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Verizon Doubles Early Termination Fee and More
An anonymous reader writes "If you buy a smartphone through Verizon, be prepared for an increase in the early termination fee. Verizon is doubling the phone-subsidy to $350. What's more, is that Verizon also actively charges customers for accidental data transmissions of as little as 0.02kb. 'They configure the phones to have multiple easily hit keystrokes to launch 'Get it now' or 'Mobile Web'—usually a single key like an arrow key. [...] The instant you call the function, they charge you the data fee. We cancel these unintended requests as fast as we can hit the End key, but it doesn't matter; they've told me that ANY data--even one kilobyte--is billed as 1MB. The damage is done.'"
I hate Verizon even more now, I didn't think it was possible.
nobody's going read rupert murdoch style crap put behind a subscription barrier.
Can someone get a better link to this magic per-byte billing that people think is actually new to verizon, although it's not?
Meanwhile, Verizon's timing here is horrible. FCC is off reviewing mobile carrier tie in and they are reneging on their own promises to lower the termination fees from years ago. That's about as asinine as it gets. Safe to say, sounds like they are remotely hoping the droid succeeds and mostly hoping it won't.
Do they just throw that away? What a waste.
Is this some kind of hit piece to try and convince people not to use Verizon instead of AT&T? If you use data, it seems reasonable to me to charge a fee even if you just made "a mistake". It's not like international roaming is any more lenient.
As for early termination fees increasing, that's what gets you nice phones for cheap. I don't really see a problem with these fees since they are making phones more affordable given that you would have a phone plan anyway.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
And yet people make fun of me for using a TracFone, for about only $9 per month.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
If you buy a smartphone through Verizon, be prepared for an increase in the early termination fee. Verizon is doubling the phone-subsidy to $350.
You sign a contract with Verizon. Verizon is providing the services. You are contracting with them and saying you will use their services for X years. It's a contract. Breaking a contract is something where both parties agree what the response should be. In this case, Verizon is saying that you are charged $350 if you break your contract and stop paying them what you said you would pay them.
Honestly, I don't see what the deal is. Chances are you are paying what... average of $100 a month for a Verizon plan? So $350 is 3.5 months? Paying 3.5 months for breaking a 24 month contract doesn't seem so unreasonable.
The fact that they ARE using that money to subsidize their "free phone" stuff is irrelevant. If they are able to apply money they get from termination fees to offer cheaper phones and get more customers that way, I see no problem with that.
But... oh well. It's much more interesting to complain about early termination fees as if they are hidden or sneaky or something. As if contracts should be able to be broken by either party without any consequences...
They'll make more now than the class-action will cost later.
that one key leading to charge of 1MB download thingy should be illegal. BY default the keys should come configured to NOT allow data fetch if the subscriber doesn't have a data plan. They charge so much for monthly phone plans and then they nickle & dime their customers like this. What a shame!
I understand, on principle why they charge early termination fees. $350 for a smartphone seems extreme, but taking the new Droid for example, the phone costs $550 without a plan and the customer gets it for $200 which is right in line. What doesn't make sense is the fact that if I cancel my contract 1 year and 11 months in, I'm expected to pay the whole termination fee, despite the fact that Verizon has already made back $335 of it. That's just abussive. Termination fees should be proportional to the amount of the contract you are terminating and capped at the amount of subsidization on the phone.
Just call them and say, "Hey, I would like to have all data services blocked on my account." When I was trying to save a buck that is what I did. The only collateral damage was that I could not receive MMS pictures on my Windows Mobile Smart Phone.
As much as I can bash Verizon for their gestapo-like moves in other areas, at least they've given us the tools to completely disable features like these through account management online. I know this doesn't offer much of a solution for the casual user of these features, but at least it helps with certain users who intend to NEVER use the features.
As far as purposely designing these features on phones that make it VERY easy to accidentally activate and thus get charged for it no matter how quickly you try and shut it off, somehow the words "worthless greedy bloodsucking bastards" doesn't quite cover it.
Don't want to use the data service? There's a scam for that. Want to upgrade your phone? There's a scam for that. No matter what you want to do, we'll get your money. Because there's a scam for that.
people were using the buy one Blackberry get one free promotion, canceling service, and selling that second Blackberry at a profit. What, are you feeling bad because you didn't think of it sooner? So am I :-)
Get a cushion?
I can see the new marketing slogan:
From -
"Can you hear me now?"
and -
"We have a map for that."
Now we'll have -
"Where's my money bitches?"
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
People who make a lot of calls aren't going to come in at $9 per month - pre-paids are only good for people with very low usage.
Also, unlike most other services, with TracFone you don't own your number. You decide to switch carriers and your phone number goes with it. Personally keeping my number is worth quite a bit more than $350. To each his own though.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
Happy Verizon customer here. Just picked up a Motorola Droid... very happy with it!
Motorola Droid Forum
Forum Foundry, Inc.
"'They configure the phones to have multiple easily hit keystrokes to launch 'Get it now' or 'Mobile Web'—usually a single key like an arrow key. [...] The instant you call the function, they charge you the data fee. We cancel these unintended requests as fast as we can hit the End key, but it doesn't matter; they've told me that ANY data--even one kilobyte--is billed as 1MB. The damage is done.'"
I accidentally hit it periodically, and I've never been charged for data. You sure you're not making this up??
I bought a Droid on Friday morning when it came out online. I received it at lunch on Monday, and activated. Upon activation, they made me agree to the 2 year contract re-up, and a $175 early termination fee...
Brawndo: It's what plants crave!
If you don't like the termination fee then you should simply use a competing service. Your choice to use Verizon is voluntary. Eventually the market will dictate what Verizon can charge.
"People who make a lot of calls aren't going to come in at $9 per month - pre-paids are only good for people with very low usage."
And the award for the best stating of the obvious goes to MBGMorden. Take a bow.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Tracfone has a brand, Straight Talk (I have no affiliation and that's not a referral link), with phones available at WalMart with unlimited voice and text plus 30 MB data for $45/30 days. Prepaid being only for low-usage folks is a bygone idea.
Also, unlike most other services, with TracFone you don't own your number.
Google Voice to the rescue.
You have to be mentally deficient to keep renewing contracts with those fucking cellphone carriers. Landline or nothing for me. No fucking hidden costs, no surprises at the end of the month, no need to call them to fix your damn bills every month.
Truly I don't. I have a single cell phone provided by my company. What posses people to waste their cash, signing up for obviously MORONIC contracts? If your company won't pay for your phone, get something without this kind of CRAP from Verizon. I mean really, do you truly need this junk?
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
Using the DROID as an example:
The DROID with no contract is $560.
Math with the current termination fee:
$200 for the phone +
$175 to immediately break your contract =
$375 (You save $185 over the no-contract price)
Math with the new termination fee:
$200 for the phone +
$350 to immediately break your contract =
$550 (You save $10 over the no-contract price)
Either way you save more than simply buying the phone without a contract. The new fee is high, but I can understand their reasoning.
