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Linux beats Windows to Intel iMac
Ctrl+Alt+De1337 writes "The Mactel-Linux folks have now successfully booted Linux on a 17" Core Duo iMac. They used the elilo bootloader, a modified kernel, and a hacked vesafb to boot from a USB drive. No GUI pictures for now, just white text on a black background. The distro of choice was Gentoo, and instructions and patches are promised this weekend."
World's most expensive desktop linux machine
White text on a black background; that sure beats that old OSX graphical interface.
Quality Hosting e3 Servers
i wasn't aware there was a competition
I mean who didn't see this coming?
I knew it was a matter of time, and knew Linux would run on it eventually. I know it's still premature, but I can't wait to buy an Intel PowerMac (or whatever name they give it...shiver) to run Linux and OS X on. I don't have any use for Windows, but would love to have my two favorite desktop OSs on one box.
fak3r.com
Let's face it, OSX being BSD means theres already a bootloader for the Mactel that will handle Linux. Didn't take much to make the jump.
...that the TPM is not "preventing" alternate OSes from booting, as some conspiracy theorists have begun to suggest.
expect to see it in, oh, maybe five years.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
. The distro of choice was Gentoo, and instructions and patches are promised this weekend. ...when Gnome finishes compiling.
Is Microsoft planning this? Does Jobs approve of it, or will he used the DMCA to keep Microsoft of his farm?
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
New Intel computers will use the new BIOS replacement, so this work is useful for everyone. The Apple systems were just some of the first consumer machines to be released with the new BIOS.
I'm not even smart enough to get Gentoo booting off my PC!
See, because the background is black, you can store the color in a single 8-bit register instead of taking up a whole 32-bit register and it saves so much space in the L1 cache that it makes the computer go so much faster. Also, from a usability standpoint, the console is much better because it doesn't have any of those confusing buttons or hard to install mouse drivers. Just type the command and it's been done before you know it; no more waiting for the GUI to load its fancy pictures.
The worst thing is that I'm actually going to college with people that have that very same dinosaur mentality that I just spoofed. Then again, a little fancy ASM code in all of the C++ flying around really could speed things up, but I just have more of a preference towards ASM over higher level stuff.
I would like to hear from those who find this useful because I don't get the point yet.
Wow, Linux is more flexible and you can customize the installation routine! This is completely unexpected... In other breaking news, water still wet and gravity still in effect
If you want to run freeBSD on an iMac, you don't have to do anything.
All it proves is that *this particular implementation* doesn't prevent alternate OS's from booting. They could change it tomorrow if they felt like it.
Does anyone know what modifications they had to make to the kernel to get it to work?
And has anyone tried sticking in a pre-release DVD of Windows Vista, holding down the D key, and seeing what happens? As I understand it, Intel-based iMacs have mostly standard PC hardware, except for using EFI and not supporting BIOS emulation (which is why they won't run XP, but Vista is supposed to support EFI). What else has to be done?
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
This is less ignorant than the usual "OS X is FreeBSD, so you can recompile Microsoft Office for Lunix!" that we usually get, but -- no, that's not necessarily true, either that Linux should work or that Windows shouldn't.
If you have to ask, then this isn't for you. (Hint: People probably said the same thing about Linux 1.0)
http://outcampaign.org/
The answer is "because you can".
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Well, for one thing, you should be able to run VMWare/Linux to run Windows.....
A sentence you'll never see on an Internet discussion board: "You know what? You're right."
The cost involved with getting Windows to run on Mac hardware wouldn't be worth it to Microsoft. People who own Mac hardware already own OSX (or an older OS version if you're talking about old hardware). Additionally, most Mac users are pretty happy with their OS. Overall, the number of people who want to switch from OSX to Windows XP would be REALLY small. Microsoft would be much better off putting their money into development of other software.
This title is pretty misleading. How about we apply the same logic to previous Slashdot titles today: "Saitek beats MS to Bluetooth 2.1 speaker market", "Oracle Beats MS in mysql Bidding", etc. It's just silly to word it that way.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. --Winston Churchill
Well, because Apple is bound to start selling Intel-based Xserves, and they will be fine boxes to run Linux (which beats OSX Server any day).
Besides, it's nice to have Linux booting on as many platforms as possible. One just never knows when it's going to be useful...
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
I'm not bricking my new Mac trying to run linux, I just have a horrible image of waiting on the phone with Apples tech support and them going 'no its not under waranty'.
Okay, so it runs Linux now. But can it boot NetBSD yet? ;)
In Soviet Russia,
Intel beats YOU.
sorry, couldn't help myself.
"Is this just useless, or is it expensive as well?"
Main Page
Mactel-Linux is the effort to adapt the GNU/Linux operating system to Intel-based Apple Macintosh hardware.
