Ripping the CD is FAIR USE! I do this all the time because I want to shuffle play my collection without expensive hardware.
My PC does this nicely. This is one of the reasons people might actually want to own a computer! They are expensive enough, people expect to be able to get some return on that investment. Redefining a PC into a pay per play media player is not the way to go. Maybe if they gave me the machine, I might use it that way, then again, I might not.
They hide behind piracy because it is an easy argument, not because it is the truth.
They are leveraging the perception of piracy problems in order to build a pay per play model. Nobody wants this, nobody needs it.
I would go for pay per play, if and only if, it is pay once per title, then I own it same as I do now with media. Access to a large catalog is worth this.
We are supposed to pay for technology and education and other things that fill the coffers of these large corporations. In return our lives are supposed to get better and more productive.
I can't see how giving up our current rights will further either of those causes.
I posted this as well a while back. Sort of the same topic. With the computing power of today, there is no reason why we cannot make a CD-RW the same way the Apple ][ disk drives were made.
Even though it would be less of a unit, in terms of what it does on its own, I would easily pay more for it. I am sure I am not alone in this.
Maybe someone can start this using some of the cheaper CD-RW units out there. Either replace the firmware, or just add on their own interface.
Would the existing interfaces be fast enough for this, or would this sort of thing require an addon card like the old PCTools option card for floppies?
You know I like Linux a lot, Mandrake in particular, but I also enjoy and use on a regular basis, Win2K, FreeBSD and SGI IRIX. Does this make me a polybigot?:)
You are right about money. Linux on the server side is hot right now. The people responsible for that have a lot of experience in that area. Maybe graphics are the sort of thing that is a little harder. Maybe those bits of talent are not as well distributed as those for other tasks are. Maybe we are dealing with lame patent/ip issues. (Likely)
It seems to me that X performance and or (more likely) latency issues are getting some attention right now.
We have the movie studios using Linux on desktops, PTC is porting a serious 3D MCAD application to Linux. Go through the latest Siggraph proceedings. People are doing 3D with Linux all over the place.
Companies are investing in different parts of Linux because they see dollars. X is getting some of this.
I am not willing to give up remote display and the ability to use a lot of applications for this sort of improvement though. I make use of this all the time.
Your comments about OpenGL and X on Linux are true enough, but isn't this implemenation, not the core premise? Lets say the drivers were in working order. You then could do what you want without any hassles and remote it for free.
I have used X on other platforms, SGI in particular and it seems that a good X server can do all the things you would need. Maybe we are not there yet with Linux, but changing direction now still seems foolish to me.
Input devices beyond your basic keyboard and mouse are a pain in any UNIX environment. This experience seems to be true even in high end UNIX environments. We need more work there for sure.
If enough people share your view, then we might really see some change. If that happens, then I will roll with the punches and see what the new environment can do for me. Maybe it will be better!
Till then, I would rather see what we have right now work as well as it can.
You know, I don't. Own a PS2, Run Linux for everything I can, and avoid their hardware. I will continue to do so.
Somebody asked why "you guys hated xbox so much".
You might not like the answer, but it is the truth and addressed the question dead on. It is pretty hard to be full of shit when the starting question was essentially "why?".
You, on the other hand, big bad AC? If you actually want to participate in honest discussion, which my post was, then why not get an account, setup a journal and lets go from there. Feel free to e-mail as well.
My brother in law bought a game cube, then sold it for an X box. So I get some play time without having to buy one.
The hardware is great. A little big, but well done. Personally, I think the controllers are a little goofy, but that is mostly because I am used to Sony style controllers. Once you get used to the differences, they work just fine.
We have played a couple of games. The Buffy game is great, but has playability problems. (Save points are poorly placed) Halo is good fun in multiplayer. And we have a basketball game that is also good.
So if you like the games, Xbox will give you a good experience.
Why do I hate it?
I don't enjoy all the games they promote.
I don't want Microsoft in charge of my gaming experience. Already I have to deal with them for too much. They want my computer, ISP, Game system and operating system. That in itself is not bad because a lot of people want one stop shopping. For them, Microsoft is doing the right thing and doing it well.
I don't like how they make operating systems and perform internet services either. A PC is not always the best piece of hardware either.
If Microsoft is true to form, they will try and own the gaming market. If they do this with products that stand on their own merits, then great! Problem is they won't do this.
Microsoft does not capture a market with products that are simply better than all the others, they do it with questionable business practices.
Microsoft succeeds by destroying the notion of choice. In this industry you only get 90 percent market share when your products are simply brilliant, or when there are no other choices.
Gaining marketshare with brilliant products is hard work --even harder to sustain.
To succeed by eliminating choice really only takes cash and the ability to sleep at night no matter what you have done.
Guess which path Microsoft takes?
I have always hated that and always will.
So, Xbox is guilty by association. Too bad really, I like the machine...
You confuse X with things that depend on it like display managers, input device drivers and such.
If you want a desktop GUI that has openGL underneath, that can be done in X.
The old machines I spoke of where SGI machines. They did have accellerated graphics, could display video in a window, use multiple screens, drive a 3D display and do all the other things you mention now.
None of this is a problem with X. In fact, take a look at some of the visualization research going on right now. A lot of people use Linux and X to drive all kinds of things.
