their argument to patent software linked to technological devices: technological innovations should not cease to be patentable merely because the innovation lies in software."
but their problem: how to define the boundary determining when software is, and is not, part of a technological innovation
yes difficult to define if the software is part of a technological innovation where the innovation lies in the software!!!
"that Open Source software is threatened by the existing extent of patentability"
The argument was NOT that patents HAD been used against free software but COULD be and WOULD be used by companies which ( which not who, not a natural being) are known to use whatever means they can.
Therefore the use of the word threatened and not attacked
and podbots and goldeneye or action mods work well
and remember that the number one reason for "HL on linux failure" is mesa librairies conflicting with newer librairies.
Re:i hate those kde/gnome flamewars
on
KDE 2.1 Is Out
·
· Score: 1
I wasn t saying that . maybe I did, but unintentionnally through my bad english.
eazel itself is not to gnome , what ximian is.
it just stroke me that , really important companies to each projects , each one in its one way, are facing problems of the same order at the same time. "of the same order", but not the same problems though.
the kompany is important to kde as they contribute to many important projects and pay many developpers to do so.
the kompany is also important to kde as it is a software kompany wich try to make a living selling qt and kde based software.
to go back to your post, i see a big parallel between the kompany and eazel, could you explain furthermore what is that make you say they re so different ?
i hate those kde/gnome flamewars
on
KDE 2.1 Is Out
·
· Score: 1
i never could get into one.
i didn t use kde1 because it did crash my pc every session. i had not time to look for what was doing it nor for going into a "kde sucks" thing.
so i used gnome a lot. i found it ugly but it worked well. i also used enlightenment alone a lot.
then kde 2. it is just wonderfull. simply wonderfull. there are a few bugs but,with every compilationfrom cvs , i saw one or another leaving the scene on a daily basis.
their developpment rate is incredible. and they release good stuff!!
mozilla is still better than khtml but too heavy. i fire it only when i know konqueror won t do the stuff.
but i don t find myself going into a "kde rules" frenzy.
and i m sure gnome2 will be great when it s ready.
but there are discussions i lack which should happen here, on slashdot:
-in the kde world, the kompany is doing a great deal of fast and efficient work for the kde project. but at the same time it s releasing closed source programms in order to finance itself. In particular, they plan to release an outlook killer, keeping the server side closed.Also they are really sincere about giving to the community, just finding a way to fund themselves.
-in the gnome world, there seems to be a lot of effort put into tunnelling apps into the user desktop and deals between those entities: eazel, ximian and red hat . a lot of marketing...which is, as we all know it, the real evil behind m$
the analogy between the difficulties that compagnies related to those projects face stroke me more than the differences.
I m sure such matters should be discussed here more often than , say, lego stories as there are plenty of solutions which could come from here to help all of them.
today's dialogue with a 9 years old:
(i installed him zindows for the games ):
"my computer stopped !! why???"
"it s windows! it s usual for it to crash, you know already, don t you ?"
"yes but i wasn t even using it!!! it just stopped !!! "
"well it s windows!!!"
" i don t care as long as i ve got my games"
" well wait till you lose all your savegames"
" i ll make floppies"
ok he won t save his datas. they never do until 2 or 3 times. then he will be pissed.then he will change. but till then, he wants his games.
he s the future.
linux need games. free software needs games to go on the desktops. there is no choice once you want it to go on the desktops.
yes please, rant again!!!
At least french laws about dvd are the extension of already existing laws passed to protect a way of expression...
They we re not pushed by the movie theater lobby, who are into tv and video anyway, but pushed by the directors who , here in france, happen to have more power than producers...yet
So yes, go in your "public" library and watch unexistant offensive-speech-blocking software but real censorware !!!
No more Dick Cheney and Bible in the US libraries!!!
Yes mock french laws again ! Please!!! I can use another good laugh !!!
before: which country do you come from ?
after: which corpo do you live for ?
Don't you feel someone has read too many gibson's novells ???
If that hell becomes reality, will he be seen as the Jules Vernes of the 21th century?
"Power, in Case's world, meant corporate power. The zaibatsus, the multinationals that shaped the course of human history, had
transcended old barriers. Viewed as organisms, they had attained a kind of immortality. You couldn't kill a zaibatsu by
assassinating a dozen key executives; there were others waiting to step up the ladder, assume the vacated position, access the vast
banks of corporate memory."
