>> I'm not sure that the head of a major Linux company would be an apple "fanboy".
Well, long before he was the head of an MP3 or major Linux company, he ran a software and systems consulting business called "Mr. Mac". Troll the wayback machine for mrmac.com.
Also in that time frame (early 90s) he started, and stopped, and started again the mac-mgrs mailing list. I know this because I took over that list from C. Gary in 1995, who took it over from Michael a few months before that. The list is still going fine, and after TidBITs (whose server is two racks over from the mac-mgrs.org list server ironically), is probably one of the longest running Mac-oriented mailing lists on the 'Net.
If you are out there Michael, give me a holler sometime... almost 10 years since we last spoke. =)
I'm speaking as a network operator here. While it is easy to slam AOL for the lowest common denominator that is their customer-base, I have to say that actually dealing with AOL as a peer network operator is a pleasure. They are easy to get in touch with, they respond to abuse issues swiftly, they work with the other people in the operations community very well.
I can not say the same for many others (AT&T) (Shaw.ca) who seem to be completely unable to generate useful abuse reports, or respond to those sent to them.
ISPs have to have some responsibility for the traffic we send and accept, but you also need to be available to peers to work out issues as they arise.
Back when Quark was "The Tim & Fred Show" it was obvious that Tim Gill was the heart and soul of Quark, and Fred was the looney that was the source of Quark's problems. I know Tim retired many years ago, and it seems the company's fortunes took a dive around that time.
I know they have had something of a musical chairs in the executive ranks for a while and Fred kept pulling stunts (like moving the company to Wyoming!)
I'm just thinking if Fred is still around then this guy had enough of Ebrahimi and bailed. I know when I was a large customer of Quark Inc. *I* had enough of Ebrahimi and I bailed.
Such as the AT&T "GO". There was a LOT of amazing stuff that came and went between '93 and '96. If you blinked, you missed it, but almost every one introduced some significant step in the evolution.
And as others have stated, kind of glossed over the Palm/WinCE early days and eventual paths that lead us to now.
Gates: The truth is: the fewer operating systems there are within a company, the better it is from a security point of view.
SPIEGEL: I beg your pardon?
Gates: Simply because one must spend billions of dollars to ensure the security of each individual system. Our company has an unbelievable number of people who are solely responsible for this type of security around the clock.
Oh my. Bill need to check his logic on that one. His answer basically refutes his original statement. He should try switching to another OS, and have something to compare before he makes statements like that! How many MacOS X security people does Microsoft employ? We know they use that platform.
I manage a network that is a mix of Linux, FreeBSD, Windows & Macintosh (both "classic" MacOS & OS X)... I can tell you that 90+% of our security issues are on Windows, and ~10% are on the Linux boxen. I only have a couple of "Windows Admins" but I am seriously considering adding more, because my guys are overworked... mostly unhaxxoring Windows boxes. I told our CEO about it, and she did some math... the revenue we generate from Windows does not even equal the salary we pay our admins!
The answer seems obvious to me, but unfortunately we can't just drop Windows support.
For goodness sake it IS Unix! I was very tempted to buy this box, but at the moment I can't justify it. It doesn't do much the my own custom Linux installations can't do other than the nice eye candy.
Go ahead... try it, you'll like it.
If you can manage to convince your buddy to let go of his mini for a while, do it. Setup a user account for yourself, and test drive that baby day-to-day for a week. Better yet, try a PowerBook.
Trust me, you'll never go back.
--chuck
.................
"It is so easy to miss pretty trivial solutions to problems deemed complicated. The goal of a scientist is to find an interesting problem, and live off it for a while. The goal of an engineer is to evade interesting problems:)" -- Vadim Antonov on NANOG
> Places like [macminiservers.com] are something else entirely.
Who are they? Where are they? How are they financed? What sort of revenues to they have - TODAY?
Will they be around next year? Five years from now?
