You're ignoring their point. The first version of Falcon 9 was developed at a cost of $300M, by a company that had to build up its workforce and experience and software and manufacturing and everything else from scratch. Why exactly couldn't literally everyone else have done the exact same thing? Why are they still so far behind?
Everyone is standing on the shoulders of giants. Why has only one been using that shoulder to climb even higher? Why have the others been content to just wander around on the shoulders for the past couple decades?
I was reading an interview earlier this year with one of the top execs at Ariane about why - despite SpaceX showing that it's not only doable, but looks to be a big cost saver - that they're not doing so. And he responded something along the lines of, "if I do that, we'll only make a few rockets per year, and what am I supposed to do with all of my workforce then?"
Of course, it's a fundamental problem for heavily-government-backed (some would say "propped up") rocketry companies: their backing is contingent on them being effective jobs programmes in the regions that their backers represent. They need to be burdened with high labour costs in order to be supported.
They've already brought costs down dramatically. If they can do rapid, low-labour reuse of rockets - the whole point of Block 5 - it will let them bring down prices even further. Two more aspects that are important for them in this regard are learning to capture and reuse fairings, and to recapture the upper stage (they haven't attempted the latter yet; they're looking at a balloon-based entry system).
Of course, their longer term goals are BFR, which is to be even cheaper, but it's critically important that they learn from the (lower production cost, greater-mass-production scale) Falcon 9s.
Hmm, a bit offtopic, but who do I need to bug at Tesla to let them know that my Shill Check hasn't arrived? It's getting a bit frustrating, I can't even afford to buy incense for my Elon Musk Shrine anymore.
$353,50 (+1,53%) and rising. Hey, what happened to your "downward trend"?;)
Enjoy your squeeze. These things are oh-so-much-fun because they pit a classic Prisoner's Dilemma (first to "betray" gets out with the most) against hubris;)
You have to be among the select few in this world who thinks that posting a popular internet meme that's never been the target of criticism before is "done psycho" because Musk did it.
You seem to be confused about how shorting a stock works. If the price is historically among the highest it's ever been, that's bad for shorts, unless they're exceedingly good at timing. Even a long run at a stock that fluctuates around a fairly constant average is bad for shorts unless they're good at timing, since it costs money to borrow shares to short a stock.
Try Teh Google. Injury rates have been reported on the conference calls and investor meetings - aka, where making false statements are criminal acts. Even in the Worksafe report, based on 2015 data, had an injury rate a small fraction of the pre-Toyota NUMMI rate (35 injuries per 100 workers), and still less than the post-Toyota rate. Again, Teh Google.
Tesla's stock is among the highest it's ever been. In the past year it's spent maybe 5% of its time higher than this point. A short would have to be incredibly lucky - even ignoring interest payments - to have made money, at current prices. A number of famous shorts such as Einhorn have been facing heavy fire from their investors for their decision to short Tesla (and lose lots of money in the process).
And apparently you're unaware that what he posted is one of the most popular and enduring memes of all time, even getting coverage in the New York Times.
Lower-than-the-industry-average injury rate despite being in the middle of a major production scaleup, over 30% lower injury rate vs. three years ago, a small fraction as much of an injury rate as the facility had before they took it over = "among the 12 worst employers", in your mind?
Is your argument that Teslas don't do anything? That people are just imagining moving from place to place in their daily lives? That's some serious mind over matter there!
Hint: by far, most Tesla stock isn't held by people who think they have made a "Righteous Investment in Tesla for Progress and Justice". It's held by ruthless Wall Street bean counters. Institutional investors. Retail investors are a significant minority in TSLA.
Now, after 15 years (Ford was profitable its first quarter in business), people are asking, "What's the deal? Tesla is STILL not profitable."
Given the stock spike last week after the Q2 report, "people" are finally starting to believe Tesla when it says that it's going to be sustainably profitable as a major automaker, starting this quarter, after Wall Street having doubted that this would be possible for their entire history
There is soooo much great expectations put on Tesla and built into its stock price, there is no possible way that it can meet them.
