Posted by
ryuzaki0
on from the my-first-love dept.
wasaty writes "Yesterday new PINE came out. Main new feature is (at last!) threading support. Look here for a full list of changes." Ah, my first "real" e-mail program; watching it change is like watching evolution in motion.
410 comments
The Tao of Linux
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0, Offtopic
Something forms itself from the silent void of the empty mailing lists and the noisy chaos of the crowded mailing lists. It shapes and protects us, it entertains and challenges us, it aids us in our journey through the ether world of software. It is mysterious; it is at once source code and yet object code. I do not know the name, thus I will call it the Tao of Linux.
If the Tao is great, then the box is stable. If the box is stable, then the server is secure. If the server is secure, then the data is safe. If the data is safe, then the users are happy.
In the beginning there was chaos in Unix.
Tanenbaum gave birth to MINIX. MINIX did not have the Tao. MINIX gave birth to Linux 0.1 and it had promise. Linux gave birth to v1.3 and it was good. v1.3 gave birth to v2.0 and it was better.
Linux has evolved greatly from its distant cousins of the old. Linux is embodied by the Tao.
The wise user is told about the Tao and contributes to it. The average user is told about the Tao and compiles it. The foolish user is told about the Tao and laughs and asks who needs it. If it were not for laughter, there would be no Tao. Wisdom leads to good code, but experience leads to good use of that code.
The master Cox once dreamed that he was a Kernel. When he awoke he exclaimed: "I don't know whether I am Cox dreaming that I am a Kernel, or a Kernel dreaming that I am Cox!" The master Linus then said: "The Tao envelopes you. You shall create great code for Linux." "On the contrary," said Cox, "The Tao has already created the code, I will only have to find it and write it down."
A master was explaining the nature of the Tao to one of his students: "Is the Tao in the VM subsystem?" he asked. "Yes," replied the master. "Is the Tao in the scheduler?" he queried again. "The Tao is in the scheduler." "Is the Tao even in the modules?". "It is even in the modules," said the master. "Is the Tao in the Low-Latency Patch?" The master frowned and was silent for much time. "You fail to understand the Tao. Go away."
The Tao is the yin and the yang. It is the good and the evil, it is everything and yet it is nothing, it is the beginning and the end.
The Tao was there at the kernel compile, and it will be there when the kernel panics.
A novice user once asked a master: "Why compile in C when C++ is more popular?" "Why a monolythic kernel when Mach is more popular?" "And why use ReiserFS when ext2 is more popular?"
The master sighed and replied: "Why run Unix when NT is more popular?" The user was enlightened.
A frustrated user once asked a master: "My kernel has panicked, should I post to lkml?" "No," replied the master, "You will only bother the Tao." "Should I rm -rf?" "No, you will have wasted the Tao's time." "Well should I search the web?" "You will search for all eternity," said the master. "Perhaps I should try FreeBSD?" "Then you will have disgraced the Tao." "I suppose I could try gdb," said the user. The master smiled and replied: "Then you will have made the Tao stronger."
A stubborn user once told a master: "I run version 2.2. I always have, and I always will." The master replied: "You are foolish and do not understand the Tao. The Tao is dynamic and ever changing. Linux strives for the perfection that is the Tao. It flows from version to version with peace."
"So my Linux does not have the Tao, so what?" said the foolish user. "Oh your Linux is of the Tao," said the master. "However, the Tao of Linux follows the Tao of the C library. One day the C library will change, and your Linux will be left behind." The user was silent.
An angry user once yelled at a master:
"My Linux has panicked! What lousy software it is, I hate it so!" "You are insulting the Tao," said the master. "The Tao is everywhere bringing order to hundreds of networks, aiding thousands of users, and fighting that of which we call the 'lame.' Do not disrespect the Tao; however, the Tao will forgive you."
"I apologize," said the user, "And I will be more forgiving the next time the Tao fails me."
"The Tao has not failed you, it is you that has failed the Tao," said the master. "The Tao is perfect." The Tao decides if a kernel shall compile, or if it shall abort. The Tao decides if a kernel shall boot, or if it shall freeze. The Tao decides if a kernel shall run, or if it shall panic. But, the Tao does not decide if a box will have no hardware failures. That is a mystery to everyone.
A young master once approached an old master: "I have a LUG for Linux help. But, I fail to answer my students' problems; they are above me." The master replied: "Have you taught them of the Tao?" he asked. "How it brings together man and software, yet how it distances them apart; how if flows throughout Linux and transcends its essence?" "No," exclaimed the apprentice, "These people cannot even get the source untarred." "Oh, said the master, "In that case, tell them to RTFM."
A master watched as an ambitious user reconstructed his Linux.
"I shall make every bit encrypted," the user said. "I shall use 2048 bit keys, three different algorithms, and make multiple passes." The master replied: "I think it is unwise." "Why?" asked the user. "Will my encryption harm the mighty Tao, which gives Linux life and creates the balance between kernel and processes? The mighty Tao, which is the thread that binds the modules and links them with the core? The mighty Tao, which safely guides the TCP/IP packets to and from the network card?" "No," said the master, "It will hog too much cpu."
The core is like the part of the mind that is static. It is programmed at a child's creation and cannot be changed unless a new child is made; unless a new kernel is compiled. The modules are like the part of the mind that is dynamic. It is reprogrammed every time one learns new knowledge; every time one learns better code. One is yin, the other yang. Each is nothing without the other.
A novice came to lkml and inquired to all the masters there: "I wish to become a master. Must I memorize the Linux header files?" "No," replied a master. "Must I submit code to Bitkeeper?" "No," replied the master. "Must I meditate daily and dedicate my life to Linux?" "No," replied the master again. "Must I go on a quest to ponder the meaning of the Tao?" "No. A master is nothing more than a student who knows something of which he can teach to other students." The novice understood. And thus said the master: "It is the way of the Tao."
A user came to a master who had great status in lkml. The user asked the master: "Which is easier: implementing new features to the kernel or documenting them?" "Implementing new features," replied the master. The confused user then exclaimed: "Surely it is easier to write a few sentences in the man page than it is to write pages of code without error?" "Not so," said the master. "When coding, the Tao of Linux opens my eyes wide and allows me to see beyond the code, to let the source flow from my fingers, to implement without flaw. When documenting, however, all I have to work with is a C in high school English."
He who compiles from the stable tree is stubborn and unwilling to change, but is guaranteed reliability. He who compiles from the current tree is wise but perhaps too conformist, but is guaranteed steadiness. He who compiles from the unstable tree is adventurous and is guaranteed new innovations: some good, some bad. He who compiles straight from Bitkeeper is brave but guaranteed turbulence. They are all of the Tao. One shall respect the old, and debug the new; none shall argue over which is greatest.
There once was a user who scripted in Perl: "Look at what I have to work with here," he said to a master of core, "My code is interpreted dynamically, the syntax is unique and simple, I have sockets, strings, arrays, and everything I could ever need. Why don't you stop meddling in C and come join me?" The C programmer described his reasoning to the scripter: "Script is to C as ebonics is to Latin. If the scripter does not grow beyond that of which he scripts, he will surely [die]. Besides, without C, how can there be script?" The scripter was enlightened, and the two became close friends.
You know I've been a computer hobbyist for many years and am interested in science and so on. I very rarely find "geek humor" funny, especially parodies and anything that I see repeatedly. I guess the technology in it is usually so superficial that it doesn't seem clever or witty.
Then people keep posting it. I often wonder if the demographic of "geek humor" is really freaks rather than people who have intellectual interests.
Re:The Tao of Linux
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Hey punk, you used BitKeeper's trademark twice in there, without permission. I demand you take this post down or pay me $500 per use. I have to feed my family and pay my mortgage.
My school added an "amazing new webmail feature" this year, but I really wasn't that impressed with it. The sad thing is that they probably paid some company for the webmail app, even though you can download several different ones at freshmeat.net for free.
Anyway, the point is that PINE is still used today even though many consider it antiquated. For people like myself who know all the shortcuts and don't mind an all-text interface, it's superb.
So, PINE is certainly not dead, and many of us still use it on occasion when away from the office. It's much faster than VNCing into your home box and using Outlook.
Re:Still useful
by
Fweeky
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· Score: 5, Insightful
When you're on the go, give PINE a call;-)
Or mutt, which doesn't have such a large history of security holes, and which has had basic features like threading for years:P
Re:Still useful
by
coryboehne
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· Score: 3, Insightful
Really, when I'm on a *nix box I prefer to use Pine over ANY other option.... I actually enjoy the somewhat antiquated interface (reminds me of the good ol' days when that was the only option) and I love the fact that it is super fast.
I can't really understand the reason to add threading support... It's kinda like putting a bigger engine in a Corvette without putting more rubber on the ground.. It's a waste really, the program is so fast already with such low overhead that I have never had any problems with speed... Maybe I'm just missing something and there really is a great reason for this... I just don't see it.
Oh well though, great to see that it is still being maintained by someone, and that there are others out there that care about the wonderful program known to all as PINE.
Re:Still useful
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
I love pine because it is so simple I hope they don't change it much feature wise. The best part is it works any where I can put an SSH connection though to my server. Not to mention it doesn't download images I don't want with some HTML interpreter I don't want interpreting spam I don't want.
Re:Still useful
by
FFFish
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· Score: 5, Insightful
And which is now the default email client for my university; they tossed Pine the other week because it's a security risk...
--
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
Re:Still useful
by
coryboehne
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· Score: 4, Informative
Duh, damn programmer mindset getting me into trouble again....
Now that I look at it again I realize that they don't mean the kind of threading I was thinking about, they mean theading as in nesting.... D'Oh!
Dearest Moderators: This is not flamebait, I am replying to myself to acknoledge that I made a stupid mistake.... thank you.
Re:Still useful
by
Chicane-UK
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· Score: 5, Interesting
Indeed...
I implemented a Web Mail system where I work this year for students - downloaded for free from horde.org. Its a very powerful system and is currently serving 30,000 student accounts on a mid priced Dell server.
But back onto the topic, I have tried quite a few email applications in my time - the college where I work has recently just phased out out old POP3 Linux mail server in favour of an Exchange 2000 server. To be fair, it has been pretty good so far.
But Pine has to be one of my very favourite email apps - small, quick, and very easy to use. I even found that Windows users with no experience of *nix could get to grips with Pine pretty quickly, which is no mean feat.
I'll make sure I download this version:)
-- "Hey! Unless this is a nude love-in, get the hell off my property!!"
Well, pardon me if I'm wrong... but if you are fond of all-text interface (+aalib for viewing attached images, etc.:-) as I am and if you were really willing to learn _all_ the kbd shortcuts in pine, then mutt (and NOT pine) is the right client for you. Mutt has had threading support for _ages_, it is a much more powerful tool and the kbd shortcuts are IMHO more logical, especially to someone used to work with Linux and the editor vim.
Ever been subscribed to a prolific e-mail conferrence? Say hundreds of mails daily? And did you manage to keep track of the separate discussion threads WITHOUT a mail client that supports threading? Well, you have my respect, but I really like the computer to do such things for me...
I hated (some) of the keybindings in mutt -- luckily it's pretty trivial to rebind them.
I now control 90% of all my mutt usage from the cursor keys. Right goes into a mbox, then into a mail, then into a list of the parts of a mail, then into individual parts which weren't displayed inline. Left goes in the other direction, and up/down do what you'd expect.
Numpad '0' (bound to next unread message), PageUp/Dn and 'r' make up most of the other 10%:)
Re:Still useful
by
SquadBoy
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· Score: 3, Informative
Damned straight. I love my mutt. The one big reason is that I can SSH to my box from anywhere and get my mail. Mutt does in fact rule and it is also free as in speech.:)
--
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics.
Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
Re:Still useful
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Not to mention a better license.
Re:Still useful
by
minektur
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· Score: 2, Informative
The short answer to your question is: procmail.
I get about 400 email a day -- several mailing lists that I occasionaly browse, personal, work, etc.
procmail puts them all in different inboxes, and pine lets me just check the inboxes that I feel like looking at...
For people like myself who know all the shortcuts and don't mind an all-text interface, it's superb.
Hell, you don't even need to know a single text command - try using pine in an xterm, or try the Windows version of Pine... using your mouse!! Yep, you can click on any text element, like a message in your inbox, or the command lists down the bottom, or a link and it all works. Of course, it's ten times slower than using the keyboard and a lot more clumsy, but it did make me laugh when I tried it.
I love pine... there's a few things that are annoying just like any reader but for fast an efficient emailing I've never found anything to match it.
Re:Still useful
by
Jucius+Maximus
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· Score: 3, Insightful
"My school added an "amazing new webmail feature" this year, but I really wasn't that impressed with it. The sad thing is that they probably paid some company for the webmail app, even though you can download several different ones at freshmeat.net for free."
It will still save them money because they will get significantly fewer calls from people who don't know how to set up pop3 and smtp in their Outbreak Express. My univ. also introduced one of these and it is pretty convenient. Click a quick shortcut in mozilla and enter uid/pass as opposed to starting telnet session, connect to mail server, start pine, go to inbox...
The sad thing is that they probably paid some company for the webmail app, even though you can download several different ones at freshmeat.net for free.
Well, I think you're wrong, because Bucknell is using Horde/IMP, which is opensource, and is used by 99% of schools because it's $free$.
I'm seeing a lot of posts in this thread basically saying "I use lots of different computers and I can access PINE anywhere -- who needs web mail?"
The problem is with security. There are two ubiquitous tools on almost any computer: a telnet client, and a web browser. In fact, computers rarely have ssh clients installed. So if you want to access PINE remotely, you must telnet in, and I don't need to explain why that's bad.
Alternatively, web mail can be setup with https, and I'd be much more comfortable checking my email when I visit my friend in Europe (for instance) via https, rather than telnet. Of course, _any_ option is a security risk when you're using a public terminal (in a library of internet cafe, say), but if you trust the computer you're using, webmail via https is safer than pine via telnet. And it's easier than installing putty on every computer you want to check email from.
Jason.
Re:Still useful
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
All my lists use have had to abide by the one-subject-at-a-time rule because everyone was using PINE. Let me tell you, this new threading support is making some BIG changes in the scene...
Re:Still useful
by
spacey
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· Score: 3, Informative
pine and mutt can both work over an IMAP or IMAPS connection, which means that you don't have to give them local shell access if you know how to set up a virtual host setup.
Good stuff for security. No ssh, no telnet, less web (most have mildly horrible interfaces).
Yes, the problem is security, though my stance is opposite yours.
I refuse to run any sort of webmail solution on my mail server for security reasons. I am far more comfortable with users accessing their mailboxes with Kerberos or TLS encrypted IMAP and SMTP connections use specially installed and configured software than letting them login from any web browser in the world.
Do you trust that each random system with a web broswer your users are logging in from does not have a keyboard sniffer or trojan installed?
daeley% ping www.mutt.org PING mutt.org (194.70.126.33): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 194.70.126.33: icmp_seq=0 ttl=233 time=163.774 ms 64 bytes from 194.70.126.33: icmp_seq=1 ttl=233 time=163.453 ms 64 bytes from 194.70.126.33: icmp_seq=2 ttl=233 time=165.473 ms 64 bytes from 194.70.126.33: icmp_seq=3 ttl=233 time=163.528 ms 64 bytes from 194.70.126.33: icmp_seq=4 ttl=233 time=164.787 ms
With the Slashdotting of the poor mutt.org server officially underway, I believe the phrase 'screwed the pooch' is applicable here.;)
A binary of mutt precompiled for Mac OS X is available here, but I want to see if mutt.org has anything newer.
-- I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
mutt.org's provider has been having some bandwidth issues for a couple weeks now.
The most current stable release is Mutt 1.4.
Re:Still useful
by
Cadre
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· Score: 3, Informative
So if you want to access PINE remotely, you must telnet in, and I don't need to explain why that's bad.
S/Key support is in most modern Unixes. S/Key + Telnet is very safe. And unless you use PGP (which I'm going to make a wild guess that you probably don't) you can't complain that people can read your unencrypted session and see your email.
Also, Java SSH clients that work in web browsers are a dime a dozen. Just check Freshmeat.
One last thing S/Key + Telnet is far less risky than https at a public terminal to the point that it's very acceptable and quite convenient.
-- All editorial writers ever do is come down from the hill after the battle is over and shoot the wounded.
Re:Still useful
by
gallir
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· Score: 3, Insightful
can't really understand the reason to add threading support... It's kinda like putting a bigger engine in a Corvette without putting more rubber on the ground.. It's a waste really, the program is so fast already with such low overhead that I have never had any problems with speed... Maybe I'm just missing something and there really is a great reason for this... I just don't see it.
Bad, bad, moderators:-). He is not a troll, he's a moron.
It doesn't mean anything like "POSIX Threads. "Threads in Pine" means "message threading", you know, that magic thing that sort and "join" related messages. As my answer to you, here in/.
I've been doing threading in pine for quite a while. You just need to apply the threading patch which is available from various sources on the internet (like http://www.math.washington.edu/~chappa/pine/info/f ancy.html. I've always wondered why the mainline pine didn't integrate it.
-- For every post, there is an equal and opposite re-post.
Re:Still useful
by
pediddle
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· Score: 0, Offtopic
I'd say it's more likely that he's a regular than not, because he's probably seen (as I have) a rash of recent self-replies that get modded down as flaimbait. If I want to insult myself for a stupid mistake, then it's not flaimbait or trolling:)
I used mutt for the longest time but after trying Pine I realised that mutt's IMAP support just doesn't compare to Pine's. For some links related to this, check this
page out (scroll down to the IMAP section).
