That is exactly the point of this card. In reality it is nothing more than what we have now - except the addition of a query for known terrorists and arrest warrants.
I do feel safer knowing that the guy in line in front of me will be stopped for questioning if he's bin Laden's cousin.
Ok. You aren't giving up any freedom. You want to fly with an ID card? Great, it helps the check-in process. You don't? Ok, check-in an hour earlier for security screening.
They aren't even talking about tracking where people go, you think they have that much storage? Think about it, 100 million people get the card and as you paranoid-folk think, are being tracked when they go shopping for instance. Say 20% of them go shopping, 20 million new records tied in to store records and other indexes. In a 24 hour period. Through a week.
Now we have 140 million rows. How the fuck do you expect anything to sift through that. Not only is it (currently) technologically infeasible, it's just assinane and mundane for people to do so.
All they are talkin about is coming up with a standard federal issued ID. You already have one probably, it's called a drivers license or state issued identification card. This is just the next tier, so shut up about your blathering about america being free and deutchland being a nazi regime. You have to show your passport or drivers license to board a plane now, this is just a more secure mechanism. I don't see you spewing mental diarhea out about that being an attack on liberty.
Yes, some bad will arise from a national ID card. The same bad that can come from using credit cards and state ID cards. Hell, it's easier to track people with credit cards now. So go support your freedom-loving-grassroot-fuckup-view by parading around credit card companies saying they shouldn't record that information too..
I'm not really speaking of localized service. I'm speaking of electronic commerce. I'd be very surprised if your local mom&pop store has a direct line into a credit card clearing house, but instead is going through a tier to the clearing house.
That's all an ecommerce providor is, the little box you swipe your card through. The only difference is the little box is a small cluster of computers that checks to make sure the transaction will hopefully go as smooth as possible.
I know of quite a few canadian oriented businesses that do ecommerce through merchant access kits. Most companies don't have the cash or resources to maintain a direct veriphone contract anyway, which is the only way you can clear and process (Merchant => Bank) credit card transactions. In most circumstances it's Business => Merchant Vendor => Bank.
I've designed an ecommerce system. Similar to design of CyberCash, and they do keep track of your chargeback rating and get scores. It will flag of a "Risk" and most often will have you call or send another form of payment. The good thing (or bad thing) is that if you go against different merchant backends (there aren't that many that are widely used) they don't share the charge back data cross-network.
lol. What I mean with the login thing is sometimes I'll refresh the page and my login information disappears. When I try to login, it refuses for a while. I come back 30 minutes later to try, and it works fine. Last time this happened was about 2 weeks ago. If this isn't fixed I'll start documenting when/if it happens again.
That is probably a little bit more "fail-safe". The issue with high school students is very valid. I have to say I wouldn't allow myself to hire my high-school self to do anything like this in all honesty.
Using college students however would be a much better idea, exchange for college credits and also college students have much on the line if they do something on the shady side of the fence. Hopefully they will utilize the huge edjucation base instead of hiring a bunch of consultants.
First off. You know that they are going to be purchasing a lot of supportive documentation. This could be good for SuSE or whatever distribution they choose. Secondly, I can imagine that a lot of college and high school kids over there would jump at the chance to do an install fest for the government. Not only would this be a cool event just to go hang out at and have fun, but it would look great on a resume. To handle security measures, it would be rather simple to ensure that all the boxes are setup correctly (bulk NMAP compared with a perl script to ensure proper connectivity, along with a package management system... all of which can be done by "quick hacks" and only hiring one or two people to maintain).
I'd really like to see more governments harnessing the zeal of open source advocates and realizing that we actually like doing this stuff and would do it for a resume addon or certificate. Just my thoughts on the issue.
I wasn't saying anything in specific. I'd have to look at the current codebase as mentioned. In response to the parent of my original post, I haven't seen a "Database not available" style error message for quite some time, I was trying to illustrate that at the time not only was MySQL not very mature, but the slashdot code base had a lot of work to do.
Right now, my only gripe with Bender is that it drops the login. This now seems to be quite a bit better as of late, hasn't happened for a few weeks but I'm assuming this has already been reported.
I would say that is more due to Slashdots codebase than MySQL. I have done load balancing tests with MySQL with software I've written that on lesser hardware than Slashdot uses handling a higher load. I haven't looked at the slashdot code recently, but there were a dozen and a half different methods behind the database functions that could have been optimized to better utilize MySQL.
