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Canada's Largest Cities Seeing the End of the Phone Book
innocent_white_lamb writes "Telephone directories are available on the Internet, and many phones even store their own directories. There is less and less demand for a printed phone book, so residential phone books will no longer be printed and delivered in Canada's seven largest cities. Do we now expect everyone's grandma to look up phone numbers on the Internet? Of course, the Yellow Pages, where businesses pay for a listing, will still be delivered."
Why get rid of it completely? It doesn't need to be a "every year or never again" type of thing. Why not say you'll put out one new one every other year for a few years, then one new one every 5 years for a while?
This might be an interesting concept but what about the follow through? It mentions about online directories which might be fine and great for major cities but they are horrible for small towns (like the one I live in). I find it really hard if possible to find many of the local businesses from online information mainly because 1) I'm in a small town and so I'm guessing I don't count as a big enough market and 2) Small businesses are just that, small and often don't bother having an online presence. Now if companies like the Yellow Pages are going to put a solid effort in keeping their online site up to date then it might not be so bad. But I keep finding that they don't and small businesses are the ones that pay the penalty and the big ones just expect you to just use their sites 'store locater' so they don't care
Attention... all grammer nazi"s! Is they're anything; wrong with: my post,
Do we now expect everyone's grandma to look up phone numbers on the Internet? Yes, of course. Why not?
I over heard in the local telecom office here in Pune, India there will be no more printed directory here either. The last one we got is three years old.
BTW the directories in Indian cities were distributed only by the Monopoly telecom BSNL and its Big cities cousin MTNL. With rise of private players in wired as well as the exploded mobile segment in India, the directories were not much of the use anyway. This just puts the death nail in them.
BAIN http://www.devslashzero.com
At my last rent house local telco's were in competition with each other to have the "defacto" phone book. When stacked together the phone books I got in a 1 year period were 2 ft tall. The phone companies kept trying to 1 up each other. I never actually used one of them - except one of them had a nice local map tucked in the front. I pulled it out, circled where I lived for someone who was going to visit later and handed it over.
Why should I have to pay for trash pickup if they do free trash delivery?
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I'm under 30 and the only people I know with a landline (who would be listed in the phone book) are my parents and other older relatives. What exactly is the use case for the white pages anyway? You meet somebody, know their name but not their number, so you look it up and call them? Seems a little stalker-like to me... I usually ask for the number first.
"Do we now expect everyone's grandma to look up phone numbers on the Internet? " Actually, yes. It goes something like this: Grandma calls her favorite grandson; Grandma: Hey Dick, this is your grandma. Can you look up a number for me? Grandson: Sure, Grandma. What d'ya need? Oh, by the way, I can also bring you my old computer. That way you not only save a tree, but help me recycle my old hardware. Can you see where we're going yet?
But the first thing I do when I need to email someone is dust off and flip open the big ten pound thousand page tissue-paper thin book and start flipping!
I am currently using mine to support my futon, the middle leg snapped, and the support bar is bent so this book sits below to prevent the bar from bending further.
What they're doing now still lets grandma get one every year, she just has to ask for it. They're just not delivering on directly to everyone else's recycling box anymore.
I only see the "phonebook" sized directories used to prop open doors or as monitor stands.
OTOH the "paperback" sized directories are useful for carrying in cars or keeping on a handy shelf.
Dang. I'm gonna miss this annual event:
Navin R. Johnson: The new phone book's here! The new phone book's here!
Harry Hartounian: Boy, I wish I could get that excited about nothing.
Navin R. Johnson: Nothing? Are you kidding? Page 73 - Johnson, Navin R.! I'm somebody now! Millions of people look at this book everyday! This is the kind of spontaneous publicity - your name in print - that makes people. I'm in print! Things are going to start happening to me now.
[the Sniper points to Navin's name in the phone book]
Sniper: Johnson, Navin R... sounds like a typical bastard.
What one fool can do, another can. (Ancient Simian Proverb)
What will I use for kindling in my woodstove?
A few Yellow Pages (we get ~3 per year) last me all winter for kindling in the woodstove. A few pages twisted up, work very nicely.
...up phone numbers on the Internet? Of course. Everyone's grandma is knowledgeable enough to be asked when it comes to internet legislation. Want to introduce new sorts of internet censorship? New data retention laws? Do a poll in some home for old people. Result? 90% 'of course we need to regulate the evil internet'. So I expect everyone's grandma to be able to look up numbers on the internet.
