Blaming Microsoft for Removal of Java
on
Dan Gillmor on WinXP
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Microsoft removed the Java environment from XP, thereby breaking thousands of Web sites that use Java. XP customers will face endless downloads to replace the functionality they'd come to expect.
I may be wrong, (Trust me it wouldn't be the first time) but isn't the removal of Java from XP stem from a court settlement between Sun and Microsoft. I don't think the settlement explicetly made Microsoft remove it from the operating system, but instead didn't allow Microsoft to develop a Java compiler or products anymore. Why should they be expected in include the VM if they don't have any control over it.
It will still be available for download. So while it may temporarily render sites using Java useless -- they aren't broken forever.
How do I post a bug to Bugzilla complaining about Bugzilla. That is the most unusable seach engine I've ever seen! Some user interface classes might help.
The problem with this is that people expect a certain quality from Coke, McDonalds, Microsoft (here come the flames), or whoever. This consumer trust has to be built around customer satisfaction. If the grocery store, or hamburger reseller, or OEM decides to start changing the product, the original manufacturer can no longer guarentee the quality they inteded. So these practices would not only hurt the maker of the product, but also the consumer!
If you are going to resell McDonalds products, I think they should be able to say that you have to keep it exactly as they sold it to you. It is there product. By changing it you are effecting how people view them. Should grocery stores be allowed to paint Coke cans green?
My understanding of an XML web service is a page (a service of sorts) that can be accessed via http or https and accepts an XML document. The service then parses the document or whatever needs to be done. Processes the information and then returns an XML document to the client. This can be useful in many applications, especially when a database is located on a remote server.
I do think that Microsoft is excited about the easy integration between.NET and Passport, but I don't believe for a second that they think it is the central point of.NET.
I'm not sure why you wouldn't be able to implement.NET without passport. Currently I'm using a site that uses form authentication over https, and I'm having no problems. I'm using ASP.NET programmed in Visual Basic (although it is just as easy to implement in C#) with SQL Server 2000 as a backend. Hope this helps!
Everytime there is a story posted about.NET, there seems to be a huge discussion about what.NET
is. I think Microsoft has done a horrible job explaining it to the IT world, but that is partly
because it encompasses a bunch of different technologies. I took this from the microsoft site to help
clarify what exactly.NET is.
.NET Defined
Quite simply,.NET is Microsoft's platform for XML Web services. XML Web services allow applications to communicate and share data over the Internet, regardless of operating system or programming language.
The Microsoft.NET platform includes a comprehensive family of products, built on XML and Internet industry standards, that provide for each aspect of developing, managing, using, and experiencing XML Web services. XML Web services will become part of the Microsoft applications, tools, and servers you already use today--and will be built into new products to meet all of your business needs.
More specifically, there are five areas where Microsoft is building the.NET platform today, namely: Tools, Servers, XML Web Services, Clients, and.NET Experiences.
.NET Experiences
Description: .NET Experiences are XML Web services that allow you to access information across the Internet and from standalone applications in an integrated way that saves you time and money. Microsoft will deliver.NET Experiences for individuals and for businesses. Some of the products that Microsoft is transitioning into.NET Experiences are MSN®, bCentral(TM), and Visual Studio.NET.
Clients
Description:
Clients are PCs, laptops, workstations, phones, handheld computers, Tablet PCs, game consoles, and other smart devices. What makes these devices "smart" is their ability to access XML Web services. Smart clients use software that supports XML Web services, and enable you to access your data regardless of the location, type, and number of clients you use. Some of the.NET client software Microsoft will offer are: Windows CE, Windows Embedded, Window 2000, and the upcoming Windows XP. This software will power PCs, laptops, workstations, smart phones, handheld computers, Tablet PCs, and XBox game consoles.
Services
Description:
In addition to developers creating XML Web services, Microsoft is creating a core set of building block services that perform routine tasks and act as the backbone for developers to build upon. The first set of XML Web services being built, codenamed "HailStorm", is user-centric services oriented around people, rather than specific devices, networks, or applications. "HailStorm" is based upon the Microsoft Passport user authentication system. With "HailStorm", users receive relevant information, as they need it, delivered to the devices they're using, and based on preferences they have established.
