Nope you don't need the whole Eclipse environment - There is an installer Win32 package available on the sourceforge website which included SWT library that is needed so I think you should give it another try!
Java is "slow" because Sun has give us a brain dead GUI components. If you are looking at server side running things like EJBs, JSPs and servlets it is just as competitive as.NET framework.
There are a lot of pending improvement on Java GUI front, like Eclipse Rich Client Framework using SWT and hopefully it will not be "slow" anymore
I graduated in Department of Computing, Imperial College, London (www.doc.ic.ac.uk) 2001 and found myself a job in a certain huge IT company (which has been around for 60-70 years!) so let me tell you my take on things.
I am lucky to join this company as an internship for 6months during the summer - I may not have all the languages and things that people ask for they are impressed with my grasp of what's going on, plus my involvement with Linux user groups and stuff like that.
A good computing course should expose you to all sorts of technology, techniques and theory. All programming languages, network protocols and stuff like that are pretty much utilitise similar theory and fundamental ideas - once you learn the basics of one you should be able to pick it up the other - In my first year I learnt Turing (http://www.holtsoft.com/turing/) and that teaches me to do a lot of stuff like data structures and stuff. I made a good grasp of how to write those algorithm using Turing and in second term I just pick up C and start writing within a few hours. (okay, I have done a bit of programming before, but a lot of my classmate have never programmed before they join the course, and they are now programming like a pro!)
A good employee should hire people by their general technical comptency, not by the certificate create by certain company whoose name start with M. A good computer grad should be able to pick up specific skills in the job. You will be amaze how clueless are the people who have MCSE certificate!
I would say to you there is no easy money in the world, especially time is tough (I am lucky I got in just before the crash). Work hard and learn hard and you will be rewarded!
The performance gain won't be as much as you would hope - remember your class files may change in between different invocation of the JVM, therefore checks will needs to be made to make sure those code segments are still valid - and that may be more work then it is worth.
I am quite happy to see so many innovation lately in the market in order to make Java to be more desktop friendy - I am a Eclipse fan and I think Sun is trying to dampen down the momentum being built up in the Eclipse RCP (Rich Client Platform http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/platform- ui-home/rcp-proposal/rich_client_platform_faciliti es.html?rev=HEAD) camp.
Anyway I am not particularly worry about splitting the community - the best will wins in the long run - look at GNOME and KDE - there has been so much innovation coming out of them. As long as the source is there, it will all be good!
Re:joe, jed, vi, vim?
on
JOE Hits 3.0
·
· Score: 1
Oh my gracious.... I just tried on my Windows 2000 box and yes it does work
Geeezzzz.... All the memories from my good old childhood - those "good" times I spent fiddling config.sys in edlin just to get some game to work...
Re:joe, jed, vi, vim?
on
JOE Hits 3.0
·
· Score: 1
Joy... I remember on my first PC it has PC-DOS 2.0 (hong kong dodgy copy!).. and the only editior on it is EDLIN... I have joy learning how to add a new line to a text file. I am glad EDLIN has long gone..
Arghhh... it shows you my "experience"... (okay I am only 26 so I am not old!)
I use Eclipse for most of my programming needs nowadays. For chaning resolv.conf, etc. (we have dodgy DNS server around here) I use vi...
But... everyone knows Sun's development tools is useless - but no worries, cause that's where IBM's Websphere Studio Application Developer (Eclipse based) comes to rescue! Eclipse is fast, it's well integrated and it's quite point and clicky (I can make a Web Service from Javabean with a few clicks!).
I think one of the healthy thing about Java is that it is open and everyone can come and play - there are plenty of other good java IDE out there other than Sun's.
Java IDE is catching up very quicky so I am confident that Java will still be there in years to come!
Take a look at the comment of the "alledge" dodgy code:/* $Id: ate_utils.c,v 1.1 2002/02/28 17:31:25 marcelo Exp $
*
* This file is subject to the terms and conditions of the GNU General Public
* License. See the file "COPYING" in the main directory of this archive
* for more details.