You said it all in your last paragraph. We don't need to throw X out, just fill in the gaps a little.
Someday, X will be replaced, but it won't be for a long time.
The basic concept of X is sound, mature and very farsighted. We have some implementation work to do, but we also need to remember to keep that seperate from the actual value that X provides.
Most people here like UNIX right? You can package all of those X complaints up and apply them to UNIX in general. When you do, Guess what? They are the same arguments. All of the things that make UNIX like systems, such as Linux, a good thing are the same things that drive some people nuts about X.
The reality is that using a *real* computing platform requires a little learning. In the last 4 years, the rate of improvement is astounding really. One or two more years and it is going to be solid.
X is a part of that work and brings with it some serious benefit. Again, I ask: "Why trash all of that, just so we can start all over again with a simpler and more limited system?"
It is not worth it.
There is a trade off between easy to use, and capable. You can also factor in common knowledge to understand how this applies to X today. Lets call this the "happy point".
Right now, there are a lot of people who got started not knowing what network transparent display systems actually mean. This is because the platforms they worked on did not have them.
So common knowledge is low for people coming to Linux right now. So the "happy point" is way toward the ease of use side of things. Makes sense really, because you don't miss what you don't yet understand.
Over the next couple of years a few things are going to happen that will essentially make this point moot.
X configurators will get done for most people. Most of the hard stuff will be abstracted into a few sensible combinations that people need and they will work. Progress so far shows me this will happen.
Some of the brighter ones will start understanding just what X is giving them and will start liking it. Articles, reviews and product feature checklists will start to mention this point.
Remember X is a serious differentator for UNIX like systems. It allows us to do things that make a lot of sense and provide a lot of value.
X server performance will cease to be an issue. There is simply nothing that prevents X from being as fast or faster than the very best frame buffer systems. Nothing. I have old SGI machines with simply *excellent* X servers. They understood X and made it work to its best advantage. The result: 30 Mhz machines that are just as snappy as the machines of today.
Don't tell me X is inherently slow. For each argument, I can point to the source of the problem and that source will be implementation, not the basic premise of X.
So all of this will help to raise common knowledge. As this goes up, that "happy point" will move over toward the capability side of things.
After a couple of iterations, we will wonder why it was such a hassle. I did when learning and it was harder then. Now it is fairly easy. In a couple of years, the things people want most will be in the GUI, for the rest of us, we can continue to meld X into performing whatever display task we want.
Only well planned scalable software with vision does this sort of thing. UNIX does it, thats why we like it, X does it, and that is why we will like it too.
I am *really* tired of hearing X sucks tirades. Is this bash X weekend or what?
Guess I will have to just post X is good tirades each time. Perhaps the truth lies between:)
I agree totally with the tech support. Your little example rocks. Any win32 guru that sees this knows what it means. They will be walking around while we are getting work done.
Win32 is *not* multi user. It is multi-tasking, but they broke it for good when they moved the display into ring 0 starting with NT4.0.
Interestingly enough, I work with a few win32 admins that have some UNIX apps to work with. Showed them how they can build and application server with UNIX, then remote display to PC workstations and share data with SAMBA. Bang! One big complex application and its data all in one nice fast place. --They liked it.
I agree, we should be shouting about X because there really is nothing else like it, and almost nobody knows that. ( Compared to the percentage who understand the currently broken win32 and OS X display scheme! )
Never work for free for corporations. Why do anything else? They consume our lives and produce wealth for others.
I have done this on occasion. I simply ask for pay arrangments, PO # and contact name.
When I show up, I have a copy of the invoice for services to be rendered with the terms printed clearly on there. Someone gets to sign that and keep a copy.
Do the work, be nice about the hours, and bill them.
Done this way, I reserve the right to actually persue collections, which I have never had to do.
Remember their actual cost of employment for you is, on average, 135% of your last wage. You can ask for this much with impunity because they have demonstrated they can pay that amount.
Personally I double it, and be considerate about the billing hours and such. Underpromise and overdeliver so they see you providing a good value.
A couple times, I was turned down. They said it was too much. Too bad. Wonder how much they paid exactly? More than I would have charged them. BTW, when this happened, I let them know that I was avaliable anytime if they run into trouble getting the work done and that my time is valuable.
It is very important to set the expectations up front. That way, you maintain a good position in case things go south, or the project ends up bigger than they realize. (Which if you were doing your job, is highly likely!)
Guess it comes down to what you do with your desktop computer.
My main use for a home desktop computer is Internet communication. (Writing, programming, web development, remote support, e-mail, IM and other such things.) Linux can do this very well right now.
There are a million apps for win32, but I just don't need them all. So this does limit what I can do right now at home, but to me this is not important because I enjoy using Open Source and value the freedoms it provides.
Funny thing is I do have a win2K machine in the house. Win2K is a fine family desktop OS. It gets used a lot, but I find that I do not need to use it much at all lately. So win32 is there for the occasional task, but Linux really is the primary OS because it can now meet my needs. Over time I expect this to continue as the application scene improves. The foundation OS and tools are fine now --just need to continue to bring applications to the platform.
I can tell you that win2K will be the last Microsoft OS that I will pay for. It has been a fine OS and I am happy with it. There will come a point where maybe the latest greatest thing will not run under win2k. At that point, either a Linux solution will be avaliable, wine will do the job, or I simply will not be using it. Period.
