If the PSU lets you draw the power, then it's good. If the PSU has a 6-pin connector on the PSU end and various modular cables to give you 6, 6+2, 2x6, 1x8, 2x8, whatever pin combinations, then it's good. Assuming you trust your PSU to do what it says it can.
If you're using adapters/splitters beyond what the PSU comes with, or if you're running a bunch of other shit on +12v then you can overdraw on your +12v rail of course. But shit should just shut off at that point.
Well, I guess I'll burn some karma. It is still cheap garbage though. I try not to be elitist about this sort of thing but if you do your grocery shopping at Walmart you're eating the wrong stuff. It is mostly crap I wouldn't feed my dog and while you might argue that other chains have similar content, the fact is that those other stores at least make an effort to have a few isles of healthy "hipster" foods. People of course claim that the cheap prices make it a good option for the lower income consumer but if you observe the majority of those consumers in the store... they don't exactly look starved for calories.
Any "Super" Walmart will have a full grocery, including the same produce from the same farms and distributors as other supermarkets in the area.
No damaged components have been demonstrated or proven. Yes, you do need to prove things when you're making such allegations. The most detailed "report" of damage was proven to be a troll.
AMD didn't "write a whole new driver". They simply underclocked the card a bit.
Standards exist for a reason and they are written by people who are a whole lot smarter than arrogant d-bags named "sexconker" who have never designed a single product in their lives but sure have god complexes.
The RX 480 is standards-compliant and has passed all PCI SIG testing. PCI SIG does not enforce or even test for power draw. All those smart people must have a reason for not testing for power draw. I wonder if they've read spec sheets for connectors and know that the PCIe pins and motherboard traces won't burn up even if you double the current running over them.
You can get a 4GB reference version now for $199 and unlock it to use all 8 GB. That's amazing performance/cost. If my local Best Buy had them in stock I'd jump on it. Thankfully, they don't. I'm trying to hold out for the HBM2 cards in early 2017.
The 6-pin cable can give you 150 W and still be in spec with regards to draw since they're functionally using it as an 8-pin by dropping the sense and using it as an additional ground.
The ATX12v spec lists recommended wire gauges and current ratings on the +12v rail. Running a 6-pin as an 8-pin is non-standard but completely within spec with regards to power draw and miles safety.
They're using a 6-pin as an 8-pin by using the sense pin as an additional ground. They've segregated the RAM and GPU power in such a way that without a 6-pin cable the card won't power up, so you don't need the sense pin on the 6-pin cable.
Other designs using the RX 480 will have 8-pin cables, 8-pin and 6-pin cables, etc., if for no other reason than to appeal to people who blindly believe this is a problem.
The reality is that there apparently already are motherboards that have probably died because of AMD's egregious violation of the specs; there are probably PSUs that have also died because of these cards.
The motherboards and PSUs that died were likely within spec, but couldn't handle a PCIe card that was running out of spec. That's the bottom line here.
Show me a mobo that has died. The most detailed report I've seen, with pictures, was a troll post. Everything else has been a drive by accusation.
The issue here is that on average the Rx 480 was easily drawing well above the limits for a motherboard slot. Over the long-term, this sustained out of spec power draw can cause problems on motherboards, particularly cheap motherboards. When you consider that a low price was a major advertising point on the Rx 480 launch, expecting all of the Rx 480 owners to be running premium X99 motherboards that cost $300+ -- which is exactly what AMD did when demonstrating the Rx 480 on-stage at Computex -- is unrealistic.
Demonstrate how this damage can occur. Show your math. Find me a motherboard with traces so thin that shit will burn out at a sustained 85 W. Or find a PCIe connector that has pins thin enough to burn up.
You're wrong again. The RX 480 uses the 6-pin cable as an 8-pin cable. It ignores the sense pin and uses it as a ground, which is how it is wired. This gives 3 pairs and allows you to pull as much as an 8-pin while still being in spec with regards to power draw, though out of spec with regards to implementation.
It's completely safe. It's not the first card to draw past spec on the 6-pin or 8-pin cables, and it won't be the last.
If you look at 6+2 pin cables on PSUs, you'll see that the +2 pins are simply extensions of the 6-pin plug. You're not getting more physical pairs in those 6+2 pin cables, yet you're drawing up to twice the current! OUT OF SPEC!!! DOOM AND GLOOM!!! Oh wait, it's completely fine.
Read the specs and look at the physical implementations.
PCI SIG neither enforces nor tests power draw compliance. They don't care. They don't care because it's not an issue. It's not the first device (or GPU) to overdraw on the slot and it won't be the last. You could draw double the spec and be fine in most cases. The worst case scenario is going to be an unstable system that shuts down on high load if you've got a crappy +12v rail feeding the main ATX connector.