*
* Copyright (C) 1992 - 1997, 2000-2002 Silicon Graphics, Inc. All rights reserved.
*/
Hmm... So maybe they ain't going after the right company after all?
Oh, Thinkpad is big in Japan, and worldwide coverage comes free. Just pop it into any odd IBM PC office (you can find it in pc support website) and they will fix it if it is under warranty!
Well, you can call IBM up for a Recovery CD - but you will have to pay for the shipment.
As long as you keep the recovery partition as it is, you should be able to run it - it's just a "hidden" fat partition - see this document for information on how to run it under LILO/GRUB.
You can always use Partition Magic to back it up and store it somewhere safe (which I do!)
Having said that I always recommend a Thinkpad, even though I didn't work for them before. Okay, they may be black, they may be builky, but the screen is really nice and probably the best keyboard in the market. Most of the laptop are pretty much 90% Intel but then it is all those little touches that count. You should have a look at the 15" screen that exists on A series thinkpad...... They are nice (I am using it to write this reply!)
I and using a A31 at the moment that I've got from EPP (IBM's employee purchase plan)... The price is okay but due to the UK tax law here they can't offer employees much better than most shops out there. My previous laptop is a A20m and I have abused it for 3 years (literatlly - dropping it on the floor, breaking the USB connector, etc). There are cracks and stuff but everything still works great as day one when I passed it onto my cousin.
I may be biased, but trust me, IBM Thinkpad is probably the most durable ones you can find out there.
Just to correct you, the IBM largest Java development centre is actually in the cold and damp England, located at Hursely, near Winchester, south of United Kingdom
Go to www.hursley.ibm.com for more infomration
I am actually working on IBM's JVM so I know;-p
I am not going to comment anything else as I am an IBM employee.
I think I would and go and tell myself try and learn some music - it is such a useful tool to get laid...
Otherwise I think I did all the right things soo....
Re:Sun has been sunset but Java is in safe hand...
on
The Faded Sun
·
· Score: 1
You will be surprise how fast JVM Implementation can get. I am in the VM business (I work for IBM on IBM Java VM) and there is a constant drive to get better and better. Right now our JVM is targeted for server application and we are getting quite good at it... it is just the client side implementation is not quite good..
but then client side is a small piece of the pie... the meat is in the server side and they are very decent, I can tell you.
Sun has been sunset but Java is in safe hand...
on
The Faded Sun
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
To all those Java programmers, don't worry it is all fine, Sun maybe gthe past but there are big market with Java and IBM has put quite a lot of eggs in the Java basket.... so does BEA, HP, etc. It is being though in university as the programming language of choice, so you have all those up coming Computer Eng/Sci grad who is fluent in Java. Now beat that C#....
Java is a nice lovely language. Bar all the silly Swing/AWT APIs it is still very structured and quick to knock up a prototype, and easily to get things going. The VM implmentation may be bad at the moment but I am sure once Sun has loosen the control of Java (maybe get bought out or something), couple with a decent VM implementation C# may not be as attractive as it seems!
Well, I am only a Trainee Software Engineer in a dark, cold corner of certain European country, I can't really tell you what exactly they are thinking, but I think what they want unite these "non-connected" server brands (Netfinity and Windows/Linux, RS/6000 and AIX, AS/400 and OS/400, S/390 and OS/390), into single brand, e-servers. (e-business is an IBM coined term...), and respectively x, p, i, z
You see... now when you thinking of buying a mainframe, our sales call it e-server z-series... much more e-business friendy! And they can also sell you a e-server x-series to run your Windows/Linux app!
Buy IBM, Buy IBM, Buy IBM! (I am a shareholder as well!)!
Oh. I have a feeling that I am going to get my bottom kick by marketing dept and my manager;-p
I think OS/2 deserve to get one minute slience from all slashdot readers on the day it withdrawn from market..... and remember the good things they bring you: Boot Manager, Presentation Manager, Your Manager, blah manager....
