Eh, no, they shouldn't be exempt. Heck, charge the managers. But don't screw over the people who are many times removed from the purchase of stock. And yes, that average Joe on Ebay should check, and if he can't afford to check, he should either demand the government form some sort of regulatory body, or not invest. The government could create an opt in program whereby corporations would allow massive crawl up your ass with a microscope oversight in exchange for true limited liability. If you don't want the microscope treatment, you don't get the limited liability and investors know going in they are on the hook.
Face it, limited liability creates a strong moral hazard. We can argue about the appropriate methods for removing or reducing that hazard, but I'm not really open to discussing whether or not the hazard exists, any more than I am open to discussing whether the Earth is flat or not. The Earth is flat and limited liability creates an incredible moral hazard. I say do away with limited liability altogether. If you invest in a company, you are part owner and responsible for the crimes committed in your name. I'm sick and tired of investors raking in profits from criminal activities.
The first big day for this movement was Tax Day, April 15. And organizers had a gimmick. They asked people to send a tea bag to the Oval Office. One of the exhortations was “Tea Bag the Fools in D.C.” A protester was spotted with a sign saying, “Tea Bag the Liberal Dems Before They Tea Bag You.” So, conservatives started it: started with this terminology. But others ran with it and ran with it.
Wrong. Now that teabaggers know what the term means, they call themselves tea partiers. But back in the day, they carried teabags around and called themselves teabaggers.
Here's an article backing up that fact, but I warn you, it is from that den of liberal iniquity, Billy Buckley's The National Review, so take it with the grain of salt that any reading of The National Review requires.
Uh, there is a HUGE fight ongoing at dkos between the Obamabots and the haters, as they refer to each other. It's hilarious. All the real liberals are pissed as fuck at Obama, because he's a conservative in lib clothing, and we all see that now. But on dkos, we see the equivalent of the Bushtards who approved of the dolt until the end. They can not own up to the fact that they were scammed, and so they will defend Obama to the death even as he bends them over the fence for his corporate masters.
I saw participants referring to themselves as teabaggers in the beginning, and the idiotic right wing commentators at Faux News picked it up and ran with it before they figured out what it meant. Which is hilarious because the initial Tea Party events were sponsored by Faux News.
Ad hominem means 'to the man.' Which man was attacked? Look, it is not our fault that those fucking idiots chose a name that means something dirty. The fact that they chose such a name just fits the pattern of sub-par intelligence and lack of research or original thinking we see coming from that particular lunatic fringe. If the teabaggers want respect, they need to do something to earn it. I'm not going to kiss your ass and call you a genius if you assert nonsense like 'Obama wants to kill my granny!' or 'He is a Muslin, born in Kenya!' or 'deregulating businesses serves the interests of the working man.'
Congress would need to pass the law, the judges would need to sentence breaches of the law, and we would need to fund a police force dedicated to investigating it. As nobody but the state can seek the death penalty for humans, I think it is fair to do the same for corporations. But anyone can call a tip line and let the police know that someone is engaged in criminal activity. Not every corporate crime should lead to a death penalty, but at a minimum, if someone dies as a result of corporate malfeasance, it should be a possibility.
No, fucking nuke them from orbit, its the only way to be sure. Unleash unholy hell on any company that commits a crime. I mean end of days, Armageddon type over the top punitive cruel and unusual punishment. Make everyone even a little bit involved so fucking scared that they take a little personal responsibility the next time they look for a job, a supplier, or an investment, and they decide "Hey, doing business with organized crime does not pay, I'll look elsewhere rather than go through THAT again."
Right now, you can invest in organized crime, make a killing off of the criminal activity, and suffer absolutely no consequences when the criminal activity is discovered. That constitutes a pretty serious moral hazard. I say we excise that cancerous moral hazard with fire, and lots of it.
The nice thing is that the citizens of the whole fucking world are so fed up with corporate crime, this sort of thing actually stands a chance of becoming law.
You missed the part where I said 'carve it up and sell off the parts,' didn't you? The employees and customers go to the purchaser. How about you learn some fucking reading comprehension?