This requires changes/additions to at least the following projects:
This site is not about Linux distributions for Intel-Macs, but about developer communication.
Status
Using elilo and a modified Linux kernel, we can boot from a USB hard disk on the 17" iMac Core Duo. We are using the hacked vesafb driver to inherit the bootloader's framebuffer, keyboard and a USB network card work. Gentoo runs and can compile the Linux kernel with a compiler that runs on linux, which was compiled in linux, on a mac running the new intel duo processors.
lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/PM/GMS/940GML and 945GT Express Memory Controller Hub (rev 03)
00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/PM/GMS/940GML and 945GT Express PCI Express Root Port (rev 03)
00:07.0 Performance counters: Intel Corporation Unknown device 27a3 (rev 03)
00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) High Definition Audio Controller (rev 02)
00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) PCI Express Port 1 (rev 02)
00:1c.1 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) PCI Express Port 2 (rev 02)
00:1d.0 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) USB UHCI #1 (rev 02)
00:1d.1 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) USB UHCI #2 (rev 02)
00:1d.2 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) USB UHCI #3 (rev 02)
00:1d.3 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) USB UHCI #4 (rev 02)
00:1d.7 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) USB2 EHCI Controller (rev 02)
00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 Mobile PCI Bridge (rev e2)
00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation 82801GBM (ICH7-M) LPC Interface Bridge (rev 02)
00:1f.1 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) IDE Controller (rev 02)
00:1f.2 SATA controller: Intel Corporation 82801GBM/GHM (ICH7 Family) Serial ATA Storage Controllers cc=AHCI (rev 02)
00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) SMBus Controller (rev 02)
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Unknown device 71c5
02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Marvell Technology Group Ltd. 88E8053 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 22)
03:00.0 Network controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM4310 UART (rev 01)
04:03.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Agere Systems FW323 (rev 61)
dmesg click if you want to see it
Instructions and Patches
Coming this weekend.
FAQ
Can I already run Linux on the iMac Core-Duo?
Not quite. The kernel boots, and you can interact with the system on the command line, but that's as much as you can do with it at the moment. If you're a developer, though, that's a starting point.
[edit]
Why Linux? OS X is so great!
Sure OS X is great. But this is fun.
[edit]
Why Linux? Why not Windows?
Windows isn't fun.
[edit]
Why not OS X on non-Apple PCs?
That's way uncool.
[edit]
The Intel-based Macs are standard PCs, aren't they?
They share many characteristics with PCs, yes. Though, their firmware is EFI, not the old 1982 PC-BIOS.
[edit]
Then what took you so long??
Macs dont cost any more than PCs that are comperably equipped in hardware, software and OS.
Stop spreading FUD
Microsoft doesn't run around posting news stories every time they get something to boot. They also don't release things they just hacked together after staying up all night drinking mountain dew to make the front page of /. Chances are MS has had prototypes of these systems in their labs being worked on before the public even knew there was an Intel Mac. Getting the kernel to boot, kinda, is nowhere near the same as releasing a version of windows that runs on a particular platform.
n.
1.
1. A distant view or prospect , especially one seen through an opening, as between rows of buildings or trees.
2. An avenue or other passage affording such a view.
2. An awareness of a range of time, events, or subjects; a broad mental view: "the deep and sweeping vistas these pioneering critics opened up" (Arthur C. Danto).
As a free bonus, may I present the fabulous Vista Cruiser!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
...it was recently announced that Linux had been ported to run on a standard wrist watch. Developer John I. Ronman stated, "This is really only a tech demo. Currently, the display only shows 18:88:88, but we are confident that not only will this allow the watch to display the time, but it will be Open Source time!"
What is mankind really? Well, it's just two words put together Mank, and ind.
Never mind. Should have RTFA.
Linux is free*. That is reason enough. *free = liberty, freedom, etc.
I can just hear it: "Oh yeah, well Gentoo can run on Mactel - just 'emerge Mac'!"
Why couldn't they have used Slackware...
This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it. - Dorothy Parker
It's sad that it's entirely possible that there's a Windows instance running on Intel Mac HW, somewhere behind closed Microsoft lab doors. OSS isn't just "open" when the source code is available for public download. The open project, the details of which are transparent and public, is another strong advantage. Particularly in the public relations arena, where the public claim is the prize, regardless of the real facts.
--
make install -not war
Of course, with Linux, comes Windows. In the form of emulating it using VMWare (which isn't supported on Mac OS X natively yet), and also with Wine (true, this isn't real Windows - but it satisfies people's needs to run some Windows programs).
