They built a sweet OS X system that uses a CELL chip from IBM.... Obtw, here's our order for 6million Core 2 Duo and Quad CPUs... volume pricing hasn't changed... correct?"
They were small potatoes for IBM, what makes you think they're hot shit with Intel?
That's the way this industry works, one comes out ahead for a while, and then the competitor surges ahead.
Good point. I'd also like to add that the Opteron is the first time AMD has forged ahead in both price and performance in my memory. The fact that the current generation has slipped in performance does not erase AMD's newfound ability to compete as more than an x86 knockoff company.
Opteron didn't kill Intel and Core Duo won't kill AMD. Intel will have to be much better and AMD screw up much worse to go back to the old days.
This is the beginning of the end, finally. In a few years, Microsoft will be irrelevant.
to which I reply
Then you're an idiot.
I swear, it's like listening to Christian zealots waiting for the rapture. "This time, by God, the world will end...nope this time...nope this time. Face it my friend, evil will always triumph because good is FOSS.
I take it you're running older copy of Debian on a PIII? Waiting occurs more when the product is either too expensive or lacks an excitement factor. And waiting really is only a choice for those who are capable of upgrading their machines.
Several of my Mac coworkers are simply falling over themselves waiting for the latest Mac product. Windows products are just simply "there" on most desktops and have mostly ceased to be a wonder. A user buys the computer and it comes with the current windows OS: Transaction over and done.
I'm almost certain that the US will NOT be seeing a price drop. Why? Pricing comparison...
Perhaps, but don't underestimate the force of the "me too!" emotion. Well, at least I can say the "core" PS3 is more worthwhile than the core Xbox360. The only difference now is the wi-fi, hd size, & memory card capability. None of those features are show-stopping differences.
Well shoot y'all. I live in West "By God" Virginia and I'm looking for some nice beach front property. This Global Warmin' you varmits speak of taint nothin'.
I am not a "dedicated gamer" but I am a ex console junkie who moved on to mmos
There is something, I dunno, strange about a MMO player who feels depressed about the lack of innovation and rehashed game concepts in other game types.
Ok, so I admit I'm a Sony whore because of the PS[X] RPG library. So I'm not unbiased about the XBox360.
But I don't understand what Microsoft is doing with all these optional upgrades. I think another poster pointed out that consoles are meant to be standardized hardware platforms. So why is MS attempting to play catch up if features like Blu-Ray and 1080P are useless frivolities?
I mean a developer can create a Blu-Ray HD game without having to worry if the user has an external HD-DVD drive or provide a 1080P resolution option without caring if the console has been upgraded. I mean the next thing you know, MS will have copied a copier and provide motion sensitive controllers.
The true question is if the Earth is a large enough mass to contain the resulting Fanboy pride. Two perfect entities, merging together into something better than perfection? The mind cannot retain its sanity in the fact of such truth, anymore than it can gaze upon the face of God.
Whole religions were started for less my mortal brethren.
I see your point. But that doesn't mean everyone is going to agree in numbers sufficient to put Nintendo on top. But you know what I would consider true innovation?
A mouse and keyboard
Now that would truly be a quantum leap in console interface technology.
The great thing about this is that the controller will very quickly cease to be a novelty
See, you are getting ahead of yourself.
Q: When is a novelty no longer a novelty? A: When it is common place
The Wii is not out yet, therefore it is not commonplace and retains "novelty" status. You can only claim that the wiimote is not a gimmick right now. There are good indicators that the Wii wiill do well, but this is not certain. Press coverage, even good press coverage, and enthusiasm are not sales figures. Otherwise SoaP would be the movie event of the decade.
I applaud Nintendo for expanding the standard interface choices, but I'll only eat my reservations when I see a Tickle Me Elmo sales rush in November.
So it's different now? It really is too early to tell if this will be like the nintendo robot or the more successful light gun. Or the powerglove. It might gain acceptance like the DS, but it's very early in the game to be creaming over the success.
And you best hope that the wiimote is not the defining feature of the console. Motion sensing is cool, but I don't want every damn game to require me to wave the wand at it to play. No more than I want to use a light gun to shoot goombas in super mario brothers.
Why the Wii, and not PS3 or Xbox? Well, where is the innovation in Xbox and PS3?
As far as I know m'boy, 3d mice have been around for awhile. It's new to the console gaming scene, but not innovative. We are not talking sprites to polygon transformation.
In other news, the DS is not the first piece of hardware to have a touch screen or wi-fi either. It just applied them better for gaming. All three consoles just evolved, they are not the product of intelligent design.