Considering the general direction the win32 platform is headed, I am just not interested. Nobody should have the right to own my ability to perform basic computing tasks and force me to continue paying for that right.
This really is where Microsoft, in general, is a losing proposition for me.
Learning to make use of OSS software is a steady process. It takes a while, but is worth it. About 5 years ago, someone told me that if I could learn to compile software, I would be set for life. They were right.
It is damn nice to know that I can take almost any hardware out there and make good use of it with nothing more than a net connection and time.
I will never have this with Microsoft tools.
So really, I look hard at what I can do today and do it. --It only gets better. For those things I cannot do, I seriously consider if I actually need to do them and go forward from there. Said another way, I chose to start looking at what I can do, rather than all of the things I cannot yet do. This perspective matters.
One side benefit is that there is more time for family and other interests. Given my affinity for computing, this is a good thing!
At work, I try hard to get Linux involved, but have a tough time. It is not managment because they are open to new solutions because they are a big part of what we do. However the nature of our business demands win32 solutions at this time. We are a small firm that works with product development groups to improve their process. Many of them are win32, others are commercial UNIX. Cost is important, but apps are king. These groups use specialized tools that are just not avaliable on Linux. (Yet) Since our value to these groups is in our expertise, we have a win32 focus. Sucks, but that is the way it is. I believe this will change, just as it is changing right now for the sciences, movie studios, and infrastructure areas of our industry. Our niche is fickle and somewhat conservative.
I find your statement funny about web and office apps. If you mean making use of web apps, Linux can do the task for the most part. Business office type applications really are quite good now. There is not very far to go. Exchange / outlook functionality and illustration applications need some work, but the basics, e-mail, word processing and spreadsheets really are pretty solid. Again, it is about what you can do today -vs- all the things you know you cannot yet do.
We do like Linux, we also like FreeBSD. Where it makes sense internally, we make good use of it. Some of our customers do as well. Apps really are the killer for what we do. (Bummer)
Hey, at least you are looking. Keep looking, you will continue to see more of what you need. Remember, to consider what you can do today. Doing those things will keep you in the loop as others come on board.
Getting to your current comfort level will take time and development on the Linux side of things. It *is* happening, and enough of it has happened for me to begin growing with Linux and treading water with win32. If you keep one eye open, you are likely to find the same at some point in the near future.
I hear a lot about X being bad, X being hard, X is this and X is that. All of it is bullshit plain and simple.
The X window environment is likely the best feature of any UNIX and Linux is starting to do it really well.
X is what gives Linux its true multi-user environment. Sure you can run command line stuff without an X server, but why bother?
You don't have to be a CLI geek to make good use of X. Just know ssh, xhost, rlogin and how to set your DISPLAY variable for UNIXes that are not crafted to be display friendly and you are set. That is very little to learn really.
X window setup is getting easier every day. When I started with Linux, X was hard. Now it is a whole lot easier. Give it another year and it will be no harder than dealing with win32 display issues.
X is what brought me to UNIX. I was headed down the MSCE path until I landed in a situation where I needed to work with a few UNIX machines. The users there used all of the machines as if they were their own. To someone used to non X display systems, this was amazing, not to mention very productive from both a user and administrative standpoint. Client server is not the only computing model. Think about all the web applications out there. They work remotely and you just display and input. Lots of people seem to think this is great. Guess what, X is that and more and it is here today, working nicely.
Before we had the networks we have now, X would have been a waste on most desktop machines because they were not connected enough to matter. Not to mention that if they were the OS was clearly not up to the task. So today we have a bunch of people who don't know what it is. This does not make it hard, just different.
Today we live in a networked environment. X was designed years ago with this in mind, we are just now getting there. Why continue an old mindset just because it is comfortable?
Take a little time to learn just a little about X, it is worth your time.
At home, I have managed to convert to a Mandrake desktop. Been using Linux in some form or another since 95. (It took a while.)
What got me on Linux at home was web based applications, Evolution, Open Office. I do a lot of remote support and communication. Linux is very good for this. With VNC and SSH I make use of the home box all the time.
The other things for home Linux was DVD movie playback, screw the law, I like OGLE and buy my DVD media fair and square. Mp3 rip mix burn was important --I use ogg now for new stuff. Games. I do not purchase many and the kind I like are starting to show up in Linux. So by the time I want a new one, there are enough choices for Linux. The rest happen on a PS2. (I *like consoles.)
At work, we use BSD for a web server, IRIX for some MCAD application support, and win32 for everything else.
What will help at work?
Office connectivity for an exchange environment that really just works and is inexpensive. We are a small shop and have a Microsoft Partner relationship. This gives us a significant cost advantage.
More web based applications. Using a browser makes a lot of sense. Wonder why more companies are not using the real potential for Mozilla to be an interface. Microsoft does not see this because they are buried in the whole client server thing.
Funny thing, IRIX shines for administering and maintaining the win32 PC environment here. Open up a few VNC sessions, setup a couple of desktops and you can easily work with many machines. Linux, of course would do this as nicely, but I have a reason for IRIX.
