Excellent points. For most people, however, the RAM, hard drive, cpu and video card updates are plenty adequate, even on the skimpy Apple store. A lot of non-techie people don't really care if there are 14,238 different video cards available. They see the stock configuration, and then one that's better for $100 more. I think it is "good enough" for most people. Power-users, as evident by this discussion, are going to be too savvy to buy the over-priced pre-installed stuff anyway, so way cater to them?
"Tie-In Sales" Provisions
Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.
In order to keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum Brand Filter Bags. Failure to have scheduled maintenance performed, at your expense, by the Great American Maintenance Company, Inc., voids this warranty.
While you cannot use a tie-in sales provision, your warranty need not cover use of replacement parts, repairs, or maintenance that is inappropriate for your product. The following is an example of a permissible provision that excludes coverage of such things.
While necessary maintenance or repairs on your AudioMundo Stereo System can be performed by any company, we recommend that you use only authorized AudioMundo dealers. Improper or incorrectly performed maintenance or repair voids this warranty.
So unless the company can prove that you improperly or incorrectly installed RAM, then you are safe.
Maybe he's on to something. A Mac with the latest OS runs just fine on 1gb or ram, let alone 2. I hear that may not be the case with other competitors.
You forgot to mention the hours (and hours, and hours, and restarts) it takes to get that Dell working again (if it's running any flavor of Windows) after you swap drives. The Mac reboots first try (ahhh, the joy of proprietary hardware!)
Yes, I'm an ignorant person, with my masters in nothing remotely related to computers (MAEd. in Computer Education). I'm obviously stupid and can't do a simple RAM upgrade myself and see NO VALUE whatsoever in purchasing 25 pre-upgraded systems for the school I'm in charge of buying computers for. Thanks for contributing!
Apple offers no instructions other than "bring your computer to an Apple Store and buy RAM from us" when it comes to upgrading a Mac Mini.
Spoken like a true hater. All Mac models most certainly have directions for replacing the RAM (and the hard drive). Seriously, what contribution does your post make to this discussion?
So what are you going to do once you get rid of you '72 Nova? How do I work on MY car by myself (2008 Mazdaspeed3) without blowing up the turbo? What car built in the past 15 years (other than a Jeep) is able to be worked on by its owner?
You forgot one, and it is probably #1...convenience. To some people (cough, me), money isn't the #1 factor in computer value and getting something fully loaded the way I want it is much more convenient than spending the next two days driving around town (or waiting for the package). To be frank, $100 more than I should pay for a couple sticks of ram is no big deal, and my family will still be able to eat.
Who changes their own oil these days? It costs MORE to buy the oil yourself than it does to take it to Jiffy-Lube (or wherever), get the same oil, have someone change your oil, and most importantly, DISPOSE of your oil, as most states now have rules in place for that.
I just checked on the entry level MacBook hard drive upgrade prices. The upgrade to a 250gb drive is $150. The same drive goes from anywhere from $80-$200 online (quick check, nothing deep...as I imagine most people would do). Even if the $80 one didn't come with all kinds of gimmicks and hidden handling charges, I image Dell/Sony/et. al. couldn't beat that price either.
hmmm... too bad Apple doesn't make any computer hardware.
Yeah, it's not like Apple would actually need a Senior Vice President of Industrial Design if they DIDN'T make any computer hardware. I'm not sure if your post was a flame or just wrong. Either way, it needed to be corrected.
So you are stating the obvious -- don't configure a high-end machine via the Mac Store, lest ye not get a very good value. An upgrade here and there (hard drive, video card) on an iMac, on the other hand, is a perfectly legitimate expense.
As already stated in this thread, it is illegal for a retailer to claim you have to have memory upgrades done with them in order not to void your warranty. I think this can be officially filed under old-wives'-tale.
I bought a 20" iMac a couple years ago and configured it on the Apple store website. I passed up on the RAM upgrades, because they were insanely out-of-proportion with the market. I didn't pass up on the bigger hard drive ($40?) or the better video card ($150) because they weren't priced much more than if I bought the same thing at Best Buy. Since I'm not easily able to upgrade a hard drive and video card in an iMac myself, the small premium to have it pre-installed was well worth the additional cost. What's the story here again?
