I splurged 12 years ago on a $2500 pc and used it until I upgraded five years ago to a then two year old desktop. The new machine was being scrapped out because the heatsink mounts broke and it would overheat. Easy repair. Used this machine until a month ago. The replacement is a free Xeon Quad-core with a failed HDD - easily repaired and has provided great uptime.
Of course, I squeeze a lot more useful work out of these machines because they run Linux, without cycle-sapping anti-virus programs.
I think AMD and Intel only participated in the "Mhz is everything" game, by the time they got to Ghz then they were convincing us of energy consumption (heat) per cycle and other mysterious measurments.
Get an old Pentium2 motherboard (I use a 233Mhz one) and run a copy of FreeNAS on a CDROM with floppy data disk (or really small usb flash drive and floppy boot to it).
P1's didn't have the ability to spin down HDDs. P3's,P4's+ consume more power just to keep on.
Use a kill-a-watt meter during setup and education stage to see how you're doing. Set FreeNAS to maximize energy savings and spin-down.
Remove everything you don't need (sound card, USB port cards, extra CDRom's, if you're brave you can pull the video card after initial install and keep it nearby for later repairs/upgrades). Arrange cables for maximum airflow to keep heat down, vacuum out the case, store the machine in a cool-dark location (maybe off the concrete floor in the basement to minimize dust uptake).
I've seen idle pc's like this sit with only 15-25Watts consumption. Don't worry about the power supply 'rated size' - that's just the maximum load it can supply when the thing is packed. Some of the 'green' HDDs work pretty well at minimizing energy consumption.
realistically, unless someone is P2P (FreeNAS has built-in module for that now) or watching a movie, the machine will go to sleep when you're sleeping and at work all day.
you'll get killed by the existing commercial consumer offerings. As the TB go up, the drive costs go up and overwhelm the economics of the base unit, and you're not buying a shipping container full of TB HDD's. You'll want some compensation/profit for doing it and it quickly becomes hard for people to purchase from you.
What is the pricing sweet-spot? $100, $500, $1000? What works for many here is they take an old box they are not using (free), load FreeNAS on it (free), and buy a couple of drives from the local electronics retailer (relatively minimal cost but not different than you can get them). The cost are the drives and some time. Those without the skills tend to just buy multiple external USB HDDs.
If you don't have your own old box.. ask friends and neighbors (pull the HDD out for them - tell them to put it in external usb housing and use).
You want a 1998 Pentium-2 or newer (epa energy star really started then, so drives can be spun-down). Those guys with P4 or quad-cores are just wasting energy for a home NAS box (you're not hosting a slashdotted site are you?). If you can't find in your normal network of friends, search craigslist and ebay. I've sold these for $25-$50, and pack and ship inexpensive - it works out great. Or buy this era motherboard and install in an even older or newer empty case.
The main use for a usb stick on freenas is to store the OS.. which last one I did like that was 128MB flash drive. Old pentium-2 computer from 1998, floppy disk to boot into the USB, then all the drive bays open. Add some PCI cards for additional spaces.
My last hardware build a month back was taking an old P1-100Mhz tower case (one of those with the huge number of bays), pulled the motherboard and put in a P2-400Mhz motherboard like this.
Somewhere on the net was a guy that used stacks of usb hubs fully populated with usb flash drives. Must have had 80 usb drives attached. Raid system set up. Proof of concept.
Cool like the guy with a dozen node Beowulf cluster in a plastic toolbox.
You forget that Microsoft benefits from the virus problem:
1- you install anti-virus software and your machine slows down. You want faster software so you buy a new PC with new windows.. MS gets cash.
2- virus kills your copy of windows. you buy new windows to reinstall.. MS gets cash.
3- virus spams all your friends via email.. MS gets cash - from all of them.
4- virus grabs your credit card - automatically purchases new copy of Windows.. MS gets cash!
So that virus problem that Windows has is really a feature in disguise.. MS gets cash.