Jules Vernes described a world where science helped men to free themselves, not to build new ways of stealing freedom from each others.
ie 55 was released on win98 and not on NT because of unacceptable bugs... yet it was released on 98...
same situation than the one discribed by the article.
They both don t care about bugs. They both don t care about consumers , as long as they are caught, they only care about being first.
Which i don t care, because those bugs are fixed and won t be in mozilla (or any gekko using browser) which I will use.
And there is also konqueror, which I will use also.
And there is still lynx, which is the fastest.
well in french minable means loser so I was surprised everyone could use it to make a joke in the USA.
Maybe it was some kind of subliminal statement revealing a lack of self esteem expressed in a "beautyfull" language ??
I have been a passionate Mandrake user for a long time so I know a bit more about what it is to be one and to be a pissed off one.
I read:
"Retail and Download Differences
Linux-Mandrake 7.2 - Retail and Download differences
by Frederic Bastok, Mandrakesoft co-founder - October 31 2000 "
at
http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/pr-kde2.php3
"All things below is related to both the European and American market. "."This represent a large part of our sales"."we need to sell products"."Those constraints and manufacturing delays forced us to be ready to send the Cd in duplication mid-October".
Apparently from what i read from users, there are many problems that lead me to think you were not ready but shipped something anyway.
well there was bugs in other mandrake releases but there was'nt this kind of "The "RC1" was idea of our marketing" things.
One of the most important thing that made me switch to linux: "it will be ready when it's finished". In other terms, no marketing drones will be there to make me swallow an unfinished product.
By the way, i don't have a T1 to be able to download all kinds of rpms to have a complete distro after i bought an incomplete one.
By the way, i was going to buy the power pack because i need one of those huge program wich is in it, and i can t download it.
By the way, i almost bought suse because it's inside but i thought, "no let s stick with mandrake... and they will have kde2 final"
newsreader was already in windows version of opera. email reader is one of the new feature of the 4.0 i guess they will at some time do the same with the linux port..
What was wrong with french revolution? It didn t put an end to slavery after the human right universal declaration. For commercial reasons. Such bad decisions are costly.
first it puts the echelon discussion at a higher level.(It's always good to tell a friend to stop looking under your lady's dress.)and echelon is something that, if it exists , we can't compete with.[Anyway , when it comes to intelligence , there are two leading countries, US and UK...well for this kind of intelligence anyway. Remember enigma...]
second there are a lot of undergoing negociations about trade with this world commerce thing. And everybody is playing dirty one after the other (are our cheeses so dangerous for your country ?Just avoid to lit a match near one and there won't be any problem!)
third it tells UK to be a little more on the europe side and a little less on the US side wich has always been their weakness.Being on the europe side doesn t mean you re against USA..
fourth there has always been problems with the US in the plane commerce.US never played fair in that field.(remember the concorde plane. too noisy !!! that was so funny!!).The only positive point I see in the US way to trade is that they re playing as dirty with yourself as with the others.(cf intel attacks via to harm amd)
fifth airbus is a true commercial success , which is good, a true technical success,wich is even better, and a trully european project , which was a miracle that changed our way to see things."So , it's possible to actually work together!!!!". Therefore it needs to be protected at government level. my 2 francs
Maybe because i m not a hacker neither living in the US (french), i remember that the whole "free-open source" thing began with the complications that us laws put coders in: to reinvent the wheel perpetually because of copyrights - patents - licenses -whatever you name it. linux and windows came out of this situation , on both side of the problem. (one illegally using the system to control a market but a certain lawsuit is supposed to take care of that ) The reel problem is laws , and can find a solution in courts...(elsewhere ?) Therefore if a foreign court starts to say certain behaviors are unacceptable, it s a step in this direction. you all agree that your patent system isn t in touch with reality anymore, what do you do against that ? Is Coding great free open sourced software the only solution ? It s the DOJ that take care of ms illegal behavior but it s laws that permit it to become what it is now. Will a real solution come from the doj ? From common good sense , i m sure that a COMPANY is NOT a NATURAL BEEING . Can your legal system look back and change mistakes it made ? Has it ever happened ? It seems to me, but beeing foreigner to the USA i m certainly misinterpreting the whole thing, that the whole of the US trade laws tends to create monopolies then the doj comes to reestablish federal power over it . The move from the europeen court of justice is to act BEFORE such a monopoly exist. Can you see that if you trully suffer from monopolies and such , you need such laws and courts to enforce them ? Won t that hurt the way you imagine what liberty is ?But Wouldn t it be stupid to prevent , in the name of liberty, such laws to exist if they are the only way to protect your freedom? Between the freedom of companies and the freedom of individuals,i trully follow the choice that has been done long ago by the people who did the french revolution. Humans matter , not $.
