64KB. I had it running on a 28KW (16 bit) machine. It is also worth pointing out that at the same time DEC had an operating system for Real-Time computing and one for timesharing - both running in 28KW on PDP-11's and there was TOPS-10 running on the PDP-10 with 256K.
That said, it still was a beast compared to UNIX. UNIX was sly and sleek, and thus supported lower-end hardware better than Multics could. And UNIX was more portable, which eventually made it more widely available.
That's an understatement. In the early 70's I was running Unix on a PDP-11/34 with 28K of ram and a 5MB hard disk, eventually using it to run an Evans & Sutherland PS1.
The guys you mention certainly deserve respect, however I hate to break it to you but there was already a healthy computer industry and it would have continued growing with or without those guys. For just one example from the period there is DEC minicomputers, which were cheap and small compared to the mainframes of the day, had a huge effect on increasing the spread of computers and introducing their use to laboratories. And IBM had TSO for timesharing. IBM also introduced APL, the first interactive language for serious mathematical programming (as opposed to basic which was intended for teaching). No, the industry might have evolved differently but it would have evolved and grown just the same.
Well unfortunately here in Canada the Multiple Listing Service, which almost all Realtors use to advertise real estate for sale, has switched over to Bing from Google and Google maps. It is a large decrease in usability and functionality. But then MLS seems to feel a need to completely change it's public interface for the worse every year or two - I guess they have to or nobody would bother hiring a Realtor.
When you do cardio (especially that slow, "fat-burning" cardio), you burn a few calories, and when you step off the machine, you're done.
Actually if you get your metabolic rate up with sustained periods of cardio, usually your target heart rate for 20 minutes, then it doesn't end when you "step off the machine" but remains elevated for the next couple of days.
This is what it comes down to with any language that doesn't deliberately limit the coder with enforced abstraction. Just do not do retarded stuff. And don't let terrible programmers use languages that give them low-level control. Even better - don't let terrible programmers write programs.
Ok, so now we're down to about me and 99 other programmers being allowed to program. What shall we do now? What's that? Raise our rates??? Wellll ok then!
Well you are always better off to eliminate as many wrong answers as possible of course. But the statement was "Now you are down to two possible answers. (Statistically you should not ever get less than 50% on a test.)" Now "not ever" means worst case you should get at least 50%. But if you are just guessing between the two remaining answers (remember: worst case) then on 100 questions you will be right half the time getting you 50 points, and you will be wrong 50% of the time getting you -50 points giving you a net score of 0. If you are phenomenally lucky you would guess all 100 correct and get 100. (You would also get 100 if you were sufficiently educated.)
So in the case of penalization for wrong answers the claim that "you should not ever [emphasis mine] get less than 50% on a test" is simply wrong.
Now in the other case posited, that the penalty is an inverse function of the number of possible answers you get this: smart test taker eliminates the two obviously wrong answers and chooses between the other two. If they don't know what they are doing then out of 100 questions they will get 50 right for 50 points and 50 wrong for 50* (1/4)*-1 = -12.5 points giving a total of 37.5 out of 100 - again the statement about never getting worse than 50% on a test is simply wrong in the case of penalization for incorrect answers - which I believe was my original point.
The GP was claiming "Statistically you should not ever get less than 50% on a [multiple choice] test." based on the assertion that you could eliminate half the answers to a question as obviously wrong and then at worst guess between the two remaining answers. But with penalties for wrong answers then simply guessing between the two most likely candidates will in fact get you an average score of 0. Which of course is why they penalize wrong answers.
Well I think it is also true that "not so smart" people tend to distrust those who are obviously smarter than them. My guess is that this is rooted in a feeling that if someone is noticeably smarter than you then you may start thinking along the lines of "Hey, how would I kow if this guy was BS'ing me? I can't trust him because I can't tell if what he says is true or not."
Also while it is trendy these days to jump on the "high IQ doesn't mean you are smart" bandwagon I think it is worth stopping for a moment to consider what skills are measured by IQ tests. Memory. Pattern Recognition. Basic Logic. And so on. Could you be considered smart if you do poorly on all these? Let's not reach for the 1 in 10,000 person who might be a counter-example but instead consider the average person - if they have poor memory, poor logic, poor pattern recognition etc. could you actually consider them smart and if so by what definition of the word smart?
In Canada there is Interac where you can send money by email - I assume there is something similar in the US. An Interac transfer is as good as a wire transfer - i.e. when the money gets to your account it is yours period. There is also HyperWallet which is popular with the credit unions and some other institutions.