While I dislike Macs and Jobs, I do see their draw to many non-technical users. Always has been that way when Jobs was there. He has been great at selling the Apple brand and any products attached to it.
Part of their success is because of the lock-down. Known hardware and planned for idiosyncrasies to code into the OS. Windows is a mess of inconsistencies as it gets thrown on random hardware, and they must maintain their backward compatibility - so they have a challenge. Linux is thrown on that same hardware base but has a more stable core. Linux has a lot of opportunity still - catch up to Apple ease-of-use for the common computer user and it's UI consistency, work on a menagerie of hardware like Windows, and be pretty yet configurable. It's getting close, very close. While Windows and Max OS take 3-5 years to birth a new version, Linux outfits like Ubuntu are pumping out continuous improvements every six months.
Won't matter for either Intel or AMD what they do, until they rework their marketing and naming programs. Average consumers don't know what i5 or i7 or athlon or duron or celeron means. Back in the days that clock-speed was it, people could grade their purchase "I'll pay 20% more for a machine that has 20% more cpu speed/performance". Too hard to tell. And cpu performance is beyond what most people need (email, checkbook spreadsheet, surfing) - so they shop (and are sold) pc's based on price, OEM computer brand name, and HDD storage size.
It wouldn't have to be clockspeed - but it has to be something related to performance.
Then they have to educate the retail outlets on how to market the technology cleanly and clearly - they will sell more.
Agree. Build enough machines and you see that cache trumps raw clock cycle by a lot.
That's also what Intel did with Pentium vs Celeron.. same basic clock speeds but Pentium had 2x the cache - and performed much better.
A 2.0Ghz Pentium could easily beat a 2.8Ghz Celeron in one rig I was testing for an FEA workhorse a while back.
I had one guy I worked with in the early 90's go around the office and ask everyone what they made when they first hired in and the year. Most were proud of how little they got '20 years ago when I started here'.
Then he'd ask them if the number on his spreadsheet was close to what they made today. Jaws would drop - it was always so close. It was funny but instructive. The company (most large corps are this way) would give existing employees a standard 'performance variable' increase, more standard than performance based. Meanwhile the outside world was seeing real wage inflation. So to get new hires out of college it would cost 15% more than a five-year experienced current employee.
Between that and seeing all the 52-year olds getting early retirement 'packages' - I knew then not to try keeping the 30 year career with one company route. So I took the path of more adventure and changed jobs every five years (two as noted in the prior post seems a bit too short).
The key though is to keep your expenses low early on - so you can have a cushion and an FU account built up.
Engineering was held in much higher social regard then than now. Which is surprising given that today's world depends so much more on engineering and science than the 1800s.
China recently sold a boat load of Treasury bonds.... and the buyer happens to be Japan. Real money. Not piddly TARP funds. Now isn't that timing interesting? How much leverage can be obtained by calling in debt? Or quietly reminding who holds the debt?
GM has been converted. They were already building excellent products and nicely styled, finally. With very little debt now, they will be doing well as the economy recovers and pent up demand hits the streets. Demand is about product.
Some of these processes are difficult to sell to a concerned public... vast leaching fields - piles of dirt with traces of what you want in them, and then lawn sprinklers to spread sulfuric acid all over the pile and let it drain and wash out the desired minerals. Acres. Hazardous chemicals. Misting lawn sprinklers. Yum... fun stuff.
Ford sold a lot of Model-T's when the other option was a horse. Cheaper and more convenient. Now people can't give CRTs away for free on Craigslist even.
It doesn't cost much more to make a Cadillac than a Chevy, or a Macbook than a Dell - but somehow people demand them and are willing to pay extra.Extra cost for Branding.
Does Blue-ray give that much better of a picture than standard DVD? How much extra will you pay for that improvement? Extra Cost for utility.
