No, you should you get YOUR head into the 21st Century.
The NSA is like a doctor handing out medications to a patient with chronic illnesses. He's trying to treat the issue after the fact. A better way to handle it might be,"Why would people WANT to commit acts X,Y & Z? Maybe government policy should reflect trying to fix the cause and not just the symptoms." The NSA is doing what EVERYONE does: They're justifying their paycheck/actions. Building huge infrastructure assures that they feel as though what they're doing is legitimate, and they have the excuse to keep doing big projects and getting fat paychecks for years. After all, if the NSA doesn't monitor everyone who will? Well that's a false argument. NO ONE should be.
Getting to the cause of these issues, like meddling in foreign affairs that we shouldn't be, ought to be the focus. Not justification for practices that don't actually make us safer. You knwo what will happen? People will go back to using code, and meeting in person. They'll go low tech, and when they attack it will totally catch the NSA off guard. They'll wonder how they missed it, and will try to treat the symptoms again rather than the cause, further eroding what few rights we have left.
Just for those of us who don't play all the new shiny games that come out, or who have professions that keep us pretty shackled to work, or who are just plain ignorant, could the summary PLEASE SPELL OUT wtf DOTA is? It's sounds really stupid when I say it in my head or out loud, like "Dote" only said in a baby's voice. Doesn't make me want to play it.
rest of the discussion is great, but please please please provide enough information for people to know what the heck is going on, submitters?
Let's see...... what issues do many political parties seem to have these days? Oh yeah! They one that gets people riled up to elect them.
That's not a stance, that's a sales pitch. I can't vote for a pirate party here (in the U.S..... hmmm... maybe someone could start one?) but I can say that deciding NOT to have a stance seems just fine to me. If foreign policy isn't their strong suit, so be it. They're representing good policies that matter.
Please define "section 1131(a) or 30166 of title 49, United States Code" That's the an important, ambiguous part as I see it printed. "Investigation or inspection" could EASILY mean that a VIPR team or police officer can stop you and check your data log whenever they want. You know that NDAA thing? I would assume it allows pretty easy circumvention of this law via that little clause in 2.c, but maybe I'm being overly worried.
I'm sure the insurance industry will be HAPPY to look at those medical records which CONVENIENTLY have your shiny new black box information attached to them under 2.d
Look, I know there are some good arguments for having something like this, but for heaven's sake the entire idea of being tracked like this is super creepy. What happens when someone gets a hold of this data? What happens if the data is hacked in some way, or tampered with? What if someone maliciously tampers with this, how do you prove that it wasn't you who did it? What will the insurance and legal ramifications be? Lawyers are going to LOVE these little boxes.
Oh, and just to be clear, I don't have kids. I'm not terribly keen on having kids either, but it could still happen. My arguments are similar to the GPP: It's really important to understand what in the hell you're getting into. Even then, I know that nothing can prepare someone for becoming a parent. Shit, look what happened to Bill Cosby:P
This. Contractors should have the same standards as Certified Engineers. If it breaks before they say it's supposed to, make them liable to fix it. Right now it's like a company selling you a product that says it can do certain things, but when you get it home it doesn't do what they told you. It's criminal.
Sounds like a ripe opportunity for some good developers to write lean, mean code that gets back to basics and provides blazing-fast speed on modern machines, making the current guys look like buffons.
It's all a pendulum, the way I see it. We're back to the "Assembly" days in a way. Going back to basics, or building systems/code that can take current code and optimize it automatically for that, is probably a HUGE money vault just waiting for someone to open, if your idea is correct (which I fully admit it could be)
OTOH, those languages allow people to write programs that work all over the place. They standardize, making the time spent by a coder more efficient since they don't have to write for multiple platforms. Whether that's a net benefit in the grand scheme seems like it might be subjective, but if it were possible to break down into cost/benefit (hours/efficiency so people could go home at 4 on Friday instead of working into Saturday for instance) then I'm at least a rough guesstimate/discussion.
In terms of the internet pipes, I think people will innovate as resources (bandwidth) tightens. The internet is how we do business, and at some point people might get fed up with telcos and just start building their own local networks and caching the content like the BBS's of old. Mesh networks or public wifi with content hosted on a cluster of servers in someone's apartment, or long distance wifi, or microwave, I don't know.
