Slashdot Mirror
John Hodgman On the Coming Geek Culture
An anonymous reader writes "Famous writer and minor television personality John Hodgman posits the end of the culture of Jockdom in favor of a cultural reverence for engineers, scientists and Slashdot readers: 'Jockdom is very noble. It's not deliberative. It's certainly the best way to win wars. It's the best way to motivate teams of people to fulfill a goal — not just war, but getting things done. The most important way to motivate a factory floor. But as you know, we're not as much of a manufacturing society as we were before. China and other big industrial nations are rewarding their nerds and technicians rather than creating a culture that makes fun of them — it would be wise for us to embrace the book-smart as much as our culture has traditionally embraced the street-smart, the jock-smart. I'm not saying nerds must have their revenge; I'm just saying the time for wedgies is at an end.'"
I, for one, welcome myself as one of our new overlords.
Isn't that the guy who played spider-man in those movies???
Then you wouldn't be pegged with (and the associated stigmas) of a certain stereotype.
I was heavy into science in high school, as well as sports and other extra-curricular activities. I never had a problem with any group of people.
Gone!
but I would take everything John Hodgman says with a grain of salt.
So if this is the future...where's my jet pack?
I don't necessarily think "jockdom" is the best way to win wars. Military history is full of examples of headstrong, impulsive leaders losing while the soft spoken, thoughtful (as in deliberative), strategic leader winning. Sun Tzu, Machiavelli, Marcus Aurelius, don't seem to me as typical 'jocks'.
If the previous president is any indication, jocks are more likely to start wars, for inane reasons, and either lose or not finish the job. Not that I think of Bush as a jock, but he certainly wasn't a nerd/geek. There should probably be three categories, 'jock','nerd','loser/lamer'
Pffft, who's gonna listen to this pathetic, whinging, scrawny little dweeb?
And since we live in the real world, people that combine intelligence with street smarts will always be the most valuable. Not just in war, but in any endeavor that requires getting a group of mad apes to come together.
That being said, I think the jock thing is a little overblown. Plenty of near-autistic nerds with no social skills are getting paid just fine, despite our supposed jockocracy and out societies baffling refusal to put us at the center of the universe.
Jockdom? Wedgies?
How many stereotypes can you cram into an article. Besides, my experience of school and beyond, was more about
a very small group of borderline retards, disrupting everyone else.
But not anymore.
And you can look at the younger generation and even as I do want to send them back to school until they learn to properly write in their mother tongue (not their mother's tongue, which would be desirable, but trumps on some human rights) or tell them to just die already instead of making "statements" by using the exact same haircut than their peers, they are MUCH more tolerant.
Really.
MTV giveth, id say. Even if MTV taketh otherth thtuff away too.
NO SIG
The dichotomy between nerds and jocks is a false one, and it has been for some time. The stereotypes assert that "jocks" who are socially active, athletic, and attractive must not have any interest in technology, be smart, or value intellectual pursuits. Likewise, "nerds" who are smart and dedicated to learning must be slobs, socially awkward, and unattractive. This hasn't been the case at any time in the last decade or so that I've been paying attention. Some of the smartest and most academically successful people at my high school, who went on to attend highly prestigious universities, some to study science and engineering, were also athletic, social, attractive people. Many of the socially awkward nerds were not smart and did not value learning. In college, a significant percentage of my incredibly smart engineering colleagues had been high school football stars, loved to party, and were quite successful in relationships.
Now that I'm in law school, it's clear that my fellow students value intelligence (including technical knowledge) right along with social prowess and appearance. The entire spectrum of personal attributes is not only respected, but expected in these circles. I believe this has been the norm among high-performing, successful people for quite some time now - it's not even clear that the jock-nerd dichotomy every really existed the way it is portrayed. As far as I can tell, the real divide has everything to do with social skills and nothing to do with intelligence.
I am a geek attorney, but not your geek attorney unless you've already retained me. This is not legal advice.
http://odeo.com/episodes/22014686-John-Hodgman-on-Dungeons-and-Dragons
This man's use of language reminds me of Terry Pratchett somehow. The American version.
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
That explains why he does Apple commercials.
Women, despite outnumbering men, have been unable to achieve equality in macho culture despite at least 100 years of effort. No big reason to think that nerds will do any better.
I think Hodgman has a point. We're steadily embracing geek culture. Interoperable (in an earlier post) also makes a point that we should only take his word so far. Unless we somehow figure out a way to turn geekdom into an ecclesiastical theocracy and imprint our memes upon all of society to forever quash jocks and preppies, there will always be jocks, and there will always be preppies, and there will always be idiots, which is why I'm bringing up Hanlon's Razor here, and General Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord's addendum to Hanlon's Razor.
Currently "jocks" are in charge (aka the smart and industrious). Let's face it, jocks are smart in their chosen fields. However, geeks are the smart and lazy segment, and we are running the world now. Jocks will always be smart and they will always do things the hard way and expend the most effort. Geeks on the other hand, will always be smart, but we're always looking for the most efficient way to do things. That's why we're currently becoming dominant IMHO in the American social structure, and probably why we will continue to be dominant for a while to come
Now, does anyone have a better view or a better argument? I need to learn something today and (sadly) lately the only place where I've been able to learn new things or realize that my assumptions are wrong is /.
Here's to hot beer, cold women, and Glaswegian kisses for all.
From the article:
'My town is the best because the incredibly wealthy owners decided to keep the team for now.' Or, 'My political team is the best because it was my dad's and they best stoke my primitive fears,' as opposed to 'They have the best policies for me and my family.'
Required reading. In a couple of short sentences, he exposes and decodes the core cultural aberration of the false spectacle - the pseudo-life - in which people imagine themselves.
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
While Hodgeman may be a comedian by trade, he has a great point. Though, where I live (Portland Oregon) the numbers of Geeks-to-non-Geeks is shoring up over time. In fact, I think Portland was recently declared the 3rd most geek-friendly place in the world.
Truth is, the geek inherited the earth long ago. They just need to rise up and grow a backbone. It can be done. Right? Anyone? Bueler?
Parmasean Cheese. It's what's for dinner.
