Actually, having multiple disks didn't really bother me so much in Final Fantasy VIII. But in VIII, the discs were used pretty much sequentially. When you were finished with one, you wouldn't need it a second time around. But if a game required constant switching back and forth between disks, that could get real annoying real fast.
I'm a gamer and I have a degree in computer science and a job working for Bechtel. In fact, gaming is the reason I obtained a degree in C.S. I think the biggest issue I have, however, is that you're criticizing gamers in a gamer's forum. Sad that you sink so low for attention.
The problem with Uwe is that he starts out with good (or at least decent) games and turns into crappy movies. He ought to make a movie version of Big Rigs. How could he go wrong?
I don't understand your point. There IS a ratings system in place. It's called the ESRB. Nobody has a problem with there being a ratings system. The question is should that rating system be regulated and mandated by the U.S. government? Currently, there is no similar government mandation that I am aware of in reference to the movie industry or the music industry. Such government intrusion would be unprecidented.
Well, I feel the need to clarify a bit. Banning porn IS a violation of the constitution. That's why it's not banned. It's just illegal for people under a certain age to purchase it. That's not a ban like, say, what England is doing to Manhunt 2. That particular ban actually makes it illegal for any store to sell it to anyone of any age. That's a ban.
I'm in the minority here. I actually WANT children to be prevented from buying M-rated games by any means necessary. I'm tired of getting my ass handed to me by six year olds. For god's sake, go finger-paint.
okay, who had 7? who bet on 7? 7 posts before someone attempted to turn this topic into a PC vs. Xbox360 fanboy flame ware. If you had seven, come on down and claim your prize.
"Very few if any games sell out anywhere, let alone everywhere."
Several times in my life I've gone to a store and the game I was looking for was sold out. So don't tell me it doesn't happen. Yeah, if I was in the mood to drive to a dozen other stores I might have found it, but I'm rarely in such a mood. With a preorder, I don't have to.
"Preordering is simply a ploy for Gamestop and other stores to lock you into a sale."
Of course preordering is beneficial to GameStop. If it wasn't, they wouldn't do it. But many marketing tactics are beneficial to both the consumer and the retailer. It's not a mutually exclusive relationship.
"Why not just order it online a few days before release if you want the game?"
How is this any different then a preorder? Except now, I'd have to pay extra for shipping and wait longer to receive it. I have a better idea, why not just pay five bucks to preorder the game and pick it up on the way home from work.
"Or wait a few days for the hype to clear and the reviews to appear to tell you if you're making a good buy?"
Yeah, cause the reviewers are always right. Personally, I think I'm a better judge at knowing whether or not I'm going to enjoy a game. There are more than enough ways to research a game to assure a purchase is a wise decision. I play a demo, play a previous game in the series, play the beta, or at the very least read the previews. In the case of Halo 3, I've done three out of the four.
Frankly, I still don't understand your disdain for the concept of preording. You seem to be grasping on to some fairly weak points to make your argument valid. The fact is I've been purchasing games for a very long time, probably longer than you have, and I've had nothing but praise for the convenience preorders insure. If it's not for you, then more power to you, but really, there's no reason to hate the concept so much.
Hey Chosen, I like your post and I think it's a shame it hasn't been modded up, but I do have a few issues with it that I'd like to point out. First, stating "I'm not calling fans of Halo a bunch of sheep" is kind of a passive-aggressive way to call us sheep. But that's okay, because you're kind of right. I don't consider Halo 2 to be the best FPS ever. In fact, with all the bugs I wouldn't even call it very polished. However, it IS the most fun FPS I've ever played, and a lot of that has to do with it's "sheepiness". Halo 2 was NOT the first console game I was ever interested in playing other people with, but it was the first console game where millions of other people seemed interested in playing with me. I remember how much I loved Perfect Dark on the N64 and all I wanted to do was play it in multi-player with other people, but my friends weren't as interested in it as I was. We played a few times, but they never really saw it's potential. Halo 2 has a robust (if somewhat flawed) online multi-player system, and unlike games like counter-strike (also a great game), it is very easy for the average player to pick up and play. I think Halo's strengths come from its sheep-inducing qualities, and I don't really think of that as a bad thing. I love having other sheep to shoot at.
