In 2006, Apple was heavily criticized for the conditions of the Chinese factories owned by Foxconn, Apple's iPod manufacturer. Foxconn first denied the sweatshop claims, but Apple launched an investigation anyway, forcing Foxconn to admit that it had broken some of China's labor laws. Apple did eventually release its official report on the iPod factory conditions, noting that Foxconn had indeed violated some of the company's Code of Conduct. Foxconn agreed to make changes immediately in order to better comply.
okay.. I guess we can agree on that. I'd just put quite a few games on the same "artful" level as many Hollywood blockbusters (sometimes even higher), I wouldn't compare any game with, to stay in the movie analogy, any Stanley Kubrick for example (hell.. even the thought of doing that feels blasphemous).
anyway.. thanks for the discussion, I thought it was pretty interesting (and to the troll mod : I think his "fuck you" was meant in a completely utilitarian non artistic way, and I support him in that)
Of course I do, but it's not a distinction between "art" and "non-art". The distinction happens on a purely subjective level as to what I prefer. I'd take a PKD short story over Portal's story anyday, but a video game generally isn't limited to its narrative (grafic and soudn design, the way the story is told), nor are books for that matter (writing style, even presentation plays a part in the way book impacts on the reader). Anyway, I'm really not trying to say that Portal is a masterfull art piece, just that it IS art.
Similarly, and sorry for bringing her in, but it's not meant in any offensive way, your own mother would probably take your short story over Dickens.
To get extreme, porns are art too. For the most part I'd say very bad one, but they have a ~function| beside being purely descriptive. Being utilitarian doesn't even stop things from being pieces of art. Think about architecture or object design.
... that Apple released a tablet called the iPad, which is white, has mutitouch and runs iPhoneOS, and just move on? In the meantime, Endgadget received a JooJoo board and made a quick video preview of it, there were news about the Notion Ink Adams (along with a nice video too), the HP Slate, the Gemini, and probably a slew of other tablets nobody even heard of, because they were drowned by the Big Apple Marketing Monster.
Well.. I guess you can feel yourself, flattered : the silly short stories you wrote WERE art. If you had writen a phone book, I might think otherwise. A phone book is generally not a work of art (unless someone uses it in ANY artistic way, like putting it on a pedestal and saying "that's a piece of art") It's not ridiculous, it's just what art is. Some art is subjectively ~better~ than other, but that's very dependent on the context and the person judging. Even though, it's still art. As for portal, we can have this discussion endlessly. The game in itself is art. It's not about single pieces but about the whole thing. (as I said, I don't pass any judgement about it's actual artistic value, just about it's quality as an art piece). If you MUST have an example : the use of "Still Alive" for the end credit (along with the end-credit ASCII art clip) as counterpoint to the frenetic and rather dramatic action leading to it was quite artful.
"just simple entertainment" is in no way an indication that something is NOT art. Actually, it's a pretty good one that it IS art.
The contradiction was between "hillarious, clever and a bit chilling at times" and "evokes no emotion".
Pretty sure GlaDOS says something along the line that you were "created" by Aperture to help them test their tech in one of the voice sequences in the lab. But it's been some times since I last played it through. The fact that GlaDOS was able to go nuts is the what I meant about the "Evil of Technology". I never said it particularly profound, but then, if you need a certain perceived *depth* for something to be "Art", where do you set the universal threshold that fits everybody?
Interesting that you didn't react on your aledged contradiction though
"What it does do is entertain, and in a unique, interesting way. It's incredibly fun. Hilarious, clever, and a bit chilling at times."
there is your answer (even though you contrasted that with "evokes no emotion" which, to me, sounds like you are contradicting yourself.)
Personally, I loved the look of Portal, but that aside, let me indulge in some far fetched theory : Portal is about the evil of technology used without concience, about corporate ruthlessness, about de-humanized procedures. In parts, it links to P.K.Dick'ian themes, as you play an android with whom, in the best of cases, you'll mentally associate with while playing the game, thus bringing up the question "what makes a human human and why shouldn't the piece of tech you play avoid destruction".. Why, in heaven's name, do you escape the furnace and actively go looking for that all-alusive piece of cake. After all, you really just play a toaster with springy legs and a pair of tits.
Now I guess you'll say it's a load of bollock, and you're entitled to that opinion. Myself, I never could get the hang of Beuys' work, yet it's still considered Art. I wouldn't go as far as saying that Portal should be displayed in MOMA, unless they have a special exhibition about "Art In Computer Games", it doesn't lessen the fact that, for all it matters, "Portal" can be considered Art. If it can be considered Art it IS Art... qed.