The fact that someone can be both a jock and a nerd proves that this whole dichotomy of jock vs nerd is wrong. In my opinion, Nerds and Jocks are more like the opposite ends of a spectrum. I am definitely more on the nerd end, but I've seen people at all points on that spectrum.
I just don't find this guy funny or even all that intelligent. what is he even saying here? yes the US has been trailing in science and math education for a while and yes we know that trend must stop - stating the obvious doesn't make it so, it's not funny (obligatory nerd/wedgie comment not withstanding) and it's not smart or original. if he did 'I'm a Linux' commercials he might not come across as such a d-bag.
certified elipsis abuser
Now?
-Jack O'Neill
It's true that people don't appreciate what the geeks do for them.
I was reading a programming book while waiting for the train once, and this kid and his friend start laughing at the "brainiac" who's weird enough to read books when he doesn't have to.
Then the kid whips out his cell phone and starts poking at it. I said, "sure, you love using technology, but you don't think anyone should know how to make it?" Dumbass.
I thought the geek culture ALREADY won? Once upon a time, getting the latest tech gadget would have been nerdy, yeah, but today everyone has mp3 players, iPods/iPhones are as much about brand, fashion, being hip, etc as anything else. Everyone has a computer and uses the internet. Back in the day, calling up a BBS and leaving messages to your friends was nerdy. Today, posting on your friend's facebook wall or sending out tweeks is normal. Even gaming has come to the masses more and more with things like the Wii/DS and smartphone gaming (not to mention all the casual online games and whatnot that get passed around... often on the aforementioned social networking sites and sometimes with the also aforementioned smartphone devices).
Okay, there are still plenty of areas that fall only within the realm of geekdom such as tabletop RPG gaming and a love of mathematics for the sake of mathematics. But as far as technology goes, geek culture has already taken over.
Our culture does not respect those whose labor directly produces wealth. In fact, it doesn't even have a clue about how to become wealthy and stay wealthy now. The very fact that companies look at their domestic wealth-producing workers and think "these guys are optional" rather than going to H.R., middle management, etc. for budget cuts is proof of that.
You're gimmick about geek culture is very late. I suggest you research the term technocracy.
Despite your tardiness, you still deserve a C for trying.
Yours In Novorossisyk,
Kilgore Trout
In the rest of the world we have never been dominated by the whole "jock, nerd, cheerleader" culture that people seem to almost enjoy in the US. For example you ever talk to anyone from Asia and they're already a "nerd culture" with the alpha nerds being the head of the school (*although I'm not sure they get the women).
I never understood why teachers encourage this in US schools by allowing sporting teams to get more money than science clubs and ignoring bullying so it almost has an international rep'. You guys don't even find it odd that kids can go around assaulting each other or stealing each other's money, it is just very blah.
In the schools here, if you hit someone else you would likely be removed. If you stole from them they would literally call in the police.
Since when does street-smart have anything to do with jocks? For that matter, *-smart. Jock-smart is any oxymoron
Hodgman ... played minor parts in Tina Fey's Baby Mama, Ricky Gervais' The Invention of Lying and Francis Ford Coppola's Bram Stoker's Battlestar Galactica.
No wonder the ending of BSG was so out there. Too many chefs spoil the stew.
Putting moderation advice in your
The jocks [or anyone who chases dominance] are deeply insecure, and need external support for their fragile egos. Why else be so sensitive to perceived slights? The truly strong merely shrug them off. Strength means confidence, and confidence does not require continual demonstration.
Here I am talking only about constructive society. There are also predatory societies where it is necessary to grab eveything you can. Doomed to implosion. Or in dealing with the stupid, who sometimes need to see teeth.
Since these guys should know themselves best, I take them at their word.
A cultural shift to mostly geek virgins should dramatically reduce over population and save resources. The one risk is eventual extinction so there would have to be strict limits placed on the number of World of Warcraft players.
It's certainly the best way to win wars.
Jockdom is no longer the best way to win wars... Look at Iraq and Afganistan- we're slowly moving away from big ass bombs to smarter, more humanitarian ways of winning a series of wars that have more to do with culture and education than with fighting. Jocks-schmocks!
I'm a nerd, enjoy math and computer science and worked hard at it. I have a job that pays really well compared to most people. I come in and go when I want and am responsible for myself. Most people I know in this field have similar lifestyles. I don't see how I'm being cheated or not rewarded.
"If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer
or so the expression goes. And it is absolutely 100% true. It basically comes down to this: those with excellent social skills will have far more opportunities in life than those with weak social skills. Jockdom tends to develop the social skills, Geekdom, not so much. This is why jocks seem to always be doing well for themselves, even when they're not the smartest, or even not smart at all.
I'd love to be wrong. But I don't think I am.
Am I the only one that know "jocks" that exceled in science, math or eny other geek domain as well? I love sports; as a brazilian, soccer mostly. But I played rugby when I lived in australia, and I surf every other weekend. I was never a bully, by the way. I guess in america all jocks are dumb and bullies. Geek, jock, we are all just plain old "people" in Brazil. My closest friends are all sports-lovers and/or geeks. No segregation.
Yes but if you're truly smart then you'll realize that being athletic isn't something to be avoided. It's something you strive for. A healthy body == a healthy mind. Discard those stereotypes and do yourself a favor. Put down the bag of chips and go for a walk. It will pay better dividends than anything you can ever learn.
What does he know, he's a PC...I want Mac's opinion.
Being a geek implies a sense of style. I prefer being a nerd.
Asia has traditionally rewarded intelligence and hard work (versus jockdom). The smart ones (who score really high on standardized tests) get that way from hours (had been 12+ hour days of before school, school, and after school including weekends) of studying. Less so now, but in the past if you scored well you got into the best schools, best universities, then automatically into the best jobs in the country. Take baseball in Japan as an example of their 'jockdom.' They're paid well, but no where near UH levels. They play hard (practices are grueling) and people expect them to essentially 'use themselves up' during the course of their careers. US ballplayers (in the 80s) who went over had 'special treatment' as they were excused from the more rigorous work by the Japan players. Other cultures and nations simply do not put athletes on pedestals like we do in the US. They admire their skill but don't treat them like they're the most important people in the country. People who work hard, are skilled (craftsmen, artisans), or smart (scientists, engineers) are appropriately valued.
mu
Surely getting a geek to build you an atom bomb, or whatever, is more effective then sending a jock off to wrestle with the enemy.