I have a woman and money. Life is good.
I got sent a termination fee bill from Verizon when I left for AT&T/iPhone even though I was past the two-year mark for my contract.
Plus side, Verizon was very good about tossing it out immediately.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
if you have a smartphone on verizon you are REQUIRED to have a smartphone data plan which is "unlimited" (5GB/month), so no 1MB billings.
i know. I have an Omnia on Verizon /employer discounts ftw
If you cannot keep politics out of your moderation remove yourself from the Mod Lottery.. NOW!
Shaka, when the walls fell.
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
To avoid steep termination fees, just put your plan on suspension - costs about $7 a month until the end of the contract.
I'm on T-mobile prepaid and i __love__ it. Yeah, i don't talk much. Verizon doesn't have any kind of cost effective service for customers like me. They lost my business a few years back and it's been wonderful.
I can use any GSM phone i want to, I didn't have to tell t-mobile anything about who i am or how i plan on paying, and i think i pay less in a year than i was paying for 2 months when i had a verizon "share plan" for my wife and I.
Finally -- with google voice [and other number re-direction schemes], the concept of even knowing your mobile number is officially uninteresting. I have been telling people the random southern california phone number i got issued when i bought my SIM card from ebay for a couple years now. Nobody cares what my number is, least of all me. If i want to truly own my number i will abstract my identity from my device, carrier, and location entirely -- like google voice (or skype in, or any other service) lets me do.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
Why, oh why, are the only other two options actually WORSE? Cell phones in The U.S. are a freakin money mining joke.
"They confiscated everything, even the stuff we didn't steal!"
Someone has to pay for all that red on the 3G map
I was able to port the number from a Tracfone to an AT&T phone about a year and a half ago.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Also, unlike most other services, with TracFone you don't own your number. You decide to switch carriers and your phone number goes with it. Personally keeping my number is worth quite a bit more than $350. To each his own though.
According to TracFone's FAQ. They will allow you to transfer your number out of TracFone, but your personal information on the TracFone account must match the information on the new carrier's account. Source
At least with Sprint, if they change your terms of service, you have a set period of time to cancel your contract with them without an early termination fee. As already stated, you and the company have a contract. The company has changed their contract with you while the contract was still in effect. So, you have the ability to cancel w/o any type of fee if you do not agree with the unilateral changes that they made to your TOS. If you agree with the new TOS (or simply don't know that they changed), then they interpret your continuing to use their service as an acknowledgment of the changes they made to the contract and agreement to abide by the new requirements. Many a Sprint customer has gotten out of a contract for free because of minor changes to the TOS. Not sure if anything similar happens w/ Verizon or AT&T.
Fuck you !
P.S.: If you need further assistance with your random bogus phone billing software, please e-mail me:
ktrout@russianflyphishers.ru
Yours In Novorossiysk,
Kilgore Trout
If I buy a smartphone from Verizon and sign a 2-year contract, I'm prepared to keep the phone and service for two years. That's the game and they're setting the rules - if I want to phone and service jump, sure I could prefer not to pay but I can't really find a fault in them wanting me to. Who is this hurting? If you move to a location where you don't get service, they already let you cancel without penalty. How many people actually end up paying the ETF?
Also, I don't know about the data bit either. My old k1m/krzr went to the "mobile web" or get it now if I hit the down arrow. That brought up a launch screen where I could check account settings (for free), purchase a day's worth of mobile browsing, or sign up for mobile web and have it as a recurring payment. I've never been charged for any sort of access for pulling anything down.
People who make a lot of calls aren't going to come in at $9 per month - pre-paids are only good for people with very low usage.
Common misconception. I have unlimited calls and text messages for $39.95/mo with Page Plus Cellular. (On the Verizon network to boot.)
I switched when I got my first $1.99 data fee.
You sign a contract with Verizon. Verizon is providing the services. You are contracting with them and saying you will use their services for X years. It's a contract. [...]
Honestly, I don't see what the deal is.
So what if it's a contract? Does that magically make it unquestionably super-awesome or some sort of natural law like gravity which is pointless to complain about?
The point is that it's an asinine contract and that people are upset with its terms. It would be one thing if Verizon was giving its customers something in exchange for the new terms, but no such benefit is being offered for the higher cost. There are no upsides. People have a right to be upset.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
What could be worse? They seem deliberately design the interface to trap users into triggering this extra usages. I have a Samsung SGH-T509 from T-mobile. Once you take a picture with this phone, it will display "Send to : My Album" with the right (yah, most people are right-handed too) button conveniently displaying "Yes". Every person that ever used my phone, including myself, would almost automatically click Yes; saving to the album sounds like the right thing to do after taking a picture. It turns out My Album is an online service, saving to there initiates a data transmission which is costly if you don't have a data plan. If you want to save locally, you need to click the left button (now labeled "Options",) scroll down to select and click"Send to", scroll down to and click "My photos". I figured this trick out after the first time I hit the Yes button, but still making mistakes from time to time. My wife never seems to remember this trick until it is too late.
You bet the marketing people figured out most people wouldn't want a data plan and need to trick you into sending data. trick or treat.
I though AT&T was bad..(well they are). Looks like Verizon is thanking customers as well with very unfriendly customer service. I am a Sprint customer and I can say they finally seem to be getting it. I recently received unlimited cell to cell (any carrier) from them without having to do anything. Looks like T-Mobile also gets it. I see they have added some nice options to their plans. Unfortunately, they (Sprint and Tmobile) are the small guys now.
My wife let the infant play with her phone, next month we were billed for downloading 3 songs, worst part is it was the same song all three times.
Talked to CS to get it reversed, they said it would be, so far, it hasn't. He's a toddler now.
I'm extremely glad I finally ditched Verizon for Sprint 3 months ago. Sprint has better coverage and better service for cheaper. Even though my workplace provides a Verizon discount, Sprint was still cheaper. Not to mention with my Verizon phones I was lucky to even get a signal in the building I'm in. With my Sprint phone I get 3-4 bars consistently (all my coworkers with Verizon have noted this too). The 3 Sprint users here are the only ones that can get a signal without going outside. Anyway, I digress...I'm paying $15/month less with Sprint, unlimited data, unlimited text/pix, 1500 minutes/month, free nights/weekends, nights/weekends starting at 7pm instead of 9pm, than I was with Verizon, with unlimited text, but no pix, no data, and my company discount. Verizon has terrible phones, terrible service, and they are a ripoff in general. I switched on the advice of my roommate, who has had service with Sprint for 6 years and has never had any issues. Neither of us understand why they have a bad reputation.
I recently got a new phone with AT&T (LG CF360 if anyone cares). It has some buttons similar to the ones that people are complaining about here (one-touch access to an app that auto connects to the net). On top of that, the some of the menu screens can't be modified, so that several apps that I'll never use because they require a data plan, are locked in on the menu.
When I told the AT&T rep of my concerns about accidental data usage, he said they could just disable the data access.