Imagine how your idiotic proposal would work if applied to the mob. Punish the bad actors at the mob, but not the people who buy the drugs and guns? Punish the murderers, but not the numbers runners and bookies? You see, we are talking about organized crime here. Punish everyone even peripherally involved, to teach them to take a little personal responsibility in their lives. You invest in the mob, you go to jail. You work for the mob, you go to jail. You buy from the mob, you go to jail. Criminals are criminals, end of fucking story.
Corporations can only run things because citizens are indifferent. We are ultimately in charge, this system we are part of is not something controlling us from the outside. We control the system, although we abdicate control much of the time.
You give the fields of public relations and image management short shrift. They exist primarily to make the problems you outline disappear.
D - The likelihood we can pay someone to cover this up in the short term, which is all that seems to matter to corporate officers anyhow, is pretty high.
E - History shows that damage to a corporate reputation can be easily managed. It does not asymptotically approach infinity, as the Ford Pinto clearly demonstrates. Does anyone today refrain from buying Ford because the Pinto killed people? I think not.
F - It is much cheaper to simply lie copiously through advertising and PR to generate that goodwill. After all, it isn't about the truth, but perception. Perceptions can be bought.
In ten years, Dell will still be around but your memory of this incident won't be. You will most likely be buying Dell again.
Toyota will very likely survive and thrive again?!? They are thriving right now, they are the largest in terms of sales and production. Even BP isn't going to go under without help. Hell, what would a boycott of BP do? They still own the oil, which is only going to become more valuable over time. Oil underground is money in the bank, it even collects interest. BP isn't going anywhere, this will barely be a blip on the balance sheets in twenty years.
You see, all corporations suck to some extent. And people have busy lives. They don't remember the fact that some big faceless corporation screwed them over, that is a non event because it happens all the time. You live with it. You forget. When Exxon and Mobile merged, did they drop the Exxon part of the name because of the Exxon Valdez spill? Of course not, and ExxonMobile is doing just peachy.
I'd love to live in a world like the one you imagine, where fairness and justice just happen, because everyone does their part to stand up to evil. It would be a better world than this one.
How exactly do you send a corporation to maximum security prison?
You don't, you give it the death penalty. Carve it up and sell the parts to the highest bidder. Confiscate all bonuses from the corporate officers involved in the decision, use the proceeds from the sale and bonuses to pay off any 401(k) retirement plans invested in the company. Let the other shareholders eat the loss as a warning to perform better due diligence and not invest in criminal organizations. After all, if you invested in the mob and they got busted, you wouldn't get your money back, right? Organized crime is organized crime, it doesn't matter if the leader of one organization graduated from Yale and the other graduated from jail. If a corporation engages in criminal behavior, kill it with extreme prejudice and make all responsible suffer. If investors get burned a few times, they will make it a point to only invest in socially responsible, ethical companies.
Derp. Learn some physics. Heck, teach yourself what the scientific method actually does. If 3D objects can interact with a 2D universe, then dimensionality doesn't matter. We can understand them and come up with a comprehensive theory, because we can see the effects. In fact, some current theories treat any volume of our 3D universe as a 2 dimensional plane wrapped into a sphere enclosing that arbitrary 3d volume. Anything that happens inside the 3D sphere is completely described by entities on the boundary plane.
In short, if it happens within my sphere of perception, it isn't magic and I can understand it. The idea that an advanced civilization can not understand these midichlorians is simply ludicrous, but that is okay, because Star Wars is not science fiction, it is science fantasy. Internal consistency has never been a big issue in the Star Wars universe, and any attempts to argue for some sort of internal consistency will only come from silly fan boys who don't understand the difference between fantasy and science.
Kids are only coercive and manipulative when they've been indoctrinated into hierarchical thinking. In (very rare, isolated) non hierarchical societies, where kids are not beaten regularly, don't have their genitals mutilated, are held until they don't want to be anymore, and never sleep alone, they do not rebel and do what adults want them to without being beaten into it. Think about it, what is the evolutionary advantage of untrained, unskilled young humans rebelling against the wishes of their elders? Nothing. However, when a child finds itself in an environment where every natural and innate expectation goes unmet, it then has reason to rebel.