One application needed is Sales contact information management sofware like goldmine or maximizer. Either good cilents, wine support, or web interfaces would go a long way toward getting Linux on my desktop.
Management is not opposed as long as I can do what I do well.
Mcad is coming. There is a Linux version of the PTC software. This is a big step! I do wonder about Solidworks and SolidEdge though. They are win32 to the core and have a lot of users. Looks like a lot of engineers will be on win32 for a while.
It amazed me at the time. You could literally do anything you wanted to your Apple at that point because you were given all the tools to understand it.
For me, having that resource made the Apple a much more impressive machine compared to the technically superior but vastly more closed Atari machines.
I agree with this only because most of us do not relate to the computer in the way made popular by these old publications, but I think you miss the point.
Websites, CD's and other media can bring new computer experiences and communication to us, but without anyone evangalizing (sp!) the actual art of computing, our industry will grow stale --a large portion of it has!
Most of us don't care how the computer works, but that small percent that does is what makes the difference.
This is why things like Linux *need* to be avaliable for people to understand and create with. This could be *Bsd, Hurd or anything else that is free as in freedom as long as it is open to those who want to look.
This is also why hacking is *not* a bad thing in and of itself. We paid for the stuff, we should be able to do what we want with it. I could as a kid, nothing should have changed.
Without these two things in place, our 'new' creations will simply be those things that are planned and accounted for. In this context, are they really creations, or just natural selection of the controlled set of possibilities?
The difference is more than you think.
When I was in high school, I was connecting my computer to other things and making them go. Nobody told me computers were bad. Nobody told me it could not be done. Nobody told me that I could be breaking the law by simply learning and sharing with others the results!
When I asked the question, and gave the answer, I really meant this:
Those who built their empires today fear for their future. They were the kids typing in the codes, learning new things and in a position to take advantage of it.
Now they use their position not to further the industry, but to secure their position in it AT THE EXPENSE OF THE REST OF US. This is wrong at its most basic level and a lot of people here know it.
Problem is that most everyone else doesn't!
That is what the fu*k happened!
Now it is not all bad, we all have machines, they are cheap and connected. Good, but getting stale. It's time for the next round.
Somewhere in a small town high school, a group of kids might be computing on whatever they can find. It is likely they are using Linux and learning more together then they could ever learn alone.
Good for them and good for us.
Hope they see a coupla issues of Compute! or Byte! and know that they are doing the right thing.
If they can get the same encouragement and freedom we all did, then perhaps we just might get the benefit, just as our elders did.
I still have "Mapping the Atari". Same story. If you wanted to know something about how that machine worked, all but a few details were in there.
Your DMCA thought really punches the point home. It is already a reality that a book with the title "Understanding DVD-ROM" cannot be published with anything near the level of detail enjoyed by Compute! readers 15 or so years ago.
When I was young, I read every one of these publications. Learned more than I could use at the time.
Today, it is not so important to know that poke 710,0 would turn the screen background black on an Atari. Their time has passed for the most part and we could all focus our energy elsewhere today.
It is important to remember the spirit of the times though. Hacking around the guts of your machine was encouraged and reported on! New techiques covered every aspect of these machines as people used them in almost every way, but the way they were designed for!
What the Fu*k happened? People who only smell money and have no regard for others is what happened! We should be ashamed for letting them.
One interesting thing was the included source code and programming techniques. Compute used to publish games and utilities written for all the major machines at the time! Never thought about it much as a kid, just thought it was cool.
Fast forward today and what is that exactly? Open source! Not only that, but in popular publications where EVERYONE COULD SEE!
A lot could be done with this code and it made each issue worth its purchase price.
Open source preserves this spirit with todays hardware. Instead of text editors, assemblers, sprite editors we get Office Suites, C Compiliers, and OpenGL modelers.
Seriously, the technology to meet everyones basic computing needs is already done! Nobody should have to keep paying and paying for it.
Thanks for a nice reminder of exactly why I choose to use Open Tools! Somehow we need to get more people in the know. Once they do, they will never go back. Just as none of us who actually read these things did!
I *will* play any media I purchase on any device I own anytime I like and in any fashion I like; or I won't buy it.
It really is just that simple because I don't have the time for anything else.
What I love to hear is the how and why this will make you more money. You raise the cost of distribution, piss off your loyal customers, limit title avaliability, yet plan to make more money?
Slashdot Mirror
Of course they will not figure out things on the computer --they will ask their boyfriend, brother or father to do it for them!
I agree with the rest of your post, but as the parent of two teenagers, I could not resist!
Ripping the CD is FAIR USE! I do this all the time because I want to shuffle play my collection without expensive hardware.
My PC does this nicely. This is one of the reasons people might actually want to own a computer! They are expensive enough, people expect to be able to get some return on that investment. Redefining a PC into a pay per play media player is not the way to go. Maybe if they gave me the machine, I might use it that way, then again, I might not.
They hide behind piracy because it is an easy argument, not because it is the truth.
They are leveraging the perception of piracy problems in order to build a pay per play model. Nobody wants this, nobody needs it.
I would go for pay per play, if and only if, it is pay once per title, then I own it same as I do now with media. Access to a large catalog is worth this.
We are supposed to pay for technology and education and other things that fill the coffers of these large corporations. In return our lives are supposed to get better and more productive.