I have "G4 Cube Colo Deja Vu"... all over again.
This whole Mini colo thing is just like virgin mary sandwiches on ebay... riding the PR wave as far as they can, whithout any regard to long-term business plans. The very same thing happened when Apple announced the Xserve. What ever happened to these guys? Lots of PR and noise after Jobs announced the Xserve. Now they are vapor.
Sure. From what I gather, slashcode runs horribly on OS X Server. They also have issues with the mySQL db requiring a kick in the head after a backup.
Their server is always "up", but they have a real hard time keeping the processes running.
I've suggested to them many times to try something other than slashcode. There are many similar packages that run just fine on OS X. Why be the only site on the planet that is running this code on this OS??
You do backup your serverson occasion, don't you??
While we rarely see a colo push more than 10mbits, backups over the network routinely hit >80Mbits per second. Of course, it is better if your server has two NICs, one for public network access, the other for private backup traffic. The Mini can only have one.
Load is not the issue. The reliability & design of the hard disk drive is. Laptop drives are designed to be power frugal, spinning down when not in use. A lightly loaded server would be spinning up every time a web request comes in. It would be slower than a heavily loaded Xserve. If it was heavily loaded, or packed tight in a 'condo" then the drive could just die after some relatively short time frame.
Speaking as the guy who runs the oldest and largest Macintosh colocation facility on the Internet. (outing myself on/.)
I think, the form-factor is great. However, that said they would make a lousy server. It has a very slow, laptop HDD not at all optimized for use 7/24. They are not equipped with an adequate fan for cooling the unit if packed densely (like the photoshoped up "condo" on the Pure Static website.) If packed that tight, I bet the MBTF of the drive (and other components) drops to under two months or something insanely short like that.
Google "IBM Deskstar drive failure" to find out when non-server spec drives are used in a 7/24/365 environment
The final remaining issue with the mini-as-server idea is the external power brick. Wall-warts are the bane of any server installation. Very tough to work around. Potential fire hazard if not handled properly.
...
All that said, I expect we will see some clients who send us Minis to colo. We will probably treat them like we did iMacs & G4 Cubes - Put them on well ventilated shelves, in open racks. NOT pack them tight in a cabinet.
And with the Mini, just like the companies that popped up claiming to be "the place" to colo your [G4, Cube, Xserve, insert Apple product here] in the end, digital.forest will still have more of them colocated. Why? We have been doing it longer, have a better facility, and better support. We have knowledgeable systems administrators ON SITE 7/24, who understand MacOS, MacOS X, as well as other UNIX flavors and Win32. We are in our 11th year, opening our third facility. We are a known quantity, with a reputation for quality. Not just some guy who registered a domain name on January 12th.
However... all this interest in using them as servers should be a big honkin' clue to Apple! They need to make "Xserve Lite"
1U - 18" X 18" X 1.75"
one or two drives
one 64-bit pci slot (for an FC card)
1 usb port front and one in back
ditto firewire
built-in video
(low-end admins need video... lame I know, but check the lists and forums about how many people freak when their G5 Xserve arrives sans video card)
Ideal would be video front and back, ala the Dell servers
No need for the goofy split case of the Xserve (I have seen two fall apart in a rack)
No need for those gawd-awful "whack a paddle/kill the server" drive sleds. (I want to find the engineer in Cupertino who designed this and beat them senseless - with one of these lame drive sleds! Sure, they look nice, but they are functionally worthless. Except perhaps as a blunt object to beat people with.)
$1000 price point.
"workgroup server" or "lightweight web server"
No need even for OS X Server, just MacOS
An option to buy Server if you need filesharing for more than X users.
If there really is a market for people to shoehorn an low-end DESKTOP machine into a server role... then Apple should address it. Especially something as ill-suited to server work as the Mac Mini.