I think it will be a very nice thing to stop receiving phonebook at home/office. It a waste of paper. At office, we have 18 lines, so we receive a phonebook per line. I remember few years ago, I had 100 analog lines (for an ISP) and receive 100 phonebook... excellent to start a fire.
I've been complaining to them about this by email - I don't want your stupid phone book, or your yellow pages!!!
They go into the recycling bin, unopen.
Why should my municipality have to pay to recycle that crap?
Grandma can use that, once a year. The print is too small anyways for her. Of course she actually thinks there is a lady in her phone who answers her calls and gives her messages anyways. (Actually true about the lady in the phone and my Gran, I won't even try to explain about her and ATMs)
D.O.U.O.S.V.A.V.V.M.
Why do we act like grandma's are so stupid?
Really, with the way this summary reads, do we even believe grandma could read the phonebook?
What is easier: 1) typing someones name and having the results appear right away, or 2) flipping through the thousands of pages until you get to the right letter?
They're doing a similar kind of thing here in Germany for some years already, you only get a postcard telling you there's a new phonebook and yellowpages available and where to get it. If you want one, you can collect any number you need at the next post office, certain gas stations and in bigger cities at the central railroad station.
A state legislator introduced a bill to require telcos to change "receives a phone book" from "yes" to "must request it". By the time it came up for a vote, some of those who'd previously supported the bill now were against it--even one of the bill's authors. Yellow Pages advertising is big business here in the US. Regional telcos are grabbing at anything they can to "monetize" and the ad revenue in phone books was a cash cow. I get a "real" phone book published by the telco and one that's purely ad driven that I toss into recycling straightaway. Once the Greens start slapping these senators at the ballot box, stuff like the phone book "opt-in" thing is going to have to go from city to city. Palo Alto and some neighboring cities have already banned plastic grocery bags, styrofoam cups, and containers. Telling the local phone company that they have to ask each of their Palo Alto customers if they want a phone book is just another issue. Unfortunately, yelling at a city councilman at a council meeting for caving to a lobbyist is easier than at a state senator at a local town hall meeting. And it gets more press.
You are right!
For grandma, the printed books are useless - she needs a magnifying glass to RTSFP (Read The Smudgy Fine Print).
We're all getting older.
Which is more effective?
12 advantages of the Internet over the Yellow Pages
The Yellow Pages are as obsolete as that old ColecoVision.
to make telephone books (or newspapers for that matter),
now that we have the perfectly good Interweb (and ipads).
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
We haven't used our white or yellow phone books in years. I'm sure we're not alone.
Of course not, they expect them to call 411 and find out the number for $1.45 per request, rather than look it up in the phone book for free. It's what the pointy-haired phone company execs would call "monetizing informational resources". Yeah, there are free 411 services like Google's but many people don't even realize these services exist.
I have "naked DSL" with no dialtone at my house, so of course I get:
1. The telephone company's official phone book (which isn't actually produced by the telephone company, and hasn't been for years, and is so full of errors that the telephone company is forced to send a letter-to-the-editor of the local paper explaining that it's not their fault)
2. The paperback-sized one that's just for my side of the county, also from the telephone company.
3. Some unofficial book from some other publisher
4. Another copy of the same unofficial book stuffed into my tiny post office box.
And the office gets some huge number of all of the above, and an email goes out to everyone saying "new phone books are here! come get one if you want, and please put your old one in the next pile over for recycling."
So... I have been taking my old phone books and the new phone books to work, and putting them in the pile for recycling. Sure, it makes my bike heavier on the uphill commute to work, but hey, burn more calories, get rid of phone books, it's a win-win. :)
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
Because we all have them and know their technical capabilities. Grandmas have enough trouble using the phone, let alone handling tasks like left click and right click, understanding a web browser, the internet etc.
I've met some older women have no trouble with any of these things. I haven't met an 80yr old power user yet but I've met 70 yr olds who can browse alongside their grandchildren. Sadly, in the real world this is the exception and not the norm.
It isn't really about intellect. The elderly are afraid of change and for them digital interaction is change.
It's been like this in Norway for years.
point.
"Hi Dick, it's your Grandma. Cann you look up a number for me? Yes I know you gave me that computer-ma-jig to do it for me, but that's the problem you see. It broke and I need the number for a repair man"
You can advertise in this sig from as little as £99.99 a month!
It's not though.
I have seen some weird regional hybrid books with "selected" numbers. I can live with four complete phonebooks. Those "Selected" thingies are distracting.
But weren't the Telcos whining about 5 years ago "it's copyrighted"?