This is the dumbest fucking trend. Why would you put that shit over the network? Why not just put the PC in a separate room and run video, audio, and USB? (Or DisplayPort or ExpensivePort carrying them all in one.)
Or, build a PC that isn't super loud and put it right by the giant TV. We've got huge SSDs and PSUs that won't spin the fan until they hit like 80% load. A modest CPU heatsink & fan will be nearly silent. There are very quiet versions of the high end GPUs too.
If you sell your working car for 5000 and buy a new car for 35000 the resale value of your car was NEGATIVE 30000. You have the same utility - a functioning car - and you paid 30000 for it.
The new car may be nicer and that may be worth some money, and it may have slightly lower operating costs, but it's certainly not 30000 worth of a difference.
Your next "argument" is going to be that I'm forgetting the resale value of the new car. The resale value of an item means nothing until you plan on selling it and not replacing it.
Overwatch is 12 players per game. It's not a big deal to send each client ONLY the data they can see. Plenty of games do this properly. And encryption adds microseconds per frame at worst. Get with the times.
Of course, Blizzard thinks it's okay to run Overwatch (a fast-paced FPS) at 20 simulations per second, so...
Terminator crops exist, from onions to garlic to watermelons to grapes to corn to soybeans to....
Spraying with pesticides has everything to do with GMO food, as GMO food is modified to be resistant to those pesticides so you can use more of them, new and deadlier versions of the, etc.
For decades they've blocked the use of such labels in the US.
Only recently has this been allowed, and only last year has a standard label been designed. A handful of products have been certified to use the USDA's standard label.
Anytime you want to slap a label on something about how your product doesn't contain the awful shit another product does, you get a massive push back, lawsuits, etc. that can last decades. Look at the fight the milk lobby put up against the hormone labeling. You can't say your butter comes from cows without buckets of hormones without also saying "those hormones were never proven to directly cause cancer" (and you could never prove it because to do so you'd have to inject humans with the hormones directly while believe that it could, which would be unethical). The same battle was fought over eggs with regards to cage free and antibiotic free.
You can't just go around and say your product doesn't have trash in it because there's an entire lobby of trash that will sue you at every step.
Are all humans working with them perfect and not malevolent? (No.) Can we ensure no cross contamination or impact to other species (plants, insects, whatever) is ever possible? (No.)
Further:
A select few individuals on the planet control the vast majority of the food supply. They control the direction its going, the cost to buy seeds, and the seeds themselves because they've been engineered not to germinate or produce viable offspring past the first generation.
The food supply becomes increasingly monoculturistic and susceptible to infestation, plague, or other failure, at a global scale.
The crops are sprayed with increasingly potent pesticides which end up in the soil, in the water, in the plant (not just on it), and in our bodies. These chemicals are known to fuck you up.
Auto means self. Pilot means pilot. If you call something an autopilot and it can't pilot the vehicle in the vast majority of situations autonomously, you're misrepresenting it.
It makes sense if the car was traveling uphill and the computer doesn't take that into account or the sensors are just fixed at a single point regardless of incline. And yes, we had a story of an auto parking Tesla hit a trailer.
You know, a country with money's a little like a mule with a spinning wheel. No one knows how he got it and danged if it knows how to use it .
Heh-heh, mule.
The name's Musk, Elon Musk. And I come before you good people tonight with an idea. Probably the greatest—Aw, it's not for you. It's more of a China idea.
Now, wait just a minute. We're twice as smart as the people of China. Just tell us your idea and we'll give you subsidies for it.
All right. I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll show you my idea. I give you the Tesla Autopilotl!
I've sold autopilots to Plymouth, Oldsmobile, and Studebaker, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothin' on earth like a genuine bona-fide electrified one-car autopilot! What'd I say?
Slashdot Mirror
Auto means self. Pilot means pilot.
If you call something an autopilot it must pilot itself.
If the PSU lets you draw the power, then it's good. If the PSU has a 6-pin connector on the PSU end and various modular cables to give you 6, 6+2, 2x6, 1x8, 2x8, whatever pin combinations, then it's good.
Assuming you trust your PSU to do what it says it can.
If you're using adapters/splitters beyond what the PSU comes with, or if you're running a bunch of other shit on +12v then you can overdraw on your +12v rail of course. But shit should just shut off at that point.