--chuck goolsbee
vp tech ops
digital.forest
seattle, wa
First: Don't "assume it is OK to (insert stupid action here)" ASSUME? Didn't you READ anything Apple states about being an ADC member, or in the READ ME, etc???
Second: As soon as you catch wind that somebody, anybody is making legal noises concerning you, RUN DON'T WALK TO OBTAIN LEGAL COUNSEL!!!
Finally: Don't frikkin blather on endlessly to some blogger, proving how FSCKING STUPID you really are. What a collection of idiots.
BTW: The first words out of an attorney's mouth would be essentially "STFU."
This isn't, as the story states "a fascinating read which humanizes the whole messy situation" unless stupidity and ignorance are the true measure of "Humanity."
I actually manage a small datacenter. One thing I have learned after 10 years in the Internet Server hosting and colocation game is SERVICE is what sets you apart from competitors. The big.com era hosting superstars (exodus, colo.com, etc) all built their datacenters with the concept of "lights out" and "reboot button monkeys" for (skeleton) staff. Where are they now?
So long as software is wriiten by flawed humans and small business clients need to have smart people on-call to assist them when they delete files, or bork their server again... datacenters will require support staff.
If you ever call our support number and get some guy in Bangalore answering the phone, you will know that I'm dead... 'cause until then, I'm hiring geeks - right here. Thank you.
While I support much of what this candidate says, and seriously consider voting for him (I'm a Republican who is thoroughly disgusted with Bush... in fact I didn't vote for him the first time!) I find it frustrating when a candidate, ANY candidate holds up "ineffective government" as a reason to vote for them.
What most campaigning candidates seem to forget in their quest to tap the frustrated voter is that the US Constitution is designed to create ineffective government. The Constitution is a great document, and if you read it closely you can see that it was designed to LIMIT government power by creating a multi-headed beast. Each head's main goal is to limit the power of the other heads. I think it works well, except in situations (like now) when FUD makes the heads lose their heads and create things like the PATRIOT ACT.
Great interview. maybe the Geek Nation will be the next 70 years.
Bungie's Macintosh masterpiece from the mid 1990's.
The story was deep, multi-threaded, and enjoyable to discover via the game. The DOS-boys were just shooting/killing with Doom, but those of us blessed to drive a Mac were really getting into a fine storyline while were participated in wholesale slaughter. Yeah, we even did it with one-button mice!
Huge, well researched websites exist just to study the *storyline* of the original game.
If you want the two page "Cliffs Notes" version, it is here, though it pales in comparison to the actual multi-threaded reality (or is it fantasy?) =)
I work for a colo/hosting outfit. I also read the "abuse@*" address here. I found out about this system at AOL back in November, and spent a few weeks working my way through the postmaster group at AOL. I finally did get a really clued guy, who did a lot to help out... however, the system is so completely flawed that there isn't much that can be done to fix it.
Easily 98% of their reported "spams" are false positives. I've collected the 10,000 or so rejected mails and They break down like this:
40% are auto-mails from some website notification system
(example: one of our clients is an "aprtment finding service" that you sign up and I assume pay for. It notifies you if an apartment that meets your needs becomes available, via email.) 30% are mailing list traffic 10% are confirmation emails for ecommerce purchases! 10% are *personal correspondence!* 8% are actual spam, but being legitimately forwarded to an AOL address via a domain hosted by us, but whose user has configured it to forward to an AOL address. 2% is who knows what.
To have a system that fundamentally flawed is amazing. I don't use AOL... in fact I've never even seen what it looks like, so I don't know if this is *user* generated or auto-generated, but I do know it just doesn't work.
Slashdot Mirror
Well, long before he was the head of an MP3 or major Linux company, he ran a software and systems consulting business called "Mr. Mac". Troll the wayback machine for mrmac.com.
Also in that time frame (early 90s) he started, and stopped, and started again the mac-mgrs mailing list. I know this because I took over that list from C. Gary in 1995, who took it over from Michael a few months before that. The list is still going fine, and after TidBITs (whose server is two racks over from the mac-mgrs.org list server ironically), is probably one of the longest running Mac-oriented mailing lists on the 'Net.
