Well, had he said that in the beginning, they could have never gotten this case off the ground, but he was very specific in the beginning. Plus when the doodie hit the fan, I personally would have removed all evidence from the computer, or at lease gone GPG on it.
First, I applaud you and the way you have stood up against the indignities you have suffered.
This is something that has been running around my mind since the beginning of this. Would it not have been easier to simply claim that you discovered the encryption scheme by accident? It it possible that you might have simply stumbled upon it while playing with a DVD. Since it seems the entire case revolves around the possible "illegal" reverse engineering to Xing's product, you could claim you never used it, you just happend upon the encryption one day.
Sounds stupid, but they would have to prove otherwise to have a case, right?
I disagree, it seems (given recent examples) that the attempt to censor has the reverse effect. It causes even more of the "questionable" material to pop up everywhere. I have a copy of the DeCSS code that I otherwise could have cared less about on my server simply for this reason.
DeCSS has become more widespread than most code fragments not because people are using it, but because people are taking a stand against those trying to censor them.
More effective censorship in this example would have been to not do anything about, then it would have been a midly importent project in the open source world, but would never have become as popular as it is now.
You know, I knew this DOJ thing was going to start a bad trend. At what point did we become weak little powerless consumers? Do we really need to call on the government every time WE (consumers) are offered an bad product?
Look, many in the industry has had it with shoddy products coming out of Microsoft, they wanted something more stable, faster, and gennerally better. Lo and behold, linux arrived, and it has gained market share beyond what anyone predicted years ago. Not only that, but BSD is getting noticed more as well. BeOS has even become popular in various groups.
Now I ask you, how did the DOJ help all this happen? It didn't. The DOJ has done nothing yet, but we see that superior software is chipping away at the Microsoft beast. I would personally prefer to let the market decide (as it is doing) what is the best software for it to use.
I personally preferred Tunnels of Doom, but it was a audio cartrage loading game, so it was a pain to play. Carwars was cool too.
There IS a very nice TI99/a emulator for DOS, but I can't remember what it is called offhand. It comes with all the old games though. Maybe that is reason enough to give freeDOS a try:)
I never did that since I got a hold of a manual showing all the int21 functions. Maybe someday I'll go back an look at that. In the mean time, I'm trying to figure out how to program for Linux, it's really a pain un-learning so much:)
I think a good many of us started hacking on DOS. Despite its maker, many of us look back with fond memories to the days of dissembling COMMAND.COM (I can't have been the only only doing this:) and pretty much learning to program on this platform.
Heck, I started the same way as this guy. Anyone who has typed DIR on a 286 to display a directory with more than 50 files knows the mind-numbing slow rate in which it displayed files. So, I learned assembly language (at the age of 14) and wrote DIRX to replace it. It's a usless program now, but it was popular on local BBS's at the time:)
Finkployd
PS. I do not recommend that ANYONE try to learn assembly language as a first programming language. It will forever ruin you ability to program:)
In 'traditional' media, such as newspapers and television, reporters are usually relatively duty-bound to have Real Fact to back up anything they report as Real Fact.
I've been reading some of the traditional media's reporting of the DeCSS ordeal and I've got to disagree with you. I don't think traditional reporters are more likely to be impartial, they have their own agendas and beliefs just like anyone, plus they are supported by large media companies that also have their own agendas.
The difference is in numbers. There are many more "reporters" and broadcasters on the net, so statistically you are going to have more mistakes, lies, and such. I for one like this trend, as it encourages the viewer/listener/reader to be more of and active participant and actually THINK about what the are presented with, and critically judge it's validity, instead of blindly accepting what they are spoon fed by the talking heads on TV.
I was going to respond to the AC, but held off since you have pretty much said everything I would have, but this last comment bothers me.
So, it's more important simply because it affects more people? Those people in the parking lot aren't any less scared or intimidated just because they're a smaller subset.
I see the point you are making, but more importantly than any number of people who feel "intimidated" is the person who was killed. Let's not lose sight of the fact the murder is murder. Secondary is the effect that murder may or may not have on anyone or any group. I personally don't think the US can punish murder correctly and that should be the focus.
It seems to me that making an issue of the race of a murder victim shifts the focus from prosecuting a murder to prosecuting racism. While I agree racism is bad, it doesn't hold a candle to murder as far as horrific crimes go.
Really? Compare what an average distro of Linux comes with to what NT comes with. You can run just about anything you need right out of the box with a Linux distro, whereas NT needs several thousand more dollers worth of software to approach what Linux can do.
