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Adobe Unveils Open Source Library
anamexis writes "Adobe premiered (no pun intended) opensource.adobe.com recently. The first two libraries available, titled Adam and Eve, respectively, take on complex GUI issues in applications. They are written in C++ and have been released under the MIT License, an OSI-Approved Open Source License."
If only they'd fix Acrobat Reader for linux...
Not being familiar with the MIT License (too lazy to RTFL), just wondering what use these libraries could be to projects like the GIMP.
I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
We are in for treat.
Quid Pro Quo, nothing more, nothing less.
Insert Cain & Abel joke here...
if there's no pun intended then by definition it's not a pun.
I was expecting some amazing graphics library but it is just a bunch of fairly trivial C++ templates. Nothing Boost cannot already do.
I don't really know much about Adobe, but I do know their linux native client for Adobe Acrobat (still 5 btw) really sucks.
...But please, release something worthwhile under an open source license, like the backend stuff for Acrobat or something...
And for the love of God, release Reader 7.0 for Linux, and do it soon!
wow, maybe now i can finally understand the intricacies of that 'page curl' filter!!
"when the sun sets on the ghetto, all the broken stuff gets cold"
I welcome Adobe's efforts to work with the open source community.
That being said, I am still too afraid to use any Adobe products after DmitryGate.
I think it's going to take alot more from Adobe to win the trust and respect of this community, or at least this member.
I should mention that I am also a former Adobe customer.
Combine these with an Apple and you have the downfall of mankind...
I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
Hahahah warez them doood so leet to get their serizls 0 day :) woot free free
...another GUI library.
...Searching for "Linux" using the site-only Google search on the opensource.adobe.com website, yields one result: http://opensource.adobe.com/pipermail/pythonphotos hop/2004-January.txt
And that one result no longer exists (you get a 404 when trying to access it). So if any of you folks are preparing to post "Oh boy, that means Photoshop for Linux is just around the corner!" -- you'd better think again.
X11 License
This is a simple, permissive non-copyleft free software license, compatible with the GNU GPL.
This license is sometimes called the "MIT" license, but that term is misleading, since MIT has used many licenses for software.
source
It's very similar to the BSD license in style:
t .html
Copyright (c) year copyright holders
Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:
The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.
THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.
Apparently the main difference is that BSD explicity forbids you from saying that you were endorsed by the original writer.
A good list of licenses is http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/license-lis
from the webpage:
;-) )
The most ambitious library, Adam, stems from the intuition that the logic behind a simple human interface can be distilled to a function:
f(x) -> x'
Is it just me but does this not sound a little to broad a definition of a library? I mean I can write anything like this:
My most ambitious library (The_Meaning), stems from the intuition that the logic behind the entire universe can be distilled to a function:
f(x) -> x'
obviously there is much work to be done on "The_Meaning" but when it is finished it will do everything (and the answer will turn out to be a disappointing 42
Your session timed out I'm afraid. What exactly were you trying to link to? Curious minds want to know.
I remember looking for info on when they and MacroMedia would release products for linux, and found that Adobe was one of the most Anti-open source companies out there. Now they are open-sourcing some crap that noone cares about. I want photoshop for linux! That and StudioMX are the only reasons I use Windows, but they both run fine under Cross-Over Office anyway... It just seems silly to emulate such a crappy OS.
Haven't looked at what they've actually released, but kudos to Adobe for not creating yet another "Open Source" license like so many other companies seem to do in this situation.
Geez, who moderates here these days?
This article was featrued on MacSlash since yesterday !
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Simulated Partial Specialization for non-compliant C++ compilers. Allows a user to obtain many of the benefits of partial specialization of C++ templates without direct compiler support.
Python action plug-in for Adobe Photoshop. Allows a user to write Photoshop action plug-ins using Python. Has Python interfaces to all the actions APIs.
Python plug-in for Adobe Illustrator. An Illustrator plug-in adapter that allows users to access the C level API from Python
Python plug-in for Adobe After Effects. An After Effects plug-in that allows users to access the C level API from Python.
Python module for Perforce SCM. A C coded Python module that provides access to all the calls in the Perforce source code management system SDK.
