Five to ten years ago the local school board was well managed and had lots of extra money lying around. They put this extra money into the latest and greatest technology of the time. Now the educational benefit of that technology may have been debatable. But there is more to this story than just education...
The whole community benefited from their investments. This being in a rural area, we had technology available that rivaled that of cities of the same time period.
But all good things must end. The government went on their amalgamation rampage and paired up said school board with the neighboring schoolboard that had significant debt. Now that the school board isn't investing heavily in technology, the whole community has really started to fall behind the technology curve.
So in conclusion, since there is no Ministry of Technology, the school boards are the ones fulfilling that role. If they aren't doing a good job with technology, everyone suffers.
Around here, it's about a 3-4 hour walk to the nearest populated area. Mass transit is not an option for obvious reasons. So why wouldn't you want to get your license as soon as possible?
I'm not sure what you mean. There is no difference to the applications between setting DISPLAY=:0 and DISPLAY=some.remote.host:0. The program doesn't know, or care, that the X server might be on another machine.
Maybe if you use XDMCP it would be a bit more clear, since it handles the step I believe you are missing automatically.
All the extensions I've written, including one that is now part of Firefox, started life as a web page. There are already hundreds of visual HTML tools. There are also visual XUL editors if required.
So I'm not sure what visual tools are missing exactly...
Darwin doesn't have a standard GUI-API either, yet you said MacOS was okay. Like MacOS is an environment layer on top of Darwin, KDE is an environment layer on top of Linux*. When you are using KDE as your "OS" you have a standard API, it's called Qt. If you are using the GNOME "OS", you also have a standard API, it's called GTK+.
Your problem with standard APIs seems to be purely marketing and not about the technology at all.
You just can't accurately say that charging for the OS, or the development tools is the same as charging for the widgets.
Part of the cost of the operating system is to provide you with those widgets. The cost is just passed on to the end user instead of the developer in the cast of Qt. You mentioned WINE, but that is a reimplementation of the Windows widget set.
Speaking of WINE, there is a widget set for Linux that you said suits your requirements. Why don't you use it?
Anyway, Windows widgets and use of the API is indeed free. You can do anything you want with them
How do you plan on modifying the Windows API on Windows, like you plan on doing with GTK+? According to your post you have big plans to modify GTK+**, so one would assume you'd want to make those same changes to the Windows API. But last time I checked the source wasn't even available, let alone license issues.
* And various other systems, I know. ** "Here, you can do this limited set of typical development tasks, but not these other typical development tasks (like mixing my stuff in with their stuff, or proprietary stuff in with their stuff, or patented stuff in with their stuff)" is not free.
While it is up for debate, it seems that Windows may have a lower TCO right now. But by choosing Windows technology right now, if history has shown us anything, you will be forever locked into Windows. On the other hand Linux software has a history of being able to easily move to other platforms (including Windows), which will allow easy migration to whatever the cheapest route is in the future.
A good businessman should look far beyond the end of his nose when choosing a solution and that in-part means not tying yourself to a single vendor. How does the Microsoft solution help companies down the road, when Microsoft cannot offer the lowest TCO? Will we see affordable migration libraries (like WINE) come from Microsoft to help the transition to future, cheaper, systems should that ever happen? Or do you feel it would be wise for business to spend a little more now, to spend a lot less down the road?
You don't need to pay anything to have access to a very broad spectrum of OS widgets when developing for Windows
Where'd you get that idea? Windows XP Pro ~$500. Application framework and tools comparable to Qt from Microsoft ~$600. Qt ~$1000. So, access to those widgets on Windows costs about the same as Qt cost on Linux if you are developing commercial applications.
Or you could use a free widget library like GTK+ if you were really worried about the money.
If you develop non-GPL code you must do it on the commercial version.
That's an easy one to get around. License the development code under the GPL. Since you are not distributing it you don't have to give the source to anyone. Then change the license for the release version to a commercial one.
A lot of people complain about GTK+ being slow ass system
GTK+ using it's native themes is very slow on my system. But using the GTK+ Qt theme (renders GTK+ apps using Qt themes) I see a significant speed increase. So there is definitely a bottleneck in there somewhere, but it's not necessarily the GTK+ library.
Slashdot Mirror
My school used SGI machines*. I don't even need any hands to count how many times I've seen IRIX since.
* And Windows and Macs of course, but I stuck to the SGIs as much as possible as they were so much nicer to use.
If you have a problem with what Apple, then CHANGE THE FREAKIN' LICENSE
You can't retroactively change the license. And Apple doesn't care about current and future KHTML releases as their code isn't based on it anyway.
A little history lesson.
Five to ten years ago the local school board was well managed and had lots of extra money lying around. They put this extra money into the latest and greatest technology of the time. Now the educational benefit of that technology may have been debatable. But there is more to this story than just education...