I imagine they aren't reading the higher end of the comment spectrum (the area where they just might LEARN something), but instead focus on the bottom feeders that just make us look bad.
"Look this guy claims to be an 3l33t hax0r and says '*uck the system, I'm going to copy dvd's now! they can't touch me'. I KNEW this was all a bunch of kids just breaking the law for fun."
Perhaps if they had read the dead trees they sent you, they might realise how silly their case is...Nahhhh. As a rule, we aren't talking about bight people here.
This is just great. It's the first time a Slashdot story had my laughting out loud at work.
So now we no longer have to worry about distributing a "trade secret" that was obtained illegally, we are simply mirroring a public court document. Once again, stupidity has saved the day. Am I wrong in guessing that this pretty much destroys the case against us?
Well, they are the best references, but they really don't help with step by step procedures or things like that. But it you need to know everything you can do with a grep command, they are easier to folow then the man page.
And you can't even get support unless you're running a certain distro
I've gone from complete newbie, to paid Linux admin without ever paying money for support. All along the way I had this nifty thing called the Internet to help me. That's right, newsgroups, how-tos, IRC, user groups, they all helped me learn, or fix any problems I ran into. The best part, they didn;t charge me. Wierd huh?
Homer Simpson: "They have the Internet on computers now!"
While they battle it out, Linux, *BSD and other open source programs will be improving at a faster rate than either of those two could hope to achieve.
Actually, just about everyone I know (online and real life) who is into OSS is posting mirrors and laughing all the way. I really haven't seen any squirming.
Please don't pretend to be stupid enough to claim it's anything to do with legal copies of your own DVDs. Crap and you know it and we know it.
Perhaps you haven't been paying attention at all. Or perhaps you are just really dense. It is EASIER to make a copy of a DVD without decrypting it. Understand that? I didn't think so. The only reason you would want to decrypt it is to VIEW it. A perfectly reasonable use of your own DVD disk, now isn't it?
DVDs are copyrighted, you have NO right to make any copies of it EVEN for your own private use (this is not like VHS or CDs).
Oh really? Explain the what is different. The content in DVDs ARE copywrited, but I'm still allowed to view it if I own it. However, the encryption method WAS NOT copywrited, therefor, I may publish it at will. Others in this thread have touched upon this more than I.
Josh's post is right on the money.
Actually it contains many factual errors, again disputed elsewhere in the thread.
To create a tool that does so and/or to distribute it is illegal.
It's illegal for me to copy VHS tapes or record movies off HBO, but I can sell my VCR (which, believe it or not, can do this) The funny thing is, DVD-CSS DOES NOT HELP you in copying DVDs. It's easier (and possible) to just do a bit by bit copy onto another disk. No decryption is needed.
Please read what others have written and follow the links to revelant information before making statements that serve only to make you look silly.
I'm looking at that graph and I don't see that indication yet. I also don't see anything that would leade me to believe that IIS would suddenly become more favorable over Apache. IIS is developed much slower, bugs and security holes are fixed slower (if at all) and the underlying OS it is forced to run over has it's own share of problems. Apache on the other hand perfectly demostrates how open source can (perhaps not always) provide a much faster devlopment model, with quicker turnaround on bugs and security proglems. Combine that with the many operating systems it supports and you've got a server that I think will probably wipe IIS off the map in a several years. The only thing IIS has is a GUI for dummies. Now that is great for end users, but if your web server admin needs graphics and buttons, then he just might not be trained enough in server configurations.
NT cam be stable, you just really have to know what you are doing to make it that way. I've seen time and again MSCE's set up a system with all the defaults enabled and watch it crash like Ted Kennedy on a bridge.
Slashdot Mirror
Well, had he said that in the beginning, they could have never gotten this case off the ground, but he was very specific in the beginning.
Plus when the doodie hit the fan, I personally would have removed all evidence from the computer, or at lease gone GPG on it.
Finkployd
First, I applaud you and the way you have stood up against the indignities you have suffered.
This is something that has been running around my mind since the beginning of this. Would it not have been easier to simply claim that you discovered the encryption scheme by accident? It it possible that you might have simply stumbled upon it while playing with a DVD. Since it seems the entire case revolves around the possible "illegal" reverse engineering to Xing's product, you could claim you never used it, you just happend upon the encryption one day.
Sounds stupid, but they would have to prove otherwise to have a case, right?
Finkployd
I disagree, it seems (given recent examples) that the attempt to censor has the reverse effect. It causes even more of the "questionable" material to pop up everywhere. I have a copy of the DeCSS code that I otherwise could have cared less about on my server simply for this reason.