I can't see how giving up our current rights will further either of those causes.
That's what is wrong with it.
I posted this as well a while back. Sort of the same topic. With the computing power of today, there is no reason why we cannot make a CD-RW the same way the Apple ][ disk drives were made.
Even though it would be less of a unit, in terms of what it does on its own, I would easily pay more for it. I am sure I am not alone in this.
Maybe someone can start this using some of the cheaper CD-RW units out there. Either replace the firmware, or just add on their own interface.
Would the existing interfaces be fast enough for this, or would this sort of thing require an addon card like the old PCTools option card for floppies?
There is money to be made here.
I use pine all the time. My ISP has SSH access so I can quick (and I mean quick) check my mail on the server when at work or at customer sites.
Interface is dead simple and fast.
Editing mail is easy not too many features --just the ones you need for a quick message.
One of the best little tools around.
You know I like Linux a lot, Mandrake in particular, but I also enjoy and use on a regular basis, Win2K, FreeBSD and SGI IRIX. Does this make me a polybigot? :)
You are right about money. Linux on the server side is hot right now. The people responsible for that have a lot of experience in that area. Maybe graphics are the sort of thing that is a little harder. Maybe those bits of talent are not as well distributed as those for other tasks are. Maybe we are dealing with lame patent/ip issues. (Likely)
It seems to me that X performance and or (more likely) latency issues are getting some attention right now.
We have the movie studios using Linux on desktops, PTC is porting a serious 3D MCAD application to Linux. Go through the latest Siggraph proceedings. People are doing 3D with Linux all over the place.
Companies are investing in different parts of Linux because they see dollars. X is getting some of this.
Change will happen as I said in my original post.
Fair enough.
I am not willing to give up remote display and the ability to use a lot of applications for this sort of improvement though. I make use of this all the time.
Your comments about OpenGL and X on Linux are true enough, but isn't this implemenation, not the core premise? Lets say the drivers were in working order. You then could do what you want without any hassles and remote it for free.
I have used X on other platforms, SGI in particular and it seems that a good X server can do all the things you would need. Maybe we are not there yet with Linux, but changing direction now still seems foolish to me.
Input devices beyond your basic keyboard and mouse are a pain in any UNIX environment. This experience seems to be true even in high end UNIX environments. We need more work there for sure.
If enough people share your view, then we might really see some change. If that happens, then I will roll with the punches and see what the new environment can do for me. Maybe it will be better!
Till then, I would rather see what we have right now work as well as it can.
Best,
Doug
You know, I don't. Own a PS2, Run Linux for everything I can, and avoid their hardware. I will continue to do so.
Somebody asked why "you guys hated xbox so much".
You might not like the answer, but it is the truth and addressed the question dead on. It is pretty hard to be full of shit when the starting question was essentially "why?".
You, on the other hand, big bad AC? If you actually want to participate in honest discussion, which my post was, then why not get an account, setup a journal and lets go from there. Feel free to e-mail as well.
My brother in law bought a game cube, then sold it for an X box. So I get some play time without having to buy one.
The hardware is great. A little big, but well done. Personally, I think the controllers are a little goofy, but that is mostly because I am used to Sony style controllers. Once you get used to the differences, they work just fine.
We have played a couple of games. The Buffy game is great, but has playability problems. (Save points are poorly placed) Halo is good fun in multiplayer. And we have a basketball game that is also good.
So if you like the games, Xbox will give you a good experience.
Why do I hate it?
I don't enjoy all the games they promote.
I don't want Microsoft in charge of my gaming experience. Already I have to deal with them for too much. They want my computer, ISP, Game system and operating system. That in itself is not bad because a lot of people want one stop shopping. For them, Microsoft is doing the right thing and doing it well.
I don't like how they make operating systems and perform internet services either. A PC is not always the best piece of hardware either.
If Microsoft is true to form, they will try and own the gaming market. If they do this with products that stand on their own merits, then great! Problem is they won't do this.
Microsoft does not capture a market with products that are simply better than all the others, they do it with questionable business practices.
Microsoft succeeds by destroying the notion of choice. In this industry you only get 90 percent market share when your products are simply brilliant, or when there are no other choices.
Gaining marketshare with brilliant products is hard work --even harder to sustain.
To succeed by eliminating choice really only takes cash and the ability to sleep at night no matter what you have done.
Guess which path Microsoft takes?
I have always hated that and always will.
So, Xbox is guilty by association. Too bad really, I like the machine...
You confuse X with things that depend on it like display managers, input device drivers and such.
If you want a desktop GUI that has openGL underneath, that can be done in X.
The old machines I spoke of where SGI machines. They did have accellerated graphics, could display video in a window, use multiple screens, drive a 3D display and do all the other things you mention now.
None of this is a problem with X. In fact, take a look at some of the visualization research going on right now. A lot of people use Linux and X to drive all kinds of things.
You said it all in your last paragraph. We don't need to throw X out, just fill in the gaps a little.
Someday, X will be replaced, but it won't be for a long time.
You know hard things are hard. Setting up a single display is easy. Networked ones are harder. Multiple displays networked are still harder.
Ease of use always detracts some from capable. If we do a *lot* of work, we all become happy about how capable the system is.
I am not saying we cannot have both.