Portal, as any other video game is art. Whether it's ~good~ art or not is extremely subjective (which, actually, makes it even more "artful"). I think the reason why portal is mentioned that often is that it was one of the few commercially successful games in the last years which involved the player emotionally (through its story, setting and overall atmosphere).
How is a completely blue canvas art? How is a multicolored photocopy (I know.. not photocopy at all, butyou get the gist) of Marilyn Monroe's face art? Why are anatomically and perspectivically incorrect pictures of madonnas with big boobiçes, painted in the middle age, art? what about crude stick drawings of what could possibly be elefants on a cave side?... and that's just paintings. If it's the fact that the audience is not participating, then I urge you to consider theater plays living off audience participation, or even concerts relying to a big part on the participation of the audience (Frank Zappa was known for it, so is Bobby Mc Ferrin).
Egbert is just old and grumpy if you ask me... and quite full of himself.
Exactly. Go cold turkey, and find yourself a different addiction, goddamit!
As a smoker, I will now say something you might not want to believe : I actually *enjoy* smoking. Obviously, the health risk is something I'd rather be without, but I like the anti-depressing and hunger-decreasing effects. It's also very nice to smoke up while sitting at the window when I need to think about some programming problem. I'm also self-aware enough to know that I'm someone who, no matter what, will always be addicted to something. If I stop smoking, I'll probably end up eating candies or chocolate, or just become video game addicted, start up drinking or, worst of all, destroy my knees by jogging every day. So I'll stay a smoker, and if electronic cigarettes alleviate the worst problems while keeping the benefits, I welcome it.
There is something seriously fucked up if society can dictate which addictions (the victimless ones) are socially okay (consuming, TV, some sports, Farmville), and which ones are not (smoking, FPS games, sex, going to raves) regardless of the benefits to YOU personally. (note: I don't go to raves, I seldom play FPS, and I'm reading/. which automatically negates any mention of a sexlife)
The author actually says in the article that Everquest and Asheron's Call were about or were already released (and by that measure, Meridian and Ultima Online must have been out already). He also says that he wrote this article because he was curious what happened to the game, which makes him a very gifted journalist for becoming curious just as 'An iPhone and iPad version of the Fabled Lands books is set for release this Summer" (picture caption on the 3rd page). Slashvertisement much?
As someone who is still trying his Android Market money from Google, I'd say people sue Google because it's just as evil as other megacorps, especially those two with the half rotten apples or broken chairs
slightly off topic I know. Just got that literally 2mn ago from Google. My question (asked a year ago) was how can I get my money if I'm not in the USA. Emphasis mine.
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How can a device built for a non-techie crowd (aka. Facebook Bubble Bobble Clones consumers) be more convenient for web browsing when most of the sites and content they are likely to consume ARE flash based
How do you ~consume~ emails, if you can't really reply because "typing on the on-screen keyboard is a horrible experience" (dixit Pogue)?
What is convenient about watching photos or videos when "every fingerprint is grossly apparent. "
Why use it as an eBook reader if "You can’t read well in direct sunlight." and "At 1.5 pounds, the iPad gets heavy in your hand after awhile"
Yes, I actually read them, and I'm officially impressed that the battery life is really that long. That said, the articles' titles are all very enthusiastic, while the content itself is generally much more ambivalent. It's nice PR though : when you get to a news aggregator (let's say news.google) and you really just glance at the titles of the reviews, you'll surely come to the conclusion that it's the second coming
Check the video of the USA Today review for example. Title of the article "It's a winner", video "damn.. the colour pops out." and then lots of bitching about iTunes and how things just don't work as well as they should. (but "ooooh, the case is soooo bootiful".
I'm sure it will sell well. But it's not revolutionary (pretty much every review in GP point out that it's really just an iTouch XL), and the reviews are weirdly at odds with their title
Hmmm I checked those, and the original article. Even though the articles all claim the iPad is a complete success in their title, the rundown is mostly "it looks great, it feels great, it really runs 9-12 hours but it's an iTouch XL and it's NOT a kindle killer (too heavy). You can't really do much with it, apart from playing games ( "great colours by the way"), browsing, due to lack of Flash is very often frustrating, and the virtual keyboard look fine but plan on buying the extra keyboard dock and carry it around with you if you plan on mostly anything except search queries. The screen's most notable feature, apart from the case and the ~great colours~ is its ambition to be a major plot element in CSI when they recover fingerprints off it. The lack of USB ports might hurt it, so does the lack of camera."