Personally, I think those sorts of things would be a HUGE boon to telcos: Allow neighborhoods, towns, or even cities to own their own networks and host content, allowing citizens/local government to alter their systems as necessary to accommodate traffic. Heck, it could be a draw for some cities that they a great network.
I'll try a non-car analogy: It's like the federal vs state government. Right now we have what is effectively a dictatorship run by 3 big fat greasy bastards. It's too much for them to actually handle, but they like the income. Make it more like the U.S. government (just stick with me) and have a "federal" i.e. national set of carriers (or even federally owned/mandated) like the utility companies, and then have a state and local level for the infrastructure as well, perhaps. It could be more flexible, perhaps, and expand/contract as necessary.
There may be a crunch, but the inefficiencies in the system are rampant because we've been long on providing "resources" to the beast without overseeing a good system manage those resources. The internet will go on a diet, get leaner and meaner and more efficient, and it will be better than ever.
"Pretty" is important. It can add to usability, number of users (since people ARE visual), and generally make for an overall better and more intuitive experience.
I take it you've never worked with an industrial or user interface designer before? My apologies if you have or if we're on the same team here and I've missed your point.
Forest for the trees here? Good old days argument? Eh, not sure, but here are a few points to add to the discussion:
1) Interface/Shiny matters. Why in heavens name do you think Apple has done so well? They provide a pretty good, pretty good looking interface for their products and can even charge big bucks for it. Now we can argue that websites aren't adding to pragmatic interface design or even that good looking (though I tend to think so) these days but I'd argue they at least have more options in terms of interface presentation for an idea, so if they're bad they can be made better. That takes bandwidth. Which brings me to (somewhat tangentially)...
2) Sites are offering content that's actually useful, and they *need* special graphics/interface flexibility to present those in a coherent manner. I *like* seeing a video from Tim Schafer about his new game. It's *helpful* seeing a video of a project or mockup and interacting with the creator(s). I can do better business this way with clients, too. Heck, it's what the internet said it wanted to be in 1997! Video and helpful interfaces, all the time, instantly. Now that we're there the telcos have their pants down? Bullshit. They milked this thing for profits, and if it crashes someone gets burned at the stake (hopefully).
3) To your comment, taking *away* something from millions/billions of people isn't going to happen unless there's a huge catastrophe. People like their "look and feel." Even if it comes time to downsize content or code/usability each website will look at the other and say "You first, sir." until they're blue in the face. They don't want to lower the quality (and I'm sort of assuming a definition of quality that fits my argument here, sorry) of their content and give the others an edge.
4) *Adding* to a system is much more pragmatic. People like that. Adding infrastructure and capacity is a far more palatable solution; it's easy to sell to people, "Look, you get more for your money"
finally, if i've totally missed the mark and your argument is that things like AJAX are inferior to, say, HTML5, then I would say that I'm not technically qualified to judge which is "better". The stock answer might be that there should be competition to see which wins out, but that might not always be best, which is also considering that the problem is the code sites are built with and not all the content they're offering.
I know there must be better FBI Agents out there, but I once knew a couple. They were the most paranoid, scary people I've met. Guy had to have a gun everywhere he went, wouldn't give out his address (even though I was invited to his house) and I was accused of lying to him because,"We're trained to detect that kind of thing."
Family members who are in the military or are police officers warned me to get the hell away from them, which I did.
I don't know, maybe they SHOULD refine their techniques. Jesus, if they had a good way of actually getting information, instead of just insane, paranoid speculation it might help. Then again, maybe they'd just stay insecure and paranoid...
As soon as I read "we live in the real world" it seemed obvious that this man is deluded and maybe even dangerous.
We ALL live in the real world. What happens when I don't choose to book face? I don't use twitter. By his logic I should be exempt from all this. I could so far as to say I should be able to sue the City of Chicago for their "Righteous Shield" surveillance network (or whatever the hell it's called) because I do not make my whereabouts known. No gps, no data plan, i "like" something on FB occasionally but that's it, and no twitter.
THESE types of men, who think they know what's best for everyone, are the danger. They don't do anything at all when they're in a position of power to help or provide commentary, just sit back and act smug, and on a whim they say "Sorry, you brought this on yourself."
It's disingenuous, and I find it disturbingly common in people who have little or no oversight on their position of power.
But to those people, they don't care! Don't you get it? Just like YOU probably don't care (and I'm making an assumption here so forgive me) about the latest LGBT Play downtown, or advances in ikebana, or how to knit a scarf, those people DON'T CARE about the science bits you mentioned. It doesn't apply to them (that they see), it doesn't benefit them nor affect them.