remi
PS if some of you think that french men hate americans, they re untrue. You saving our asses will never be forgotten (i m sure many kosovars feel the same). But we re very critical toward those we love , especially when they re caught in deep contradictions . The fact is that the people we re the most critical toward is... french people;) by the way , we could use you doj against some of our old state monopolies to break them apart... could we hire it ?
wich country is it illegal in ? besides USA ? i read they decypherd it because a key wasn t crypted...is that reverse engeenering ??? excuse me , i know nothing...
hello , I m writing this question from france where we re trying to have a law voted that would ban proprietary software. This situation shows that one country's laws are already affecting others, therefore i'm very interrested in your legal system. The anti trust laws of your country seems a marvel to me since , as a customer, we often suffer from monopolies in France...Yet , it seems you suffer even more from private compagnies that become monopolies... That leads to my question:How come there is no legal feedback after such trials? Since there are laws in your country that permits companies to become trust (i mean badly designed laws or unadequate laws (old ones)),why isn't there also a legal Funding of Facts saying "well we also did some wrong since this part of this law permited them to become a monopoly"??? For example your patents laws seem to cause a lot of trouble...are you going to wait until damage is done before you tune them ??? Isn't it possible in your country to change laws BEFORE any harm is done ??(that doesn't mean it's possible in mine:) naive question i know thanks for your time given
Slashdot Mirror
their argument to patent software linked to technological devices: :
technological innovations should not cease to be patentable merely because the innovation lies in software."
but their problem
how to define the boundary determining when software is, and is not, part of a technological innovation
yes difficult to define if the software is part of a technological innovation where the innovation lies in the software!!!
"that Open Source software is threatened by the existing extent of patentability"
The argument was NOT that patents HAD been used against free software but COULD be and WOULD be used by companies which ( which not who, not a natural being) are known to use whatever means they can.
Therefore the use of the word threatened and not attacked
and podbots and goldeneye or action mods work well
and remember that the number one reason for "HL on linux failure" is mesa librairies conflicting with newer librairies.
I wasn t saying that . maybe I did, but unintentionnally through my bad english.
eazel itself is not to gnome , what ximian is.
it just stroke me that , really important companies to each projects , each one in its one way, are facing problems of the same order at the same time. "of the same order", but not the same problems though.
the kompany is important to kde as they contribute to many important projects and pay many developpers to do so.
the kompany is also important to kde as it is a software kompany wich try to make a living selling qt and kde based software.
to go back to your post, i see a big parallel between the kompany and eazel, could you explain furthermore what is that make you say they re so different ?
i never could get into one. . ,with every compilationfrom cvs , i saw one or another leaving the scene on a daily basis. ...which is, as we all know it, the real evil behind m$ .
i didn t use kde1 because it did crash my pc every session. i had not time to look for what was doing it nor for going into a "kde sucks" thing. so i used gnome a lot. i found it ugly but it worked well. i also used enlightenment alone a lot
then kde 2. it is just wonderfull. simply wonderfull. there are a few bugs but
their developpment rate is incredible. and they release good stuff!!
mozilla is still better than khtml but too heavy. i fire it only when i know konqueror won t do the stuff.
but i don t find myself going into a "kde rules" frenzy.
and i m sure gnome2 will be great when it s ready.
but there are discussions i lack which should happen here, on slashdot:
-in the kde world, the kompany is doing a great deal of fast and efficient work for the kde project. but at the same time it s releasing closed source programms in order to finance itself. In particular, they plan to release an outlook killer, keeping the server side closed.Also they are really sincere about giving to the community, just finding a way to fund themselves.