Web sites vs. XML Web services
Web sites are about presenting information to a user: they are the communication vehicle for servers to talk to users. XML Web services offer a direct means for applications to interact with other applications. Applications hosted internally, as well as on remote systems, can communicate via the Internet by using XML and SOAP messages.
Servers:
Description:
The.NET Enterprise Servers, including the Windows 2000 server family, make up Microsoft.NET's server infrastructure for deploying, managing, and orchestrating XML Web services. Designed with mission-critical performance in mind, they provide enterprises with the agility they need to integrate their systems, applications, and partners through XML Web services, and the flexibility to adapt to changing business requirements. The.NET Enterprise Servers are:
Application Center 2000 to deploy and manage highly available and scalable Web applications;
BizTalk(TM) Server 2000 to build XML-based business processes across applications and organizations;
Commerce Server 2000 for quickly building scalable e-commerce solutions;
Content Management Server 2001 to manage content for dynamic e-business Web sites;
Exchange Server 2000 to enable messaging and collaboration, anytime, anywhere;
Host Integration Server 2000 for bridging to data and applications on legacy systems;
Internet Security and Acceleration Server 2000 for secure, fast Internet connectivity;
Mobile Information 2001 Server to enable application support by mobile devices like cell phones;
SharePoint Portal Server 2001 to find, share, and publish business information; and
SQL Server(TM) 2000 to store, retrieve, and analyze structured XML data.
Tools
Description:
Visual Studio.NET and the Microsoft.NET Framework supply a complete solution for developers to build, deploy, and run XML Web services. They maximize the performance, reliability, and security of XML Web services.
Visual Studio.NET is the next generation of Microsoft's popular multi-language development tool, built especially for.NET. Visual Studio.NET helps developers quickly build XML Web services and applications that scale easily, using the language of their choice. Visual Studio.NET advances the high-productivity programming languages Visual Basic®, which includes new object oriented programming features; Visual C++®, which advances Windows development and enables you to build.NET applications; and C#, which brings RAD to the C and C++ developer.
The.NET Framework is a high-productivity, standards-based, multi-language application execution environment that handles essential plumbing chores and eases deployment. It provides an application execution environment that manages memory, addresses versioning issues, and improves the reliability, scalability, and security of your application. The.NET Framework consists of several parts, including the Common Language Runtime, a rich set of class libraries for building XML Web services, and ASP.NET.
Now you can mod this however you want, but hopefully this will improve peoples understanding of what.NET is and it will help the discussion here at Slashdot!
Not only that, but I'm willing to bet if we could start effectively factoring such large numbers, somewhere -- somehow, a medical breakthrough would come from it!
I am a Microsoft supporter (There goes my Karma) and I'm not a big fan of Java, but I think that this is a mistake.
Just recently I started programming using.NET. I've mostly used VB.NET to develop both desktop and web applications. I think it is a great technology, but Microsoft needs to realize that it is going to take time for it to take hold. Discontinueing Java support this early will make more users mad than it will make users happy. The first time Johnny Computer User tries to play a Java game online and has to go download a 6 Meg JVM he is going to be pissed.
I can't think of a good reason to take out Java unless it is to force sites to start using.NET instead of Java, and I'm not sure most Webmasters are ready to do this.
I'm sure for the actually pitching part of the machine an 850 Mhz machine isn't needed. But for the graphics and to reproduce the finger position of the pitcher you need a little bit more horsepower!
The problem with this stems from the fact that not everyone assigns the same value to content. Let's say Joe finds a piece of info on the Internet and he's willing to pay $10 for it, Jack finds that same piece of info but only thinks it is worth $2, and Jill finds the information not useful at all. Now if the information provider sets the value of that piece of information at $5, he's lost 2 customers, not one.