THAT is why we have this SAME stupid "debate" (read: rant) on/. over and over and over: We need a nation that employs enough people who see these concepts as useful. People need to have a basic, emotional connection to why these ideas are useful. If they don't they won't care, they'll swallow up any old thing that comes along which makes a bit of sense and makes them feel good somehow.
If the media doesn't report it, then how do we see they're doing it? Also, citations please.
Who, precisely, are these "liberal elites"? They certainly don't speak for me, just like I'll bet a lot of the "conservative" talking heads don't speak for a lot of conservatives.
Remember: It's only entertainment. They're keeping you entertained while they make off with your future. We should be working together to unseat ALL these nutbags. Turn off the TV, start thinking, and let's get to work!
Agreed. I'll add to the industrial growth one: My understanding is that those tankers which can ship Manhattan Island to Japan for a buck fifty cause an incredible amount of pollution, dwarfing any tiny changes Americans might make to driving habits.
Look, this is all about CONSUMERISM. They keep feeding people the classic sales pitch: Here's the problem and we have a hip, shiny new solution for you! The solution doesn't actually fix anything, so the companies can continue to profit by selling a new model in a few years.
Come to comment that POTS isn't dead. Know why? Telcos that have terrible internet and cell service.
I have a cell and skype, and in an affluent neighborhood north of downtown chicago my skype drops regularly and my cell service is abominable. I can't stay in touch with clients reliably and it is INFURIATING. This is 2012! Argh!
POTS is not dead and won't be until infrastructure can reliably replace it (with power outages, it never will imo), and wtf is it with the advert?
Seriously, while other people were all ok with the guy he and his cronies were putting people and policies in place to cause this kind of madness for years to come.
I have a friend who was arrested and thrown in jail for a snafu similar to this BS. Perfectly intelligent, reasonable guy. Some officer had a bug up his ass, and my friend got thrown in jail in the middle-of-nowhere Ohio.
Also, see "Occupy Movement Arrests" for officers hauling people away who are peacefully demonstrating, released without charge later on.
I'm so sick of you lazy assholes. Say that since someone didn't hand you scientifically proven evidence on a platter that it doesn't exist. It's a form of denial, and it's intellectual laziness of the highest order.
or, google "private prison incentive". First link is to the economist, and there are all sorts of others. Did you know that prison labor makes those nifty little cardboard coffee holders for Starbucks? No? Well they do. It may be fair trade coffee, but not fair trade anything else.
Some prisons have simply become privatized labor camps, slave labor. It's a way to sweep slavery under the carpet, like with immigration: Call people morally corrupt and other people can justify almost any horror done to that class of people. This justification makes me sick, and you people who aren't willing to wake the fuck up are a part of the problem.
Is it probable, or even sane, to go and post here saying that I may not have completely thought through my post before putting it there, and that perhaps it doesn't deserve a +5? On the other hand, if I *had* thought it through, and thought some more, and some more, it is likely that no post would have occurred...
For the record, I'm in agreement with the people who replied, and the mild sarcasm/ribbing is also noted. So, I'm sorry for posting, but not completely if that makes sense. To answer the first question.... let me hit this button and see if slashdot explodes my browser...
Why is it that this entire thread has been riddled with "Santorum" comments, yet only a couple people seem to have wanted to start any sort of informed discussion about this issue?
Sure, Americans DID go back to bed after the BP disaster (to quote another/.'er) but this disaster is still the reason I think twice before eating shrimp in the U.S. It's an environmental disaster of epic proportions, and we've just let it ride.... even on Slashdot? I remember reading article after article, the outrage and hope that big oil would finally get it's comeuppance... and now nothing?
Also, if any of you people are paid to troll this thread with nonsense (and I know someone in marketing who says this is more likely than you might think), then shame on you.
Slashdot Mirror
No, you should you get YOUR head into the 21st Century.
The NSA is like a doctor handing out medications to a patient with chronic illnesses. He's trying to treat the issue after the fact.
A better way to handle it might be,"Why would people WANT to commit acts X,Y & Z? Maybe government policy should reflect trying to fix the cause and not just the symptoms."
The NSA is doing what EVERYONE does: They're justifying their paycheck/actions. Building huge infrastructure assures that they feel as though what they're doing is legitimate, and they have the excuse to keep doing big projects and getting fat paychecks for years. After all, if the NSA doesn't monitor everyone who will? Well that's a false argument. NO ONE should be.