Given that Tesla is attacking/creating multiple, multi-trillion dollar markets with a major first-mover advantage (to the point that they're making more EV batteries than everyone else combined, growing their energy division by an order of magnitude on the scale of a year, etc), far from it.
The short campaign managed to slow them down a bit this year by limiting access to borrowed capital, but that ability comes to an end when dealing with a profitable company. Which it is about to become. This quarter.
I really like CF/UHMWPE weaves. UHMWPE is strong, although not as strong as CF, and has trouble being wetted. But unlike CF, it's very good at absorbing impacts. The CF in the weave adds strength and wettability.
And while this shouldn't be a shocker, but Tesla vehicles sell because people love them. Highest consumer satisfaction rating on Consumer Reports, every year.
You know me too well. I'm everywhere. I'm responsible for everything. I'm a shape-shifter. I live in the cracks. I am watching you when you least expect it. I live in the shadows of your darkest fears and, in your weakest moments, when you're naked and vulnerable, I am there - watching, waiting. I live through you all. I am the breath on the back of the neck, the breeze in your hair.
Not in the least. $35k has been confirmed by two independent teardowns, as well as stated by Tesla itself, to be profitable. A profitable vehicle is in no way a "compliance car" But they're only - don't be shocked by this - pulling demand levers whenever they can actually make use of them. And at current production rates, they're in a flood of orders already. Demand levers include:
* Opening up left-hand-drive Europe and ASPA.
* Air suspension (minor, but some people are waiting for it)
* Tow hitch (relatively unimportant in the US, but big in Europe, particularly Scandinavia)
* Opening up right-hand drive
* SR battery
* Non-PUP
* White interior for non-AWD (minor)
* More showrooms (current showrooms are very few and far apart; Tesla mainly relies on word of mouth at present)
* Advertising (they'll eventually go there, but that's the last lever they'll pull).
When Tesla has the production capacity to serve higher margin orders *and* lower margin orders, they'll open lower margin orders. But what's silly is calling a vehicle that multiple entities have confirmed as profitable "a compliance car". That's opposite to the definition of a compliance car. They'll make money on every $35k Model 3 they sell, and thus have an interest in selling as many of them as they can.
They have to get the production rates there first, however. What's your argument exactly? I'm curious. Are you asking them to never introduce a vehicle that's profitable (SR, non-PUP) - that when their production hits levels to saturate global demand for LR+PUP, that they should just stop growing and give up the SR and non-PUP markets? Or is your argument that they should start selling lower margin vehicles immediately (despite all of the backlog for higher margin vehicles) and slow down their expansion?
"Doubling down"? He deleted his posts within hours, and then apologized to the guy who told him to shove his charity-asked-for-by-rescuers-to-save-children up his ass. I'm not sure what exactly you want from him to make amends - for him to shoot himself in the middle of the street? For someone else to do it? Given all of the people who virulently hate the guy, and Unsworth's mother publicly calling for it, hey, if so, you might get your wish.
"Doxing (from dox, abbreviation of documents[1]) or doxxing[2][3] is the Internet-based practice of researching and broadcasting private or identifiable information (especially personally identifiable information) about an individual or organization"
Finding posts on public forums is in no way "digging up private or identifiable information".
how is a swatting not an "attack in real life", paid shill?
There was no "swatting". They received a threat that Tripp - a guy who had just sabotaged their systems, and had been repeatedly written up for anger issues - was dangerous. They reported it to the police. The police investigated and decided it wasn't at present a threat, and closed the case.
Every single party involved did their job correctly. Tesla security would have been utterly negligent not to report it. The police would have been utterly negligent not to investigate it.
And "shill"... I like the sound of that! I'd like to know where I can collect my check, though. I guess I am "paid" in the fact that as your short selling run collapses, my TSLA stock rises:) In that regard, I'm paid from the money you lost. How does that make you feel?
Guess a 9% rise last night wasn't good enough. Up to nearly 12% now:)
Slashdot Mirror
You're ignoring their point. The first version of Falcon 9 was developed at a cost of $300M, by a company that had to build up its workforce and experience and software and manufacturing and everything else from scratch. Why exactly couldn't literally everyone else have done the exact same thing? Why are they still so far behind?