Yeah. How does this not happen everywyere? I want to sell a CD in a store. I charge 15 dollars. Most of the free world wouldn't give me 3 cents for it. I don't sell many CD's. However, if the CD is good, maybe three million out of the possible 100 million(?) possible CD buyers buy it. I've lost 99 million customers, but I can't sell everything to everyone now can I?
Monopoly: Exclusive control by one group of the means of producing or selling a commodity or service.
It has nothing to do with how many people buy the product. It has nothing to do with the fact that you don't buy the product. It has nothing to do with the fact you are an idiot.
I remember spending hours when I was 15 years old to configure my BBS to send and receive FidoNet messages. The nearest FidoNet Hub was a long distance call, and at the end of that month my parents were quite pissed.
The linux community is always complaining that they have the better OS and they are poised to claim their throne by toppling Microsoft in the OS market.
I'm not sure I believe this at all, but if Linux hopes to get any sort of userbase they are going to need to make things much simpler.
I'm not saying that this is a earth shattering development, but I am saying that it is a step in the right direction!
Well..
It isn't as detailed as it is in linux, but if you hit Esc as the windows start up screen is displayed you are kicked out to a screen where it shows certain drivers (CD..) being loaded.
I think if that Linux ever wants to become mainstream (insert grandpartent example here) they need to hide the stuff that would scare the average computer user. This is probably a step in the right direction as long as the info can still be seen in logs, or via escaping the startup screen.
Taco-
The only reason I read anything you write is to enjoy some good ol' Microsoft bashing.. Where was it this time? I don't know what to do with myself... This calls for a 3 part series on why Microsoft is the antichrist! Arrggghh...
Microsoft will be using a very tuned down version of their operating system. It won't have all of the things that exist in their multi-purpose operating system that might slow them down. Performance shouldn't be an issue!
Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft removed the Java environment from XP, thereby breaking thousands of Web sites that use Java. XP customers will face endless downloads to replace the functionality they'd come to expect.
I may be wrong, (Trust me it wouldn't be the first time) but isn't the removal of Java from XP stem from a court settlement between Sun and Microsoft. I don't think the settlement explicetly made Microsoft remove it from the operating system, but instead didn't allow Microsoft to develop a Java compiler or products anymore. Why should they be expected in include the VM if they don't have any control over it.
It will still be available for download. So while it may temporarily render sites using Java useless -- they aren't broken forever.
How do I post a bug to Bugzilla complaining about Bugzilla. That is the most unusable seach engine I've ever seen! Some user interface classes might help.
The problem with this is that people expect a certain quality from Coke, McDonalds, Microsoft (here come the flames), or whoever. This consumer trust has to be built around customer satisfaction. If the grocery store, or hamburger reseller, or OEM decides to start changing the product, the original manufacturer can no longer guarentee the quality they inteded. So these practices would not only hurt the maker of the product, but also the consumer!
If you are going to resell McDonalds products, I think they should be able to say that you have to keep it exactly as they sold it to you. It is there product. By changing it you are effecting how people view them. Should grocery stores be allowed to paint Coke cans green?
Well...
.NET and Passport, but I don't believe for a second that they think it is the central point of .NET.
.NET without passport. Currently I'm using a site that uses form authentication over https, and I'm having no problems. I'm using ASP.NET programmed in Visual Basic (although it is just as easy to implement in C#) with SQL Server 2000 as a backend. Hope this helps!
My understanding of an XML web service is a page (a service of sorts) that can be accessed via http or https and accepts an XML document. The service then parses the document or whatever needs to be done. Processes the information and then returns an XML document to the client. This can be useful in many applications, especially when a database is located on a remote server.
I do think that Microsoft is excited about the easy integration between
I'm not sure why you wouldn't be able to implement
Everytime there is a story posted about .NET, there seems to be a huge discussion about what .NET
is. I think Microsoft has done a horrible job explaining it to the IT world, but that is partly
because it encompasses a bunch of different technologies. I took this from the microsoft site to help
clarify what exactly .NET is.
.NET Defined
.NET is Microsoft's platform for XML Web services. XML Web services allow applications to communicate and share data over the Internet, regardless of operating system or programming language.
