Nowhere did I say this, but I did say, at the very minimum, somebody at the FBI should have been notified that these two were boarding aircraft.
If they were on a watch list it was for a reason, a reason which has now become obviously painful.
Re:They talked about this on the "O'Reilly Factor"
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That's the position O'Reilly presented to Torticelli and kind of hammered him with it. He also said leaving the decisions in Washington, where they don't the region being covered locally, is not a good idea.
However, Torticelli said that somebody needed to be accountable for hiring people who may in turn do horrible things, which is a valid point.
The compromise O'Reilly proposed, which I think is a good one is to have the field officer report to whatever their boss is in the local region. And have that person answer for any problems.
I've been repeating it over and over, thanks for saying it too.
Bin Laden is primarely upset that we dared set foot on Saudi Arabia, "Holy Land". Ironically as the poster said, it was to his own countries benefit, if not his own fanatical leanings.
Oh, 9 out of 10 dollars in foreign aid to Afghanistan come from the US, last year we sent over 40 million in drought relief.
Yup, no rational action of cause and effect when you are dealing with "Holy Warriors" and Theocratic despotic governments.
[insert obvious WWII statement here about the usefullness of military action against Germany and Japan]
They talked about this on the "O'Reilly Factor" ..
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Senator Torticelli is the one blamed with this rule, but it doesn't really mean that you can't papy informants that have comminted "human rights violations". It just means that the field officer has to ask permission of the CIA director (all the way up !) to do so.
Many claim this is an unecessary bureocratic step, others say it's necessary so field officers don't go acting like rogue agents.
I think the problem was not so much the law, but the current CIA director. No one on the CIA likes him, and he seems to have shot down many of the field officer proposals.
A match of my face, if discarded when I turn out to have no criminal record, well that's probably OK for me. If I have to show ID to get on the plane anyway, why object?
That's what I'm talking about, in this case, it would have helped.
I don't think most people want to be recorded and followed 24/7, but like most things there's a middle ground here and we should explore it with no need to react "LET'S TRACK EVERYBODY" or "DON'T RECOGNIZE MY FACE".
... in this case is a code word to Islamic radicals who are hell bent on destroying non-radical Islamic states.
They might not say it, but it sure at heck is the current aim of the government.
The question might not be, can we stop terrorism ? But can we stop violent fundamentalist Islamic radicals.
I don't know if we can, altought if their societies were more "advanced" I think it would help. Either way, Bin Laden and the corrupt Taliban are good targets to eliminate as a starting point.
They were on a terrorist watch list, they would have at least stopped them and been able to note both of them carrying box cutters and maybe even one of them being trained as a pilot.
They could also have connected them to the other 2 or 3 people in the plane.
If you can't see how stopping these two would have prevented further carnage, then you really are not even trying to understand.
BTW, what freedom is restricted by checking your face ? They are supposed to check your ID at the very least, is that a restriction on freedom too ? Where does it say you must enter an airplane anonymously ?
We have proven in a court of law that he was behind the first WTC bombing. He's also attacked us several times. In the Cole situation he didn't take credit until much later.
Can he lie ? Hell yes, if it "helps" his cause.
Notice how some of the "Holy Warriors" drank and visited a strip club before dying, when women in their country can't even show their arms !!!
He has a little "exceiption clause" in his belief system, that says when you are fighting the infidels you must behave and act like them. I'm sure he has other clauses that allow him to sin. Keep in mind this guy and the perverted Taliban are the arbitrors of their own brand of Islam, so they can mold it and fit it to their needs.
... obviously a face recognition system is not the only solution, but a good improvement over the current system.
A solution doesn't have to be absolute for it to be implemented, and I just don't see what's wrong with doing a face scan before getting on the airplane.
Hey, rest assured, next time they might not use their own names. And once the system is in place, they'll need disguses. But whatever makes it more difficult, the better it is for the public.
I'm getting sick of this line of thinking, and people still fail to read the bastard's own words and motivations.
No matter what, the FIRST and MAIN reason this guy hates the US is because we set FOOT on Holy Land, Saudi Arabia.
I know you want to look for a higher or nobler motivation, but that's the main one. We know it, he knows it and has explained it over and over.
So, it is OBVIOUS, he hates us because of a fanatical view that we infidels soiled his Holy land. Now, you want to reason with a fanatic like this, go ahead. Hopefully he won't behead you if you are a journalist.