-Don
Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com
For the less code-literate among us, what exactly do these files do? Adobe's site doesn't make it clear at all, so R'ing TFL doesn't help...
or a copy at http://opensource.abobe.com/licenses.html)
It's wrong in every one! I am 311337 programmer! And now, my greatest hack of all! A Photoshop clone!
10 Print "Starting Amazing Photoshop clone!"
20 Run Photoshop
30 End
Cherry OS guy, please send your job offers to the above address.
I'm sorry, but I do not agree with you on many points... seriously, the Hotmail signup process requires a LOT more unchecking of boxes than the 3 unchecks you need when downloading Acrobat... it's a very common practice, and even Joe Shmoe who is able to find out he needs Acrobat is aware to not check everything... besides, at least Adobe doesn't sell your email addy to dozens of third parties...
Secondly, what's wrong with a business paying for creating PDF's ? There's nothing really wrong with Adobe Acrobat's business model: create a portable document format, make readers available for free on any OS, guarantee that it looks the same everywhere, and let people who want to create PDF documents using Acrobat pay...
Now, there already are pdf writers other than acrobat, so what's the problem...
IMHO, you're highly overreacting.
- Leon Mergen
http://www.solatis.com
That's not a troll, it's been hosed for me too, with Mozilla/Linux, for the last day or so. The home page keeps coming up with all the content missing.
Even though several close friends work for adobe,
I am still not much of a fan of anything
they do. Although Photoshop became the
defacto standard for creating graphics for
the web, I now use fireworks and am much
happier.
And, I suspect, like many, I groan when I
realize I have clicked a pdf on the web.
Despite having a 3 Ghz machine connected to
a T3 I still have to often wait 15-20 seconds
for a pdf page to come up. And then I get
to suffer while it uses 50 (fifty) megs of
memory!!! No thanks guys...
How about "open sourcing" (or just making freely available) the damn Photoshop plugin SDK?
This isn't the obnoxious advertising clause you're looking for. There is similar verbiage in the GPL saying that the copyright notice and license notice have to be kept.
combined with: "The Eve layout engine has already saved Adobe millions of dollars in localization costs."
Means this contibution (mainly UI work based on Boost) is a very decent contibution.
T.J. Schmitz - the man, the myth, the legend - o
... isnt that Adobe (tm) Opensource (c)?
For the love of God, Cain't they find better names? Just right now, I was Abel to think of a few just off the top off my head. My mind is being Flooded with ideas for software names, in fact. Funny story, I used to Noah guy who could Babel out a hundred names on command...what a Nimrod that guy was.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit
Didja ever wonder why SO MANY people have the Yahoo toolbar even though they don't use Yahoo?
I just installed Acrobat Reader 7 on one of our test machines yesterday. There was a rather obvious checkbox to select whether you want this or not.
(S(SKK)(SKK))(S(SKK)(SKK))
Oh, he was executed for "Crimes Against Copyright".
The dirty little secret of the RIAA and MPAA lawsuits is that the people who refuse to settle and pay "damages" are being charged with the same crime. Fortunately for the file traders, most of these cases are being settled in one manner or another, but they aren't going to arbitration or a courtroom. Some DHS agents just walk in, arrest the "file trader" and charge them. While the 12 year old girl and the 80+ grandma who got served reached the media, there's already about a dozen 20 something file traders that have been put to death by the federal government.
One poor slob was running Freenet as well as eDonkey, and was promptly charged with distributing child pornography. Most people don't know that the courts have taken running freenet as "proof" that the user is distributing kiddie porn. Remember folks, if you can't police the content, police the utility.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
What the hell are you talking about?
Can we now expect the same lack of effort on /. from the moderators that we get from the editors?
The parent was a joke employing wordplay regarding the fact that Adobe has named its open source releases Adam and Eve. The Apple comment is referencing the Downfall of mankind via Original Sin in the Garden of Eden, not an attack on the Apple corporation trolling for trouble.
Hmmm, the jokes aren't as funny when they have to be explained in detail to triggerhappy mods...
The quoted license has no advertising clause, abnoxious or otherwise. Go spend some time actually reading the FSF website before incorrectly spouting their propaganda.
Imagine the goatse.cx picture.
Now imagine it's talking.
And yes, I did just pick a round about way to say "I'm talking out my a**."