Any database, if not used very thoughtfully, will have serious problems. I had a problem with a Sybase database due to a silly bug (wasn't sharing the dbh handle like it should have) that was crashing Sybase on an enterprise Sun server. So, my point is, I would really look at other sources to find out the quality and stability than Slashdot. I'm not bashing the Slashdot code base, I think it performs it's function better than any M$ piece of software out, but there are a lot more stable applications reliant on MySQL DB's to benchmark against.
The sky is great on my planet, it's a wonderful crystal blue color and a deep black at night. We have one sun and one moon.
You may want to go see a doctor about your paranoia, because it's most certainly not healthy and I hope you don't spawn your belief that everyone is watching you and going to screw you over just because your political affiliations to your children.
Seriously, relax and understand that a national ID card is not going to cause some cataclysmic change in governmental power over citizen information. We already have it, all that is going to change is the efficiency in which queries can be run against. I'd like to know if the guy next to me on a flight isn't a mass murderer on the run... But, suit yourself - great thing about America is we can all have opinions.
You are just being irrational. The odds of someone claiming they are me for whatever reason, or being in a situation that requires a fail-safe identification card will happen much more frequently than the government abusing it's power.
Besides, I'd really like to see you give me one good reason as to how the government could abuse it's power with an identification database that tracks felony convictions, warrants, and other such information. Until then, I'm holding that argument as completely irrational and paranoid.
Why is this unacceptable? Provide one good reason as to why this is unacceptable and maybe I'll change my mind.
Maybe because I don't find it unacceptable that I carry around a card that identifies me as me so that other people can't impersonate me I'm not understanding your argument...
You hit it right on the nose. I think that it's unfair that parents who are unfit to have children have them. All they do is pollute the social circle. Removing children from neglectful children and placing them in homes where people want to have children but can't (due to biological reasons or what not) would prove quite beneficial I believe. It's been proven that family cycles repeat themselves, abusers beget abusers and so on. Removing that circle would help in many other facets and would hopefully reduce all excessive dangerous acts. I'm not saying no one would drink, gamble, etc. But those people who do it excessively wouldn't have the opportunity to infect their offspring with the same behaviors.
I believe that one of the best ways to fix a problem is not to make it illegal, but make it openly legal with regulation committees (non-governmental, I believe if a company wants to produce cocaine it is their responsibility as a company to provide checks and balances) - it would end the war on drugs as well as many other social problems. And, those who over endulge would either die (oh well) or learn not to. I also believe that doing any act upon substance abuse that could cause you to need to be hospitalized for treatment (overdose) should come out of that individuals pocket. If you don't have money, or insurance you don't get treatment. Maybe I'm a bastard but I'm tired of having to spend tax dollars helping a crack whore have a baby then revive the bitch because she just OD's.
I was riding the mass transit light rail to work (Hate commuting) the other day and got in an argument with a homeless man ranting about how it's "junk and should never have been built because that money could go towards homeless people" and I simply responded with, "Why should our tax dollars go towards helping people who are competent but not willing, they have exactly what they deserve." He had no good retort other than to call me a smart ass.
That's the beauty of a free capitalist society (I do have a point to this) - he has a right to object to my philosophy and that of the other people, and he also has a right to be poor and not have a home. These are the liberties that I think are most important in america. I don't think we should ever supply additional income (past unemployment insurance, which I think should come from private companies anyway) to those able and competent to work who choose not to. I believe the US Government for years and years have overstepped the boundaries that any government should. I would love to see a government that only provides the following functions:
Guarantees the rights and security of humans regardless of race, nationality, or religion.
Guarantees the continuance of free trade and unrestricted economic development (supportive of antitrust cases)
I also believe that fire, police, and ambulance should operate as an insurance mechanism that is community funded through a flat tax rate with an opt out method (Choose not to pay it, choose not to receive help, with the exception of police which would be mandatory (same with roads maintenance, etc))
These freedoms such as restricting online gambling, encryption, etc are absolute bullshit. No one gets hurt directly from the act. I hate the six-degrees-of-seperation mentality that is going into these laws. Oh well, Ahmed here had a forged drivers license that he bought from winning on an online casino that he accessed using SSL so we better ban encryption and gambling. *grumble*
So, to end this overly long diatribe that is doing a wonderful job of distracting me from work my whole point is: the US Government is flawed in it's current construction. They strayed from the blue prints and it produced shit because too much is improved. It will continue to do so, unless people rise up for a revolution. (I'm speaking peaceful here, no blood shed is necessary). All that is required is community education. How many highly intelligent people who recognize the flaws in the system would get together every saturday to come up with a new quasi-democratic+republic system of government and work to edjucate the people on what it can do for them and try to get it in power? I know I'd be interested in doing it..
