I must admit it, I am impresseed with the way you are able to speak in (relatively) clear terms about the issues that matter without getting sidetracked or losing focus. All your arguments seem to be spot on. Thank you for being an inspiration:)
The agreement I am speaking of is never truly formalized between both parties. There is no law that states that artists MUST create art and that consumers MUST pay for it. There is only a mutual understanding that this state is desirable.
The EULA you speak of is very one sided. I can write all sorts of contracts that put demands on your side, but if you don't sign the contract then you are obviously not bound by it. Similarly, if I do not accept the EULA I am not bound by it. And no, in my view clicking on the "click here to accept" button does not constitute an agreement on my part. I have to actually AGREE for that to happen. This is wellillustrated in the case where the EULA makes unlawfull demands - I do not have to agree to unlawfull demands, but I am still allowed to use a product (depends on jurisdiction of course).
Furthermore, cheekyjohnson is quite correct in his argumentation. The logis is flawless. You arguing based on emotions, but not logic. Cheekyjohnson is merely saying that the flaw lies somewhere else than where everyone else thinks it lies, he does not deny that there is a flaw.
I don't see how you can reasonably believe this. There is a sort of "unwritten agreement" or "mutual understanding" that developers will spend time on creating content/games/art and that consumer will pay them for their spent effort and money.
You are correct in that this "agreement" is never formalized and no one can/should be punished for not sticking to the agreement (Some people might not agree with the idea of the agreement). But to say that no one is aware of this or has no expecations on it would be wrong.
At first I was very annoyed with your statements. While I could see the logic in them, it seemed you were being completely unreasonable about it. I can see here that you are actually not unreasonable, but only because you finally filled in the missing pieces.
In the future, if you want to shorten the discussion, I would recommend that you show all of your thoughts on the matter, instead of focusing on the specific bit you think is wrong.
While I agree with the sentiment of your statements, your arguments seem to be self contradictory and bogus. First you yourself state that IP != physical goods, then you proceed to use the word "stolen".
For me, the only relevant and correct part of your argument is this:
A lot of people that say "it doesn't hurt anyone" seem to firmly believe that the "P" word is completely evil. Profit is not evil, profit is what encourages further investments into future projects. Profit is what makes the next game of the series. Profit is what keeps people interested in development, just like profit keeps people interested in making cars, computers and aircraft.
If ISP's start to put the most common internet content close to the end users, they will use this as an excuse to no longer maintain the long distance lines because hardly anyone is using those anyway.
So in effect content providers pay ISP's to get their content on the ISP mirrors close to the users, and in return any other content is automtically less of a priority, simply because the long distance infrastructure demands are now lower.
You cannot improve speeds of some traffic without automatically decreasing the speed of everything else. In theory you could, in practice it would never ever work that way.
I just hope they make it clear to the users what's going on - not that it's a big deal, but it would be the right thing to do. Otherwise I'm just interested in seeing some statistics myself.
There is one very simple solution that would fix 90% of moderation gripes.
Instead of moderating +1, you moderate the desired total. The actual total then becomes the average of all votes. This means that the scale of 1-5 can be used more to its full effect (so that e.g. only the really brilliant posts get a +5), and you avoid all these karma problems.
I just don't understand why it isn't done that way. Can anyone offer insights on that?
Even worse, my mind has started to "crash" on rare occasions when people write "could have" instead of "could of" and similar stuff, simply because it is so rare to see it spelled right nowadays. That's really messed up.
I'm sorry, but I take care not to obstruct others when I'm moving around in places like that. Of course on rare occasions I too will be distracted by something and not notice if I'm an obstacle, but if that happens I apologize nicely. Most people quite obviously don't even try to pay attention and believe that the whole world should adjust according to them.
Is it really asking too much to expect people to be mindfull of others? Or do we really want to live in a society where everyone only cares about themselves?
You're going from a system where you are guaranteed to have your games working in the future to being at the mercy of some corporation that may change management, become insolvent and die, or change in another way, preventing you from accessing ALL of your games?
Seriously?
Buy a big harddriver every couple of years - I bet you do anyway - copy your entire game iso image directory in one fell swoop - done, your games are safe. Of course, always keep the old harddrive as backup somewhere.
Corporations don't prefer to make things that customers want, they prefer to make things that customers will buy or can be made to buy. There is a subtle but important difference.
Then offer a download of the directory, so paranoid users like you (nothing wrong with that - I just wouldn't bother) can download a copy for those emergencies.
Ok, so the power might be gone or your computer is crashed - but should we really waste a whole lot of paper, ink and money on printing information that is 99.9% useless to most people? Just go to your neighbour/whoever and get help there.