Or perhaps it's a picture of the future, as corporate rule of the nation and laws continues to grow, and the vestiges of Democracy and Human Rights are slowly but surely stripped away.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
Would you Adam & Eve it?!?
From the documentation:
Adam is a modeling engine and declarative language for describing constraints and relationships on a collection of value, typically the parameters to an application command. When bound to a human interface (HI) Adam provides the logic that controls the HI behavior. Adam is similar in concept to a spreadsheet or a forms manager. Values are set and dependent values are recalculated. Adam provides facilities to resolve interrelated dependencies and to track those dependencies, beyond what a spreadsheet provides.
Eve consists of a declarative language and layout engine for constructing an HI. The layout engine in Eve takes into account a rich description of UI elements to achieve a high quality layout - rivaling what can be achieved with manual placement. A single HI description in Eve suffices for multiple OS platforms and languages. This document describes Eve2, the latest version of Eve. Eve2 was developed to work with Adam and to incorporate many improvements that have been requested since Eve1 was written.
I must admit that I haven't looked at the code in great detail, but that doesn't sound very trivial to me. Also, 1749K of zip compressed C++ code would be a heck of a lot of trivial code.
Here's something that nobody needs because it already exists!
I have been lucky enough to have a chance to try out the Adobe Reader 7 for Linux Beta version and I must say Good Job to Adobe.
:-( Hundreds of mega-bytes and starts up much slower than xpdf. But believe me, it really worth this.
It's *MUCH* better than the previous edition, and *MUCH* better than we had expected. The quality of the rendering is as good as the Windows version. The user interface is very good, too. It uses GTK+ 2.x for the UI, not the oh-so-ugly Motif toolkit. Think about that! It feels very native and cute on Linux platform. Very stable, too. It never crashed even I use old versions of the various libraries or feed it with really mal-formed PDF code. During my testing I found two minor bugs and reported to Adobe. This aside, it's a very good product. I know you don't believe me, but you will see it for yourself when it released.
The only one disappointing thing is that it's also as bloated as the Windows version
Now I'm just waiting Adobe to port my favourite application, Adobe Illustrator, to Linux platform.
I'm sure AppleScript could do a lot of the same things, but still--do you know if there is anything like this for the Mac version of Photoshop? Python is much more intuitive for me than AppleScript. The fact that AppleScript is so English-like can be pretty confusing sometimes, because you tend to fall back to writing code like English speaking patterns. That tends to break programs.
Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a soportar Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a espabilar
Adobe used the Quorum Latitude Macintosh application porting libraries to port Photoshop to Unix and X-Windows.
The result of using a complex Mac emulation library that mapped quirky Mac toolbox calls onto the byzantine X-Windows graphics model and shoddy Motif/X Toolkit API was an absolutely horrible, ugly, buggy, unusable version of Photoshop. I could quickly cause it to core dump with three clicks of the magnifying glass tool.
Here is a case study of porting Adobe Photoshop to Windows and Unix. It describes some of the reasons Adobe decided to use the Macapp emulation approach for Unix, instead of properly rewriting their code to be platform independent.
Quorum had been around for a while. When I started porting SimCity to Unix in 1991, I evaluated Quarum Latitude, and decided that it was not worth using because my goal was to make a better version of SimCity than the one that ran on the Mac, not a crippled one. For example, I implemented multi-player support via multiple X11 connections to different servers at once, which would have been impossible if the program though it was running on a Macintosh.
-Don
Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com
So, Adobe wants to replace alot of their UI parsing with these libraries.
Apparently (from TFA) most of their bugs are from UI problems.
So, they had the brillaint idea of writing up skeleton code for UI parsing and sending it out to the open source community so they don't actually have to debug it themselves, or pay people to do so.
In the meantime, they're not releasing anything meaningful or useful at all. Is that about right?
It looks to me like just another widget set. What makes this any better than WXWindows or the QT library?
I was expecting something like a PDF reader/writer library.
-TheDawgLives suckitdown
What is the difference between the MIT license and a BSD license? They look almost the same.
For libraries aiming to ease and solidify interface developpement, I'm amazed by the poor 'accessability' of their site. I had to randomly click through 5 links to find an introduction to what Adam & Eve are, and that was in corporatese.