I've hit those one-touch app buttons and accidentally selected "AT&T GPS" or some other app that requires data access, but all I ever get is "Cannot connect to server" or some similar message.
I wonder if Verizon phones have a similar option for people who don't want anything to do with a data plan.
One major problem: they explicitly refuse to disable data.
This seems really unlikely to me, I've not heard of a carrier that will not let you disable the data plan. Although Verizon has a reputation, so perhaps they do... but I would like to see a link to that policy defined.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Check out StraightTalk, Verizon network without the Verizon scam.
Happened to me a couple of times. They try to hard to discourage you from using your data plan (twice the price for buying songs with the phone, rather than with the PC; piping IM into SMS so you need a text messaging plan to IM, etc etc etc). So I cancelled mine, and told them they make it too difficult to actually use it. The 0.2kb charges showed up afterwards, so I called them to bitch, and they removed the charges. I also told them to put a data block on my account so my phone can never use the pay-as-you go data service. Problem solved. If everybody did it, it would cost them a lot of money handling the service requests, and they'd stop doing this.
The only reason this is a problem (for those of us who care) is because people pay their bills automatically and don't even know they are being charged for nothing.
Edith Keeler Must Die
This was news last week. /. and the NYT are a bit slow.
Paying $230 to break a 2-year contract after one year is far cheaper than keeping the phone for another year at $120+ per month...just sayin'.
The problem isn't so much the charge itself. It's just how easy it is to make that mistake.
Then you don't have a problem with Verizon. You have a problem with poor phone UI.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
They and ATT got away with price fixing SMS charges, what makes you think they can't do whatever the hell they please?
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. indymedia
Which is great unless your phone *isn't* a DROID and costs substantially less than $560.
If you actually want to look at the map, yeah we get a buck for that...
Why bother
TracFone's voice service ends up costing me about 14 cents per minute when they dont offer me a bonus code, which is rare.
When you start talking about $350 charges I am thinking well fuck, thats at least 2500 minutes
And you know what happens if I break my phone? I pay $30 for a new one, and I don't even have to argue with anybody.
"His name was James Damore."
but you need to count in the payment for the first month and also the activation fee.
I guess we need another carrier to attack verizon now with a "There's a fee for that..." ad?
Here's the question that matters most though:
a) Do you join At&t just because of the iPhone but with sucky 3G coverage
b) Do you pick Verizon because of better infrastructure?
c) Or do you pick some other guy simply because of the philosophical argument against fee's? Eventhough that other guy may not be pushing technology as hard as the other two?
This is the first I've heard of this practice and I know I accidentally called up a data app using the wheel by accident recently so I checked my bills but there are no data charges on it. Maybe it's because I'm one of those crazy "telephones make phone calls" people and still use a Razr.
Being the kind who would rather be safe than sorry and remembering my old moto phone allowed me to customize what each of those wheel buttons did, I went to go and change it. Trouble is, that phone was bought before Verizon started forcing their standard user interface onto all phone models.
Under the forced Verizon UI the only wheel button that is allowed to be modified is the down button which doesn't map to any of their services by default so not only do you get charged if you accidentally hit the button but you can't even remap or disable the button to ensure you never accidentally press it!
Worse still, according to TFA even if you specifically call Verizon and tell them to disable all data services the very act of pressing the button only to get a message saying you can't access that results in the fee being applied because data was technically transmitted.
I was fully prepared to contact the the FCC, the FTC, the BBB and my government reps about this if I had actually seen these charges but since I haven't I can't verify that this problem actually exists.
If you have been bitten by this then by all means contact the folks above because that's about as abusively scammed as you can get by a major company.
Ha! Ha! Ha! I really screwed Verizon over!!
Hey, wait...
Point is, no matter how much Verizon sells a phone for, that phone can only do one of two things: be used to make Verizon money, or go in the trash. Is it justifiable for a CARRIER-LOCKED PHONE to be contractually *fully* subsidized by the purchaser? If this was AT&T, T-Mobile, etc. I could see the point - I take my phone and run, screwing the company out of money. But with Verizon's phones, regardless of how long I am with them - the phone will keep making them money!
I seriously doubt it,Verizon is still drooling and falling all over itself to get the iPhone. If you actually want to see the map, yeah we get a buck for that.
Why bother
There is a loop-hole to this. I know because I'm currently fighting Verizon over it.
If you live in an area deemed as a "marginal service" area you can exit your contract with no charge. To do this you have to contact Verizon about poor service at your billing address (the one gotcha, I assume this would work if you could find a post-office in an area with bad-service and change your address to a P.O. Box). Once their techs determine that you live in a "marginal service" area you are free to leave your contract with no charge. It only took about 1 hour for them to call me back and say it was a known trouble area.
The part that angers me is they have a repeater that they SELL for $250. I refuse to pay to fix there service so I can continue to pay to use it. Personally this article just highlights another reason why I am switching carriers.
People have a right to be upset.
Of course. As much of a right to be upset as if Starbucks raised their coffee prices "randomly." I just don't think it's really that big of a deal and it's certainly not somehow "unethical" ... IMO ... to raise prices.
Yeah, I have one too.. it's cheaper (unless you make all your calls in Verizon
's network, are on the phone constantly or after 9 PM) and since I got a CDMA Tracfone it uses the Verizon network anyway. (Avoid the GSM ones they are AT&T and don't work anywhere outside of major cities.)
Best thing is that I don't have to deal with any Verizon reps anymore. Everytime I ever did ANYTHING with those wanks they lied about what they were selling me. They may have the best network but their business principles are so bad I'd do without rather than ever giving them another dime.
I suppose indirectly with TracFone I'm giving them some dimes, but it's still better than going direct with those thieves.
Being in the UK my Google Voice account is pretty much useless, but doesn't GV render the changing number issue moot?
It's all fun and games until a 200' robot dinosaur shows up and trashes Neo-Tokyo... Again
I won't ever have a Verizon Wireless phone again. Their billing was at best questionable. I never went over my minutes or used any other features (was in the bill that I did not) but the price of the bill was never the same each month. I am not talking a few bucks either more like 8 to 10 sometimes 12 bucks. I called them on it several times and the representative at their store had no explanation. I cancelled my contract right there.
I have Sprint now and they are really good. However my phone (Samsung Exclaim) has features that if you are not paying attention will connect to their 3G connection. I will give them that at least my phone asks if I want to connect to the system. The LG rant my wife uses doesn't prompt her but connects. Sprint has been very forgiving and erased most of the charges as mistakes. I bet Verizon won't. They are the worst carrier to deal with as far as I am concerned. I used to carry Virgin Mobile and that was good. Uses Sprint service.
I was thinking it would be difficult to justify switching from Verizon when my current contract runs out in 2 months, but now, fuck 'em. I'm gone. I only switched to Verizon from T-mobile because the latter didn't have the Treo I wanted any more. Now they both have advanced Android models. So fuck 'em.
