The Python interpreter is NOT multithreaded. The interpreter can manage, and spawn, threads, but when interpreting the Python P-code itself there is one and only one thread. A "global interpreter lock" is not multithreading; it's a kludge. Guido has said as much in the past, and hinted that this would be addressed in Python 3000.
Reading the Zope list, and searching the archives, you will see Python's poor threading support bemoaned repeatedly as a roadblock to scaling a single Zope process on multi-processor systems.
Perhaps I could sum up the C API aspect of my question as follows:
JPython rocks. Working with JPython in Java rocks. When, oh when, will the C implementation of Python compare favorably to the Java version?
None of you who have worked with both C and Java Python can tell me that there is any comparison at the API level. JPython rocks all over CPython in that regard.
Python can spawn multiple threads, yes; but Python can only interpret bytecodes in one thread at a time. What does this mean? Well, your C extension can go about its merry way in its own thread, but the moment you are back in Python-land everyone is competing for the one and only interpreter thread. As I said in my initial post, it's a workaround. It is well known that Python does not completely and properly support threads, as Tcl (and many other script languages) does. Guido has said this is a deficiency in the current C implementation and will be addressed in the future.
It's been a while since I've seen any mention of Python 3000--aside from the recent April Fools joke, that is. I love Python as a language, and use it both professionally and personally. But, Python's current implementation is lacking; the interpreter is not multi-threaded, causing large Python applications (such as Zope) to implement various workarounds that only partly address the problem; and the C API is rather...unpleasant. Working with the Tcl C API in an embedding situation is much, much better, IMO. Will Python 3000 address any of these concerns? Any information on a timeline, or current status?
Bah. Carnivores have inhabited this planet from the day we moved past single-celled organisms. Take a day and go sit on the African safari and tell me that it's wrong to eat meat.
If you believe in God, you can rest easy knowing that he made the Tiger eat other animals. If you don't, then you can rest easy knowing nature/evolution did. Either way, why does humans' intellect make us any less moral for doing what the rest of nature does on a daily basis?
If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat.;-)
There was no factual error made. The ADC is not proprietary. It is a little known extension, allowed for in the DVI spec., that apple implemented. It is true that you, currently, cannot use an ADC display on non-Apple hardware, but that may very well change.
Where would one look to find information on living in the Netherlands, as an American?
I am a senior object oriented software architect with five years experiencence in Java, C++, Eiffel, Python, and Tcl.
What are the possibilities of my moving there and starting an IT consulting business? Are there restrictions on foreigners starting new businesses, or would I be in the clear?
If consulting isn't the way to go, what are the chances I might find a job in Amsterdam as an American? I've heard that if you're not an EU citizen you're screwed.
The article will thus go into December issue (published middle of November), I'll arrange to have it put onto the free section of the Jane's Intelligence Review website (yes, you do all get to see it, of course), and if you find your comments included, contact me at johan.ingles@janes.co.uk for payment at our usual lineage rates (yes, of course you get paid - after all, we are gentlemen).
Note the line: if you find your comments included, contact me at...
No one is going to be giving out anyone's email address. It is up to you to claim responsiblity for your comments, should you find them in use.
I hope no one abuses Jane's generocity; they are acting in a very responsible and classy manner, as far as I'm concerned.
Did it ever occur to any of you who are bitching about this being distasteful that the "poor guy who's being exploited, and who's house is going to get destroyed" is the one who sent the link to Rob?
After I've watched our government attempt to take literally every freedom they can away from me, I made a stand and became a card-carrying Libertarian. The name alone means the world to me, "Libertarian." Liberty. I wish I knew what it was like.
I will vote a straight Libertarian ticket from this point on, and do everything I can to promote the freedom that this country was built on. Our founding fathers would be rolling in their graves if they knew what the country their brothers died fighting to create had turned into. And our greedy politicians (with their own, personal agendas) are only too happy to increase the RPM of their spinning.
"The essential principles of our Government... form the bright constellation which has gone before us and guided our steps through an age of revolution and reformation. The wisdom of our sages and blood of our heroes have been devoted to their attainment. They should be the creed of our political faith, the text of civic instruction, the touchstone by which to try the services of those we trust; and should we wander from them in moments of error or of alarm, let us hasten to retrace our steps and to regain the road which alone leads to peace, liberty and safety." --Thomas Jefferson, 1st Inaugural Address, 1801.