BTW, read Bin Laden's own manuals on the internet, the main purpuse of his organization is to replace all infidel governments with Taliban like Theocracies.
... his main complaint it not "our views" or even policies, his main complaint to wage Holy War against us is that we dared set foot on "Holy" land , Sauidi Arabia.
Never mind that the Saudi government gave us permission, BTW.
Also, the main goal of Bin Laden's and Taliban like militia movement is to replace all infidel governments with righteous radical fundamentalist Muslim one's, read their propaganda.
So basically, they'll be happy once we cover our women up with masks and pray 5 times a day to Allah. Then they'll leave us alone.
Read carefully, I wasn't saying we should give them relief money, just that that's what done. The initial poster seemed to imply we fund the Taliban. That's totally wrong.
On the other hand, we do need to find ways to improve the lot of life of some of these people, civilization is the only way to get them out of their fanatical leanings. But throwing money at them is a simplistic solution after all.
And BTW, most of the items you listed have been covered greatly on the news, specially the prejudice against Arab Americans. They've been talking about that all day on ABC, CNN, and even MTV.
Yeah, or use carry on luggage as misseles against the terrorists.
Actually, a laptop would be a great weapon against them , imagine being hit in the head repeatedly with a laptop.
However, my guess is that this didn't happen in the other flights because they didn't know they monsters were going to go kamikaze, plus they were threatening that they had a bomb, which was obviously fake.
This trick won't work again, but then again, I'm sure these rats will use another type of attack in the future.
Oh yes, one more thing. The images of Palestinians celebrating in Israel you have seen on the news are most likely fake. In a manner of speaking, anyway. They are from 1991 and unrelated to anything going on currently.
Oh but wait, an anonymous internet website that offers no proof is more credible than our corporate eviiiiil media, no ? Please.
BIN LADEN UNDER HOUSE ARREST !
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Taliban wisend up ? They must be really scared about getting bombed after all, but this is probably just "symbolic". I'm still waiting for the president to give them the 24 hour warning to turn him in.
Afghanistan's ruling Taliban militia had placed alleged terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden under house arrest in the wake of the suicide attacks on the United States, an Arabic online newspaper reported.
Quoting "fundamentalist Arab sources", Ilaf said the "Taliban have arrested Osama bin Laden before placing him under surveillance with several of his assistants," including the head of the Egyptian branch of Al-Jihad Ayman Al-Zawahri and bin Laden's military commander, Muhammad Atef Al-Makni.
"A number of Afghan fighters are under house arrest along with bin Laden," said the report late Wednesday.
But a diplomat at the Taliban's embassy in Abu Dhabi said he could not confirm the report.
"All we know is that he (bin Laden) is somewhere in Afghanistan, but we are not aware if he is under house arrest," the diplomat said.
Bin Laden and commander Atef have been indicted for the 1998 bombings of the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.
Bin Laden has emerged as the prime suspects in yesterday's kamikaze hijacked passenger jet strikes on New York and Washington.
I think we pretty much understand the culture of the terrorists, a fanatical and suicadal culture. They need to be exterminated, they want to die anyways, let's do them a favor.
Slashdot Mirror
Nowhere did I say this, but I did say, at the very minimum, somebody at the FBI should have been notified that these two were boarding aircraft.
If they were on a watch list it was for a reason, a reason which has now become obviously painful.
That's the position O'Reilly presented to Torticelli and kind of hammered him with it. He also said leaving the decisions in Washington, where they don't the region being covered locally, is not a good idea.
However, Torticelli said that somebody needed to be accountable for hiring people who may in turn do horrible things, which is a valid point.
The compromise O'Reilly proposed, which I think is a good one is to have the field officer report to whatever their boss is in the local region. And have that person answer for any problems.
> Change your country's foreign policy, yes.
That's not Bin Laden's goal.
His goal is to attack us because we dared touch his "Holy" land, never mind it was to protect Saudi Arabia from Iraq.
The main goal of his org is to replace all infidel governments with righteous Islamic fundamentatist Theocracies like the Taliban.
Guess what, I'm not about to cover up my wife like a mummy and grow a beard.
I've been repeating it over and over, thanks for saying it too.