I've also got to wonder what the survival rate at war is for geeks vs jocks? I'd have to guess the geeks do better, and it's hard to win a war (not to mention somewhat meaningless) if you're dead.
You spelled "Jock-dumb" wrong. Hand in your geek card.
I do look forward to the XKCD motivational posters.
Geek culture has been around for a long while now. A large number of movies have been based on comic books lately and have been successful. The SyFy channel is enjoying some of the highest viewership it has ever had and, in part, due to remakes of some Science Fiction classics like Battlestar Galactica (even MST3K pokes fun at Battlestar, for crying out loud!). Video games are considered a daily activity by many. Don't even get me started at how huge Magic: The Gathering got ... The fact of the matter is, Geek Culture is now a staple of American culture. The resident computer geek is someone that gets thanked, paid and taken out to dinner for stripping all the crap off of your friend's computer. I'd have to say John hasn't been paying very close attention.
He wanted to be a jock-- wannabe types are often worse than the real thing.
Bush wasn't good enough to be in sports and probably was a wimp like his father. He was a cheerleader because that is the best he could do (and they weren't like the ones of today.)
A wimp acting like a strong leader is also worse than the real thing; I don't know why so many people thought he had leadership skills because it was fairly clear he was a wannabe on that as well-- if not also overcompensating for the wimp label of his father; nobody calls Bush Jr a wimp, if they fell for his act.
Try being around lots of kids - doing similar things - it makes it easier to spot when adults do the same thing! Adults are often just more sophisticated more socialized children; similar behaviors and motives but with a better disguise.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
OK, maybe overstated. But I think it was 2 years ago or so that I saw Conan O'Brien interviewing Quentin Tarantino, and WOW, those are two enormous nerds. From what I've seen of Tarantino, he can't help himself, and maybe O'Brien can but instead makes fun of himself for it. These are the people defining pop culture, and they're us (well, except they're a lot better at it than me, but...)
It's sad to see middle-aged men still talking about stuff that happened to them in high school. I know John Hodgman is hardly serious, but the more I know about the USA the more it sounds like a country of 17-year old self-claimed losers who get publicly humiliated on a daily basis by having their underpants pulled up.
Seriously, it's sad to see grown men still dragging along their high school complexes. Jocks and nerds? Grow the fuck out of it. Not only must every single god damn American TV show plot that's centred around males at school must be about so-called losers who get humiliated by big mean guys and mean "popular girls", on top of that you have a very significant portion of the American adult population who must completely identify and go out of their way to fit the stereotypes, from reading children's comic books about superior men in tight pants who avenge anyone by kicking the arse of the big mean guys (yes, so-called losers enjoy escapism by means of reading about a superior man who kicks all the arse they never had the balls to kick themselves) to being pansies who'll get pushed around by their wife as if they were still 12 and that the chick was their mom, probably because they feel that so-called losers don't need to grow some balls and become a man, so they forever remain whiny overgrown teenagers who play with Star Wars figurines and get flashbacks of having their underpants pulled up. If you're gonna play something that involves dungeons and you're over 20, it'd better involve gags and leather restraints.
As an outsider, watching that shit is getting increasingly painful. We don't even have a word for wedgie cause no one gets their underpants pulled up in France, except maybe girls with G-strings that stick out of their pants, so that's hard to relate to your neurosis. It's like your entire culture and civilisation revolves around men with complexes who can't grow out of their teenager bullshit. Look at movies. How many of them are about a loser hero any other loser can relate to and who becomes a loser+ by staying a loser so you can still relate but in the process accomplishing something great? As in "big jewy loser who never kissed a girl and plays WoW goes through a bunch of adventures and in the end he kisses a hot chick whom he thought was "out of his league", whatever the fuck that means". Or "divorced middle-aged loser with a crappy job saves the world and gets with a hot woman". Sometimes it seems like you ALL must think of yourselves as loser, one way or another. That's pathetic.
You just got troll'd!
News at 11...
Need Geek Rock? Try The Franchise!
Did you post that in the comments on TFA and then come here to post it again?
Or did you lift it from there and you're trying to pass it off as your own?
you could preserve american labor, and someone else would use cheaper overseas labor. then american consumers would buy that cheaper product of which nothing, not even company headquarters, gets a cut of that profit. then the next step is protectionism, where you insist everyone buy more expensive american made goods. then people buy far less, or they buy black market goods, because patriotism does not magically put money into your bank account, and you still need to buy a refrigerator. meanwhile, the rest of the world enjoys better products at cheaper prices while the american economy stagnates and shrinks, cut off from the rest of the world because of protectionism
i'm sorry, but in the interest of what is best for the united states, fuck american labor. the industrial age is over, let china pollute itself rather than the usa. and unions seem less like their ancestors, out to protect american labor from predatory management, and more like the new predator: upper middle class incomes at the expense of everyone else, including the health of the company, and the country
goodbye GM, goodbye industrial dinosaurs, good fucking riddance. if that means we are a poorer country for it, fine, no problem. as if the industrial age defines what is best for us, or even the only model for wealth creation possible. no, your lament at the decline of american labor only means that you don't know any better, not that there isn't anything better than what you have unilaterally decided is the come-all be-all of existence. you think the industrial model is only thing that defines wealth creation, and for some reason is fixed in your mind as a golden age, and all that comes after is somehow magically inferior. maybe its superior, and you simply don't see that. superior not in terms of the economic imperialism of past ages, but superior in simple quality of life
japan is coping with ecnomic decline to a far greater extent than the usa, and for a lot longer (since their economy stagnated in 1990). and maybe it means the japanese aren't seen as ubereconomic imperial masters any more, but maybe it also means less salarymen are having heart attacks and that the japanese have a more mellow, easier and happier life. the europeans have months of vacation time and generous social safety nets. so what exactly should we be fighting to retain in your mind? are we at economic war with the world?
fuck your fetishization of the industrial age as all we should aspire to. welcome the poorer, more mellower american age. time to step off the world stage as its master, and fuck you to those of you who think we need to stay in that role for some reason
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Hey guys! You nerds are so cool and the people who used to make fun of you are now uncool. If you want to learn more about the ways in which you are totally more awesomer than people those stupid people you don't like; then just buy my book! Only $19.99 at amazon, barnes and noble a other finer book stores.
and I regularly banged chicks and beat up nerds.