Another advantage Pine has over mutt is its ability to store address books and configuration files on remote IMAP servers, thus allowing me to always have the same config and updated addresses no matter where I login from. Before flaming please keep in mind that I haven't used mutt since version 1.2.4 was out, if a lot has changed and features like the ones I've mentioned have been added then please feel free to provide more information.
MindTerm was initially a GPLed product, and continued that way for a little over three years. Around the time that support for SSH2 was added, the people behind MindTerm started going more and more commercial (changing from MindBright to AppGate), and when MindTerm 2.0 was released, it was released as a purely commercial product, with no source code included.
However, on the positive side, another company, ISNetworks, has (somewhat) continued development of MindTerm 1.2.1 (the last GPLed version), making a few enhancements and updates. You can find their version at http://www.isnetworks.com/ssh/. You can also find stock releases of MindTerm 1.2.1 floating around on the web and ftp sites, or if you're running Debian, 'apt-get install mindterm'.
MindTerm is a really nifty little tool, as it allows you full SSH/SCP access to a host from any web browser, just by dropping the Java Applet in a web accessible spot on the host. I've been using it for years, and still make frequent use of it.
-- Topher
Re:Still useful
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Since when are those times a sign of a slashdot? I rarely do any better than 160ms.
Re:Still useful
by
Combuchan
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· Score: 4, Informative
If I'm ever trapped at the library or foreign language lab here at my local community college and have to accomplish something more productive than studying or listening to the instructor, I always download PuTTY, a free Win32 SSH client.
The good thing about PuTTY is that the downloable.EXE is the entire program. There's no installer and thus the application can be run from even the most locked down of machines with little difficulty.
PuTTY is also super-stable (has never crashed on me, and Notepad can't even say that) and it's GPL'd. Go PuTTY!
-- "[T]he single essential element on which all discoveries will be dependent is human freedom." -- Barry Goldwater
And mutt is also more free (i.e. free in the DFSG sense), allowing you to distribute modified versions, etc.
Re:Still useful
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
You miss the most important point: IMAP support. That's why I had to switch from mutt to pine a couple of years ago. At work I get about 20,000-30,000 messages per month which are delivered to a cyrus imapd server running on my workstation. I filter those messages to different folders but also keep a copy in a YYYY-MM folder. So sometimes I go to those backup folders and search on 20-30K messages in less than a couple of seconds as long as is not a full text search (Searches on Subject, From, To, Participant, Date, etc. are _fast_) I tried the same thing using mutt, and a few GUI clients. All of them were *much* slower than pine. mutt took more than 10 seconds _opening_ the folders with threading disabled, and about 30 seconds with threading enabled. The only MUA that looks to have comparable IMAP support is Mulberry, but last time I tried to use version 2 didn't have some features I need, and version 3 was very unstable. Even threading on mulberry is fast as long as you use an IMAP server that supports it (like cyrus 2.x)
What, I have to REBIND my cursor keys to actually be useful?
What, is this mutt program still using the paradigm that you must be sshing from a console without cursor keys and you need to press hjkl to move around?
-- <grub> Reading/. at -1 is like driving through Cracktown in a convertible that is stuck in 1st
Pine is not small. I know back in the day our system administrators use to hate it because having many people use it would cause a really high load on the unix machines. They much preferred people to use elm.
You misunderstood threading support. It refers to threading messages and not program threads. This way related messages are kept together just like the threading here on slashdot.
-- A musician without the RIAA, is like a fish without a bicycle.
Wow, you are a clever karma whore. You get +5 for your mistake, and then +4 for your followup pointing out that it was a mistake. BOTH of your posts should be -1, offtopic. And I'll be looking for these moderation abuses on meta-mod.
Returning from a week at Camp Baldwin with my Scout troop in August, 2001, I had about 40MB in my spool. I waited 5 minutes before I gave up and looked for something better.
Mutt took seconds. And it threaded it all for me.
Between the security holes, non-free licensing and somewhat goofball design, I'd call it Outlook Express for Unix, but at least Pine works most of the time, something I can't say about OE.
I actually enjoy the somewhat antiquated interface
Then you'd really love the program I use to read mail -- I use/bin/mail. I have become one of those old computing dinosaurs that I used to laugh at when I was younger.
(Well, I use/bin/mail for the first pass at reading my mail, then I use rmail in emacs for the second pass to file everything more permanently.)
I just can't find an ISP which provide mail via IMAP. I was asking around, yes I did, all answers basically fall from blank stares to "IMAP ? No, we are just an ISP..." and "SSH ? Why ?".
Pine has had threadding for a couple of years, but not configurable threadded display modes. You can even make it look like mutt's threads (there's an option for that now) if you want, so you don't have to deal with the ancient elm-like commands that mutt had. 8)
Just for anyone wondering, its www.mutt.org, not mut.org
Re:threads
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Oops, you typoed. Doesn't matter since it is either down or/.'ed. Here's the google cache of the mirrors page. Not a goat link. Put mutt email mirrors in google and go there yourself if you are paranoid.
... watching it change is like watching evolution in motion.
Hum, not quite yet. But, it is definitely catching up.
Re:Evolution in Motion
by
mhesseltine
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· Score: 1, Offtopic
I love pico. I just installed a Debian box, however, and Pine doesn't seem to fit the licensing for Debian, so I installed nano. It's very similar to pico, without the security problems of pine.
Well, slow motion... sometimes it's hard to imagine what they could possibly have done to Pine to enhance it over what I used to use on the old Auburn University VAX's so many years ago, but then again I can't think of any other real application that has aged so well.
This is exactly why people are so attached to it. Not everyone likes to latch on to the latest and greatest bleeding-edge technology. Sometimes when you find a really good app for its day, you stick with it even when new ones come along that are better, though "better" being a relative term.
At my house, my wife is the Pine enthusiast. She only switched to using Mozilla mail because I got lazy and dragged my feet installing Pine on her shiny new RH 8.0 laptop and she got tired of waiting. Even with the increased ease of viewing images in emails inline and such, she still pines for Pine. And, yes, she loves pico.
I'll be you I'll wind up installing it on that laptop before the holidays.
-- Karma: Frotzed (mostly due to the Frobozz Magic Karma Company)
Re:Evolution in motion
by
terkozer
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· Score: 5, Funny
To really watch Evolution in motion peform the following steps...
obtain one (1) laptop & install favourite linux distro (debian in my case)
apt-get install evolution (or however you would install an app in your favourite distro).
make sure laptop is unplugged from electrical, ethernet sockets..
pick laptop up and hurl as far as possible across room.. (also, ignore all those wierd looks you get from co-workers)
last but not least, hope atleast somebody finds this funny..
What does pine have againt elm anyway?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Funny
Hell no. Real men watch the LEDs on their hub and decipher the packets in real time. And we don't use the hard drives (huh huh. huh huh. hard.) when we can keep it all in our head.
As for telnet $SMTP_HOST, forget that. Real men don't waste time talking to lusers.
Re:Pine, Schmine...
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
less $MAIL and nc $SMTP_HOST 25 work just fine for me, thank you.
A.
Re:Pine, Schmine...
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
I searched around my entire desktop and all of my menu bars and could not find the icon for "cat". How do you run that?
Re:Pine, Schmine...
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Everytime I see an example using a pipe when it's not necessary, I get the feeling that people are more interested in what's flashy than simple.
Or maybe they're just doing it out of habit because of all the other commands they run daily, which produce text output, piped to more.
If you think the extra pipe makes that big of a deal, you're nuts. When you type as fast as an admin does the extra time (and resource) usage you complain about is hardly significant enough to warrant your whining.
> Oy the idiosy. Why are people obsessed with using pipes frivolously? > more/var/spool/mail/$USER
There is a good reason for using "cat" in this way. If you are using "more" directly as you suggest, then if someone else logged in on the same machine uses the command "w" to see what everone else is doing, they will see that you are reading your mail spool file directly, and either (a) laugh at you for being such a unix geek, or (b) realize that you are someone they can ask all their dumb unix questions. On the other hand, if you are using "cat" as the previous poster suggested, anyone else doing "w" will simply see that you are running "more", but won't know what you are reading with "more".
(And yes, of course anyone who knows enough to be familiar with the "ps" command will know what you are doing either way.)
Well, maybe not, but seriously, distributing modified binaries of pine is illegal, which really cramps my style;-). There are other mail readers I would reccomened over pine, namely mutt, or elm, spruce, sylpheed, or balsa, all of which are Free as in speech.
Re:Pine is EVIL!!!
by
Servo
·
· Score: 5, Informative
Not entirely. I used to maintain PINE for Debian quite some time ago.
Because it wasn't entirely "free as in speech", it was required to go into the non-free section. Unless they've drastically changed the license since I last paid any attention to it, it required:
1) Modified versions were required to be designated with a L (iirc) after the version number to signal they had been changed before compiling.
2) You are not allowed to sell the binaries, or distribute them on a "for sale" media.
3) Permission is required before distributing the binaries.
The big deal with Debian was that it could not be included in the normal section because of #2, and I think the powers that be at the time were pissed off at #3 as well. At the time I was managing PINE for Debian, practically all of the other distro's included a compiled version of PINE. It pissed me off because the controlling group within Debian didn't want to work out a deal with UW to allow Pine to be distributed as a normal package within Debian.
FYI, this was back when Bruce Peren's had his weekly temper tantrums and threaten to go work for Redhat instead.
-- A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the tongue you may never get over. -Benjamin Franklin
Ah, I see. Good info, thanks for clearing that up.
Re:Pine is EVIL!!!
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Why wouldn't you want to use something like ALPINE?
Re:Pine is EVIL!!!
by
WzDD
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
> Not entirely. I used to maintain PINE for
> Debian quite some time ago.
Ah, I was wondering what the maintainer thought about the whole situation.:-)
I'm maintaining Pine for a programming society at my university, and I encountered a fair bit of resistance of the "It's not Free enough" variety. While people may certainly choose to believe this, my reading of license indicated to me that it was permissible to do what I was doing - ie, compile it from source, perhaps even make local changes, as long as I changed the version number. I often wondered why the Debian Pine installer - which downloads the source, applies patches, compiles and makes a local.deb - disappeared. It's nice - I guess - to know that the reason is as I suspected: ideological, rather than due to any legitimate legal concerns.
Mandrake 9.0 dosen't include Pine anymore too.
Too bad I liked it, but I do support GPL software, if pine have those restrictions, it's better that someone just program another (maybe better) similar mail program.:P
Well, slow motion... sometimes it's hard to imagine what they could possibly have done to Pine to enhance it over what I used to use on the old Auburn University VAX's so many years ago, but then again I can't think of any other real application that has aged so well. I first used pine MANY years ago, but most recently used it oh... well... last week probably.
But I think the best reason to love Pine has to be... PICO! Yes! Yes! Flame me! I use PICO!!!
Long Live Pine! I use it everyday, and it is good to see it evolving. Remember the days of unix apps like Pine and Lynx, and that was the only way to do your work on the Internet? Oh wait, these are still those days...
-- DISCLAIMER:
I don't believe what I write, and neither should you.
Don't use it.
by
fahrvergnugen
·
· Score: 5, Informative
FreeBSD says this when I try to make PINE from ports:
SECURITY NOTE: The pine software has had several remote vulnerabilities discovered in the past, which allowed remote attackers to execute arbitrary code as you on your local system, by the action of sending a specially-prepared email. All such KNOWN problems have been fixed, but the pine code is written in a very insecure style and the FreeBSD Security Officer believes there are likely to be other undiscovered vulnerabilities. Do you wish to proceed with the installation of pine anyway?
Does the new version address any of the issues that lead to this message appearing?
Yes, it allows to render BOLD html text as plain text.
Re:Don't use it.
by
erik+umenhofer
·
· Score: 3, Informative
I believe this warning comes from the fact it requires pico to build. IIRC, pico was the major problem and not pine. Of course, a bug is a bug no matter what the source. Me thinks that's what the problem was.
but the pine code is written in a very insecure style and the FreeBSD Security Officer believes there are likely to be other undiscovered vulnerabilities
What is it about the coding sytle that makes it very insecure?
-Bill
-- SlashSigKarma: Excellent (mostly affected by moderatio
Re:Don't use it.
by
hydrofi
·
· Score: 2, Informative
PICO is Pine's message composition editor and it is integrated to PINE as default. So PICO is in fact just PINE without the mail-thingie.
Re:Don't use it.
by
dd301
·
· Score: 2, Informative
What is it about the coding sytle that makes it very insecure?
A simple grep through the sources shows that there about 4,000 occurrences of insecure string copying (potential buffer overflows).
A simple grep through the sources is inadequate to determine if the string copying is insecure or not. Chances are, most of those copies work with strings of a known length.
strcpy is not insecure if used properly.
Re:Don't use it.
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Informative
The claim of bad coding style would take a ground up re-write to fully address. A diff between v4.44 and v4.50 shows that the new version is far from being a complette ground up re-write. The FreeBSD and OpenBSD users tend to follow the philosophy that security must be part of the design structure from the beginning. Most Windows users end up following the philosophy that security can be layered on after the fact (virus scanners, third-party personal firewalls, etc). I find that Linux users tend to be in a middle ground between the two philosophies where for application "A" (such as SSH) that hardened security in the design is expected and for application "B" (such as Pine) that resolving known security holes is good enough. To make matters worse, with Pine you are mostly dependant on U of Wash to decide if migrating off poor coding style should be done or not. With mutt or Mozilla, the license allows you to fork the project and start rewriting it function by function while still being able to use the existing code as well. U of Wash has made it clear that Pine is *NOT* Free Software and would most likely attack anyone that promotes a fork of the Pine "product."
The author loves LISP and tries to write C code that does things in a LISP style... Even to the point of using gratuitous #defines like:
#define NIL 0/* convenient name */ #define T 1/* opposite of NIL */ #define LONGT (long) 1/* long T */ #define VOIDT (void *) ""/* void T */
All sorts of type casting and pointer arithmetic too--you just know there's a bug lurking in there somewhere. That said, I still use pine... tried switching to Mutt, but I didn't find it as convenient to use.
A simple grep through the sources is inadequate to determine if the string copying is insecure or not. Chances are, most of those copies work with strings of a known length.
But here's the problem: Even if every single one of those instances of strcpy is a string of "known length" all they have to do is be wrong about that known length and you've got a potential buffer overflow. Strcpy could be secure if used perfectly, but can you ever be sure your code is perfect?
I'll agree that a grep through the source does not qualtify and a security evaluation though.
-- Life is too short to proofread.
Re:Don't use it.
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Wow...
I guess the truth is that the SSH server people run on BSD is just as insecure as they are. Too bad they refuse to admit it.
Most admins I know refuse to run it because the truth is it's a security liability. The commercial SSH client is just so much more secure in comparison.
32-bit High Res Image of PINE
by
ekrout
·
· Score: 4, Funny
Re:32-bit High Res Image of PINE
by
Fweeky
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Can we get a shot of threads? Be interesting to see how it compares with mutt (and no, that's not the default index format or colour scheme)
Re:32-bit High Res Image of PINE
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
You only have 2 e-mails in your inbox. You must be efficient in removing them. Or you don't get any. I have over 700 and none of them are spam.
Re:32-bit High Res Image of PINE
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Funny
sweet screenshot... but man, you've gotta upgrade to OS X.
Re:32-bit High Res Image of PINE
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Black and white? It supports very comprehensive colour themes. Can look very pretty indeed, and supports colouring of specific types of messages -- something missing from many mailers.
Re:32-bit High Res Image of PINE
by
stu72
·
· Score: 3, Informative
This means that if I read a message, it will automatically be moved from the inbox to the read-messages folder upon quitting. This keeps my inbox clean as I used to have a bad habit of letting things pile up. I also have it set to automatically archive sent and read messages. So I read each email, respond if necessary, delete if trivial and not worthy or archiving. Pine does the rest and my inbox stays neat and clean!!
ObPine-Worship: I have used pine on and off for several years and now it is my client of choice for my primary email account. As many readers have mentioned, I love it's speed and simplicity.
Re:32-bit High Res Image of PINE
by
laze2000
·
· Score: 1
As soon as I saw the image, I knew you were from Stanford. Brings back memories with Pine on the elaine servers, telnetting from a Mac...
Re:32-bit High Res Image of PINE
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
It's quite pathetic that you felt the need to let people know that you receive that many non-spam emails a day, considering how irrelevant the entire content of your post is.
Let me guess, you posted as AC because you were worried about what such a stupid comment would do to your karma, but you still felt the need to post it.
Re:32-bit High Res Image of PINE
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
You mean the fact that it says "stanford.edu" right next to the link to the image wasn't a clear enough hint for you?
Go Bears! Beat the tree!
Re:32-bit High Res Image of PINE
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Could you post us your.muttrc?
Still loyal
by
doc_traig
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
I'm still a loyal pine user, having cut my teeth first with "mail". What I've noticed, however, is that just about everyone I know who was a happy pine user is now a happy mutt user. I'm only a holdout on switching because I haven't really investigated the differences (if it ain't broke...), but my sense is that by popular majority among CLI mail readers I know, mutt is where you go to get "better-than-pine".
- DDT
-- So long, michael. Don't let the door hit you...
I waited to switch to mutt for a long time because in mutt it is not obvious at all what you have to do to get it to actually read your mail. I had to read a lot of docs, manuals, howtos, and mailing lists to make mutt send and recieve mail in the desired fashion. In contrast Pine was always very easy to configure.
But, I am now much happier with mutt than I was with pine. The only thing mutt lacks from pine is 'zoom'. Is there a mutt analog?