I'm not saying that everyone should raise their kids according to The Continuum Concept with family bed and carrying baby around everywhere. In Western society, hierarchical structures are everywhere and unavoidable, and even if you do it perfectly, it probably won't work. Unless you form some sort of cult with like minded folks and isolate your kids from 'evil western influences,' but that approach has a pretty poor track record too. However, if you lay the groundwork of trust early, your kids will be more likely to accept your reasoning without rebelling later.
The explanation is bullshit. We are supposed to believe that this blaster having, light speed exceeding, strong AI using galactic society can not figure out and duplicate the 'quirk of physics' embodied in midichlorians? The explanation is magical precisely because it can not be duplicated or even explained technologically by a sufficiently advanced civilization.
Movies do not cost that much to shoot. Explosions, hot famous actors and actresses, and anthropomorphic CGI animals cost that much to shoot. I know most people nowadays think the one is synonymous with the others, but that is not necessarily the case.
The survey has been complete for months. And major wartime funding has been up for renewal. It wasn't renewed. Then the report was released, and now a bunch of representatives are asking themselves, "Who gets the development contracts?" Welcome to realpolitik.
Then why not recognize when they meet that standard by documenting and mapping Russian preliminary findings and PUBLISHING the information and providing it to the Afghans?
Why the sinister suggestions of evil intent?
Because congress just turned down a military request for more funds for the first time in decades. This report has been ready for ages, the military has been saving it for just such an occasion. The idea being, every representative will be thinking, who gets the contracts to develop? Someone from my state, or another state? The military gets a big say in this: this company can perform work in a war zone, this one isn't capable, and so on. So, it isn't so much a sinister suggestion of evil intent as glaring example of realpolitik in action.
Slashdot Mirror
Eh, no, they shouldn't be exempt. Heck, charge the managers. But don't screw over the people who are many times removed from the purchase of stock. And yes, that average Joe on Ebay should check, and if he can't afford to check, he should either demand the government form some sort of regulatory body, or not invest. The government could create an opt in program whereby corporations would allow massive crawl up your ass with a microscope oversight in exchange for true limited liability. If you don't want the microscope treatment, you don't get the limited liability and investors know going in they are on the hook.
Face it, limited liability creates a strong moral hazard. We can argue about the appropriate methods for removing or reducing that hazard, but I'm not really open to discussing whether or not the hazard exists, any more than I am open to discussing whether the Earth is flat or not. The Earth is flat and limited liability creates an incredible moral hazard. I say do away with limited liability altogether. If you invest in a company, you are part owner and responsible for the crimes committed in your name. I'm sick and tired of investors raking in profits from criminal activities.
Wrong.
The first big day for this movement was Tax Day, April 15. And organizers had a gimmick. They asked people to send a tea bag to the Oval Office. One of the exhortations was “Tea Bag the Fools in D.C.” A protester was spotted with a sign saying, “Tea Bag the Liberal Dems Before They Tea Bag You.” So, conservatives started it: started with this terminology. But others ran with it and ran with it.
--
http://nrd.nationalreview.com/article/?q=Mjk1YmRjNzIxNmUwMTI0ZWYxZWU4OWU2MzFiOWJmNDE=
Wrong. Now that teabaggers know what the term means, they call themselves tea partiers. But back in the day, they carried teabags around and called themselves teabaggers.
Here's an article backing up that fact, but I warn you, it is from that den of liberal iniquity, Billy Buckley's The National Review, so take it with the grain of salt that any reading of The National Review requires.
http://nrd.nationalreview.com/article/?q=Mjk1YmRjNzIxNmUwMTI0ZWYxZWU4OWU2MzFiOWJmNDE=
Uh, there is a HUGE fight ongoing at dkos between the Obamabots and the haters, as they refer to each other. It's hilarious. All the real liberals are pissed as fuck at Obama, because he's a conservative in lib clothing, and we all see that now. But on dkos, we see the equivalent of the Bushtards who approved of the dolt until the end. They can not own up to the fact that they were scammed, and so they will defend Obama to the death even as he bends them over the fence for his corporate masters.
I saw participants referring to themselves as teabaggers in the beginning, and the idiotic right wing commentators at Faux News picked it up and ran with it before they figured out what it meant. Which is hilarious because the initial Tea Party events were sponsored by Faux News.