It's a good thing too. It's not like this jacked up rate will apply to me since I purchased my phone quite a few months ago and I have a contract with Verizon... It's not like they can just suddenly change that on me (yeah right.. every company does that shit all the time)
I'm just sick of the fact ALL carriers advertise a plan for $45, data for $30, $15 for texting and then tack on (in my case) an extra $26 and some change as Verizon Fees... which if you read the fine print is used for "improving the network, off-setting tax imposed by government, and paying the fees to local phone system operators". I'm sorry, but shouldn't that be what the god damn plan pays for?!
Basically, Verizon is charging me for the plan, the data, the texting, and also having ME pay their taxes due to the GOVERNMENT. Fuck off Verizon
As a side note, there was a lawsuit against AT&T about pro-rating the early term fee based on how long you've had the phone. Is Verizon going to implement this? You shouldn't be charged $350 at the 18th month to cancel the phone since the $350 is to cover what they subsidized on it. If you terminate at month 2, yes, but month 18? You only have another 4 months before you can do the new for two, and not get charged... so the fee should be reduced to ($350 / 24) * ((# months you had phone) - (may two months))
Linked article requires registration so I didn't read it.
The ETF is prorated on the life of the contract. For each month of service, the ETF is reduced. The focus seems to be that the fee is doubled. What this is discouraging is getting expensive devices at sharp discounts and resell for a profit or do something else that negatively affects Verizon. Of course, to avoid paying more than the old ETF, you'd have to keep service for at least 18 months.
This is to discourage carrier jumping and acquiring expensive devices at a significant discount, not to screw customers. Verizon simply doesn't care about those people trying to screw Verizon.
When you're shopping for a new thing, what you do is: You weigh up the pros and cons of each thing available, compare those against the list of your needs, then pick the most appropriate one.
If affordable early termination is one of your specific needs, then don't buy the phone you're looking at from the provider you're looking at where early termination is a big scam. You have to weigh up the pros and cons and pick what's best for you. There are lots of phone providers, and sure - they all suck. But you pick what best meets your needs.
- And this is why I still don't have a smartphone. Because the cons [such as monthly cost c.f. my current plan] don't add up to be sufficient to meet my needs [such as affordable]. The cons of Apple's iPhone douchebaggery far outweigh the pros of having a phone I could kinda-sorta develop for.
Another simple way to avoid the problem of accidentally hitting the web browser is to remap the web browser button to something else. Even my cheap phone can do that.
Gary (-;
... because that's the thing about a good economic deal, at a certain point, if it's good enough, it can overcome your feelings and prejudices.
So, yeah, I've been thinking that maybe some of Verizon's offerings were good enough that relative to the extra amount of evil I'd have to put up with from them, it might be worthwhile.
Thankfully, though, every time I think about this, Verizon decides to up the level of evil or decrease the potential of the economic bargain.
Thanks Verizon: you and I both know it'd never work. It's good to remind each other.
Tweet, tweet.
I switched to At&t. The reception is worse but I couldn't happier...
I was on Verizon for ten years and they are the worst company I have ever dealt with.
Yeas ago I noted that they had been rated highest in customer service by consumer reports and I just couldn't believe that anyone could be worse.
I suppose they have the bucks for the payoff.
Using the DROID as an example:
The DROID with no contract is $560.
Math with the current termination fee:
$200 for the phone +
$175 to immediately break your contract =
$375 (You save $185 over the no-contract price)
Math with the new termination fee:
$200 for the phone +
$350 to immediately break your contract =
$550 (You save $10 over the no-contract price)
Either way you save more than simply buying the phone without a contract. The new fee is high, but I can understand their reasoning.
Yeah, but what if you buy a cheapo phone and then move to a place where the service sucks and you want to switch?
Now those people are screwed, and I imagine that plenty of people want to terminate for fair reasons like that.
Personally I think the termination fee should be related to the phone you get.
-Taylor
Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
MOD PARENT UP!
I am so glad to have T-Moblie service (and Android for over a year). Not because they have great coverage (it is really good in Atlanta but bad other places), because Verizon does. I am so glad because they give the best customer service, in both the stores and on the phone.
I had huge problems with Verizon refurbished phones not working properly (went through 5 phones in 8 weeks). Three of the five didn't work properly out of the store. The other two had either the speaker or LCD mess up within a week. Every time I went to get a replacement I had to call the 800 number, hand the phone to the desk person so they would give me the replacement. PITA. I ended up forwarding my number to a Pre-Paid T-Mobile phone for 5 months before my contract ended (it was cheaper to pay the $10 a month for the family line, than the $175 break fee). I moved my number the day my contract ended. The other 3 family lines got moved within 5 days.
Sorry for the rant. VerizonWireless, and Comcast will never get a dime from me, they both offer nice products (well just Verizon), but their service is not worth the hassle. I also know a Verizon Wireless employee (accounting) that forgoes the discounted rates also 100% due to the fact their customer service sucks.
My addiction: Arguing with idiots. AKA Slashdot!
I too understand their reasoning: it's called profit.
They pay substantially less than the ticket price ($560) for the phone. So, when you do a purchase and cancel shuffle, and they pocket $550, they will be making the essentially the same profit as an outright purchase would have given them. They essentially lose their $10 bet that you will stick with the plan fees long enough for them to exceed this profit level (happens pretty quickly I expect). The original $375 probably also made them a small profit, but not as handsome, but was essentially a $185 bet you'd stick around.
Clearly the dynamic has changed a little, with people buying phones like fashion accessories and discarding them for the latest fad, rather than buying a phone for (egads!) making/taking phone calls and sticking to a fixed term contract. Seems that this is the logical result of that. Of course, I have never owned a mobile phone, so I could be talking crap.
Patent litigation: A doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction... in which everyone seems willing to push the button
If you don't like the terms of the contract, shop somewhere else? Certainly you have the right to be upset, but why would you give hundreds of dollars a year to a company you're upset with?
+1 Disagree
That's how LNP (Local Number Portability) works. When you get a phone, the law has determined that you own the number, essentially. So you can carry your home phone number over to a cell number with tracfone, and then later take it over to AT&T, should you so desire. Most carrier's will have you set up your new account with them first, let them know where your number is coming from, and they will take care of the transfer. So you do have two accounts with the same number, albeit very briefly.
Which is a VERIZON UI.
My addiction: Arguing with idiots. AKA Slashdot!
T-mobile's pay-as-you-go is 10 cents a minute without any need for code (assuming you put in $100 for 1000 minutes). We've been using it for 9 months and love it.
I come here for the love
The lawsuit will end up failing because they don't have set terms as to what the termination fee is to pay for. We all know that it's to 'pay for the phone' that they subsidized, but also remember that they get the phones for VERY cheap. We're talking $50 for a low end flip phone with a camera on it, and then they tell us that they actually cost them $250. Smart phones are a little different, and the market is opening up, slowly but surely. Still, I know my two year old Treo 755p doesn't cost as much as a decent laptop to produce. It's more like $100. Still, though, the cell companies will tell you that they paid $500+ for it, and will expect you to pay that much.