Wow, that's actually a pretty nice lineup. I have always subscribed to the "hipster" theory of Apple: Overpriced and more trendy than practical. However, this is a very reasonable price/performance ratio.
Hell, if they can increase their gaming marketshare I might contemplate treason to my Microsoft overlords.
Does this news really change anything? Initial production woes are a normal event and not a PR blunder of the sort Sony is known for now. If they can get out even 500,000 consoles worldwide then they've at least stepped into the race at last.
The war, such as it is, will not be won or lost for several years. And unless Sony pulls a Dreamcast or 3DO, then they will at the least occupy the space the XBox occupies now. They cannot occupy the Gamecube-like slot since the price is not right for that scenario.
Personally, I think they'll be first, second, or gone.
The Walkman, the PS1, and eventually the PS2. They do an excellent job on LCD TVs and are highly rated by Consumer Reports for it.
But like some other poster pointed out, the PS2 was advertised as God's own gift to the realm of gaming. When reality hit, they had to endure a storm of bad publicity. Yet they won out in the end.
Right now the Wii is a favorite son and the PS3 is a black sheep. But reality is fickle and all we have is endless speculation. The delay in Europe is nothing by itself, but if they fail in their NA & Japanese launch as well...then no amount of Fanboy pride will save them.
All they need to do is launch in their largest markets. 500,000 consoles or 4 million they need to get the product out the door. That alone will probably prevent complete failure. Success, well that's up to the actual console to generate.
Sure, it's called being an accessory to the crime. Alas, I will be a direct participant, just not in the first wave. I'll buy mine when I replace my aging TV.
And I'll probably run folding@home for the hell of it too.
Yeah, but it's hell in the summer time. I had to buy a window air conditioner (I have central AC) for my home office. It used to get up to 95F in there.
I wonder what the power consumption is for the PS3? I hear the xbox draws 160 Watts alone, double the amount of the original xbox.
Are you kidding, this site lives for techie grudge matches! Of course, complaining about the root kit doesn't mean that same person won't have a PS3 by spring in their home....
Don't I know that their share price has gone down: I went from a 100% return to a 30% loss in a year. Still, I think they are stronger than ever though I doubt they will be bitch slapping Intel anytime soon.
As for the PS2 outselling the 360... need I remind you that the PS1 outsold the PS2 for the first year of the PS2's life
Nope, but why isn't the Xbox outselling the 360 if adoption is an issue? 24,000 is a pretty paltry number from your cited article. You are right about the stiffer competition, but stronger competition doesn't indicate failure; the success hinges on the price being worth the product.
All I'm saying is that it is still too early to predict gloom for the PS3. No, the sales figures of the 360 isn't conclusive, but I'd be a lot more convinced if they were much stronger. Everyone could be waiting for a Wii, but I'm not sure that's it either.
Because the price is irrelevant right now. If the games are equal in quality between the 360 and the PS3 a year from now, then the price will be important. If Blu-Ray tanks and goes the way of Betamax, then price will be important. If the PS3 holds a minority share of game content, then price will be important.
If the games are superior on the PS3 a year from now, then price will be less relevant. If Blu-Ray achieves even modest success on the market, then price will less relevant. If the PS3 holds the PS2 library percentage then the price will be less relevant.
The list of "ifs" go on.
The problem with this debate is that both sides are taking the best case and worst case outcomes to predict thier console's success. The only indicator I see is that the PS2 is still, in June, outselling the XBox360. Why have the masses not flocked to the 360 banner after all these Sony snafus?
The only reason I can see, is that no one has really given up on the commercial success of the PS3. Look, the PS3 detractors may well be right. But the only hard numbers in evidence do not support those conclusions yet. For cripes sake, at least wait until the first month's sales are out in November.
Y'know, I can't refute your logic, but it is still flawed. What people say, and what people do, are two separate things. Plus, you're assuming that initial production problems will continue for the life of the product.
In addition, you cite the PS2 for two major problems the PS3 is facing: Initial production problems and low quality launch titles. The problem with using that logic is that you are making a comparison to one of the most successful consoles on the market. A console that is still outselling the 360.
If the PS3 is facing doom, why isn't there a sharp spike in 360 sales? Everyone who thinks the PS3 is crap but wants power should be flocking to Microsoft's banner. I have no current sales figures at hand, but the last time I looked I didn't see the 360 even beating the last generation console.
But as I said earlier, I cannot refute your post. Everything you say may come to pass and the PS3 will dive like Enron stock. But I think you base your conclusion on insufficient evidence.
Slashdot Mirror
They built a sweet OS X system that uses a CELL chip from IBM.... Obtw, here's our order for 6million Core 2 Duo and Quad CPUs... volume pricing hasn't changed... correct?"