I'd LIKE a list in a parseable(sp?) format.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
For years now, the shredded White Pages have lined my Royal Python's tank and the Yellow Pages weighted down the lid. How dare they take away my free pet accessories!
Apparently the phone company will still send you a printed phone book if you call them and ask, How are the people without Internet, and now, without a phone book, supposed to find out what their number is?
No, for the FEW they need they can fucking call Information.
BTW if they are too old to use a PC they probably can't read the phone book.
I'm old, I adapted, so can they.
It's cruel not to wean people, and if you don't, more people latch onto the same teat.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Since I usually use the back door, and the front door is for taking out the trash, the last Yellow Pages I got never made it out of its plastic.
By all means, print a few white pages and give grandma the comfort on request but I've been wondering about this for years.
The Portuguese "pages" don't offer an API, but they use Javascript as a templating language, so if you check the html, there's a nice JSON list with the results, all with nice tags.
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They have reduced the font size so much that grandma needs a magnifying glass to read it... but it saved 10% on paper costs.
BTW, 411 automated speech systems and even the operators don't replace the ability of a person with a book to look up a number. The internet white pages and "fine a person" sites still don't provide the coverage of the phone book itself.
IMHO
The Phone Books for generations, have traditionally been the best booster seat ever invented for family get togethers around the dinner table. What will I do now for the Grand-kids to have them feel included at these important social gatherings. This is yet another threat to the stability of the family unit. :)
ATT has been doing this in large cities a year or two ago.
In fact, where I live, ATT has announced that, since it received so few requests for directories, it will stop printing them altogether. (Never mind that the automated phone number where you were supposed to call to request printed directories was broken.)
1. Grandma doesn't have WiFi (or any internet) at home
2. Grandma doesn't want to pay ATT 3G when she already pays for her olde landline.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Windows folk. Think yourself lucky he didn't diss the Mac one-button mouse in the same sentence as saying it's all-too-hard for Grandma.
Call the phone company and request 5-10 of them, so you have spares just in case.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
Or the internet. She has her own personal phone book of handwritten names, addresses, and phone numbers. It also has all kinds of additional data that isn't in the white pages like birthdays and anniversaries. She updates it whenever someone moves, and she knows which people in that phone book know other numbers so if she needs a new number for someone she can get it easily.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
For a long time I've been wondering "why do we need phone books?". Other than occasionally looking up the number of a business in the Yellow Pages, I have never used the phone book to find somebody's phone number (and I'm probably a lot older than the average Slashdot reader). I already know the phone numbers of my friends and relatives, so why do I need the numbers of a hundred thousand strangers? Then there's people with unlisted phone numbers and cell phones, none of which are listed in any phone book.
Don't worry about Grandma, she has all the phone numbers she need written on bits of paper, stuck to the front of the refrigerator.
This is a very good step!! Phonebooks are useless already because they don't contain cellphone numbers. Not that I would suggest that those should be included.
And grandma anyway can't find her reading glasses.... :-)
Browsers shouldn't have a back button!! It's all about going forward...
We get phone books delivered from at least 2 different companies. As well as a another one that's just yellow pages.
Yellow pages is horrible online... I have a better chance finding companies without websites on google then I do finding anything on the yellow pages website.
Most people don't have their computers running 24/7, and it takes a minute to boot up. I can find a number in a phone book far faster than I can boot a computer and look it up there.
And if you're looking at every page in the book, you have other problems as well. Of course, your misuse of the apostrophe in two instances (using it for a plural but not with a possessive) suggests to me that you may not have much experience with physical books, which may possibly be the problem here.
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Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto, Ottawa-Gatineau, Montreal and Quebec City
Quebec City no longer has an NHL franchise. They don't belong on the list.
Unless Canadian phone companies are currently sending phonebooks to Denver.
This would be fine and all, except there's no real online equivalent. Canada411.com is supposed to be the same thing, but it's got nowhere near the same listings as the printed phone book does.
So in this case, it's not really just a change in how it's delivered. It's degradation of the quality of the available information.
Until they fix that, I'll need to keep requesting the dead tree version. (Not to mention that version also works during a blackout when I need to call the power company and tell them there's a blackout.)
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
"Why do we act like grandma's are so stupid?"
You've obviously never met mine.
Just kidding, Grams. You're the best.
I'm not a nerd. Nerds are smart.
I use 'em for firestarter or toilet paper.
Last week I got another edition of the yellow pages. Before tossing it out, I decided to look up a type of business I had been meaning to look up for a while. I found a single ad-style listing with no address. I tossed the book right out.