One person might think it's worth $1000 more than the standard DVD, while more will think it's only worth $300 and wait a few years (I think it's only worth about $10 and get by with DVD). VHS used to be sold as $1000 machines too.
What's the next 'color' for DVD players? Plaid? I'll bet that will be $1000 for the first adopters.
How long before the checking servers are compromised and trojans are installed on all the paying customers that use DRM? Wait until word of that gets out among the user base. Even rumor and fear will work this angle.
Serious players will buy a game and play, but if there are DRM and related hassles then many will just go elsewhere.
There is also such a thing as Piracy helping expand sales - if everyone is playing a great game then they will tell friends and the network expands, some new Pirates but also new paying customers.
This is actually how Microsoft got such a hold on the market - easy to Pirate and spread, become the standard. Only now they are increasing the 'DRM'ness of their OS and people go the Linux route.
"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." - Leia
two kids 6 and 3 run Ubuntu exclusively. Games and some media applications on Linux itself and on the web via Firefox. Tough for a Windows machine to keep up with them - I have to only install new software for them from time to time that they want to try out (movie making, etc). No maintenance.
Gave up on the luddite wife.. remote server access for her work is Windows Server and they just upgraded to 2008 that checks not only browser but OS level to not allow log in. She didn't want to deal with any work-around "I don't have time for that". Now, anything happens in Windows (crashes, etc that happen frequently and "no time for this either") and I say, "I don't know how to fix that". "You want me to install Linux on there?".
I've known people to use OO to convert documents between different revisions of MSOffice - since MSOffice had some poor document upgrade tools (partly on purpose - to force upgrading).
Slashdot Mirror
I splurged 12 years ago on a $2500 pc and used it until I upgraded five years ago to a then two year old desktop. The new machine was being scrapped out because the heatsink mounts broke and it would overheat. Easy repair. Used this machine until a month ago. The replacement is a free Xeon Quad-core with a failed HDD - easily repaired and has provided great uptime.
Of course, I squeeze a lot more useful work out of these machines because they run Linux, without cycle-sapping anti-virus programs.
o
I think AMD and Intel only participated in the "Mhz is everything" game, by the time they got to Ghz then they were convincing us of energy consumption (heat) per cycle and other mysterious measurments.
put enough monkeys on typewriters and you'll get shakespeare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem_in_popular_culture)
And someone started such a simulator : http://everything2.com/title/Monkey+Shakespeare+Simulator That's what you use this for. And Pr0n.
Get an old Pentium2 motherboard (I use a 233Mhz one) and run a copy of FreeNAS on a CDROM with floppy data disk (or really small usb flash drive and floppy boot to it).
P1's didn't have the ability to spin down HDDs. P3's,P4's+ consume more power just to keep on.
Use a kill-a-watt meter during setup and education stage to see how you're doing. Set FreeNAS to maximize energy savings and spin-down.
Remove everything you don't need (sound card, USB port cards, extra CDRom's, if you're brave you can pull the video card after initial install and keep it nearby for later repairs/upgrades). Arrange cables for maximum airflow to keep heat down, vacuum out the case, store the machine in a cool-dark location (maybe off the concrete floor in the basement to minimize dust uptake).
I've seen idle pc's like this sit with only 15-25Watts consumption. Don't worry about the power supply 'rated size' - that's just the maximum load it can supply when the thing is packed. Some of the 'green' HDDs work pretty well at minimizing energy consumption.
realistically, unless someone is P2P (FreeNAS has built-in module for that now) or watching a movie, the machine will go to sleep when you're sleeping and at work all day.
.
you'll get killed by the existing commercial consumer offerings. As the TB go up, the drive costs go up and overwhelm the economics of the base unit, and you're not buying a shipping container full of TB HDD's. You'll want some compensation/profit for doing it and it quickly becomes hard for people to purchase from you.