Ick.
It's funny how an internally-developed corporate project can tie itself up in complicated vocabulary.
Misleading titles? Inflammatory blurbs? Keep in mind that Slashdot is a tabloid.
There seems to be a fair bot of documentation on the code itself, and a set of language references, but I don't see any examples of code which actually uses these. How soon could we expect things like, say, a tutorial?
Don't get me wrong; these concepts are both very intriguing. However, without working examples, I don't see any real 'push' to examine them much further.
So what? The FSF says it's officially an Open Source License. Not everyone "Open Source" likes the GPL, and the GPL is NOT the only "open source" license. Get a grip. Just because an Open Sourced application uses an Open Source License that is NOT GPL does not make the application developers heretics. Small closed minds...
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
The problem is it's coded with the creaky, ancient widget library "motif". I cannot speak for its internals, but motif is older than linux, it's pure C, until fairly recently was commercial closed-source, and I've never seen a motif program that wasn't brittle and flaky. Not to mention unaesthetic, user hostile, non-integrated, and prone to ignoring the scroll wheel. None of which is acceptable anymore, not after using modern apps.
Has this been removed from their library? If not, doesn't it conflict with the whole concept of opensource?
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=POnce GIMP people implement 48bit color and color management, they'll have a potential to take away a large portion of Adobe clientele - web designers and photographers (i.e. people in no way related to prepress and CMYK). When two products have equal capabilities in relation to your tasks, but one is $650 and one is free, the choice becomes really simple.
Right now GIMP is not yet there, but this doesn't mean it'll never be.
Linux IS tier-2, unimportant platform as far as it concerns Adobe. You know, that Desktop Linux - Yeah, This Is The Year.
Scientific community on unix is pretty settled down on Latex or postscript and you truly have no need for PDF in server envorement.
I wonder how this works with their Dockable Toolbar Patent? That one hasn't been overturned yet, has it?
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
Ironic don't you think that it seems to work just FINE in windows?? hehe... suckers:) :)
Maybe it will be compliant once the (fully)standards-compliant IE for Longhorn comes out this year.... or next...
ABEL is a microprocessor programming language, you insensitive clod!
Releasing a complex library set with a great deal of abstraction and not a single example is a joke. Nobody will use it because nobody is going to waste the time to figure it out. Doc that describes what each method does is nice but clearly this libary needs a lot more than that.
Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood. -- H. L. Mencken
and I'm still in disbelief that there are no alternative readers for Windows given Adobe's piss-poor performance.
http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
It won't compile unless you hold down the Alt key when building. This won't be documented in any obvious fashion, and you'll only find out about it when you see someone else doing it, and you ask them what they're doing.
I quickly looked at the sources, and it seems there's no widget implementation or even drawing code in there - only a parser for a GUI description language and a layout engine.
the fsf said it was opensource? dont you mean free? or did the osi say it was open?
opensource isnt the same as free.
When Adobe's methods of taking on "complex GUI issues" result in products like Photoshop and Acrobat Reader... Sorry, I'll pass. Thanks, anyway.
If I don't put anything here, will anyone recognize me anymore?
-Don
Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com
From the modules description...
"In the beginning the programmer created the language and the code. And the code was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the screen of the computer. And the programmer moved upon the keyboard of the computer. And the programmer said, let there be Photoshop: and there was Photoshop. And the programmer saw Photoshop, that it was good: and the programmer divided the Command Parameter Modeling Code from the Underlying Framework." - The Book of Photoshop 1:1-4
After reading the full module overview I must say that this looks pretty nice. Note that releasing Adam and Eve won't let every program just take over Photoshop's look and feel (thank god!). You still need to provide all of your own widgets, all of your own event generation code, all your own application back end, as well as write the event handling and layout descriptions. The advantage of this system though, is that the event handling is described cleaning in Adam Expression language which can parsed to execute in any environment. Likewise, the layout can be simplified by describing it in an environment-neutral way that can then be bound to Adam values.
It doesn't seem revolutionary, but it is a nicely worked out evolution in interface building.