But a large part of that work is education about the nature of X itself. This directly impacts how easy to use it is.
Just because someone puts a nice interface on something hard, does not mean it is easy to use when the task is not understood.
That is the problem many folks have with X. It is the same problem I had.
X is not perfect, but it is damn good. Everything can be improved on --that's what computing is about right now.
We need to make full use of what we have now though.
The basic concept of X is sound, mature and very farsighted. We have some implementation work to do, but we also need to remember to keep that seperate from the actual value that X provides.
:)
Most people here like UNIX right? You can package all of those X complaints up and apply them to UNIX in general. When you do, Guess what? They are the same arguments. All of the things that make UNIX like systems, such as Linux, a good thing are the same things that drive some people nuts about X.
The reality is that using a *real* computing platform requires a little learning. In the last 4 years, the rate of improvement is astounding really. One or two more years and it is going to be solid.
X is a part of that work and brings with it some serious benefit. Again, I ask: "Why trash all of that, just so we can start all over again with a simpler and more limited system?"
It is not worth it.
There is a trade off between easy to use, and capable. You can also factor in common knowledge to understand how this applies to X today. Lets call this the "happy point".
Right now, there are a lot of people who got started not knowing what network transparent display systems actually mean. This is because the platforms they worked on did not have them.
So common knowledge is low for people coming to Linux right now. So the "happy point" is way toward the ease of use side of things. Makes sense really, because you don't miss what you don't yet understand.
Over the next couple of years a few things are going to happen that will essentially make this point moot.
X configurators will get done for most people. Most of the hard stuff will be abstracted into a few sensible combinations that people need and they will work. Progress so far shows me this will happen.
Some of the brighter ones will start understanding just what X is giving them and will start liking it. Articles, reviews and product feature checklists will start to mention this point.
Remember X is a serious differentator for UNIX like systems. It allows us to do things that make a lot of sense and provide a lot of value.
X server performance will cease to be an issue. There is simply nothing that prevents X from being as fast or faster than the very best frame buffer systems. Nothing. I have old SGI machines with simply *excellent* X servers. They understood X and made it work to its best advantage. The result: 30 Mhz machines that are just as snappy as the machines of today.
Don't tell me X is inherently slow. For each argument, I can point to the source of the problem and that source will be implementation, not the basic premise of X.
So all of this will help to raise common knowledge. As this goes up, that "happy point" will move over toward the capability side of things.
After a couple of iterations, we will wonder why it was such a hassle. I did when learning and it was harder then. Now it is fairly easy. In a couple of years, the things people want most will be in the GUI, for the rest of us, we can continue to meld X into performing whatever display task we want.
Only well planned scalable software with vision does this sort of thing. UNIX does it, thats why we like it, X does it, and that is why we will like it too.
I am *really* tired of hearing X sucks tirades. Is this bash X weekend or what?
Guess I will have to just post X is good tirades each time. Perhaps the truth lies between
You are right about that. My percentage is just wage plus bennies. That is why I double that.
Given that I would already have the skills and am not running a business, that value is more than fair.
You see, I don't mind helping someone out, but my time is worth something.
My current employer charges about $175 per hour for onsite consulting services. Your 200k figure is not far off of the mark.
If I were selling the services, I would ask for an amount in this range. Helping someone out is a little different. Good karma and all of that.
So, I agree, but feel that my advice was well suited to the question posed.
I agree totally with the tech support. Your little example rocks. Any win32 guru that sees this knows what it means. They will be walking around while we are getting work done.
Win32 is *not* multi user. It is multi-tasking, but they broke it for good when they moved the display into ring 0 starting with NT4.0.
Interestingly enough, I work with a few win32 admins that have some UNIX apps to work with. Showed them how they can build and application server with UNIX, then remote display to PC workstations and share data with SAMBA. Bang! One big complex application and its data all in one nice fast place. --They liked it.
I agree, we should be shouting about X because there really is nothing else like it, and almost nobody knows that. ( Compared to the percentage who understand the currently broken win32 and OS X display scheme! )
It's simple!
Never work for free for corporations. Why do anything else? They consume our lives and produce wealth for others.
I have done this on occasion. I simply ask for pay arrangments, PO # and contact name.
When I show up, I have a copy of the invoice for services to be rendered with the terms printed clearly on there. Someone gets to sign that and keep a copy.
Do the work, be nice about the hours, and bill them.
Done this way, I reserve the right to actually persue collections, which I have never had to do.
Remember their actual cost of employment for you is, on average, 135% of your last wage. You can ask for this much with impunity because they have demonstrated they can pay that amount.
Personally I double it, and be considerate about the billing hours and such. Underpromise and overdeliver so they see you providing a good value.
A couple times, I was turned down. They said it was too much. Too bad. Wonder how much they paid exactly? More than I would have charged them. BTW, when this happened, I let them know that I was avaliable anytime if they run into trouble getting the work done and that my time is valuable.
It is very important to set the expectations up front. That way, you maintain a good position in case things go south, or the project ends up bigger than they realize. (Which if you were doing your job, is highly likely!)
Guess it comes down to what you do with your desktop computer.
My main use for a home desktop computer is Internet communication. (Writing, programming, web development, remote support, e-mail, IM and other such things.) Linux can do this very well right now.