What is the pricing sweet-spot? $100, $500, $1000? What works for many here is they take an old box they are not using (free), load FreeNAS on it (free), and buy a couple of drives from the local electronics retailer (relatively minimal cost but not different than you can get them). The cost are the drives and some time. Those without the skills tend to just buy multiple external USB HDDs.
.
If you don't have your own old box .. ask friends and neighbors (pull the HDD out for them - tell them to put it in external usb housing and use).
You want a 1998 Pentium-2 or newer (epa energy star really started then, so drives can be spun-down). Those guys with P4 or quad-cores are just wasting energy for a home NAS box (you're not hosting a slashdotted site are you?). If you can't find in your normal network of friends, search craigslist and ebay. I've sold these for $25-$50, and pack and ship inexpensive - it works out great. Or buy this era motherboard and install in an even older or newer empty case.
The main use for a usb stick on freenas is to store the OS .. which last one I did like that was 128MB flash drive. Old pentium-2 computer from 1998, floppy disk to boot into the USB, then all the drive bays open. Add some PCI cards for additional spaces.
My last hardware build a month back was taking an old P1-100Mhz tower case (one of those with the huge number of bays), pulled the motherboard and put in a P2-400Mhz motherboard like this.
Somewhere on the net was a guy that used stacks of usb hubs fully populated with usb flash drives. Must have had 80 usb drives attached. Raid system set up. Proof of concept. Cool like the guy with a dozen node Beowulf cluster in a plastic toolbox.
You forget that Microsoft benefits from the virus problem:
.. MS gets cash. .. MS gets cash. .. MS gets cash - from all of them. .. MS gets cash!
.. MS gets cash.
1- you install anti-virus software and your machine slows down. You want faster software so you buy a new PC with new windows
2- virus kills your copy of windows. you buy new windows to reinstall
3- virus spams all your friends via email
4- virus grabs your credit card - automatically purchases new copy of Windows
So that virus problem that Windows has is really a feature in disguise
While I dislike Macs and Jobs, I do see their draw to many non-technical users. Always has been that way when Jobs was there. He has been great at selling the Apple brand and any products attached to it.
Part of their success is because of the lock-down. Known hardware and planned for idiosyncrasies to code into the OS. Windows is a mess of inconsistencies as it gets thrown on random hardware, and they must maintain their backward compatibility - so they have a challenge. Linux is thrown on that same hardware base but has a more stable core. Linux has a lot of opportunity still - catch up to Apple ease-of-use for the common computer user and it's UI consistency, work on a menagerie of hardware like Windows, and be pretty yet configurable. It's getting close, very close. While Windows and Max OS take 3-5 years to birth a new version, Linux outfits like Ubuntu are pumping out continuous improvements every six months.
You probably had $100 in scrap aluminum (high grade casting type) that sits under a pile of dirt now - that might do better as something new.
Won't matter for either Intel or AMD what they do, until they rework their marketing and naming programs. Average consumers don't know what i5 or i7 or athlon or duron or celeron means. Back in the days that clock-speed was it, people could grade their purchase "I'll pay 20% more for a machine that has 20% more cpu speed/performance". Too hard to tell. And cpu performance is beyond what most people need (email, checkbook spreadsheet, surfing) - so they shop (and are sold) pc's based on price, OEM computer brand name, and HDD storage size.
It wouldn't have to be clockspeed - but it has to be something related to performance. Then they have to educate the retail outlets on how to market the technology cleanly and clearly - they will sell more.
Agree. Build enough machines and you see that cache trumps raw clock cycle by a lot. That's also what Intel did with Pentium vs Celeron .. same basic clock speeds but Pentium had 2x the cache - and performed much better.
A 2.0Ghz Pentium could easily beat a 2.8Ghz Celeron in one rig I was testing for an FEA workhorse a while back.
I had one guy I worked with in the early 90's go around the office and ask everyone what they made when they first hired in and the year. Most were proud of how little they got '20 years ago when I started here'.