"When ideology and theology couple, their offspring are not always bad but they are always blind." -- Bill Moyers
-Don
Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com
Here are some pictures of dockable tab windows in a visual PostScript debugger for NeWS called "PSIBER (for PostScript Interactive Bug Eradication Routines)", that I wrote at the University of Maryland Human Computer Interaction Lab in 1989. And also Tab Windows with Pie Menus for The NeWS Toolkit that I wrote at Sun in 1990.
What's ironic is that Adobe wrote PostScript, so I corresponded with Adobe employees about PSIBER when I was writing it, even sending them early copies of the source code. Understandably they were very interested in a visual PostScript debugger. So Adobe certainly knew about prior art of docking tabbed windows since 1989.
-Don
Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com
Adobe premiered (no pun intended)
:)
I haven't laughed like that in a while. Thanks.
and it will never have it. As a photographer, I absolutely NEED color management. I can't do without it. Not having color management is a deal breaker for me, and for a lot of other folks. Besides, PSE's support of 48 bit color is castrated in order to not affect Photoshop sales.
So the key to world dominance is:
1. 48 bit color everywhere, without limitations
2. End-to-end color management capabilities
3. Decent, stable Windows version
1. No polished apps
2. Poor hardware support
That's why no one is switching. It is perfectly possible to successfully compete with a graphics editor that sells for $650 a pop. And yeah, I do own a copy of Photoshop CS for Mac. My wallet still hurts. I wish it had competition at the time I bought it.
Here's a link to the text of the MIT License.n ses/mit.ht ml
http://www.paleodb.org/paleosource/lice
The editors did not link the text "MIT License" to the text of the license itself, but to the OSI's page which says that it approves of the MIT license. That's laziness. If the editors want to link to the OSI's page, then they could spend fifteen seconds attaching it to text that says something like "OSI approved".
And that's, of course, beside the fact that the MIT license in no way depends on or is affected by OSI's "approval" of it.
I can't believe these guys are spending all that effort to, in the end, not come up with something better than Mac OS X's AppKit framework (the UI portion of Cocoa).
They're stuck in a static-language, C++ mindset, and so they're designing this huge bloated 'organic' monstrosity of a UI engine, all to avoid the 'inefficiency' of a dynamic language like Objective-C (or Ruby, or Python, for chrissake).
If this is the best they can do, Adobe is dead if only some well-funded competitor wants to come along and stick the fork in.
But then, I think the Boost folks are similarly misguided. Everything they do would be unnecessary in Objective-C, Ruby, or Python, or, if they really want to continue to write in an inscrutable language, just use some obscure Lisp dialect. Boost would then be unnecessary.
They are written in C++ and have been released under the MIT License, an OSI-Approved Open Source License."
Like the FSF says, to call it the MIT license is misleading because MIT uses many licenses. The X11 license would be more accurate. The FSF considers the X11 license to be GPL compatable, and that opinion carries more weight than OSI which is just a corporate relations firm. But beware of the X Windows Trap.
an ill wind that blows no good
.There is also spyware.
And Why not prefer XPDF? At least you can hack it and save/modify parts of the document. unlike the stupendus spywared binary from adobe which won't let you.
I don't understand why linux distributions give adobe acrobat which is closed source instead of xpdf. Must've been bribed.
FWIW, i tried to follow the link "class hierarchy" in the left frame and moz crashed. I sent a feedback msg.
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8b) Gecko/20050217
"Our interests are to see if we can't scale it up to something more exciting," he said.
It happens on Fx/XP 1.01 as well! I also have been having problems specifically with the Games section.
Has this been removed from their library? If not, doesn't it conflict with the whole concept of opensource?
Or is it a trojan, intended as a patent encumbered "gift" to the community to nix the likes of the Gimp should software patents be successfully rammed down the Europeans' throats? The MIT license conviniently says nothing about patent issues (to be fair, the current version of the GPL is hardly perfect in this area too).
Not saying that Adobe is still as evil as it was when it had Dmitry arrested for pointing out the Emporor's lack of clothing, but in these litigious, ever-widening swath-of-government-monopoly-entitlement times some degree of critical assessment is warranted.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
So now that it's been cleared up what this library is, enough with the wxwindows/qt comparisons. On with the relevant comparisons! Can anyone offer comparisons to XUL or the java XML swing stuff? Do we really need more platform independent GUI layout? I dont know that much about this stuff which is why I ask.
