You are correct, the token that de-css returns to the drive (firmware) allows it to read the encrypted data. The first bit block on the disc is irrelevant to this however, as the data stream would still be encrypted even if you could read past that. To make a bit for bit copy of a DVD you need several things.
A DVD drive
A DVD RAM (writeable drive modified to skip writing the first data bit)
A few 18GB blank dual layered DVD discs (note, these will cost you more thant the original movie did.)
A movie to copy
de_css was no where in there was it? No, and you know why because de_css does not assist in COPYING the disc for piracy. Granted, you could decrypt the data stream and watch it, you could save it to a file and write it to a few CDs, but these WOULD NOT work in a DVD player. My point is that while de_css does break the data encryption on a DVD, it does not make copying any easier.
Munky_v2 "Warning: you are logged into reality as root..."
Black Night: All right we'll call it a draw then. AC: (walks off) Black Night: Oh, oh, I see, running away, 'eh?... You yellow bastards! Come back here and take what's coming to you.... I'll bite your legs off!
Munky_v2 "Warning: you are logged into reality as root..."
Last month, the DVD Copyright Control Association sued 72 hackers and Web site authors for posting - or even linking to software (DeCSS) that unlocks the system for preventing illegal copying of video discs.
This is not what CSS does, it scrambles the content from being viewed by anything but a registered player capable of returning authentication tokens back to the hardware. The wording Jon uses here implies that Jon Johansen is a Cracker that wanted to start a piracy business selling ripped DVDs. This is not the case, Mr. Johansens thoughts were somerthing like this: "I like Linux...I like DVDs...too bad I can't watch DVDs on Linux...OH! Wait. I will just reverse engineer the CSS system and make a player for Linux. HEY I DID IT. I had better tell the world." That had not intention of ripping DVDs. Please remember that the courts are going to be listening to what we say, and if we stray off and say that de_css is for ripping DVDs, were going to lose this case.
Munky_v2 "Warning: you are logged into reality as root..."
Emmet should have read the HOWTO HOWTO before writing this. It cannot be submitted to the LDP as it is. He needs to fix it to meet the recently argued about standards for docbook etc.
Munky_v2 "Warning: you are logged into reality as root..."
I agree, who does care about Kevin. He broke the law and he got caught. He was punished and now he most live with the consequences of his "crime". What I am talking about is the fact the as I see it the very kinds of things the original settlers left England for is now becoming a problem here in America. The government and the courts have too much control. If they wanted to, they could kill someone for insulting a gay person and there would be no one to put them in check for it. The peoples voice has no bearing in anything anymore, it's the corporations that are running the country, deciding how politicians will vote. All I am saying in my comment is that it is a bullshit stipulation to his parole.
Munky_v2 "Warning: you are logged into reality as root..."
You are absolutley correct. Kevin did a bad thing, he even admitted it. What we are debating here is not whether Kevin should just say "fsck you" give me my computer back and go hacking away again. What we are talking about is the legality of the governments decision to prohibit him from using a computer. There is a HUGE difference between raping a child, going through a fair trial and then having to live with the consequences of your actions, and Kevin's case. There is no record of the "financial loss" that occurred because of Kevin. There was no fair trial for Kevin and now the judge is trying to pry info from him that is no longer relevant to the court system (it mat very well be relevant to Kevin). What we are discussing is the whether or not it is right to take away someone's computers for 3 years. I know people that don't have access to computers, their dumb, not by choice, but because they do not have access to the information the rest of us do.
Munky_v2 "Warning: you are logged into reality as root..."
This is such crap. I always thought that the whole "you are losing your freedom" stuff was BS, but now with the MPAA and doubleclick pulling this thing, I am going to have to start IP spoofing all the time.
I say we need to activley fight this kind of invasion of privacy. IMHO boycotting will not work - stupid people greatly outnumber geeks, and stupid people, 1. don't care about this (because they are too stupid to understand) and 2. don't want to chage there habbits at all (again, because they are stupid and set in their ways). Any ideas on what we can do???
Munky_v2 "Warning: you are logged into reality as root..."
Of course geeks have successful marriages. There are two reasons for this... 1. We need someone to cook for us while were hacking away at the kernel. 2. We need to have baby geeks to help us rid the world of idiots (or at least keep them dependant on us).
Munky_v2 "Warning: you are logged into reality as root..."
It looks like a cheap way to make a buck. All they are doing is making a fancy table with check marks that tell you the exact same thing the distrib web site would tell you.
Plus there is a "Testing Fees" link - that's pretty lame.