Now I've got a beautiful wife (ex-model), 3 kids that love me, and a huge house. I drive a 67 Corvette Stingray (a beaut)
anyhow, I also manage a couple dozen programmer nerds, many my age, and they're all angry. And make less than I do.
What I'm saying is, you might want to rethink the nerd path you're on.
Read "VALIS" - then figger it out.
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
This is probably the most insightful post on American culture I have ever read.
May the Maths Be with you!
Yet another article about the revenge of the nerds. Seriously folks, if you don't like the way you're treated you have to do something about it. Life is not fair and adaptation is the key to success regardless where you stand on a socioeconomic ladder. Also, it is a pity that Hodgeman misses one critical point: Geeks or whatever you call people who use brains for living are already paid well enough.
I've met really smart people in my life. Some of them were way to close to either of the ends of autism spectrum. Those folks were different by nature and to pick on them would be wrong from a purely moral standpoint. Also I have met plenty of geeks who -- for the lack of better expression -- called for a wrong kind of attention. Showing up to work wearing the same t-shirt they wore when painting the house a week ago, having no hygiene habits, screaming "Linux!" every time somebody asks for a solution (even if the question is not IT related). Add a superiority complex on that and you get an individual that is not very nice to deal with. I tend to avoid those people simply because I know that shit won't stink if you do not touch it. However, there may be people who intentionally would go out of their way to annoy these outliers...
And finally of salaries... If you take a look at the degrees which lead to best paid entry level positions you will see that those degrees are in tech and sciences. Thus a person who gets a good start in the field of science can further move up and earn more money if they combine science with business down the road. No, you won't earn millions of dollars for throwing a ball but being a lead scientist or a guy who writes top notch trading software is a pretty good thing to have on your resume. Those positions will be bullet proof careers in the next century. Too bad football and baseball players can't say the same thing :)
aka, the modern gladiator...
comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
Link here. Very funny.
http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Nerd_project thank you very much.
contribute at wikademia
In the business world, street-smarts still reigns and probably always will because those are the ones who usually succeed in the US biz environment: the crafty and manipulative wheeler-dealer. After all, Bill Gates' poker skills are perhaps more important to his success than his tech skills, which don't stand out by geek standards.
That being said, talking to my teen daughter has given me incite into the newer generation, and they seem more diverse than my school days. There's less "rank" among cliques, and each clique is pretty much allowed to be itself. Thus, band geeks are allowed to be band geeks, etc. Star athletes will always be more popular than star geeks, but outside of that, the hierarchies of popularity seems to be flattening among groups. In short, there's more embracing of diversity, and being a bit "odd" is socially safer.
Table-ized A.I.
What I think is more interesting is that this is social human nature. Its something you can't fight, but its something you have to recognize to understand yourself and keep yourself from doing incredibly stupid things. If anything, denying it is a part of you is just as delusional as living it without realizing it.
-The world would be a better place if everyone had a hoverboard
If you're a geek and not getting laid, then listen closely because you should be.
1. Popular culture lies. Dumb, muscle bound meat heads and frat-boys don't get the girl.
2. The feature in men that women are most attracted to: intelligence.
3. Studies show that intelligent men, over the course of their life, get to have more sex, more regularly than those who are less intelligent.
If your a geek and don't think you can get a girl, you're wrong. All those popped-collared frat boys want you to think you aren't going to be successful because, if the truth got out, THEY would never get laid. So instead of trying, you sit home and play WoW.
If you don't believe me consider this (proposed by a evolutionary biologist): women are beautiful, men are ugly. Agreed? OK. Therefore, men must be choosing mates based on looks (that's why women get more beautiful every generation) and women must be choosing mates based on other features (intelligence).
Because main distinction (and a requirement) of a jock is his physical shape and build, while the main distinction of a nerd is always intellectual.
There is no natural law that prohibits physically endowed humans to also have intellectual tendencies - just look at Dolph Lundgren.
But, as the requirement to be a jock is physical, someone born with a nerd body can't just say "Hell... I'll start doing sports too."
That is why Biff Tannen and his progeny (and ancestors) remain jocks (and bullies) in all incarnations and time-lines - while George McFly and his remain nerds.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
The new model of human personality http://bit.ly/L1iM5 suggests that jocks would tend to be high in extraversion and low in agreeableness; whereas nerds would be low in extraversion and high in agreeableness. CEO's, political leaders and pro athletes tend toward the jock version. So if the geeks want to rule, they (ahem, I ) have to create a system that pushes power toward modes of action and decision-making that favor intelligence and agreeableness over bluster and force. Open source government, anyone?
From the article: 'My town is the best because the incredibly wealthy owners decided to keep the team for now.' Or, 'My political team is the best because it was my dad's and they best stoke my primitive fears,' as opposed to 'They have the best policies for me and my family.'
Required reading. In a couple of short sentences, he exposes and decodes the core cultural aberration of the false spectacle - the pseudo-life - in which people imagine themselves.
*Laugh* - Life is pseudo-life. About 99% of what I do is an escape from reality really. But what is reality, sit there and do nothing but stare at a wall and you're in reality?
:).
Presumably being a geek, you play video games right? Or have played D&D? Or like movies? Or dream?
The first 2 examples you gave have nothing to do with "pseudo-life", they just have to do with someone making presumably poor decisions based on emotion rather than logic. But if their decision brings them a sense of happiness (which is all success or happiness really is, whatever it's defined as for you, maybe it's more important to them that their local team wins than them having good school systems), was it really the illogical decision? In your set of logic, yes, in their scope maybe not?
Ahh, we could spin on this for hours. There's no right or wrong answer in politics and societal norms, which is what this is really about.
That said, being a geek, I hope we get more respect, paid more and are considered more attractive (although I seem to get a lot of respect from people now, that has never been a huge issue really?) and I think the author has some good points.