This reallly makes you wonder about what sort of product they really have left. It was a serious undertaking to use their hardware with any other operating system when they used power architecture. Apple lost their identity after they dumped the Power architecture. I say that because their product has become something that was always available, BSD on Intel... At least with the Power architecture the product was something that you couldn't piece together on your own. The only similar product would have been a power based machine with YellowDog Linux on it, in which case you would still have to buy the computer from Apple. Also you could buy a $20,000 RS6000 and put Linux on it to have a Power based "desktop" similar to the G5, but you wouldn't have many applications natively built on such a system.
When apple dumped IBM they basically tossed out what made them unique! Now you can build their product on your own by order a Dell and installing openBSD. You would have to live without ITunes but you could have open software clones of almost everything else that OSX has.
No kidding.
Besides which, with the skill and numbers of Linux fanboys, I'd almost have expected Linux to beat OSX to the punch, ya know? Dollars to doughnuts that they would've, given an equal shot at it.
why?
It seems to me that the only good reason to pay those bloated prices for Apple hardware is that you get to run OS/X.
Windows doesn't run on sun hardware (sparc) either. Linux is known to run on multiple chipsets. So seriously is this news? Sounds more like the linux crowd patting itself on its back again.
Believe me, if I started murdering people, there would be none of you left.
..seem to split 50/50 down the middle between.
The ones who think that sales of Apple hardware are dependent on noone being able to run the amazing OS X operating system on any other hardware, and that apple are therefore extremely preoccupied with preventing OSX from being run on anything else..
And the ones who think that the success of OSX depends entirely on the brilliant exclusive Apple hardware it runs on, and so that Apple's major concern is stopping anyone running anything else on their great hardware.
Having never used or cared about any of this hardware or software, I really am utterly mystified as to why this is so, or what apple's 'business model' really is, except to sell loads of ipods. Anyone?
my password really is 'stinkypants'
Wake me up when they have VMware/VirtualPC/et al., running at near native speeds on this thing, with that nifty shift-control-apple key combo to switch between OSX and whatever full screen virtual machines you've got using that cool 3D cube effect...
Now, THAT, I'd like to feel happen.
A memory loaded Macbook Pro would DEFINATELY be the only computer I'd ever need when that comes through.
S-
Damn! I just got a picture in my head of someone BOOTING Linus Torvalds in the ass, so that he falls onto a MAC, and then he gets an old b/w crt screen as a reward.
Weird..... what a cruel imagination!
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
Consider this
:
1. Take one clueless Mac fanboy
2. Take one Intel Mac with Gentoo, a pretty Bootsplash picture and booting directly into something like ratpoison.
3. Point out to the Mac fanboy that he is looking at MacOS 10.5 of which you have secured a sneak preview copy.
4. Point out to the Mac fanboy that there is no mouse attached to your Mac.
5. Point out to the Mac fanboy that this is because Apple is taking simplicity to a new level with the "0 Button Mouse approach (tm)".
6. Tell the Mac fanboy to have some fun while you put the kettle on.
7. Leave the room.
8. Watch in secret as the Mac Fanboy suffers a complete breakdown. It really is quite funny. The panic in their eyes. The droplets of sweat forming on their foreheads. The spasms in their right arm as they keep reaching for the mouse. The tears. And the scream, the scream is really beautiful. No two ever scream alike.
Hey genius, it never occured to you that some people prefer Linux? Some of those people also like Apple hardware.
Not everone has wet dreams about OSX.
From Apple's website, 1002:71c5 *might* be the Radeon X1600. (This is the PCI vendor:device ID for the video chip.) An ATI Radeon X1800 is 1002:7109, but ATI doesn't always number their devices in any reasonable way.
The ATI linux driver should support it ... let's wait 'til the weekend and see if they get the graphics driver working. Should be SWEET!
(drums fingers impatiently...I'm at work)
and has a pretty little flower-bed of white gardenias!
..why does Linux exist?
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Couldn't this just be darwin acting like gentoo??
Cliff Claven
K.E.G. Party Chairman
Founding Leader of: Koncerned for Egalitarin Governance
"You're not hardcore unless you shave with a rock."
... with your fingers!
Wuss. You're not hardcore unless you pluck the whiskers out individually
Yawn. Now getting OS/2 Warp or Deskview/X to run on that Mac, THAT would be impressive...
Cheney shot a lawyer?
There won't be one. We're kind of hoping he starts a trend.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
MacOS X uses the Mach Kernel, so the initial booting environment is completely different from FreeBSD. You are getting way to hung up on the "MacOS X uses FreeBSD" thing.
I'm looking at the dmesg listing, and it runs through EFI first...
But then it identifies and runs through the standard ACPI listing. Processors identified, power states, the works.
Not to say you aren't right about needing to throttle the processor, but Apple made it a little easier by using ACPI instead of reinventing the wheel...
What a painfully long and boring attempt at humor.
