Comparing the two is disingenuous. True, we have nastygrams for infringement, NSLs,etc-- but their use tends to be fairly limited. We do NOT have grossly expansive libel laws that allow entities to demand that true-but-damaging information be suppressed for no other reason than that it is damaging.
It never ceases to amaze me how much people on the internet love to hate on the US, all the while European countries (and Australia) seem to be running with open arms towards heavy state-controlled censorship. Maybe Europe isnt the utopia people love to paint it as. Maybe you truly cant trust the government to have your best interest in mind all the time.
The one where the European Union said stop poisoning our children or you can't sell your crap here?
While I agree that it would be nice if they just used beta carotene, has there been ANY evidence that yellow 5 and the other colors they use have EVER caused a single incidence of cancer? The "poisoning our children" angle is fun and all but these colorings are everywhere in our foods, its pretty silly to single kraft out over this.
Shouldn't it be enough to demonstrate the harm and industry then stop the harm?
Maybe the study went further than the article, but Im not clear where you got "harm" from. The article mentions gene changes-- that doesnt mean they were harmful.
You know what they say about assumptions.
Frankly if an industry requires a profit motive to stop hurting us, then that industry needs serious reforms at a root level.
If you think you can expect institutional altruism out of anyone, I have a bridge to sell you.
2. Its actually easier, as before you had to press-and-hold and then hit the screen... now you tap a volume button once and change it from "none" to normal. 4. Turn off battery saver. 5. ART opens faster; this is fact, because it pre-compiles. The installation will take longer-- thats the tradeoff vs JIT.
improved battery, pinnable apps, multi-user (ie, guest or kids mode), trusted smart unlock, better notifications... those are the big ones off the top of my head.
American Dairy Milk bars are awful compared to the UK versions for example.
Is it at all possible that it has to do with what you're familiar with?
Because believe me I have tried a lot of foreign candy and it really doesnt suit my palate. I dont know that I could categorically call them "awful", though, without betraying ignorance into how palate differences work.
White chocolate in europe actually contains more cocoa than milk chocolate needs to in the US.
Which is misleading, because white chocolate in the US contains more cocoa than milk chocolate in the US.
The fact that both statements are true is not surprising because Europe actually has the same white chocolate standards:
Regulations govern what may be marketed as "white chocolate": In the United States, since 2004, white chocolate must be (by weight) at least 20% cocoa butter, 14% total milk solids, and 3.5% milk fat, and no more than 55% sugar or other sweeteners....The European Union has adopted the same standards, except that there is no limit on sugar or sweeteners
Its interesting that you phrased it in a way to suggest that the US lacks good chocolate regulation when in fact the US has tighter regulation on white chocolate than the EU-- though to be fair the EU does require more cocoa in its milk chocolate than the US.
Incidentally, this page suggests that its actually 25% thats required in the EU, both for fat and non-fat cocoa solids. Thats not quite the picture you paint.
Flavor is a subjective thing, so what you're essentially saying is "I dont like the taste of American foods and Im not American, therefore your food sucks". Surprisingly, there are many Americans who prefer the taste of food they grew up with, such as American chocolate, and do not always like the different tastes that other countries have.
Clearly though your taste buds are the standard by which the entire world should judge. The fact that I actually like American Snickers bars, despite having tasted Belgian chocolate (which, i hope you would agree, constitutes "real" chocolate), surely must mean that my taste buds are broken. At least, this seems to be what you're saying.
I think what you're really saying when you say "This sounds like just more "Europe is better than America" crap" is that you can't stand the idea that some places might actually be better than America at some things.
No, what hes getting at is that there is a tired cliche that because something is European it must be inherently better, and also that any chance not taken to slam America is wasted. I assure you (without even having to research this) that there are world class wineries, chocolatiers, chefs, etc in the US-- even ones that would meet your particular requirements for "good' chocolate.
I have a scary newsflash for you: you live in a free society and there is nothing that prevents someone from kicking in a door and murdering your family as you sleep at night. We can punish them after they do it, sure, but you'll still be dead.
Maybe we should put cops and cameras at every street corner! Or we could recognize that we have things incredibly good in this country and there is zero sense throwing it all away over some hysterical fears that are incredibly low on the risk matrix.
What is the problem you are seeing that requires a law update? Our country remains strong, murder rates are down, violent crime is down, our economy is up...
why is it so many people seem to think "changing what works" is a good idea?
Except for developers of applications who decide to make inexplicible design changes (cough AMAROK) where you dont have the expertise to fork, sure.
Anyone feel like forking Gnome 2? It shouldnt be hard!
By your logic, with a PC you dont have to put up with anyone's crap cause you can just write your own OS, SSL library, and browser from scratch! Yay, how productive!