They were small potatoes for IBM, what makes you think they're hot shit with Intel?
That's the way this industry works, one comes out ahead for a while, and then the competitor surges ahead.
Good point. I'd also like to add that the Opteron is the first time AMD has forged ahead in both price and performance in my memory. The fact that the current generation has slipped in performance does not erase AMD's newfound ability to compete as more than an x86 knockoff company.
Opteron didn't kill Intel and Core Duo won't kill AMD. Intel will have to be much better and AMD screw up much worse to go back to the old days.
This is the beginning of the end, finally. In a few years, Microsoft will be irrelevant.
to which I reply
Then you're an idiot.
I swear, it's like listening to Christian zealots waiting for the rapture. "This time, by God, the world will end...nope this time...nope this time. Face it my friend, evil will always triumph because good is FOSS.
I take it you're running older copy of Debian on a PIII? Waiting occurs more when the product is either too expensive or lacks an excitement factor. And waiting really is only a choice for those who are capable of upgrading their machines.
Several of my Mac coworkers are simply falling over themselves waiting for the latest Mac product. Windows products are just simply "there" on most desktops and have mostly ceased to be a wonder. A user buys the computer and it comes with the current windows OS: Transaction over and done.
I'm almost certain that the US will NOT be seeing a price drop. Why? Pricing comparison...
Perhaps, but don't underestimate the force of the "me too!" emotion. Well, at least I can say the "core" PS3 is more worthwhile than the core Xbox360. The only difference now is the wi-fi, hd size, & memory card capability. None of those features are show-stopping differences.
Well shoot y'all. I live in West "By God" Virginia and I'm looking for some nice beach front property. This Global Warmin' you varmits speak of taint nothin'.
I am not a "dedicated gamer" but I am a ex console junkie who moved on to mmos
There is something, I dunno, strange about a MMO player who feels depressed about the lack of innovation and rehashed game concepts in other game types.
Ok, so I admit I'm a Sony whore because of the PS[X] RPG library. So I'm not unbiased about the XBox360.
But I don't understand what Microsoft is doing with all these optional upgrades. I think another poster pointed out that consoles are meant to be standardized hardware platforms. So why is MS attempting to play catch up if features like Blu-Ray and 1080P are useless frivolities?
I mean a developer can create a Blu-Ray HD game without having to worry if the user has an external HD-DVD drive or provide a 1080P resolution option without caring if the console has been upgraded. I mean the next thing you know, MS will have copied a copier and provide motion sensitive controllers.
The true question is if the Earth is a large enough mass to contain the resulting Fanboy pride. Two perfect entities, merging together into something better than perfection? The mind cannot retain its sanity in the fact of such truth, anymore than it can gaze upon the face of God.
Whole religions were started for less my mortal brethren.
I see your point. But that doesn't mean everyone is going to agree in numbers sufficient to put Nintendo on top. But you know what I would consider true innovation?
A mouse and keyboard
Now that would truly be a quantum leap in console interface technology.
The great thing about this is that the controller will very quickly cease to be a novelty
See, you are getting ahead of yourself.
Q: When is a novelty no longer a novelty?
A: When it is common place
The Wii is not out yet, therefore it is not commonplace and retains "novelty" status. You can only claim that the wiimote is not a gimmick right now. There are good indicators that the Wii wiill do well, but this is not certain. Press coverage, even good press coverage, and enthusiasm are not sales figures. Otherwise SoaP would be the movie event of the decade.
I applaud Nintendo for expanding the standard interface choices, but I'll only eat my reservations when I see a Tickle Me Elmo sales rush in November.
10 bits and the size of two human hands.
Bah, I upgraded to my feet and used the appendage between my legs to indicate positive or negative value.
...they were basically just gimmicks
So it's different now? It really is too early to tell if this will be like the nintendo robot or the more successful light gun. Or the powerglove. It might gain acceptance like the DS, but it's very early in the game to be creaming over the success.
And you best hope that the wiimote is not the defining feature of the console. Motion sensing is cool, but I don't want every damn game to require me to wave the wand at it to play. No more than I want to use a light gun to shoot goombas in super mario brothers.
Why the Wii, and not PS3 or Xbox? Well, where is the innovation in Xbox and PS3?
As far as I know m'boy, 3d mice have been around for awhile. It's new to the console gaming scene, but not innovative. We are not talking sprites to polygon transformation.
In other news, the DS is not the first piece of hardware to have a touch screen or wi-fi either. It just applied them better for gaming. All three consoles just evolved, they are not the product of intelligent design.