Anyway.
AT&T has a lot of experience with contract tomfoolery. They'll turn around and say that the early termination fee is to cover many things. The subsidizing of the phone, the 'resources' on the network that you were projected to use but aren't going to be using any more, the administration of your account, the process of disconnecting and freeing up your phone number, etc. Each one of these things SHOULD already be covered in your cell phone bill, but cell phone companies like to think that their monthly fees should be 100% profit, with their operating costs tacked on to each account, to make more money. Kind of like kids that think if they go out and waste their money on an expensive meal, that they're entitled to more allowance money, because of 'expenses'
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
I used T-Moblie pre-paid for about 8 months (10cents/min, plus unlimited internet which was not supposed to happen). I ported my number from Verizon Plan, and then ported it to a T-Mobile plan. No problems.
My addiction: Arguing with idiots. AKA Slashdot!
Verizon's charging for 'accidental' data usage isn't at all 'new', though they may have toughened their stance and are even more determined than before to screw you for brushing the key. The link even points out that back then the customer was billed for data usage for a phone locked in a drawer at the time. Needless to say, it was a backup service that, while being a 'free service', actually costs data, so if you don't have a data plan, signing up for the 'free' contact backup service dinged you for data you didn't sign up for... A new definition of 'free', eh? You can imagine how easy it is to get your phone's data features blocked - not happening.
And the cruel truth is that a $1.99 data charge like these amounts to pure profit. Verizon (and other carriers) would L-O-V-E to be able to increase their profit by $1.99/month PER SUBSCRIBER! This would be a massive win, by any measure!
Thieves.
But cranking up the ETR for smartphones is just plain offensive. T-Mobile is now offering plans that let you buy the phone in installments - of course, if you cancel the contract or terminate service, they expect to be paid. But, sheesh, if you buy a phone from Verizon, ditch your service, and pay the $350, does that cover the balance on the phone? I wonder.
The reality is, we may need to get ready to start buying phones like Europeans do - straight up, no discount. Unlike Europe, however, if you change carriers, you generally NEED a new phone. Verizon & Sprint, etc. use CDMA, so you need an unlocked phone to move from one to the other. AT&T and T-Mobile etc. use GSM, but wait - if you unlock your phone, it won't get 3G data on the 'other' carrier, they use different bands. So GSM phones are no solution until everyone stops with the different bands, which means jiggering the spectrum allocations and licenses, sharing networks, fixing roaming, and doing all sorts of things that they pretty much forced carriers to do in the EU, but are entirely within the competitive arena here.
We're not getting past this problem of locked phones and subsidies any time soon. It is technically not yet feasible, and I see no solution short of consolidating carriers into just two - CDMA & GSM.
And that would be ugly.
Getting some carrier to run the 700MHz spectrum nationwide doesn't solve this. It just adds a third phone type to all the crazyness.
So just get used to even more abusive behavior by the usual abusive carriers. Our only hope is to stop being so addicted to our phones. You go first, ok?
ps- Google is NOT the answer.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
And I pay $100/year for t-mobile to go. This is good for 1000 minutes (I usually use about 700/yr). I have two of these accounts (one is an unlocked iphone the other is a cheap $20 nokia that I take to places where the iphone could get lost/damaged--e.g. river rafting). I really do not see why anybody puts up to these crazy $100+/month charges.
I did a bad thing and got an Iphone and left T-Moble and the smartphone I got free a year prior, since T-Mobile didn't get service in my new home. I called them to cancel, expecting to get a 200$ termination fee, but when I told them why I was canceling, they waived the fee due to my address not being in their coverage area. all they asked was I send them a copy of a bill that shows my name at that address.
Thanks to this treatment, I'll be moving back to T-mobile when/if they ever get 3g coverage in my area. It seems to me that burning your customers on the way out is a sure way to ensure they NEVER come back.
-and occasionaly a giant moose.
searswireless.com (I never thought I'd type a domain with those two words in it) has the DROID for $150 (instead of Verizon's $200), and withOUT the $100 mail in rebate. Just FYI.
Interesting little Verizon Wireless,(VW) fact that I got to experience was an ETF withdrawal for $50 out of my checking account. I don't use VW, but I do subscribe to their FIOS product; so I called the contact number associated with the transaction. Ya it was Verizon, ya it was their Wireless Department. "$50? Out of your account? We don't have a record of that transaction, ah Sir."; the joy in this woman's voice was completely unmistakable. As I got more tert, and pissed, I started to think what had to done on my end of the phone. So I called my Credit Union. "Disputted" the Transaction, now the $50 is back in my account, and Verizon can deal with a Shop Lifting problem. Then I went one step further, I notified my Credit Union NOT TO ACCEPT any more ETF requests directly from Verizon. Seeing how my problem was so funny to Verizon's Wireless staff, I figure it will be even funnier if the only way Verizon can get paid is going through their bank, first. Last month Verizon cashed my check, just like everybody else.
"Contrary to the GP's post, the penalty is, in principle, because of the phone subsidy."
I think that's incorrect.
If you get a $200 phone for $100 because of 2 year agreement, not considering interest, you think, "right, subsidy of about $4.16 per month". But yet, when you hit the 25th month, the monthly service doesn't go down by $4.16. Worse, if you bring your own phone to the carrier, they don't lower the price.
In my opinion, you're getting a subsidy for the difference between the "normal" price and the price with the two year plan because you've committed to a 24 month revenue stream. [That doesn't hold true in the second case though; if you bring your own phone and agree to a 2 year plan, you don't get a break in price]
A fair termination fee would be the difference between the phone price you paid and the phone price without plan subtracting the amount of time that you paid them for the plan. Perhaps that should even be waived if you turn in the phone.
But let's stop playing this game. Carriers charge people a lot of money for everything *because we pay it*. It has nothing to do with right or wrong.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
Please, for the love of God and all that is decent in this world, steer clear of Verizon Wireless!!!
I am a Verizon Wireless customer. They make "horrible customer service" sound like something to aspire to.
They haven't been able to get my bill "right" for months. Every single month there are random charges tacked on, that they cannot explain when I call. Until recently, they've cancelled these charges with good apology. But now?
I have two phones suspended because they are lost. Originally, I was told I could suspend them indefinitely. Then I was told that I could only suspend them month-by-month. Then I was was told I could suspend them three months at a time. Now, they're telling me that I can only suspend 6 months per year. None of which was mentioned when I asked up front, and none of which is ever consistently said after the fact.
So I decided to buy out the contract. Get this: Not only are they're charging me for two months' service for two phones I don't even have, they're charging me for an entire two months of service for both of those two phones AFTER the contract has been cancelled by being bought out!
If you are ever, EVER tempted to go Verizon, RUN LIKE HELL OUT OF THERE. They make a pack of lying vultures being eaten by a horde of hungry lawyers seem friendly!
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
This one is proportional... $10 per month IIRC... So if you canceled 23 months in, you'd only owe $105.