In fact there doesn't even seem to be a next-tagged-message keystroke...
I'm one of those people who switched from pine to mutt. I switched for a number of reasons: better pgp integration, mail threading (no longer an issue), easier to modify code (pine is hellish), a better security history, and a more powerful interface.
mutt isn't as cuddly as pine is, but it was worth it for me. and i get the added bonus that nothing installs pico on my machines now.
No, 'me' is _M_ichael _E_lkins, the original author of Mutt.
People make this mistake pretty often, though. I mostly just maintain the web page, though I have contributed some doc and other patches here and there, and am as active in the user community as RL allows.
Thanks for the correction! I did make the mistake of just checking the bottom of the website. At least I covered my butt and said "I think it is..." thanks for clearing that up. Wow, actually learned something on slashdot - wow;)
Only on/. would you find someone refer to Pine as "cuddly".;)
I agree totally, of course. I haven't tried mutt, but I find Pine much easier to use than any other mail program, including webmail. I'll have to check out mutt some time. Can it import pine's address book, by any chance?
--
-Erf C. Cthulu always calls collect...
Re:Still loyal
by
0x0d0a
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
Well, let's see.
Pine: * Heavily menu-based, easier to learn * Better colorization when reading letters (colorizes each level of replied-to text a different color) * Most keys easier to remember * Has a monthly sent-mail folder. You can do this in mutt, but it takes a bit of work and editing your config file.
Mutt: * More consistent keystrokes...Pine has something like three keystrokes that mean "back out of this screen" -- Q, E, and less-than. Mutt inexplicably still uses both "q" and "i", but it's somewhat better. * Unlike pine, you don't have to turn on something like 50 options to get reasonable functionality out of the program -- pine defaults to an extremely simple set of options, mutt to a much more powerful set. * really, really good PGP support * more and nicer colorization of the UI aside from the recieved mail text.
Both are fairly configurable, mutt more so. Mutt takes much more poking around and time spent to get working the way you want.
I *strongly* suggest using whichever you choose in conjunction with procmail to process your incoming mail. I sort mailing list stuff into mailing list inboxes, filter out viruses, and eat spam with procmail. A little more work to use than the more simplistic filters in a GUI email program, but very powerful, and quite a useful tool to have under the belt.
Ack! Pico is a gift from the heavens. It's the only editor that users can understand without a tutorial. Text editors should not need to be "mastered" over a period of years. Don't get me wrong, vi and emacs have their uses, and vi is great for editing particular config files. But pico is simple, easy to understand, and if I just want to jot something down, I don't have to mess around with all the crap associated with vim or emacs.
Pico should be installed on all Unix boxes by default, and users should be directed as to it's basic use. And it is not like Pico takes up so much precious disk space either, so removing/not installing it really holds no benefit.
Vidar
-- The brains of a chicken, coupled with the claws of two eagles, may well hatch the eggs of our destruction.
Re:Still loyal
by
brianmf
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Pine: * Heavily menu-based, easier to learn * Better colorization when reading letters (colorizes each level of replied-to text a different color) * Most keys easier to remember * Has a monthly sent-mail folder. You can do this in mutt, but it takes a bit of work and editing your config file.
Mutt: * * mutt can colourise each level of replies, it even has a configurable quote-regexp so you can understand weird quote chars. I use good old black on white tho' * mutt keys can be rebound. if you google you may even find a "pine-like" muttrc key-binding scheme. * Whack this in your.muttrc: set record="=sent/`date +%Y-%m`"
Mutt's UI is horrible. I can view my inbox, but how, just how do I get to other folders? I couldn't figure it out. Pines UI, OTOH, is VERY easy to use. I love it. I couldn't figure out mutt, it doesnt even tell you ON THE SCREEN what keypresses are available. Argh! Give me a menu-driver CLI anyday...
-- .
Define sqrt(x) as something really evil like (x / rand()), and bury it deep. Watch your coworkers go nuts.
PINE should be banned from now on ;)
by
misof
·
· Score: 1
Aaargh... why oh why did they have to add the threading support? Looks like pine starts to be usable.. (It's about time, the version is already 4.50...) And that means less mutt users:(( Mutt is the one and only _real_ mail client! Hypnotoad uses mutt! All hail the hypnotoad!
Re:PINE should be banned from now on ;)
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
But honestly what I really am looking for requires only very little development work. It spells "GPL". Please?
--
- El riesgo siempre vive - Private J. Vasquez
License Issues w/ Pine
by
irregular_hero
·
· Score: 5, Informative
Pine is a really nice mail app, for sure. But I still think it has one of the quirkiest licenses of any source-available application out there. It specifically forbids development and support of branches of the codebase -- if I add a cool new feature that the maintainers refuse to add (web browsing, maybe), then I can't split off and make "Joe's Pine," I have to distribute a diff file with the original source tarball.
Re:License Issues w/ Pine
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
the alternative to pico - which is the editor for pine is nano check it out...ofcourse theres mutt for the pine replacement;)
Re:License Issues w/ Pine
by
dw5000
·
· Score: 2, Informative
It specifically forbids development and support of branches of the codebase -- if I add a cool new feature that the maintainers refuse to add (web browsing, maybe), then I can't split off and make "Joe's Pine," I have to distribute a diff file with the original source tarball.
If you ever had to work with the University of Washington's patent and copyright folks, you'd understand. Since the university is an exceedingly underfunded institution, they demand their cut on all patents -- and Japanese companies compensate their internal inventors better.
Trust me, you want to put any homemade mods into your own personal tarball. If not, the University of Washington will act as if your mod is their personal property.
Re:License Issues w/ Pine
by
dbenbenn
·
· Score: 1
Well, here's a working version of the link above. Nano is GPL, it has the same interface as Pico, and it has a bunch of cool features like multi-buffer support, syntax coloring, and smooth scrolling. (Make sure to get the 1.1.12 "unstable" version.)
Re:License Issues w/ Pine
by
Clue4All
·
· Score: 3, Informative
It's like that for a very good reason. Pine was around BEFORE the GPL. Hell, Pine was around before there was open source as we know it. WU wrote a license that fit their needs and still allowed for the freedom its users wanted, and is still as such today. The people that shout about how evil Pine is because it isn't GPLed really need to do some reading.
Re:License Issues w/ Pine
by
irregular_hero
·
· Score: 2
That would make sense -- if the license didn't also make the program free to use for all entities both commercial and non-commercial. They may be exceedingly underfunded, but they aren't deriving _any_ income from Pine by license!
So, the question stands: What gives with the license?
Pine was around before version 2 of the GNU GPL would be a true
statement. Version 1 of the GNU GPL however, actually
appeared a whole 11 months before Pine.
According to Pine's history page, pine was conceived in 1989. The GPL first got its name in 1988 as documented here, and the GNU Project was first announced in 1983.
Btw, as a Pine user, I can assure you that the license doesn't allow all the freedom I want. The primary system on which I use Pine runs Debian. Due to pine's non-free license (and, likely, the advent of mutt), Pine fell out of active maintenance by Debian. So, I have to fetch and build the source myself outside the package system instead being able to apt-get security updates. Even prior to that, Debian switched to only distributing pine as a source package - apparently due to the Pine license change "clarifying" that distributing modified versions is forbidden.
I wouldn't go so far as to call the pine license Evil, but I think it is unfortunate. If there were a clone with the same interface, so as to not disrupt the long-time pine users on the system (including myself), I'd switch to it. As it stands, pine has about 7 years of finger memory going for it.
"PINE releases 4.50"
by
nakaduct
·
· Score: 4, Funny
Good for them. I myself just released 2.10, for a can of pop and bag of chips. That comes on the heels of a 1.30 release, into a parking meter.
I stopped using pine as my mail client (about three years i was using it) for three reasons:
1. Doesn't support Maildir in the main code, only thru third-party patches, and pine guys rejects to add Maildir support to the code, and nobody can do it and publish it, because of their license.
I hear people rant and rant aobut mutt but I still use pine. As I can tell, the keys for mutt suck out of the box, and I can't be bothered researching how to configure it and then spending however long it will take to tweak it. I believe in software that just works. Why do the mutt keys have to suck so much? (this is coming from a hardened vim user, btw;) )
Sorry, have to jump in here. Do you really resent all other licenses that much that you only use GPL'ed applications? Must be tough living without apps that have other licenses, like the MIT/Athena license (XFree86). Artistic license (Perl), or Python (Python license), and others. Or do you really mean that you resent using software that isn't compatible with GPL?
The 1st and 3rd reason you gave are valid ones, the second needs explanation...
The 1st and 3rd reason you gave are valid ones, the second needs explanation...
I think by "Is not GPL", he meant "is a brain-damaged PIA license that is fundamentally intolerable to most modern Linux distributions." PINE doesn't let you distributed patched binaries, meaning that distributions can't put files in LFS-compliant places or fix bugs. So Debian, and others, don't want to mess with it, and it ends up outside the packaging system for users.
Do you really resent all other licenses that much that you only use GPL'ed applications?
No, i don't mind other open source licenses, although i prefer GPL for my projects. In my opinion there are too
much 'open source' licenses that don't offer anything new (opensource.org), but, in the case of PINE, Washington University license makes pine anything but
free software.
Must be tough living without apps that have other licenses, like the MIT/Athena license (XFree86). Artistic license (Perl), or Python (Python license), and others.
XFree86 license is less restrictive than GPL, you know,
and no, i don't need to use obfuscated code (i.e Perl) or
Python if I can avoid to;).
If you're a long time Pine fan, then it can actually be very easy to switch to Mutt. Mutt is generally distributed with a couple of sample.muttrc files (mutt config files). Generally one of them is called Pine.rc (/usr/share/doc/mutt/examples/Pine.rc on my Debian box).
Moving this file to ~/.muttrc will actually remap the mutt keys to very closely mimic pine. I did this when I first moved from pine to mutt, and within a day or so, I was using it comfortably. I then spent the next few weeks making minor tweaks to really make mutt work how I want it to.
Note that mutt uses vim much easier than Pine does (I'm a long time vim lover, too;-).
Thanks for that. I'll give it another try. Since you're so helpful..:)
I keep all of my mail (two years worth) in/var/spool/mail. Is there a way of keeping mail longetiviyt like htis with mutt? (I don't have to parse it each time I log in because I use gnu/screen:) )
Doesn't support Maildir in the main code, only thru third-party patches, and pine guys rejects to add Maildir support to the code.
Have you ever noticed that the development of Pine is completely architected and funded by students and faculty of wash.edu? They don't run Maildir on their servers, so why should they even invest time and money in developing support for something they can't test, use, or deploy internally? Pine is used on their internal mail system, and it uses mbox.
If you want Maildir, don't use Pine. If you want the less-capable mail reader, use mutt. Just because mutt supports Maildir does not make it better.
2. Is not GPL
Pine is free. You can make as many patches and additions as you want to it, you just can't redistribute it as "Pine". If you want a GPL clone of Pine (and one that looks and acts IDENTICAL to Pine), you should be using Mana with Nano the editor, both are GPL'd and if you want, encourage their development to suit your needs. If not, you have absolutely no reason to be complaining.
There should be no problem with that. . . I have my incoming mail presorted to different mailboxes, with basically anything that isn't going to a high-volume mailing list going to my Inbox (which is currently ~/Mailbox). Everything that hits my Inbox stays there, unless I explicitely delete it or move it.
My Inbox currently sports about 26,000 e-mails, and sits at around 112MB.;-)
I actually utilize it the same way as you, with a constant screen running so I don't have to parse my (huge) mailbox every time I start.
There is an option (I believe it's "set move=no") that you can set in.muttrc that will tell it to leave e-mail where it is (in your case/var/spool/mail/, and not move it to an alternate folder, if that's what you're wanting.
If you do give mutt a try, one thing I will say for it is that it's among the most configurable e-mail programs I've come across. I highly recommend browsing thorugh this file, which is a "complete" sample.muttrc, including essentially every available configuration directive. I started with the Pine.rc file and then went through the file linked above, and added/changed things as I wanted, until everything "worked" how I wanted it to.;-)
why should they even invest time and money in developing support for something they can't test, use, or deploy internally?
They shouldn't. The problem is that they don't allow ANYBODY to invest his/her/their own time in adding maildir support to pine and release it due to a restrictive license.
If you want Maildir, don't use Pine.
I've said before that i'm not using Pine anymore
If you want the less-capable mail reader, use mutt. Just because mutt supports Maildir does not make it better.
Less-capable? Take your time first looking at all the options mutt offers, and then make your own opinion.
Pine is free.
Yes, if you understand for free: "Make all the changes you like but always as patches because our code is so good that doesn't deserves to be mixed with that Maildir shit"
you should be using Mana [kvaleberg.com]
Yes, or elm, or mutt. All them are good options, and that depends on a personal taste.
you have absolutely no reason to be complaining.
Of course i have reasons. I dislike to see a good MUA like Pine lose users just because their license. But hey, they can do whatever they want, it's their software. I made my choice, and that is mutt. You make your own.
Get your brand new green PINE tree in time to decorate for christmas! You could mod it with all blue lights... imagine a beowulf cluster of christmas trees! Merry Christmas to all!
Seriously though, threads help a ton in organizing messages.:)
-- Just because I doubt myself does not mean I find your position compelling.
Re:PINE in time for Christmas!
by
yack0
·
· Score: 4, Funny
Sorry, those blue lights aren't accepted into the changefiles, so they'll have to go. You may not release your own blue-light-PINE either.
Book em Dano
j
-- --
There is no sig line, only Zuul.
Re:PINE in time for Christmas!
by
DanCo
·
· Score: 1
Book em Dano
Sure thing! Oh, wait - Dano, not DanCo... never mind... Move along, nothing to see here.
-- It's not my fault - greatness was thrust upon me.
Re:PINE in time for Christmas!
by
Joel+Rowbottom
·
· Score: 2
In other news...
by
ivan256
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
In other news, pine would have done this years ago had it truly been free software. Since they don't allow people to distribute modified versions, and they don't like to accept featere enhancements nobody does any work on it. For that reason, everybody with the patience to look for and learn something better has moved on to other text based mail clients.
Re:In other news...
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
There are rules in place to enable the distribution of modified versions.
You can't prove anything that not being open source has harmed the development of PINE. PINE is quite centrally developed and done so by people who are very comfortable and knowledgable about the code base. Heaven forbid people are actually paid to maintain PINE!
Since they don't allow people to distribute modified versions, and they don't like to accept featere enhancements nobody does any work on it
You posted this in the thread announcing a new release. Irony on Slashdot at it's best:o)
-- Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
Use Horde/Imp Webmail!
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
My school added an "amazing new webmail feature" this year, but I really wasn't that impressed with it.
That's because they chose the wrong implementation. At our LUG, we use
Horde/Imp, and are really satisfied with it!
Re:Use Horde/Imp Webmail!
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Yeah, I love having to use IE to access my mail because Netscape 0.08 or so doesn't deal with SSL and dies. Sitting at a Windows machine at school, I'm more likely to use SecureCRT+Pine than I am Horde/Imp.
Scripts are usually safe to run, scripts are usually safe to run...
Can it understand more than one local sender address as not to be included in the reply set?
version number management
by
jki
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Imagine that pine was first released in 1989 and yet the latest version number is reasonable. If this was something else - going to be polite and not mention it:) - you know what it would be like. I mean there's a point in it - the project is more than 10 years old but has stayed very consistent for the whole time. And talking about email clients, that's a miracle.
Have you ever read the project history linked above: " Our goal was to provide a mailer that naive users could use without fear of making mistakes. We wanted to cater to users who were less interested in learning the mechanics of using electronic mail than in doing their jobs; users who perhaps had some computer anxiety". I think they have succeeded well, even now when everyone is used to having all the graphical bells and whistles my Mom - who had never used email before, learned pine quicker than outlook (she never learnt to use it, actually).
Re:version number management
by
pigeon768
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· Score: 1
If this was something else - going to be polite and not mention it:) - you know what it would be like.
*cough*Emacs*cough* 21.2? Yeesh.
Better than the 2000th version of Windows though. =^D
I think they have succeeded well, even now when everyone is used to having all the graphical bells and whistles my Mom - who had never used email before, learned pine quicker than outlook (she never learnt to use it, actually).
Agreed... Pine is one of the most intuitive mail clients I've ever used. (Or at least, it was. I haven't used it in years)
Re:version number management
by
0x0d0a
·
· Score: 2
Actually, the 21.2 is technically supposed to be "0.21.2", but they finally gave up on the 0 since it wasn't ever going to get up to version 1...
Pine was my first e-mail app too. But a single view of those old text menus (and memories of mails lost/rewritten) would send me running to the nearest GUI-driven mail program I could find. Use only as needed (imho).
-- "God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." -Voltaire
But how do you use a GUI client over an SSH tunnel when you are on a low bandwidth connection? The point is pick a tool that is right for the job and for *many* of us that means a CLI mail client.
--
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics.
Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
Then run Mail.app. Encrypted transport, and it goes right out the irritating corporate firewall which blocks IMAP. I've used Pine for about eight years on and off but OS X Mail has pretty much replaced it for me.
I've never seen an elm vs pine flame war. Most of us that have been using elm, look at all pine users as newbies and just ignore them.
I 1st got pine from mod.sources in 1986 and I've been using it ever since. (newbies can group google for v06i031). Its open source thanks to HP.
Anyone else remember the early exploits where people would email vt100 sequences to reprogram the keys so the next time you hit F1 it would "own" your system? Elm was one of the 1st programs to attempt to fix that.