The further back you go, the less worth the $3k it is. Their pricing is remotely competitive these days at only ~1.3-1.5x more than the competition. In years past it was as bad as 2x-3x as much.
Do those ideas involve super injunctions for libel? Blocking the mere discussion of a company and its doings in Africa because they might cause financial harm?
Yes, the US has issues, but our default stance is much more towards free speech than the UK.
would fall into the camp of abuse of network services by their users
Most companies allow limited, non-disruptive personal use of computers. Unless youre in a really sensitive job like CIA or something, people generally allow shooting a quick email to family during or after hours.
Do people in the US want to enjoy the role of a free and unrestrained press or enter a new UK like legal system of professional responsibility and legal safeguards?
I dont know. Does the UK system cause fundamental human nature to change such that you can trust those in power to act responsibly with no scrutiny?
unless you create it as part of your job, in which case it's owned by whoever paid you.
Usually. If for instance youre an independent contractor and create the work as part of a solution you sell to the client, the copyright may remain with you.
I speak with them quite often, and my acquaintance with China is not casual. I would however be foolish to reveal the nature of that acquaintance publicly, and will not do so; you can either believe me, or not. However I have not known anyone to refer to the church as anything other than "the Three Self church"-- never by its full name, to the point where I had no clue that it had a fuller name.
- I agree with you on the "communism" thing which is why i put it in quotes but tell me what the "official" name of the government party in power is called?
Zimbabwe and North Korea both have "democratic" and/or "republic" in their name, as did the country run by the Khmer Rouge; they are anything but. Technically, China also has the word "republic" in its name, but its a bit of a stretch given that which party you vote for is pre-decided and local rulers (ie Hong Kong) are selected by the government.
As to whether Slashdot is banned in China, I could find out pretty easily, but in any case im sure the 50 Cent Partyhas a special dispensation to bypass the GFW in order to bend opinion.
I do hate to pull out the shill card, but there are a large number of anonymous posts in this thread where the author is both highly defensive of Chinese policy and highly critical of US policy, which is a strategy (changing the discussion, goalpost shifting) officially recommended for the 50 cent party. I keep seeing this same letter (Ã) in their posts, which occurs on the pinyin keyboard, and they use very strange english phrases ("flogging the religion") which I have never heard native speakers use.
I would have to be naieve to assume that there are no Chinese shills here, and your attack on free speech in point 3 jives with the Chinese official stance that "some kinds of thought must not be tolerated".
The skokie case was specifically about "hate speech". Nazi demonstrators wanted to demonstrate in a mostly Jewish town -- including speech. The Supreme court ruled that they could.
I also find it quite strange that I ask a question about whether missionaries deserve prison, and you respond with a question about treason. The question about missionaries stands, do you think missionaries deserve prison for simply discussing religion? Do students deserve death for simply asking for democracy?
We're not talking about government overthrow here, we're talking about the right to discuss what one believes.
It is very interesting also that your post contains many letters found on a pinyin keyboard, and posted AC. Where are you posting from, exactly?
If my house is on fire, I'm not about to lecture the guy next door about fireplace safety.
The context here is Gmail and China, and Chinese censorship at large. If you have specific gripes about the US government, this is probably the wrong topic for it. Getting mad at me because I am speaking on topic seems quite strange; you were better off going to a different article if you were not prepared to discuss the Chinese security context.
Just to go over your points quite quickly, 1) FISA courts have not as far as anyone knows allowed global MITM of SSL, nor (as far as anyone knows) does NSA even have the technological capacity to do so because they dont have the private keys of all US-based entities nor is anyone aware of a method to break 2048-bit RSA.
2) KKK may be "monitored", but they are allowed to speak, demonstrate, organize, and so forth as long as they commit no actual crimes (arson etc). This is not the case in China.
3) The burden of proof is on the accuser. It is reasonable to expect that the NSA is doing a lot of unauthorized spying based on recently disclosed evidence. It is NOT reasonable to automatically believe every crackpot theory about SSL MITM without proof. There is evidence of SSL MITM in very specific cases (ie, Lavabit). There is zero evidence for the kind of global SSL MITM that China enforces.
4) You are veering off into tangents and getting mad at me for doing so. If ranting makes you feel better, by all means continue, but Im not going to entertain it any further. Based on the number of 50 cent army in the thread (counted 3 so far), Im half convinced you're one of them.
Slashdot Mirror
and the US
Comparing the two is disingenuous. True, we have nastygrams for infringement, NSLs,etc-- but their use tends to be fairly limited. We do NOT have grossly expansive libel laws that allow entities to demand that true-but-damaging information be suppressed for no other reason than that it is damaging.