Maybe we can even keep a dead-tree version at the local library or something like that. But don't send me your stupid phone books, I don't know what to do with them.
slavery was around forever, before it got stoppeed. Are you seriously trying to say that bad things that have been going on forever should not be stopped because they have been around forever?
Or are you just saying that you wouldn't call it corruption, but that it still should be fought?
If the former, you're crazy, if the latter, you kinda missed the point and started arguing semantics.
I agree with your concerns about how apple treats customers, however it's hard to deny that without apple we would not have all these nice shiny toys. Apple appears to be the only company capable of creating a product with a specific set of goals in mind and make those parts just work.
Apple products are not without their flaws, but they generally don't feel like they just slapped together some random hardware components and called it a day. Most other companies products feel just like that.
I still stay away from buying apple because I hate their lockdown policies, but I am sad to say that apparently they are the only company capable of actually designing and making a proper product. Something that has a specific set of design goals and accomplishes exactly those - nothing more, nothing less.
Are you suggesting developers don't use dual screen setups, that it's only for gamers/windows users, and that in general linux users only use a single monitor?
At least that's what I got out your post, and let me tell you, you are so wrong. I'm a developer, a linux user, and I have two screens. I don't many other people who use two screens, but those who do mostly also run linux...
It's funny, you know, I always hated KDE 3.5, it was so completely quirky with plenty of odd features just tacked on wherever and however it was possible. It was cluttered, messy, and configuration was a nightmare - at least that's my experience from the limited exposure I got.
KDE 4.x on the other hand is very clean and straightforward. Sure I have to tweak some settings and shortcuts, but it's all very simple and I don't have to spend days just to get it do what I want.
I was always using gnome before, because it just worked, but now KDE 4.x is my new favorite. Yes it's still got some rough edges that need to be worked on, but otherwise I love it.
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wow - wish I had modpoints. This really shows how insanse some things are. Oh well.
I must admit it, I am impresseed with the way you are able to speak in (relatively) clear terms about the issues that matter without getting sidetracked or losing focus. All your arguments seem to be spot on. Thank you for being an inspiration :)
Unfortunately your are quite wrong.
The agreement I am speaking of is never truly formalized between both parties. There is no law that states that artists MUST create art and that consumers MUST pay for it. There is only a mutual understanding that this state is desirable.
The EULA you speak of is very one sided. I can write all sorts of contracts that put demands on your side, but if you don't sign the contract then you are obviously not bound by it. Similarly, if I do not accept the EULA I am not bound by it. And no, in my view clicking on the "click here to accept" button does not constitute an agreement on my part. I have to actually AGREE for that to happen. This is wellillustrated in the case where the EULA makes unlawfull demands - I do not have to agree to unlawfull demands, but I am still allowed to use a product (depends on jurisdiction of course).
Furthermore, cheekyjohnson is quite correct in his argumentation. The logis is flawless. You arguing based on emotions, but not logic. Cheekyjohnson is merely saying that the flaw lies somewhere else than where everyone else thinks it lies, he does not deny that there is a flaw.
"They have no expectation to get the money back"
I don't see how you can reasonably believe this. There is a sort of "unwritten agreement" or "mutual understanding" that developers will spend time on creating content/games/art and that consumer will pay them for their spent effort and money.
You are correct in that this "agreement" is never formalized and no one can/should be punished for not sticking to the agreement (Some people might not agree with the idea of the agreement). But to say that no one is aware of this or has no expecations on it would be wrong.
At first I was very annoyed with your statements. While I could see the logic in them, it seemed you were being completely unreasonable about it. I can see here that you are actually not unreasonable, but only because you finally filled in the missing pieces.
In the future, if you want to shorten the discussion, I would recommend that you show all of your thoughts on the matter, instead of focusing on the specific bit you think is wrong.
I hoope you understand what I'm trying to say.
While I agree with the sentiment of your statements, your arguments seem to be self contradictory and bogus. First you yourself state that IP != physical goods, then you proceed to use the word "stolen".
For me, the only relevant and correct part of your argument is this:
A lot of people that say "it doesn't hurt anyone" seem to firmly believe that the "P" word is completely evil. Profit is not evil, profit is what encourages further investments into future projects. Profit is what makes the next game of the series. Profit is what keeps people interested in development, just like profit keeps people interested in making cars, computers and aircraft.
I disagree.
If ISP's start to put the most common internet content close to the end users, they will use this as an excuse to no longer maintain the long distance lines because hardly anyone is using those anyway.
So in effect content providers pay ISP's to get their content on the ISP mirrors close to the users, and in return any other content is automtically less of a priority, simply because the long distance infrastructure demands are now lower.