A funny story: when we (IBM) realign all the servers from their IBM names to Marketing names (x/i/a/z-series), they need to rename their OS. So, as we all know System/390 (IBM mainframe) turns into Z-series. The marketing department needs to decide a new name for the OS/390 (which runs these mainframes)... so guess what, they first come up with this name: OS/Z....and you can tell the OS/390 team is not pleased.................... "I WILL NOT HAVE MY OS NAMED AFTER OS/2" - apprantly it can be heard in the floor below and above by one of the manager.......
For those slashdot reader who study in Imperial College London, you will find the Nationwide ATM machine there runs on NT 4.0 - it crashes quite offen and you get the famous NT 4 login prompt (CTRL-ALT-DELETE)
I am so tempted to plug a keyboard in, log on with default admin password and get the cash counter to count me some cash.
But damn. I couldn't find CTRL-ALT-DELETE key on the damn ATM keypad............
But you misses the point - what I am trying to say is that the differences between languages are merely syntax - just like British English and American English - The basics are the same (gammars, construct) the difference are the slang and stuff! Although I have been in UK for 10 years (Chinese is my first language) sometimes I have a little trouble adjust to American Colleagues;-p (what's this got to do with programming language?!!)
This guy who first posts the message has been using C and stuff, and I don't think he will have a problem picking up Java... It is more important for him to learn good OO concepts and construct (patterns, etc) which can be applied to almost all of the OO languages (with minor modification!)
Tools shouldn't be difficult to pick it up either. Sometimes emacs/vi/whatever is better then all those expensive development environment... some people like working with those but some don't. You just need to find your way.
Personally I use WSAD (I get it "free" as I work for IBM) to do most of my J2SE stuff - I would be just as happy writing java program with notepad!
Slashdot Mirror
Nope you don't need the whole Eclipse environment - There is an installer Win32 package available on the sourceforge website which included SWT library that is needed so I think you should give it another try!
String Manipulation is okay - nowadays the java compiler optimises those pretty well - what problem do you have?
Azureus: http://sourceforge.net/projects/azureus/
Eclipse project: http://www.eclipse.org
Well... but the number 2 most-active project on sourceforge, Azureus BitTorrent client, is written in Java and it looks real good.
If only everyone knows how to write Java properly....
Java is "slow" because Sun has give us a brain dead GUI components. If you are looking at server side running things like EJBs, JSPs and servlets it is just as competitive as .NET framework.
There are a lot of pending improvement on Java GUI front, like Eclipse Rich Client Framework using SWT and hopefully it will not be "slow" anymore
I graduated in Department of Computing, Imperial College, London (www.doc.ic.ac.uk) 2001 and found myself a job in a certain huge IT company (which has been around for 60-70 years!) so let me tell you my take on things.
I am lucky to join this company as an internship for 6months during the summer - I may not have all the languages and things that people ask for they are impressed with my grasp of what's going on, plus my involvement with Linux user groups and stuff like that.
A good computing course should expose you to all sorts of technology, techniques and theory. All programming languages, network protocols and stuff like that are pretty much utilitise similar theory and fundamental ideas - once you learn the basics of one you should be able to pick it up the other - In my first year I learnt Turing (http://www.holtsoft.com/turing/) and that teaches me to do a lot of stuff like data structures and stuff. I made a good grasp of how to write those algorithm using Turing and in second term I just pick up C and start writing within a few hours. (okay, I have done a bit of programming before, but a lot of my classmate have never programmed before they join the course, and they are now programming like a pro!)
A good employee should hire people by their general technical comptency, not by the certificate create by certain company whoose name start with M. A good computer grad should be able to pick up specific skills in the job. You will be amaze how clueless are the people who have MCSE certificate!
I would say to you there is no easy money in the world, especially time is tough (I am lucky I got in just before the crash). Work hard and learn hard and you will be rewarded!
Good luck, hang in there.