Adam and Eve are two separate but related libraries.
Adam allows you to express a bunch of things in terms of other things (e.g. this button's right edge needs to be 10 pixels left of that button's left edge OR this HSV setting is related to that RGB setting) and then have them automagically be kept updated. Neat.
Eve is a UI library. It seems to allow for automated layouts (as well as manual?) and depends on Adam for some of its functionality.
Both depend on the boost C++ libraries.
Even the article description is accurate saying the software is licensed under the MIT License. The SourceForge project site says that the project is under the MIT License. The source code says that its files are under the MIT License. The GNU Project web site says the X11 License is compatible with the GPL.
Help me out here in understanding why you could possibly have drawn a conclusion that there is any incompatibility with the GPL when there is not a single reference on the planet from any of the involved parties such as Adobe, MIT, or the GNU Project that claims such incompatibility. Explain why you have to share in a public forum something that is so obviously false and can be checked by anyone in one minute. Someone tell me why there is a continuous stream of licensing FUD towards licenses such as the MIT License.
Meh.
... looks a lot like the syntax of the SMEL language I created a while ago: http://users.telenet.be/tommycarlier/smel
Actually, I'd say the quality of Adobe products has declined over the last few years - they've reached that stage where they try to milk the current line for as long as possible, while adding more and more mis-features rather than listening to their customers and splitting out features into different products. Quark in its time was also an innovate company, and look what happened to them...
Personally I find the Photoshop CS menu bar over-crowded, and the Layer Style dialog byzantine (quite apart from the fact it takes an age to open). Double clicking on stuff in the layers palette is also a bit hit and miss - click on the text and you get to edit the layer name, just off the text and it opens the layers dialog. They are suffering a little from featuritis. Compared to The GIMP of course, it's a dream to use.
The File menu in Illustrator CS on OS X now includes the gem 'Save for Microsoft Office' which isn't in the Export menu where it belongs but at the top level - a sure sign that the marketing department has taken over, quite apart from that Online Services... stuff and the recent emphasis on copy protection.
I don't agree that there will be no competition to them - Apple for one have the incentive and resources to create a competitor if Adobe continues their slide towards windows. Already the CS suite are pretty slow on anything but the high end hardware under OS X, because they obviously haven't optimised for UI performance on OS X. A competitor doesn't have to produce a category killer all at once; they can start small and cheap, and build up, as Adobe did with InDesign when competing with Quark. In fact on OS X 10.4, with core image, it wouldn't be too hard to produce a competing product to Photoshop Elements, and build from there.
Having said that, yes Adobe will dominate the professional market for years to come, due to inertia if nothing else - I'm still stuck working in quark under classic for quite a few design clients, who would love to switch to InDesign but haven't yet for legacy/cost reasons : )
GIMP has color management and 48 bit color in its short term roadmap. Adobe should be worried of competition IMO (just like Microsoft is worried about Linux). This will be competition between a $650 piece of software and another, $0 one that you can download off the Internets.
BTW, you've seriously overpaid for your copy of Photoshop. If you have PSE, you can get photoshop for $299, which is how I bought it.
Let's get some 100% legacy-free OS X apps out of Adobe! All we need now is someone to kickstart the effort. :)
Cinepaint is a gimp "fork" that can do 96-bit color.and has built-in color managment. Work on cinepaine is suported by a few studio with very deep pockets
Quoted from the cinepaint website....
"CinePaint is different from other painting tools because it supports deep color depth image formats up to 32-bit per channel deep. For comparison, GIMP is limited to 8-bit, and Photoshop to 16-bit"
You might want to check out the Free Object-Oriented License, written by those compression pioneers over at lzip.
Highly, highly recommended reading. If you're curious about the tone of the license, consider the acronym formed by its title.
There is no Advertising Clause in the "MIT" license. According to gnu.org there really is no MIT license (obviously in conflict with OSI's list). Thre are only two licenses here that are, according to the site, also referred to as the MIT license. Both are GPL Compatible:
"X11 License
This is a simple, permissive non-copyleft free software license, compatible with the GNU GPL. Older versions of XFree86 used the same license, and some of the current variants of XFree86 also do. Later versions of XFree86 are distributed under the XFree86 1.1 license (which is GPL-incompatible).