Something tells me Apple only got theman iPad to review if they certified with blood that they would at least praise it in their title.
yes.. definitely the best course of action. To avoid being fallen on, they even went to the length of going inside and were probably just looking for a megaphone to safely shout at the kid "GET DOWN THAT TREE NOW!" from a distance.
You can contribute if you want, but more importantly, you can take the work that someone else made and create your own tree. You don't like the fact that the buttons are now on the left side in Shuttleworth's Ubuntu? Well, just create an ubuntu-based distro with a modified Gnome theme, call it "Linux Fat Wainob" ("Linux For-All-Those-Who-Are-In-Need Of--Buttons-On-The-Right-Edge"), and offer it to the public... or don't. As someone wise pointed out, "Hell is other people", so you can also choose to keep your own distro for yourself. *NOBODY* is keeping you from doing it, and it's actually a pretty simple process. If Enough people like it, then you'll probably get to the point where someone points out that the yellow theme you're using is pretty pisspoor, and then YOU can tell them to shove it. And the cycle starts again.
Try that with any Windows or MacOSX version and see how, in the best case, you stop getting updates or, in the case that you decided to share your version with others, you get a C&D letter from the right's owners lawyers.
That's why FOSS is a democracy. Proprietary OS's are more like a dictatorship. If you don't like something, you can't do anything about. And if you do, you might get a more or less fair warning from your souvereign.
Slashdot Mirror
actually, I think it's more like the 20mn into the future are now nearly through. Is the domain "Big Time Television.com" already taken?
Look, if you don't want to read that, why don't you, you know, just ignore it. Or tell slashdot not to show you Apple news?
from : apple-in-the-middle-of-another-sweatshop-labor-dispute
In 2006, Apple was heavily criticized for the conditions of the Chinese factories owned by Foxconn, Apple's iPod manufacturer. Foxconn first denied the sweatshop claims, but Apple launched an investigation anyway, forcing Foxconn to admit that it had broken some of China's labor laws. Apple did eventually release its official report on the iPod factory conditions, noting that Foxconn had indeed violated some of the company's Code of Conduct. Foxconn agreed to make changes immediately in order to better comply.
Looks like they forgot about that again?
you definitely have too much time on your hands.
name calling? how cute.
if you feel so strongly about Apple news, why don't you go to the first post and post THERE? it's stating exactly what I said, just in other words.
same here, which means I don't care about giving /. any page views, which also means I can bitch about Apple Marketing being invasive ... all day long.
Did you have a point beside being an obnoxious little troll?
okay .. I guess we can agree on that. I'd just put quite a few games on the same "artful" level as many Hollywood blockbusters (sometimes even higher), I wouldn't compare any game with, to stay in the movie analogy, any Stanley Kubrick for example (hell .. even the thought of doing that feels blasphemous).
anyway .. thanks for the discussion, I thought it was pretty interesting (and to the troll mod : I think his "fuck you" was meant in a completely utilitarian non artistic way, and I support him in that)
"Disable Advertising []
As our way of thanking you for your positive contributions to Slashdot, you are eligible to disable advertising. "
Ever seen this one? Yeah .. I thought not.
oh .. Actually I like to read news even about Apple ... Sometimes I even go out and eat at McD ... not just every hjour, every day.
as in : WHO CARES?
Of course I do, but it's not a distinction between "art" and "non-art". The distinction happens on a purely subjective level as to what I prefer. I'd take a PKD short story over Portal's story anyday, but a video game generally isn't limited to its narrative (grafic and soudn design, the way the story is told), nor are books for that matter (writing style, even presentation plays a part in the way book impacts on the reader). Anyway, I'm really not trying to say that Portal is a masterfull art piece, just that it IS art.
Similarly, and sorry for bringing her in, but it's not meant in any offensive way, your own mother would probably take your short story over Dickens.
To get extreme, porns are art too. For the most part I'd say very bad one, but they have a ~function| beside being purely descriptive. Being utilitarian doesn't even stop things from being pieces of art. Think about architecture or object design.
... that Apple released a tablet called the iPad, which is white, has mutitouch and runs iPhoneOS, and just move on? In the meantime, Endgadget received a JooJoo board and made a quick video preview of it, there were news about the Notion Ink Adams (along with a nice video too), the HP Slate, the Gemini, and probably a slew of other tablets nobody even heard of, because they were drowned by the Big Apple Marketing Monster.