Sorry, but ebay use Websphere as well....
s f/ CS/NAVO-5DFURA?OpenDocument&Site=tivoli
http://www-306.ibm.com/software/success/cssdb.n
The performance gain won't be as much as you would hope - remember your class files may change in between different invocation of the JVM, therefore checks will needs to be made to make sure those code segments are still valid - and that may be more work then it is worth.
I am quite happy to see so many innovation lately in the market in order to make Java to be more desktop friendy - I am a Eclipse fan and I think Sun is trying to dampen down the momentum being built up in the Eclipse RCP (Rich Client Platform http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/platform- ui-home/rcp-proposal/rich_client_platform_faciliti es.html?rev=HEAD) camp.
Anyway I am not particularly worry about splitting the community - the best will wins in the long run - look at GNOME and KDE - there has been so much innovation coming out of them. As long as the source is there, it will all be good!
Oh my gracious.... I just tried on my Windows 2000 box and yes it does work
.... All the memories from my good old childhood - those "good" times I spent fiddling config.sys in edlin just to get some game to work...
Geeezzzz
Joy... I remember on my first PC it has PC-DOS 2.0 (hong kong dodgy copy!).. and the only editior on it is EDLIN... I have joy learning how to add a new line to a text file. I am glad EDLIN has long gone..
Arghhh... it shows you my "experience"... (okay I am only 26 so I am not old!)
I use Eclipse for most of my programming needs nowadays. For chaning resolv.conf, etc. (we have dodgy DNS server around here) I use vi...
But... everyone knows Sun's development tools is useless - but no worries, cause that's where IBM's Websphere Studio Application Developer (Eclipse based) comes to rescue! Eclipse is fast, it's well integrated and it's quite point and clicky (I can make a Web Service from Javabean with a few clicks!).
I think one of the healthy thing about Java is that it is open and everyone can come and play - there are plenty of other good java IDE out there other than Sun's.
Java IDE is catching up very quicky so I am confident that Java will still be there in years to come!
Take a look at the comment of the "alledge" dodgy code: /* $Id: ate_utils.c,v 1.1 2002/02/28 17:31:25 marcelo Exp $
*
* This file is subject to the terms and conditions of the GNU General Public
* License. See the file "COPYING" in the main directory of this archive
* for more details.
*
* Copyright (C) 1992 - 1997, 2000-2002 Silicon Graphics, Inc. All rights reserved.
*/
Hmm... So maybe they ain't going after the right company after all?
You can now download SWT on its own in Eclipse website.
Go to the Eclipse 2.1 download page, then scroll down the bottom and you should find the "SWT Binary and Source".
Oh, Thinkpad is big in Japan, and worldwide coverage comes free. Just pop it into any odd IBM PC office (you can find it in pc support website) and they will fix it if it is under warranty!
Well, you can call IBM up for a Recovery CD - but you will have to pay for the shipment.
As long as you keep the recovery partition as it is, you should be able to run it - it's just a "hidden" fat partition - see this document for information on how to run it under LILO/GRUB.
You can always use Partition Magic to back it up and store it somewhere safe (which I do!)
You can use Service Partition repair diskette to reinitiate the partition.
Hope this helps!
*Disclaimer* I am an IBM employee.
Having said that I always recommend a Thinkpad, even though I didn't work for them before. Okay, they may be black, they may be builky, but the screen is really nice and probably the best keyboard in the market. Most of the laptop are pretty much 90% Intel but then it is all those little touches that count. You should have a look at the 15" screen that exists on A series thinkpad...... They are nice (I am using it to write this reply!)
I and using a A31 at the moment that I've got from EPP (IBM's employee purchase plan)... The price is okay but due to the UK tax law here they can't offer employees much better than most shops out there. My previous laptop is a A20m and I have abused it for 3 years (literatlly - dropping it on the floor, breaking the USB connector, etc). There are cracks and stuff but everything still works great as day one when I passed it onto my cousin.
I may be biased, but trust me, IBM Thinkpad is probably the most durable ones you can find out there.