If carriers are going to make termination fees proportional, why not just itemize the subsidy as a "handset finance payment" on the bill?
The DROID with no contract is $560.
Is this really relevant to your ETF math, or are you just accepting their MSRP figure as a good starting point?
When I was a kid, we only had one Darth.
At least that's how it worked when we switched from T-Mobile to AT&T to get an iPhone. The customer service people royally screwed up our phone number transfers, misled us as to how long it would take to get an iPhone when they were out of stock, misfiled the phone in their shop (so they didn't notify us when it arrived - we had to bug them to search by order number), put the wrong names on phone numbers, gave phones in our family plan the wrong extra features, claimed things were unscrewed when they weren't, repeatedly, etc...
The one thing they got right was telling us up front that "your two year period starts over when you make ANY change to your plan" - increase of minutes, add another family member, whatever. AT&T phone customer service is actually good, though. We had to call several times, but every time we called customer service, things got fixed.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
I don't understand why companies do such obviously greedy things which do nothing but create annoyed customers. I reminds me of those stupid rewind fees Blockbuster would charge. I recall they used to get like 10% of there revenue from that crap. The article is correct it is annoyingly easy to inadvertently select that Get It Now choice. Cooking up a new money stream based on user error, or worse yet encouraging user error is just wrong in my book. You always hear companies whining "Gah you can prevent (regulate) us from doing this, it would stifle innovation". I'm getting so tired of shafting people being an excuse for funding innovation.
drug dealers are probably pretty high use...I would imagine they like the anonymous prepaid phone
Bottles.
Up here, the termination fee ranged from $650CAD to $900(Telus) CAD after they factor the "data termination fee".
Verizon has problems with their internet billing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCJ3Oz5JVKs/
Doctors do Massage in Longview WA now, who knew?
Actually I've found VZ customer service incredibly pleasant -- the hold times until you speak to a rep are rather long; but once you get a rep, it's clear they aren't measured by how fast they get you off the phone. The reps seam pleasant and remarkably well trained. (On the other hand, almost all of the VZ phones use the exact same interface so the training is easier.) I've found it relatively easy to make plan and service changes with verizon. I don't think I'd ever get a SBC (now called AT&T) phone.
Intellectual dishonesty, or merely stupidity?
Using the DROID as an example:
The DROID with no contract is $560.
Math with the current termination fee: $200 for the phone + $175 to immediately break your contract = $375 (You save $185 over the no-contract price)
Math with the new termination fee: $200 for the phone + $350 to immediately break your contract = $550 (You save $10 over the no-contract price)
Either way you save more than simply buying the phone without a contract. The new fee is high, but I can understand their reasoning.
Why do you blindly accept Verizon's word that the true cost of the DROID is $560? I don't know how much the DROID cost to manufacture, but the components of an iPhone 3GS cost $179. Assume the same for the DROID and toss in a generous amount for Motorola's assembly and R&D and I will guesstimate that Motorola can easily sell these things at $300 each and still make a reasonable profit.
Verizon wants to make it effectively impossible for people to leave so they slap on a ridiculous extra $260 to what they paid for each DROID and they announce that a no-contract phone costs $560. All of a sudden the price-gouging termination fees they charge for their plans are 'justified'.
Oh yeah, and if you pay the ridiculous termination fee you must trash your DROID as it is carrier locked. You don't even own the phone you paid for.
This is just another reminder of why we desperately need Net Neutrality to apply to wireless carriers -- Motorola would then be selling unlocked DROIDs directly to users regardless of cell phone provider. The retail price of the DROID would be determined by the open market in competition with every other model of cell phone.
...Are there any telecoms who AREN'T corporate bullies?
I live just (1 mile) above a county line, and spent most of my time below it, in town. Verizon does not service my address (above the line) and if I tried to get an account now, they would not give it to me (so free cancellation, apparently). The ONE provider to my area does not service below the county line, though.
No one will run cable out to my house. Period. I pick up Canadian towers once in a while, and Verizon "can't block them" (coughBULLSHITcough). And yes, .02KB of clicking NO, or downloading the Mobile IM that is free to use with my plan, costs me 1MB's worth of money.
And yet somehow it's all my fault, and they tell me to "just move". From my paid-for house? Fuck you! Nothing has pissed me off MORE since I moved than the telecom industry. Not even the fucking county government battles.
Don't have a cell phone.
Problem solved.
Here's an interesting pattern I've noted. . .
1. England has been in the Empire Game longer than America.
2. It's original primary communications system, the Royal Postal Service, kicked ass. It was brought to the height of its power and reach during the construction of the Proud British Empire. When building proud empires, proud people tend to build awesome systems which work well and which are affordable for most people. (It wouldn't be much of a proud empire if some of the people were miserable.)
3. When the British Empire began to rot and crumble and lose self-esteem, the new systems it built reflected this. The land line phone system in England SUCKS. --You pay by the minute. (Or is it, by the second?) I don't know if it's still that way, but it was for a long while.
4. Now on the other side of the ocean. . , when the American Empire was under construction, the Land Line Phone System was the pride of the empire! Awesome, reliable, and generally affordable.
5. But then, as always seems to happen, when the Empire began to rot and crumble and lose self-esteem and thus require fascist attitudes to keep the corrupt in their cushy positions, the new systems being built reflected this new attitude. And thus it is that the American Cell Phone system Completely Sucks. -It penalizes the user, robbing them by the second.
I don't know if this pattern means anything, but it stands out for me.
And my solution is. . .
Don't have a cell phone.
-FL
The only reason I do not own an iPhone is that AT&T pulled too much crap like overcharging customers and forcing them into restrictive agreements. It's unfortunate that Verizon is playing ball like this, I am unlikely now to actually buy a DROID unless they make their phones available on the Sprint network.
My $0.02.
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
By law anytime one of the carriers changes a policy that effects you in anyway, you have 30 days to contact them and refuse the new policy and cancel any contract you have with them at no charge. They are posted quite regularly at slickdeals.net and I assume other places. Just wait for something to come along (or do it now) and they are legally obligated to let you leave with no penalty.
This prepaid company is all the rage right now. If you're not afraid of fiddling with your phone's hidden menus, give PagePlus a try. (No affiliation, just loving the service.)
http://www.howardforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=364
Why do people keep signing up for them?
And why the hell hasn't AT&T made it its mission to match or beat Verizon for coverage in every state in the union? I am sure that if it could do that, it would get a LOT of business from people who hate Verizon. Or people who want phones AT&T has but Verizon wont have (iPhone for example).
Why, that's not much bigger than 20 bytes!
Next up, I'm going to measure my weight in tonnes and my belt size in kilometres.
Sweet. That way, I wont have to deal with three assholes at once - AT&T, Verizon or Apple, and will be treated like a human.
I bet Hitler liked pre-paid cell phones, too.
Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
The problem with this line of reasoning is that the phone shouldn't cost anywhere near $560. It probably costs Motorola less than $200 to produce the phone, and they probably sell it to VZW for less than $300. If anyone buys the phone for $560, VZW is making a killing on them.