There are a million apps for win32, but I just don't need them all. So this does limit what I can do right now at home, but to me this is not important because I enjoy using Open Source and value the freedoms it provides.
Funny thing is I do have a win2K machine in the house. Win2K is a fine family desktop OS. It gets used a lot, but I find that I do not need to use it much at all lately. So win32 is there for the occasional task, but Linux really is the primary OS because it can now meet my needs. Over time I expect this to continue as the application scene improves. The foundation OS and tools are fine now --just need to continue to bring applications to the platform.
I can tell you that win2K will be the last Microsoft OS that I will pay for. It has been a fine OS and I am happy with it. There will come a point where maybe the latest greatest thing will not run under win2k. At that point, either a Linux solution will be avaliable, wine will do the job, or I simply will not be using it. Period.
Considering the general direction the win32 platform is headed, I am just not interested. Nobody should have the right to own my ability to perform basic computing tasks and force me to continue paying for that right.
This really is where Microsoft, in general, is a losing proposition for me.
Learning to make use of OSS software is a steady process. It takes a while, but is worth it. About 5 years ago, someone told me that if I could learn to compile software, I would be set for life. They were right.
It is damn nice to know that I can take almost any hardware out there and make good use of it with nothing more than a net connection and time.
I will never have this with Microsoft tools.
So really, I look hard at what I can do today and do it. --It only gets better. For those things I cannot do, I seriously consider if I actually need to do them and go forward from there. Said another way, I chose to start looking at what I can do, rather than all of the things I cannot yet do. This perspective matters.
One side benefit is that there is more time for family and other interests. Given my affinity for computing, this is a good thing!
At work, I try hard to get Linux involved, but have a tough time. It is not managment because they are open to new solutions because they are a big part of what we do. However the nature of our business demands win32 solutions at this time. We are a small firm that works with product development groups to improve their process. Many of them are win32, others are commercial UNIX. Cost is important, but apps are king. These groups use specialized tools that are just not avaliable on Linux. (Yet) Since our value to these groups is in our expertise, we have a win32 focus. Sucks, but that is the way it is. I believe this will change, just as it is changing right now for the sciences, movie studios, and infrastructure areas of our industry. Our niche is fickle and somewhat conservative.
I find your statement funny about web and office apps. If you mean making use of web apps, Linux can do the task for the most part. Business office type applications really are quite good now. There is not very far to go. Exchange / outlook functionality and illustration applications need some work, but the basics, e-mail, word processing and spreadsheets really are pretty solid. Again, it is about what you can do today -vs- all the things you know you cannot yet do.
We do like Linux, we also like FreeBSD. Where it makes sense internally, we make good use of it. Some of our customers do as well. Apps really are the killer for what we do. (Bummer)
Hey, at least you are looking. Keep looking, you will continue to see more of what you need. Remember, to consider what you can do today. Doing those things will keep you in the loop as others come on board.
Getting to your current comfort level will take time and development on the Linux side of things. It *is* happening, and enough of it has happened for me to begin growing with Linux and treading water with win32. If you keep one eye open, you are likely to find the same at some point in the near future.
This is good for all of us.
I hear a lot about X being bad, X being hard, X is this and X is that. All of it is bullshit plain and simple.
The X window environment is likely the best feature of any UNIX and Linux is starting to do it really well.
X is what gives Linux its true multi-user environment. Sure you can run command line stuff without an X server, but why bother?
You don't have to be a CLI geek to make good use of X. Just know ssh, xhost, rlogin and how to set your DISPLAY variable for UNIXes that are not crafted to be display friendly and you are set. That is very little to learn really.
X window setup is getting easier every day. When I started with Linux, X was hard. Now it is a whole lot easier. Give it another year and it will be no harder than dealing with win32 display issues.
X is what brought me to UNIX. I was headed down the MSCE path until I landed in a situation where I needed to work with a few UNIX machines. The users there used all of the machines as if they were their own. To someone used to non X display systems, this was amazing, not to mention very productive from both a user and administrative standpoint. Client server is not the only computing model. Think about all the web applications out there. They work remotely and you just display and input. Lots of people seem to think this is great. Guess what, X is that and more and it is here today, working nicely.
Before we had the networks we have now, X would have been a waste on most desktop machines because they were not connected enough to matter. Not to mention that if they were the OS was clearly not up to the task. So today we have a bunch of people who don't know what it is. This does not make it hard, just different.
Today we live in a networked environment. X was designed years ago with this in mind, we are just now getting there. Why continue an old mindset just because it is comfortable?
Take a little time to learn just a little about X, it is worth your time.
At home, I have managed to convert to a Mandrake desktop. Been using Linux in some form or another since 95. (It took a while.)
What got me on Linux at home was web based applications, Evolution, Open Office. I do a lot of remote support and communication. Linux is very good for this. With VNC and SSH I make use of the home box all the time.
The other things for home Linux was DVD movie playback, screw the law, I like OGLE and buy my DVD media fair and square. Mp3 rip mix burn was important --I use ogg now for new stuff. Games. I do not purchase many and the kind I like are starting to show up in Linux. So by the time I want a new one, there are enough choices for Linux. The rest happen on a PS2. (I *like consoles.)
At work, we use BSD for a web server, IRIX for some MCAD application support, and win32 for everything else.