You cannot improve speeds of some traffic without automatically decreasing the speed of everything else. In theory you could, in practice it would never ever work that way.
I just hope they make it clear to the users what's going on - not that it's a big deal, but it would be the right thing to do. Otherwise I'm just interested in seeing some statistics myself.
There is one very simple solution that would fix 90% of moderation gripes.
Instead of moderating +1, you moderate the desired total. The actual total then becomes the average of all votes. This means that the scale of 1-5 can be used more to its full effect (so that e.g. only the really brilliant posts get a +5), and you avoid all these karma problems.
I just don't understand why it isn't done that way. Can anyone offer insights on that?
Even worse, my mind has started to "crash" on rare occasions when people write "could have" instead of "could of" and similar stuff, simply because it is so rare to see it spelled right nowadays. That's really messed up.
I always ask them anyway. If it happens often enough they may learn that they are expected to stand left in short time.
I'm sorry, but I take care not to obstruct others when I'm moving around in places like that. Of course on rare occasions I too will be distracted by something and not notice if I'm an obstacle, but if that happens I apologize nicely. Most people quite obviously don't even try to pay attention and believe that the whole world should adjust according to them.
Is it really asking too much to expect people to be mindfull of others? Or do we really want to live in a society where everyone only cares about themselves?
Where can you get such a nice screen so cheaply?
I have been looking for screens of varying size for custom tablet projects, but I find it rather difficult to find a good usable screen.
Now the IPhone screen is too small for my needs, but I wonder where one would even start looking for something that good and that cheap.
I never understood - why not create a container format that can store all this stuff?
Something like the XMP sidecar files, embedding the actual image/raw file, and leaving space for software specific XMP extensions.
I'm sorry, but I agree witht he AC below.
You're going from a system where you are guaranteed to have your games working in the future to being at the mercy of some corporation that may change management, become insolvent and die, or change in another way, preventing you from accessing ALL of your games?
Seriously?
Buy a big harddriver every couple of years - I bet you do anyway - copy your entire game iso image directory in one fell swoop - done, your games are safe. Of course, always keep the old harddrive as backup somewhere.
That is a very neat way of putting it, thank you.
(No mod points though, sorry)
Corporations don't prefer to make things that customers want, they prefer to make things that customers will buy or can be made to buy. There is a subtle but important difference.
Then offer a download of the directory, so paranoid users like you (nothing wrong with that - I just wouldn't bother) can download a copy for those emergencies.
Ok, so the power might be gone or your computer is crashed - but should we really waste a whole lot of paper, ink and money on printing information that is 99.9% useless to most people? Just go to your neighbour/whoever and get help there.
Maybe we can even keep a dead-tree version at the local library or something like that. But don't send me your stupid phone books, I don't know what to do with them.
slavery was around forever, before it got stoppeed. Are you seriously trying to say that bad things that have been going on forever should not be stopped because they have been around forever?
Or are you just saying that you wouldn't call it corruption, but that it still should be fought?
If the former, you're crazy, if the latter, you kinda missed the point and started arguing semantics.
Its clearly the table saw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esnQwVZOrUU
I agree with your concerns about how apple treats customers, however it's hard to deny that without apple we would not have all these nice shiny toys. Apple appears to be the only company capable of creating a product with a specific set of goals in mind and make those parts just work.
Apple products are not without their flaws, but they generally don't feel like they just slapped together some random hardware components and called it a day. Most other companies products feel just like that.
I still stay away from buying apple because I hate their lockdown policies, but I am sad to say that apparently they are the only company capable of actually designing and making a proper product. Something that has a specific set of design goals and accomplishes exactly those - nothing more, nothing less.
I'll buy it when the patch is out then, not a second earlier. I will not fall for mere promises.
oops, I accidentaly a word there :p
Are you suggesting developers don't use dual screen setups, that it's only for gamers/windows users, and that in general linux users only use a single monitor?
At least that's what I got out your post, and let me tell you, you are so wrong. I'm a developer, a linux user, and I have two screens. I don't many other people who use two screens, but those who do mostly also run linux...
It's funny, you know, I always hated KDE 3.5, it was so completely quirky with plenty of odd features just tacked on wherever and however it was possible. It was cluttered, messy, and configuration was a nightmare - at least that's my experience from the limited exposure I got.
KDE 4.x on the other hand is very clean and straightforward. Sure I have to tweak some settings and shortcuts, but it's all very simple and I don't have to spend days just to get it do what I want.
I was always using gnome before, because it just worked, but now KDE 4.x is my new favorite. Yes it's still got some rough edges that need to be worked on, but otherwise I love it.