Bin Laden is primarely upset that we dared set foot on Saudi Arabia, "Holy Land". Ironically as the poster said, it was to his own countries benefit, if not his own fanatical leanings.
Oh, 9 out of 10 dollars in foreign aid to Afghanistan come from the US, last year we sent over 40 million in drought relief.
Yup, no rational action of cause and effect when you are dealing with "Holy Warriors" and Theocratic despotic governments.
> What is it good for?
> Absolutely nothing.
[insert obvious WWII statement here about the usefullness of military action against Germany and Japan]
Senator Torticelli is the one blamed with this rule, but it doesn't really mean that you can't papy informants that have comminted "human rights violations". It just means that the field officer has to ask permission of the CIA director (all the way up !) to do so.
Many claim this is an unecessary bureocratic step, others say it's necessary so field officers don't go acting like rogue agents.
I think the problem was not so much the law, but the current CIA director. No one on the CIA likes him, and he seems to have shot down many of the field officer proposals.
A match of my face, if discarded when I turn out to have no criminal record, well that's probably OK for me. If I have to show ID to get on the plane anyway, why object?
That's what I'm talking about, in this case, it would have helped.
I don't think most people want to be recorded and followed 24/7, but like most things there's a middle ground here and we should explore it with no need to react "LET'S TRACK EVERYBODY" or "DON'T RECOGNIZE MY FACE".
Extremes don't help, just look at the hijackers.
... in this case is a code word to Islamic radicals who are hell bent on destroying non-radical Islamic states.
They might not say it, but it sure at heck is the current aim of the government.
The question might not be, can we stop terrorism ? But can we stop violent fundamentalist Islamic radicals.
I don't know if we can, altought if their societies were more "advanced" I think it would help. Either way, Bin Laden and the corrupt Taliban are good targets to eliminate as a starting point.
"Bin Laden's head on a pike" has already been clearly proclaimed.
Not to mention an end to the Theocratic and corrupt Taliban.
They were on a terrorist watch list, they would have at least stopped them and been able to note both of them carrying box cutters and maybe even one of them being trained as a pilot.
They could also have connected them to the other 2 or 3 people in the plane.
If you can't see how stopping these two would have prevented further carnage, then you really are not even trying to understand.
BTW, what freedom is restricted by checking your face ? They are supposed to check your ID at the very least, is that a restriction on freedom too ? Where does it say you must enter an airplane anonymously ?
BTW 2, one of them had a FL arrest warrant too.
We have proven in a court of law that he was behind the first WTC bombing. He's also attacked us several times. In the Cole situation he didn't take credit until much later.
Can he lie ? Hell yes, if it "helps" his cause.
Notice how some of the "Holy Warriors" drank and visited a strip club before dying, when women in their country can't even show their arms !!!
He has a little "exceiption clause" in his belief system, that says when you are fighting the infidels you must behave and act like them. I'm sure he has other clauses that allow him to sin. Keep in mind this guy and the perverted Taliban are the arbitrors of their own brand of Islam, so they can mold it and fit it to their needs.
Where any of these bastards in the massacre of WTC/Pentagon on the FBI's list?
e ct_had_outstanding_warrant_in_broward_1.html
Yes they were, 2 of them. One even had a warrant (but it wasn't terrorist related).
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/sun/20010917/lo/susp
... 2 of the terrorist were on the "Watch List".
They had pictures of both, I think one of them was on video meeting with a previous terrorist in the Cole attack if I remember correctly.
So 2 things could have stopped them;
1) CHECKING HIS NAME (Duh !)
2) Facial recognition scan before boarding.
We should definetely do (1), but (2) wouldn't hurt either.
... that we not bother the poor little terrorist network, the radical fundamentalist islamic one that is attacking, and leave things as is.
Yup, what a great idea. Let's just wait for them to get a hold of nuclear material and do nothing then either.
... obviously a face recognition system is not the only solution, but a good improvement over the current system.
A solution doesn't have to be absolute for it to be implemented, and I just don't see what's wrong with doing a face scan before getting on the airplane.
Hey, rest assured, next time they might not use their own names. And once the system is in place, they'll need disguses. But whatever makes it more difficult, the better it is for the public.
... for possible terrorist activities.
Detecting when they're going in a plane is a big deal, don't you think ?
I'm getting sick of this line of thinking, and people still fail to read the bastard's own words and motivations.