-in the gnome world, there seems to be a lot of effort put into tunnelling apps into the user desktop and deals between those entities: eazel, ximian and red hat . a lot of marketing
the analogy between the difficulties that compagnies related to those projects face stroke me more than the differences
I m sure such matters should be discussed here more often than , say, lego stories as there are plenty of solutions which could come from here to help all of them.
today's dialogue with a 9 years old:
(i installed him zindows for the games ):
"my computer stopped !! why???"
"it s windows! it s usual for it to crash, you know already, don t you ?"
"yes but i wasn t even using it!!! it just stopped !!! "
"well it s windows!!!"
" i don t care as long as i ve got my games"
" well wait till you lose all your savegames"
" i ll make floppies"
ok he won t save his datas. they never do until 2 or 3 times. then he will be pissed.then he will change. but till then, he wants his games. he s the future.
linux need games. free software needs games to go on the desktops. there is no choice once you want it to go on the desktops.
would be a nice vsb mailworm which used exchange rich features also, like cancelling or sending meeting notices, not just mails ...
I think your post was completly ON topic and relevant.
A discussion about those problems cannot be bound to technologie .
yes please, rant again!!! At least french laws about dvd are the extension of already existing laws passed to protect a way of expression ...
They we re not pushed by the movie theater lobby, who are into tv and video anyway, but pushed by the directors who , here in france, happen to have more power than producers...yet
So yes, go in your "public" library and watch unexistant offensive-speech-blocking software but real censorware !!!
No more Dick Cheney and Bible in the US libraries!!!
Yes mock french laws again ! Please!!! I can use another good laugh !!!
isn t it somewhere in the samba project ? in the how to ?
before: which country do you come from ?
after: which corpo do you live for ?
Don't you feel someone has read too many gibson's novells ???
If that hell becomes reality, will he be seen as the Jules Vernes of the 21th century?
"Power, in Case's world, meant corporate power. The zaibatsus, the multinationals that shaped the course of human history, had transcended old barriers. Viewed as organisms, they had attained a kind of immortality. You couldn't kill a zaibatsu by assassinating a dozen key executives; there were others waiting to step up the ladder, assume the vacated position, access the vast banks of corporate memory."
Jules Vernes described a world where science helped men to free themselves, not to build new ways of stealing freedom from each others.
ie 55 was released on win98 and not on NT because of unacceptable bugs ... yet it was released on 98...
same situation than the one discribed by the article.
They both don t care about bugs. They both don t care about consumers , as long as they are caught, they only care about being first.
Which i don t care, because those bugs are fixed and won t be in mozilla (or any gekko using browser) which I will use.
And there is also konqueror, which I will use also.
And there is still lynx, which is the fastest.
well in french minable means loser so I was surprised everyone could use it to make a joke in the USA.
Maybe it was some kind of subliminal statement revealing a lack of self esteem expressed in a "beautyfull" language ??
I have been a passionate Mandrake user for a long time so I know a bit more about what it is to be one and to be a pissed off one. . ... and they will have kde2 final"
I read:
"Retail and Download Differences
Linux-Mandrake 7.2 - Retail and Download differences
by Frederic Bastok, Mandrakesoft co-founder - October 31 2000 "
at
http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/pr-kde2.php3
"All things below is related to both the European and American market. "."This represent a large part of our sales"."we need to sell products"."Those constraints and manufacturing delays forced us to be ready to send the Cd in duplication mid-October".
Apparently from what i read from users, there are many problems that lead me to think you were not ready but shipped something anyway.
well there was bugs in other mandrake releases but there was'nt this kind of "The "RC1" was idea of our marketing" things.
One of the most important thing that made me switch to linux: "it will be ready when it's finished". In other terms, no marketing drones will be there to make me swallow an unfinished product
By the way, i don't have a T1 to be able to download all kinds of rpms to have a complete distro after i bought an incomplete one.
By the way, i was going to buy the power pack because i need one of those huge program wich is in it, and i can t download it.
By the way, i almost bought suse because it's inside but i thought, "no let s stick with mandrake
jamais.
... biting each other ????
...they lick each other's asses...
Do they lick their wounds???
-no!
newsreader was already in windows version of opera.
email reader is one of the new feature of the 4.0
i guess they will at some time do the same with the linux port..
This froggy salutes USA. Yes, we sure did a good job by giving this 400 blows. and you forgot french kissing...
What was wrong with french revolution?
It didn t put an end to slavery after the human right universal declaration.