You know, I really have not seen such a debate get as bad as the whole Vi vs. Emacs thing. Infact, Pine contributes positively to the Vi/Emacs debate because it also comes with Pico.... something Vi and Emacs users can unite together to hate. Heh...
Anyway, I personally use Pine for email and Vi for editing. ^_^;
--
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
Re:Hmmm...
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
> I 1st got pine from mod.sources in 1986 and I've been using it ever since.
I've never seen an elm vs pine flame war. Most of us that have been using elm, look at all pine users as newbies and just ignore them.
You may not have seen such, but boy, are you ever trying hard to start one.
Nothing like demonstrating one's l33tness by showing that you can figure out how to use Foo email client instead of Baz email client. Yessiree, that sure is badass.
I'm really curious to know how many users still use pine? I remember when I first got in college, it was the "easiest" mail application for an UNIX-newbie, so I used it for about a week (I didn't like it, so I found out about Emacs VM and never used pine again:-), but now I think things have changed a bit, no?
I mean, very new users tend to use graphical interfaces for almost everything... And there are plenty graphical MUAs ou there. And old, more "advanced" users tend to use more sofisticated or powerful MUAs (graphical or non-graphical), like Emacs' VM, Mutt, etc.
So.... does Pine really still maintain a user-base? If so, what would be the reasons for these users sticking with Pine? (As you can see, I'm not a Pine fan;), but anyways, I'd like to hear from those who are...).
I use pine when I'm away from my home computer and evolution when i'm at home. The reason I still use pine is because I haven't found anything better or at least haven't found a compelling reason to switch to mutt or emacs or mh. Pine with vim as my mail editor (pico sucks) does everything I need it to. Can someone give me a compelling reason to try out another command line mail system?
Even with a webalized email option, many users, even novices, stick to PINE. I know plenty of students at the UW who you wouldn't want within 10 feet of your computer but can use PINE to read/write email. And that's the purpose of PINE, to be an easy-to-use program for people with Other Things To Do Than Configure and Tweak Mail Programs. I don't know about other Universities, but the primary method of accessing email at the UW (computer labs and such) is via SSH and PINE. There's a huge userbase at the UW because PINE is the default (suprise) MUA; I'm sure some students are using mutt (hooray for shell access) but for the majority of students PINE does the job without any hassles. Security and licensing are moot points when everything is hosted on servers run by Computing and Communications.
When a new user first runs pine, it asks them if they would mind sending an anonymous message that would count their use.
I still use pine. It's very very fast. Like searching for some text in a folder with 2500 messages is almost instantaneous. It also helps me cut through crap, reply quickly, and move on. Plus I don't have to use a mouse. I do have my priorities and just load up with 800 mg of Ibuprofen first!
I am old, 43, and suffering from RSI in a muscle in my right shoulder blade from using the mouse too much... However, that doesn't stop me from playing some decent first person shooters with my mouse.
Which reminds me, I was recently quoted in the newspaper here on a story about abandoning the mouse. My quote was ""If you tried to use keyboard commands for an online shooting game, you'd be dead before you could load your weapon," said Ken Weaverling, computer services manager at Delaware Technical & Community College."
I actually said "first person shooter" but the reporter changed it to "online shooting game." Still it was kinda neat even though people where I worked were wondering if they should call Tom Ridge's boys after me...
I've been using pine for about 7 years. I found out about it when I got my first linux install, in 1995. Not long after that I got an ISP which gave a free Unix shell account (via dialup/telnet) with the PPP account (you could buy just the shell account if you wanted.) Since it took a few days for the PPP to start working and the shell account was ready right away I started using pine and liked it.
Now at my final year at my huge university it is still what I use. It is very quick, very small, and I can get to it using every differant computer I use. (I use a *lot* of differant computers.) I see absolutly no advantage that a GUI mail client offers me. I use procmail for spam anyway, and I don't exactly have the most complex mail needs. Pine just works well and I have never said, "Oh, If only I could be able to do X".
So that is why I still use pine. Most of my freinds use it too. In a few months when I leave college I will just setup fetchmail and continue to ssh into my own box to check mail with pine.
And speaking of mutt, it is not installed on the student unix cluster my school maintains so I have never had the chance to use it.
Ah what a great discussion to mod, but nonetheless I feel obliged to reply. I suppose I'm a loyal pine user, I've never used anything else. No IMAP, no POP3, no webmail, etc. With the great help of Mysidia, we converted everything to qmail a couple of years ago and pine works just great. (Had to change a config setting in pine, oh no!) Also, I always answer "no" when changing my sent-mail to the new month, so.. according to my sent-mail my first outgoing email was on August 26, 1997.
Er, anyways, to be on topic, I never switched because I have no reason to. What does GUI provide that I don't have besides pretty pictures? I use the keyboard shortcuts just fine, it's fast, I can save attachments and get them via ftp, I can easily send attachments, I hate html emails, but it parses just enough to make them readable, and all of the features are at most 3 keystrokes away, not to mention wrappers for pgp signing and encrypting!
I've been using Pine for about 5 years now, after moving to unix from Eudora on a Windows box, and am still extremely happy with it. I've tried Mutt, but I didn't like the 'feel' of it as much as Pine. While Mutt's bindings are configurable, the functions they provide just didn't match up to how I use Pine.
I have a great deal of muscle-memory using Pine, and I fly using it, which is extremely important to me. I'm able to perform the operations I want to in Pine very quickly. I also use Pine as my newsreader, but I'm not a heavy news guy.
If there was a mailer I'd switch to it might be nmh, but only with a strongly personalized, self-written frontend.
I've used it for 7 years. I've started looking into Evolution but I'm really just interested in the fact that I _know_ the pine interface back to front. I've always felt a little dirty because of the licensing issue. The only things missing in pine are GPG signing now that threading has been done. Your post has convinced me to have a look at emacs VM. I tried mutt and thought that it's interface was awful.
Re:Users?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
I have a choice at work: 1. dtmail 2. Netscape 4.9's mail 3. Pine
Simple, migrating to mutt or VM is way too much work . I've got a.pinerc that's been hacked on continuously for more than ten years (to the extent that it segfaults anything older than a patched 4.44), the entire interface as spinal reflexes (an mild exaggeration, there are a few keystrokes that I realize I'm typing as I do them), and good IMAP support. The latter has changed quite a bit in recent years, but it still seems that mutt and VM lag. No surprise really, IMAP came out of UW in the first place and they're heavily wed to it.
It's a bit frustrating, I've tried mutt/VM/Gnus and I like them but it's too much work for a few nice features.
I have a choice at work: 1.dtmail 2.Netscape 4.9's mail 3.Pine Which would you use?
LOL, good point. Actually, I've been using Pine by choice for about 6 years. I might use it for another 6. I try a new/different GUI email app every few months, but none has impressed me enough to switch.
dtmail is pretty weak, but it works. Doesn't crash nearly as often as Netscape's mail... but like most of the CDE apps, it has memory leaks up the wazoo.
I still use it. I started with mail then to Elm then to Pine. I use it at home and work. The only change I have made is use Vim as my editor instead of Pico inside of Pine.
Graphical MUA are too slow for me to navigate. Besides, you can use a mouse in Pine in an Xterm if needed.
I've continued to use Pine for years, as have many of my friends and coworkers. It's fast, it's (somewhat) lean, and it just works. I'll probably keep using it for many more years.
I'm really curious to know how many users still use pine?
I use PINE when I'm away or pissed at Eudora; I have a linux box on ADSL with masquarade, and I access my mail through IMAP and Eudora. Doing so enables me to ssh into my box from away, and not only read my e-mail, but also have access to all my mail folders and whatnot.
Besides, PINE is invaluable to debug mail problems for a given user while working on the server...
It's strange how people will stick to pine. I don't mean novice UNIX users, I mean regular people who have no idea what UNIX really is still have an unusual fondness for pine. Chalk one up for simplicity.
I still use pine quite often (mainly for local system mail), and even better that it comes with pico. Personally I'm a 'vi' user, but if I'm away I may have to talk to the next highest on the computer food chain (ie - a slightly above average windows user) though editing some text on the phone.
I use pine exclusively and have been doing so since about 1996. I have it configured to use vi as my composer instead of pico. Its powerful, fast, and doesn't take up nearly as much screen real estate as a graphical MUA. Plus one can use it over a telnet/ssh session.
Pine rocks. Maybe one day I'll switch to mutt but pine suits me just fine thank you.
I started with Elm, moved on to Pine. Since then, I have used xfmail, TKRat, Kmail, Sylpheed, Evolution, and mutt. Now I'm back to Pine.
Basically, xfmail was adequate but ugly, TKRat was slow, KMail, Sylpheed and Evolution are promising but full of bugs, and mutt doesn't offer enough to me to be a compelling change - though I'm sure if I checked it out recently (I last looked at it two years ago) I'd have to re-think that statement.
I tried Sylpheed and Evolution quite early on in their development. Perhaps they've improved. However, I value simplicity and speed in my interface over features, and frankly Pine does most of what I want.
I use Maildir, and courier-imap. Every so often I check out a bunch of new mail readers, and I've found that using IMAP to arbitrate access to my mail is the best way to ensure it stays consistent (short of fiddling about with dummy Maildirs, of course).
I do not use Pico to edit my emails. I use joe on the console, and nedit in a GUI.
I've been using pine since 1994. I've tried a few GUI mailers, but always end up waiting on them (Netscape mail, Mail.app, stuff like that). I've played with mutt a few times, but never found anything pine couldn't do, but had trouble getting it to do the basic stuff I care about. I read my mail from two different machines just about every day.
The most important features for me:
* Server-side config
* Multiple incoming folders (tab to flip through them)
* Multiple roles...and, of course, being able to use it it without thinking.:)
--
--
The world is watching America, and America is watching TV.
Re:Users?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Pine just works well and I have never said, "Oh, If only I could be able to do X".
Actually, I did -- I searched through the options on pine and didn't find where I could have it randomly choose a sig, so i wrote a shell script to do this, then call pine. Works quite nicely. I've even bothered to update it once in a while.
And speaking of mutt, it is not installed on the student unix cluster my school maintains so I have never had the chance to use it.
Nor at mine, though I played with it at my work. It's okay, and I use it in preference to pine there, but I don't think I am overwhelmingly dedicated to mutt (over pine).
Actually, I did -- I searched through the options on pine and didn't find where I could have it randomly choose a sig, so i wrote a shell script to do this, then call pine. Works quite nicely. I've even bothered to update it once in a while.
There is an option to do that! PINE allows you to use a script as your signature. Simply use "~/mysig.pl|" as your signature and then do the sig selection in the script. Works like a charm!
Don't care about PINE, love PICO
by
ecliptik
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· Score: 2, Informative
I for one really don't care about Pine that much as as mail program. I love Pico, the wonderful little text editor that comes with it. Yeah I know there's the GPL nano, but I'm still pico all the way, and put it on every unix machine I use. It's nice to see that the one app I use probably more than any other is still in development.
Re:Don't care about PINE, love PICO
by
guacamole
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· Score: 1, Redundant
No, just a retard who hasn't learned how to use a real text editor;p
Pico rules!
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Pico (the simple text editor that comes with Pine) should be a standard feature with every *nix distribution... it's hard enough for newbies to fix problems and set up features on their new machines without having to struggle through vi (or clugging through whatever GUI text editor the distributor's peddling).
Re:Pico rules!
by
stratjakt
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· Score: 2, Informative
I thought it was?
Ah well, I always use it. It's part of slackware, which is all I ever needed to set up any servers.
It's pretty good. A little feature light and glitchy.
Like if you wrap text past the screen, it has a nasty habit of starting a newline, so you have to delete the newline, etc. Pain in the ass for long lines in config files.
--
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Re:Pico rules!
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
pico may not be since it's bundled with pine, but GNU Nano could be considered part of a default system running GNU... Nano has a "-w" option that would fix what you're talking about, too.
pico also has this option, I've made it a common habit to *always* pico -w (file). Also adding a +number opens pico the specified line of a file. Or, if you can use ^W then ^T to go to that line once pico is opened.
Re:Pico rules!
by
ant_slayer
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· Score: 2, Informative
Try the -w flag... "disable word-wrap".
There's mouse support too (kind of a hack though), try -m.
-Josh O-
Re:Pico rules!
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Or you can just hit Meta-W.
Re:Pico rules!
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
YOu know, it takes less than a week to become proficient in emacs/xemacs. You can buy a pocket reference for less than $8, and I guarantee you won't regret it.
IF you have to go minimalist on the editor, try joe, which is a lot better.
Careful, captain. Some of us are still using Pine.
Of course I'm not surprised by the reaction. My mother saw me sshing to my box once and said "Oh God, that brings back horrible memories..." Who says that UI has nothing to do with End User acceptance? Me personally: I love it. But to most people its like "Why do you go out hunting with a bow and arrow when we can get perfectly good meat down at the Kroger?"
Pine Users: the Ted Nugents of the Computing World!
Not even! I use pine every day also, but that's just because I like pico so much. I've hated all the Unix text-mode editors except pico, so pine was just natural for me to start using. And I guess I've stuck with it because I'm lazy.
Not a fair analogy. A better one would be "Why go out hunting with a bow and arrow when you could chase squirrels, beat them senseless with your plastic Outlook cd case, then eat their brains?"
I use pine.. i've used it continuously since about 94. Every 6-8 months I try and switch to a gui and end up switching back. The sticking features for pine for me are (1) command line interface. I like having my mail sshable from anywhere. Admittedly imap fixes this to some extent except I also like being able to easily grep through my mail as well. Pine autofolders everything into months and it makes a great way of saving everything and being able to quickly scan through old mail. What I would LOVE is a GUI mail program that is compatible with some version of a commandline program (like pine) so I can use GUI locally and commandline remotely. KMAIL is almost there but has its own weird quirks.. Xpine is vaguely pointless.
Re:First?!
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
> BSD License: The nonviral freedom to restrict > the freedoms of others
Welcome to the "idiotic signature" club.
If I take BSD-licensed code and then sell it without releasing the source, you are still *totally free* to take the original BSD-licensed code and compile it yourself. The only thing you can't do is take my new, improved version and modify it - ie, you don't get access to my changes.
NO.
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
NO.
le mot juste
by
happystink
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· Score: 2, Insightful
Evolution in motion eh Hemos? As opposed to evolution which doesn't go forward, or uhh..
--
sig:
See the "..for smart people" banners Wired runs here? Look elsewhere guys.
Re:le mot juste
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Biological evolution is change over time. It doesn't imply a direction...
Re:le mot juste
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
yeah, hemos is a stupid fuck but if he lost 30 pounds I'd gladly fuck him up the ass.
GUIs tend to get sluggish when you're using mail as IM replacement, and have a conversation with 3 of your close friends, and send one liners as response.. At least CLI is buffered, so I can keep on typing those commands to my little mutt (and vim), who can barely keep up, much better than using GUI and the mouse.. bah.. although swamping your connection with like 500 mph (mails per hour) isn't too bright.. especially with including the previous, then you get like 1MB mails.
Still nice to see the others with pine and outlook-clone biting the dust.
Pine is great, but the licence...
by
lakeland
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Pine is a great email program. Using only a console it somehow manages to be easier to use than most GUI programs. The error messages are an example of brilliant UI design.
Unfortunatly the licence is not good. While the source is available, distributing changed versions is illegal. This for example makes it illegal for Debian to fix its paths and distribute it, or for me to make a graphical version (anyone remember xpine?)
That means I've now given up on it. Fortunatly there are fairly good replacements, like mutt with pine bindings, or kmail via aalib.
Pine was nice 10 years ago, easier to figure out (for me) than elm, nicer than mail and Mail. But, well, changes take a damned long time coming, and some things (like newsgroup support) seemed to be added for "gee whiz" reasons before things that make reading large mailing lists useful (like threading).
As others have said, most everyone with patience to learn something else has moved on. Most of the people I know have moved on to mutt. And yes, someone's pointed out to me the default keybindings match elm. I guess as you grow and learn . ..
-- "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --H.L. Mencken
Any application which disables CTRL-Z by default..
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
...instantly gets rm -rf'd by me. Talk about annoying defaults - pine's full of them. Switch to mutt!
Still no S/MIME plugins. Thank you, move along
by
Stonehead
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· Score: 3, Informative
A quick search on the changelog reveals nothing improved about the years-old problems with Pine and S/MIME. It simply can't invoke plugins for GPG to check or generate messages that have the GPG signature as an attachment. Which means that 80% of the GPG-signed email that I get is useless and that Pine still does not handle the S/MIME RFC. (The other 20% is handled by patches or stopgaps.) Sigh. I know Mutt is better, but I still use Pine 4.44. I just don't trust those scripts that add Pine keybindings to Mutt..:)
Re:Still no S/MIME plugins. Thank you, move along
by
xenoweeno
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· Score: 2
I just don't trust those scripts that add Pine keybindings to Mutt..:)
First off - I love this program. I've been using it at Cornell for the last 6 years and except for not being able to have a look at those silly pictures people sometimes send me with my text terminal, I'd have it no other way.... I'll sometimes type ahead of my terminal's response by 4-5 commands, then just wait for them all to complete "at once" when the busy sun box catches up to me. It handles pine for many others and gets somewhat slow in the evenings. Damn fine email client though. (A much better way of handling mail than the IMP solution they recently came up with....)
Question: How does Pine's IMAP client implementation compare to Mutt's? Insight or experience anyone?
I've been thinking of setting up my own IMAP server.... [Offtopic] Cyrus or courier-imap server? Advantages or disadvantages of each?