Enjoy.
x _running_on_an_intel_imac.html
http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2006/02/linu
Probably did, but it wasn't old enough to be drafted, NT is ;).
This is useless... can't view real pron without a graphical UI.
Because the iMac hardware is slick, and I want to use Windows. I suppose it'll probably be Vista, maybe using an open source bootloader to do the dirty work.
All these "why would you do that" posts in almost panicked unison from the Mac faithful make me laugh. As if MasOS was a selling point. Every Mac in this office is running Linux. The PCs are either Windows or Linux. MacOS was the reason I DIDN'T buy a Mac. Yet.
If Apple would offer an iMac with Windows preinstalled as an option, I know several folks just in this office who would jump on it.
Get over it people.
1. Claim Linux is just copying Windows, and/or lagging behind. "Linux is not innovative," they say. "Linux does not support hardware." That claim just went out the window.
2. Downplay the importance of Apple's offering. "You have to use Windows to be productive, and Windows won't run on Apple hardware." Well, everything else will. At least, it will now, as the EFI driver is now actively developed in the open source community.
Windows on a mac? That's just expensive hardware. +5 Insightful
Linux on a mac? That's just expensive hardware. -1 Troll
But I thought Gentoo was only for ricers? Obviously Gentoo is the superior flavor.
Freedom of choice.
Georg
XP has been working on Core Duo Apples for a while. Slashdot just didn't accept the story.
- dual-boot-solution/
http://www.paulstamatiou.com/2006/01/29/mactel-xp
I wonder if someone will/could develop an OSOSOS (ah.. thats open source operating system operating system.. oper.. oh.. nm). A low level platform that translates the various OS calls to whatever hardware? is that a ridiculous suggestion?
It's inevitable that all three operating systems will co exist peacefully on the same hardware, and I wish the manufacturers (ok I wish apple) would just play ball, but seeing as this doesn't seem to happen...
It's really the interface & the software I use various OS's for & the interface *should* be completely customisable and run on the top of the OS (I mean its a small enough foot print anyway & The kind of customisation I would like leaves me to want for linux, but then unable to use the software I require to utilise that customisation)
So that leaves the OS to deal with hardware, file management etc which should *really* be cross platform. Can anyone tell me what the actual difficultes encountered when getting OSX running on IntelPCs or Linux/Windows running on IntelMacs?
Rich Gentlemen Hide - The Existential Comic
"Macs dont cost any more than PCs that are comperably equipped in hardware, software and OS."
BS. I can go to HP and get the same hardware as an Intel iMac for less without even trying hard.
Vote for Pedro
Has anybody considered that Microsoft probably has already "ported" Vista to the MacIntel Developer platform. It's probably running without problems since months, but one can imagine various good reasons why Microsoft didn't issue a press release on that, yet.
Georg
Apple is perfectly happy to let you buy a Mac and run Linux or Windows or whatever on it. They won't support you, but it doesn't matter to them, you paid for the hardware and the included OS-X license, that's all they really care about.
The real idea behind that kind of thing is twofold:
1) To stop OS-X from running on non-Mac hardware. With each release of OS-X they modify it to break the workaround people have found, and a new one has to be developed. Apple does NOT want OS-X running on non-Apple hardware.
2) For all the up and comming DRM horseshit that the media companies are pushing. Both Apple and MS are getting on board with this. I suppose I can't really blame them since the alternative is that people simply won't be able to watch things like HD-DVD (the license of the decryption routines requires all this rights management crap).
So no, I don't expect Apple to do anything to stop Windows from running on their hardware. That's nothing but good for them as it might encourage people to buy more Macs, and certianly won't hurt sales.
13:37 of course.
Most Linux/Unix users don't want a software lock in. OS X may be polished, but it's a gigantic lock in. The Mac libraries don't exists on Unix systems so the programs is not "just a recompile away" that we are so accustomed to with Unix. Thats a major turd to bite for an Linux/BSD/Unix user.
Maybe if Apple released the Coocoa libraries as open source or helped gnustep get up to speed we may reconsider. But until that it's Linux/BSD/Unix all the way.
Why does anyone want to take a step back from a polished, finished OS?
Mac OS X is a hack of components all over the place just like Linux, the difference is no Linux user is ashamed of that fact and we see it as a strength while you see it as something to hide under the pillow. Making statements to Linux users that the OS they know and love isn't any good and unfinished is a sure way to win them over to your side. Especially since OS X is basically the same thing + a big lock in in proprietary technologies we don't want anyway.
In the end, this will come down to the "because we can" factor.
No it does not, you just don't understand why we love Linux/BSD/Unix and why Desktop Mac OS X doesn't fit at all with the other Unixes. We love Unix because of the diversityand choices you can make, but still use the same programs. Desktop Mac OS X just isn't anymore Unix than Windows XP is.