For commercial reasons.
Such bad decisions are costly.
first it puts the echelon discussion at a higher level .(It's always good to tell a friend to stop looking under your lady's dress.)and echelon is something that, if it exists , we can't compete with.[Anyway , when it comes to intelligence , there are two leading countries, US and UK...well for this kind of intelligence anyway. Remember enigma...]
..
second there are a lot of undergoing negociations about trade with this world commerce thing. And everybody is playing dirty one after the other (are our cheeses so dangerous for your country ?Just avoid to lit a match near one and there won't be any problem!)
third it tells UK to be a little more on the europe side and a little less on the US side wich has always been their weakness.Being on the europe side doesn t mean you re against USA
fourth there has always been problems with the US in the plane commerce.US never played fair in that field.(remember the concorde plane. too noisy !!! that was so funny!!).The only positive point I see in the US way to trade is that they re playing as dirty with yourself as with the others.(cf intel attacks via to harm amd)
fifth airbus is a true commercial success , which is good, a true technical success,wich is even better, and a trully european project , which was a miracle that changed our way to see things."So , it's possible to actually work together!!!!".
Therefore it needs to be protected at government level.
my 2 francs
that s right but we judged him when we find out. and we never elected a senile movie star as president, so we re not that crazy yet .
Maybe because i m not a hacker neither living in the US (french), i remember that the whole "free-open source" thing began with the complications that us laws put coders in: to reinvent the wheel perpetually because of copyrights - patents - licenses -whatever you name it. ,i trully follow the choice that has been done long ago by the people who did the french revolution. Humans matter , not $.
... french people ;) ...
linux and windows came out of this situation , on both side of the problem. (one illegally using the system to control a market but a certain lawsuit is supposed to take care of that )
The reel problem is laws , and can find a solution in courts...(elsewhere ?)
Therefore if a foreign court starts to say certain behaviors are unacceptable, it s a step in this direction.
you all agree that your patent system isn t in touch with reality anymore, what do you do against that ?
Is Coding great free open sourced software the only solution ?
It s the DOJ that take care of ms illegal behavior but it s laws that permit it to become what it is now.
Will a real solution come from the doj ?
From common good sense , i m sure that a COMPANY is NOT a NATURAL BEEING .
Can your legal system look back and change mistakes it made ? Has it ever happened ?
It seems to me, but beeing foreigner to the USA i m certainly misinterpreting the whole thing, that the whole of the US trade laws tends to create monopolies then the doj comes to reestablish federal power over it .
The move from the europeen court of justice is to act BEFORE such a monopoly exist.
Can you see that if you trully suffer from monopolies and such , you need such laws and courts to enforce them ? Won t that hurt the way you imagine what liberty is ?But Wouldn t it be stupid to prevent , in the name of liberty, such laws to exist if they are the only way to protect your freedom?
Between the freedom of companies and the freedom of individuals
remi
PS if some of you think that french men hate americans, they re untrue. You saving our asses will never be forgotten (i m sure many kosovars feel the same). But we re very critical toward those we love , especially when they re caught in deep contradictions . The fact is that the people we re the most critical toward is
by the way , we could use you doj against some of our old state monopolies to break them apart
could we hire it ?
wich country is it illegal in ? besides USA ?
i read they decypherd it because a key wasn t crypted...is that reverse engeenering ???
excuse me , i know nothing...
is it already illegal ???
or is it just fear of lawsuit(cost) that moves everyone to remove it from their download lists ???
hello , I m writing this question from france where we re trying to have a law voted that would ban proprietary software. This situation shows that one country's laws are already affecting others, therefore i'm very interrested in your legal system. The anti trust laws of your country seems a marvel to me since , as a customer, we often suffer from monopolies in France...Yet , it seems you suffer even more from private compagnies that become monopolies... That leads to my question:How come there is no legal feedback after such trials? Since there are laws in your country that permits companies to become trust (i mean badly designed laws or unadequate laws (old ones)),why isn't there also a legal Funding of Facts saying "well we also did some wrong since this part of this law permited them to become a monopoly"??? For example your patents laws seem to cause a lot of trouble ...are you going to wait until damage is done before you tune them ??? Isn't it possible in your country to change laws BEFORE any harm is done ??(that doesn't mean it's possible in mine :) naive question i know thanks for your time given