Yes, the shirt is about the same thing. I bought one, everyone should buy one. There neat and they come with a printed copy of the original source code.
Exactly. I got into Linux because I wanted to learn and become invloved in something more technicaly complicated, more (you must be this smart to use this product). It pains me sometimes to see these companys taking this "if we can't make a smarter user, we'll make dumber O/S" approach. Lets keep Linux pure and continue our efforts to educate people on how to use it.
Where was that proven? I do tech support for Windows and guess what...If I can make the hardware work under Linux / Unix / BSD, it's not defective. So I am very intersted in where you got your figures.
Windows NT is not 100% 32 bit, it still uses patches of 16 for backwards compatability. NT is pretty unstable too because of MSs worst idea ever...the registry. Also leave OS/2 out of this, IBM has made so many mistakes, it's just not fair to rub it in. OS/2 was a decent OS for it's time. IBM has previously suffered from a total lack of foresight.
The WAP Forum Website says The Wireless Application Protocol (WAP) is an open, global specification that empowers mobile users with wireless devices to easily access and interact with information and services instantly.
How can the forum declare that this is an open specification, then allow someone to charge a royalty for it's use. It will be interseting to see what happens in the Sprint PCS "Wireless Web" market now.
Ehhh! Wrong. UDMA 66 has a maximum burst transfer rate of 66 MB per second when it is being used with a UATA controller that fully supports the spec. Read the data sheet.
I don't recall slamming Java. All I said was that I don't care for it. You on the other hand did slam me. That's not cool. What makes you think that just because you have an opinion it's right.
KornBizkit is what we (the developers) call it, because we are either listening to Korn or Limp Bizkit when we are writing it. It doesn't actualy have an official name yet. I think that we are going to have a vote among our beta testers as far as what it will be called once (if) it is released.
Sun makes great servers, and Solaris isn't all that bad, but java isn't that great. I quite frankly don't care if they lock java up in the basement and never release it. Let's not forget that we as developers should be working with what we have or making new things, not freaking out because we cannot get Sun to release java. We can develop a much more powerful language for performing the same tasks. My friend and I are working on KornBizkit, it should be able to completley replace things like java and activeX. In the mean time, let's just hope that Mozilla builds in enough java support to keep us going with those annoying little java pages.
Come on folks. Now I know in this thread that most people supported Linus' decision to protect the name, but I want to speak seriously to those who think we are being a bunch of hypocrites. What Linus did by protecting the Linux trademark was a legitimate business move. Now don't get me wrong, I don't mean that Linux is a business at all. What I mean is that Linus and all of us who truly support Linux, heart and soul, have a vested interest in protecting our good name. Linus Torvalds, as the trademark owner, has the right to pay no mind to those who are using the Linux name in a serious and productive manner. However, if he sees it being used in a manner that can potentially damage the reputation of our community, he has every right to tell those people "knock it off I will sue you".
We cannot expect that because we all have good intentions, we are going to be left alone and no one will try to damage the Linux name. We need this kind of balance in the community if we are going to move beyond being simply a "geek hobby" That's my $.02
Maybe, but maybe not... If this system can do large enough amounts of comparative forecasting. e.g.. pulling comparative data from a large database and looking at that against measurements taken from remote centers around the earth, we might be able to get a pretty accurate World Weather Forecasting System. We could even call it WWFS. I mean if we are able to give it input as to what has happened in the past, and it could look at the world as a whole, then this could be possible. Look at the AMD K6 series processor, it is able to preemptively predict commands with an 80% accuracy rate.
Oh, I would agree, there was nothing of meaning in the post. My point was that it can't be redundant if it's the first post, that's all. But now I am going to say something "informative". I really do think that this is a great thing for the Mozilla team. Here's why:
It is always a good thing when we as open source developers can get our hands on cool technology (without having to go to court over it. This may be what we need to move SSL and over all Internet security beyond where it is now. I also have no doubt that the OSS community will improve upon the security model, and may build it into Apache, thus making the most secure web server ever.
Actualy, yes. about 65% of my work requires a web browser. The company I am employed by intigrates much of our tools into HTTP servers. If my browser keeps crashing everytime I try to launch a java applet, then I am not being productive.
I would frame the check and keep it so I could tell my grandchildren about "the evil empire". This is of course after we figure out how to clone penguins and then genetically engineer them to destroy Microsoft. After that, we'll auction off the penguins and use the money to buy Redmond, then we'll put up a huge penguin shaped building and...sorry, I was going off on a tangent there. Seriously though, I would really hope that he donates it to either FSF or Debian.