Someone better let Dvorak know... He may want to update his article: "Will Apple Adopt Windows^H^H^H^H^H^H^HLinux?"
Why on earth would you use Linux when you have a commercially supported Unix desktop already?
OSX is great in my opinion.
I believe this was really this is a waste of time.
Atleast, its nice to hear linux beat Windows to the chase. Linux can run on anything!
"If a show of teeth is not enough, bite
Or, conversely stated, Apple hardware ist the most expensive dongle in the world
(but hey, a nice looking dongle, so I bought one anyway
Georg
Is it just me, or does anyone not remember when they were able to boot XP on an Intel Mac Tower months ago?...might have even been last summer. The only problem they had was display drivers, as that particular Mac had a propritary NVidia video card... It would only display at base resolution.
No, OS X uses the xnu kernel. Xnu may be based on mach, but it sure as hell ain't mach anymore!
*money = capitalism, efficient allocation of resources, riches for all, freedom, liberty, anything money can buy
"The White House is not an intelligence-gathering agency," -- Scott McClellan, Whitehouse spokesman.
here come all those exploits...
Reasonably, the purpose of open-source is for software to be designed without being minded on the specifications and flaws in any given platform; the software is to be moved about and improved wherever needed by the holder, without regard to to the details of the host. Does XFree86 need x86, or Mac OSX need Aqua, or Windows 3.11 need MS-DOS 5, OpenGL require a Irix host? What is the application doing that requires a specific operating system, and why the developers don't provide two optimization paths where one takes use of the operating system and environments native/proprietary functions and another path that is universal/provided with the application?
Everyone wants Internet Explorer 5, not Internet Explorer 6 or 7 or 8 or whatever Microsoft has moved its version upto. When an operating system has flaws or an upgrade path that disregards a users' intent to use a software, then it is obvious there is a effect remeniscent of a monopoly. Software on the choice operating system is the truth, but the reality is there is an incorporated layer of crap; we'll call that layer of crap an emulator.
And likewise, Darwin may be based on BSD, but it sure as hell ain't BSD anymore.
Anyone who wants to legally have a test machine for 99% of the market wants an intel mac. Developers and QA guys want to boot OS X / Windows / Linux / FreeBeerSD.
But, yet again, Steve's megalomania keeps a good product from being a great one. Leaving out the BIOS compatibility layer (or even an option to easily turn it on) is just petty.
Yes, it's different, but at least on PPC the OpenFirmware can load ELFs without any modification. What it does on the Mac is to load a bootloader (BootX) that will load the XNU kernel (which isn't ELF, but Mach-O).
I'm not sure about the EFI used in Intel-Macs, but maybe it can also load ELFs by itself... It'd be interesting to find out how the boot process was modified.
the glaring lack of disclosure of the tpm implementation, and worse, that it's shipping enabled. ALL other vendors follow the fair and open best practices as recommended by the trusted computing group.
this proves that it's possible to boot other os, yes, and indeed that's a good thing. it does not mean that there has been full disclosure of apple's tpm implementation, nor does it mitigate the potential privacy exposure of a tpm that's shipping enabled.
tin hats are not required to see that this needs rectification.
if I claimed I was emperor just because some watery tart lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away!
Compiling, of course.
Trusted Computing - if the industry had their way, you would have to swipe your credit card everytime you activated your PC keyboard.
Intel Duo Crap - AMD 64 x2 Rules...
I just hope AMD comes out with their Quad 64 faster than they say they will...
how hard can it be to link two dual core chips to make one four way CPU?
Boost the cache and stop slowing the chip down with these little 512k cache setups...
I was simplifying for the sake of brevity. My point was there is a base to start from already.
"Electric shaver?! Ha! What are you, a chick? You're not hardcore unless you shave with a rock."
...ehh, not so much.
Oddly enough though, people who use rocks for deodorant
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
What you see is white text on a black background plus the reflection of the on-camera flash?!
They know how to make Linux boot on a new Inel Mac, yet appears[1] blisfully unaware that you should turn the flash off when photographing self-illuminating subjects. Doubly so when the subject is highly reflective as well. I'm sorry, but I find that fairly amusing.
[1] There is such a thing as a digicam without the option to turn the automatic flash off. Yet which self respecting geek would be seen with such a lame excuse for a gadget?
You mean once someone decides to actually do something with it.
We don't actually know for sure that Windows hasn't booted yet on an Apple. It's a pretty safe bet that somebody at Microsoft has been taking more than just a look at the new machines too.
silly putty beat square peg fitting in round hole.
of course linux got there first. it so much easier to modyfy software is you have the source...