DeCSS has become more widespread than most code fragments not because people are using it, but because people are taking a stand against those trying to censor them.
More effective censorship in this example would have been to not do anything about, then it would have been a midly importent project in the open source world, but would never have become as popular as it is now.
Finkployd
You know, I knew this DOJ thing was going to start a bad trend. At what point did we become weak little powerless consumers? Do we really need to call on the government every time WE (consumers) are offered an bad product?
Look, many in the industry has had it with shoddy products coming out of Microsoft, they wanted something more stable, faster, and gennerally better. Lo and behold, linux arrived, and it has gained market share beyond what anyone predicted years ago. Not only that, but BSD is getting noticed more as well. BeOS has even become popular in various groups.
Now I ask you, how did the DOJ help all this happen? It didn't. The DOJ has done nothing yet, but we see that superior software is chipping away at the Microsoft beast. I would personally prefer to let the market decide (as it is doing) what is the best software for it to use.
Finkployd
At least, the talkback part is. I got my nifty new .sig from a talkback post.
Think Princess Bride
Finkployd
Bill Gates: "Innovation"
Kids these days....
:)
Finkployd
Bill Gates: "Innovation"
I personally preferred Tunnels of Doom, but it was a audio cartrage loading game, so it was a pain to play. Carwars was cool too.
:)
There IS a very nice TI99/a emulator for DOS, but I can't remember what it is called offhand. It comes with all the old games though. Maybe that is reason enough to give freeDOS a try
Finkployd
Bill Gates: "Innovation"
Remember when Norton Tools were useful? :)
Finkployd
Bill Gates: "Innovation"
At 21 I am :)
I remember playing that on my Texas Instruments TI99a
Finkployd
Bill Gates: "Innovation"
I never did that since I got a hold of a manual showing all the int21 functions. Maybe someday I'll go back an look at that. :)
In the mean time, I'm trying to figure out how to program for Linux, it's really a pain un-learning so much
Finkployd
Bill Gates: "Innovation"
I think a good many of us started hacking on DOS. Despite its maker, many of us look back with fond memories to the days of dissembling COMMAND.COM (I can't have been the only only doing this :) and pretty much learning to program on this platform.
:)
:)
Heck, I started the same way as this guy. Anyone who has typed DIR on a 286 to display a directory with more than 50 files knows the mind-numbing slow rate in which it displayed files. So, I learned assembly language (at the age of 14) and wrote DIRX to replace it. It's a usless program now, but it was popular on local BBS's at the time
Finkployd
PS. I do not recommend that ANYONE try to learn assembly language as a first programming language. It will forever ruin you ability to program
Bill Gates: "Innovation"
In 'traditional' media, such as newspapers and television, reporters are usually relatively duty-bound to have Real Fact to back up anything they report as Real Fact.
I've been reading some of the traditional media's reporting of the DeCSS ordeal and I've got to disagree with you.
I don't think traditional reporters are more likely to be impartial, they have their own agendas and beliefs just like anyone, plus they are supported by large media companies that also have their own agendas.
The difference is in numbers. There are many more "reporters" and broadcasters on the net, so statistically you are going to have more mistakes, lies, and such. I for one like this trend, as it encourages the viewer/listener/reader to be more of and active participant and actually THINK about what the are presented with, and critically judge it's validity, instead of blindly accepting what they are spoon fed by the talking heads on TV.
Finkployd
Bill Gates: "Innovation"
I was going to respond to the AC, but held off since you have pretty much said everything I would have, but this last comment bothers me.
So, it's more important simply because it affects more people? Those people in the parking lot aren't any less scared or intimidated just because they're a smaller subset.
I see the point you are making, but more importantly than any number of people who feel "intimidated" is the person who was killed. Let's not lose sight of the fact the murder is murder. Secondary is the effect that murder may or may not have on anyone or any group. I personally don't think the US can punish murder correctly and that should be the focus.
It seems to me that making an issue of the race of a murder victim shifts the focus from prosecuting a murder to prosecuting racism. While I agree racism is bad, it doesn't hold a candle to murder as far as horrific crimes go.
Finkployd
Bill Gates: "Innovation"
Really? Compare what an average distro of Linux comes with to what NT comes with. You can run just about anything you need right out of the box with a Linux distro, whereas NT needs several thousand more dollers worth of software to approach what Linux can do.
Finkployd
Bill Gates: "Innovation"
I imagine they aren't reading the higher end of the comment spectrum (the area where they just might LEARN something), but instead focus on the bottom feeders that just make us look bad.