It never ceases to amaze me how much people on the internet love to hate on the US, all the while European countries (and Australia) seem to be running with open arms towards heavy state-controlled censorship. Maybe Europe isnt the utopia people love to paint it as. Maybe you truly cant trust the government to have your best interest in mind all the time.
The one where the European Union said stop poisoning our children or you can't sell your crap here?
While I agree that it would be nice if they just used beta carotene, has there been ANY evidence that yellow 5 and the other colors they use have EVER caused a single incidence of cancer? The "poisoning our children" angle is fun and all but these colorings are everywhere in our foods, its pretty silly to single kraft out over this.
Shouldn't it be enough to demonstrate the harm and industry then stop the harm?
Maybe the study went further than the article, but Im not clear where you got "harm" from. The article mentions gene changes-- that doesnt mean they were harmful.
You know what they say about assumptions.
Frankly if an industry requires a profit motive to stop hurting us, then that industry needs serious reforms at a root level.
If you think you can expect institutional altruism out of anyone, I have a bridge to sell you.
2. Its actually easier, as before you had to press-and-hold and then hit the screen... now you tap a volume button once and change it from "none" to normal.
4. Turn off battery saver.
5. ART opens faster; this is fact, because it pre-compiles. The installation will take longer-- thats the tradeoff vs JIT.
improved battery, pinnable apps, multi-user (ie, guest or kids mode), trusted smart unlock, better notifications... those are the big ones off the top of my head.
Why should breaking a particular law with a gun (say, robbery) be treated differently than with a knife? I have never seen the logic here.
American Dairy Milk bars are awful compared to the UK versions for example.
Is it at all possible that it has to do with what you're familiar with?
Because believe me I have tried a lot of foreign candy and it really doesnt suit my palate. I dont know that I could categorically call them "awful", though, without betraying ignorance into how palate differences work.
White chocolate in europe actually contains more cocoa than milk chocolate needs to in the US.
Which is misleading, because white chocolate in the US contains more cocoa than milk chocolate in the US.
The fact that both statements are true is not surprising because Europe actually has the same white chocolate standards:
Regulations govern what may be marketed as "white chocolate": In the United States, since 2004, white chocolate must be (by weight) at least 20% cocoa butter, 14% total milk solids, and 3.5% milk fat, and no more than 55% sugar or other sweeteners....The European Union has adopted the same standards, except that there is no limit on sugar or sweeteners
Its interesting that you phrased it in a way to suggest that the US lacks good chocolate regulation when in fact the US has tighter regulation on white chocolate than the EU-- though to be fair the EU does require more cocoa in its milk chocolate than the US.
Incidentally, this page suggests that its actually 25% thats required in the EU, both for fat and non-fat cocoa solids. Thats not quite the picture you paint.
Flavor is a subjective thing, so what you're essentially saying is "I dont like the taste of American foods and Im not American, therefore your food sucks". Surprisingly, there are many Americans who prefer the taste of food they grew up with, such as American chocolate, and do not always like the different tastes that other countries have.
Clearly though your taste buds are the standard by which the entire world should judge. The fact that I actually like American Snickers bars, despite having tasted Belgian chocolate (which, i hope you would agree, constitutes "real" chocolate), surely must mean that my taste buds are broken. At least, this seems to be what you're saying.
I think what you're really saying when you say "This sounds like just more "Europe is better than America" crap" is that you can't stand the idea that some places might actually be better than America at some things.
No, what hes getting at is that there is a tired cliche that because something is European it must be inherently better, and also that any chance not taken to slam America is wasted. I assure you (without even having to research this) that there are world class wineries, chocolatiers, chefs, etc in the US-- even ones that would meet your particular requirements for "good' chocolate.
I have a scary newsflash for you: you live in a free society and there is nothing that prevents someone from kicking in a door and murdering your family as you sleep at night. We can punish them after they do it, sure, but you'll still be dead.
Maybe we should put cops and cameras at every street corner! Or we could recognize that we have things incredibly good in this country and there is zero sense throwing it all away over some hysterical fears that are incredibly low on the risk matrix.
What is the problem you are seeing that requires a law update? Our country remains strong, murder rates are down, violent crime is down, our economy is up...
why is it so many people seem to think "changing what works" is a good idea?
Were the planes DC-8s, by any chance?
Except for developers of applications who decide to make inexplicible design changes (cough AMAROK) where you dont have the expertise to fork, sure.
Anyone feel like forking Gnome 2? It shouldnt be hard!
By your logic, with a PC you dont have to put up with anyone's crap cause you can just write your own OS, SSL library, and browser from scratch! Yay, how productive!
The further back you go, the less worth the $3k it is. Their pricing is remotely competitive these days at only ~1.3-1.5x more than the competition. In years past it was as bad as 2x-3x as much.