First off, this is getting blown out of proportion. A national ID card would be no different than a drivers license. The DL databases are getting linked together, and also moving towards a standard format of data. Look at your license, you should see a magnetic strip -- oops, they already are tracking you.
To think they are really going to collect statistical data on ~280 million (Guessing how many are old enough...) people and use it as a "tracking number" is absurd.
The only thing I can think would feasibly be tracked by this is a felony/sex-offender/wanted database that would do a quick query against - and I think that's a great idea, any thing you have been convicted of that requires you to state it (ie, sex offender) should be easily accessible electronically. And again, if you aren't doing anything illegal, you have nothing to worry about... They aren't talking about anything new here. The only thing they are talking about is linking all the information together.
You mean your social security number? Already there, most people already have it. Shit, you can be tracked on anything you do... go take a look at 1800 People Search, it provides records 10 years back.
Privacy is an illusion, the only thing that can help you out is that you are a no one and no one gives a rats ass about you. (Speaking generally, not to you as a person)
I'd agree - I read that in the article but I'm not clear if they are going to just try the typical C&D route or actually try to pursue legal action and hold whomever the creator is liable.
Sounds like Bert is Evil is history... shame, I found a lot of them funny.
Well hey then! Thank's for enlightening me that it's a-ok to "stoop that low" as long as it's not done by you first.
Thank you for shopping at Hypocrites'r'Us, please come again.
Legal recourse?
on
Bert Is Evil
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
The scary thing about this is I'm sure the original Bert and Bin Laden was meant as a joke, as is Bert and Pamela Anderson or Kevin Costner.
Hopefully no one is going to attack whoever made the original because Ignacio has stated it wasn't his intent nor does he find it humorous.
I know someone who used to play Counter-Strike as 'USAma Bin Laden' and always was terrorist. After the attack he felt very bad about the joke and changed his name. I have to say that I feel bad for these people who do something pre-attack as a joke or whatnot and now have people criticizing them when a month ago today would have found it funny.
I'm fairly certain, and you can confirm this, that most of the work the W3C has done has been based not entirely inside it's own organization. There has been dozens of discussions, examples, and debates amongst people about standards. Perhaps some went to patents, perhaps some didn't.
Do you feel that this is a "cheat" for anyone who helped devise a standard that is not part of the W3C?
I also feel the W3C will find this ultimately counter productive to it's purpose. People don't like to have to pay licenses to conform to a standard that their end-users and target audiences don't know about. jimbob@aol.com really isn't going to know the difference between a W3C-certified site and one that isn't, and I can't imagine most people paying for a standards system that does not add any value to the experience.
I did say it was a bad idea. There were a lot of misguided sentiments towards them, however there was an actual valid purpose behind it. The execution and restructing went horribly wrong.
Yeah, you know what, we'd *all* be safer if they stuck us all in internment camps. You first!
Choice: Die because of a few angry hicks who are pissed that your great granddaddy was from an island in the pacific.
or
Chill in a funded camp and stay alive, while maybe not the best conditions but probably better as you were living in a migrant society.. Japantown can be pretty ghetto.
Hmm.. yeah, I can see how it was an absolutely horrid and wrong thing to do... I mean, saving all those poor innocent japanese-americans from being lynched was absolutely uncalled for.
Perhaps you are aware of the practise during world war two of rounding up American citizens of Japanese decent and putting them in interment camps. If not you should brush up on your history. Civil rights trampled because of a knee jerk reaction.
It also protected the Japanese-Americans from Americans. Their civil liberty rights were not trampled because of a knee jerk reaction, but for their own safety. I'm not saying what happened was a-ok, but there was definite good motivation behind it. The conditions could have definitely been a lot better from what I have heard though.
There is a huge difference between a knee-jerk reaction and careful planning to situate oneself in a higher position of power or more stable existence.
As for your Franklin quote, here's a modified version: Those who trade security for liberty wind up with neither.
Slashdot Mirror
I do feel safer knowing that the guy in line in front of me will be stopped for questioning if he's bin Laden's cousin.
Dude. Get a grip.
Take a breath.
Ok. You aren't giving up any freedom. You want to fly with an ID card? Great, it helps the check-in process. You don't? Ok, check-in an hour earlier for security screening.