If you are out there Michael, give me a holler sometime... almost 10 years since we last spoke. =)
--chuck
I'm speaking as a network operator here. While it is easy to slam AOL for the lowest common denominator that is their customer-base, I have to say that actually dealing with AOL as a peer network operator is a pleasure. They are easy to get in touch with, they respond to abuse issues swiftly, they work with the other people in the operations community very well.
I can not say the same for many others (AT&T) (Shaw.ca) who seem to be completely unable to generate useful abuse reports, or respond to those sent to them.
ISPs have to have some responsibility for the traffic we send and accept, but you also need to be available to peers to work out issues as they arise.
Back when Quark was "The Tim & Fred Show" it was obvious that Tim Gill was the heart and soul of Quark, and Fred was the looney that was the source of Quark's problems. I know Tim retired many years ago, and it seems the company's fortunes took a dive around that time.
I know they have had something of a musical chairs in the executive ranks for a while and Fred kept pulling stunts (like moving the company to Wyoming!)
I'm just thinking if Fred is still around then this guy had enough of Ebrahimi and bailed. I know when I was a large customer of Quark Inc. *I* had enough of Ebrahimi and I bailed.
A good rant.
Such as the AT&T "GO". There was a LOT of amazing stuff that came and went between '93 and '96. If you blinked, you missed it, but almost every one introduced some significant step in the evolution.
And as others have stated, kind of glossed over the Palm/WinCE early days and eventual paths that lead us to now.
I'd give it a "C+" and say "needs more work"
Faster to get infected.
Faster to get rooted.
Faster to get used as a warez server.
Nothing new here.
SPIEGEL: I beg your pardon?
Gates: Simply because one must spend billions of dollars to ensure the security of each individual system. Our company has an unbelievable number of people who are solely responsible for this type of security around the clock.
Oh my. Bill need to check his logic on that one. His answer basically refutes his original statement. He should try switching to another OS, and have something to compare before he makes statements like that! How many MacOS X security people does Microsoft employ? We know they use that platform.
I manage a network that is a mix of Linux, FreeBSD, Windows & Macintosh (both "classic" MacOS & OS X)... I can tell you that 90+% of our security issues are on Windows, and ~10% are on the Linux boxen. I only have a couple of "Windows Admins" but I am seriously considering adding more, because my guys are overworked ... mostly unhaxxoring Windows boxes. I told our CEO about it, and she did some math... the revenue we generate from Windows does not even equal the salary we pay our admins!
The answer seems obvious to me, but unfortunately we can't just drop Windows support.
Go ahead... try it, you'll like it.
If you can manage to convince your buddy to let go of his mini for a while, do it. Setup a user account for yourself, and test drive that baby day-to-day for a week. Better yet, try a PowerBook.
Trust me, you'll never go back.
--chuck
"It is so easy to miss pretty trivial solutions to problems deemed complicated. The goal of a scientist is to find an interesting problem, and live off it for a while. The goal of an engineer is to evade interesting problems
Who are they? Where are they? How are they financed? What sort of revenues to they have - TODAY?
Will they be around next year? Five years from now?
I have "G4 Cube Colo Deja Vu"... all over again.
This whole Mini colo thing is just like virgin mary sandwiches on ebay... riding the PR wave as far as they can, whithout any regard to long-term business plans. The very same thing happened when Apple announced the Xserve. What ever happened to these guys? Lots of PR and noise after Jobs announced the Xserve. Now they are vapor.
Sure. From what I gather, slashcode runs horribly on OS X Server. They also have issues with the mySQL db requiring a kick in the head after a backup.
Their server is always "up", but they have a real hard time keeping the processes running.
I've suggested to them many times to try something other than slashcode. There are many similar packages that run just fine on OS X. Why be the only site on the planet that is running this code on this OS??