Politics has become a game all of its own, where the people we elect either don't feel they can, or simply don't, vote to protect what truly made American special in years past. Some of the ideas the Libertarian party present scared me a bit, at first; some of the Libertarian ideals may scare you at first. Really think about it, though. Is there ANYTHING you can think of that you think the government can handle better than you, yourself?
Obviously, defending our borders is not a one-man job. But, the Libertarians allow for National Defense. The Libertarians do NOT allow for offensives that take our resources and cause national attention to be focused on us (can you say Yugoslavia?)
But, do you think you know better how to spend the money they take for income tax? Imagine what you could do with the money that gets taken out of each and every check you've busted your butt to earn. Imagine if that went into investments, instead. Think you'd be able to pay for all your children's education, privately? Not a problem.
Do you think you know better whether or not you should take drugs into your body? Do you want the violence in your neighborhood to go away, because now you can buy pot, crack, and meth at Eckerds or Revco. Prices go down, violence stops (because dealers are no longer protecting their territories), and the only people who use are the people who choose to. Kind of like smoking, now. And we can EDUCATE those people, just as we are doing and have done with tobacco; it's not as "cool" to smoke as it used to be, because people know it's stupid.
Certainly, the government doesn't know how to censor yourself or your children better than you. Every time we turn around they are making more and more choices for us on what can and cannot be allowed to fall into our vision.
Perhaps the most telling thing for me is the symbol of the Libertarian party: The Status of Liberty. Much better than an Ass and an Elephant.
Comments like this really get me going. I am no Microsoft fan, but I am intelligent enough to recognize that, yes, Microsoft has done *some* nice things with Windows. Having a browser at your beck and call whenever you need one is a *feature*, not a hindrance.
People also seem to forget that SGI had a web-enabled desktop in IRIX before Microsoft was able to embed IE in Explorer. Perhaps it was Microsoft making Windows more like IRIX.
The simple fact is that it is natural evolution. If SGI hadn't done it first, Microsoft would have. If Microsoft hadn't, perhaps GNOME would have. No matter who did it "first", the point is, someone would have done it, and it's a benefit to mankind, regardless of its inventor.
There are *no* disadvantages to having a web browser embedded in your desktop (at least, not in GNOME--having Explorer crash when you view a Java page is not a Good Thing, but that's Microsoft's fault.) If you don't want to use it, don't navigate to an HTTP address. There, now you don't even know it's there. "Bloat" you say? Get more RAM. The 80s are gone, and so is the 640k limit. A 128M PC100 DIMM is currently ~$80 on PriceWatch, so there's no excuse for not having enough RAM to support the needs of modern software.
Saying adding a browser to GNOME is making is MORE like Windows is like saying that adding wheels to a wheelbarrow is making it MORE like a car, in some derrogatory sense. Bullsh*t. It rolls, now, and helps you get your work done faster. You can carry your boulders all day, for all I care, but I want to wheel mine, thank you. I have better things to do with the time I save.
The 300A is, by far, the most overclockable Celeron in existance. Their production has, however, been discontinued, as I understand it. If you can still get your hands on 300As for a reasonable price, you can't go wrong.
I have read many reports of people trying to OC the 333, and while some have had success, it's always been at unorthodox FSB speeds (like 83mhz), which can cause disk corruption and so forth. Running at a "supported" FSB, 66mhz or 100mhz, is recommended, and the 300A does this quite well.
Forgot to mention the fact that my Celerons are the OEM version (not boxed, and without fan.) Any claims that the retail versions are of higher quality may or may not be true, but I've had no problems with my OEMs (and, I got to pick my own heatsink, resulting in better cooling.)
Most of the discussion I've read leads me to believe the quality of the OEM and Retail Celerons are the same, with respect to overclocking. YMMV.