Then he'd ask them if the number on his spreadsheet was close to what they made today. Jaws would drop - it was always so close. It was funny but instructive. The company (most large corps are this way) would give existing employees a standard 'performance variable' increase, more standard than performance based. Meanwhile the outside world was seeing real wage inflation. So to get new hires out of college it would cost 15% more than a five-year experienced current employee.
Between that and seeing all the 52-year olds getting early retirement 'packages' - I knew then not to try keeping the 30 year career with one company route. So I took the path of more adventure and changed jobs every five years (two as noted in the prior post seems a bit too short).
The key though is to keep your expenses low early on - so you can have a cushion and an FU account built up.
Engineering was held in much higher social regard then than now. Which is surprising given that today's world depends so much more on engineering and science than the 1800s.
btw, your signature line is great.
China recently sold a boat load of Treasury bonds .... and the buyer happens to be Japan. Real money. Not piddly TARP funds. Now isn't that timing interesting? How much leverage can be obtained by calling in debt? Or quietly reminding who holds the debt?
GM has been converted. They were already building excellent products and nicely styled, finally. With very little debt now, they will be doing well as the economy recovers and pent up demand hits the streets. Demand is about product.
Some of these processes are difficult to sell to a concerned public ... vast leaching fields - piles of dirt with traces of what you want in them, and then lawn sprinklers to spread sulfuric acid all over the pile and let it drain and wash out the desired minerals. Acres. Hazardous chemicals. Misting lawn sprinklers. Yum... fun stuff.
Ford sold a lot of Model-T's when the other option was a horse. Cheaper and more convenient. Now people can't give CRTs away for free on Craigslist even.
China won't be inexpensive for long... they have worker shortages in the industrial/manufacturing sector now. Rising wage costs soon.
It's also fun to see SSIDs with "Pirate" or "Hacker" in the names..."There be Monsters this way". It frightens the peasants.
Of course, it's entertaining to deploy some honeypots.
Read up on kismet.
They price at what the market will bear.
It doesn't cost much more to make a Cadillac than a Chevy, or a Macbook than a Dell - but somehow people demand them and are willing to pay extra.Extra cost for Branding.
Does Blue-ray give that much better of a picture than standard DVD? How much extra will you pay for that improvement? Extra Cost for utility.
One person might think it's worth $1000 more than the standard DVD, while more will think it's only worth $300 and wait a few years (I think it's only worth about $10 and get by with DVD). VHS used to be sold as $1000 machines too.
What's the next 'color' for DVD players? Plaid? I'll bet that will be $1000 for the first adopters.
How long before the checking servers are compromised and trojans are installed on all the paying customers that use DRM? Wait until word of that gets out among the user base. Even rumor and fear will work this angle.
Serious players will buy a game and play, but if there are DRM and related hassles then many will just go elsewhere.
There is also such a thing as Piracy helping expand sales - if everyone is playing a great game then they will tell friends and the network expands, some new Pirates but also new paying customers.
This is actually how Microsoft got such a hold on the market - easy to Pirate and spread, become the standard. Only now they are increasing the 'DRM'ness of their OS and people go the Linux route.
"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." - Leia
LOL! That's great! "it's OK if they hide it from those that might be frightened by being too aware of things."
two kids 6 and 3 run Ubuntu exclusively. Games and some media applications on Linux itself and on the web via Firefox. Tough for a Windows machine to keep up with them - I have to only install new software for them from time to time that they want to try out (movie making, etc). No maintenance.
.. remote server access for her work is Windows Server and they just upgraded to 2008 that checks not only browser but OS level to not allow log in. She didn't want to deal with any work-around "I don't have time for that". Now, anything happens in Windows (crashes, etc that happen frequently and "no time for this either") and I say, "I don't know how to fix that". "You want me to install Linux on there?".
Gave up on the luddite wife
I've known people to use OO to convert documents between different revisions of MSOffice - since MSOffice had some poor document upgrade tools (partly on purpose - to force upgrading).