Everyone is standing on the shoulders of giants. Why has only one been using that shoulder to climb even higher? Why have the others been content to just wander around on the shoulders for the past couple decades?
I was reading an interview earlier this year with one of the top execs at Ariane about why - despite SpaceX showing that it's not only doable, but looks to be a big cost saver - that they're not doing so. And he responded something along the lines of, "if I do that, we'll only make a few rockets per year, and what am I supposed to do with all of my workforce then?"
Obvious reaction to that statement...
Of course, it's a fundamental problem for heavily-government-backed (some would say "propped up") rocketry companies: their backing is contingent on them being effective jobs programmes in the regions that their backers represent. They need to be burdened with high labour costs in order to be supported.
They've already brought costs down dramatically. If they can do rapid, low-labour reuse of rockets - the whole point of Block 5 - it will let them bring down prices even further. Two more aspects that are important for them in this regard are learning to capture and reuse fairings, and to recapture the upper stage (they haven't attempted the latter yet; they're looking at a balloon-based entry system).
Of course, their longer term goals are BFR, which is to be even cheaper, but it's critically important that they learn from the (lower production cost, greater-mass-production scale) Falcon 9s.
Hmm, a bit offtopic, but who do I need to bug at Tesla to let them know that my Shill Check hasn't arrived? It's getting a bit frustrating, I can't even afford to buy incense for my Elon Musk Shrine anymore.
$353,50 (+1,53%) and rising. Hey, what happened to your "downward trend"? ;)
Enjoy your squeeze. These things are oh-so-much-fun because they pit a classic Prisoner's Dilemma (first to "betray" gets out with the most) against hubris ;)
Sorry, mom, I'll try to go to bed sooner in the future.
You have to be among the select few in this world who thinks that posting a popular internet meme that's never been the target of criticism before is "done psycho" because Musk did it.
I suggest you put all your life's savings into shorting Tesla stock. I already have my money where my mouth is. How about you?
You seem to be confused about how shorting a stock works. If the price is historically among the highest it's ever been, that's bad for shorts, unless they're exceedingly good at timing. Even a long run at a stock that fluctuates around a fairly constant average is bad for shorts unless they're good at timing, since it costs money to borrow shares to short a stock.
Try Teh Google. Injury rates have been reported on the conference calls and investor meetings - aka, where making false statements are criminal acts. Even in the Worksafe report, based on 2015 data, had an injury rate a small fraction of the pre-Toyota NUMMI rate (35 injuries per 100 workers), and still less than the post-Toyota rate. Again, Teh Google.
Right. So a spike of over 16%, and a drop of less than half a percent, is "a downward trend"?
A ton of shorts loaded on at the last spike, almost none of them have covered, and it's still almost as high as it was then.
Tesla's stock is among the highest it's ever been. In the past year it's spent maybe 5% of its time higher than this point. A short would have to be incredibly lucky - even ignoring interest payments - to have made money, at current prices. A number of famous shorts such as Einhorn have been facing heavy fire from their investors for their decision to short Tesla (and lose lots of money in the process).
And apparently you're unaware that what he posted is one of the most popular and enduring memes of all time, even getting coverage in the New York Times.
I sense a new sport in the making. Surfers slather themselves up in fire-retardant gel and attack each other with flamethrowers while surfing ;)
Lower-than-the-industry-average injury rate despite being in the middle of a major production scaleup, over 30% lower injury rate vs. three years ago, a small fraction as much of an injury rate as the facility had before they took it over = "among the 12 worst employers", in your mind?
Is your argument that Teslas don't do anything? That people are just imagining moving from place to place in their daily lives? That's some serious mind over matter there!
Hint: by far, most Tesla stock isn't held by people who think they have made a "Righteous Investment in Tesla for Progress and Justice". It's held by ruthless Wall Street bean counters. Institutional investors. Retail investors are a significant minority in TSLA.
The funny thing is that they pay interest - sometimes at loan-shark rates - for the privilege of losing money on Tesla.