I just disagree with your sentiment about "pseudo-life"
Nah.
I'm a lone wolf, or a black sheep. However you look at it.
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
Funny, our football captain was also our valedictorian, he (and I) took AP classes at a neighboring school because they weren't offered at ours and also took math classes through a university program. I am pretty sure the coach was just fine with this, as he was the teacher that introduced both of us to the program in the first place.
Btw, we went 7-1 and just missed entering the state tourney, also we won the state award for best average GPA on the team. (I believe that our regular season loss was to the team that took state in the class above our own)
In a couple of short sentences, I've decoded your political biases too. You do understand that the whole political liberalism vs conservatism argument actually has merit and is worth debate, once you throw out the extreme religious and communist (and other) wingnuts, right? To characterize that most people's political beliefs (at least, those that oppose you) are based on something false because you fail to see the merit of their ideas is silly. Liberal views have merit: there are obvious benefits to both society and the individual if we take care of each other through a public system. Conservative views also have merit: there are obvious benefits to both society and the individual by rewarding those who are the most productive to our economy, and not allowing large percentages of the population to sleepwalk through life on welfare sucking the life out of the country. Finding the right balance is what the political process is all about. Claiming your political "foes" only hold their beliefs due to primitive fears is counter-productive.
11*43+456^2
let them be economic masters. what the hell is really lost? why doesn't the usa worry more about taking care of their own and worry less about taking care of people far outside our borders who don't even like us. seems like a big cash savings there, no?
economic dominance does not equate to quality of life for americans. let some other country take up that mantle
meanwhile, i'd like to see more european style 5 weeks of vacation and more robust safety social nets
the age of market fundamentalists turning our economy into a bubbling overheated mess and economic imperialists driving us to ridiculous workweeks and hours is over. fuck them all and the supposed "fruits" of that thinking. there's nothing in that except misery and a few rich assholes living off our stress
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I'm talking from a sociology perspective, not from a social psychology perspective. So its whatever.
-The world would be a better place if everyone had a hoverboard
Eat your vegetables, Timmy. There are people starving in India.
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
Isn't this the same guy I see every 15 minutes on TV parodying nerds and espousing the cool, hip Mac culture? Yeah, totally embracing our inner geek.
At no point did I defend unions. Your entire rant about them is absolutely irrelevant because it does nothing to address what I said about the very concept of working in a factory being considered a trashy, peon, loser job. To a lesser extent, but still meaningfully felt, tradesmen experience the same thing. The only thing, and I emphasize the only thing, that keeps engineers out of this is the college degree!
People like you don't even grasp what the hell you are saying. Fuck the industrial age? Well fuck the very computer you are using! Fuck the car you drive, fuck half of the materials in your house! Fuck the drugs the keep you alive. Fuck the cheap clothes you wear, and fuck the cheap food you eat. Fuck 90% of the material possession you have had, have and every will have, then.
Guess what? Someone had to make them. The majority of them are made industrially. The majority of what the US makes today is intellectual property and new financial instruments like the ones that Goldman Sachs and company used to plunder the economy and mortgage market. That's it. We don't really produce much more domestically than Latin America does. Probably less, actually, for our size and position than Brazil.
At some point, the rest of the world is going to stop investing in us, and all of those government employees, non-profits, educational institutions, etc. are going to have to wake up to the fact that they aren't producing any wealth worth mentioning. They aren't making anything. They aren't adding value right into the economy. The schools will survive; they'll privatize and compete like businesses like they should be already. The rest, well, not so bright of a future for a workplace fill with all manner of college debt and cliff notes-level knowledge of liberal arts rubbish, but little direct skill in making something....
The "geeks" and "nerds" have been prevailing over the jocks in high school ever since the terms have been institutionalized. Sure, there are some kids that were born and raised to be alpha, so they get alpha roles in life (executive, CEO, etc.), but in most cases, it's been that the nerds get the money and respect, while the jocks are in perpetual catch-up mode.
Wait, so he's saying jockdom is obsolete because it's the best way to motivate factory workers, but China is overtaking our factories, but the Chinese place their nerds above jocks? Is this a contradiction? If China is still industrial shouldn't they have jocks on pedestals? Or I guess maybe not, because Chinese are automatically nerds?
is still practiced by the usa. protectionism is practiced by every single country. protectionism will always be practiced, and used as a threat, regardless of any trade treaty signed by anyone
but SIGNIFICANT protectionism, which most people mean when they talk about the issue, of the kind that would actually make a dent in the flow of jobs overseas, would cripple the american economy, in all sorts of ways, not all of which having to do with job protectionism or consumer behavior. ti woudl cripple the american economy to a greater degree than anything you could possibly gain by retaining american jobs in the industrial sector
you do understand that right?
and please enough with the slave labor propaganda. no american company is selling products made with slave labor. and if they are, they are exposed, shamed, and switch manufacturers. there are watchgroups where all they do is look for these kinds of abuses. the indonesian sweat shops making nike sneakers made for good antiglobalism propaganda in 1998. but its 2009, and nike and anyone else in business is making damn sure they don't run into that kind of business-killing bad PR ever again
now if you want to talk about a genuine issue, talk about environmental degradation. thats real. basically, cheap chinese made products are giving chinese people cancer due to china's complete lack of giving a shit about their abuse of their own environment
but do you really think protectionism is the way to address that?
"So what is more important? That we have consumer goods as cheaply as possible, or that we live our values as a nation?"
that we have consumers goods as cheaply as possible. duh
you yourself probably went to buy something at walmart after writing that highminded but empty appeal. plenty of people will agree with you, pay you lip service, it sounds grand: principles over cheap plastic crap. but absolutely no one will put that into practice. when you are standing in the store, and you have to buy that microwave, the $150 dollar one is not going to be bought. the $50 dollar one is. that $100 is worth a hell of a lot more to you than empty highmindedness
unless you are upper middle class or rich and actually have the disposable income to put your words into action. for everyone else scraping by, the vast majority of us: get real
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
'My political team is the best because it was my dad's and they best stoke my primitive fears,' as opposed to 'They have the best policies for me and my family.'
That reminds me of an old joke:
Q: "Why are you a republican?"