The whole community benefited from their investments. This being in a rural area, we had technology available that rivaled that of cities of the same time period.
But all good things must end. The government went on their amalgamation rampage and paired up said school board with the neighboring schoolboard that had significant debt. Now that the school board isn't investing heavily in technology, the whole community has really started to fall behind the technology curve.
So in conclusion, since there is no Ministry of Technology, the school boards are the ones fulfilling that role. If they aren't doing a good job with technology, everyone suffers.
Around here, it's about a 3-4 hour walk to the nearest populated area. Mass transit is not an option for obvious reasons. So why wouldn't you want to get your license as soon as possible?
I'm not sure what you mean. There is no difference to the applications between setting DISPLAY=:0 and DISPLAY=some.remote.host:0. The program doesn't know, or care, that the X server might be on another machine.
Maybe if you use XDMCP it would be a bit more clear, since it handles the step I believe you are missing automatically.
Plus, you don't get your entire desktop
Sure you do... if you want it. The components that make up the desktop are just X applications like any other.
GTK+ and Qt are bloated for network use. X11 itself works quite well over slow links.
xmove
There is no GPL version of Qt for windows, that's why many things don't get ported.
Yes there is.
All the extensions I've written, including one that is now part of Firefox, started life as a web page. There are already hundreds of visual HTML tools. There are also visual XUL editors if required.
So I'm not sure what visual tools are missing exactly...
There are already plenty of different open source PDF reader and writers.
Fair enough. But in my opinion a built-in laptop mouse can never be a ''decent'' mouse...
Maybe you haven't used a decent laptop mouse then, because I prefer mine to an external mouse.
and a WINE does not run on any legitimate Microsoft operating systems
Yes it does.
Do you know what Beta means?
It means they aren't making money from it yet.
Darwin doesn't have a standard GUI-API either, yet you said MacOS was okay. Like MacOS is an environment layer on top of Darwin, KDE is an environment layer on top of Linux*. When you are using KDE as your "OS" you have a standard API, it's called Qt. If you are using the GNOME "OS", you also have a standard API, it's called GTK+.
Your problem with standard APIs seems to be purely marketing and not about the technology at all.
Part of the cost of the operating system is to provide you with those widgets. The cost is just passed on to the end user instead of the developer in the cast of Qt. You mentioned WINE, but that is a reimplementation of the Windows widget set.
Speaking of WINE, there is a widget set for Linux that you said suits your requirements. Why don't you use it?
How do you plan on modifying the Windows API on Windows, like you plan on doing with GTK+? According to your post you have big plans to modify GTK+**, so one would assume you'd want to make those same changes to the Windows API. But last time I checked the source wasn't even available, let alone license issues.
* And various other systems, I know.
** "Here, you can do this limited set of typical development tasks, but not these other typical development tasks (like mixing my stuff in with their stuff, or proprietary stuff in with their stuff, or patented stuff in with their stuff)" is not free.
How do you plan on building a fridge with metal gears and no electronics???? I think I'd pay $1500 just to see how you did it!
While it is up for debate, it seems that Windows may have a lower TCO right now. But by choosing Windows technology right now, if history has shown us anything, you will be forever locked into Windows. On the other hand Linux software has a history of being able to easily move to other platforms (including Windows), which will allow easy migration to whatever the cheapest route is in the future.
A good businessman should look far beyond the end of his nose when choosing a solution and that in-part means not tying yourself to a single vendor. How does the Microsoft solution help companies down the road, when Microsoft cannot offer the lowest TCO? Will we see affordable migration libraries (like WINE) come from Microsoft to help the transition to future, cheaper, systems should that ever happen? Or do you feel it would be wise for business to spend a little more now, to spend a lot less down the road?
You don't need to pay anything to have access to a very broad spectrum of OS widgets when developing for Windows
Where'd you get that idea? Windows XP Pro ~$500. Application framework and tools comparable to Qt from Microsoft ~$600. Qt ~$1000. So, access to those widgets on Windows costs about the same as Qt cost on Linux if you are developing commercial applications.
Or you could use a free widget library like GTK+ if you were really worried about the money.
If you develop non-GPL code you must do it on the commercial version.
That's an easy one to get around. License the development code under the GPL. Since you are not distributing it you don't have to give the source to anyone. Then change the license for the release version to a commercial one.
For now, but what will the do in the future? Especially if they see major a major marketshare slip.
A lot of people complain about GTK+ being slow ass system
GTK+ using it's native themes is very slow on my system. But using the GTK+ Qt theme (renders GTK+ apps using Qt themes) I see a significant speed increase. So there is definitely a bottleneck in there somewhere, but it's not necessarily the GTK+ library.
You should come to Canada for your winters. Not only is it closer, it was almost 20C (68F) yesterday.
I saw a couple of college age kids making out on one cam, but that's as close as I have got.