I recently put together a new machine to use as my Linux development box at home. Here are the components I got:
Asus P2B-D (BIOS rev. 1008) Celeron 300A (SL36A) (x2) MSI MS-6905 1.0 Slotket (x2) (modified by ComputerNerd for SMP and 2.2v) PC Power & Cooling CPU Cool Z1-C CPU Cooler (x2) (These are the perfect size for mounting on the slotket, and are 1" high, which leaves just enough space between the CPUs on the Asus board.) IBM DTTA-101440 14gig Ultra/ATA HDD Asus 50x CD-ROM Matrox Millenium G200 8MB SGRAM Intel EtherExpress 10/100+ 384MB CAS-2 PC100 Micron SDRAM (128x3) PC Power & Cooling Personal Tower Case PC Power & Cooling TurboCool 300 ATX Power Supply Happy Hacker Keyboard:)
We put it all together, turned it on (at 66mhz FSB, 300mhz CPUs) and installed Debian GNU/Linux. Shut it down, jumpered the motherboard to 100mhz FSB, 450mhz CPUs, turned it back on and it has (knock on wood) ran flawlessly for the last week or two (with lots of compiling, Quake 3 Arena, and so on, so it's definitely been getting beat on.)
Overall, I paid about $1500-1600 for the system (sans monitor), and can say I am _extremely_ happy with its performance. 900mhz of SMP love, running Linux no less.:)
(I can serve web pages AND play Quake 3 Arena at the same time, without losing a frame! Imagine that!)
I am a long-time RedHat user who, while waiting for 6.0, ended up trying out Debian. Though it required a _tad_ more work to get up and running properly, I must say that I now have an incredible system. dselect and apt are wonderful, and allow me to add and remove software extremely easily. The days of searching the net for lone RPMs are gone; now, I simply add one line to/etc/apt/sources.list, fire up dselect or apt, and then use my new software (which, btw, has just been installed into my menu for KDE in X, automatically.)
If the mirrors are too busy, you might want to give Debian a try. I didn't think I'd be that impressed, but I was wrong; I dig it.
RedHat is still good. I am not saying it sucks; all flames to/dev/null. I just dig Debian, and felt the Debian team deserved a pat on the back.:) Good job, guys (and gals!)
Slashdot Mirror
The Python interpreter is NOT multithreaded. The interpreter can manage, and spawn, threads, but when interpreting the Python P-code itself there is one and only one thread. A "global interpreter lock" is not multithreading; it's a kludge. Guido has said as much in the past, and hinted that this would be addressed in Python 3000.
Reading the Zope list, and searching the archives, you will see Python's poor threading support bemoaned repeatedly as a roadblock to scaling a single Zope process on multi-processor systems.
Perhaps I could sum up the C API aspect of my question as follows:
JPython rocks. Working with JPython in Java rocks. When, oh when, will the C implementation of Python compare favorably to the Java version?
None of you who have worked with both C and Java Python can tell me that there is any comparison at the API level. JPython rocks all over CPython in that regard.
Python can spawn multiple threads, yes; but Python can only interpret bytecodes in one thread at a time. What does this mean? Well, your C extension can go about its merry way in its own thread, but the moment you are back in Python-land everyone is competing for the one and only interpreter thread. As I said in my initial post, it's a workaround. It is well known that Python does not completely and properly support threads, as Tcl (and many other script languages) does. Guido has said this is a deficiency in the current C implementation and will be addressed in the future.
It's been a while since I've seen any mention of Python 3000--aside from the recent April Fools joke, that is. I love Python as a language, and use it both professionally and personally. But, Python's current implementation is lacking; the interpreter is not multi-threaded, causing large Python applications (such as Zope) to implement various workarounds that only partly address the problem; and the C API is rather...unpleasant. Working with the Tcl C API in an embedding situation is much, much better, IMO. Will Python 3000 address any of these concerns? Any information on a timeline, or current status?
Bah. Carnivores have inhabited this planet from the day we moved past single-celled organisms. Take a day and go sit on the African safari and tell me that it's wrong to eat meat.
;-)
If you believe in God, you can rest easy knowing that he made the Tiger eat other animals. If you don't, then you can rest easy knowing nature/evolution did. Either way, why does humans' intellect make us any less moral for doing what the rest of nature does on a daily basis?
If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat.
--Xar
There was no factual error made. The ADC is not proprietary. It is a little known extension, allowed for in the DVI spec., that apple implemented. It is true that you, currently, cannot use an ADC display on non-Apple hardware, but that may very well change.
So, is anyone brave enough to try and upgrade from 6.2 to 7.0? I know it's possible under Debian, but is it a wise thing to try with RedHat?
--Xar
Anyone out there with an interest in InterBase and Zope should know that there is a nice, multi-threaded, Database Adapter for Zope called gvibDA.