They aren't even talking about tracking where people go, you think they have that much storage? Think about it, 100 million people get the card and as you paranoid-folk think, are being tracked when they go shopping for instance. Say 20% of them go shopping, 20 million new records tied in to store records and other indexes. In a 24 hour period. Through a week.
Now we have 140 million rows. How the fuck do you expect anything to sift through that. Not only is it (currently) technologically infeasible, it's just assinane and mundane for people to do so.
All they are talkin about is coming up with a standard federal issued ID. You already have one probably, it's called a drivers license or state issued identification card. This is just the next tier, so shut up about your blathering about america being free and deutchland being a nazi regime. You have to show your passport or drivers license to board a plane now, this is just a more secure mechanism. I don't see you spewing mental diarhea out about that being an attack on liberty.
Yes, some bad will arise from a national ID card. The same bad that can come from using credit cards and state ID cards. Hell, it's easier to track people with credit cards now. So go support your freedom-loving-grassroot-fuckup-view by parading around credit card companies saying they shouldn't record that information too..
That's all an ecommerce providor is, the little box you swipe your card through. The only difference is the little box is a small cluster of computers that checks to make sure the transaction will hopefully go as smooth as possible.
I know of quite a few canadian oriented businesses that do ecommerce through merchant access kits. Most companies don't have the cash or resources to maintain a direct veriphone contract anyway, which is the only way you can clear and process (Merchant => Bank) credit card transactions. In most circumstances it's Business => Merchant Vendor => Bank.
I've designed an ecommerce system. Similar to design of CyberCash, and they do keep track of your chargeback rating and get scores. It will flag of a "Risk" and most often will have you call or send another form of payment. The good thing (or bad thing) is that if you go against different merchant backends (there aren't that many that are widely used) they don't share the charge back data cross-network.
lol. What I mean with the login thing is sometimes I'll refresh the page and my login information disappears. When I try to login, it refuses for a while. I come back 30 minutes later to try, and it works fine. Last time this happened was about 2 weeks ago. If this isn't fixed I'll start documenting when/if it happens again.
Ah, thank you. Not sure why that threw me off... probably because it was entirely way to early for me to be awake.
Using college students however would be a much better idea, exchange for college credits and also college students have much on the line if they do something on the shady side of the fence. Hopefully they will utilize the huge edjucation base instead of hiring a bunch of consultants.
if they decide to take Linux and not use SuSE
Uhm.. what? SuSE is a Linux based operating system. Did you mean an american boxed linux distro?
I'd really like to see more governments harnessing the zeal of open source advocates and realizing that we actually like doing this stuff and would do it for a resume addon or certificate. Just my thoughts on the issue.
Right now, my only gripe with Bender is that it drops the login. This now seems to be quite a bit better as of late, hasn't happened for a few weeks but I'm assuming this has already been reported.
Any database, if not used very thoughtfully, will have serious problems. I had a problem with a Sybase database due to a silly bug (wasn't sharing the dbh handle like it should have) that was crashing Sybase on an enterprise Sun server. So, my point is, I would really look at other sources to find out the quality and stability than Slashdot. I'm not bashing the Slashdot code base, I think it performs it's function better than any M$ piece of software out, but there are a lot more stable applications reliant on MySQL DB's to benchmark against.
You may want to go see a doctor about your paranoia, because it's most certainly not healthy and I hope you don't spawn your belief that everyone is watching you and going to screw you over just because your political affiliations to your children.
Seriously, relax and understand that a national ID card is not going to cause some cataclysmic change in governmental power over citizen information. We already have it, all that is going to change is the efficiency in which queries can be run against. I'd like to know if the guy next to me on a flight isn't a mass murderer on the run... But, suit yourself - great thing about America is we can all have opinions.
Besides, I'd really like to see you give me one good reason as to how the government could abuse it's power with an identification database that tracks felony convictions, warrants, and other such information. Until then, I'm holding that argument as completely irrational and paranoid.
Maybe because I don't find it unacceptable that I carry around a card that identifies me as me so that other people can't impersonate me I'm not understanding your argument...
I believe that one of the best ways to fix a problem is not to make it illegal, but make it openly legal with regulation committees (non-governmental, I believe if a company wants to produce cocaine it is their responsibility as a company to provide checks and balances) - it would end the war on drugs as well as many other social problems. And, those who over endulge would either die (oh well) or learn not to. I also believe that doing any act upon substance abuse that could cause you to need to be hospitalized for treatment (overdose) should come out of that individuals pocket. If you don't have money, or insurance you don't get treatment. Maybe I'm a bastard but I'm tired of having to spend tax dollars helping a crack whore have a baby then revive the bitch because she just OD's.