I really don't understand all this hostility towards pre-orders. There's absolutely no reason for it. If you choose not to pre-order a game, then more power to you. That's totally your decision and you'll probably live comfortably with it. But why care if I choose to give myself a little assurance. It took me two weeks to obtain a copy of GTA:VC when it first came out. I wasn't looking incredibly hard for it, but I stopped by a GameStop that was on my way home from work a few times and it wasn't in for two weeks. It's an annoyance I haven't had to deal with since I started pre-ordering games.
Now, you may be right. Maybe they'll be more than enough copies for everyone and we can all hold hands and live in harmony. I love the thought of such a perfect world. But if in the slightest of chances the game becomes a rarity, I'll be glad that I coughed up the measly five bucks to get the pre-order. Why is there such a problem with this concept here on/.? Are we really so cheap?
Wow. Angry much, Jeremy? You need to settle down kid. While you're right, life isn't empty when conveniences are forgone, that doesn't mean I shouldn't take advantage of the opportunities that present themselves, and doing so certainly shouldn't classify me as "consumer whore", as you so elegantly put it. For example, I wouldn't call you a consumer whore just because you stood in line over night to pick up the latest edition of Harry Potter. Kid's like you love that kind of crap, and who am I to judge? I simply enjoy being able to pick up a game (or book, or movie, or whatever else) on my first trip to the store. If something prevents that, it's a mild inconvenience, but it's inconvenient all the same. I enjoy pre-orders not because I have some compulsive need to obtain all my games the day they come out, I just enjoy the handiness of it. I'm sure someone like you is above all of these petty conveniences. You probably still use an outhouse and consider electricity to be the tool of the devil. I respect your hillbilly ways, so maybe you should respect mine. Now go skin that possum, Mama's hungry.
What happens at wal-mart when a good game comes out? would you like to know? Cause I have the answer. It's happened to me several times. I'll tell you because your probably in suspense. When a good game comes to wal-mart, I stop by wal-mart after work to pick up a copy and all the copies are sold out. Yep, by 5:30 in the afternoon they're all sold out. So what have I been doing lately? I buy a pre-order from Gamestop instead and I'm able to stop by the store on my way home from work and pick it up. I can even stop to get a bite to eat without having to worry that I've missed out on the single last copy of the game. It's very convenient.
But I could see how you'd be upset. I mean, why reward someone for planning in advance? Everyone knows than an angry midnight line, getting shot over a PlayStation is the way to go.
Yeah, but that's the point. Let me draw the analogy if I can.
Pornographic movies are a subset of a larger movie industry. The government, at least on a state level, has for years regulated the sale of pornographic movies to minors even though it doesn't do it on a industry wide basis.
AO rated games are a subset of a larger game industry. So why is it unconstitutional for state governments to regulate the sell of AO rated games to minors when regulating only AO rated games would not be an industry wide regulation.
Now I realize that most of these proposed laws apply to M rated games, which are more analogous to R rated movies, but that point still doesn't address the legality of regulating M rated games. I'm not saying that its right, but legal and right are two entirely separate concepts.
What about porn, though? Isn't the sale of pornography to minors regulated by some states? I'm not asking this as a point, I really just don't know how all this works.
First off, I just have to say before I say anything else is that I'm not a fanboy. I LOVED my PlayStation2 and I continue to hope that the PS3 eventually gets its act together and brings back the glory days of the last generation.
That said, for those of you who say this hurts the XBOX360 more than the PS3, I couldn't disagree with you more. This coming holiday season is a very important time for the two systems. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this holiday season is important enough to finally give one of the two systems a significant share of the market over the other. That's how important I consider it to be.