Well, I guess I'll burn some karma. It is still cheap garbage though. I try not to be elitist about this sort of thing but if you do your grocery shopping at Walmart you're eating the wrong stuff. It is mostly crap I wouldn't feed my dog and while you might argue that other chains have similar content, the fact is that those other stores at least make an effort to have a few isles of healthy "hipster" foods. People of course claim that the cheap prices make it a good option for the lower income consumer but if you observe the majority of those consumers in the store... they don't exactly look starved for calories.
Any "Super" Walmart will have a full grocery, including the same produce from the same farms and distributors as other supermarkets in the area.
It's all about the Benjamins, although I don't suppose we can call them that if we're paying with a phone app.
It's all about the Tubmans.
I wonder how much CajunArson is getting paid.
No damaged components have been demonstrated or proven. Yes, you do need to prove things when you're making such allegations. The most detailed "report" of damage was proven to be a troll.
AMD didn't "write a whole new driver". They simply underclocked the card a bit.
Standards exist for a reason and they are written by people who are a whole lot smarter than arrogant d-bags named "sexconker" who have never designed a single product in their lives but sure have god complexes.
The RX 480 is standards-compliant and has passed all PCI SIG testing. PCI SIG does not enforce or even test for power draw. All those smart people must have a reason for not testing for power draw. I wonder if they've read spec sheets for connectors and know that the PCIe pins and motherboard traces won't burn up even if you double the current running over them.
Please try using facts.
You can get a 4GB reference version now for $199 and unlock it to use all 8 GB.
That's amazing performance/cost. If my local Best Buy had them in stock I'd jump on it. Thankfully, they don't. I'm trying to hold out for the HBM2 cards in early 2017.
The 6-pin cable can give you 150 W and still be in spec with regards to draw since they're functionally using it as an 8-pin by dropping the sense and using it as an additional ground.
The ATX12v spec lists recommended wire gauges and current ratings on the +12v rail. Running a 6-pin as an 8-pin is non-standard but completely within spec with regards to power draw and miles safety.
Check the ATX12v Power Supply Design Guide.
They're using a 6-pin as an 8-pin by using the sense pin as an additional ground. They've segregated the RAM and GPU power in such a way that without a 6-pin cable the card won't power up, so you don't need the sense pin on the 6-pin cable.
Other designs using the RX 480 will have 8-pin cables, 8-pin and 6-pin cables, etc., if for no other reason than to appeal to people who blindly believe this is a problem.
The reality is that there apparently already are motherboards that have probably died because of AMD's egregious violation of the specs; there are probably PSUs that have also died because of these cards.
The motherboards and PSUs that died were likely within spec, but couldn't handle a PCIe card that was running out of spec. That's the bottom line here.
Show me a mobo that has died. The most detailed report I've seen, with pictures, was a troll post. Everything else has been a drive by accusation.
The issue here is that on average the Rx 480 was easily drawing well above the limits for a motherboard slot. Over the long-term, this sustained out of spec power draw can cause problems on motherboards, particularly cheap motherboards. When you consider that a low price was a major advertising point on the Rx 480 launch, expecting all of the Rx 480 owners to be running premium X99 motherboards that cost $300+ -- which is exactly what AMD did when demonstrating the Rx 480 on-stage at Computex -- is unrealistic.
Demonstrate how this damage can occur. Show your math. Find me a motherboard with traces so thin that shit will burn out at a sustained 85 W. Or find a PCIe connector that has pins thin enough to burn up.
Spec sheets and math or STFU.
If you've worked "at the top levels" in tech/finance for 3 decades, you could have retired 2 decades ago.
You're wrong again. The RX 480 uses the 6-pin cable as an 8-pin cable. It ignores the sense pin and uses it as a ground, which is how it is wired. This gives 3 pairs and allows you to pull as much as an 8-pin while still being in spec with regards to power draw, though out of spec with regards to implementation.
It's completely safe. It's not the first card to draw past spec on the 6-pin or 8-pin cables, and it won't be the last.
If you look at 6+2 pin cables on PSUs, you'll see that the +2 pins are simply extensions of the 6-pin plug. You're not getting more physical pairs in those 6+2 pin cables, yet you're drawing up to twice the current! OUT OF SPEC!!! DOOM AND GLOOM!!! Oh wait, it's completely fine.
Read the specs and look at the physical implementations.
PCI SIG neither enforces nor tests power draw compliance. They don't care.
They don't care because it's not an issue. It's not the first device (or GPU) to overdraw on the slot and it won't be the last. You could draw double the spec and be fine in most cases. The worst case scenario is going to be an unstable system that shuts down on high load if you've got a crappy +12v rail feeding the main ATX connector.
This is the dumbest fucking trend. Why would you put that shit over the network?