Getting to the cause of these issues, like meddling in foreign affairs that we shouldn't be, ought to be the focus. Not justification for practices that don't actually make us safer. You knwo what will happen? People will go back to using code, and meeting in person. They'll go low tech, and when they attack it will totally catch the NSA off guard. They'll wonder how they missed it, and will try to treat the symptoms again rather than the cause, further eroding what few rights we have left.
Just for those of us who don't play all the new shiny games that come out, or who have professions that keep us pretty shackled to work, or who are just plain ignorant, could the summary PLEASE SPELL OUT wtf DOTA is? It's sounds really stupid when I say it in my head or out loud, like "Dote" only said in a baby's voice. Doesn't make me want to play it.
rest of the discussion is great, but please please please provide enough information for people to know what the heck is going on, submitters?
Let's see...... what issues do many political parties seem to have these days? Oh yeah! They one that gets people riled up to elect them.
That's not a stance, that's a sales pitch. I can't vote for a pirate party here (in the U.S..... hmmm... maybe someone could start one?) but I can say that deciding NOT to have a stance seems just fine to me. If foreign policy isn't their strong suit, so be it. They're representing good policies that matter.
Please define "section 1131(a) or 30166 of title 49, United States Code"
That's the an important, ambiguous part as I see it printed. "Investigation or inspection" could EASILY mean that a VIPR team or police officer can stop you and check your data log whenever they want. You know that NDAA thing? I would assume it allows pretty easy circumvention of this law via that little clause in 2.c, but maybe I'm being overly worried.
I'm sure the insurance industry will be HAPPY to look at those medical records which CONVENIENTLY have your shiny new black box information attached to them under 2.d
Look, I know there are some good arguments for having something like this, but for heaven's sake the entire idea of being tracked like this is super creepy. What happens when someone gets a hold of this data? What happens if the data is hacked in some way, or tampered with? What if someone maliciously tampers with this, how do you prove that it wasn't you who did it? What will the insurance and legal ramifications be? Lawyers are going to LOVE these little boxes.
Then we better not quit either.
Let's get out there and keep at it!
Oh, and just to be clear, I don't have kids. I'm not terribly keen on having kids either, but it could still happen. My arguments are similar to the GPP: It's really important to understand what in the hell you're getting into. Even then, I know that nothing can prepare someone for becoming a parent. Shit, look what happened to Bill Cosby :P
This. Contractors should have the same standards as Certified Engineers. If it breaks before they say it's supposed to, make them liable to fix it. Right now it's like a company selling you a product that says it can do certain things, but when you get it home it doesn't do what they told you. It's criminal.
Sounds like a ripe opportunity for some good developers to write lean, mean code that gets back to basics and provides blazing-fast speed on modern machines, making the current guys look like buffons.
It's all a pendulum, the way I see it. We're back to the "Assembly" days in a way. Going back to basics, or building systems/code that can take current code and optimize it automatically for that, is probably a HUGE money vault just waiting for someone to open, if your idea is correct (which I fully admit it could be)
OTOH, those languages allow people to write programs that work all over the place. They standardize, making the time spent by a coder more efficient since they don't have to write for multiple platforms. Whether that's a net benefit in the grand scheme seems like it might be subjective, but if it were possible to break down into cost/benefit (hours/efficiency so people could go home at 4 on Friday instead of working into Saturday for instance) then I'm at least a rough guesstimate/discussion.
In terms of the internet pipes, I think people will innovate as resources (bandwidth) tightens. The internet is how we do business, and at some point people might get fed up with telcos and just start building their own local networks and caching the content like the BBS's of old. Mesh networks or public wifi with content hosted on a cluster of servers in someone's apartment, or long distance wifi, or microwave, I don't know.
Personally, I think those sorts of things would be a HUGE boon to telcos: Allow neighborhoods, towns, or even cities to own their own networks and host content, allowing citizens/local government to alter their systems as necessary to accommodate traffic. Heck, it could be a draw for some cities that they a great network.
I'll try a non-car analogy: It's like the federal vs state government. Right now we have what is effectively a dictatorship run by 3 big fat greasy bastards. It's too much for them to actually handle, but they like the income. Make it more like the U.S. government (just stick with me) and have a "federal" i.e. national set of carriers (or even federally owned/mandated) like the utility companies, and then have a state and local level for the infrastructure as well, perhaps. It could be more flexible, perhaps, and expand/contract as necessary.