I was riding the mass transit light rail to work (Hate commuting) the other day and got in an argument with a homeless man ranting about how it's "junk and should never have been built because that money could go towards homeless people" and I simply responded with, "Why should our tax dollars go towards helping people who are competent but not willing, they have exactly what they deserve." He had no good retort other than to call me a smart ass.
That's the beauty of a free capitalist society (I do have a point to this) - he has a right to object to my philosophy and that of the other people, and he also has a right to be poor and not have a home. These are the liberties that I think are most important in america. I don't think we should ever supply additional income (past unemployment insurance, which I think should come from private companies anyway) to those able and competent to work who choose not to. I believe the US Government for years and years have overstepped the boundaries that any government should. I would love to see a government that only provides the following functions:
I also believe that fire, police, and ambulance should operate as an insurance mechanism that is community funded through a flat tax rate with an opt out method (Choose not to pay it, choose not to receive help, with the exception of police which would be mandatory (same with roads maintenance, etc))
These freedoms such as restricting online gambling, encryption, etc are absolute bullshit. No one gets hurt directly from the act. I hate the six-degrees-of-seperation mentality that is going into these laws. Oh well, Ahmed here had a forged drivers license that he bought from winning on an online casino that he accessed using SSL so we better ban encryption and gambling. *grumble*
So, to end this overly long diatribe that is doing a wonderful job of distracting me from work my whole point is: the US Government is flawed in it's current construction. They strayed from the blue prints and it produced shit because too much is improved. It will continue to do so, unless people rise up for a revolution. (I'm speaking peaceful here, no blood shed is necessary). All that is required is community education. How many highly intelligent people who recognize the flaws in the system would get together every saturday to come up with a new quasi-democratic+republic system of government and work to edjucate the people on what it can do for them and try to get it in power? I know I'd be interested in doing it..
To think they are really going to collect statistical data on ~280 million (Guessing how many are old enough...) people and use it as a "tracking number" is absurd.
The only thing I can think would feasibly be tracked by this is a felony/sex-offender/wanted database that would do a quick query against - and I think that's a great idea, any thing you have been convicted of that requires you to state it (ie, sex offender) should be easily accessible electronically. And again, if you aren't doing anything illegal, you have nothing to worry about... They aren't talking about anything new here. The only thing they are talking about is linking all the information together.
Privacy is an illusion, the only thing that can help you out is that you are a no one and no one gives a rats ass about you. (Speaking generally, not to you as a person)
Sounds like Bert is Evil is history... shame, I found a lot of them funny.
Thank you for shopping at Hypocrites'r'Us, please come again.
Hopefully no one is going to attack whoever made the original because Ignacio has stated it wasn't his intent nor does he find it humorous.
I know someone who used to play Counter-Strike as 'USAma Bin Laden' and always was terrorist. After the attack he felt very bad about the joke and changed his name. I have to say that I feel bad for these people who do something pre-attack as a joke or whatnot and now have people criticizing them when a month ago today would have found it funny.
Thanks for the chuckle.
Do you feel that this is a "cheat" for anyone who helped devise a standard that is not part of the W3C?
I also feel the W3C will find this ultimately counter productive to it's purpose. People don't like to have to pay licenses to conform to a standard that their end-users and target audiences don't know about. jimbob@aol.com really isn't going to know the difference between a W3C-certified site and one that isn't, and I can't imagine most people paying for a standards system that does not add any value to the experience.
I did say it was a bad idea. There were a lot of misguided sentiments towards them, however there was an actual valid purpose behind it. The execution and restructing went horribly wrong.
Choice: Die because of a few angry hicks who are pissed that your great granddaddy was from an island in the pacific.
or
Chill in a funded camp and stay alive, while maybe not the best conditions but probably better as you were living in a migrant society.. Japantown can be pretty ghetto.
Hmm.. yeah, I can see how it was an absolutely horrid and wrong thing to do
It also protected the Japanese-Americans from Americans. Their civil liberty rights were not trampled because of a knee jerk reaction, but for their own safety. I'm not saying what happened was a-ok, but there was definite good motivation behind it. The conditions could have definitely been a lot better from what I have heard though.
There is a huge difference between a knee-jerk reaction and careful planning to situate oneself in a higher position of power or more stable existence.
As for your Franklin quote, here's a modified version: Those who trade security for liberty wind up with neither.