With that being said, an important part of any holiday season is to have an established killer app to push consoles. Xbox already has one. The PlayStation doesn't. While the previous score of- Xbox, 2 killer apps, PlayStation, 1, already seemed to tip the tide in Microsoft's favor, a score of 1-0 would be devastating. Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that there aren't games coming out for the PlayStation that could be good and could eventually become killer apps, but "eventually" isn't going to sell consoles in this all important season.
Now for the exclusive content. GTA4 will eventually come out, and the exclusive content will probably still be there. If Microsoft gains a significant portion of the console market this holiday season, then the affects of the exclusive content in GTA4 could be even greater then they would have been if the game had been released this season. In a way, this delay could actually help MS more that hurt it in the long run.
See, I have to really disagree with this one. Sure, Microsoft has exclusive content, but I don't know that it really matters. First, Microsoft already has a recognizable killer App coming out at the end of September. Grand Theft Auto, as another killer app, would probably be competing with Halo more than complimenting it. And face it, when people say Grand Theft Auto, they think PlayStation. The two were so connected for so long that anyone thinking of playing Grand Theft Auto without a console to support it would probably go instinctively to the PlayStation.
But more importantly then all this is the long term. If Microsoft manages to gain a greater install base during this upcoming holiday season, then that will simply convince more people to buy GTA for the Xbox360 with its exclusive content, instead of the PlayStation version when GTA4 eventually does come out. Ironically, I see this delay as being very beneficial to Microsoft.
First, I still don't understand why the "game" portion of a game cannot be considered art. Even if you take Ebert's particularly narrow definition of what art is, that art requires authorial control, I'd still be able to classify a game as art.
Art can be the culmination of other art forms. Your only claim to your statement that a game like ff6 is not art is, obviously, because of the game play elements. So in your mind, the "battles", as you state it, are not art. I assume you make this assumption for the same reason as Mr. Ebert, that a battle does not contain authorial control. Well, doesn't it? In a battle, aren't the game designers the ones who created the game play? While you have to interact with it, you're still constricted to the type of movements that the designers laid out for you, or allowed you to discover in a previous scenario. While it may be interactive, it's still very much influenced by the type of experience the game developers wanted you to have. Why it may not be the same exact experience for every player, it is most likely very similar.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there is indeed quite a bit of authorial control in game play. Game play is designed to invoke an emotional response, same as the music, scenery or story that accompanies it. There is a certain amount of artistic quality to game play that, when combined with "classic" artworks, can create a rich artistic experience that I believe can be classified as great art.
You were gonna buy the console, buy the game, and pay for the online service JUST to be able to play the game co-op single player with your friend?... You sure you're just friends?
You write software so your users can use it, and write manuals so your users will stop bitching? That's great! I wish my users were that forgiving. I wish I could write all kinds of broken functionality into my applications, then kiss and make up with a thick, worded manual. My users tend to demand a well written, functional piece of software. What whores.
Extraordinarily negative? Amongst who? You're inner circle of friends? Don't you think 'extraordinarily negative' might me exaggerating a bit? I've read dozens of articles across dozens of publications, and I never got that impression. Maybe I don't spend all my time reading the posts of the "Gamer Elitists" here at Slashdot, but I haven't gotten much of an "extraordinarily negative" feeling from any forum I've been to, except for the occasional Nintendo/PS fanboy. In fact, most of the 700,000! people who played the beta who've posted their opinions had a fairly positive outlook on the game, and that was just a beta. It's ignorant, unfounded statements like "extraordinarily negative" that really annoy me. Did you play the beta? I did. And if you're willing to bet that Halo3 isn't going to be the bestselling game on the 360 for this year, and probably the next, then I'd gladly take that bet. Even if it doesn't make as much as halo 2, it's still gonna clean up.
Future reference, try to keep your ignorance at bay.
Actually, a lot of the music in GTA3 was taken from Scarface. Most of it wasn't made up. And can you actually tell me you didn't like the music of GTA:VC. To date, one of the best soundtracks to any game I've played.