I use pine for some years now. I have kept all my old email in pine folders. Recently I installed cyrus imapd at home, with SSL support. I tried using mozilla to transfer all my old email to my IMAP server, but the server would complain about the headers in the messages. Opened up pine, configured IMAP/ssl and tried moving all my old email to the IMAP server. Except for some minor problems (some messages), I moved it all. It is slow, but does the trick.
Re:IMAP in Pine
by
Simon+Lyngshede
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· Score: 3, Interesting
Pine handels one IMAP server just fine... but that's just not good enough anymore. Personally I have three imap account one three different servers, Pine doesn't not handle that well. Sure you can do it, or at leasts thats what they claim. I just gave up, it amazingly complicated to setup, just my opinion. If you just have the one IMAP server it pretty good.
Im still looking for a console mail reader that can handle multiple IMAP servers as good as Mozilla does. Any ideas ? (And no, the answer Im looking for is NOT Gnus, I hate it okay, no reason, I just dislike it in a bad way, live with it.)
How does Pine's IMAP client implementation compare to Mutt's?
Pine is IMAP. For a very long time, other clients (including mutt) just treated IMAP as a form
of POP. Pine, on the other hand, did IMAP before it
did POP. (A principle pine developer is also a principle force behind IMAP.)
I've been thinking of setting up my own IMAP server....
Look at the UW IMAP server. The chief complaint
about it is that it is be slow and a memory hog for large mail boxes. But that is only true if
you use the unix/mbox mail box format. If you use
the recommend mbx format, access is quick, you
can have multiple sessions open to the same mailbox (with this, I get around the "single view" problem of pine, by running multiple instances.
I also store my.pinerc on an IMAP server as well.)
Anyway, I'm obviously a pine fan (and was a tester for this release. I haven't yet installed 4.50, so I'm still running 4.49.9999).
-- Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
Re:IMAP in Pine
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Im still looking for a console mail reader that can handle multiple IMAP servers as good as Mozilla does. Any ideas ?
(YM `as well as Mozilla does'.) The answer is still mutt. At least, I can't think of anything wrong with the way mutt handles multiple IMAP, and even if it's not to everyone's taste, a couple of macros and keybindings will sort it out. But I've never used Mozilla Mail, so I don't know what I could be missing.
That's because IMAP was developed at UW, too. UW's IMAP server is actually 3 different RS/6000 clusters. When someone sets up an account, their mail is assigned to one particular box, and a DNS alias is created for ease of configuration. While it is true that it can get a little slow with 1000+ message folders, the same is true for any IMAP client. You're right about the mbx format, this is almost a necessity.
I hope you all like the final release, there are many user-suggested improvements.
Re:IMAP in Pine
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
``If you use the recommend mbx
format...''
Now if only the PINE developers
would get off their arrogant arses
and document/publish an open spec
for this format (instead of relying
on the age-old, "read the source")
you might see more applications
supporting this format, and thus more
people using it; for so long as the
PINE developers insist on acting out
of arrogance, you will not see the
"mbx" format (which really is better
than stock-standard Berkeley mbox)
used outside PINE/UW-IMAP setups.
Now that is a
terrible shame.
There even exists a perl script to help the transition:
pine2mutt
(disclaimer: I still use pine).
Perhaps you were joking...
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
But I do this all the time.
Very often I want to download my mail with Mozilla when I get home but I want to know if something urgent has arrived when I'm in college. So I just use 'less' on the spool.
I've been using Pine ever since I first had access to a shell account (at my school) in 1998. I don't particularily care about the license, as I don't develop in it. I don't particularily care that it doesn't handle newsgroups very well, as I rely on Google Groups for newsreading (I don't post). I could go on.
It's a simple interface, with everything documented WITHIN THE PROGRAM (main reason I don't use vi), and best of all, it comes with Pico, which I think is the most cool, kickass little text editor. Pico on my servers combined with Putty on my Win2k workstation equals easy code and script editing.
Anyway, just my two simolians.
Re:Amen!
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
pico for easy editing? bah... what's the command in pico to replace all occurances of llama between lines 692 and 922 with donkey?
oh yes, i remember the command now 'oh fuck.... delete delete delete delete delete d o n k e y' repeat for 230 lines.
as far as i'm concerned, if you can't use vi, you're not qualified to work on unix boxes, it's the lingua franca and it only takes 10 minutes to learn how to do everything that pico can do, and 20 to learn a bunch of shit that has you saying 'damn, why the hell didn't i learn this sooner?'
As far as I'm concerned, if you can't use vi, you're not qualified to work on UNIX boxes
Yeah? As far as I'm concerned, if you can't use FORTRAN-77, you're not qualified to work on UNIX boxes. Oh, and Ada. And screen. You *do* know how to use screen, right? And sendmail. God forbid that anyone be allowed to use a UNIX box without the ability to hand-code up a sendmail.cf file without any reference material.
That's about how silly the "vi" requirement comes off to me. Short of troubleshooting a system with a dead emacs (not exactly something that happens often), there's little reason to require someone to know vi. And for really nasty troubleshooting, I suspect most x86 people are more likely to use e3 than vi to avoid the libc requirement (/me remembers a dark day with a broken ld.so).
That being said, pico is a pretty frusterating editor to try using very seriously, or for anything other than mail.
Threading support
by
rsidd
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· Score: 4, Informative
is improved, but not new: it has been there in some form since at least version 4.30.
Out of pine comes pico
by
stype
·
· Score: 5, Funny
And don't forget about pico (pine composer), which has been making bad programmers worse for more years than I care to remember.
-- -Stype
Bus error -- driver executed.
Re:Out of pine comes pico
by
brer_rabbit
·
· Score: 2
what's wrong with pico? It's great for editing/etc/passwd !
Re:Out of pine comes pico
by
Kashif+Shaikh
·
· Score: 2
Pico is refuge for those students afraid of vi and emacs. Emacs requires finger-twisting multi-button action to operate, while vi requires a reboot because clueless users don't know why vi doesn't respond to any input:)
Of course, with the advent of samba, Notepad.exe is the successor of pico. Who would use Notepad to write a program, then compile it with gcc under *NIXes?
But pico's most important invention: it allows interoptability between Windows and Unices, simply because it converts all the CR/LFs to CRs.
Hmm.. small world Stype.. you're the link above me on Jenny A's "Links" page.:)
christ
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
pine sucks.. pine is not elm, and thank fucking god for that..
use elm.. use mutt.. use Mail.. hell, i'd sooner switch to exchange
Pasting to pine/pico from X selection
by
zorgon
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
I have found that copy and paste (from somewhere else, into pine/pico) using highlight/middle button in X sessions results in a tangled mess -- particularly if it's over some other text, this text is overwritten and whatnot.
Does anyone know if the new version of pine&pico has fixed this problem? I find it to be a big obstacle to useability. Merci.
--
I am quite civilized, and I should be
brought a beer immediately. -- Bruce Sterling
Re:Pasting to pine/pico from X selection
by
Vic
·
· Score: 2
I haven't used pico in a couple of years. I set up Vim to be my editor in Pine. Much, much better. YOu can format your text any way you want.
I can totally relate. I started with Elm and was forced to switch to pine many years ago when our sysadmin decided to overhaul the system to his likings. After a week or so, I got used to Pine and have been using it ever since. I haven't even tried Mutt as Pine works fine for me.
Maybe I'll give Mutt & Nano a try this weekend. Or maybe sometime around 2005. Who knows.
University of Washington not using new version yet
by
rowanxmas
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
As some of you are aware, all of the UW email servers allow you to login and use pine to read your email after seeing a screen with some other stuff and this:
E - email: Electronic mail (Pine version 4.44)
So maybe they haven't gotten around to it yet...
More Pine being worked on
by
MaverickUW
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
Well, not many people may realize it, but the UW has been working on a newer version of Pine then what was just released. Many schools have their own webmail program (UW had this really bad one for a while), but UW has been developing what it calls Webpine for a long time now accessable at webpine.washington.edu if you're a UW student (links to find out more are on the page. It works pretty well, when accessing my old UW email account, I generally log into webpine (I don't have shell access anymore so normal pine is out the window). Given time, and ways to speed the process up for those of us unfortunate enough to be on dialup (broadband isn't always the fastest for some parts of it either), and this could be really good. It's written at least partially in tcl.
That was truely a classic Tree. That was the one with several layers of mouth, so that the Tree could choose to open an angry mouth or a happy mouth. Only mascott that I know of that can display a wide range of emotions. Cal hasn't had the Axe in what, six years now?
Good point, but once you're more than 10 rows up it is pretty hard to see what is going on with his face, while the Tree's faces are visible from the entire stadium. Plus, our band could beat up your band...
aparently you haven't seen the Spirit of Troy counter march for Stanford. The band spreads out accross the entire field (at about a 3 yard grid they fill the entire field). Then the proceed to play while doing various maneuvers in perfect syncronization. The best part is that at several points during the march, everyone breaks apart, does whatever they want, runs around in circles, whatever, while still playing, and then all on the same beat they return to perfect synch again. Its really an awe-inspiring perfomance (from size, technicality, etc.) and really puts to shame the signature-chaos of Stanford's band.
Ditch pine for what? What would you recommend people switch to?
Mutt? Elm?
I don't need a graphical MUA that takes up half my screen, doesn't allow me to use vi to compose, makes me take my hand off the keyboard to mouse-click around, AND isn't usable over a telnet/ssh session.
I used to be a loyal PINE user. I was never really happy with the PICO editor and found that using PINE with PGP or GPG was awkward. However, I hacked up my.pinerc quite a bit and got the thing working the way I liked it to (like using vi as my editor).
Then, I tried mutt. After a few minutes I was hooked. I now use mutt for all of my mail. I think its ability to seamlessly integrate with GPG was the biggest factor in convincing me to switch.
Why I still use pine...
by
Tester
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
Yes I admit it, I still use pine even if its not free software. Why? Its to my knownledge the only email client that supports remote imap properly. By that I mean one that doesnt try to re-download the whole list of all messages in the folder like mutt (Very usefull with huge folders). Evolution would probably do the job as it keeps a local copy. But it was way to unstable the last time I tried it. And I need something that I can use over the network.
Any mutt user can tell me if mutt now supports imap properly? And don't tell me gnus is the solution, even if I'm starting to consider it...
Its to my knownledge the only email client that supports remote imap properly. By that I mean one that doesnt try to re-download the whole list of all messages in the folder like mutt (Very usefull with huge folders).
Outlook Express does this just fine.
I still use Pine exclusively
by
ZorinLynx
·
· Score: 1
When it comes to handling mail, I've found Pine to be the fastest, slickest mail program around. I don't like GUI mail clients as I don't feel I should have to click a mouse to read my mail. I can also run Pine over an ssh connection.
For me at least, it's the only mailreader in existence. Maybe someday I'll try mutt.
SSH for mail is a hack.
by
Inoshiro
·
· Score: 0, Flamebait
"The one big reason is that I can SSH to my box from anywhere and get my mail."
Which is such an ugly hack, compared to IMAP over SSL. IMAP exists. Non-shitty clients exist (Mozilla). Use it!
-- -- Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Re:SSH for mail is a hack.
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Well, I ssh into my box and then Mozilla to get my mail. That is more secure than any other method.
Re:SSH for mail is a hack.
by
BusDriver
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
Why is it an ugly hack?
It's secure. It's quick and easy.
I'm at an internet cafe right now. It's much easier and fast for me to download putty and ssh to my box than to wait for 20 minutes for mozilla to download, then for me to install it and to set it up etc. Then I have to remember to uninstall it when I leave the cafe, so that others don't get my info/headers that may get left behind.
Not to mention it leaves another port open on my box for the world to see. I'd much rather just have port 22 open.
I agree with your comment, imap over ssl is nice, but it's not always easy or quick. I also can't see why you'd call it an ugly hack?
Tim
Re:SSH for mail is a hack.
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
wtf are you talking about? I think he means login (ssh) to his box, then use mutt to read his mail.
Re:SSH for mail is a hack.
by
JebusIsLord
·
· Score: 2
I havent tried it yet, but IMAP and POP over SSH are even available in Outlook XP.
-- Jeremy
Re:SSH for mail is a hack.
by
Inoshiro
·
· Score: 2
You probably mean over SSL or over an SSH forwarded port (which looks exactly the same as a normal local listener port to the client).
-- -- Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Re:SSH for mail is a hack.
by
JebusIsLord
·
· Score: 2
my bad, i meant SSL or course.
-- Jeremy
Fix it yourself (was Re:Does it..)
by
CoolVibe
·
· Score: 4, Informative
In your login script do:
stty sane
stty erase ^H
stty erase ^\?
It's not a bug in pine, it's a bug in your termcap database.
Re:Fix it yourself (was Re:Does it..)
by
Alomex
·
· Score: 1, Troll
Fix it yourself
That is a surprise. A linux fanatic blaming yet another *nix idiocy on the user. Then they run stories wondering why people are still using Windows instead of Linux. Gee, I wonder why....
It's not a bug in pine, it's a bug in your termcap database.
Interesting as no other program has that problem....
Re:Fix it yourself (was Re:Does it..)
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Score -1: Criticizes Unix
Re:Fix it yourself (was Re:Does it..)
by
CoolVibe
·
· Score: 0, Flamebait
That is a surprise. A linux fanatic..... [snip]
[rant]
You assume too quickly, grasshopper. I am infact very platform agnostic. All operating systems suck, the unix-like seem to suck less (with the exception of AIX, which does really suck harder than anything I've come across). This stty buissness is in fact SUS (Single UNIX Specification). Not just Linux, mind you. I myself infact am more something of a FreeBSD fanatic, instead of a Linux one.
And I wasn't calling the grandparent an idiot. Let alone that I was blaming anything/anyone other than the broken scripts that created his termcap database for him. (Or if he did make them himself, well, then it's his own fault of course:)
No wonder people are flocking to UNIX. It's idiots like you that are talking out of their collective asses all the time. Especially when the only thing they do is bitch when someone offers informative advice.
Also, a very big peeve of mine is when people see something unixish and _instantly_ assume that it's linux. Those login script entries work just as well under (takes deep breath) FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Solaris, HPUX, AIX (yes even that one),. UNICOS, Cygwin, IRIX, Xenix, BeOS, Mac OS X, True64 and Digital UNIX, to name but a few.
There end of rant. Move along, nothing to see here...
Re:Fix it yourself (was Re:Does it..)
by
0x0d0a
·
· Score: 2
Um...he didn't blame it on you. He said that the bug was in termcap (more UNIXish than pine, which at least also exists on Windows). He's also correct -- the termcap was incorrect. And while I suppose the topic was somewhat incindiary, he just gave you some free tech support. Chill out.
You run
ssty erase ^H
and you'll fix it.
The reason that only pine demonstrates the problem is that a lot of pieces of software simply take ^H and ^? and treat them both as backspace (bash, for instance, does this). If you want another piece of software that will demonstrate this problem, try running less on a file, typing slash to search, and then entering a search string. Any backspaces you hit while typing your query will spew "^H"s.
Re:Fix it yourself (was Re:Does it..)
by
Alomex
·
· Score: 2
It don't work custard. I've done some research on this problem in the past, and it is a pine specific implementation problem.
Re:Fix it yourself (was Re:Does it..)
by
Alomex
·
· Score: 2
You run ssty erase ^H and you'll fix it.
Nope. Is quite a bit more complex than that, and it is a pine specific problem according to several web sites out there. less does not show this behavior, with or without the "fix".
If they have the IMAP stuff turned on for Exchange 2k, you can run Pine as an IMAP client against Exchange. I do this when I'm suspicous about a mail message and don't trust Outlook.
It's kind of amusing to do it, and more functional than using lynx with Outlook Web Access..
Re:Use PINE with Exchange!
by
Sparks23
·
· Score: 1
This is actually what I do at work. It's allowed me, periodically, to laugh when people at work get bitten by Outlook virii and I'm reading my work-email over PINE.
Of course, there's the downside that I don't get to use the meeting-scheduling interfaces, but still.:)
Of course, there's the downside that I don't get to use the meeting-scheduling interfaces
I've long wondered why the IMAP protocol hasn't been extended to allow for meeting-scheduling and calendaring functionality to be built into any IMAP client.
Most of it would be to support real-time busy search, but the rest of it could just be storing calendar items as ordinary messages in a standardized format that could be parsed by the client and displayed any way the client app deems approrpriate.
This would really cool, as it would allow any IMAP client that supported "IMAP calendaring extensions" to be able to get pretty much full calendaring functionality out of any IMAP server that supported them as well; pretty much any server could then have complete calendaring abilities.
It would also break the "but we need calendaring" stranglehold that Exchange has on messaging.
The big missing element would be multi-server busy search; you'd have to have a way for IMAP servers to communicate with each other. You'd also need a decent LDAP directory, but that would be icing and not totally necessary for functionality.
It amazes me...
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
That posts like this continue to be made by anyone. I mean really...why? Let go of the past, ditch your user account.
And go away.
Nano, the GPL Pico clone.
by
fr2asbury
·
· Score: 1
But I think the best reason to love Pine has to be... PICO!
If you like Pico, AND like the GNU and GPL stuff, I'd suggest trying out Nano. Now I admit I'm no Pico master, so if there's stuff missing I don't know because for what I use Pico for, Nano emulates perfectly.
Re:Nano, the GPL Pico clone.
by
z84976
·
· Score: 2
Heheh actually, now that you mention it, I HAVE replaced pico with nano on the machines I most often use that stuff with (webserver, etc). Search/Replace was a godsend.
Re:Nano, the GPL Pico clone.
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
The only problem with nano is that I've grown so accustomed to typing 'pico' when I need to edit something.