Zope and InterBase make an awesome combination for building database backed websites.
Enjoy.
--Xar
Don't let the 0.1 version number scare you. It's quite usable.
Haha. Yes!
Where would one look to find information on living in the Netherlands, as an American?
I am a senior object oriented software architect with five years experiencence in Java, C++, Eiffel, Python, and Tcl.
What are the possibilities of my moving there and starting an IT consulting business? Are there restrictions on foreigners starting new businesses, or would I be in the clear?
If consulting isn't the way to go, what are the chances I might find a job in Amsterdam as an American? I've heard that if you're not an EU citizen you're screwed.
--Xar
Note the line: if you find your comments included, contact me at ...
No one is going to be giving out anyone's email address. It is up to you to claim responsiblity for your comments, should you find them in use.
I hope no one abuses Jane's generocity; they are acting in a very responsible and classy manner, as far as I'm concerned.
--Xar
Did it ever occur to any of you who are bitching about this being distasteful that the "poor guy who's being exploited, and who's house is going to get destroyed" is the one who sent the link to Rob?
Maybe now is a good time to mention the Libertarian party.
After I've watched our government attempt to take literally every freedom they can away from me, I made a stand and became a card-carrying Libertarian. The name alone means the world to me, "Libertarian." Liberty. I wish I knew what it was like.
I will vote a straight Libertarian ticket from this point on, and do everything I can to promote the freedom that this country was built on. Our founding fathers would be rolling in their graves if they knew what the country their brothers died fighting to create had turned into. And our greedy politicians (with their own, personal agendas) are only too happy to increase the RPM of their spinning.
"The essential principles of our Government... form the bright constellation which has gone before us and guided our steps through an age of revolution and reformation. The wisdom of our sages and blood of our heroes have been devoted to their attainment. They should be the creed of our political faith, the text of civic instruction, the touchstone by which to try the services of those we trust; and should we wander from them in moments of error or of alarm, let us hasten to retrace our steps and to regain the road which alone leads to peace, liberty and safety." --Thomas Jefferson, 1st Inaugural Address, 1801.
Politics has become a game all of its own, where the people we elect either don't feel they can, or simply don't, vote to protect what truly made American special in years past. Some of the ideas the Libertarian party present scared me a bit, at first; some of the Libertarian ideals may scare you at first. Really think about it, though. Is there ANYTHING you can think of that you think the government can handle better than you, yourself?
Obviously, defending our borders is not a one-man job. But, the Libertarians allow for National Defense. The Libertarians do NOT allow for offensives that take our resources and cause national attention to be focused on us (can you say Yugoslavia?)
But, do you think you know better how to spend the money they take for income tax? Imagine what you could do with the money that gets taken out of each and every check you've busted your butt to earn. Imagine if that went into investments, instead. Think you'd be able to pay for all your children's education, privately? Not a problem.
Do you think you know better whether or not you should take drugs into your body? Do you want the violence in your neighborhood to go away, because now you can buy pot, crack, and meth at Eckerds or Revco. Prices go down, violence stops (because dealers are no longer protecting their territories), and the only people who use are the people who choose to. Kind of like smoking, now. And we can EDUCATE those people, just as we are doing and have done with tobacco; it's not as "cool" to smoke as it used to be, because people know it's stupid.
Certainly, the government doesn't know how to censor yourself or your children better than you. Every time we turn around they are making more and more choices for us on what can and cannot be allowed to fall into our vision.
Perhaps the most telling thing for me is the symbol of the Libertarian party: The Status of Liberty. Much better than an Ass and an Elephant.
"Give me liberty, or give me death."
--Xar
Comments like this really get me going. I am no Microsoft fan, but I am intelligent enough to recognize that, yes, Microsoft has done *some* nice things with Windows. Having a browser at your beck and call whenever you need one is a *feature*, not a hindrance.
People also seem to forget that SGI had a web-enabled desktop in IRIX before Microsoft was able to embed IE in Explorer. Perhaps it was Microsoft making Windows more like IRIX.
The simple fact is that it is natural evolution. If SGI hadn't done it first, Microsoft would have. If Microsoft hadn't, perhaps GNOME would have. No matter who did it "first", the point is, someone would have done it, and it's a benefit to mankind, regardless of its inventor.