Slashdot Mirror
Actually, having multiple disks didn't really bother me so much in Final Fantasy VIII. But in VIII, the discs were used pretty much sequentially. When you were finished with one, you wouldn't need it a second time around. But if a game required constant switching back and forth between disks, that could get real annoying real fast.
I play it with a dog.
I'm a gamer and I have a degree in computer science and a job working for Bechtel. In fact, gaming is the reason I obtained a degree in C.S. I think the biggest issue I have, however, is that you're criticizing gamers in a gamer's forum. Sad that you sink so low for attention.
cloning corridors is an abomination of God's will. Sinners.
The problem with Uwe is that he starts out with good (or at least decent) games and turns into crappy movies. He ought to make a movie version of Big Rigs. How could he go wrong?
I don't understand your point. There IS a ratings system in place. It's called the ESRB. Nobody has a problem with there being a ratings system. The question is should that rating system be regulated and mandated by the U.S. government? Currently, there is no similar government mandation that I am aware of in reference to the movie industry or the music industry. Such government intrusion would be unprecidented.
Well, I feel the need to clarify a bit. Banning porn IS a violation of the constitution. That's why it's not banned. It's just illegal for people under a certain age to purchase it. That's not a ban like, say, what England is doing to Manhunt 2. That particular ban actually makes it illegal for any store to sell it to anyone of any age. That's a ban.
I'm in the minority here. I actually WANT children to be prevented from buying M-rated games by any means necessary. I'm tired of getting my ass handed to me by six year olds. For god's sake, go finger-paint.
okay, who had 7? who bet on 7? 7 posts before someone attempted to turn this topic into a PC vs. Xbox360 fanboy flame ware. If you had seven, come on down and claim your prize.
All right, let's break it down.
"Very few if any games sell out anywhere, let alone everywhere."
Several times in my life I've gone to a store and the game I was looking for was sold out. So don't tell me it doesn't happen. Yeah, if I was in the mood to drive to a dozen other stores I might have found it, but I'm rarely in such a mood. With a preorder, I don't have to.
"Preordering is simply a ploy for Gamestop and other stores to lock you into a sale."
Of course preordering is beneficial to GameStop. If it wasn't, they wouldn't do it. But many marketing tactics are beneficial to both the consumer and the retailer. It's not a mutually exclusive relationship.
"Why not just order it online a few days before release if you want the game?"
How is this any different then a preorder? Except now, I'd have to pay extra for shipping and wait longer to receive it. I have a better idea, why not just pay five bucks to preorder the game and pick it up on the way home from work.
"Or wait a few days for the hype to clear and the reviews to appear to tell you if you're making a good buy?"
Yeah, cause the reviewers are always right. Personally, I think I'm a better judge at knowing whether or not I'm going to enjoy a game. There are more than enough ways to research a game to assure a purchase is a wise decision. I play a demo, play a previous game in the series, play the beta, or at the very least read the previews. In the case of Halo 3, I've done three out of the four.
Frankly, I still don't understand your disdain for the concept of preording. You seem to be grasping on to some fairly weak points to make your argument valid. The fact is I've been purchasing games for a very long time, probably longer than you have, and I've had nothing but praise for the convenience preorders insure. If it's not for you, then more power to you, but really, there's no reason to hate the concept so much.
Hey Chosen, I like your post and I think it's a shame it hasn't been modded up, but I do have a few issues with it that I'd like to point out. First, stating "I'm not calling fans of Halo a bunch of sheep" is kind of a passive-aggressive way to call us sheep. But that's okay, because you're kind of right. I don't consider Halo 2 to be the best FPS ever. In fact, with all the bugs I wouldn't even call it very polished. However, it IS the most fun FPS I've ever played, and a lot of that has to do with it's "sheepiness". Halo 2 was NOT the first console game I was ever interested in playing other people with, but it was the first console game where millions of other people seemed interested in playing with me. I remember how much I loved Perfect Dark on the N64 and all I wanted to do was play it in multi-player with other people, but my friends weren't as interested in it as I was. We played a few times, but they never really saw it's potential. Halo 2 has a robust (if somewhat flawed) online multi-player system, and unlike games like counter-strike (also a great game), it is very easy for the average player to pick up and play. I think Halo's strengths come from its sheep-inducing qualities, and I don't really think of that as a bad thing. I love having other sheep to shoot at.