Wow, that's actually a pretty nice lineup. I have always subscribed to the "hipster" theory of Apple: Overpriced and more trendy than practical. However, this is a very reasonable price/performance ratio.
Hell, if they can increase their gaming marketshare I might contemplate treason to my Microsoft overlords.
I suppose I should have just said, "I don't think the PS3 can take third place like the gamecube."
Is that clearer?
Does this news really change anything? Initial production woes are a normal event and not a PR blunder of the sort Sony is known for now. If they can get out even 500,000 consoles worldwide then they've at least stepped into the race at last.
The war, such as it is, will not be won or lost for several years. And unless Sony pulls a Dreamcast or 3DO, then they will at the least occupy the space the XBox occupies now. They cannot occupy the Gamecube-like slot since the price is not right for that scenario.
Personally, I think they'll be first, second, or gone.
The Walkman, the PS1, and eventually the PS2. They do an excellent job on LCD TVs and are highly rated by Consumer Reports for it.
But like some other poster pointed out, the PS2 was advertised as God's own gift to the realm of gaming. When reality hit, they had to endure a storm of bad publicity. Yet they won out in the end.
Right now the Wii is a favorite son and the PS3 is a black sheep. But reality is fickle and all we have is endless speculation. The delay in Europe is nothing by itself, but if they fail in their NA & Japanese launch as well...then no amount of Fanboy pride will save them.
All they need to do is launch in their largest markets. 500,000 consoles or 4 million they need to get the product out the door. That alone will probably prevent complete failure. Success, well that's up to the actual console to generate.
Sure, it's called being an accessory to the crime. Alas, I will be a direct participant, just not in the first wave. I'll buy mine when I replace my aging TV.
And I'll probably run folding@home for the hell of it too.
Yeah, but it's hell in the summer time. I had to buy a window air conditioner (I have central AC) for my home office. It used to get up to 95F in there.
I wonder what the power consumption is for the PS3? I hear the xbox draws 160 Watts alone, double the amount of the original xbox.
...most of /. forgot about Sony's rootkit
...
Are you kidding, this site lives for techie grudge matches! Of course, complaining about the root kit doesn't mean that same person won't have a PS3 by spring in their home.
I bet you're going to pre-order one, aren't you?
Don't I know that their share price has gone down: I went from a 100% return to a 30% loss in a year. Still, I think they are stronger than ever though I doubt they will be bitch slapping Intel anytime soon.
As for the PS2 outselling the 360... need I remind you that the PS1 outsold the PS2 for the first year of the PS2's life
Nope, but why isn't the Xbox outselling the 360 if adoption is an issue? 24,000 is a pretty paltry number from your cited article. You are right about the stiffer competition, but stronger competition doesn't indicate failure; the success hinges on the price being worth the product.
All I'm saying is that it is still too early to predict gloom for the PS3. No, the sales figures of the 360 isn't conclusive, but I'd be a lot more convinced if they were much stronger. Everyone could be waiting for a Wii, but I'm not sure that's it either.
Because the price is irrelevant right now. If the games are equal in quality between the 360 and the PS3 a year from now, then the price will be important. If Blu-Ray tanks and goes the way of Betamax, then price will be important. If the PS3 holds a minority share of game content, then price will be important.
If the games are superior on the PS3 a year from now, then price will be less relevant. If Blu-Ray achieves even modest success on the market, then price will less relevant. If the PS3 holds the PS2 library percentage then the price will be less relevant.
The list of "ifs" go on.
The problem with this debate is that both sides are taking the best case and worst case outcomes to predict thier console's success. The only indicator I see is that the PS2 is still, in June, outselling the XBox360. Why have the masses not flocked to the 360 banner after all these Sony snafus?
The only reason I can see, is that no one has really given up on the commercial success of the PS3. Look, the PS3 detractors may well be right. But the only hard numbers in evidence do not support those conclusions yet. For cripes sake, at least wait until the first month's sales are out in November.
Y'know, I can't refute your logic, but it is still flawed. What people say, and what people do, are two separate things. Plus, you're assuming that initial production problems will continue for the life of the product.
In addition, you cite the PS2 for two major problems the PS3 is facing: Initial production problems and low quality launch titles. The problem with using that logic is that you are making a comparison to one of the most successful consoles on the market. A console that is still outselling the 360.
If the PS3 is facing doom, why isn't there a sharp spike in 360 sales? Everyone who thinks the PS3 is crap but wants power should be flocking to Microsoft's banner. I have no current sales figures at hand, but the last time I looked I didn't see the 360 even beating the last generation console.
But as I said earlier, I cannot refute your post. Everything you say may come to pass and the PS3 will dive like Enron stock. But I think you base your conclusion on insufficient evidence.