I, too, have been using T-Mobile TOGO for many years. It's simple and cheap.
Another alternative is PagePlus which uses the Verizon network. Some of their recent plans are awesome - $40 for unlimited phone/text, $30 for 1200 mins + 1200 texts.
They even have the decency to bundle all the tax bullshit in the price. (Same goes for T-Mobile, 10c a minute, period.)
No, you're confusing Droid with Android. Droid is a specific Android-based phone made by Motorola and currently only available through Verizon. Droid is also, by most measures, significantly better than any other Android-based phone.
http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=15838&news=Motorola+Droid+Google+Android+OS+2.0+T-Mobile
That's what I found. It's important to note that the Verizon 3G and the T-Mobile 3G networks are incompatible, so you can't just get a Verizon Droid, unlock it, and use it with T-Mobile. (Even if you could, it would be expensive, and who knows how hard it will be to unlock the phone.)
If Verizon isn't paying for a significant exclusive contract on the phone, then this makes sense. Otherwise we might be seeing a year or two delay, in which time some other phone will come out with all the same features.
David Pogue commentary also discusses the $1.99 fee for hitting the incorrect button on the phone, where you accidentally request a web service, no matter how fast you cancel the request you get nicked $1.99.
This is where everyone calls customer service until it's cost prohibitive for them and they stop nickel and diming everyone.
Have Verizon disable all web access from your phone. I believe you can even do it yourself through the My Verizon website.
Also, if you do end up getting charged for having accidentally hit a button, call up their billing department and explain that you hit the wrong button, and did not actually use said service - they'll usually take the charge right off.
Certainly you have the right to be upset, but why would you give hundreds of dollars a year to a company you're upset with?
For example, I'm an AT&T customer despite the fact that AT&T bent over backwards for the NSA's illegal wiretapping program. I'd love to boycott them, but none of the other providers were reluctant to play along, and I need a cellphone plan with unlimited data transfers. Who am I going to change to if I want to boycott? Nobody. I'm stuck either (a) forgoing a useful service, (b) paying more than I can afford for data from one of the small prepaid carriers, or (c) bending over and taking it.
Guess which one I'm doing.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Coming from Russia, I just don't get it.
Slashdot and other sources from techie to mainstream are full of complaints on how carriers suck and blah blah blah. How did you end up with this stupid system in the first place? Why would a person in their right mind ever buy a locked phone?
At least when I was living in Russia 2 years ago (I am fairly confident that didn't change), phone lock-in was unheard of, and I have never known anyone who used phone locked to a carrier with termination fee. "Locked" in my mind was a characteristic of few phones delivered from abroad that needs to be removed.
Needless to say, the competition between carriers is good and prices very low; variety of phones is also great and they are mostly sold by companies separate from carriers. In Canada I only bought (and will continue to buy) phones from some Chinese guys on ebay, because every carrier outlets I visited have some 7 suboptimal phones, locked as a bonus...
Virgin Mobile here in Canada is (i'm guessing) the same idea; they use other carriers' towers, you buy the phone at Wal-Mart.
And seriously (not to be a shill) but their pre-paid service is vastly cheaper than any of the competition where I live (Saskatchewan). I thought the prices were pretty comparable, then I realized the other providers add service and 911 fees on top of the prices they advertise, and charge that much again for call display or voicemail. I pay $20 a month plus $0.10 a minute with unlimited texting, call display and voicemail; it doesn't get much better considering how little I talk. Not sure about their data plans though. I just can't see why people get 3-year phone plans... crazy.
Is there such thing as an honest phone company in the US? If so, I'd gladly change carriers.
You can get the Nokia N900 from amazon or from Nokia's online shop. Unlike the Droid, or any other phone out there it comes with Linux and thus offers the most open system to twiddle around with. Imho such a push for FOSS in the cell phone market needs to be supported and encouraged. There is nobody else out there going this route. You can write apps in any language you want, Python, Perl, Java, C, - hell, you could even install Dosbox and write batch files!
Droid may be based on some open source code, but it doesn't even come close in terms of openness and freedom; most of the more useful apps are Google's own apps (Gmail, Gmaps, webkit based browser etc.), which, admittedly, are definitely high-quality apps, but they are NOT open source and together with Android 2.0 (which is also mostly not open source) would quite probably be used for data-mining, whether anonymously or not, we have no way to know, but rest assured that any Android phone will be uniquely and easily identifiable on demand (especially when locked in to using a specific SIM card from a specific provider).
Ok, I give - I was trying to see the better side of things and give Verizon the benefit of the doubt, but after RTFA (which I did not do in this case beforehand) I have to agree with you that it's really Verizon at fault here, and furthermore with steps they noted at the end of the article to start trying to actively prevent data blocking - well that's just wrong.
So, I submit I was fully wrong in this regard and should not have tried to defend Verizon on this...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Not to mention the whole double minutes thing, once you get that, the most expensive minute you can get is only 16 cents.
It's these sort of buiness practices that demonstrate best why we need net neutrality. The cell phone model is just what some ISP's would like to apply to your home internet connection.
-Eric
“Texting is the closest thing to pure profit ever invented” – Sir Chris Gent, founder of Vodafone.
Bette than Tracfone's 2 or 3 months per minute card, better data transfer over network, and you only need to buy 1 card for every 4 months of service with free voicemail. $0.0012/KB or $1.20 every MegaByte (I think). http://www.pagepluscellular.com/Plans/Standard%20Plan.aspx
And not to mention, it's on *cough* Verizon network from Page Plus Cellular.
Tracfone is American Movil, moved from Floriduh to Mexico. I have 2 of these phones, 1 for Craigslist and Law Enforcement to think I live in another city, and the other is for messing with hookers from Romania. Works good for me, but I think I want to switch to Page Plus just to have redundancy of a GPRS/GSM Tracfone and then a CDMA Verizon.
I had an unlimited tethering plan when I was an Alltel customer. When Verizon took over they set me up on a plan with an 8MB limit. My first bill from Verizon was $9905. We are negotiating just exactly where they are going to stick these charges. My lawyer is standing by.
Wow, this is pretty bad.
I do like the slowly lowering of the termination fee month over month, not sure if that warrants doubling the initial amount though.
The charging for "even one kilobyte--is billed as 1MB" sounds really shady to me and would make me question my carrier, no matter who it was at the time.
I do feel that the article is somewhat disjointed though, as it goes from discussing termination fees for smart phones (which often have data plans) to data charges on all the other phones to the point of mentioning how most of the non-smart phones have dedicated keys for some form of web access.
Two interesting points, poorly constructed transition from one to the next..
This is the most ridiculous article I have ever read, aside from the previous one talking about how the Droid forces you to have the data plan but limit you in data. (You get unlimited data with the phone, TETHERING is limited to 5gb)
I've had Verizon for years, and I spend alot of money with them every month. Why? They're better than any other cel company I have ever been with (Sprint, T-Mobile, AT&T).