There may be a crunch, but the inefficiencies in the system are rampant because we've been long on providing "resources" to the beast without overseeing a good system manage those resources. The internet will go on a diet, get leaner and meaner and more efficient, and it will be better than ever.
"Pretty" is important. It can add to usability, number of users (since people ARE visual), and generally make for an overall better and more intuitive experience.
I take it you've never worked with an industrial or user interface designer before? My apologies if you have or if we're on the same team here and I've missed your point.
Forest for the trees here? Good old days argument? Eh, not sure, but here are a few points to add to the discussion:
1) Interface/Shiny matters. Why in heavens name do you think Apple has done so well? They provide a pretty good, pretty good looking interface for their products and can even charge big bucks for it. Now we can argue that websites aren't adding to pragmatic interface design or even that good looking (though I tend to think so) these days but I'd argue they at least have more options in terms of interface presentation for an idea, so if they're bad they can be made better. That takes bandwidth. Which brings me to (somewhat tangentially)...
2) Sites are offering content that's actually useful, and they *need* special graphics/interface flexibility to present those in a coherent manner. I *like* seeing a video from Tim Schafer about his new game. It's *helpful* seeing a video of a project or mockup and interacting with the creator(s). I can do better business this way with clients, too.
Heck, it's what the internet said it wanted to be in 1997! Video and helpful interfaces, all the time, instantly. Now that we're there the telcos have their pants down? Bullshit. They milked this thing for profits, and if it crashes someone gets burned at the stake (hopefully).
3) To your comment, taking *away* something from millions/billions of people isn't going to happen unless there's a huge catastrophe. People like their "look and feel." Even if it comes time to downsize content or code/usability each website will look at the other and say "You first, sir." until they're blue in the face. They don't want to lower the quality (and I'm sort of assuming a definition of quality that fits my argument here, sorry) of their content and give the others an edge.
4) *Adding* to a system is much more pragmatic. People like that. Adding infrastructure and capacity is a far more palatable solution; it's easy to sell to people, "Look, you get more for your money"
finally, if i've totally missed the mark and your argument is that things like AJAX are inferior to, say, HTML5, then I would say that I'm not technically qualified to judge which is "better". The stock answer might be that there should be competition to see which wins out, but that might not always be best, which is also considering that the problem is the code sites are built with and not all the content they're offering.
I know there must be better FBI Agents out there, but I once knew a couple. They were the most paranoid, scary people I've met. Guy had to have a gun everywhere he went, wouldn't give out his address (even though I was invited to his house) and I was accused of lying to him because,"We're trained to detect that kind of thing."
Family members who are in the military or are police officers warned me to get the hell away from them, which I did.
I don't know, maybe they SHOULD refine their techniques. Jesus, if they had a good way of actually getting information, instead of just insane, paranoid speculation it might help.
Then again, maybe they'd just stay insecure and paranoid...
As soon as I read "we live in the real world" it seemed obvious that this man is deluded and maybe even dangerous.
We ALL live in the real world. What happens when I don't choose to book face? I don't use twitter. By his logic I should be exempt from all this. I could so far as to say I should be able to sue the City of Chicago for their "Righteous Shield" surveillance network (or whatever the hell it's called) because I do not make my whereabouts known. No gps, no data plan, i "like" something on FB occasionally but that's it, and no twitter.
THESE types of men, who think they know what's best for everyone, are the danger. They don't do anything at all when they're in a position of power to help or provide commentary, just sit back and act smug, and on a whim they say "Sorry, you brought this on yourself."
It's disingenuous, and I find it disturbingly common in people who have little or no oversight on their position of power.
But to those people, they don't care! Don't you get it? Just like YOU probably don't care (and I'm making an assumption here so forgive me) about the latest LGBT Play downtown, or advances in ikebana, or how to knit a scarf, those people DON'T CARE about the science bits you mentioned. It doesn't apply to them (that they see), it doesn't benefit them nor affect them.
THAT is why we have this SAME stupid "debate" (read: rant) on /. over and over and over: We need a nation that employs enough people who see these concepts as useful. People need to have a basic, emotional connection to why these ideas are useful. If they don't they won't care, they'll swallow up any old thing that comes along which makes a bit of sense and makes them feel good somehow.