There are *no* disadvantages to having a web browser embedded in your desktop (at least, not in GNOME--having Explorer crash when you view a Java page is not a Good Thing, but that's Microsoft's fault.) If you don't want to use it, don't navigate to an HTTP address. There, now you don't even know it's there. "Bloat" you say? Get more RAM. The 80s are gone, and so is the 640k limit. A 128M PC100 DIMM is currently ~$80 on PriceWatch, so there's no excuse for not having enough RAM to support the needs of modern software.
Saying adding a browser to GNOME is making is MORE like Windows is like saying that adding wheels to a wheelbarrow is making it MORE like a car, in some derrogatory sense. Bullsh*t. It rolls, now, and helps you get your work done faster. You can carry your boulders all day, for all I care, but I want to wheel mine, thank you. I have better things to do with the time I save.
The 300A is, by far, the most overclockable
Celeron in existance. Their production has,
however, been discontinued, as I understand it.
If you can still get your hands on 300As for a
reasonable price, you can't go wrong.
I have read many reports of people trying to OC
the 333, and while some have had success, it's
always been at unorthodox FSB speeds (like 83mhz),
which can cause disk corruption and so forth.
Running at a "supported" FSB, 66mhz or 100mhz,
is recommended, and the 300A does this quite
well.
Forgot to mention the fact that my Celerons are
the OEM version (not boxed, and without fan.) Any
claims that the retail versions are of higher
quality may or may not be true, but I've had no
problems with my OEMs (and, I got to pick my own
heatsink, resulting in better cooling.)
Most of the discussion I've read leads me to
believe the quality of the OEM and Retail Celerons
are the same, with respect to overclocking. YMMV.
I recently put together a new machine to use as my Linux development box at home. Here are the components I got:
:)
:)
Asus P2B-D (BIOS rev. 1008)
Celeron 300A (SL36A) (x2)
MSI MS-6905 1.0 Slotket (x2)
(modified by ComputerNerd for SMP and 2.2v)
PC Power & Cooling CPU Cool Z1-C CPU Cooler (x2)
(These are the perfect size for mounting on the
slotket, and are 1" high, which leaves just
enough space between the CPUs on the Asus
board.)
IBM DTTA-101440 14gig Ultra/ATA HDD
Asus 50x CD-ROM
Matrox Millenium G200 8MB SGRAM
Intel EtherExpress 10/100+
384MB CAS-2 PC100 Micron SDRAM (128x3)
PC Power & Cooling Personal Tower Case
PC Power & Cooling TurboCool 300 ATX Power Supply
Happy Hacker Keyboard
We put it all together, turned it on (at 66mhz
FSB, 300mhz CPUs) and installed Debian GNU/Linux.
Shut it down, jumpered the motherboard to 100mhz
FSB, 450mhz CPUs, turned it back on and it has
(knock on wood) ran flawlessly for the last week
or two (with lots of compiling, Quake 3 Arena,
and so on, so it's definitely been getting beat
on.)
Overall, I paid about $1500-1600 for the system
(sans monitor), and can say I am _extremely_
happy with its performance. 900mhz of SMP love,
running Linux no less.
(I can serve web pages AND play Quake 3 Arena at
the same time, without losing a frame! Imagine
that!)
Xar
This is NOT meant as a troll.
/etc/apt/sources.list, fire up dselect or apt, and then use my new software (which, btw, has just been installed into my menu for KDE in X, automatically.)
/dev/null. I just dig Debian, and felt the Debian team deserved a pat on the back. :) Good job, guys (and gals!)
I am a long-time RedHat user who, while waiting for 6.0, ended up trying out Debian. Though it required a _tad_ more work to get up and running properly, I must say that I now have an incredible system. dselect and apt are wonderful, and allow me to add and remove software extremely easily. The days of searching the net for lone RPMs are gone; now, I simply add one line to
If the mirrors are too busy, you might want to give Debian a try. I didn't think I'd be that impressed, but I was wrong; I dig it.
RedHat is still good. I am not saying it sucks; all flames to
Thank you, but I know, and used, the preview feature. In my browser it looks just fine. :)
If you think one lousy manual for a free software program does more for the community than the attention garnered by Katz's writing, you are a moron.
Try understand how the world works before you make yourself look stupid, again.
Nuff said.