Given the stock spike last week after the Q2 report, "people" are finally starting to believe Tesla when it says that it's going to be sustainably profitable as a major automaker, starting this quarter, after Wall Street having doubted that this would be possible for their entire history
Given that Tesla is attacking/creating multiple, multi-trillion dollar markets with a major first-mover advantage (to the point that they're making more EV batteries than everyone else combined, growing their energy division by an order of magnitude on the scale of a year, etc), far from it.
The short campaign managed to slow them down a bit this year by limiting access to borrowed capital, but that ability comes to an end when dealing with a profitable company. Which it is about to become. This quarter.
Be nice. They lost a ton of money the other day betting against Tesla; they want to vent.
I really like CF/UHMWPE weaves. UHMWPE is strong, although not as strong as CF, and has trouble being wetted. But unlike CF, it's very good at absorbing impacts. The CF in the weave adds strength and wettability.
And while this shouldn't be a shocker, but Tesla vehicles sell because people love them. Highest consumer satisfaction rating on Consumer Reports, every year.
You know me too well. I'm everywhere. I'm responsible for everything.
I'm a shape-shifter.
I live in the cracks.
I am watching you when you least expect it.
I live in the shadows of your darkest fears and, in your weakest moments, when you're naked and vulnerable, I am there - watching, waiting.
I live through you all.
I am the breath on the back of the neck, the breeze in your hair.
Cheers!
I love how I permanently dwell in your brain rent-free ;)
Not in the least. $35k has been confirmed by two independent teardowns, as well as stated by Tesla itself, to be profitable. A profitable vehicle is in no way a "compliance car" But they're only - don't be shocked by this - pulling demand levers whenever they can actually make use of them. And at current production rates, they're in a flood of orders already. Demand levers include:
* Opening up left-hand-drive Europe and ASPA.
* Air suspension (minor, but some people are waiting for it)
* Tow hitch (relatively unimportant in the US, but big in Europe, particularly Scandinavia)
* Opening up right-hand drive
* SR battery
* Non-PUP
* White interior for non-AWD (minor)
* More showrooms (current showrooms are very few and far apart; Tesla mainly relies on word of mouth at present)
* Advertising (they'll eventually go there, but that's the last lever they'll pull).
When Tesla has the production capacity to serve higher margin orders *and* lower margin orders, they'll open lower margin orders. But what's silly is calling a vehicle that multiple entities have confirmed as profitable "a compliance car". That's opposite to the definition of a compliance car. They'll make money on every $35k Model 3 they sell, and thus have an interest in selling as many of them as they can.
They have to get the production rates there first, however. What's your argument exactly? I'm curious. Are you asking them to never introduce a vehicle that's profitable (SR, non-PUP) - that when their production hits levels to saturate global demand for LR+PUP, that they should just stop growing and give up the SR and non-PUP markets? Or is your argument that they should start selling lower margin vehicles immediately (despite all of the backlog for higher margin vehicles) and slow down their expansion?
"Doubling down"? He deleted his posts within hours, and then apologized to the guy who told him to shove his charity-asked-for-by-rescuers-to-save-children up his ass. I'm not sure what exactly you want from him to make amends - for him to shoot himself in the middle of the street? For someone else to do it? Given all of the people who virulently hate the guy, and Unsworth's mother publicly calling for it, hey, if so, you might get your wish.
"Doxing (from dox, abbreviation of documents[1]) or doxxing[2][3] is the Internet-based practice of researching and broadcasting private or identifiable information (especially personally identifiable information) about an individual or organization"
Finding posts on public forums is in no way "digging up private or identifiable information".
There was no "swatting". They received a threat that Tripp - a guy who had just sabotaged their systems, and had been repeatedly written up for anger issues - was dangerous. They reported it to the police. The police investigated and decided it wasn't at present a threat, and closed the case.
Every single party involved did their job correctly. Tesla security would have been utterly negligent not to report it. The police would have been utterly negligent not to investigate it.
And "shill"... I like the sound of that! I'd like to know where I can collect my check, though. I guess I am "paid" in the fact that as your short selling run collapses, my TSLA stock rises :) In that regard, I'm paid from the money you lost. How does that make you feel?
Guess a 9% rise last night wasn't good enough. Up to nearly 12% now :)