... according to those statistics, at least 10% of american dialup users are metally retarded.
Then again, judging by the amount of spam/spyware doing the rounds, that's probably a lower percentage than the population of world internet users as a whole...
Gentoo should not be considered a sign of intelligent life.
Here, here!
I use FreeBSD and just didn't get into Gentoo (though I did do a stage 1 install a few years back)... why?
The names of the commands are retarded and unintuitive. "emerge foo" wtf? Sounds queer:D What's wrong with "package_install" or "pkg_install" (or even "app_install")? Same shit with redhat, debian, etc...
No, that's not the whole of it, but really, I think that sort of crap is a bigger barrier to linux adoption than anything else.
But, I digress... as noted, ability to install is not a sign of intelligent life. It's what you *do* with the O/S that's important.
No, using Gentoo (slackware/freebsd/netbsd/BarOS/etc) simply to run IRC and Mozilla does not make you elite.
An O/S is a means to an end, not the point of using a computer.
Unless you happen to be an operating system developer of course...
The amount of time you spend rooting around installing OSes totally from scratch simply to be "leet" could better be spent doing something truly productive.
Fine, use it as a learning tool, but just because you do, it doesn't mean you're clever, or that other people are idiots because they have better things to do:D
I agree with the parent - if you want to get started with Linux, start off with Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Fedora (though I don't personally like Fedora for various reasons) - your time is better spent learning how to use the applications (which are largely portable to any *NIX)... and creating stuff with them.
Ask them if they realise that most of the ISPs on the planet use it for various tasks, ranging from proxy servers, to DNS servers to authentication servers.
Or just quit and get a job somewhere where "management" listens to the suggestions made by the people who are paid to know this shit.
A hypothetical virus or other malware on a UNIX-like system can only, when it is activated by a normal user, wreak havoc inside that user's/home directory (or whatever other files the user might have access rights to). Say it deletes all those files. That sucks, but: UNIX rocks, the system keeps on running, the server-oriented security has done its work, no system files were affected, uptime is not affected. Great, halleluja, triumph for UNIX.
So guys, when was the last time you had to deal with a virus/trojan that deleted files?
Anyone?
OK, now when was the last time you had to deal with Spyware/Mass mailing worms/DOS attacks, etc?
I'd say that these days, data protection is actually a secondary concern - after all we have backups for that - hard drive failure will still kill your data.
Also, take into account that if the system can not be compromised so easily, a virus/trojan/whatever has a tougher time getting to your data in the first place.
You can get around this by, instead of spamming keywords... making a version of the site that does not require flash to get any content (shock horror).
If there's a non-flash version, google will index that, AND you won't be pissing off 99.5% of visitors who hate flash-only sites (ie, everyone bar the company's management-types, and the web developer him/herself).
Not necessarily - but if there is free tech out there that works, why waste time reinventing the wheel? Wasted time is wasted time, whether its that of a commercial developer or not. Why should we pay development costs for wasted time?
Re-use of BSD licensed code -> lower development costs -> better tested software -> better commercial software, more likelyhood of having compatible behavior with BSD licensed software. Better commercial software = more time available to work on new issues as opposed to fixing problems. More commercial development = more ideas that can be re-implemented in the free software world (like it or not, a lot of new ideas come from payware land - not all, but lots do).
Yes, someone can take BSD code and make it proprietry, however it doesn't take away the fact that the free stuff is still out there if it does what you need.
And if it doesn't shouldn't someone be paid for taking the time to extend the feature-set, if they don't want to work for free?
If commercial feature X is so damn important, then pay for it. If the free stuff is good enough, don't - or update it yourself:)
Many people (myself included) use FreeBSD (myself since 2000 or so).