I will say that I have only dealt with Apple documentation a handful of times, but it seemed substantially worse and more arcane than MSDN.
My early 20 something sisters don't know how to read an analog clock.
Im not clear how exactly thats something the schools need to teach. Did they teach your siblings how to brush their teeth too?
Do those ideas involve super injunctions for libel? Blocking the mere discussion of a company and its doings in Africa because they might cause financial harm?
Yes, the US has issues, but our default stance is much more towards free speech than the UK.
There is a qualitative difference between "reviewing code on my spare time when I feel like it" and "Im paid to look for security bugs 9-5".
Obviously you can argue about whether security is prioritized for any particular closed-source software vendor, but there IS a difference.
would fall into the camp of abuse of network services by their users
Most companies allow limited, non-disruptive personal use of computers. Unless youre in a really sensitive job like CIA or something, people generally allow shooting a quick email to family during or after hours.
Do people in the US want to enjoy the role of a free and unrestrained press or enter a new UK like legal system of professional responsibility and legal safeguards?
I dont know. Does the UK system cause fundamental human nature to change such that you can trust those in power to act responsibly with no scrutiny?
unless you create it as part of your job, in which case it's owned by whoever paid you.
Usually. If for instance youre an independent contractor and create the work as part of a solution you sell to the client, the copyright may remain with you.
various chemicals.
Scare word alert. How bout a trigger warning next time?
Try talking to people from China more often.
I speak with them quite often, and my acquaintance with China is not casual. I would however be foolish to reveal the nature of that acquaintance publicly, and will not do so; you can either believe me, or not. However I have not known anyone to refer to the church as anything other than "the Three Self church"-- never by its full name, to the point where I had no clue that it had a fuller name.
- I agree with you on the "communism" thing which is why i put it in quotes but tell me what the "official" name of the government party in power is called?
Zimbabwe and North Korea both have "democratic" and/or "republic" in their name, as did the country run by the Khmer Rouge; they are anything but. Technically, China also has the word "republic" in its name, but its a bit of a stretch given that which party you vote for is pre-decided and local rulers (ie Hong Kong) are selected by the government.
As to whether Slashdot is banned in China, I could find out pretty easily, but in any case im sure the 50 Cent Partyhas a special dispensation to bypass the GFW in order to bend opinion.
I do hate to pull out the shill card, but there are a large number of anonymous posts in this thread where the author is both highly defensive of Chinese policy and highly critical of US policy, which is a strategy (changing the discussion, goalpost shifting) officially recommended for the 50 cent party. I keep seeing this same letter (Ã) in their posts, which occurs on the pinyin keyboard, and they use very strange english phrases ("flogging the religion") which I have never heard native speakers use.
I would have to be naieve to assume that there are no Chinese shills here, and your attack on free speech in point 3 jives with the Chinese official stance that "some kinds of thought must not be tolerated".
The skokie case was specifically about "hate speech". Nazi demonstrators wanted to demonstrate in a mostly Jewish town -- including speech. The Supreme court ruled that they could.
I also find it quite strange that I ask a question about whether missionaries deserve prison, and you respond with a question about treason. The question about missionaries stands, do you think missionaries deserve prison for simply discussing religion? Do students deserve death for simply asking for democracy?
We're not talking about government overthrow here, we're talking about the right to discuss what one believes.
It is very interesting also that your post contains many letters found on a pinyin keyboard, and posted AC. Where are you posting from, exactly?
If my house is on fire, I'm not about to lecture the guy next door about fireplace safety.
The context here is Gmail and China, and Chinese censorship at large. If you have specific gripes about the US government, this is probably the wrong topic for it. Getting mad at me because I am speaking on topic seems quite strange; you were better off going to a different article if you were not prepared to discuss the Chinese security context.
Just to go over your points quite quickly,
1) FISA courts have not as far as anyone knows allowed global MITM of SSL, nor (as far as anyone knows) does NSA even have the technological capacity to do so because they dont have the private keys of all US-based entities nor is anyone aware of a method to break 2048-bit RSA.
2) KKK may be "monitored", but they are allowed to speak, demonstrate, organize, and so forth as long as they commit no actual crimes (arson etc). This is not the case in China.
3) The burden of proof is on the accuser. It is reasonable to expect that the NSA is doing a lot of unauthorized spying based on recently disclosed evidence. It is NOT reasonable to automatically believe every crackpot theory about SSL MITM without proof. There is evidence of SSL MITM in very specific cases (ie, Lavabit). There is zero evidence for the kind of global SSL MITM that China enforces.
4) You are veering off into tangents and getting mad at me for doing so. If ranting makes you feel better, by all means continue, but Im not going to entertain it any further. Based on the number of 50 cent army in the thread (counted 3 so far), Im half convinced you're one of them.