I really don't understand all this hostility towards pre-orders. There's absolutely no reason for it. If you choose not to pre-order a game, then more power to you. That's totally your decision and you'll probably live comfortably with it. But why care if I choose to give myself a little assurance. It took me two weeks to obtain a copy of GTA:VC when it first came out. I wasn't looking incredibly hard for it, but I stopped by a GameStop that was on my way home from work a few times and it wasn't in for two weeks. It's an annoyance I haven't had to deal with since I started pre-ordering games.
/.? Are we really so cheap?
Now, you may be right. Maybe they'll be more than enough copies for everyone and we can all hold hands and live in harmony. I love the thought of such a perfect world. But if in the slightest of chances the game becomes a rarity, I'll be glad that I coughed up the measly five bucks to get the pre-order. Why is there such a problem with this concept here on
Wow. Angry much, Jeremy? You need to settle down kid. While you're right, life isn't empty when conveniences are forgone, that doesn't mean I shouldn't take advantage of the opportunities that present themselves, and doing so certainly shouldn't classify me as "consumer whore", as you so elegantly put it. For example, I wouldn't call you a consumer whore just because you stood in line over night to pick up the latest edition of Harry Potter. Kid's like you love that kind of crap, and who am I to judge? I simply enjoy being able to pick up a game (or book, or movie, or whatever else) on my first trip to the store. If something prevents that, it's a mild inconvenience, but it's inconvenient all the same. I enjoy pre-orders not because I have some compulsive need to obtain all my games the day they come out, I just enjoy the handiness of it. I'm sure someone like you is above all of these petty conveniences. You probably still use an outhouse and consider electricity to be the tool of the devil. I respect your hillbilly ways, so maybe you should respect mine. Now go skin that possum, Mama's hungry.
What happens at wal-mart when a good game comes out? would you like to know? Cause I have the answer. It's happened to me several times. I'll tell you because your probably in suspense. When a good game comes to wal-mart, I stop by wal-mart after work to pick up a copy and all the copies are sold out. Yep, by 5:30 in the afternoon they're all sold out. So what have I been doing lately? I buy a pre-order from Gamestop instead and I'm able to stop by the store on my way home from work and pick it up. I can even stop to get a bite to eat without having to worry that I've missed out on the single last copy of the game. It's very convenient. But I could see how you'd be upset. I mean, why reward someone for planning in advance? Everyone knows than an angry midnight line, getting shot over a PlayStation is the way to go.
Yeah, but that's the point. Let me draw the analogy if I can. Pornographic movies are a subset of a larger movie industry. The government, at least on a state level, has for years regulated the sale of pornographic movies to minors even though it doesn't do it on a industry wide basis. AO rated games are a subset of a larger game industry. So why is it unconstitutional for state governments to regulate the sell of AO rated games to minors when regulating only AO rated games would not be an industry wide regulation. Now I realize that most of these proposed laws apply to M rated games, which are more analogous to R rated movies, but that point still doesn't address the legality of regulating M rated games. I'm not saying that its right, but legal and right are two entirely separate concepts.
What about porn, though? Isn't the sale of pornography to minors regulated by some states? I'm not asking this as a point, I really just don't know how all this works.
First off, I just have to say before I say anything else is that I'm not a fanboy. I LOVED my PlayStation2 and I continue to hope that the PS3 eventually gets its act together and brings back the glory days of the last generation.
That said, for those of you who say this hurts the XBOX360 more than the PS3, I couldn't disagree with you more. This coming holiday season is a very important time for the two systems. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this holiday season is important enough to finally give one of the two systems a significant share of the market over the other. That's how important I consider it to be.