A: "Well, because my father was a republican, and my father's father was a republican."
Q: "What if your father was a horse thief, and your father's father was a horse thief?"
A: "Well, then I'd probably be a democrat."
haw haw /registered independent
the industrial age is not the end-all be-all economic model for defining wealth. over time, the time and energy of making manufactured goods becomes a marginally value-added effort, not the end-all be-all definition of what it means to be a functioning economy, nevermind rich. hell, the very fact we transport everything from CHINA, as in, half-way around the world, should tell you something about how little is added in manufacturing in terms of making a difference economically
if you really want to preserve american manufacturing, go help al qaeda blow up oil refineries: expensive transport will render chinese goods too pricey
but no, the whole issue of the few percentage points of the economy which is manufacturing is a red herring. the true richness of a society is defined by the robustness and fairness of its institutions. you can have a country like china where everything is made, and still you can have most being desperately poor lorded over by a few megarich technocrats. because how wealth is DISTRIBUTED, how society values simple fairness and is transparent and not corrupt, matters a hell of a lot more than what a society actually does
as the economy evolves, american know-how will adapt and come out on top if it continues to be what it has always been: robust and fair and adaptable. meanwhile, those like you with their panties in a twist because they see in the decline of manufacturing the armageddeon of everything they hold dear simply don't fucking know anything else. your opinion of how desperate things are is a reflection of your mindset, not reality
we shall move beyond the industrial age, and we will only get richer. forget guns, forget butter. know how will make us rich and keep us powerful. your much fetishized manufacturing is but a slight value-added marginal effort
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
As far as I've heard and experienced, the whole "nerd" stigma is an entirely American concept. There aren't really any such thing as "nerds" in Russian or Asian schools; some kids get better grades than others, but they all play football ("soccer") together or climb mountains or whatever. Would anyone in the international community care to elaborate?
I spent about 4 years growing up in Thailand during my childhood and went to an international school. So my personal sampling is skewed. I suppose we did make fun of kids with "teh ghey", but that eventually wore off once we realized how popular they were with the girls.
On returning to the US in 8th grade, the thing that got me the most was that no one played... back East we'd chomp down our lunches in 5 minutes and run out to spend the rest of our break time playing "balloon" or "rabbit" or "tee" or some other form form of zombie / team tag. The only form of physical activity was excruciatingly over-organized team sports with lots of rules and very brief bursts of activity followed by protracted yelling and arguments... more of a game for the enjoyment of politicians and lawyers if you ask me.
Anyway, other countries do have a lot more respect for education and teachers as a profession. Here they're treated more like some form of social worker, maybe marginally higher than street sweepers or bus drivers. Although the same thing appears to be happening to medical doctors now (back when I was growing up in Asia, a doctor was about the best thing a kid could grow up to be... so I was actually kinda surprised to find a lot of my childhood friends growing up to be computer programmers :P ).
He's a PC...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
WWI: the tank broke the stalemate in the fields, although without it the allies would have eventually ground the Germans down (at a much higher cost though). Plus all the boring logistics stuff like convoys, canned food, etc.
WWII: the atomic bomb, the 4 engine bomber (delivery system of other weapons such as fire bombs used to level many of Germany and Japan's major cities), radar, radar jamming, navigation aids for bombing like Oboe, statistical analysis of what worked and what didn't work in the war of the Atlantic (aka the best way to kill U-boats) oh and a code breaking effort by the allies that broke Enigma (German rotor machine) and Purple (Japanese rotor machine) allowing the Allies to read enemy message traffic in near real time in some cases. The guys like Patton definitely get a lot of credit in the media/text books but it's geeks like Turing that really kicked ass.
Post WWII conflicts: many of the stalemated conflicts could be more properly termed police actions (especially in some cases as war was not declared) and in many cases you'll see a combination off stagnation/misunderstanding of the enemies real intentions/motivations has lead to serious messes.
I highly doubt any of this nonsense is even close to reality. Here in "Real Life" we have gone from Shakespeare, Plato, Bach, Dorvak, Doyle, Poe, Shelly, and other great literary and cultural wonders to Tila Tequila and reality TV.
Here in "Real Life" the rewarding of the lazy, unproductive, immoral, self destructive, and intolerant has only accelerated in the last 30 years.
Our 'assaletes' are substance abusing, spouse abusing, liars. Our politicians are corrupt. Our Scientists are too busy pandering and tailoring research to meet grant requirments and political agendas, and our businesses are too busy keeping the contemporary corporate ponzi scheme alfoat to generate any real wealth.
Between being moral bankrupt, greedy, dihonsest, and hypocritical this Geek veneration smells like more B as in B, S as in S.
-=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
I hate to say it, but there is no coming shift to geek culture. There simply are not enough geeks compared to "normal people." Geeks don't have the spending power or sheer numbers to really matter. While geeks might have been on the cutting edge at one point, things like the internet, instant messaging, e-mail, social media didn't really start to matter until they started to appeal to more people besides a small niche population.
While geeks may be some of the driving forces behind some of these advancements, only a few of them actually reap the rewards. Case in point, Twitter has gone mainstream. But who has the largest following? Ashton Kutcher.
I just spent some time trying to track a gift down for my wife. In the search results, I came across a forum for handbags/purses. I've seen all sorts of forums in the past: Computers, DVDs, Anime, Cars, Sports, etc, but this was the first time I came across a forum like that. The ladies on that forum are not shifting to geek culture, they're just using new tools to communicate with others of similar interests in new ways.
If all you have are silver bullets, everything looks like a werewolf.
I'd probably have more affection for Mr. Hodgman if he wasn't the vehicle of misinformation and straw-men arguments from Apple. Engaging in juvenile antics by equating nerds to Windows, and then decrying those very antics is a bit of the pot and kettle. Paid or not, he's essentially lending his credibility (or lack thereof) to Apple.
