Sigh...now I know what it's like for an elementary school teacher trying to instruct their students via repetition.
This is borderline tedious...Wolf3D and Doom are 3D games. The gameplay exists within a 3D world and allows for movement in all three dimensions. This is both a matter of fact and common sense to anyone who has ever played them. You have played them haven't you? Do you have any evidence supporting your theory that the games are in fact not 3D and do not allow you to move along all three axis? Please let me know so I can spread this groundbreaking news to the entire internet and the creators of those games who to this day are convinced that they take place in a 3D world.
Wolf3D came out well before Duke Nukem 3D. Duke Nukem was actually competing against Doom...if you actually knew anything about first person shooters, id Software or PC gaming in general you would know this. Wolf3D wasn't called that because of some marketing gimmick.
Knock yourself out thinking that Wolf3D and Doom aren't 3D games. Ignore the fact that they exist in a 3D world and allow for movement along all three axis just like Quake, Halo, Half-Life or any other game that we would labeled as 3D.
2.5D is a term used to describe how the levels themselves are constructed...using 2D data to extrapolate a 3D world. Notice the latter part? A 3D world. Just like a heightmap is used to generate the terrain in Far Cry...you gonna call Far Cry a 2.5D game as well? It also uses sprites for its vegetation...you gonna start calling it 2.5D?
This is my last response to you...I see no reason as to why I should continue wasting my precious time educating you on something so trivial. I have no problem dishing insults your way because I don't think people should limit themselves to compliments. Sometimes people need to be treated harshly so they can learn from their own stupidity. Think of it as tough love. You're clearly either ignorant or simply argumentative. You've provided no evidence to support your ridiculous theory that Wolf3D is in fact not a 3D game. You're opinion is contrary to some of the most intelligent software engineers on the planet such as John Carmack.
Good luck in life...it's unfortunate that I had to verbally bitch slap you around but perhaps this is the wake up call you needed to educate yourself.
Move forward...check
Move backwards...check
Move to the left...check
Move to the right....check
Move up....check
Move down...check
Move arbitrary angles in between those already mentioned...check
It's a 3D game bud. The game itself exists within a 3D world and you can move along all 3 axis.
2.5D simply describes how the gameworld is constructed....hence why both Wolf3D and Doom are described as 3D shooters and not Wolf2.5D.
I'm gonna side with Carmack on this one...unless your resume also includes work that rivals Wolf3D, Doom, Quake, etc.
Thanks for wasting my time...good luck in life.
I think it's hilarious that you're suggesting that it's insane to try and explain things to you. You might want to think long and hard about that one and figure out why you're so reluctant to admit you were wrong. I am feeling a bit insane at this point having wasted so much time trying to enlighten you...oh well...I guess I can take the fact that I know what I'm talking about as some sort of consolation prize. Better to be informed than ignorant (I know...I know....that's an insult)
Oh and for someone who posts things like "Counterproductive and pointless" you probably shouldn't follow it up with 3rd rate deflections which are the epitome of fluff. You can stick your fingers in your ears all you want but that doesn't some how make the faults with your argument go away.
Thanks for the good laugh...as I suspected your attack against me was completely baseless. If my comments meet your definition of an insult it only reinforces the fact that it's a waste of my time trying to discuss this with you.
You can continue to hold onto a definition that has meaning to you alone. Let's ignore the simple fact that industry geniuses such as John Carmack or Tim Sweeney use the one that is found in Wikipedia or any site dedicated to games and descriptions of their game engines.
I'm sure your response to this will consist solely of you crying about being insulted...that's about the only angle you can play since it's absurdity is a good distraction from the actual conversation at hand. You were corrected...didn't like the fact...so you counter with some absurd accusation about being insulted.
No offense but simply pointing out that you're wrong doesn't count as insulting you...unless you're ego is beyond fragile. Is this the standard response you give someone when they disagree with you?
There's a reason I repeated myself 4 times...I was hoping the correct definition of 2.5D would finally sink in with you but I can see that it hasn't.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.
The fact that you resorted to calling me a troll simply because I was critical of something tells me it's a waste of time trying to discuss this with you. There are countless scenes from the trilogy that exhibited poor compositing.
You didn't see any artifacts? That's hilarious because you can see a clear progression of quality through out the entire trilogy as WETA improved their craft. Despite that they still aren't at the same level as say ILM. Seriously, zero artifacts? Even the best compositing from any company has artifacting.
Spare me the cheap insults...it's hard to justify committing any time to a response when you resorted to such childish nonsense within your first sentence.
I never once commented on the overall quality of the movie...reading comprehension goes a long way. How ironic that you posted "get over yourself". Take a dose of your own advice and spare me the unwarranted, fanboy rant.
...will still pale in comparison to ILM. LOTR had some of the worst compositing I had ever seen. The fact that ROTK won an Oscar for Visual Effects only further illustrates the irrelevance of the politics behind the Oscars.