"Greenman"!? WTF, I meant, "Greenspan", of course. :)
Also I see those were not "hypothetical" moderations, sorry. They linked to actual posts. However if one looks at the current moderations one sees the "hypocrisy" point crumble to dust anyway:
"Windows on a mac? That's just expensive hardware.":
40% Insightful, 30% Flamebait, 20% Troll
"Linux on a mac? That's just expensive hardware":
30% Troll, 30% Insightful, 20% Overrated
Where's the hypocrisy now? Those look like fairly equivalent moderations to me.
The only thing holding GNUstep back is themselves, not Apple. The developers have decided to focus on creating an elegant software programming environment, forgotting to make it easy to install their libraries and the apps that use them.
They're so close, yet, so far.
All these people are crazy about getting Windows or Linux running on Mac hardware, but I'd much rather see OS X running on my regular old Intel hardware. It's a shame to see something like OS X being replace with something KDE. (Much worse just a terminal, but that will no doubt progress).
That's what I was thinking too--Of course Linux will "beat windows to the Intel iMac", because even if Microsoft already had it working they would keep it under wraps until they had their whole marketing thing going...
But does it make business sense for MS to ever step in this direction? Could they make it and sell it without being somehow sued by Apple?
We have to consider the possibility that Microsoft isn't even "competing" in this silly implied competition, and the idea of "Linux Beats MS" in this sense is just empty feel-good stuff for the tux afficionados.
What about VirtualPC for Mac?
-Patrick
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
But in order to obtain a Mac system, don't you have to license the OS?
-Patrick
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
Your not hard core unless you shave with fire.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Hell the OS under the hood is technically Darwin not BSD, it's just somewhat based on BSD.
One reason to run another OS on Mac HW is to better understand OSX. Another is to better understand one's own OS. Another is to use the quality Mac HW with an OS that runs one's preferred apps. And another is to have an OS that can compete with OSX for Mac HW clone makers - not just consumers of that HW, Mac or otherwise.
And those are just a few reasons to do so in the lab. There are others, before the value of selling one's OS on that HW is even relevant.
The first few reasons I mentioned are exactly the kinds of things that drive Linux hackers, even if the last is much more interesting to Microsoft. But it's always valuable to explore one's competitors, especially on their home turf.
--
make install -not war
or the mac crowd is starting to considering that hacking a mac is like gay porn, it's quite amusing how slashdot has turned from pro-penguin/pro-bsd to pro-mac . However everybody knows that for demanding server task and console OSX is horribly slow when compared to penguin-98 and even bsd. However you can't win against the world domination of the penguin muhahahahaha
MacOS uses the Xnu kernel, which is a different thing from the Mach kernel AND the FreeBSD kernel - it's an amalgam of the two. More info at Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT_Startup_Pr ocess
I wish there was a "Who Cares" mod. I would use that one here. :)
"..efficient allocation of resources,""
snicker
"riches for all,"
haha
" freedom,"
HAHA
"liberty"
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
oh man, I'll be laughing about your post all day.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I told you so.
And Linux has facilities to control SpeedStep.
However, the laptop cooling system design that does not let a CPU running at 100% load, 100% clockspeed, 100% voltage run for long is a BAD cooling design.
A laptop cooling system should be able to keep a CPU running at the full clockspeed with 100% CPU load within it's safe temperature range, and preferably keep the bottom of the laptop cool.
Don't laugh, it may beat Vista to them :P
They used the elilo bootloader
So it's called elilo, as in Lilo & Stitch, and it lets you tarnish the image of Apple's precious hardware with a desktop environment that hasn't been vetted by professional usability experts? Some might think that Apple and Disney, two companies in which Steve Jobs holds the plurality stake, might gang-rape these people in court.
Run OS X on this box!? This is a successful step in creating a Linux based mac... Which may or may not have any purpose. But I've been running a dual boot with OS X on my PC for a few months now. As far as I understand it (and as to how much I DO understand.... I don't know) The OS X runs by first installing a Linux shell, and then installing over that. Now that we have achieved a primitive form of Linux... We could get that sweet OS X happening on some underpowered boxen!
Right?
Right!
needs to get ReactOS running on intel macs after their code audit is done.
Currently it will not run on OSX86. Besides, you'd never want to if you would, else it would be running under Rosetta, emulating PPC code to emulate Intel code.
Microsoft is supposedly working on an Intel-native version, as is VMWare, but neither have surfaced yet.
A sentence you'll never see on an Internet discussion board: "You know what? You're right."
"there ain't no competition cause we all da best heyar"
"I DARE you to make less sense!"
And I thought I was alone...
I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Horror/Sci Fi writer Stephen King was found dead in his Maine home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon.
Sure the driver might support it, but wouldn't you want to actually run Xorg?
Shift happens. Fire it up.