Well .. I guess you can feel yourself, flattered : the silly short stories you wrote WERE art. If you had writen a phone book, I might think otherwise. A phone book is generally not a work of art (unless someone uses it in ANY artistic way, like putting it on a pedestal and saying "that's a piece of art") It's not ridiculous, it's just what art is. Some art is subjectively ~better~ than other, but that's very dependent on the context and the person judging. Even though, it's still art. As for portal, we can have this discussion endlessly. The game in itself is art. It's not about single pieces but about the whole thing. (as I said, I don't pass any judgement about it's actual artistic value, just about it's quality as an art piece). If you MUST have an example : the use of "Still Alive" for the end credit (along with the end-credit ASCII art clip) as counterpoint to the frenetic and rather dramatic action leading to it was quite artful.
"just simple entertainment" is in no way an indication that something is NOT art. Actually, it's a pretty good one that it IS art.
The contradiction was between "hillarious, clever and a bit chilling at times" and "evokes no emotion".
Pretty sure GlaDOS says something along the line that you were "created" by Aperture to help them test their tech in one of the voice sequences in the lab. But it's been some times since I last played it through. The fact that GlaDOS was able to go nuts is the what I meant about the "Evil of Technology". I never said it particularly profound, but then, if you need a certain perceived *depth* for something to be "Art", where do you set the universal threshold that fits everybody?
Interesting that you didn't react on your aledged contradiction though
"What it does do is entertain, and in a unique, interesting way. It's incredibly fun. Hilarious, clever, and a bit chilling at times."
there is your answer (even though you contrasted that with "evokes no emotion" which, to me, sounds like you are contradicting yourself.)
Personally, I loved the look of Portal, but that aside, let me indulge in some far fetched theory : Portal is about the evil of technology used without concience, about corporate ruthlessness, about de-humanized procedures. .. Why, in heaven's name, do you escape the furnace and actively go looking for that all-alusive piece of cake. After all, you really just play a toaster with springy legs and a pair of tits.
In parts, it links to P.K.Dick'ian themes, as you play an android with whom, in the best of cases, you'll mentally associate with while playing the game, thus bringing up the question "what makes a human human and why shouldn't the piece of tech you play avoid destruction"
Now I guess you'll say it's a load of bollock, and you're entitled to that opinion. Myself, I never could get the hang of Beuys' work, yet it's still considered Art. I wouldn't go as far as saying that Portal should be displayed in MOMA, unless they have a special exhibition about "Art In Computer Games", it doesn't lessen the fact that, for all it matters, "Portal" can be considered Art. If it can be considered Art it IS Art ... qed.
or even mammoths (no .. english isn't my first language, thank you very much)
Portal, as any other video game is art. Whether it's ~good~ art or not is extremely subjective (which, actually, makes it even more "artful"). I think the reason why portal is mentioned that often is that it was one of the few commercially successful games in the last years which involved the player emotionally (through its story, setting and overall atmosphere).
How is a completely blue canvas art? How is a multicolored photocopy (I know .. not photocopy at all, butyou get the gist) of Marilyn Monroe's face art? Why are anatomically and perspectivically incorrect pictures of madonnas with big boobiçes, painted in the middle age, art? what about crude stick drawings of what could possibly be elefants on a cave side? ... and that's just paintings. If it's the fact that the audience is not participating, then I urge you to consider theater plays living off audience participation, or even concerts relying to a big part on the participation of the audience (Frank Zappa was known for it, so is Bobby Mc Ferrin).
Egbert is just old and grumpy if you ask me ... and quite full of himself.
Exactly. Go cold turkey, and find yourself a different addiction, goddamit!
As a smoker, I will now say something you might not want to believe : I actually *enjoy* smoking. Obviously, the health risk is something I'd rather be without, but I like the anti-depressing and hunger-decreasing effects. It's also very nice to smoke up while sitting at the window when I need to think about some programming problem. I'm also self-aware enough to know that I'm someone who, no matter what, will always be addicted to something. If I stop smoking, I'll probably end up eating candies or chocolate, or just become video game addicted, start up drinking or, worst of all, destroy my knees by jogging every day. So I'll stay a smoker, and if electronic cigarettes alleviate the worst problems while keeping the benefits, I welcome it.