...I can't fault MS too much because they have the best console on the market, with the largest selection of must have games and hands down the best online service.
I own a first day XBox 360 and it's been happily running for over two years because I had the foresight to buy the external fan.
Meanwhile my PS3 collects dust and I haven't even bothered with the biggest gimmick in electronics history...the Wii.
...and in the meantime I will happily enjoy watching my BluRay movies in 1080p with lossless audio which I can't do with any other source.
For some people this is sign that BluRay is a failure and it justifies their decision to sit this generation out. For me it means I get to enjoy movies now at the highest quality while you twiddle your thumbs waiting.
Five years is a loooooooong time to a HT enthusiast!;)
News flash for you...Doom's levels exist along all 3 dimensions.
The game was 3D...the criteria you are using to call it 2.5D is INVALID. The criteria for being 2.5D is simply the fact that it used 2D to generate its 3D world.
Movement along all 3 axis makes it 3D no matter how much you want it to be something else. I guess when id called it Wolf3D they should have consulted you first and called it Wolf2.5D (rolls eyes)
Again...that has nothing to do with what makes a game either 2D or 3D. Doom allows for movement along all 3 axis therefore it is 3D. The fact that you can't make a ramp is meaningless.
Even Quake used sprites for certain things...does that make it 2.5D also?
Actually it was a 3D game since the player could move in....wait for it....hold....ALL THREE AXIS!
The reason it and games like Doom were called 2.5D is because the data used to construct the 3D world was 2D in nature. The final output though was in fact 3D.
How about I get some of those insightful points you stole.
Your response is so idiotic I don't even know where to begin.
A) I never said we rewrote the app. B) 99% of the algorithms out there have been implemented before in other languages. I take it you still use some obscure 40 year old language? C) Are you really that dumb?
Oh please...how your post was modded as insightful is beyond me.
There are compelling reasons as to why functional languages haven't caught on and it wasn't because everyone isn't as much of a programming bad ass as yourself.
Slashdot Mirror
...SanityInAnarchy's theory about how 3D games are really 2D and realized that PC gaming was in dire need of help. ;)
Sigh...now I know what it's like for an elementary school teacher trying to instruct their students via repetition.
This is borderline tedious...Wolf3D and Doom are 3D games. The gameplay exists within a 3D world and allows for movement in all three dimensions. This is both a matter of fact and common sense to anyone who has ever played them. You have played them haven't you? Do you have any evidence supporting your theory that the games are in fact not 3D and do not allow you to move along all three axis? Please let me know so I can spread this groundbreaking news to the entire internet and the creators of those games who to this day are convinced that they take place in a 3D world.
Wolf3D came out well before Duke Nukem 3D. Duke Nukem was actually competing against Doom...if you actually knew anything about first person shooters, id Software or PC gaming in general you would know this. Wolf3D wasn't called that because of some marketing gimmick.
Knock yourself out thinking that Wolf3D and Doom aren't 3D games. Ignore the fact that they exist in a 3D world and allow for movement along all three axis just like Quake, Halo, Half-Life or any other game that we would labeled as 3D.
2.5D is a term used to describe how the levels themselves are constructed...using 2D data to extrapolate a 3D world. Notice the latter part? A 3D world. Just like a heightmap is used to generate the terrain in Far Cry...you gonna call Far Cry a 2.5D game as well? It also uses sprites for its vegetation...you gonna start calling it 2.5D?
This is my last response to you...I see no reason as to why I should continue wasting my precious time educating you on something so trivial. I have no problem dishing insults your way because I don't think people should limit themselves to compliments. Sometimes people need to be treated harshly so they can learn from their own stupidity. Think of it as tough love. You're clearly either ignorant or simply argumentative. You've provided no evidence to support your ridiculous theory that Wolf3D is in fact not a 3D game. You're opinion is contrary to some of the most intelligent software engineers on the planet such as John Carmack.
Good luck in life...it's unfortunate that I had to verbally bitch slap you around but perhaps this is the wake up call you needed to educate yourself.
Move forward...check Move backwards...check Move to the left...check Move to the right....check Move up....check Move down...check Move arbitrary angles in between those already mentioned...check It's a 3D game bud. The game itself exists within a 3D world and you can move along all 3 axis. 2.5D simply describes how the gameworld is constructed....hence why both Wolf3D and Doom are described as 3D shooters and not Wolf2.5D. I'm gonna side with Carmack on this one...unless your resume also includes work that rivals Wolf3D, Doom, Quake, etc. Thanks for wasting my time...good luck in life.
I think it's hilarious that you're suggesting that it's insane to try and explain things to you. You might want to think long and hard about that one and figure out why you're so reluctant to admit you were wrong. I am feeling a bit insane at this point having wasted so much time trying to enlighten you...oh well...I guess I can take the fact that I know what I'm talking about as some sort of consolation prize. Better to be informed than ignorant (I know...I know....that's an insult)
Oh and for someone who posts things like "Counterproductive and pointless" you probably shouldn't follow it up with 3rd rate deflections which are the epitome of fluff. You can stick your fingers in your ears all you want but that doesn't some how make the faults with your argument go away.