What will help at work?
Office connectivity for an exchange environment that really just works and is inexpensive. We are a small shop and have a Microsoft Partner relationship. This gives us a significant cost advantage.
More web based applications. Using a browser makes a lot of sense. Wonder why more companies are not using the real potential for Mozilla to be an interface. Microsoft does not see this because they are buried in the whole client server thing.
Funny thing, IRIX shines for administering and maintaining the win32 PC environment here. Open up a few VNC sessions, setup a couple of desktops and you can easily work with many machines. Linux, of course would do this as nicely, but I have a reason for IRIX.
One application needed is Sales contact information management sofware like goldmine or maximizer. Either good cilents, wine support, or web interfaces would go a long way toward getting Linux on my desktop.
Management is not opposed as long as I can do what I do well.
Mcad is coming. There is a Linux version of the PTC software. This is a big step! I do wonder about Solidworks and SolidEdge though. They are win32 to the core and have a lot of users. Looks like a lot of engineers will be on win32 for a while.
It amazed me at the time. You could literally do anything you wanted to your Apple at that point because you were given all the tools to understand it.
For me, having that resource made the Apple a much more impressive machine compared to the technically superior but vastly more closed Atari machines.
I agree with this only because most of us do not relate to the computer in the way made popular by these old publications, but I think you miss the point.
Websites, CD's and other media can bring new computer experiences and communication to us, but without anyone evangalizing (sp!) the actual art of computing, our industry will grow stale --a large portion of it has!
Most of us don't care how the computer works, but that small percent that does is what makes the difference.
This is why things like Linux *need* to be avaliable for people to understand and create with. This could be *Bsd, Hurd or anything else that is free as in freedom as long as it is open to those who want to look.
This is also why hacking is *not* a bad thing in and of itself. We paid for the stuff, we should be able to do what we want with it. I could as a kid, nothing should have changed.
Without these two things in place, our 'new' creations will simply be those things that are planned and accounted for. In this context, are they really creations, or just natural selection of the controlled set of possibilities?
The difference is more than you think.
When I was in high school, I was connecting my computer to other things and making them go. Nobody told me computers were bad. Nobody told me it could not be done. Nobody told me that I could be breaking the law by simply learning and sharing with others the results!
When I asked the question, and gave the answer, I really meant this:
Those who built their empires today fear for their future. They were the kids typing in the codes, learning new things and in a position to take advantage of it.
Now they use their position not to further the industry, but to secure their position in it AT THE EXPENSE OF THE REST OF US. This is wrong at its most basic level and a lot of people here know it.
Problem is that most everyone else doesn't!
That is what the fu*k happened!
Now it is not all bad, we all have machines, they are cheap and connected. Good, but getting stale. It's time for the next round.
Somewhere in a small town high school, a group of kids might be computing on whatever they can find. It is likely they are using Linux and learning more together then they could ever learn alone.
Good for them and good for us.
Hope they see a coupla issues of Compute! or Byte! and know that they are doing the right thing.
If they can get the same encouragement and freedom we all did, then perhaps we just might get the benefit, just as our elders did.
I don't know about the Perl Journal, but I agree about the Ads in CC. Didn't that happen about the time that Jon Anderson died?
The only Perl Journal copy I have is the one with the cool Atari stuff on the cover. Nice publication at that time.
I still have "Mapping the Atari". Same story. If you wanted to know something about how that machine worked, all but a few details were in there.
Your DMCA thought really punches the point home. It is already a reality that a book with the title "Understanding DVD-ROM" cannot be published with anything near the level of detail enjoyed by Compute! readers 15 or so years ago.
Amen!
Things were not the same --ever after the end of CC.
When I was young, I read every one of these publications. Learned more than I could use at the time.
Today, it is not so important to know that poke 710,0 would turn the screen background black on an Atari. Their time has passed for the most part and we could all focus our energy elsewhere today.
It is important to remember the spirit of the times though. Hacking around the guts of your machine was encouraged and reported on! New techiques covered every aspect of these machines as people used them in almost every way, but the way they were designed for!
What the Fu*k happened? People who only smell money and have no regard for others is what happened! We should be ashamed for letting them.
One interesting thing was the included source code and programming techniques. Compute used to publish games and utilities written for all the major machines at the time! Never thought about it much as a kid, just thought it was cool.
Fast forward today and what is that exactly? Open source! Not only that, but in popular publications where EVERYONE COULD SEE!
A lot could be done with this code and it made each issue worth its purchase price.
Open source preserves this spirit with todays hardware. Instead of text editors, assemblers, sprite editors we get Office Suites, C Compiliers, and OpenGL modelers.
Seriously, the technology to meet everyones basic computing needs is already done! Nobody should have to keep paying and paying for it.
Thanks for a nice reminder of exactly why I choose to use Open Tools! Somehow we need to get more people in the know. Once they do, they will never go back. Just as none of us who actually read these things did!
Really,
I *will* play any media I purchase on any device I own anytime I like and in any fashion I like; or I won't buy it.
It really is just that simple because I don't have the time for anything else.
What I love to hear is the how and why this will make you more money. You raise the cost of distribution, piss off your loyal customers, limit title avaliability, yet plan to make more money?
Really! how?