.NET platform includes a comprehensive family of products, built on XML and Internet industry standards, that provide for each aspect of developing, managing, using, and experiencing XML Web services. XML Web services will become part of the Microsoft applications, tools, and servers you already use today--and will be built into new products to meet all of your business needs.
.NET platform today, namely: Tools, Servers, XML Web Services, Clients, and .NET Experiences.
.NET Experiences
.NET Experiences are XML Web services that allow you to access information across the Internet and from standalone applications in an integrated way that saves you time and money. Microsoft will deliver .NET Experiences for individuals and for businesses. Some of the products that Microsoft is transitioning into .NET Experiences are MSN®, bCentral(TM), and Visual Studio .NET.
.NET client software Microsoft will offer are: Windows CE, Windows Embedded, Window 2000, and the upcoming Windows XP. This software will power PCs, laptops, workstations, smart phones, handheld computers, Tablet PCs, and XBox game consoles.
.NET Enterprise Servers, including the Windows 2000 server family, make up Microsoft .NET's server infrastructure for deploying, managing, and orchestrating XML Web services. Designed with mission-critical performance in mind, they provide enterprises with the agility they need to integrate their systems, applications, and partners through XML Web services, and the flexibility to adapt to changing business requirements. The .NET Enterprise Servers are:
.NET and the Microsoft .NET Framework supply a complete solution for developers to build, deploy, and run XML Web services. They maximize the performance, reliability, and security of XML Web services.
.NET is the next generation of Microsoft's popular multi-language development tool, built especially for .NET. Visual Studio .NET helps developers quickly build XML Web services and applications that scale easily, using the language of their choice. Visual Studio.NET advances the high-productivity programming languages Visual Basic®, which includes new object oriented programming features; Visual C++®, which advances Windows development and enables you to build .NET applications; and C#, which brings RAD to the C and C++ developer.
.NET Framework is a high-productivity, standards-based, multi-language application execution environment that handles essential plumbing chores and eases deployment. It provides an application execution environment that manages memory, addresses versioning issues, and improves the reliability, scalability, and security of your application. The .NET Framework consists of several parts, including the Common Language Runtime, a rich set of class libraries for building XML Web services, and ASP .NET.
.NET is and it will help the discussion here at Slashdot!
Quite simply,
The Microsoft
More specifically, there are five areas where Microsoft is building the
Description:
Clients
Description:
Clients are PCs, laptops, workstations, phones, handheld computers, Tablet PCs, game consoles, and other smart devices. What makes these devices "smart" is their ability to access XML Web services. Smart clients use software that supports XML Web services, and enable you to access your data regardless of the location, type, and number of clients you use. Some of the
Services
Description:
In addition to developers creating XML Web services, Microsoft is creating a core set of building block services that perform routine tasks and act as the backbone for developers to build upon. The first set of XML Web services being built, codenamed "HailStorm", is user-centric services oriented around people, rather than specific devices, networks, or applications. "HailStorm" is based upon the Microsoft Passport user authentication system. With "HailStorm", users receive relevant information, as they need it, delivered to the devices they're using, and based on preferences they have established.
Web sites vs. XML Web services
Web sites are about presenting information to a user: they are the communication vehicle for servers to talk to users. XML Web services offer a direct means for applications to interact with other applications. Applications hosted internally, as well as on remote systems, can communicate via the Internet by using XML and SOAP messages.
Servers:
Description:
The
Application Center 2000 to deploy and manage highly available and scalable Web applications;
BizTalk(TM) Server 2000 to build XML-based business processes across applications and organizations;
Commerce Server 2000 for quickly building scalable e-commerce solutions;
Content Management Server 2001 to manage content for dynamic e-business Web sites;
Exchange Server 2000 to enable messaging and collaboration, anytime, anywhere;
Host Integration Server 2000 for bridging to data and applications on legacy systems;
Internet Security and Acceleration Server 2000 for secure, fast Internet connectivity;
Mobile Information 2001 Server to enable application support by mobile devices like cell phones;
SharePoint Portal Server 2001 to find, share, and publish business information; and
SQL Server(TM) 2000 to store, retrieve, and analyze structured XML data.