Why not just put the PC in a separate room and run video, audio, and USB? (Or DisplayPort or ExpensivePort carrying them all in one.)
Or, build a PC that isn't super loud and put it right by the giant TV. We've got huge SSDs and PSUs that won't spin the fan until they hit like 80% load. A modest CPU heatsink & fan will be nearly silent. There are very quiet versions of the high end GPUs too.
If you sell your working car for 5000 and buy a new car for 35000 the resale value of your car was NEGATIVE 30000.
You have the same utility - a functioning car - and you paid 30000 for it.
The new car may be nicer and that may be worth some money, and it may have slightly lower operating costs, but it's certainly not 30000 worth of a difference.
Your next "argument" is going to be that I'm forgetting the resale value of the new car. The resale value of an item means nothing until you plan on selling it and not replacing it.
Overwatch is 12 players per game. It's not a big deal to send each client ONLY the data they can see. Plenty of games do this properly.
And encryption adds microseconds per frame at worst. Get with the times.
Of course, Blizzard thinks it's okay to run Overwatch (a fast-paced FPS) at 20 simulations per second, so...
Terminator crops exist, from onions to garlic to watermelons to grapes to corn to soybeans to....
Spraying with pesticides has everything to do with GMO food, as GMO food is modified to be resistant to those pesticides so you can use more of them, new and deadlier versions of the, etc.
You have no idea what this issue is about.
For decades they've blocked the use of such labels in the US.
Only recently has this been allowed, and only last year has a standard label been designed. A handful of products have been certified to use the USDA's standard label.
Anytime you want to slap a label on something about how your product doesn't contain the awful shit another product does, you get a massive push back, lawsuits, etc. that can last decades. Look at the fight the milk lobby put up against the hormone labeling. You can't say your butter comes from cows without buckets of hormones without also saying "those hormones were never proven to directly cause cancer" (and you could never prove it because to do so you'd have to inject humans with the hormones directly while believe that it could, which would be unethical). The same battle was fought over eggs with regards to cage free and antibiotic free.
You can't just go around and say your product doesn't have trash in it because there's an entire lobby of trash that will sue you at every step.
Assume all modifications are safe.
Are all humans working with them perfect and not malevolent? (No.)
Can we ensure no cross contamination or impact to other species (plants, insects, whatever) is ever possible? (No.)
Further:
A select few individuals on the planet control the vast majority of the food supply. They control the direction its going, the cost to buy seeds, and the seeds themselves because they've been engineered not to germinate or produce viable offspring past the first generation.
The food supply becomes increasingly monoculturistic and susceptible to infestation, plague, or other failure, at a global scale.
The crops are sprayed with increasingly potent pesticides which end up in the soil, in the water, in the plant (not just on it), and in our bodies. These chemicals are known to fuck you up.
I don't expect you to read Mr. Bond, I expect you to click!
Auto means self. Pilot means pilot.
If you call something an autopilot and it can't pilot the vehicle in the vast majority of situations autonomously, you're misrepresenting it.
It makes sense if the car was traveling uphill and the computer doesn't take that into account or the sensors are just fixed at a single point regardless of incline.
And yes, we had a story of an auto parking Tesla hit a trailer.
You know, a country with money's a little like a mule with a spinning wheel. No one knows how he got it and danged if it knows how to use it .
Heh-heh, mule.
The name's Musk, Elon Musk. And I come before you good people tonight with an idea. Probably the greatest—Aw, it's not for you. It's more of a China idea.
Now, wait just a minute. We're twice as smart as the people of China. Just tell us your idea and we'll give you subsidies for it.
All right. I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll show you my idea. I give you the Tesla Autopilotl!
I've sold autopilots to Plymouth, Oldsmobile, and Studebaker, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothin' on earth like a genuine bona-fide electrified one-car autopilot! What'd I say?
Autopilot!
What's it called?
Autopilot.
That's right! Autopilot!
Autopilot, autopilot, autopilot, autopilot, autopilot...
I hear those things are awfully new.
It's user tested, but not by you.
Is there a chance the car could crash?
It's not your life, so splash the cash.
First adopters must be brave...
They'll be given early graves.
Will this venture fund new green jobs?
No, good sir, I'm the new Steve Jobs.
We've killed off our whole space program.
Fund my SpaceX, my good man.
I swear, it's the country's only choice! Log in to PayPal and raise your voice!
Autopilot
What's it called?
Autopilot
AUTOPILOT!
But the economy's still all fucked and broken.
Subsidies, this man has stolen!
Autopilot
Autopilot
Autopilot!
Autopilot!!!
Auto...*CRASH*
Not NULL encryption.