Re:Nano, the GPL Pico clone.
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
sudo ln -s/path/to/nano/usr/bin/pico
Re:Nano, the GPL Pico clone.
by
decaying
·
· Score: 2
:1,$s/search/replace/g
Not that hard...
-- -----
One piece short of Legoland
Re:Nano, the GPL Pico clone.
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
How about 8th bit characters such as the
ISO-Latin group of accented chars? How about a Unicode encoding? It sucks having to use vim for these in a file that you then have to read in to a pico/pine session. (I've not used nano - does it do better than pico in this regard?)
spam filters in PINE: how to add them :)
by
timothy
·
· Score: 5, Informative
I've been using PINE for a long time; this does not make me a power user of PINE so much as someone who has eventually had a very few useful bits of information blasted at me enough to have left a small groove in my brain like a flatworm. (Right animal I'm thinking of?) Here's one thing that I hope you find useful: how to use PINE's filters.
Many people, in fact, don't realize that PINE has a very nice filter system. Yes, there *is* a fine manual for pine, but not that many pithy HOWTOs. Or maybe there are -- google searches eventually brought this information to light for me, and I'm just paraphrasing it here for your convenience:)
So. Let's say you use pine, and want to stop, interrogate and file away from your sensitive eyeballs all email that contains the giveaway snippet "this email cannot be considered spam". Here's a step-by-step guide -- it's only this long to provide assurance; once you start the process, you can probably ignore my steps and simply follow the on-screen prompts.
1) fire up pine if it's not already running.
2) Hit "M" if you're not at the Main screen. My PINE session is setup to take me straight to my inbox, but yours may already bring you right to your main screen, but at any rate hitting M can't hurt:)
3) (OK, this is really three steps in one) Hit "S" for Setup; Hit "R" for Rules; Hit "F" for Filter, because that's the type of Rule you want to add.
6) The screen you're now looking at is a bit intimidating, but it's really like a gruff pal who is actually friendly once you're past his exterior. Highlighted already is a line that says "No Value Set: using "Filter Rule": at this point, hit return and give your filter an appropriate name. I usually say something like "[keyword description] [(reason)]" -- in this case, I'd make it "this email cannot be considered spam (spam)." From here on out, use your arrow keys or tab around to fill in the relevant information.
7) Let's do this example section by section. In the top section, the one headed by the line "CURRENT FOLDER CONDITIONS BEGIN HERE," you most likely will not have to do anything; the default is probably to make the filter affect your inbox, which is what I (and I'm guessing most people) usually want.
8) Next section, "FILTERED MESSAGE CONDITIONS BEGIN HERE," that is, looks more complicated than it is. You can ignore the fields you don't care about by just leaving them blank. If you were trying to block all messages from "stalker99@aol.com," you would put that address in the field labeled "From pattern." In our present example, go down to the field "AllText pattern," hit return to give yourself an input field, and type in (or paste in) "this email cannot be considered spam". In fact, "cannot be considered spam" by itself might be even smarter. I avoid punctuation in my spam filters; you want matches, and shorter phrases give more matches.
9) Almost done:) Scroll down, ignoring a few sections, to the section "ACTIONS BEGIN HERE" and the subsection "Filter action =" Go down to the line "Folder List = " and hit return (again, this is the way you get a text entry field). Type in the name of a folder to which you would like the dreck blasted; "spam" is what I call mine. If the folder does not yet exist, PINE will prompt you and ask if you want to create it; this is a useful catch in case you accidentally try to filter it to "span" instead.
10) Hit "E" to "Exit Setup." When PINE asks "Commit changes ("Yes" replaces settings, "No" abandons changes)? " hit Y for Yes. You now have a filter in place!:) If it corresponds to a piece of spam currently in your inbox, you should see a message like "moving one filtered message to "spam.""
11) Return to you inbox; "M" for Main and "I" for inbox should do it. If your filter was well applied, you should be down one spam:)
Note: you can set up filters on ingoing mail for your friends as well as the jerks of the world; you can filter all mail from your old buddies to a folder "pals," and mail from coworkers to "job_mail," etc, by using the "From pattern" field rather than the AllText pattern, for instance.
Then, to read your sorted email, look in the folders you have created, because the incoming messages will be sorted into them. i.e., if you create a "friends" folder, you must open that folder to see the mail which has been sorted into it.
This is a very incomplete look at PINE's filters, but I hope it is useful to you. If you explore the options available on the filter creation page, for instance, you can see that you can also sent junk mail straight to the toilet by deleting it unread; this has resulted in some false positives for me, so I try not to do this any more.
another vote for pine!
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
I've been using pine since I found out about it when I entered college (well, after using mail for a week...). I've tried Eudora and Netscape 4.76, but didn't find that the GUI added anything. Since I want to access my email from several different places (dorm, home, school, office, public-access library computers), something like Pine is the only way to keep my email accessible and not leave my settings on the computer I am using. (even webmail will leave your email in the browser's cache...)
As long as I have access to a shell account, I can't see not using pine.
I'd love to say I'm number 2 or 3, but if you've actually read the posts on this topic you'd know it's a hell of a lot more than 3.
__
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings." Philip Marlow
-- "Fear is the rootkit of democracy.." Blarkon
Mods on crack again
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Troll? Damn Mods on crack yet again.....
Elm is dead (and yes, Pine is EVIL)
by
Ineffable+27
·
· Score: 1
Elm was not y2k-compliant, so it was 'end-of-lifed' before 2000. If I recall correctly, the Elm development team officially recommended Mutt to their users.
I always hated Pine. A few good features, but missing many more, and it had a bad, awkward interface. Going through and changing the default settings helped a lot, but not enough. I always used Elm, and then Mutt. (Oh, and Eudora for GUI.)
-- "He'd be a broader guy if he had dropped acid once." - Steve Jobs on Bill Gates
Re:Elm is dead (and yes, Pine is EVIL)
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Actually, there were a couple of Elm releases/updates in 2000 and later that included fixes for some of the Y2K problems.
Re:University of Washington not using new version
by
dw5000
·
· Score: 1
It's more that C&C (the computing services people at UDub) takes its time deploying new software to the campus. Netscape 4.x was the browser of choice in the UWEBD package (the connectivity CD they sell to fac/staff/stu that defines the current recommended "benchmarks") until this fall when Mozilla took over.
Remember that UDub is still in session as well. If they upgrade Pine, it'll be over one of the quarter breaks.
I've found Mozilla more universal.
by
Inoshiro
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Than something like an SSH client.
At the local university and work, the more IMAP client connects the same as my IMAP clients at home do to my mail spool. I consider it a hack to do it via SSH, since SSH was designed for interactive login sessions. In many cases, most of the people for whom I provide email do not have an actual UNIX account on my system. That is why it is a hack: it requires extra accounts and other potentially dangerous settings (like allowing logins via password, instead of private key) to allow remote SSH use from anywhere. I'd much rather people trashed the live copy of my mail spool than my home dir, since it's a lot easier to backup and restore my mail spool.
-- -- Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Re:I've found Mozilla more universal.
by
digitalsushi
·
· Score: 2
But using PINE over an ssh connection IS interactive. I've used PINE since '97- I was a junior in high school working at the local ISP. Never looked at another client since. You can configure SSH to disallow passwords. The plain text-ness of PINE means I get to avoid sneaky formatting spams, avoiding lewd spam porn, and I never stop once to worry about viruses. I don't want for my mail to download. It's not a hack- an account is an account- whether you leave your system wide open or not is up to you. Heck, make their shell PINE- globally disallow subshells and all that mess- blah. Whatever..
-- slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
Re:I've found Mozilla more universal.
by
BusDriver
·
· Score: 1
Some good points.
I guess it comes down to what exactly you're trying to do. I have my own machine just for me, so it's not a problem for me. But yes, for a whole bunch of users I can see why you might want to nail them down to mail only via a ssl imap connection.
I still disagree it's a hack though:)
Tim
Re:I've found Mozilla more universal.
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
You say you've found Mozilla more useful than ssh?
More useful than S S H?
One is a web browser and mail client, the other is a shell from which you can run any program.
Are you completely and utterly stark raving mad? Take yourself to the nearest lunatic asylum and book yourself a season ticket. While you're at it, give your computer to somebody who might actually use it.
Nelson: Ha-Hah
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Nelson: Ha-Hah (kicks you in stomach, after knocking you to the ground with punch to the face)
You seem to be the moron, he caught his mistake long before you posted your reply...
Although you did make me laugh with that whole he's not a troll, he's a moron thing....
Doesn't support Maildir?
by
TomatoMan
·
· Score: 2
I'm running the plain 4.44 RPM from Red Hat 7.3, and only run an IMAP server on my machine. Pine works fine.
1. In [S]setup/[C]onfig, set inbox-path to "{yourimapserver.com}INBOX"
2. In/etc/pine.conf, set inbox-path to "Maildir"
Maybe I don't understand the problem you're having, but pine works fine for me with Maildir. Love it.
Pine supports IMAP, and I guess your IMAP server supports Maildir. Stock pine does not support Maildir format mailboxes directly (i.e. without using an IMAP server).
Re:Doesn't support Maildir?
by
TomatoMan
·
· Score: 2
Ah, I see. Right, I do have to log in to the imap server with Pine from the same box.
Pine insists on sending all of your information out in your email even if you are using a different role. You cannot change this with any option setting. The only way is to patch the source and recompile;-( This is the kind of behavior you won't see in most GNU/Linux programs (which protect the user's privacy by default).
Re:Privacy issues with Pine
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Anyone know if the 4.44 privacy patch applies cleanly to 4.50?
Small?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Have you seen the size of the binary? ~6MB for me!
MOD UP!!!
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Finally, lynx is worthwhile!!!
Like watching paint dry.
by
CanadaDave
·
· Score: 2
"watching it change is like watching evolution in motion"
..or you mean like watching paint dry. When will they finally get with the program and make PINE graphical? Like, you know, give it a GUI?
Re:Like watching paint dry.
by
Quill_28
·
· Score: 2
Yeah that would great, I love throwing X windows over my connection at work from home, the guys are always so happy to open the ports. And my firewall never has a problem with X-Windows. Maybe they don't want it to be graphical. Thought of that? There are lots of GUI's out there use one of them.
Re:Like watching paint dry.
by
CanadaDave
·
· Score: 2
No way! I'm going to use Lynx and Pine as long as I can. By the way, all joking aside, Tight VNC is actually quite nice if you have a good connection on both ends...compared to X that is.
Re:Like watching paint dry.
by
0x0d0a
·
· Score: 2
What would the point be of putting a GUI on it? It's well evolved to the text-based paradigm. I can't see much advantage added by moving to a GUI. I can resize my window and have the thing auto-resize already. If you really want to, you can enable mouse support. What would the point of going GUI be?
modern e-mail functionality?! I mean, how am I supposed to use an e-mail client that won't respond to Active Virus commands that send copies of itself to everyone in my address book? PINE is just No Fun!
Attachments?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
How the hell are you supposed to view attachements with Pine then smartasses?
Although this year they have introduced a very broken web-mail app previously the official line was "All e-mails are locally accessible only!" This was mitigated by the fact that the UNIX boxen all came with pine. SSH to uni server.
[d?????@altair]$ pine
Instant, fast (well I was the wrong end of 56K) and globally available.
While others are posting about the relative merits of mutt / elm / mh / grep! etc, I think that its good that text based MUA's are still being developed.
I am currently taking a Win32 program with GUI and rewriting to make it run as a Solaris text based prog. This is to allow it to be run over SSH sessions. It has to run on a uni machine, and by allowing it to run text-mode it can be called up from home, without having to trek back to campus.
Text mode apps have their uses. Long live PINE!
an idle thought re: licensing
by
timothy
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
Since the biggest objection I can see to PINE is the licensing (and since it's already installed on the system which receives my email, it's not something which bothers me, even, and I stress *even* if it otherwise would), I wonder why UWashington does not give in and dual-license it.
Even a one-time release of a particular code snapshot under the GPL or BSD or [insert license] (with no intention of coordinating any further development of that branch) would / should satisfy most of the complainers:)
This is just an off-the-cuff thought, but... why not?
Re:Does it.. (it does)
by
Alan_Smithee
·
· Score: 1
> Can it understand more than one local sender > address as not to be included in the reply set?
It has for awhile. Look in the configuration for 'alt-addresses'. You tell it which addresses to consider 'you'. It won't ask you to include yourself in your reply anymore, and it'll put a '+' in your index screen next to any messages 'To:' any of those addresses.
Regarding threading, how do you set up gnus email if you're not an experienced programmer but do have gnus newsgroups running in emacs?...
Most explanations have been too complicated for novices to set up gnus email.
oo__ dsaklad@gnu.org
Pine rocks for old men like me
by
remax
·
· Score: 1
I'm 44 years old, and a *NIX geek. I use pine *100%* for all of my e-mail. Always have, always will. Send it to me in plain text, or I'm not reading it. html e-mail is a MS$ created virus infested, script kiddie gold mine way of communicating for windoze users. Let them have fun with their Exchange/Outlook expereience.
Re:Pine rocks for old men like me
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Thanks dude. I looked around the place where you enter the main address in the config, and couldn't find any likely candidate for secondary address nearbt... Even if I had seen the "alt-field" at the end, I don't think I would have clued in that this was what I was looking for.
I have tried them all (mail readers) and I always find myself going back to pine. I keep a USB keychain drive with me that has a nice SSH client for every OS I may run across -- and I can get to my mail from anywhere. (and on a slow connection -- this is much better than those "heavy html" based mail reader "emulators" that you kids are using these days...)
-- (+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
*shock* My girlfriend likes Pine!
by
10Ghz
·
· Score: 2
She used Pine over Telnet in her university and learned to like it. One day I was putting together a new home-computer for her family (Windows, Outlook Express, the basic stuff). As I was configuring Outlook for her she commented "Outlook... blah! I hate it! Give me my Pine and Telnet back!". I asked her that is she serious, and she was!
At that moment, I came really close of asking her to marry me.
-- Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
-- "In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people." --Linus Torvalds
Bye bye mutt
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
After seeing pine getting threading support,
I thought it is now high time to switch back to pine.
Yes. I can be influenced easily. I can admit it. I made a mistake by following other people's advice.
I was swept away by the trend which was mutt, fetchmail and procmail configurations pimped by
many a geek. I tell you why the configuration sucks.
it is difficult to setup
fetchmail SUCKS at IMAP and mutt SUCKS even more at it. IMAP is the way to check my inbox
SCREW list traffic. It sucks. It really sucks when you use mutt and IMAP alone. Pine does a much better job of this with its own inbuilt filters. However,
I admit, I am using slrn and newsgroups more...
The good thing about PuTTY is that the downloable.EXE is the entire program. There's no installer and thus the application can be run from even the most locked down of machines with little difficulty.
I actually spent a year studying at a uni in germany. They had so locked down windows boxes I couldn't even get putty or mirc running. Only approved(tm) programs there. That was actually the biggest reason I shelled out for a laptop.
Kjella
-- Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Ya think that by v4.5, someone by now would have made an add-on so that pine can handle S/MIME certs, but nope... and this "feature" has been on the books since at least 1997.
-- SELECT * FROM USERS WHERE A_WINNER = "YUO";
They still got threading wrong..
by
hacker
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
The stock threading in Pine 4.50 is STILL wrong, but the patch I've been running here for over a year works perfectly (in fact, my name is actually in the patch itself for a similar bug). Let me explain:
When you want to sort your mail, so the newest messages arrive at the top (normal for anyone who reads a LOT of mail), you set Pine to sort by "Reverse Arrival". Using the patch, I hit 'k', and now I expose threads, but ONLY the first message of the thread is sorted in reverse-arrival mode (as it should be). All replies to that thread are shown consecutively underneath it in normal arrival mode (replace dots for spaces, Slashdot strips them):
Nov 22...Message 1
Nov 22...Message 2
Nov 18...Message 3
Nov 19...+---Re: Message 3 (repl 1)
Nov 20.......+---Re: Message 3 (repl 2)
Nov 22...........+---Re: Message 3 (repl 3)
Nov 15...Message 4
With the threading in the new Pine 4.5, without using the threading patch (which was written by wash.edu, btw), you get:
Nov 22...Message 1
Nov 22...Message 2
Nov 22...........+---Re: Message 3 (repl 3)
Nov 20.......+---Re: Message 3 (repl 2)
Nov 19...+---Re: Message 3 (repl 1)
Nov 18...Message 3
Nov 15...Message 4
And there's no way to stop it. Sorting by Reverse-Arrival hides threads.
Sorting by Threads sorts upside-down (as above).
Sorting by Reverse-Threads puts new messages at the bottom.
I've been a happy user of Pine for 10 years (or however long it has been out), but I can't upgrade to this when such a core function is non-working like this (incidentally, don't tell me to try mutt, I've tried mutt, and it can't even come remotely close in features to what last-year's pine can do, not to mention the exploitable holes with mutt's file browser).
I guess I'll report this again, and hope that Eduardo can come up with a quick patch to fix it.
Distribution of modified binaries _is_ illegal.
by
psgalbraith
·
· Score: 1
Not entirely.
What do you mean, not entirely? Either it's illegal or it's not. There's no middle ground.
The current license says you can't distribute modified versions of pine binaries.
It pissed me off because the controlling group within Debian didn't want to work out a deal with UW to allow Pine to be distributed as a normal package within Debian.
You mean a packaged binary instead of an installer? I don't think anyone would stop you.
But what's wrong with the current setup:
# apt-get --only-source build-dep pine
# apt-get --only-source -b source pine
?