Just to correct you, the IBM largest Java development centre is actually in the cold and damp England, located at Hursely, near Winchester, south of United Kingdom
;-p
Go to www.hursley.ibm.com for more infomration
I am actually working on IBM's JVM so I know
I am not going to comment anything else as I am an IBM employee.
I think I would and go and tell myself try and learn some music - it is such a useful tool to get laid...
Otherwise I think I did all the right things soo....
You will be surprise how fast JVM Implementation can get. I am in the VM business (I work for IBM on IBM Java VM) and there is a constant drive to get better and better. Right now our JVM is targeted for server application and we are getting quite good at it... it is just the client side implementation is not quite good..
but then client side is a small piece of the pie... the meat is in the server side and they are very decent, I can tell you.
To all those Java programmers, don't worry it is all fine, Sun maybe gthe past but there are big market with Java and IBM has put quite a lot of eggs in the Java basket.... so does BEA, HP, etc. It is being though in university as the programming language of choice, so you have all those up coming Computer Eng/Sci grad who is fluent in Java. Now beat that C#....
Java is a nice lovely language. Bar all the silly Swing/AWT APIs it is still very structured and quick to knock up a prototype, and easily to get things going. The VM implmentation may be bad at the moment but I am sure once Sun has loosen the control of Java (maybe get bought out or something), couple with a decent VM implementation C# may not be as attractive as it seems!
Well, I am only a Trainee Software Engineer in a dark, cold corner of certain European country, I can't really tell you what exactly they are thinking, but I think what they want unite these "non-connected" server brands (Netfinity and Windows/Linux, RS/6000 and AIX, AS/400 and OS/400, S/390 and OS/390), into single brand, e-servers. (e-business is an IBM coined term...), and respectively x, p, i, z
;-p
You see... now when you thinking of buying a mainframe, our sales call it e-server z-series... much more e-business friendy! And they can also sell you a e-server x-series to run your Windows/Linux app!
Buy IBM, Buy IBM, Buy IBM! (I am a shareholder as well!)!
Oh. I have a feeling that I am going to get my bottom kick by marketing dept and my manager
I think OS/2 deserve to get one minute slience from all slashdot readers on the day it withdrawn from market..... and remember the good things they bring you: Boot Manager, Presentation Manager, Your Manager, blah manager....
A funny story: when we (IBM) realign all the servers from their IBM names to Marketing names (x/i/a/z-series), they need to rename their OS. So, as we all know System/390 (IBM mainframe) turns into Z-series. The marketing department needs to decide a new name for the OS/390 (which runs these mainframes)... so guess what, they first come up with this name: OS/Z....and you can tell the OS/390 team is not pleased.................... "I WILL NOT HAVE MY OS NAMED AFTER OS/2" - apprantly it can be heard in the floor below and above by one of the manager.......
OS/2 Rest in peace. We will remember you.
For those slashdot reader who study in Imperial College London, you will find the Nationwide ATM machine there runs on NT 4.0 - it crashes quite offen and you get the famous NT 4 login prompt (CTRL-ALT-DELETE)
I am so tempted to plug a keyboard in, log on with default admin password and get the cash counter to count me some cash.
But damn. I couldn't find CTRL-ALT-DELETE key on the damn ATM keypad............
But you misses the point - what I am trying to say is that the differences between languages are merely syntax - just like British English and American English - The basics are the same (gammars, construct) the difference are the slang and stuff! Although I have been in UK for 10 years (Chinese is my first language) sometimes I have a little trouble adjust to American Colleagues ;-p (what's this got to do with programming language?!!)
This guy who first posts the message has been using C and stuff, and I don't think he will have a problem picking up Java... It is more important for him to learn good OO concepts and construct (patterns, etc) which can be applied to almost all of the OO languages (with minor modification!)
Tools shouldn't be difficult to pick it up either. Sometimes emacs/vi/whatever is better then all those expensive development environment... some people like working with those but some don't. You just need to find your way.
Personally I use WSAD (I get it "free" as I work for IBM) to do most of my J2SE stuff - I would be just as happy writing java program with notepad!