Haven't dictionaries and encyclopaedias been doing this for decades? Putting in fake words (dictionaries) and articles about made-up things in order to be able to prove copyright infringement by competitors?
I think Ubuntu needs more work on existing features/apps instead of introducing new features/apps each release. Most people do not want to spend time relearning how to do tasks they already know how to do - they want things to work better, not differently (and yes, I know sometimes you can get both).
Hey, watch it! Don't go bad mouthing beer... nerds can booze it up too ya know. Being smart and getting drunk are not mutually exclusive. Neither is being smart and strippers. Or a whole host of other fun things. Despite what popular culture tells us being smart doesn't (have to) mean being a weenie.
...fuck... fuck... fucking... fuckity fuck fuck.. fuck... fuck your fetishization of the industrial age as all we should aspire to. welcome the poorer, more mellower american age. time to step off the world stage as its master, and fuck you to those of you who think we need to stay in that role for some reason
That mellow you kept talking about? You might want to try a little of that yourself. I'm just sayin...
Slashdot Mirror
Your statements don't even make sense - DEC's products were general purpose computers, some of which were engineered in such as way as to be especially useful in a lab setting, but nonetheless general purpose computers. Yet you claim the guy who founded the company in the 50's and ran it for decades thought computers were "snake oil."
Oh and the connection between Ken Olsen and "Snake Oil" was his reference to, in his opinion, certain vendors of Unix systems presenting Unix as a panacea - that promoting this attitude was like selling snake oil. That was in the 80's long after the era under discussion.
As for IBM - I was running APL on, iirc, a 360/50 and I can tell you that was effective time-sharing and it did not require VM. There was also CAI running off the same machine driving dozens of interactive terminals on campus.
And let's not forget the contributions of other companies like Univac. Oh and Burroughs who introduced the stack architecture in its 1961 B5000 - gee I wonder if anybody is still using machines with stacks? The B5000 was recognized as being far ahead of its time. And at the same time they introduced the use of Algol as the main language of the system - a language that was arguably superior to any other of the time.
Oh and speaking of Algol it was widely used in industry and academia for decades as the standard for describing algorithms and is the original source of many concepts still found in modern languages. The Burroughs version was done by Hoare, Dijkstra and others - you might have heard of them. Or perhaps Naur, Backus, Knuth, Wirth and a host of others you left out when deciding we couldn't have a computer industry with the handful you mention.
Oh and you talk about BCPL, B etc. leading to C. Well CPL (of which BCPL was a stripped down version), Simula (Algol+Classes), Pascal, Scheme and Ada were all Algol influenced languages. BNF was a direct result of the development work on ALGOL.
And if you think the military wouldn't have driven the creation of a computer industry all by itself you are mistaken.
There's so much more... but that's all the time I'm gonna spend on you.
Lastly, as for your "stfu" ... good god how old are you? Twelve? Your idolisation of some people, apparent ignorance of others and attempts at sweeping prognostication based on nothing is just juvenile. Please, grow up.
In Canada Rogers/Fido use 850/1900. Fido (part of Rogers) uses only 1900 while Rogers uses both. For 3G both use only 850. This is what I've been told - I have no way of knowing how accurate it is.
It would run in less than 64KB. I had it running on a 28KW (16 bit) machine. It is also worth pointing out that at the same time DEC had an operating system for Real-Time computing and one for timesharing - both running in 28KW on PDP-11's and there was TOPS-10 running on the PDP-10 with 256K.
That said, it still was a beast compared to UNIX. UNIX was sly and sleek, and thus supported lower-end hardware better than Multics could. And UNIX was more portable, which eventually made it more widely available.
That's an understatement. In the early 70's I was running Unix on a PDP-11/34 with 28K of ram and a 5MB hard disk, eventually using it to run an Evans & Sutherland PS1.
The guys you mention certainly deserve respect, however I hate to break it to you but there was already a healthy computer industry and it would have continued growing with or without those guys. For just one example from the period there is DEC minicomputers, which were cheap and small compared to the mainframes of the day, had a huge effect on increasing the spread of computers and introducing their use to laboratories. And IBM had TSO for timesharing. IBM also introduced APL, the first interactive language for serious mathematical programming (as opposed to basic which was intended for teaching). No, the industry might have evolved differently but it would have evolved and grown just the same.
Who is actually using Bing?
Well unfortunately here in Canada the Multiple Listing Service, which almost all Realtors use to advertise real estate for sale, has switched over to Bing from Google and Google maps. It is a large decrease in usability and functionality. But then MLS seems to feel a need to completely change it's public interface for the worse every year or two - I guess they have to or nobody would bother hiring a Realtor.