Thanks for the good laugh...as I suspected your attack against me was completely baseless. If my comments meet your definition of an insult it only reinforces the fact that it's a waste of my time trying to discuss this with you.
You can continue to hold onto a definition that has meaning to you alone. Let's ignore the simple fact that industry geniuses such as John Carmack or Tim Sweeney use the one that is found in Wikipedia or any site dedicated to games and descriptions of their game engines.
I'm sure your response to this will consist solely of you crying about being insulted...that's about the only angle you can play since it's absurdity is a good distraction from the actual conversation at hand. You were corrected...didn't like the fact...so you counter with some absurd accusation about being insulted.
No offense but simply pointing out that you're wrong doesn't count as insulting you...unless you're ego is beyond fragile. Is this the standard response you give someone when they disagree with you?
There's a reason I repeated myself 4 times...I was hoping the correct definition of 2.5D would finally sink in with you but I can see that it hasn't.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.
Yeah, because only people who do that for a living can comment on its quality. (rolls eyes)
Think you before you post.
The fact that you resorted to calling me a troll simply because I was critical of something tells me it's a waste of time trying to discuss this with you. There are countless scenes from the trilogy that exhibited poor compositing.
You didn't see any artifacts? That's hilarious because you can see a clear progression of quality through out the entire trilogy as WETA improved their craft. Despite that they still aren't at the same level as say ILM. Seriously, zero artifacts? Even the best compositing from any company has artifacting.
Spare me the cheap insults...it's hard to justify committing any time to a response when you resorted to such childish nonsense within your first sentence.
I never once commented on the overall quality of the movie...reading comprehension goes a long way. How ironic that you posted "get over yourself". Take a dose of your own advice and spare me the unwarranted, fanboy rant.
FAIL
...will still pale in comparison to ILM. LOTR had some of the worst compositing I had ever seen. The fact that ROTK won an Oscar for Visual Effects only further illustrates the irrelevance of the politics behind the Oscars.
...I can't fault MS too much because they have the best console on the market, with the largest selection of must have games and hands down the best online service. I own a first day XBox 360 and it's been happily running for over two years because I had the foresight to buy the external fan. Meanwhile my PS3 collects dust and I haven't even bothered with the biggest gimmick in electronics history...the Wii.
...and in the meantime I will happily enjoy watching my BluRay movies in 1080p with lossless audio which I can't do with any other source.
For some people this is sign that BluRay is a failure and it justifies their decision to sit this generation out. For me it means I get to enjoy movies now at the highest quality while you twiddle your thumbs waiting.
Five years is a loooooooong time to a HT enthusiast! ;)
...got a clue since the last time his city got pwned. How that fool got elected again is beyond me.
Accusing someone of being "naive" is the standard response to any criticism of a conspiracy theory.
Here's a wet napkin to wipe the kool aid stain off your face!
I'd like to give this guy a "Tin Foil Hat" mod point.
News flash for you...Doom's levels exist along all 3 dimensions.
The game was 3D...the criteria you are using to call it 2.5D is INVALID. The criteria for being 2.5D is simply the fact that it used 2D to generate its 3D world.
Movement along all 3 axis makes it 3D no matter how much you want it to be something else. I guess when id called it Wolf3D they should have consulted you first and called it Wolf2.5D (rolls eyes)
Is there a mod point for a Tin Foil Hat?
...and the best use I could find for my ocho-core mac pro was to put Vista on it! ;)
Again...that has nothing to do with what makes a game either 2D or 3D. Doom allows for movement along all 3 axis therefore it is 3D. The fact that you can't make a ramp is meaningless.
Even Quake used sprites for certain things...does that make it 2.5D also?
FAIL
Actually it was a 3D game since the player could move in....wait for it....hold....ALL THREE AXIS!
The reason it and games like Doom were called 2.5D is because the data used to construct the 3D world was 2D in nature. The final output though was in fact 3D.
How about I get some of those insightful points you stole.
No they aren't. Intel is going to make it work with DirectX and OpenGL calls so that it works with games.
Your response is so idiotic I don't even know where to begin.
A) I never said we rewrote the app.
B) 99% of the algorithms out there have been implemented before in other languages. I take it you still use some obscure 40 year old language?
C) Are you really that dumb?
Maybe your failed attempt at humor wouldn't have been so bad if it didn't painfully indicate complete ignorance of Rage and what it looks like.
Oh please...how your post was modded as insightful is beyond me.
There are compelling reasons as to why functional languages haven't caught on and it wasn't because everyone isn't as much of a programming bad ass as yourself.
I have on numerous occasions...and you know what? It was just as fast in Java.