Whoever is spreading this info is getting their info from someone other than VZW Corporate, and this is getting ridiculous. I thought Slashdot prided themselves on the accuracy of their stories. WTF?
I'm not saying whether $560 is fair or not, but that's the price, so the new ETF still enables you to give yourself an instant $10 discount.
I have no idea how much the phone costs VZW, but I'm with you... I would never pay that much.
I have a woman and money. Life is good.
They won't do it, because too many deadbeats will take advantage of it, but the first carrier that sells the phone, unlocked, without a long term contract is where I'm going. Wireless providers should use the old "landline" model. We (consumers) provide the phone, the carrier provides the connection.
THIS is why Apple had to go with AT&T and not Verizon. Verizon may have the better network on paper, but I'm sure they would have buckled under the bandwidth issues presented by the iPhone explosion, just like AT&T. At least AT&T had the sense to listen to Apple about how the phone should be bundled, and now they are reaping the rewards.
They all suck, but I have a special dark place in my heart for Verizon's shitty behavior.
For that particular phone it is completely relevant. If you go into a store and ask them for a DROID with no contract that is the price.
They do have cheaper phones where the math would be more in their favor and they also have more expensive phones where the math would swing more to your favor.
I have a woman and money. Life is good.
Exactly. Companies are in business to make money.
Thank you for understanding that when I said you save X amount that I wasn't claiming Verizon was losing X amount. It just comes out of their markup.
Nobody that I know of has been forced into a cell phone contract. Rather, those of us that have contracts have been persuaded into it which works because, as you point out, there is such strong demand for the latest and greatest.
I have a woman and money. Life is good.
I think you're allowed out of your contract if you move out of the service area, but I'm not sure of that.
They aren't relating the ETF directly to the phone you buy, but they are relating it to the class of phone you buy; the $350 fee only applies to "advanced devices."
I have a woman and money. Life is good.
We were on Verizon for the length of our contract plus 11 months. Then we switched to Sprint. Verizon wanted us to pay the early cancellation fee, despite there being nothing "early" about it. Their claim was that by continuing to use the phone we had renewed the contract. Yeah, right. It's only taken three years, but their collections people have finally stopped calling us.
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
I just looked at completed listings on ebay and I see plenty of DROIDs that have sold for anywhere from $400 to $620 (don't ask me why anyone would pay more than the retail price), so it's not as if you are stuck with the phone and its cost if you decide to bolt to another company.
If you don't like the vendor lock-in that comes with a CDMA phone then nobody is stopping you from using AT&T or T-Mobile. Verizon is not a monopoly.
I have a woman and money. Life is good.
Now that's a reasonable argument. Although they also have phones that cost more than $560, so it goes both ways.
I have a woman and money. Life is good.
While I don't have an 'internet based' phone like the aforementioned (I'll add the Pre & HTC to the list) - I do have a Palm Treo ... I can do whatever I want on the internet at no extra charge - including 'tethering'. Now - I can upgrade my $30/mo plan to $60/mo and use an 'internet based' phone as well.
My point here is that Verizon has extensive 3G coverage ONLY because it has a deal to USE Sprint's 3G network! I have "Verizon's Coverage" without Verizon's prices - on Sprint.
I think you're allowed out of your contract if you move out of the service area, but I'm not sure of that.
They aren't relating the ETF directly to the phone you buy, but they are relating it to the class of phone you buy; the $350 fee only applies to "advanced devices."
Ah, i missed that. Well that's not as bad.
I do with the ETF dropped more quickly though. If you've got a dataphone, you're likely spending $80+ a month at verizon, but they only chip $10 off your ETF each month. I feel like they're making more than $10 a month off of me, so as long as they're getting their subsidy back plus a little extra, i should be able to terminate in 1 year without still having to pay $230. But then, I guess they have 2 years contracts to try to keep you for 2 years, so I dunno.
-Taylor
Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
I sent the following fax to Verizon yesterday. A Verizon exec yesterday afternoon called me back who said that "it was a business decision to require a data plan for all smartphones."
They're willing to let this 10+ year customer go. When my wife and I change carriers to something with a less pricey plan, I will send them pictures of us ex-Verizon customers enjoying our new smartphones.
Please send faxes to Verizon explaining that requiring a data plan is wrong. Maybe they'll listen if more people complain.
Thank you for your assistance.
BEGIN FAX:
Lowell McAdam
President & CEO
Verizon Wireless, Inc.
VIA FAX: 1-949-286-7570
Subject: why can I not get a Windows Mobile, Android, or Blackberry phone without a data plan?
Dear President and CEO McAdam or To Whom It May Concern,
My name is [name redacted]. I have been a Verizon Wireless customer since Verizon bought AirTouch San Diego back in the late 1990's.
My wife and I both need cell phones for phone calls, SMS, and MMS. My enV and my wife's VX8300 handle these functions well.
In addition to carrying our phones, we've both been also carrying around Palm Pilots. Why? Because our BREW-based don't offer -- and there are apparently no apps that offer:
- calendar applications that can display daily and weekly information well on the screen, as well as make it easy to set up appointments (the ones listed don't seem to cut it)
- a task manager
- the ability to back up the calendar and task manager data
Now I'm a software developer; I have both a Bachelors of Science and a Masters of Science in Information and Computer Science from UC Irvine. So I don't think I'd have a problem writing BREW apps to handle those functions. But there's a $400 entry fee to get BREW apps approved even though I only want to write programs for our personal phones. I sent an email through your customer service page to you asking if there is some way to get around this ridiculous expense; so far, I have not heard back.
We recently went to our local store ([city redacted], CA). We looked at the BREW-based phones; none of them offer the improved calendar that I'm seeking, a task manager, or the ability to back up the calendar and task manager data.
We poked at the Windows Mobile, Android, and Blackberry phones. My wife likes the calendar on the Windows Mobile 6.1 phones and I'm going to try to find a Windows Mobile 6.5 phone for her to play with. But all three of these types of phones require a $30 monthly data plan -- which would be $60 a month total -- on top of the $70 a month for our current phone plan. We have cable Internet at home; both of us agree that we can do without Internet or email on our phones.
I emailed your customer service team (the reply came back with the code [code redacted]). Basically, they told me nothing I didn't know.
So I am now faxing you, appealing to you to figure out a way for us to not have to purchase a monthly data plan. We are truly considering moving to a different service as our 2 year contract is up at the end of this month.
Please let me know if there is anything you can do to help. You can reach me on my Verizon Wireless cell phone at [number redacted].
Thank you,
[name redacted]
I think it should prorate faster too. There's no sense in having to pay $120 to break your contract at the 23 month mark.
I have a woman and money. Life is good.
Not to pile onto the "Wal*Mart sucks" bandwagon, but read this and either you'll never shop at Wal*Mart again, or you already shop there and this article will only make you shop there more:
http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/07/16449
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
Has anyone read the "funny" comments? They are annoying and disruptive.