With that being said, an important part of any holiday season is to have an established killer app to push consoles. Xbox already has one. The PlayStation doesn't. While the previous score of- Xbox, 2 killer apps, PlayStation, 1, already seemed to tip the tide in Microsoft's favor, a score of 1-0 would be devastating. Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that there aren't games coming out for the PlayStation that could be good and could eventually become killer apps, but "eventually" isn't going to sell consoles in this all important season.
Now for the exclusive content. GTA4 will eventually come out, and the exclusive content will probably still be there. If Microsoft gains a significant portion of the console market this holiday season, then the affects of the exclusive content in GTA4 could be even greater then they would have been if the game had been released this season. In a way, this delay could actually help MS more that hurt it in the long run.
See, I have to really disagree with this one. Sure, Microsoft has exclusive content, but I don't know that it really matters. First, Microsoft already has a recognizable killer App coming out at the end of September. Grand Theft Auto, as another killer app, would probably be competing with Halo more than complimenting it. And face it, when people say Grand Theft Auto, they think PlayStation. The two were so connected for so long that anyone thinking of playing Grand Theft Auto without a console to support it would probably go instinctively to the PlayStation. But more importantly then all this is the long term. If Microsoft manages to gain a greater install base during this upcoming holiday season, then that will simply convince more people to buy GTA for the Xbox360 with its exclusive content, instead of the PlayStation version when GTA4 eventually does come out. Ironically, I see this delay as being very beneficial to Microsoft.
Oops! My above remark was meant to be a reply to "Re:Interactivity and Art" posted by Anonymous Coward. Sorry.
First, I still don't understand why the "game" portion of a game cannot be considered art. Even if you take Ebert's particularly narrow definition of what art is, that art requires authorial control, I'd still be able to classify a game as art. Art can be the culmination of other art forms. Your only claim to your statement that a game like ff6 is not art is, obviously, because of the game play elements. So in your mind, the "battles", as you state it, are not art. I assume you make this assumption for the same reason as Mr. Ebert, that a battle does not contain authorial control. Well, doesn't it? In a battle, aren't the game designers the ones who created the game play? While you have to interact with it, you're still constricted to the type of movements that the designers laid out for you, or allowed you to discover in a previous scenario. While it may be interactive, it's still very much influenced by the type of experience the game developers wanted you to have. Why it may not be the same exact experience for every player, it is most likely very similar. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there is indeed quite a bit of authorial control in game play. Game play is designed to invoke an emotional response, same as the music, scenery or story that accompanies it. There is a certain amount of artistic quality to game play that, when combined with "classic" artworks, can create a rich artistic experience that I believe can be classified as great art.
You were gonna buy the console, buy the game, and pay for the online service JUST to be able to play the game co-op single player with your friend?... You sure you're just friends?
You write software so your users can use it, and write manuals so your users will stop bitching? That's great! I wish my users were that forgiving. I wish I could write all kinds of broken functionality into my applications, then kiss and make up with a thick, worded manual. My users tend to demand a well written, functional piece of software. What whores.
Extraordinarily negative? Amongst who? You're inner circle of friends? Don't you think 'extraordinarily negative' might me exaggerating a bit? I've read dozens of articles across dozens of publications, and I never got that impression. Maybe I don't spend all my time reading the posts of the "Gamer Elitists" here at Slashdot, but I haven't gotten much of an "extraordinarily negative" feeling from any forum I've been to, except for the occasional Nintendo/PS fanboy. In fact, most of the 700,000! people who played the beta who've posted their opinions had a fairly positive outlook on the game, and that was just a beta. It's ignorant, unfounded statements like "extraordinarily negative" that really annoy me. Did you play the beta? I did. And if you're willing to bet that Halo3 isn't going to be the bestselling game on the 360 for this year, and probably the next, then I'd gladly take that bet. Even if it doesn't make as much as halo 2, it's still gonna clean up. Future reference, try to keep your ignorance at bay.
Actually, a lot of the music in GTA3 was taken from Scarface. Most of it wasn't made up. And can you actually tell me you didn't like the music of GTA:VC. To date, one of the best soundtracks to any game I've played.