I laugh whenever I hear someone use the term "chicken little" in order to dismiss a negative opinion.
...Guess who turned out to be right?
My point exactly. Just like when I was in 3rd grade (1977) and I was taught we would be out fossil fuels by the year 1990. Good call! If you go back to my first post, I said I was glad the ice would melt, so we would know once and for all if Manhattan would go 10 feet under water, or Al Gore is the modern day Chicken Little. I'm betting on the chicken.
Don't forget n-dashes for page number ranges! Oh yeah, and don't forget that my post was full of self-deprecating humor, and of course I know what the accent marks are. More importantly, they are easy to type on a Mac, a little bit harder on a PC, and I have NO IDEA how to write them in html;-)
--stu
I have to disagree with anyone who thinks a MacBook or an entry level iMac are somehow expensive. Compared to similar models, or compared to higher priced models ability to barely do more, anyone who thinks iMacs/MacBooks are NOT moderately priced are just cheap. The point I'm making is an incredibly rewarding user experience doesn't have to cost a small fortune. Apple gets it, Dell doesn't. With Dell you have either bottom-dollar crap, or insanely expensive nice machines. Where's the middle ground? Better yet, the middle ground is there, but why does it suck so greatly compared to Apple's middle ground?
Slashdot Mirror
Excellent points. For most people, however, the RAM, hard drive, cpu and video card updates are plenty adequate, even on the skimpy Apple store. A lot of non-techie people don't really care if there are 14,238 different video cards available. They see the stock configuration, and then one that's better for $100 more. I think it is "good enough" for most people. Power-users, as evident by this discussion, are going to be too savvy to buy the over-priced pre-installed stuff anyway, so way cater to them?
... perhaps I would have legal recourse should I need to exercise my warranty rights after having personally upgraded the memory.
Yes you would (sorry to steal the first guy's link, but it bears repeating): http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty.shtm
"Tie-In Sales" Provisions Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.
In order to keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum Brand Filter Bags. Failure to have scheduled maintenance performed, at your expense, by the Great American Maintenance Company, Inc., voids this warranty.
While you cannot use a tie-in sales provision, your warranty need not cover use of replacement parts, repairs, or maintenance that is inappropriate for your product. The following is an example of a permissible provision that excludes coverage of such things.
While necessary maintenance or repairs on your AudioMundo Stereo System can be performed by any company, we recommend that you use only authorized AudioMundo dealers. Improper or incorrectly performed maintenance or repair voids this warranty.
So unless the company can prove that you improperly or incorrectly installed RAM, then you are safe.
Apple also leads the Customer Satisfaction index every year, by a long margin, mostly due to the technology--not the customer service.
So you are saying the computing experience is much more than the sum of its parts? That's gotta be news to most slashdotters!
Maybe he's on to something. A Mac with the latest OS runs just fine on 1gb or ram, let alone 2. I hear that may not be the case with other competitors.
You forgot to mention the hours (and hours, and hours, and restarts) it takes to get that Dell working again (if it's running any flavor of Windows) after you swap drives. The Mac reboots first try (ahhh, the joy of proprietary hardware!)
And having to install an airport card in a Mac has been relevant since when again, exactly?
Yes, I'm an ignorant person, with my masters in nothing remotely related to computers (MAEd. in Computer Education). I'm obviously stupid and can't do a simple RAM upgrade myself and see NO VALUE whatsoever in purchasing 25 pre-upgraded systems for the school I'm in charge of buying computers for. Thanks for contributing!
Apple offers no instructions other than "bring your computer to an Apple Store and buy RAM from us" when it comes to upgrading a Mac Mini.
Spoken like a true hater. All Mac models most certainly have directions for replacing the RAM (and the hard drive). Seriously, what contribution does your post make to this discussion?