Tools
Description:
Visual Studio
Visual Studio
The
Now you can mod this however you want, but hopefully this will improve peoples understanding of what
Not only that, but I'm willing to bet if we could start effectively factoring such large numbers, somewhere -- somehow, a medical breakthrough would come from it!
/. is actually an abbreviation for weak story!
Actually lastime I tried to download and install Netscape it didn't work. That is why I won't use it!
I am a Microsoft supporter (There goes my Karma) and I'm not a big fan of Java, but I think that this is a mistake.
.NET. I've mostly used VB.NET to develop both desktop and web applications. I think it is a great technology, but Microsoft needs to realize that it is going to take time for it to take hold. Discontinueing Java support this early will make more users mad than it will make users happy. The first time Johnny Computer User tries to play a Java game online and has to go download a 6 Meg JVM he is going to be pissed.
.NET instead of Java, and I'm not sure most Webmasters are ready to do this.
Just recently I started programming using
I can't think of a good reason to take out Java unless it is to force sites to start using
I'm sure for the actually pitching part of the machine an 850 Mhz machine isn't needed. But for the graphics and to reproduce the finger position of the pitcher you need a little bit more horsepower!
You need not go on, you have already proved that you are an idiot!
The problem with this stems from the fact that not everyone assigns the same value to content. Let's say Joe finds a piece of info on the Internet and he's willing to pay $10 for it, Jack finds that same piece of info but only thinks it is worth $2, and Jill finds the information not useful at all. Now if the information provider sets the value of that piece of information at $5, he's lost 2 customers, not one.
Yeah. How does this not happen everywyere? I want to sell a CD in a store. I charge 15 dollars. Most of the free world wouldn't give me 3 cents for it. I don't sell many CD's. However, if the CD is good, maybe three million out of the possible 100 million(?) possible CD buyers buy it. I've lost 99 million customers, but I can't sell everything to everyone now can I?
ASPToday.com 4GuysFromRolla.com 15seconds.com
Monopoly: Exclusive control by one group of the means of producing or selling a commodity or service.
It has nothing to do with how many people buy the product. It has nothing to do with the fact that you don't buy the product. It has nothing to do with the fact you are an idiot.
But just to clarify... You ARE an idiot!
Wow...
That was pretty funny how you changed the subject of the original post. (One that frankly made sense) In fact you are a comedic genius.
Or in all actuality.. AN IDIOT!
Call Firestone!
I remember spending hours when I was 15 years old to configure my BBS to send and receive FidoNet messages. The nearest FidoNet Hub was a long distance call, and at the end of that month my parents were quite pissed.
Those were the days! RIP
The linux community is always complaining that they have the better OS and they are poised to claim their throne by toppling Microsoft in the OS market.
I'm not sure I believe this at all, but if Linux hopes to get any sort of userbase they are going to need to make things much simpler.
I'm not saying that this is a earth shattering development, but I am saying that it is a step in the right direction!
Well.. It isn't as detailed as it is in linux, but if you hit Esc as the windows start up screen is displayed you are kicked out to a screen where it shows certain drivers (CD..) being loaded. I think if that Linux ever wants to become mainstream (insert grandpartent example here) they need to hide the stuff that would scare the average computer user. This is probably a step in the right direction as long as the info can still be seen in logs, or via escaping the startup screen.
Taco- The only reason I read anything you write is to enjoy some good ol' Microsoft bashing.. Where was it this time? I don't know what to do with myself... This calls for a 3 part series on why Microsoft is the antichrist! Arrggghh...
I think he was kidding!
Does anyone know if he has to be appointed/confirmed for this position, or if he is just given the title?
The irony of it all is that I have gotten the "Make your PC Sweet" neon light ad from ThinkGeek!
Microsoft will be using a very tuned down version of their operating system. It won't have all of the things that exist in their multi-purpose operating system that might slow them down. Performance shouldn't be an issue!