For those unfamiliar (anyone?), the Mac ad jokes are funny, but like the Australian toilet in the Simpsons, they're based in misconceptions. The difference is that Apple has a vested interest in furthering those misconceptions, aka deceptions. The Simpsons are not, to my knowledge, selling any high-end toilets that flush in a counter-clockwise direction.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
George Orwell wondered why it was that only English-speaking intellectuals hated, rather than loved and were proud of, their home civilization. If he had taken the time to look at other distinctive traits of English-speaking cultures, he would have figured out why: no other civilization has a despised subculture for smart people. Anime is mainstream in Japan; enormous, borderline-crackpot philosophical theories are mainstream in Germany; Fernand Braudel, who wrote The Mediterranean and the Mediterranean World in the Age of Philip II (including footnotes) from memory while he was imprisoned by the Nazis, would be among much more similar minds at Google than at Citigroup.
Note also that if Hodgman really thinks that jockdom wins wars, he hasn't heard of the Battle of Leuctra, to say nothing of the Vietnam War.
You're a dipshit. He's right, there are serious topics, everything is not comedy or tragedy or satire. Aristophanes was fundamentally wrong in his criticism of Socrates (even if it was funny).
A nerd would sign a $100M contract over 6 years with a guaranteed bonus of $20-some-odd million.
There would be a nerd-league that would negotiate TV contracts for all nerds.
ESPN (Entertainment and Sports Programming Network) would be replaced by EFPN (Entertainment and Framework Programming Network).
News outlets won't have a 'sports' section any longer. Replaced by the 'geek' section.
No more Olympics, Superbowl, World Series, Stanley Cup, NBA championships, World Cup, and on and on. Instead the world's attention would be captured by the "Beautiful Code Competition".
And with all that change, the guy with the muscles would still beat the geek to a pulp.
Regards.
The terms liberal and conservative have been destroyed as meaningful terms. This is somewhat because of pundits abusing the terms, but also with the fact that political ideas are more complex than a spectrum with absolute endpoints. Plus, people can be economically conservative but socially liberal and all various combinations. So assigning them a single value only confuses things.
Describing someone's beliefs as "conservative" should convey as much meaning as calling them "red" or "tall"
Part of the issue is that in American society, physical violence is treated differently from verbal abuse. Scenario:
- Nerd: You don't even know what Plank's constant is? You are a meathead idiot!
- Jock: *punch*
- Principal takes Jock to detention, but not Nerd.
In my oversimplified ideal example, both Nerd and Jock used their own skills to assault the other. But the physical attack is treated differently. This may account for some of the social differences.
Hey Faggots,
My name is John, and I hate every single one of you. All of you are fat, retarded, no-lifes who spend every second of their day looking at stupid ass pictures. You are everything bad in the world. Honestly, have any of you ever gotten any pussy? I mean, I guess it's fun making fun of people because of your own insecurities, but you all take to a whole new level. This is even worse than jerking off to pictures on facebook.
Don't be a stranger. Just hit me with your best shot. I'm pretty much perfect. I was captain of the football team, and starter on my basketball team. What sports do you play, other than "jack off to naked drawn Japanese people"? I also get straight A's, and have a banging hot girlfriend (She just blew me; Shit was SO cash). You are all faggots who should just kill yourselves. Thanks for listening.
Pic Related: It's me and my bitch
You just got troll'd!
Because for option one, you may got punished by school officials as well.
For me, I used option one, because community/junior colleges won't care if you have disciplinary record in high school. You essentially start over in a clean slate to build a clean academic record. Once you transfer, most universities will only ask for your transcript in community colleges (except MIT where they will ask your H.S. transcript as well).
There is no bully in a community college because you need to pay for your classes. Bullies either end up in ghettos, trailers or a certain "department of corrections".
New Economic Perspectives
In the 90's we saw the rise of the internet. The internet became the "in thing", and geeks began to receive highly lucrative salaries.
The consumer markets began to tailor their lines to geek culture. The scifi channel rose to top ratings, jpop and anime even broke into mainstream media, and the list goes on.
As the internet became passe and the tech bubble burst, however, all of this began to subside. Science fiction, particularly hard scifi, has virtually dried up. Culminating in the recent "SYFY" rebrand in which they called their old target base basement dwelling anti-social stereotypes.
The lucrative salaries vanished, and with it the market imperative to serve this demographic. Finally, there was the rebellion against all things scientific which continues to this day with the "anti-scifi" of SG:U with its constant vilificaiton of its main scientist protagonist.
Geek culture is on the fall, not on the rise.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
I'm trying to picture a sports bar type place, only...
It is the Nobel Bar. The TV's would play years past and current Nobel Award ceremonies, and the "big event" night, like Monday night football, would be filming inside some guy's lab watching his centrifuge spin;)
So, I'm just saying, you might want to take what he wrote with a big grain of salt. After all, specialization is what got our society where it is today - without it we would all still be living the agrarian lifestyle.
Know something about everything, but everything about something.
Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
When that movie came out, I opined that the ultimate Revenge of the Nerds was that the nerds will grow up to be engineers, and build the world that everybody else has to live in! :)
It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
the end time for Glasgow
A guy's hitchhiking, looking for work in the Great Depression. A big car slows down, and the driver yells at him, "Who are you for in the election?" The guy answers, "Roosevelt!" and the big car peels off and splatters him with gravel. After a little more of this, the guy finally realizes that only rich Republicans have cars and the money to buy gas. So when a fancy sports car slows down to ask the same question, he replies, "Hoover!" The pretty rich girl lets him in, and he can't help noticing that her skirt is way up her thighs. So he says, "For godsakes, lady, pull your skirt down. I've only been a Republican for five minutes, and already I feel like f**king somebody.
Bush Sr was labeled a wimp. It stuck. Jr seemed to fear that label, when he was a wimp/coward. I won't go into the stuff Sr. did; but Sr wasn't a wimp despite the label.
BTW, skydiving is no big deal. 1st time is the hardest; its as easy as falling out of an airplane! It only SOUNDS impressive to people who've never done it. (yes, I've done it more than once. Not worth the money past the 1st couple of times.)
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
photon:
It's pretty easy to understand your bias from your paragraph as well. I'm guessing you're somewhere further to the right.
You were quite quick in your description of the Conservative view to assault a group of people and use negative terms.
Believe me when I say, there are more than a few Conservatives that are far more than happy to take advantage of someone else's money in that country.
The only real difference is who gets to call the shots as to where that money goes.