So are you saying that Americans are being fed the lie of "unfree countries" so that they won't leave? So that Americans think they are somehow free?
More propaganda.... it's what I think now when I see American flags at businesses around the area.....
If the media doesn't report it, then how do we see they're doing it?
Also, citations please.
Who, precisely, are these "liberal elites"? They certainly don't speak for me, just like I'll bet a lot of the "conservative" talking heads don't speak for a lot of conservatives.
Remember: It's only entertainment. They're keeping you entertained while they make off with your future. We should be working together to unseat ALL these nutbags.
Turn off the TV, start thinking, and let's get to work!
Citations, please?
Agreed. I'll add to the industrial growth one: My understanding is that those tankers which can ship Manhattan Island to Japan for a buck fifty cause an incredible amount of pollution, dwarfing any tiny changes Americans might make to driving habits.
Look, this is all about CONSUMERISM. They keep feeding people the classic sales pitch: Here's the problem and we have a hip, shiny new solution for you! The solution doesn't actually fix anything, so the companies can continue to profit by selling a new model in a few years.
Wake up, people.
Come to comment that POTS isn't dead. Know why? Telcos that have terrible internet and cell service.
I have a cell and skype, and in an affluent neighborhood north of downtown chicago my skype drops regularly and my cell service is abominable. I can't stay in touch with clients reliably and it is INFURIATING. This is 2012! Argh!
POTS is not dead and won't be until infrastructure can reliably replace it (with power outages, it never will imo), and wtf is it with the advert?
Bush II: The Rapening.
Seriously, while other people were all ok with the guy he and his cronies were putting people and policies in place to cause this kind of madness for years to come.
This didn't sneak up on us at all.
Do you have ANY experience?
I have a friend who was arrested and thrown in jail for a snafu similar to this BS. Perfectly intelligent, reasonable guy. Some officer had a bug up his ass, and my friend got thrown in jail in the middle-of-nowhere Ohio.
Also, see "Occupy Movement Arrests" for officers hauling people away who are peacefully demonstrating, released without charge later on.
This is fully what I intend to do if I'm ever forced to fly again, opting for the pat-down.
Are you serious?
How about you not be lazy and google it, bozo?
I'm so sick of you lazy assholes. Say that since someone didn't hand you scientifically proven evidence on a platter that it doesn't exist. It's a form of denial, and it's intellectual laziness of the highest order.
https://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=private+prison+incentives&oq=private+prison+incentives&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=igoogle.3...8144l10809l0l11048l25l25l0l11l11l1l147l1241l9j5l14l0.
or, google "private prison incentive". First link is to the economist, and there are all sorts of others. Did you know that prison labor makes those nifty little cardboard coffee holders for Starbucks? No? Well they do. It may be fair trade coffee, but not fair trade anything else.
Some prisons have simply become privatized labor camps, slave labor. It's a way to sweep slavery under the carpet, like with immigration: Call people morally corrupt and other people can justify almost any horror done to that class of people.
This justification makes me sick, and you people who aren't willing to wake the fuck up are a part of the problem.
Is it probable, or even sane, to go and post here saying that I may not have completely thought through my post before putting it there, and that perhaps it doesn't deserve a +5?
On the other hand, if I *had* thought it through, and thought some more, and some more, it is likely that no post would have occurred...
For the record, I'm in agreement with the people who replied, and the mild sarcasm/ribbing is also noted.
So, I'm sorry for posting, but not completely if that makes sense.
To answer the first question.... let me hit this button and see if slashdot explodes my browser...
Why is it that this entire thread has been riddled with "Santorum" comments, yet only a couple people seem to have wanted to start any sort of informed discussion about this issue?
Sure, Americans DID go back to bed after the BP disaster (to quote another /.'er) but this disaster is still the reason I think twice before eating shrimp in the U.S. It's an environmental disaster of epic proportions, and we've just let it ride.... even on Slashdot? I remember reading article after article, the outrage and hope that big oil would finally get it's comeuppance... and now nothing?
Also, if any of you people are paid to troll this thread with nonsense (and I know someone in marketing who says this is more likely than you might think), then shame on you.
... let them sit like industrial relics for 20 to 60 years or even longer while the owners retire and die so they don't bear any responsibility.
Accrue interest? That's an excuse so think it's basically a lie. They won't EVER accrue enough interest, those monies will lose out to inflation.
These people should be taken to court and jailed, or the companies heavily fined.