Why? Here are my reasons (and note, I've been a Linux user since 1996 as well):
More consistent documentation, and more cohesive "feel". FreeBSD feels like a complete OS, not a cobbled together collection of kernel and various userpsace utilities written by entirely different people. Hard to describe, but it just "feels" more professionally done
More consistent kernel/boot messages (eg, generally "device: info", exactly formatted that way, amongst other things)
Use of manpages for everything. "info" pages suck, in my opinion
More compatible output from commands, etc than Linux. (eg, compare output of "ifconfig" on FreeBSD to Solaris/SCO and then with Linux. Compatiblity is a good thing for scripts, etc)
Better multitasking "feel". Again, hard to pin down, but boxes running FreeBSD with a system load of >5 "feel" much snappier than a Linux box under the same load, in my experience
Better seperation of "applications" and the OS. The FreeBSD "OS" is fairly minimal, and easy to install, minus packages. The OS itself is upgradable without messing with your packages (generally). EG, i can upgrade from FreeBSD 5.3 to 5.4 without reinstalling/breaking all my packages. Conversely, I can run new releases of KDE/etc without upgrading the base OS.
I prefer the BSD license
I prefer Beastie to Tux
FreeBSD is "FreeBSD". Linux could be gentoo, redhat, debian, whatever... it's less fragmented
Jails, ipfilter, ipsec (kame/raccoon way better documented than anything I found on linux with FreeSWAN - perhaps this has changed, was a few years ago).
Sure I can think of more, but those are the major points for me.
Linux has a little edge on the desktop with audio support, and less hassle installing crap like browser plugins (flash, etc - so that's of dubious "benefit" anyway:D) - but that's about it...
Just so you're aware, i'm not a "Java guy" - i fucking hate Java, and I do not code in it - so you're making wrong assumptions there.
I do not think Java is the be all and end all - my point however is that OS is becoming irrelevant - the tech to do *everything* you need in a browser is not here yet, but give it a couple of years and it will be - you can guarantee it.
That's my point - within the lifetime of Windows Vista, it will become irrelevant whether you're running MacOS, Windows or Linux or most day to day tasks...
Copy DVD to hard disk, crunch it at your leisure, burn to CDROM. Could do that with less than 32mb RAM if the application coder *had* to.
My mobile phone can play MP3s, and it has less functionality than Windows 3.1 - and I can play MP3s and do other things with Windows 98 running in 32mb of memory.
Try again:)
And next time, try to focus on the software side of things (Windowing toolkit, libraries, etc) rather than hardware requirements, as that's the point we're focusing on here;)
Slashdot Mirror
Then again, judging by the amount of spam/spyware doing the rounds, that's probably a lower percentage than the population of world internet users as a whole...
smash.
Here, here!
I use FreeBSD and just didn't get into Gentoo (though I did do a stage 1 install a few years back)... why?
The names of the commands are retarded and unintuitive. "emerge foo" wtf? Sounds queer :D What's wrong with "package_install" or "pkg_install" (or even "app_install")? Same shit with redhat, debian, etc...
No, that's not the whole of it, but really, I think that sort of crap is a bigger barrier to linux adoption than anything else.
But, I digress... as noted, ability to install is not a sign of intelligent life. It's what you *do* with the O/S that's important.
No, using Gentoo (slackware/freebsd/netbsd/BarOS/etc) simply to run IRC and Mozilla does not make you elite.
An O/S is a means to an end, not the point of using a computer.
Unless you happen to be an operating system developer of course...
The amount of time you spend rooting around installing OSes totally from scratch simply to be "leet" could better be spent doing something truly productive.
Fine, use it as a learning tool, but just because you do, it doesn't mean you're clever, or that other people are idiots because they have better things to do :D
I agree with the parent - if you want to get started with Linux, start off with Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Fedora (though I don't personally like Fedora for various reasons) - your time is better spent learning how to use the applications (which are largely portable to any *NIX)... and creating stuff with them.
smash.
fish rocks.
smash.
Game world != reality.
The sooner people "Get" this, the better.
smash.
Ask them if they realise that most of the ISPs on the planet use it for various tasks, ranging from proxy servers, to DNS servers to authentication servers.