The author really believes that China is rewarding intellects? According to wikipedia, China spent $40Billion on the 2008 Olympics.
I don't see intellects in any First world country making the same money as athletes. Nike spends on sponsorships $255 to $260million a year and spent $143.4 million on advertising in the first nine months of 2008. Note that Nike is a $31Billion company.
In comparison, the National Science Foundation received a total of $6.49 billion for FY09.
As a kid growing up? I don't recall any commercials saying "I wanna be like Stephen [Hawking]" or kids beating up other kids for some intellectual device, but they were sure beating each other up for a pair of Air Jordans.
Anybody else ever notice that the only commercials on TV for Educational Institutions (besides community or trade schools) are during college football games? Those commercials are only for the two schools that are playing. There's a commercial every 5minutes for sneakers, Under Armor shirts, Fitness equipment, sports drinks or sporting events. (As a side note, anybody recall the last time you saw an advertisement for Educational Software, besides Rosetta Stone? But there's a commercial every hour for some new XBOX/PS3/Wii game).
Intellectuals are enablers of other people to go onto great success. I guarantee you there were a ton of intellectuals that designed the bike, software to track, study the technique of Lance Armstrong's cycling career and victories in the Tour de France. But other than the brand, Trek, those big brained people will never be known, nor will someone pay them $50m in endorsements.
Btw: It's not just athletes vs intellectuals. Not all intellectuals are compensated equally either. I maintain the storage environment for a very large mainframe environment for a household WallStreet financial firm. Over a PB of online FICON disk much of it synchronously replicated to a remote disaster recovery site, and I can assure that my bonus is not even close to that of an entry level trader. I'm sure I could do a lot more damage than that 28yr old MBA.
He claims to be a geek, but does he post on Slashdot? Huh? Well, DOES he?! Thought so. He's gonna have to hand in his geek card, as soon as he receives it, that is.
Rober Oppenheimer might disagree that jocks are the best way to win wars.
informative
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I sincerely advice geeks to explore the unknown world.
Slashdot = Sarcasm
The biggest enemy in the 'rise of the geeks' are, as always, the geeks themselves. This temptation to think of ourselves as special because we 'know computers', 'know science' or enjoy 'intellectual' past times like sci-fi, computer games, tabletop and live action roleplay, etc. I hate to break it to you, but being a geek does not make you special - it just means you have a better chance than average of some specialist knowledge and some non-mainstream past times. It's not an excuse for being rubbish with the wimmins/mans/both, having failed to acquire social skills, or believing that it is acceptable to play MMOs up until a few hours before you need to go to work.
Relative success and awesomeness in life is down to the properties of the individual, not their (often self-granted) label or sense of self-entitlement. I am all for self-empowerment, but the generation that worked out to program the VCR had better realise that their mum can send e-mails and stop being quite so impressed with themselves.
(Disclaimer - I'm not a doctor, but I'm related to a GP, and I did stay in a hotel last night)
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
"you yourself probably went to buy something at walmart after writing that highminded but empty appeal.
There was nothing empty about my appeal. It's fine if you disagree, but calling it 'empty' because you disagree, once again just makes you come across as a fucking moron.
As for walmart, I've never bought anything there. I think I bought something from target once? I'm not a big fan of the retail stores, and no, I don't shop there. I suppose you had to resort to idiocy like this because you couldn't meaningfully address the original topic."
i will file those words right alongside "if you have sex with me i'll still love you in the morning" and "yes, the extended warranty is completely worth the $60"
you buy what you can afford. the amount of cash in your pocket trumps ideology every fucking day. it's not about me disagreeing with you, its about what is fucking possible with the limited financial resources you have
as an allegory, i could tell you that coal is evil, so i am not ever going to use electricity from that source ever again... and then i am sitting here, in front of my computer, completely breaking my word and being a hypocrite as my computer chugs along on electricity from a coal burning plant. because its impossible NOT to use coal when you flick the switch. it isn't about your PRINCIPLES, it is about what is REALISTICALLY POSSIBLE. and if you had the slightest bit of intellectual honesty about you, you would admit its not possible, due to whatever high minded principle of yours, to go out of your way, waste your time, and spend 200-300% what you normally spend. especially, if you are like everyone else, you're just scraping by in this economy
of course it is possible to do ANYTHING, to never to buy anything from china. but that is COMPLETELY UNREALISTIC if you are trying to just live a normal life. such that demanding that people not by stuff from china, and that's the only way you can have principles, is NEVER going to fly, because the added hassle and expense is simply not worth it for 99% of us
you can call me any names you want. i simply request that you stop LYING. because you are LYING if you believe these so-called "principles" of yours are anything but delusions of a turd who can never actually implement what he says his high-minded principles are. and even if you were some freak like those guys who run 250 mile ultramarathons in death valley or say "i'll never have sex again" and then actually never have sex again, then you are a completely and utterly just a rare fringe case, and not anyone whose lifestyle is instructive or useful for the vast majority of everyone else
so stop trying to trumpet your nuttiness and expect it to have any validity about real people's lives. stop LYING. principles are about applying high minded concepts to real world demands. they aren't about applying impossible restrictions to real world lives. those aren't principles, that's just loony nutbag territory. but of course, loony nutbags will believe they are superior for their nuttiness. but they don't have anything valid to say about real, normal, every day lives
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Man look at me now top of the celebrity hold and holding off the girls who want to be with me. I mean serious what girl doesn't get off with me installing Gentoo Linux, running my home with x10 adapters, hacking my Apple TV with Boxee, and controlling my computers from my Droid phone. I'm sure she loves the countless /played hours of lvling my hunter in WoW. This makes me a hot shot right?
It just makes the jock-dominant culture more courteous and community minded.
Perfect example of this right here in PDX... the Rasheed Wallace, Bonzi Wells old-style Jail-Blazers is gone The "new" Brandon Roy-led "make-it-better" Portland Trail Blazers 2.0 is now the standard.
http://www.nba.com/blazers/makeitbetter/
Don't even try to pretend the Blazers won't own PDX for a long time into the future, but very public bad behavior isn't tolerated by the fans anymore. The fans have learned they can demand of their team players/staff a certain standard of behavior, and the team management made sure they brought in players who would positive community assets.