"Look this guy claims to be an 3l33t hax0r and says '*uck the system, I'm going to copy dvd's now! they can't touch me'. I KNEW this was all a bunch of kids just breaking the law for fun."
Perhaps if they had read the dead trees they sent you, they might realise how silly their case is...Nahhhh. As a rule, we aren't talking about bight people here.
Finkployd
Bill Gates: "Innovation"
This is the only post here that is actually more funny than the origional story.
:)
Great job
Finkployd
Bill Gates: "Innovation"
Look at me, I'm shaking in my little space boots :)
I guess this virus will attack every Linux based system EXCEPT Red Flag Linux, right?
Finkployd
Bill Gates: "Innovation"
It's cool.
(Since they aren't here to accept your appology, as the one with the closest nick, I'll accept for them)
Finkployd
Bill Gates: "Innovation"
This is just great. It's the first time a Slashdot story had my laughting out loud at work.
So now we no longer have to worry about distributing a "trade secret" that was obtained illegally, we are simply mirroring a public court document.
Once again, stupidity has saved the day. Am I wrong in guessing that this pretty much destroys the case against us?
earnestdesigns.com/dvd
Finkployd
Bill Gates: "Innovation"
Well, they are the best references, but they really don't help with step by step procedures or things like that.
But it you need to know everything you can do with a grep command, they are easier to folow then the man page.
Bill Gates: "Innovation"
And you can't even get support unless you're running a certain distro
I've gone from complete newbie, to paid Linux admin without ever paying money for support. All along the way I had this nifty thing called the Internet to help me. That's right, newsgroups, how-tos, IRC, user groups, they all helped me learn, or fix any problems I ran into. The best part, they didn;t charge me. Wierd huh?
Homer Simpson: "They have the Internet on computers now!"
Finkployd
Bill Gates: "Innovation"
While they battle it out, Linux, *BSD and other open source programs will be improving at a faster rate than either of those two could hope to achieve.
Finkployd
Bill Gates: "Innovation"
Feeding time for the trolls already? I must have overslept.
Bill Gates: "Innovation"
Watching the OSS community squirm is amusing.
Actually, just about everyone I know (online and real life) who is into OSS is posting mirrors and laughing all the way. I really haven't seen any squirming.
Please don't pretend to be stupid enough to claim it's anything to do with legal copies of your own DVDs. Crap and you know it and we know it.
Perhaps you haven't been paying attention at all. Or perhaps you are just really dense. It is EASIER to make a copy of a DVD without decrypting it. Understand that? I didn't think so. The only reason you would want to decrypt it is to VIEW it. A perfectly reasonable use of your own DVD disk, now isn't it?
DVDs are copyrighted, you have NO right to make any copies of it EVEN for your own private use (this is not like VHS or CDs).
Oh really? Explain the what is different. The content in DVDs ARE copywrited, but I'm still allowed to view it if I own it. However, the encryption method WAS NOT copywrited, therefor, I may publish it at will. Others in this thread have touched upon this more than I.
Josh's post is right on the money.
Actually it contains many factual errors, again disputed elsewhere in the thread.
To create a tool that does so and/or to distribute it is illegal.
It's illegal for me to copy VHS tapes or record movies off HBO, but I can sell my VCR (which, believe it or not, can do this)
The funny thing is, DVD-CSS DOES NOT HELP you in copying DVDs. It's easier (and possible) to just do a bit by bit copy onto another disk. No decryption is needed.
Please read what others have written and follow the links to revelant information before making statements that serve only to make you look silly.
Finkployd
Bill Gates: "Innovation"
I'm looking at that graph and I don't see that indication yet. I also don't see anything that would leade me to believe that IIS would suddenly become more favorable over Apache. IIS is developed much slower, bugs and security holes are fixed slower (if at all) and the underlying OS it is forced to run over has it's own share of problems. Apache on the other hand perfectly demostrates how open source can (perhaps not always) provide a much faster devlopment model, with quicker turnaround on bugs and security proglems. Combine that with the many operating systems it supports and you've got a server that I think will probably wipe IIS off the map in a several years. The only thing IIS has is a GUI for dummies. Now that is great for end users, but if your web server admin needs graphics and buttons, then he just might not be trained enough in server configurations.
NT cam be stable, you just really have to know what you are doing to make it that way. I've seen time and again MSCE's set up a system with all the defaults enabled and watch it crash like Ted Kennedy on a bridge.
BTW: I use Slackware too
Bill Gates: "Innovation"