No matter what, the FIRST and MAIN reason this guy hates the US is because we set FOOT on Holy Land, Saudi Arabia.
I know you want to look for a higher or nobler motivation, but that's the main one. We know it, he knows it and has explained it over and over.
So, it is OBVIOUS, he hates us because of a fanatical view that we infidels soiled his Holy land. Now, you want to reason with a fanatic like this, go ahead. Hopefully he won't behead you if you are a journalist.
BTW, read Bin Laden's own manuals on the internet, the main purpuse of his organization is to replace all infidel governments with Taliban like Theocracies.
Are you ready to convert ?
... his main complaint it not "our views" or even policies, his main complaint to wage Holy War against us is that we dared set foot on "Holy" land , Sauidi Arabia.
Never mind that the Saudi government gave us permission, BTW.
Also, the main goal of Bin Laden's and Taliban like militia movement is to replace all infidel governments with righteous radical fundamentalist Muslim one's, read their propaganda.
So basically, they'll be happy once we cover our women up with masks and pray 5 times a day to Allah. Then they'll leave us alone.
Read carefully, I wasn't saying we should give them relief money, just that that's what done. The initial poster seemed to imply we fund the Taliban. That's totally wrong.
On the other hand, we do need to find ways to improve the lot of life of some of these people, civilization is the only way to get them out of their fanatical leanings. But throwing money at them is a simplistic solution after all.
It's not "funding" so much as relief, you make it sound like we're actually paying the Taliban's bills.
/ fact/17may01.htm
For the love of God, please get your facts straight ;
Fact Sheet: U.S. Increases Aid to Relieve Afghan Crisis ($43 million to include wheat, food, health care, shelter) http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/nea/sasia/afghan
And BTW, most of the items you listed have been covered greatly on the news, specially the prejudice against Arab Americans. They've been talking about that all day on ABC, CNN, and even MTV.
(not sure if you'll read this)
:: Bin-Laden Poster Seen at Gaza Rally
:: Palestinians on Defensive After Attacks in U.S.
Well, there are even more articles about this now ;
AP
AP
Yeah, or use carry on luggage as misseles against the terrorists.
Actually, a laptop would be a great weapon against them , imagine being hit in the head repeatedly with a laptop.
However, my guess is that this didn't happen in the other flights because they didn't know they monsters were going to go kamikaze, plus they were threatening that they had a bomb, which was obviously fake.
This trick won't work again, but then again, I'm sure these rats will use another type of attack in the future.
Oh yes, one more thing. The images of Palestinians celebrating in Israel you have seen on the news are most likely fake. In a manner of speaking, anyway. They are from 1991 and unrelated to anything going on currently.
... you imply the Palestinians are complaining about old footage. Funny, let's see ...
Palestinian Authority threatens camera crews covering celebrations
Oh but wait, an anonymous internet website that offers no proof is more credible than our corporate eviiiiil media, no ? Please.
Taliban wisend up ? They must be really scared about getting bombed after all, but this is probably just "symbolic". I'm still waiting for the president to give them the 24 hour warning to turn him in.
a apworld/1000336445-1141825578.html
http://au.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/20010913/
Bin Laden under house arrest: report
Afghanistan's ruling Taliban militia had placed alleged terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden under house arrest in the wake of the suicide attacks on the United States, an Arabic online newspaper reported.
Quoting "fundamentalist Arab sources", Ilaf said the "Taliban have arrested Osama bin Laden before placing him under surveillance with several of his assistants," including the head of the Egyptian branch of Al-Jihad Ayman Al-Zawahri and bin Laden's military commander, Muhammad Atef Al-Makni.
"A number of Afghan fighters are under house arrest along with bin Laden," said the report late Wednesday.
But a diplomat at the Taliban's embassy in Abu Dhabi said he could not confirm the report.
"All we know is that he (bin Laden) is somewhere in Afghanistan, but we are not aware if he is under house arrest," the diplomat said.
Bin Laden and commander Atef have been indicted for the 1998 bombings of the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.
Bin Laden has emerged as the prime suspects in yesterday's kamikaze hijacked passenger jet strikes on New York and Washington.
Lack of understanding for cultures ?
I think we pretty much understand the culture of the terrorists, a fanatical and suicadal culture. They need to be exterminated, they want to die anyways, let's do them a favor.