Also, the new version 4.50 hit Debian's incoming already...
"Yacc" owes much to a most stimulating collection of users, who have goaded me beyond my inclination, and frequently beyond my ability in their endless search for "one more feature." Their irritating unwillingness to learn how to do things my way has usually led to my doing things their way; most of the time, they have been right.
-- S. C. Johnson, "Yacc guide acknowledgements"
- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...
Slashdot Mirror
Something forms itself from the silent void of the empty mailing lists and the noisy chaos of the crowded mailing lists. It shapes and protects us, it entertains and challenges us, it aids us in our journey through the ether world of software. It is mysterious; it is at once source code and yet object code. I do not know the name, thus I will call it the Tao of Linux.
If the Tao is great, then the box is stable. If the box is stable, then the server is secure. If the server is secure, then the data is safe. If the data is safe, then the users are happy.
In the beginning there was chaos in Unix.
Tanenbaum gave birth to MINIX. MINIX did not have the Tao.
MINIX gave birth to Linux 0.1 and it had promise.
Linux gave birth to v1.3 and it was good.
v1.3 gave birth to v2.0 and it was better.
Linux has evolved greatly from its distant cousins of the old. Linux is embodied by the Tao.
The wise user is told about the Tao and contributes to it. The average user is told about the Tao and compiles it. The foolish user is told about the Tao and laughs and asks who needs it.
If it were not for laughter, there would be no Tao.
Wisdom leads to good code, but experience leads to good use of that code.
The master Cox once dreamed that he was a Kernel. When he awoke he exclaimed: "I don't know whether I am Cox dreaming that I am a Kernel, or a Kernel dreaming that I am Cox!"
The master Linus then said: "The Tao envelopes you. You shall create great code for Linux."
"On the contrary," said Cox, "The Tao has already created the code, I will only have to find it and write it down."
A master was explaining the nature of the Tao to one of his students:
"Is the Tao in the VM subsystem?" he asked. "Yes," replied the master.
"Is the Tao in the scheduler?" he queried again. "The Tao is in the scheduler."
"Is the Tao even in the modules?". "It is even in the modules," said the master.
"Is the Tao in the Low-Latency Patch?"
The master frowned and was silent for much time.
"You fail to understand the Tao. Go away."
The Tao is the yin and the yang. It is the good and the evil, it is everything and yet it is nothing, it is the beginning and the end.
The Tao was there at the kernel compile, and it will be there when the kernel panics.
A novice user once asked a master: "Why compile in C when C++ is more popular?"
"Why a monolythic kernel when Mach is more popular?"
"And why use ReiserFS when ext2 is more popular?"
The master sighed and replied: "Why run Unix when NT is more popular?"
The user was enlightened.
A frustrated user once asked a master: "My kernel has panicked, should I post to lkml?"
"No," replied the master, "You will only bother the Tao."
"Should I rm -rf?"
"No, you will have wasted the Tao's time."
"Well should I search the web?"
"You will search for all eternity," said the master.
"Perhaps I should try FreeBSD?"
"Then you will have disgraced the Tao."
"I suppose I could try gdb," said the user.
The master smiled and replied: "Then you will have made the Tao stronger."
A stubborn user once told a master: "I run version 2.2. I always have, and I always will."
The master replied: "You are foolish and do not understand the Tao. The Tao is dynamic and ever changing. Linux strives for the perfection that is the Tao. It flows from version to version with peace."
"So my Linux does not have the Tao, so what?" said the foolish user. "Oh your Linux is of the Tao," said the master. "However, the Tao of Linux follows the Tao of the C library. One day the C library will change, and your Linux will be left behind." The user was silent.
An angry user once yelled at a master:
"My Linux has panicked! What lousy software it is, I hate it so!"
"You are insulting the Tao," said the master. "The Tao is everywhere bringing order to hundreds of networks, aiding thousands of users, and fighting that of which we call the 'lame.' Do not disrespect the Tao; however, the Tao will forgive you."
"I apologize," said the user, "And I will be more forgiving the next time the Tao fails me."
"The Tao has not failed you, it is you that has failed the Tao," said the master. "The Tao is perfect."
The Tao decides if a kernel shall compile, or if it shall abort.
The Tao decides if a kernel shall boot, or if it shall freeze.
The Tao decides if a kernel shall run, or if it shall panic.
But, the Tao does not decide if a box will have no hardware failures. That is a mystery to everyone.
A young master once approached an old master: "I have a LUG for Linux help. But, I fail to answer my students' problems; they are above me."
The master replied: "Have you taught them of the Tao?" he asked. "How it brings together man and software, yet how it distances them apart; how if flows throughout Linux and transcends its essence?"
"No," exclaimed the apprentice, "These people cannot even get the source untarred."
"Oh, said the master, "In that case, tell them to RTFM."
A master watched as an ambitious user reconstructed his Linux.
"I shall make every bit encrypted," the user said. "I shall use 2048 bit keys, three different algorithms, and make multiple passes."
The master replied: "I think it is unwise."
"Why?" asked the user. "Will my encryption harm the mighty Tao, which gives Linux life and creates the balance between kernel and processes? The mighty Tao, which is the thread that binds the modules and links them with the core? The mighty Tao, which safely guides the TCP/IP packets to and from the network card?"
"No," said the master, "It will hog too much cpu."
The core is like the part of the mind that is static. It is programmed at a child's creation and cannot be changed unless a new child is made; unless a new kernel is compiled.
The modules are like the part of the mind that is dynamic. It is reprogrammed every time one learns new knowledge; every time one learns better code.
One is yin, the other yang. Each is nothing without the other.
A novice came to lkml and inquired to all the masters there: "I wish to become a master. Must I memorize the Linux header files?"
"No," replied a master.
"Must I submit code to Bitkeeper?"
"No," replied the master.
"Must I meditate daily and dedicate my life to Linux?"
"No," replied the master again.
"Must I go on a quest to ponder the meaning of the Tao?"
"No. A master is nothing more than a student who knows something of which he can teach to other students."
The novice understood.
And thus said the master:
"It is the way of the Tao."
A user came to a master who had great status in lkml. The user asked the master: "Which is easier: implementing new features to the kernel or documenting them?"
"Implementing new features," replied the master.
The confused user then exclaimed:
"Surely it is easier to write a few sentences in the man page than it is to write pages of code without error?"
"Not so," said the master. "When coding, the Tao of Linux opens my eyes wide and allows me to see beyond the code, to let the source flow from my fingers, to implement without flaw. When documenting, however, all I have to work with is a C in high school English."
He who compiles from the stable tree is stubborn
and unwilling to change, but is guaranteed reliability.
He who compiles from the current tree is wise but perhaps too conformist, but is guaranteed steadiness.
He who compiles from the unstable tree is adventurous and is guaranteed new innovations: some good, some bad.
He who compiles straight from Bitkeeper is brave but guaranteed turbulence.
They are all of the Tao. One shall respect the old, and debug the new; none shall argue over which is greatest.
There once was a user who scripted in Perl: "Look at what I have to work with here," he said to a master of core, "My code is interpreted dynamically, the syntax is unique and simple, I have sockets, strings, arrays, and everything I could ever need. Why don't you stop meddling in C and come join me?"
The C programmer described his reasoning to the scripter: "Script is to C as ebonics is to Latin. If the scripter does not grow beyond that of which he scripts, he will surely [die]. Besides, without C, how can there be script?"
The scripter was enlightened, and the two became close friends.
My school added an "amazing new webmail feature" this year, but I really wasn't that impressed with it. The sad thing is that they probably paid some company for the webmail app, even though you can download several different ones at freshmeat.net for free.
;-)
Anyway, the point is that PINE is still used today even though many consider it antiquated. For people like myself who know all the shortcuts and don't mind an all-text interface, it's superb.
So, PINE is certainly not dead, and many of us still use it on occasion when away from the office. It's much faster than VNCing into your home box and using Outlook.
When you're on the go, give PINE a call
If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
Hasn't MUTT done that for years. And java to (bah ha im so funny)
Hum, not quite yet. But, it is definitely catching up.
Pine Is Not Elm? wtf?
Bah... /usr/ucb/Mail rules!
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Well, maybe not, but seriously, distributing modified binaries of pine is illegal, which really cramps my style ;-). There are other mail readers I would reccomened over pine, namely mutt, or elm, spruce, sylpheed, or balsa, all of which are Free as in speech.
But I think the best reason to love Pine has to be... PICO! Yes! Yes! Flame me! I use PICO!!!
Long Live Pine! I use it everyday, and it is good to see it evolving. Remember the days of unix apps like Pine and Lynx, and that was the only way to do your work on the Internet? Oh wait, these are still those days...
DISCLAIMER:
I don't believe what I write, and neither should you.
SECURITY NOTE: The pine software has had several remote vulnerabilities discovered in the past, which allowed remote attackers to execute arbitrary code as you on your local system, by the action of sending a specially-prepared email. All such KNOWN problems have been fixed, but the pine code is written in a very insecure style and the FreeBSD Security Officer believes there are likely to be other undiscovered vulnerabilities. Do you wish to proceed with the installation of pine anyway?
Does the new version address any of the issues that lead to this message appearing?
Even Jesus hates listening to Creed.
Screenshot of PINE in action.
If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
I'm still a loyal pine user, having cut my teeth first with "mail". What I've noticed, however, is that just about everyone I know who was a happy pine user is now a happy mutt user. I'm only a holdout on switching because I haven't really investigated the differences (if it ain't broke...), but my sense is that by popular majority among CLI mail readers I know, mutt is where you go to get "better-than-pine".
- DDT
So long, michael. Don't let the door hit you...
Aaargh... why oh why did they have to add the threading support? Looks like pine starts to be usable.. (It's about time, the version is already 4.50...) And that means less mutt users :(( Mutt is the one and only _real_ mail client! Hypnotoad uses mutt! All hail the hypnotoad!
But honestly what I really am looking for requires only very little development work. It spells "GPL". Please?
- El riesgo siempre vive - Private J. Vasquez
Pine is a really nice mail app, for sure. But I still think it has one of the quirkiest licenses of any source-available application out there. It specifically forbids development and support of branches of the codebase -- if I add a cool new feature that the maintainers refuse to add (web browsing, maybe), then I can't split off and make "Joe's Pine," I have to distribute a diff file with the original source tarball.
Good for them. I myself just released 2.10, for a can of pop and bag of chips. That comes on the heels of a 1.30 release, into a parking meter.
I stopped using pine as my mail client (about three years
i was using it) for three reasons:
1. Doesn't support Maildir in the main code, only thru third-party patches, and pine guys rejects to add Maildir
support to the code, and nobody can do it and publish it,
because of their license.
2. Is not GPL
3. Mutt is waaaaay more configurable
Get your brand new green PINE tree in time to decorate for christmas! You could mod it with all blue lights... imagine a beowulf cluster of christmas trees! Merry Christmas to all!
Seriously though, threads help a ton in organizing messages.
Just because I doubt myself does not mean I find your position compelling.
In other news, pine would have done this years ago had it truly been free software. Since they don't allow people to distribute modified versions, and they don't like to accept featere enhancements nobody does any work on it. For that reason, everybody with the patience to look for and learn something better has moved on to other text based mail clients.
That's because they chose the wrong implementation. At our LUG, we use Horde/Imp, and are really satisfied with it!
quote:
watching it change is like watching evolution in motion
this is a bad pun, or a bad joke, or a funny mistake
Did they fix the Ctrl-H Backspace bug?
Can it understand more than one local sender address as not to be included in the reply set?
Have you ever read the project history linked above: " Our goal was to provide a mailer that naive users could use without fear of making mistakes. We wanted to cater to users who were less interested in learning the mechanics of using electronic mail than in doing their jobs; users who perhaps had some computer anxiety". I think they have succeeded well, even now when everyone is used to having all the graphical bells and whistles my Mom - who had never used email before, learned pine quicker than outlook (she never learnt to use it, actually).
Pine was my first e-mail app too. But a single view of those old text menus (and memories of mails lost/rewritten) would send me running to the nearest GUI-driven mail program I could find.
Use only as needed (imho).
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." -Voltaire
Is the Pine vs. Elm debate as heated as the Vi vs. Emacs controversy? If so, my vote goes for Elm.
(B) + (D) + (B) + (D) = (K) + (&)
watching it change is like watching evolution in motion
it doesn't change - people change it.
and the people have changed it well - way to go pine!
j.
I mean, very new users tend to use graphical interfaces for almost everything... And there are plenty graphical MUAs ou there. And old, more "advanced" users tend to use more sofisticated or powerful MUAs (graphical or non-graphical), like Emacs' VM, Mutt, etc.
So.... does Pine really still maintain a user-base? If so, what would be the reasons for these users sticking with Pine? (As you can see, I'm not a Pine fan ;), but anyways, I'd like to hear from those who are...).
I for one really don't care about Pine that much as as mail program. I love Pico, the wonderful little text editor that comes with it. Yeah I know there's the GPL nano, but I'm still pico all the way, and put it on every unix machine I use. It's nice to see that the one app I use probably more than any other is still in development.
Pico (the simple text editor that comes with Pine) should be a standard feature with every *nix distribution... it's hard enough for newbies to fix problems and set up features on their new machines without having to struggle through vi (or clugging through whatever GUI text editor the distributor's peddling).
i dont think anyone realizes that your post is a joke.
Careful, captain. Some of us are still using Pine.
Of course I'm not surprised by the reaction. My mother saw me sshing to my box once and said "Oh God, that brings back horrible memories..." Who says that UI has nothing to do with End User acceptance? Me personally: I love it. But to most people its like "Why do you go out hunting with a bow and arrow when we can get perfectly good meat down at the Kroger?"
Pine Users: the Ted Nugents of the Computing World!
What is music when you despise all sound?
NO.
Evolution in motion eh Hemos? As opposed to evolution which doesn't go forward, or uhh..
sig:
See the "..for smart people" banners Wired runs here? Look elsewhere guys.
GUIs tend to get sluggish when you're using mail as IM replacement, and have a conversation with 3 of your close friends, and send one liners as response..
At least CLI is buffered, so I can keep on typing those commands to my little mutt (and vim), who can barely keep up, much better than using GUI and the mouse.. bah.. although swamping your connection with like 500 mph (mails per hour) isn't too bright.. especially with including the previous, then you get like 1MB mails.
Still nice to see the others with pine and outlook-clone biting the dust.
"If anyone needs me, I'm in the angry dome."
Pine is a great email program. Using only a console it somehow manages to be easier to use than most GUI programs. The error messages are an example of brilliant UI design.
Unfortunatly the licence is not good. While the source is available, distributing changed versions is illegal. This for example makes it illegal for Debian to fix its paths and distribute it, or for me to make a graphical version (anyone remember xpine?)
That means I've now given up on it. Fortunatly there are fairly good replacements, like mutt with pine bindings, or kmail via aalib.
..."because it's slow and messy"...
.
Pine was nice 10 years ago, easier to figure out (for me) than elm, nicer than mail and Mail. But, well, changes take a damned long time coming, and some things (like newsgroup support) seemed to be added for "gee whiz" reasons before things that make reading large mailing lists useful (like threading).
As others have said, most everyone with patience to learn something else has moved on. Most of the people I know have moved on to mutt. And yes, someone's pointed out to me the default keybindings match elm. I guess as you grow and learn . .
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --H.L. Mencken
...instantly gets rm -rf'd by me. Talk about annoying defaults - pine's full of them. Switch to mutt!
A quick search on the changelog reveals nothing improved about the years-old problems with Pine and S/MIME. It simply can't invoke plugins for GPG to check or generate messages that have the GPG signature as an attachment. Which means that 80% of the GPG-signed email that I get is useless and that Pine still does not handle the S/MIME RFC. (The other 20% is handled by patches or stopgaps.) :)
Sigh. I know Mutt is better, but I still use Pine 4.44. I just don't trust those scripts that add Pine keybindings to Mutt..
Too bad evolution is child's play. Like Santa Claus, it's make believe.
That's all, nothing more to see here. Move along...
Mark
PS: Couldn't resist.
I get it, why don't you?
Score: -1 (Troll)
The Web is like Usenet, but
the elephants are untrained.
Evolution takes place over EONS, so maybe he meant "glacially slow and painful".
Question: How does Pine's IMAP client implementation compare to Mutt's? Insight or experience anyone?
I've been thinking of setting up my own IMAP server.... [Offtopic] Cyrus or courier-imap server? Advantages or disadvantages of each?
There even exists a perl script to help the transition: pine2mutt (disclaimer: I still use pine).
But I do this all the time.
Very often I want to download my mail with Mozilla when I get home but I want to know if something urgent has arrived when I'm in college. So I just use 'less' on the spool.
This sig is not recursive.
I've been using Pine ever since I first had access to a shell account (at my school) in 1998. I don't particularily care about the license, as I don't develop in it. I don't particularily care that it doesn't handle newsgroups very well, as I rely on Google Groups for newsreading (I don't post). I could go on.
It's a simple interface, with everything documented WITHIN THE PROGRAM (main reason I don't use vi), and best of all, it comes with Pico, which I think is the most cool, kickass little text editor. Pico on my servers combined with Putty on my Win2k workstation equals easy code and script editing.
Anyway, just my two simolians.
is improved, but not new: it has been there in some form since at least version 4.30.
And don't forget about pico (pine composer), which has been making bad programmers worse for more years than I care to remember.
-Stype
Bus error -- driver executed.
pine sucks .. pine is not elm, and thank fucking ..