Did you notice that nearly all "badnesses" after that are in the ACPI section. I somehow have doubts that this acpi interpreter will be useable. At best it will require a special module to take care of all the quirks. If it will be useable, the table for the throttling states is there so speedstep may in fact work. Dunno. It looks pretty ugly at this point.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
You do realize that one can easily compile most Unix programs on Mac OS X, don't you? Since when did the definition of 'Unix' become "runs an open-source window manager by default"?
hda: cdrom_pc_intr: The drive appears confused (ireason = 0x01)
:-)
I wonder what the 0x01 things is, I want some
j/k
YOU ARE ALL GREAT! I LOVE YOU! (Now think of boobies! Mmmm... boobies!)
Lol. Stupid retards... they did not even read the second paragraph of my parent post but simply assumed i hate linus and rated it "flamebait". Stuuuuu-huuuuupid reeeetards they are...! Never read this paragraph! Hahahahahaha!
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
A while back, I read that the BIOS on a wintel box is only really used in Windows' booting process, and that lacking the BIOS doesn't stop the EFI Intel Macs from running Windows as much as it stops them from booting Windows (and thus getting to the running part).
If this is true (is it?), couldn't Linux be used as an intermediate step to getting Windows running?
"It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
So great, you can run a UNIX like operating system on a Mac. I already do!
You do know that Gnucash will run on OSX, right? Fink ported it.
"It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
Am I the only one that is less excited about the Linux part than about the fact that the Intel Macs can apparently boot from USB drives? Up until now Macs have only been capable of booting from Firewire drives, something about the USB bus getting reset during the boot process. This means it will eventually be possible to carry around a single USB drive from which you can boot your choice of Windows, Linux or Mac OS X on any available computer hardware that supports booting from USB, whether it's a "PC" or a Mac. This is very cool.
But maybe I'm the only one crazy enough to imagine having a drive with bootable partitions of Windows, Linux, "LinuxIntelMac", LinuxPPC, and Mac OS X, and being able to carry around my entire computing environment without carrying any computer hardware with me. Put it on a 2.5" notebook drive in a small USB 2.0/Firewire drive enclosure and it will fit in a shirt pocket. Notebook drives go up to 120GB and 7200rpm these days too, so it's not like it would be slow. Wherever you go, you're home. I've even seen some drive enclosures with integrated fingerprint readers. The whole disk is encrypted so you wouldn't have to worry about losing information if it's stolen. Keep an identical drive in a computer at home and you can probably even keep a backup of the entire multi-OS drive with something like dd.
Someday I'm going to actually turn this from a pipe dream into a reality, just you wait.
Agree 100%. Also the dock is an absolute useability nightmare.
Not only that, but I personally hate the look and feel of Aqua. It's way too bubbly and distracting for me.
I actually prefer KDE with Plastik to Aqua.
In fact, the inability to natively change the theme in OSX is what keeps me *off* of Macs.
lilo was around far before that film.
The fact that Collodi's novel The Adventures of Pinocchio was out half a century before Disney adapted it to film didn't stop Disney from getting, say, a trademark on PINOCCHIO for dolls.
Please, don't verb your nouns. If not for our sake, then to avoid making yourself look like a moron.
Almost 8k for a system that creates the LPAR's and Micro partions for the pSeries boxes.
/proc/cpuinfo
/proc/partitions
/proc/meminfo
And its just a xseries box. (2 way, 1024MB, 1 IDE drive, and a DVD RW)
Check it:
uname -a
Linux hmcmast 2.4.21-0-default #1 Wed Aug 17 17:49:52 UTC 2005 i686 unknown
cat
processor : 0
model name : Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 2.00GHz
cpu MHz : 1993.882
processor : 1
model name : Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 2.00GHz
cpu MHz : 1993.882
cat
22 0 78156288 hdc
cat
MemTotal: 1031656 kB
Shapeshifter.
;)
Unsanity makes some other pretty cool stuff, too.
Welcome back into the fold
http://www.research.ibm.com/WearableComputing/Soul Pad/soulpad.html
"The Mac libraries don't exists on Unix systems so the programs is not "just a recompile away" that we are so accustomed to with Unix."
Not a problem.
The X11 SDK comes on the Mac OS X install disk.
I am very sure Vista(tm) can be run under a Virtual Machine, just like XP or 98 (which runs smoothest in Virtual PC (vmware is another example). I am also very convinced os X can be running under such Virtual Machine. Everything is possible with emulation, only, you've got to pay a small price, a price of performance...
... When I started programming I had to be carefully get everything on a 360k floppy, program and data files together. If I wanted a OS I'd have to swap floppies or add a B: drive. The 720k floppy's where just coming out so I was saving for a 2x size floppy drive. The next upgrade was a 20mb drive ...
... The PC evolution has exploded in all kinds of directions; as well upwards in technology and prices as downwards in quality and programming; just like all consumer devices these times...