This morning I tried looking up the same type of business on Google Maps. It found 344 results and pointed out a few of them on the map, one of which happens to be just a mile and a half from home.
Looking things up on the Internet is not only more convenient, it's also more informative and apparently more comprehensive.
I get 6 to 8 phone books a year from different local and long distance companies. The free compost is nice but it seems to be a rather wasteful way to deliver it.
http://nwbagpipes.com/
I would like to have my mobile number listed in the directory, yet no such option exists at any price. This is absurd.
Searches like that seem to work just fine up here in Canada. Mind you, I'd probably just look that up on my nuvi.
After working in Directory for several years, it's very clear that the phone company knows that they are selling advertising to just about every business with a phone number and delivering it to the door of millions of potential customers, and making a huge amount of money: only Wireline (what most people think of as The Phone Company) netted more and it took about ten times the number of people. The major successful effort is the categorization of businesses/products/services. As has been pointed out elsewhere here, reproducing the experience of the yellow pages online is very challenging, especially to an industry that historically thinks well managed change takes a decade to deploy and has a lifetime also measured in decades.
I have tried to get off these phone book distribtution lists for a long time. The delivery people don't use lists though; everyone gets one. In apartment complexes they dump a palet of the huge phone books and they do it semi-annually, if not more frequently. Their motivation is in the yellow pages - plain and simple advertisements. They make a a much higher profit on the book advertising than with online advertising. The only solution is to confront it by muicipality and require the bastards to use specific lists, giving residences opt-out capability.
As an apartment dweller, I've observed a monstrous pile of phone books get delivered to the mail room every year. It's always the same thing - after a few weeks, about 10% of the books are actually taken, and the rest get recycled. I'm very glad to see someone finally realize how ridiculous and wasteful this really is.
1-800-GOOG-411 its free and grandma can thing she is talking to a real person!
Why did you have to confuse the thread with facts?
Maybe nobody will notice your comment.
What happens if the power goes out, so you can't look up a number on the internet?
Ever since I had a phone in Canada (1995?), the phone books always went straight to the trash (well OK recycling bin). So they *finally* almost got the message. Almost, since they will still print the useless pages. Oh, well, what the hell.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
You have to pay everytime they come to pick up your trash?!?!
The city doesn't do that for free as a part of normal city services?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Is there anything more useless than the phone book these days? Right about now, TV Guide is laughing at the phone book.
If there was a way that I could opt out of getting that slab of dead tree dropped on my doorstep, I'd do it in a heartbeat. That thing weighs more than the computer that I can look up the same information on 100x faster and more accurately. Even if I did want the damn thing, there's nowhere to put it in my house, because it's so damn big. What am I supposed to do with that, throw it on the roof until I need it? Prop open a door?
Yeah, I know, it's made of whatever% of recycled paper, and is 100% recycleable. Unfortunately, it's also 100% useless, and a 100% waste of energy to deliver it to me, and for me to drop it directly in the recycle bin, and the trash hauler to take it away.
Thank $_DEITY they put them in those plastic bags to prevent them from getting wet while they moulder away on my porch though. I want them to be in pristine condition when I shitcan them. Hopefully I don't throw my back out lifting the fucker.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
The "white pages", asides from being offensive to minorities, is pretty much useless. But the yellow pages, ... I still consult those for local services. For example, Toronto is a BIG city, and the yellow pages are tailored to certain regions (ie: Central Toronto, East, West, North, etc) and I'd prefer to hire local for certain services (like say, a plumber). I could look online and hope they have kept up to date on this "new-fangled internetty thing" but ... meh.
Nope, most houses in the Houston area have to pay a trash company. Apartments have a contract for the residents, some home owners associations make it part of their dues, but a lot of homes are on their own.
I know what you're talking about though. Where I grew up in Pecos it was just part of the water bill and was a lot easier to deal with.
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atmosphere CO2 -> feeds trees -> feed paper plants -> feed phone-book production -> stored in houses/underground
That will help to save a lot of money
I think in Canada (Ontario specifically) we need to first look at a deregulation of our broadband services. We have made a bit of ground with our cell companies now we need our cable companies & ISP's to go through the same deregulation process. Right now there are only 2 main options Rogers or Bell in most areas. Sure some can argue there are a few other smaller companies like Cogeco but they only support a small area. Once my grandma can start to look at bundled internet & VOIP options for a good price then she can comfortably stop getting her phone book. In many cases baby boomers and the older generations alike have little interest in computers.
Key point here is that as many of these generations retire they will be on a fixed income so affordable solutions are key.