Or just quit and get a job somewhere where "management" listens to the suggestions made by the people who are paid to know this shit.
smash.
smash.
smash.
Redhat, gentoo, debian, Alan Cox, etc all maintain their own kernel trees...
smash.
smash.
"Here's some free shit - do as you please, just credit us".
smash.
Perhaps now at last RMS will stop insisting on the "GNU/Linux" crap.
Linux vs FreeBSD? Yet another nail in the coffin for Linux for me on this one :)
smash(have run Linux for 10 years and FreeBSD for 6).
smash.
If telcos can't make money out of the bandwidth charges/guaranteed service levels involved then tough shit - change your contract.
All this bandwidth goes somewhere - to customers who are paying for it.
Sounds like somebody just wants to double-dip and charge for the same bandwidth TWICE.
smash.
Without taking into account the fuel consumed to actually manufacture said barges...
smash
Check out FreeBSD's "project evil" :)
As to the rest of the "install issues" - once you sort these out (once) you're set.
A default install of Windows 2000 doesn't see my Geforce 6600GT, Sb Audigy2 or wifi card either.... :D
smash.
So guys, when was the last time you had to deal with a virus/trojan that deleted files?
Anyone?
OK, now when was the last time you had to deal with Spyware/Mass mailing worms/DOS attacks, etc?
I'd say that these days, data protection is actually a secondary concern - after all we have backups for that - hard drive failure will still kill your data.
Also, take into account that if the system can not be compromised so easily, a virus/trojan/whatever has a tougher time getting to your data in the first place.
smash.
You can get around this by, instead of spamming keywords... making a version of the site that does not require flash to get any content (shock horror).
If there's a non-flash version, google will index that, AND you won't be pissing off 99.5% of visitors who hate flash-only sites (ie, everyone bar the company's management-types, and the web developer him/herself).
smash.
smash.
How so?
Once it's released into the public domain, if it's any good, you can be damn sure that some FTP site will keep a copy of it in one form or another :D
And if it's no good - then who cares if it goes missing?
It's not like a commercial entity can remove it from distribution when it was released by someone else...
smash.
Re-use of BSD licensed code -> lower development costs -> better tested software -> better commercial software, more likelyhood of having compatible behavior with BSD licensed software. Better commercial software = more time available to work on new issues as opposed to fixing problems. More commercial development = more ideas that can be re-implemented in the free software world (like it or not, a lot of new ideas come from payware land - not all, but lots do).
Yes, someone can take BSD code and make it proprietry, however it doesn't take away the fact that the free stuff is still out there if it does what you need.
And if it doesn't shouldn't someone be paid for taking the time to extend the feature-set, if they don't want to work for free?
If commercial feature X is so damn important, then pay for it. If the free stuff is good enough, don't - or update it yourself :)
smash.
Sheesh.... what's the reasoning behind that? Because some sissy will complain that the ball was scuffed, and that's why they missed, or something?
Don't change ball = every person has to deal with the same ball = more fair, imho. Plus, you don't end up needing 120 balls for a football game...
smash.
Why? Here are my reasons (and note, I've been a Linux user since 1996 as well):
Sure I can think of more, but those are the major points for me.
Linux has a little edge on the desktop with audio support, and less hassle installing crap like browser plugins (flash, etc - so that's of dubious "benefit" anyway :D) - but that's about it...
smash.
smash.
I do not think Java is the be all and end all - my point however is that OS is becoming irrelevant - the tech to do *everything* you need in a browser is not here yet, but give it a couple of years and it will be - you can guarantee it.
That's my point - within the lifetime of Windows Vista, it will become irrelevant whether you're running MacOS, Windows or Linux or most day to day tasks...
smash.
My mobile phone can play MP3s, and it has less functionality than Windows 3.1 - and I can play MP3s and do other things with Windows 98 running in 32mb of memory.
Try again :)
And next time, try to focus on the software side of things (Windowing toolkit, libraries, etc) rather than hardware requirements, as that's the point we're focusing on here ;)
smash.