... I sincerely hope the same does not happen with the universal binaries and os X; I just started to work with it, after +15yrs of working with PC, grew up with OS2 v2+ and warp, DOS, GEM, cp/m, Windows v2+, Windows v3+ and trumpet netsock which was a emulator(?), ... I have finally found something which is not such a burden to maintain that hard and which just works: a Powerbook 15" with os X!
...
This emulator has to translate a lot of things like memory, cpu, disks, mouse, keyboard, com ports, network card, usb devices (plug 'n pray), printer and low system (bios) calls to the underlying OS which takes a lot of CPU power and memory usage.
If this would be still running that fast on that nice mactel; I do not know...
I am very sure a virtual machine will run os X on PC and Vista on the mactel platform; only the task to run it natively without emulating too much is a pain ful cruisade (sometimes)...
oOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO oOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO
Life is like a box of chocolates, You never know what you gonna get! right?
As there is a lot more to use of a human brain than currently used by the majorty; the cpu is also not used as it should be used and in most cases even overused; most stuff is programmed (very) bloated; like Windows itself, like Vista be very good in the beginning, slow (& more bloated) in the middle and bad in the end (ready to reinstall); unless you very carefully pick your applications and don't change too much than needed upgrades (like with linux: when it's running, keep it running!)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With Windows I learned to not to go strange with your os;
- Get rid of Internet explorer *immediately*! get Firefox or any alternative before your pc crawls
- if you got a good graphics * editor or messenger(tm) client ; stay with it and don't install 20 others to "try";
- Get a good Virusscanner, a free one like AVG or payware like F-secure Antivirus.
- If you want to get a good program you got to look at the size too, a smaller footprint can mean a smaller utilisation of memory and system usage; for a virusscanner or anti spyware utility this can be very vital!
- I repaired lots of them pc's's and it's all because of these virus/spyware/strange-installed things!
- which comes to : be sure to know what you install, verify the source a/o file (bbs 2400 baud world was hard sometimes!)
- Get rid of Outlook and Messenger, go to Trillian or alike
- Do not open files
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
The more relevant issue here (for Linux on Intel iMacs) is that Linux already has support for Apple's BIOS-substitute, because it has supported Apple hardware since before OS X started shipping. Windows hasn't and doesn't, so getting it to run on Apple hardware will be harder (than doing the same with Linux), even with the Intel CPUs. Basically, Linux already runs on Apple hardware with PPC processors, and it already runs on Intel processors, so getting it to run on Apple hardware with Intel processors is a matter of messing with compilation options and junk, maybe fixing up some make files and whatnot, shouldn't require really any new code.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
> Besides, it's nice to have Linux booting on as many platforms as possible. One just
> never knows when it's going to be useful...
In particular, I'd be quite leary of buying a particular hardware if Knoppix won't run on it. That little gem has saved my bacon more times than I care to recount.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
OK, wiseguy, then why do people want to run Windows on an iMac? Because it seems you can't.
Umm, OP didn't mention FreeBSD once.
... enough said with the headline ;)
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
The competition was over before it began based on the simple fact that we can modify the source for Linux. With non-modifiable OS's such as Windows making modifications to play nice with different hardware can be extremely challenging and illegal - see DMCA.
/2cents
Proof by very large bribes. QED.
Well, you list a few smaller items, there are lots more. I'd collected about a hundred different problems that I noticed over time before I stopped. Some that come to mind are:
-- green button does something unpredictable
-- bindings of files to applications change haphazardly and incomprehensibly
-- there's no built-in mechanism for fixing unwanted file associations
-- can't drag file items from dock
-- application menus make menu tools disappear
-- applications are inconsistent in what they do when the last window closes
-- key binding mechanisms are inconsistent between Carbon, Cocoa
-- desktop links don't work from the shell
-- MS Office uses ":" as path separator in dialog boxes
-- X11 claims to use Mac keybindings but doesn't
-- X11 doesn't support RANDR
-- You can select "use SSL" in Mail.app, but it doesn't work; it does TLS instead
At this point, Gnome and KDE are far more consistent than the OS X GUI. That's not to say that the OS X GUI is bad--it's one of the better GUIs around, but it is hardly the best, most consistent, and/or most advanced GUI around.
OS X is based on Mach with a BSD emulation layer on top of it, some BSD command line tools, and NeXTStep libraries.
Furthermore, the point of running BSD or Linux on the Mac is to get rid of a lot of the bloat that Apple has added, and instead run a pure, consistent X11 desktop; less is more in this case.
Of course, you've been able to do this for years. Linus himself hacks Linux on a Powermac these days. (I doubt anybody can be called a "Mac-head" who doesn't have any PPC Macs.)