Slashdot Mirror
de_css was no where in there was it? No, and you know why because de_css does not assist in COPYING the disc for piracy. Granted, you could decrypt the data stream and watch it, you could save it to a file and write it to a few CDs, but these WOULD NOT work in a DVD player. My point is that while de_css does break the data encryption on a DVD, it does not make copying any easier.
Munky_v2
"Warning: you are logged into reality as root..."
Black Night: All right we'll call it a draw then. ... You yellow bastards! Come back here and take what's coming to you.... I'll bite your legs off!
AC: (walks off)
Black Night: Oh, oh, I see, running away, 'eh?
Munky_v2
"Warning: you are logged into reality as root..."
This is not what CSS does, it scrambles the content from being viewed by anything but a registered player capable of returning authentication tokens back to the hardware. The wording Jon uses here implies that Jon Johansen is a Cracker that wanted to start a piracy business selling ripped DVDs. This is not the case, Mr. Johansens thoughts were somerthing like this: "I like Linux...I like DVDs...too bad I can't watch DVDs on Linux...OH! Wait. I will just reverse engineer the CSS system and make a player for Linux. HEY I DID IT. I had better tell the world." That had not intention of ripping DVDs. Please remember that the courts are going to be listening to what we say, and if we stray off and say that de_css is for ripping DVDs, were going to lose this case.
Munky_v2
"Warning: you are logged into reality as root..."
Emmet should have read the HOWTO HOWTO before writing this. It cannot be submitted to the LDP as it is. He needs to fix it to meet the recently argued about standards for docbook etc.
Munky_v2
"Warning: you are logged into reality as root..."
You subject should be "have spoken".
;)
I am a karma whore, so I am posting AC
Munky_v2
"Warning: you are logged into reality as root..."
I agree, who does care about Kevin. He broke the law and he got caught. He was punished and now he most live with the consequences of his "crime". What I am talking about is the fact the as I see it the very kinds of things the original settlers left England for is now becoming a problem here in America. The government and the courts have too much control. If they wanted to, they could kill someone for insulting a gay person and there would be no one to put them in check for it. The peoples voice has no bearing in anything anymore, it's the corporations that are running the country, deciding how politicians will vote. All I am saying in my comment is that it is a bullshit stipulation to his parole.
Munky_v2
"Warning: you are logged into reality as root..."
You are absolutley correct. Kevin did a bad thing, he even admitted it. What we are debating here is not whether Kevin should just say "fsck you" give me my computer back and go hacking away again. What we are talking about is the legality of the governments decision to prohibit him from using a computer. There is a HUGE difference between raping a child, going through a fair trial and then having to live with the consequences of your actions, and Kevin's case. There is no record of the "financial loss" that occurred because of Kevin. There was no fair trial for Kevin and now the judge is trying to pry info from him that is no longer relevant to the court system (it mat very well be relevant to Kevin). What we are discussing is the whether or not it is right to take away someone's computers for 3 years. I know people that don't have access to computers, their dumb, not by choice, but because they do not have access to the information the rest of us do.
Munky_v2
"Warning: you are logged into reality as root..."
This is such crap. I always thought that the whole "you are losing your freedom" stuff was BS, but now with the MPAA and doubleclick pulling this thing, I am going to have to start IP spoofing all the time.
I say we need to activley fight this kind of invasion of privacy. IMHO boycotting will not work - stupid people greatly outnumber geeks, and stupid people, 1. don't care about this (because they are too stupid to understand) and 2. don't want to chage there habbits at all (again, because they are stupid and set in their ways). Any ideas on what we can do???
Munky_v2
"Warning: you are logged into reality as root..."
Of course geeks have successful marriages. There are two reasons for this...
1. We need someone to cook for us while were hacking away at the kernel.
2. We need to have baby geeks to help us rid the world of idiots (or at least keep them dependant on us).
Munky_v2
"Warning: you are logged into reality as root..."
It looks like a cheap way to make a buck. All they are doing is making a fancy table with check marks that tell you the exact same thing the distrib web site would tell you.
Plus there is a "Testing Fees" link - that's pretty lame.
Munky_v2
Yes, the shirt is about the same thing. I bought one, everyone should buy one. There neat and they come with a printed copy of the original source code.
Power to the smart people!!!
Munky_v2
Exactly. I got into Linux because I wanted to learn and become invloved in something more technicaly complicated, more (you must be this smart to use this product). It pains me sometimes to see these companys taking this "if we can't make a smarter user, we'll make dumber O/S" approach. Lets keep Linux pure and continue our efforts to educate people on how to use it.