This license is sometimes called the "MIT" license, but that term is misleading, since MIT has used many licenses for software.
Expat License.
This is a simple, permissive non-copyleft free software license, compatible with the GNU GPL. It is sometimes ambiguously referred to as the MIT License."
You are right about the reason so-called advertising clauses are not GPL compatible - it's just really unnecessary in this discussion as the license doesn't contain the advertising clause which, as it exists in the 4-clause BSD license, reads as follows:
"All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software must display the following acknowledgement: This product includes software developed by the University of California, Berkeley and its contributors."
Now, how does that compare to the entirety of the "MIT" license:
"Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:
The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.
THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE."
There is no advertising clause. Now go back into your hole.
I refuse to put up with that kind of bullshit, and do not register or activate any software ever. Until a crack comes out, I will not purchase software with stupid activation shit like this, which clearly only serves to piss off paying customers who have to put up with it, while doing nothing to stop piracy.
Also, if you are not doing print work, gimp is just fine. Maybe "time to time" should be more often than "every few years".
Now we'll get to see even more programs with Adobe's GUIs that ignore all of the settings and standards of the platform they're running on, not to mention reasonable design principles. I'm looking forward to that :)
Anyone know whether Alexander Stepanov had anything to do w/ this? Seems likely...
[o]_O
Disclaimer: I used to work for Adobe. I left a few years ago.
.rc UI resources into expressviews (the precursor to EVE.)
I have experience with EVE that may be more interesting to read that a bunch of anti-Adobe slurs: For a while it was my job to localize Illustrator, and part of that involved converting the old DITL and
At the time, Illustrator had somewhere around six or seven hundred dialogs. Times fourteen languages. Times a few platforms (OS 9, OS X, 95/98/ME/NT, XP). That's a LOT of UI to program, translate, and test.
EVE lets you describe a dialog with one XML-ish text file, and have that layout work for all languages on all platforms. That is a significant potential reduction in UI programming (and hopefully bugs.)
It looks good, too. Take a look at Photoshop or Illustrator's UI. I don't mean the wacky custom controls-- I mean look at the widget layouts. Can you tell which ones were painstakingly created by a human, and which ones are being generated on the fly?
When I was working with this technology, there were a class of problems that couldn't be easily handled (such as alignment across separate view hierarchies) but it looks like EVE2 is fixing most of those areas.
I can't really comment on ADAM since that wasn't at a usable stage when I was at Adobe. Some people have commented that the static binding dates it, compared to say 10.3's Cocoa bindings and KVO. Maybe, but any sort of binding that gets rid of huge chunks of UI glue code is a good thing. It's in C++ because that's what Adobe's giant cross-platform codebases are.
So, this is good stuff. It works. Now you can play with it. What's wrong with that?
Adam and Eve for Dummies!
I see you have a link in your sig to my work blog. While I'm flattered, there are two problems with that:
Thanks!
S.
(Mods & meta-mods: Sorry, only way I can find to communicate over this one)
An Adobe rep told me at a recent XML conference that the future -- even for the technical documentation FM was geared towards -- is InDesign. Period.
Pagemaker on the low end and Framemaker on the high end will probably be supported for some time yet to come, but InDesign already does everything Pagemaker can do (plus a good bit more), and it's slowly but surely encroaching on Frameworker territory.
hahaha, very punny. (no pun intended)
I'm sorry if there was any confusion. Any time someone accuses me of being a Sun employee, I always make it clear that I'm not.
The reason I linked to your blog is that it's the best discussion of the reasoning behind the CDDL I've seen so far. It even beats the OpenSolaris.org FAQ. Unfortunately, Slashdot's signature length limit prevents me from adding a good disclaimer that you're not me, so I'll remove the link for the time being.
Thanks for letting me know of the problem.
-- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
This sounds pretty cool. Recently I've been using wxperl and thinking that it would be quite cool to use the wxwidgets.org XRC (XML based cross-platform gui resources) with an engine that would allow you to specify their actual layout and operation with simple text-like commands. Maybe that is sort of what they have done. Could be amazing! So we need some perl bindings, asap..
how the hell is this interesting? mod this fucking troll down and read the overview for something interesting.