There is something seriously fucked up if society can dictate which addictions (the victimless ones) are socially okay (consuming, TV, some sports, Farmville), and which ones are not (smoking, FPS games, sex, going to raves) regardless of the benefits to YOU personally. (note: I don't go to raves, I seldom play FPS, and I'm reading /. which automatically negates any mention of a sexlife)
The author actually says in the article that Everquest and Asheron's Call were about or were already released (and by that measure, Meridian and Ultima Online must have been out already). He also says that he wrote this article because he was curious what happened to the game, which makes him a very gifted journalist for becoming curious just as 'An iPhone and iPad version of the Fabled Lands books is set for release this Summer" (picture caption on the 3rd page). Slashvertisement much?
As someone who is still trying his Android Market money from Google, I'd say people sue Google because it's just as evil as other megacorps, especially those two with the half rotten apples or broken chairs
slightly off topic I know. Just got that literally 2mn ago from Google. My question (asked a year ago) was how can I get my money if I'm not in the USA. Emphasis mine.
Hello Sammy, Thanks for writing in. Apologies for the delayed response. If you wish the change the locale of your Google Checkout account, you will need to create a new account. In order to do this, you would also need to pay to register a new Android Developer account. After doing so, our team may be able to move your applications over into that new account that you plan on linking with a France Checkout account. If we can assist you further, please let us know. Regards, The Android Market Team
nice return, Mr. Dipshit. Too bad the fingerprint thing is mentioned in most reviews.
just to make it clear : I don't like flash.
How can a device built for a non-techie crowd (aka. Facebook Bubble Bobble Clones consumers) be more convenient for web browsing when most of the sites and content they are likely to consume ARE flash based
How do you ~consume~ emails, if you can't really reply because "typing on the on-screen keyboard is a horrible experience" (dixit Pogue)?
What is convenient about watching photos or videos when "every fingerprint is grossly apparent. "
Why use it as an eBook reader if "You can’t read well in direct sunlight." and "At 1.5 pounds, the iPad gets heavy in your hand after awhile"
Yes, I actually read them, and I'm officially impressed that the battery life is really that long. That said, the articles' titles are all very enthusiastic, while the content itself is generally much more ambivalent. It's nice PR though : when you get to a news aggregator (let's say news.google) and you really just glance at the titles of the reviews, you'll surely come to the conclusion that it's the second coming
Check the video of the USA Today review for example. Title of the article "It's a winner", video "damn .. the colour pops out." and then lots of bitching about iTunes and how things just don't work as well as they should. (but "ooooh, the case is soooo bootiful".
I'm sure it will sell well. But it's not revolutionary (pretty much every review in GP point out that it's really just an iTouch XL), and the reviews are weirdly at odds with their title
Hmmm I checked those, and the original article. Even though the articles all claim the iPad is a complete success in their title, the rundown is mostly "it looks great, it feels great, it really runs 9-12 hours but it's an iTouch XL and it's NOT a kindle killer (too heavy). You can't really do much with it, apart from playing games ( "great colours by the way"), browsing, due to lack of Flash is very often frustrating, and the virtual keyboard look fine but plan on buying the extra keyboard dock and carry it around with you if you plan on mostly anything except search queries. The screen's most notable feature, apart from the case and the ~great colours~ is its ambition to be a major plot element in CSI when they recover fingerprints off it. The lack of USB ports might hurt it, so does the lack of camera."
Something tells me Apple only got theman iPad to review if they certified with blood that they would at least praise it in their title.
yes .. definitely the best course of action. To avoid being fallen on, they even went to the length of going inside and were probably just looking for a megaphone to safely shout at the kid "GET DOWN THAT TREE NOW!" from a distance.
You didn't get what GP is pointing out, did you?
You can contribute if you want, but more importantly, you can take the work that someone else made and create your own tree. You don't like the fact that the buttons are now on the left side in Shuttleworth's Ubuntu? Well, just create an ubuntu-based distro with a modified Gnome theme, call it "Linux Fat Wainob" ("Linux For-All-Those-Who-Are-In-Need Of--Buttons-On-The-Right-Edge"), and offer it to the public ... or don't. As someone wise pointed out, "Hell is other people", so you can also choose to keep your own distro for yourself. *NOBODY* is keeping you from doing it, and it's actually a pretty simple process. If Enough people like it, then you'll probably get to the point where someone points out that the yellow theme you're using is pretty pisspoor, and then YOU can tell them to shove it. And the cycle starts again.
Try that with any Windows or MacOSX version and see how, in the best case, you stop getting updates or, in the case that you decided to share your version with others, you get a C&D letter from the right's owners lawyers.
That's why FOSS is a democracy. Proprietary OS's are more like a dictatorship. If you don't like something, you can't do anything about. And if you do, you might get a more or less fair warning from your souvereign.