--chuck
You do backup your serverson occasion, don't you??
While we rarely see a colo push more than 10mbits, backups over the network routinely hit >80Mbits per second. Of course, it is better if your server has two NICs, one for public network access, the other for private backup traffic. The Mini can only have one.
Load is not the issue. The reliability & design of the hard disk drive is. Laptop drives are designed to be power frugal, spinning down when not in use. A lightly loaded server would be spinning up every time a web request comes in. It would be slower than a heavily loaded Xserve. If it was heavily loaded, or packed tight in a 'condo" then the drive could just die after some relatively short time frame.
Send us your Shuffle! I hear they are quite tasty!
--chuck
______________________________
all Ihr Mischen gehören zu uns
I think, the form-factor is great. However, that said they would make a lousy server. It has a very slow, laptop HDD not at all optimized for use 7/24. They are not equipped with an adequate fan for cooling the unit if packed densely (like the photoshoped up "condo" on the Pure Static website.) If packed that tight, I bet the MBTF of the drive (and other components) drops to under two months or something insanely short like that.
Google "IBM Deskstar drive failure" to find out when non-server spec drives are used in a 7/24/365 environment
The final remaining issue with the mini-as-server idea is the external power brick. Wall-warts are the bane of any server installation. Very tough to work around. Potential fire hazard if not handled properly.
All that said, I expect we will see some clients who send us Minis to colo. We will probably treat them like we did iMacs & G4 Cubes - Put them on well ventilated shelves, in open racks. NOT pack them tight in a cabinet.
And with the Mini, just like the companies that popped up claiming to be "the place" to colo your [G4, Cube, Xserve, insert Apple product here] in the end, digital.forest will still have more of them colocated. Why? We have been doing it longer, have a better facility, and better support. We have knowledgeable systems administrators ON SITE 7/24, who understand MacOS, MacOS X, as well as other UNIX flavors and Win32. We are in our 11th year, opening our third facility. We are a known quantity, with a reputation for quality. Not just some guy who registered a domain name on January 12th.
However... all this interest in using them as servers should be a big honkin' clue to Apple!
They need to make "Xserve Lite" 1U - 18" X 18" X 1.75"
one or two drives
one 64-bit pci slot (for an FC card)
1 usb port front and one in back
ditto firewire
built-in video
(low-end admins need video... lame I know, but check the lists and forums about how many people freak when their G5 Xserve arrives sans video card)
Ideal would be video front and back, ala the Dell servers
No need for the goofy split case of the Xserve (I have seen two fall apart in a rack)
No need for those gawd-awful "whack a paddle/kill the server" drive sleds. (I want to find the engineer in Cupertino who designed this and beat them senseless - with one of these lame drive sleds! Sure, they look nice, but they are functionally worthless. Except perhaps as a blunt object to beat people with.)
$1000 price point.
"workgroup server" or "lightweight web server"
No need even for OS X Server, just MacOS
An option to buy Server if you need filesharing for more than X users.
If there really is a market for people to shoehorn an low-end DESKTOP machine into a server role... then Apple should address it. Especially something as ill-suited to server work as the Mac Mini.
--chuck goolsbee
vp tech ops
digital.forest
seattle, wa
First: Don't "assume it is OK to (insert stupid action here)" ASSUME? Didn't you READ anything Apple states about being an ADC member, or in the READ ME, etc???
Second: As soon as you catch wind that somebody, anybody is making legal noises concerning you, RUN DON'T WALK TO OBTAIN LEGAL COUNSEL!!!
Finally: Don't frikkin blather on endlessly to some blogger, proving how FSCKING STUPID you really are. What a collection of idiots.
BTW: The first words out of an attorney's mouth would be essentially "STFU."
Yet another scientific theory proven correct.
This isn't, as the story states "a fascinating read which humanizes the whole messy situation" unless stupidity and ignorance are the true measure of "Humanity."