So what are you going to do once you get rid of you '72 Nova? How do I work on MY car by myself (2008 Mazdaspeed3) without blowing up the turbo? What car built in the past 15 years (other than a Jeep) is able to be worked on by its owner?
You forgot one, and it is probably #1...convenience. To some people (cough, me), money isn't the #1 factor in computer value and getting something fully loaded the way I want it is much more convenient than spending the next two days driving around town (or waiting for the package). To be frank, $100 more than I should pay for a couple sticks of ram is no big deal, and my family will still be able to eat.
You forgot the one about Open Source, Linux, and Ron Paul being the saviors of the free world!
Who changes their own oil these days? It costs MORE to buy the oil yourself than it does to take it to Jiffy-Lube (or wherever), get the same oil, have someone change your oil, and most importantly, DISPOSE of your oil, as most states now have rules in place for that.
I just checked on the entry level MacBook hard drive upgrade prices. The upgrade to a 250gb drive is $150. The same drive goes from anywhere from $80-$200 online (quick check, nothing deep...as I imagine most people would do). Even if the $80 one didn't come with all kinds of gimmicks and hidden handling charges, I image Dell/Sony/et. al. couldn't beat that price either.
hmmm... too bad Apple doesn't make any computer hardware.
Yeah, it's not like Apple would actually need a Senior Vice President of Industrial Design if they DIDN'T make any computer hardware. I'm not sure if your post was a flame or just wrong. Either way, it needed to be corrected.
So you are stating the obvious -- don't configure a high-end machine via the Mac Store, lest ye not get a very good value. An upgrade here and there (hard drive, video card) on an iMac, on the other hand, is a perfectly legitimate expense.
As already stated in this thread, it is illegal for a retailer to claim you have to have memory upgrades done with them in order not to void your warranty. I think this can be officially filed under old-wives'-tale.
I bought a 20" iMac a couple years ago and configured it on the Apple store website. I passed up on the RAM upgrades, because they were insanely out-of-proportion with the market. I didn't pass up on the bigger hard drive ($40?) or the better video card ($150) because they weren't priced much more than if I bought the same thing at Best Buy. Since I'm not easily able to upgrade a hard drive and video card in an iMac myself, the small premium to have it pre-installed was well worth the additional cost. What's the story here again?
I laugh whenever I hear someone use the term "chicken little" in order to dismiss a negative opinion.
My point exactly. Just like when I was in 3rd grade (1977) and I was taught we would be out fossil fuels by the year 1990. Good call! If you go back to my first post, I said I was glad the ice would melt, so we would know once and for all if Manhattan would go 10 feet under water, or Al Gore is the modern day Chicken Little. I'm betting on the chicken.
So what am I doing wrong &mdash for example &mdash ??
Files are protected using PGP, or Pretty Good Privacy, a virtually unbreakable form of encryption software
Please, please, please, please keep telling yourselves that...
Don't forget n-dashes for page number ranges! Oh yeah, and don't forget that my post was full of self-deprecating humor, and of course I know what the accent marks are. More importantly, they are easy to type on a Mac, a little bit harder on a PC, and I have NO IDEA how to write them in html ;-)
--stu
How do you wage a war on a country, while trying to save the country?
That's the problem in Iraq (as with Vietnam). Using the Army as nation-builders is flawed. The Army exists to kill people and blow stuff up.
When agents of the US government censor, torture and otherwise violate the US Constitution, enemies of the US can claim hypocrisy.
That's pretty bold calling Democrats "enemies"!
I have to disagree with anyone who thinks a MacBook or an entry level iMac are somehow expensive. Compared to similar models, or compared to higher priced models ability to barely do more, anyone who thinks iMacs/MacBooks are NOT moderately priced are just cheap. The point I'm making is an incredibly rewarding user experience doesn't have to cost a small fortune. Apple gets it, Dell doesn't. With Dell you have either bottom-dollar crap, or insanely expensive nice machines. Where's the middle ground? Better yet, the middle ground is there, but why does it suck so greatly compared to Apple's middle ground?