Munky_v2
Where was that proven? I do tech support for Windows and guess what...If I can make the hardware work under Linux / Unix / BSD, it's not defective. So I am very intersted in where you got your figures.
Munky_v2
Windows NT is not 100% 32 bit, it still uses patches of 16 for backwards compatability. NT is pretty unstable too because of MSs worst idea ever...the registry. Also leave OS/2 out of this, IBM has made so many mistakes, it's just not fair to rub it in. OS/2 was a decent OS for it's time. IBM has previously suffered from a total lack of foresight.
Munky_v2
Kevin WAS a Linux Hacker. He made early contributions to the kernel.
Munky_v2
The WAP Forum Website says The Wireless Application Protocol (WAP) is an open, global specification that empowers mobile users with wireless devices to easily access and interact with information and services instantly.
How can the forum declare that this is an open specification, then allow someone to charge a royalty for it's use. It will be interseting to see what happens in the Sprint PCS "Wireless Web" market now.
Munky_v2
Ehhh! Wrong. UDMA 66 has a maximum burst transfer rate of 66 MB per second when it is being used with a UATA controller that fully supports the spec.
Read the data sheet.
Munky_v2
I don't recall slamming Java. All I said was that I don't care for it. You on the other hand did slam me. That's not cool. What makes you think that just because you have an opinion it's right.
BTW Its Munky_v2
Munky_v2
KornBizkit is what we (the developers) call it, because we are either listening to Korn or Limp Bizkit when we are writing it. It doesn't actualy have an official name yet. I think that we are going to have a vote among our beta testers as far as what it will be called once (if) it is released.
Munky_v2
Sun makes great servers, and Solaris isn't all that bad, but java isn't that great. I quite frankly don't care if they lock java up in the basement and never release it. Let's not forget that we as developers should be working with what we have or making new things, not freaking out because we cannot get Sun to release java. We can develop a much more powerful language for performing the same tasks. My friend and I are working on KornBizkit, it should be able to completley replace things like java and activeX. In the mean time, let's just hope that Mozilla builds in enough java support to keep us going with those annoying little java pages.
Munky_v2
Come on folks. Now I know in this thread that most people supported Linus' decision to protect the name, but I want to speak seriously to those who think we are being a bunch of hypocrites. What Linus did by protecting the Linux trademark was a legitimate business move. Now don't get me wrong, I don't mean that Linux is a business at all. What I mean is that Linus and all of us who truly support Linux, heart and soul, have a vested interest in protecting our good name. Linus Torvalds, as the trademark owner, has the right to pay no mind to those who are using the Linux name in a serious and productive manner. However, if he sees it being used in a manner that can potentially damage the reputation of our community, he has every right to tell those people "knock it off I will sue you".
We cannot expect that because we all have good intentions, we are going to be left alone and no one will try to damage the Linux name. We need this kind of balance in the community if we are going to move beyond being simply a "geek hobby"
That's my $.02
Munky_v2
Maybe, but maybe not... If this system can do large enough amounts of comparative forecasting. e.g.. pulling comparative data from a large database and looking at that against measurements taken from remote centers around the earth, we might be able to get a pretty accurate World Weather Forecasting System. We could even call it WWFS. I mean if we are able to give it input as to what has happened in the past, and it could look at the world as a whole, then this could be possible. Look at the AMD K6 series processor, it is able to preemptively predict commands with an 80% accuracy rate.
Munky_v2
Oh, I would agree, there was nothing of meaning in the post. My point was that it can't be redundant if it's the first post, that's all. But now I am going to say something "informative". I really do think that this is a great thing for the Mozilla team. Here's why:
It is always a good thing when we as open source developers can get our hands on cool technology (without having to go to court over it. This may be what we need to move SSL and over all Internet security beyond where it is now. I also have no doubt that the OSS community will improve upon the security model, and may build it into Apache, thus making the most secure web server ever.
Munky_v2
Actualy, yes. about 65% of my work requires a web browser. The company I am employed by intigrates much of our tools into HTTP servers. If my browser keeps crashing everytime I try to launch a java applet, then I am not being productive.
Munky_v2
I would frame the check and keep it so I could tell my grandchildren about "the evil empire". This is of course after we figure out how to clone penguins and then genetically engineer them to destroy Microsoft. After that, we'll auction off the penguins and use the money to buy Redmond, then we'll put up a huge penguin shaped building and...sorry, I was going off on a tangent there. Seriously though, I would really hope that he donates it to either FSF or Debian.
Munky_v2