I actually manage a small datacenter. One thing I have learned after 10 years in the Internet Server hosting and colocation game is SERVICE is what sets you apart from competitors. The big
So long as software is wriiten by flawed humans and small business clients need to have smart people on-call to assist them when they delete files, or bork their server again... datacenters will require support staff.
If you ever call our support number and get some guy in Bangalore answering the phone, you will know that I'm dead... 'cause until then, I'm hiring geeks - right here. Thank you.
Nice to know you are making use of that new toy Nick. =)
FireWire a BUS, not a car?
sorry, couldn't resist.
10. Can't survive without Microsoft's Cash Infusion
9. Have no hope of selling into "the Enterprise"
8. Sell hardware for too much
7. Are really a Software Company
6. Are really a Hardware Company
5. Can never equal the market share of Microsoft
4. can never equal the market share of Dell or (heh) Gateway
3. Their retail strategy will sink them (see reference in #4)
2. They don't give it away like Linux
and the Number one
1. One Button Mouse.
(Did I miss any?)
Thanks, I'll be here all week, try the veal.
While I support much of what this candidate says, and seriously consider voting for him (I'm a Republican who is thoroughly disgusted with Bush... in fact I didn't vote for him the first time!) I find it frustrating when a candidate, ANY candidate holds up "ineffective government" as a reason to vote for them.
What most campaigning candidates seem to forget in their quest to tap the frustrated voter is that the US Constitution is designed to create ineffective government. The Constitution is a great document, and if you read it closely you can see that it was designed to LIMIT government power by creating a multi-headed beast. Each head's main goal is to limit the power of the other heads. I think it works well, except in situations (like now) when FUD makes the heads lose their heads and create things like the PATRIOT ACT.
Great interview. maybe the Geek Nation will be the next 70 years.
FreeBSD or OS X.
A long time ago... never looked back.
--Bug
Bungie's Macintosh masterpiece from the mid 1990's.
The story was deep, multi-threaded, and enjoyable to discover via the game. The DOS-boys were just shooting/killing with Doom, but those of us blessed to drive a Mac were really getting into a fine storyline while were participated in wholesale slaughter. Yeah, we even did it with one-button mice!
Huge, well researched websites exist just to study the *storyline* of the original game.
If you want the two page "Cliffs Notes" version, it is here, though it pales in comparison to the actual multi-threaded reality (or is it fantasy?) =)
I love to see pictures of racked macs!
-- I use MacOS and Unix for work, and Windows for drink coasters and little frisbees.
on Applefritter.com:
Like the (gorgeous) Old Time Radio Case.
Another Old Time Radio case.
The (fugly) Popsicle stick case.
The (just homely) plain wood box.
OK, and the just plain whacky, like a Mac in a Floppy Disk Box!
Check out the other stuff, that site is seriously cool.
I work for a colo/hosting outfit. I also read the "abuse@*" address here. I found out about this system at AOL back in November, and spent a few weeks working my way through the postmaster group at AOL. I finally did get a really clued guy, who did a lot to help out... however, the system is so completely flawed that there isn't much that can be done to fix it.
Easily 98% of their reported "spams" are false positives. I've collected the 10,000 or so rejected mails and They break down like this:
40% are auto-mails from some website notification system
(example: one of our clients is an "aprtment finding service" that you sign up and I assume pay for. It notifies you if an apartment that meets your needs becomes available, via email.)
30% are mailing list traffic
10% are confirmation emails for ecommerce purchases!
10% are *personal correspondence!*
8% are actual spam, but being legitimately forwarded to an AOL address via a domain hosted by us, but whose user has configured it to forward to an AOL address.
2% is who knows what.
To have a system that fundamentally flawed is amazing. I don't use AOL... in fact I've never even seen what it looks like, so I don't know if this is *user* generated or auto-generated, but I do know it just doesn't work.