.. use mutt .. use Mail .. hell, i'd sooner
god for that
use elm
switch to exchange
I have found that copy and paste (from somewhere else, into pine/pico) using highlight/middle button in X sessions results in a tangled mess -- particularly if it's over some other text, this text is overwritten and whatnot.
Does anyone know if the new version of pine&pico has fixed this problem? I find it to be a big obstacle to useability. Merci.
I am quite civilized, and I should be brought a beer immediately. -- Bruce Sterling
the choice of non-lamers everywhere
I can totally relate. I started with Elm and was forced to switch to pine many years ago when our sysadmin decided to overhaul the system to his likings. After a week or so, I got used to Pine and have been using it ever since. I haven't even tried Mutt as Pine works fine for me.
Maybe I'll give Mutt & Nano a try this weekend. Or maybe sometime around 2005. Who knows.
As some of you are aware, all of the UW email servers allow you to login and use pine to read your email after seeing a screen with some other stuff and this:
E - email: Electronic mail (Pine version 4.44)
So maybe they haven't gotten around to it yet...
Well, not many people may realize it, but the UW has been working on a newer version of Pine then what was just released. Many schools have their own webmail program (UW had this really bad one for a while), but UW has been developing what it calls Webpine for a long time now accessable at webpine.washington.edu if you're a UW student (links to find out more are on the page. It works pretty well, when accessing my old UW email account, I generally log into webpine (I don't have shell access anymore so normal pine is out the window). Given time, and ways to speed the process up for those of us unfortunate enough to be on dialup (broadband isn't always the fastest for some parts of it either), and this could be really good. It's written at least partially in tcl.
It does not supporrt UTF-8 encoding. Unusable on RedHat 8 outside US
Go Stanford! Beat Cal!
sulli
RTFJ.
I kept asking myself, "Why in the world would a text based e-mail need threading." I finally figured it out. It's not multithreading! Duh.
That software like this continues to be used by anyone. I mean really...why? Let go of the past, ditch Pine.
Then, I tried mutt. After a few minutes I was hooked. I now use mutt for all of my mail. I think its ability to seamlessly integrate with GPG was the biggest factor in convincing me to switch.
Yes I admit it, I still use pine even if its not free software. Why? Its to my knownledge the only email client that supports remote imap properly. By that I mean one that doesnt try to re-download the whole list of all messages in the folder like mutt (Very usefull with huge folders). Evolution would probably do the job as it keeps a local copy. But it was way to unstable the last time I tried it. And I need something that I can use over the network.
Any mutt user can tell me if mutt now supports imap properly? And don't tell me gnus is the solution, even if I'm starting to consider it...
When it comes to handling mail, I've found Pine to be the fastest, slickest mail program around. I don't like GUI mail clients as I don't feel I should have to click a mouse to read my mail. I can also run Pine over an ssh connection.
For me at least, it's the only mailreader in existence. Maybe someday I'll try mutt.
"The one big reason is that I can SSH to my box from anywhere and get my mail."
Which is such an ugly hack, compared to IMAP over SSL. IMAP exists. Non-shitty clients exist (Mozilla). Use it!
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
stty sane
stty erase ^H
stty erase ^\?
It's not a bug in pine, it's a bug in your termcap database.
If they have the IMAP stuff turned on for Exchange 2k, you can run Pine as an IMAP client against Exchange. I do this when I'm suspicous about a mail message and don't trust Outlook.
It's kind of amusing to do it, and more functional than using lynx with Outlook Web Access..
That posts like this continue to be made by anyone. I mean really...why? Let go of the past, ditch your user account.
And go away.
Now I admit I'm no Pico master, so if there's stuff missing I don't know because for what I use Pico for, Nano emulates perfectly.
Nano-editor
Cheers,
Jonathan
I've been using PINE for a long time; this does not make me a power user of PINE so much as someone who has eventually had a very few useful bits of information blasted at me enough to have left a small groove in my brain like a flatworm. (Right animal I'm thinking of?) Here's one thing that I hope you find useful: how to use PINE's filters.
:)
:)
:) Scroll down, ignoring a few sections, to the section "ACTIONS BEGIN HERE" and the subsection "Filter action =" Go down to the line "Folder List = " and hit return (again, this is the way you get a text entry field). Type in the name of a folder to which you would like the dreck blasted; "spam" is what I call mine. If the folder does not yet exist, PINE will prompt you and ask if you want to create it; this is a useful catch in case you accidentally try to filter it to "span" instead.
:) If it corresponds to a piece of spam currently in your inbox, you should see a message like "moving one filtered message to "spam.""
:)
Many people, in fact, don't realize that PINE has a very nice filter system. Yes, there *is* a fine manual for pine, but not that many pithy HOWTOs. Or maybe there are -- google searches eventually brought this information to light for me, and I'm just paraphrasing it here for your convenience
So. Let's say you use pine, and want to stop, interrogate and file away from your sensitive eyeballs all email that contains the giveaway snippet "this email cannot be considered spam". Here's a step-by-step guide -- it's only this long to provide assurance; once you start the process, you can probably ignore my steps and simply follow the on-screen prompts.
1) fire up pine if it's not already running.
2) Hit "M" if you're not at the Main screen. My PINE session is setup to take me straight to my inbox, but yours may already bring you right to your main screen, but at any rate hitting M can't hurt
3) (OK, this is really three steps in one) Hit "S" for Setup; Hit "R" for Rules; Hit "F" for Filter, because that's the type of Rule you want to add.
6) The screen you're now looking at is a bit intimidating, but it's really like a gruff pal who is actually friendly once you're past his exterior. Highlighted already is a line that says "No Value Set: using "Filter Rule": at this point, hit return and give your filter an appropriate name. I usually say something like "[keyword description] [(reason)]" -- in this case, I'd make it "this email cannot be considered spam (spam)." From here on out, use your arrow keys or tab around to fill in the relevant information.
7) Let's do this example section by section.
In the top section, the one headed by the line "CURRENT FOLDER CONDITIONS BEGIN HERE," you most likely will not have to do anything; the default is probably to make the filter affect your inbox, which is what I (and I'm guessing most people) usually want.
8) Next section, "FILTERED MESSAGE CONDITIONS BEGIN HERE," that is, looks more complicated than it is. You can ignore the fields you don't care about by just leaving them blank. If you were trying to block all messages from "stalker99@aol.com," you would put that address in the field labeled "From pattern." In our present example, go down to the field "AllText pattern," hit return to give yourself an input field, and type in (or paste in) "this email cannot be considered spam". In fact, "cannot be considered spam" by itself might be even smarter. I avoid punctuation in my spam filters; you want matches, and shorter phrases give more matches.
9) Almost done
10) Hit "E" to "Exit Setup." When PINE asks "Commit changes ("Yes" replaces settings, "No" abandons changes)? " hit Y for Yes. You now have a filter in place!
11) Return to you inbox; "M" for Main and "I" for inbox should do it. If your filter was well applied, you should be down one spam
Note: you can set up filters on ingoing mail for your friends as well as the jerks of the world; you can filter all mail from your old buddies to a folder "pals," and mail from coworkers to "job_mail," etc, by using the "From pattern" field rather than the AllText pattern, for instance.
Then, to read your sorted email, look in the folders you have created, because the incoming messages will be sorted into them. i.e., if you create a "friends" folder, you must open that folder to see the mail which has been sorted into it.
This is a very incomplete look at PINE's filters, but I hope it is useful to you. If you explore the options available on the filter creation page, for instance, you can see that you can also sent junk mail straight to the toilet by deleting it unread; this has resulted in some false positives for me, so I try not to do this any more.
Cheers,
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
I've been using pine since I found out about it when I entered college (well, after using mail for a week...). I've tried Eudora and Netscape 4.76, but didn't find that the GUI added anything. Since I want to access my email from several different places (dorm, home, school, office, public-access library computers), something like Pine is the only way to keep my email accessible and not leave my settings on the computer I am using. (even webmail will leave your email in the browser's cache...)
As long as I have access to a shell account, I can't see not using pine.
Yeah, I still use PINE. I havn't been compelled to switch to mutt but would rather wait for S/MIME compatibility in future versions of PINE.
Do you PINE for the nice days when men were men and user real mail programs? :-)
--
If you moderate this, then your children will be next.
Okay, you can all three put your hands down now. Thanks.
Slashdot. News for Nerds. Stuff that matters. (To at least three people, I suppose.)
Troll? Damn Mods on crack yet again.....
Elm was not y2k-compliant, so it was 'end-of-lifed' before 2000. If I recall correctly, the Elm development team officially recommended Mutt to their users.
I always hated Pine. A few good features, but missing many more, and it had a bad, awkward interface. Going through and changing the default settings helped a lot, but not enough. I always used Elm, and then Mutt. (Oh, and Eudora for GUI.)
"He'd be a broader guy if he had dropped acid once." - Steve Jobs on Bill Gates
It's more that C&C (the computing services people at UDub) takes its time deploying new software to the campus. Netscape 4.x was the browser of choice in the UWEBD package (the connectivity CD they sell to fac/staff/stu that defines the current recommended "benchmarks") until this fall when Mozilla took over.
Remember that UDub is still in session as well. If they upgrade Pine, it'll be over one of the quarter breaks.
Than something like an SSH client.
At the local university and work, the more IMAP client connects the same as my IMAP clients at home do to my mail spool. I consider it a hack to do it via SSH, since SSH was designed for interactive login sessions. In many cases, most of the people for whom I provide email do not have an actual UNIX account on my system. That is why it is a hack: it requires extra accounts and other potentially dangerous settings (like allowing logins via password, instead of private key) to allow remote SSH use from anywhere. I'd much rather people trashed the live copy of my mail spool than my home dir, since it's a lot easier to backup and restore my mail spool.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Nelson: Ha-Hah
(kicks you in stomach, after knocking you to the ground with punch to the face)
You seem to be the moron, he caught his mistake long before you posted your reply...
Although you did make me laugh with that whole he's not a troll, he's a moron thing....
I'm running the plain 4.44 RPM from Red Hat 7.3, and only run an IMAP server on my machine. Pine works fine.
/etc/pine.conf, set inbox-path to "Maildir"
1. In [S]setup/[C]onfig, set inbox-path to "{yourimapserver.com}INBOX"
2. In
Maybe I don't understand the problem you're having, but pine works fine for me with Maildir. Love it.
-- http://frobnosticate.com
Pine insists on sending all of your information out in your email even if you are using a different role. You cannot change this with any option setting. The only way is to patch the source and recompile ;-( This is the kind of behavior you won't see in most GNU/Linux programs (which protect the user's privacy by default).
Have you seen the size of the binary? ~6MB for me!
Finally, lynx is worthwhile!!!
modern e-mail functionality?! I mean, how am I supposed to use an e-mail client that won't respond to Active Virus commands that send copies of itself to everyone in my address book? PINE is just No Fun!
How the hell are you supposed to view attachements with Pine then smartasses?
Although this year they have introduced a very broken web-mail app previously the official line was "All e-mails are locally accessible only!"
This was mitigated by the fact that the UNIX boxen all came with pine. SSH to uni server.
[d?????@altair]$ pine
Instant, fast (well I was the wrong end of 56K) and globally available.
While others are posting about the relative merits of mutt / elm / mh / grep! etc, I think that its good that text based MUA's are still being developed.
I am currently taking a Win32 program with GUI and rewriting to make it run as a Solaris text based prog. This is to allow it to be run over SSH sessions. It has to run on a uni machine, and by allowing it to run text-mode it can be called up from home, without having to trek back to campus.
Text mode apps have their uses. Long live PINE!
Since the biggest objection I can see to PINE is the licensing (and since it's already installed on the system which receives my email, it's not something which bothers me, even, and I stress *even* if it otherwise would), I wonder why UWashington does not give in and dual-license it.
:)
... why not?
Even a one-time release of a particular code snapshot under the GPL or BSD or [insert license] (with no intention of coordinating any further development of that branch) would / should satisfy most of the complainers
This is just an off-the-cuff thought, but
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
> Can it understand more than one local sender
> address as not to be included in the reply set?
It has for awhile. Look in the configuration for 'alt-addresses'. You tell it which addresses to consider 'you'. It won't ask you to include yourself in your reply anymore, and it'll put a '+' in your index screen next to any messages 'To:' any of those addresses.
Regarding threading, how do you set up gnus email if you're not an experienced programmer but do have gnus newsgroups running in emacs?... Most explanations have been too complicated for novices to set up gnus email. oo__ dsaklad@gnu.org
but when it can get rid of spam it will be better :)
Large print giveth, and the small print taketh away
I'm 44 years old, and a *NIX geek. I use pine *100%* for all of my e-mail. Always have, always will. Send it to me in plain text, or I'm not reading it. html e-mail is a MS$ created virus infested, script kiddie gold mine way of communicating for windoze users. Let them have fun with their Exchange/Outlook expereience.
Look in the configuration for 'alt-addresses'.
Thanks dude. I looked around the place where you enter the main address in the config, and couldn't find any likely candidate for secondary address nearbt... Even if I had seen the "alt-field" at the end, I don't think I would have clued in that this was what I was looking for.
Lucky bastards, you guys had more(1)? We had to use dd(1) to read our mail.
Watching Pine..evolve?? Come on! Watching Pine evolve is like watching a dog turd turn white.
Cheers,
Bowie J. Poag
I would still argue that allowing remote logins of any sort soley for mail reading is analagous to using a machine gun to kill flies :)
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
You can use ldap address books, however, you could only bind to the LDAP server as an anonymous user, which doesn't work in many LDAP environments.
Anyone know if this has been fixed in any recent patches? I didn't see it listed, but was hoping I missed it.
I have tried them all (mail readers) and I always find myself going back to pine. I keep a USB keychain drive with me that has a nice SSH client for every OS I may run across -- and I can get to my mail from anywhere. (and on a slow connection -- this is much better than those "heavy html" based mail reader "emulators" that you kids are using these days...)
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
She used Pine over Telnet in her university and learned to like it. One day I was putting together a new home-computer for her family (Windows, Outlook Express, the basic stuff). As I was configuring Outlook for her she commented "Outlook... blah! I hate it! Give me my Pine and Telnet back!". I asked her that is she serious, and she was!
At that moment, I came really close of asking her to marry me.
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
MUTT with PINE bindings!
-adnans
"In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people." --Linus Torvalds
- it is difficult to setup
- fetchmail SUCKS at IMAP and mutt SUCKS even more at it. IMAP is the way to check my inbox
- SCREW list traffic. It sucks. It really sucks when you use mutt and IMAP alone. Pine does a much better job of this with its own inbuilt filters. However,
I admit, I am using slrn and newsgroups more...
PINE PINE, I pined for you! Now here is how I will have you back in my waiting arms!Pine® - a Program for Internet News & Email
I always thought it was: Pine Is Not Elm
Anyone conducted a search on good for pine2mutt addressbook convertors?
NO RESULTS!
Anyone know if Debian pine source has been or will be updated.
The good thing about PuTTY is that the downloable .EXE is the entire program. There's no installer and thus the application can be run from even the most locked down of machines with little difficulty.
I actually spent a year studying at a uni in germany. They had so locked down windows boxes I couldn't even get putty or mirc running. Only approved(tm) programs there. That was actually the biggest reason I shelled out for a laptop.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Ya think that by v4.5, someone by now would have made an add-on so that pine can handle S/MIME certs, but nope... and this "feature" has been on the books since at least 1997.
SELECT * FROM USERS WHERE A_WINNER = "YUO";
When you want to sort your mail, so the newest messages arrive at the top (normal for anyone who reads a LOT of mail), you set Pine to sort by "Reverse Arrival". Using the patch, I hit 'k', and now I expose threads, but ONLY the first message of the thread is sorted in reverse-arrival mode (as it should be). All replies to that thread are shown consecutively underneath it in normal arrival mode (replace dots for spaces, Slashdot strips them):
With the threading in the new Pine 4.5, without using the threading patch (which was written by wash.edu, btw), you get:
And there's no way to stop it. Sorting by Reverse-Arrival hides threads.
Sorting by Threads sorts upside-down (as above).
Sorting by Reverse-Threads puts new messages at the bottom.
I've been a happy user of Pine for 10 years (or however long it has been out), but I can't upgrade to this when such a core function is non-working like this (incidentally, don't tell me to try mutt, I've tried mutt, and it can't even come remotely close in features to what last-year's pine can do, not to mention the exploitable holes with mutt's file browser).
I guess I'll report this again, and hope that Eduardo can come up with a quick patch to fix it.
Not entirely.
What do you mean, not entirely? Either it's illegal or it's not. There's no middle ground.
The current license says you can't distribute modified versions of pine binaries.
It pissed me off because the controlling group within Debian didn't want to work out a deal with UW to allow Pine to be distributed as a normal package within Debian.
You mean a packaged binary instead of an installer?
I don't think anyone would stop you.
But what's wrong with the current setup:
# apt-get --only-source build-dep pine
# apt-get --only-source -b source pine
?
Also, the new version 4.50 hit Debian's incoming already...
Peter
Due to pine's non-free license (and, likely, the advent of mutt), Pine fell out of active maintenance by Debian.
I'm not a pine user myself, being an MH-E developer, but:
# apt-get --only-source build-dep pine
# apt-get --only-source -b source pine
pine v4.50 was uploaded yesterday afternoon.
Peter
"Yacc" owes much to a most stimulating collection of users, who have
goaded me beyond my inclination, and frequently beyond my ability in
their endless search for "one more feature." Their irritating
unwillingness to learn how to do things my way has usually led to my
doing things their way; most of the time, they have been right.
-- S. C. Johnson, "Yacc guide acknowledgements"
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