When you do cardio (especially that slow, "fat-burning" cardio), you burn a few calories, and when you step off the machine, you're done.
Actually if you get your metabolic rate up with sustained periods of cardio, usually your target heart rate for 20 minutes, then it doesn't end when you "step off the machine" but remains elevated for the next couple of days.
This is what it comes down to with any language that doesn't deliberately limit the coder with enforced abstraction. Just do not do retarded stuff. And don't let terrible programmers use languages that give them low-level control. Even better - don't let terrible programmers write programs.
Ok, so now we're down to about me and 99 other programmers being allowed to program. What shall we do now? What's that? Raise our rates??? Wellll ok then!
Are you a fucking retard? C and C++ are bad languages??
Only from an engineering and systems design point of view. Otherwise they're fine.
Bacon makes everything good.
Well you are always better off to eliminate as many wrong answers as possible of course. But the statement was "Now you are down to two possible answers. (Statistically you should not ever get less than 50% on a test.)" Now "not ever" means worst case you should get at least 50%. But if you are just guessing between the two remaining answers (remember: worst case) then on 100 questions you will be right half the time getting you 50 points, and you will be wrong 50% of the time getting you -50 points giving you a net score of 0. If you are phenomenally lucky you would guess all 100 correct and get 100. (You would also get 100 if you were sufficiently educated.)
So in the case of penalization for wrong answers the claim that "you should not ever [emphasis mine] get less than 50% on a test" is simply wrong.
Now in the other case posited, that the penalty is an inverse function of the number of possible answers you get this: smart test taker eliminates the two obviously wrong answers and chooses between the other two. If they don't know what they are doing then out of 100 questions they will get 50 right for 50 points and 50 wrong for 50* (1/4)*-1 = -12.5 points giving a total of 37.5 out of 100 - again the statement about never getting worse than 50% on a test is simply wrong in the case of penalization for incorrect answers - which I believe was my original point.
Just to make it clear: the tests I took deducted "1" for a wrong answer to a question regardless of how many alternatives each question had.
The GP was claiming "Statistically you should not ever get less than 50% on a [multiple choice] test." based on the assertion that you could eliminate half the answers to a question as obviously wrong and then at worst guess between the two remaining answers. But with penalties for wrong answers then simply guessing between the two most likely candidates will in fact get you an average score of 0. Which of course is why they penalize wrong answers.
Tell them we must shut teh treaty down for the sake of the children? Please, won't anyone think of the children?
Maybe he has more important things to think about?
Well I think it is also true that "not so smart" people tend to distrust those who are obviously smarter than them. My guess is that this is rooted in a feeling that if someone is noticeably smarter than you then you may start thinking along the lines of "Hey, how would I kow if this guy was BS'ing me? I can't trust him because I can't tell if what he says is true or not."
Also while it is trendy these days to jump on the "high IQ doesn't mean you are smart" bandwagon I think it is worth stopping for a moment to consider what skills are measured by IQ tests. Memory. Pattern Recognition. Basic Logic. And so on. Could you be considered smart if you do poorly on all these? Let's not reach for the 1 in 10,000 person who might be a counter-example but instead consider the average person - if they have poor memory, poor logic, poor pattern recognition etc. could you actually consider them smart and if so by what definition of the word smart?
I think that is why, at least on the tests I wrote, they took marks off for wrong answers.
In Canada there is Interac where you can send money by email - I assume there is something similar in the US. An Interac transfer is as good as a wire transfer - i.e. when the money gets to your account it is yours period. There is also HyperWallet which is popular with the credit unions and some other institutions.
it may damage your brains.
Apparently to the point where grammar and spelling skills are lost and delusions of having multiple brains set in!
Just out of curiosity how much of that $50K/month is salary? And how does the rest break down?
Of course there are all those GPU's offering orders of magnitude more GFlops than any x86 and being improved at a much faster rate than x86.
Haven't dictionaries and encyclopaedias been doing this for decades? Putting in fake words (dictionaries) and articles about made-up things in order to be able to prove copyright infringement by competitors?
I think Ubuntu needs more work on existing features/apps instead of introducing new features/apps each release. Most people do not want to spend time relearning how to do tasks they already know how to do - they want things to work better, not differently (and yes, I know sometimes you can get both).
Hey, watch it! Don't go bad mouthing beer... nerds can booze it up too ya know. Being smart and getting drunk are not mutually exclusive. Neither is being smart and strippers. Or a whole host of other fun things. Despite what popular culture tells us being smart doesn't (have to) mean being a weenie.
That mellow you kept talking about? You might want to try a little of that yourself. I'm just sayin...