Ad hominem means 'to the man.' Which man was attacked? Look, it is not our fault that those fucking idiots chose a name that means something dirty. The fact that they chose such a name just fits the pattern of sub-par intelligence and lack of research or original thinking we see coming from that particular lunatic fringe. If the teabaggers want respect, they need to do something to earn it. I'm not going to kiss your ass and call you a genius if you assert nonsense like 'Obama wants to kill my granny!' or 'He is a Muslin, born in Kenya!' or 'deregulating businesses serves the interests of the working man.'
Congress would need to pass the law, the judges would need to sentence breaches of the law, and we would need to fund a police force dedicated to investigating it. As nobody but the state can seek the death penalty for humans, I think it is fair to do the same for corporations. But anyone can call a tip line and let the police know that someone is engaged in criminal activity. Not every corporate crime should lead to a death penalty, but at a minimum, if someone dies as a result of corporate malfeasance, it should be a possibility.
No, fucking nuke them from orbit, its the only way to be sure. Unleash unholy hell on any company that commits a crime. I mean end of days, Armageddon type over the top punitive cruel and unusual punishment. Make everyone even a little bit involved so fucking scared that they take a little personal responsibility the next time they look for a job, a supplier, or an investment, and they decide "Hey, doing business with organized crime does not pay, I'll look elsewhere rather than go through THAT again."
Right now, you can invest in organized crime, make a killing off of the criminal activity, and suffer absolutely no consequences when the criminal activity is discovered. That constitutes a pretty serious moral hazard. I say we excise that cancerous moral hazard with fire, and lots of it.
The nice thing is that the citizens of the whole fucking world are so fed up with corporate crime, this sort of thing actually stands a chance of becoming law.
You missed the part where I said 'carve it up and sell off the parts,' didn't you? The employees and customers go to the purchaser. How about you learn some fucking reading comprehension?
Imagine how your idiotic proposal would work if applied to the mob. Punish the bad actors at the mob, but not the people who buy the drugs and guns? Punish the murderers, but not the numbers runners and bookies? You see, we are talking about organized crime here. Punish everyone even peripherally involved, to teach them to take a little personal responsibility in their lives. You invest in the mob, you go to jail. You work for the mob, you go to jail. You buy from the mob, you go to jail. Criminals are criminals, end of fucking story.
Corporations can only run things because citizens are indifferent. We are ultimately in charge, this system we are part of is not something controlling us from the outside. We control the system, although we abdicate control much of the time.
Preach on brotha'!
There's one wrinkle, though. Who gets to bell the cat?
The same folks who always bell the cat: We, the People.
They didn't all pass on the screwage to customers, lie about it, and replace bad parts with more known bad parts.
You give the fields of public relations and image management short shrift. They exist primarily to make the problems you outline disappear.
D - The likelihood we can pay someone to cover this up in the short term, which is all that seems to matter to corporate officers anyhow, is pretty high.
E - History shows that damage to a corporate reputation can be easily managed. It does not asymptotically approach infinity, as the Ford Pinto clearly demonstrates. Does anyone today refrain from buying Ford because the Pinto killed people? I think not.
F - It is much cheaper to simply lie copiously through advertising and PR to generate that goodwill. After all, it isn't about the truth, but perception. Perceptions can be bought.
In ten years, Dell will still be around but your memory of this incident won't be. You will most likely be buying Dell again.
Toyota will very likely survive and thrive again?!? They are thriving right now, they are the largest in terms of sales and production. Even BP isn't going to go under without help. Hell, what would a boycott of BP do? They still own the oil, which is only going to become more valuable over time. Oil underground is money in the bank, it even collects interest. BP isn't going anywhere, this will barely be a blip on the balance sheets in twenty years.
You see, all corporations suck to some extent. And people have busy lives. They don't remember the fact that some big faceless corporation screwed them over, that is a non event because it happens all the time. You live with it. You forget. When Exxon and Mobile merged, did they drop the Exxon part of the name because of the Exxon Valdez spill? Of course not, and ExxonMobile is doing just peachy.
I'd love to live in a world like the one you imagine, where fairness and justice just happen, because everyone does their part to stand up to evil. It would be a better world than this one.
How exactly do you send a corporation to maximum security prison?
You don't, you give it the death penalty. Carve it up and sell the parts to the highest bidder. Confiscate all bonuses from the corporate officers involved in the decision, use the proceeds from the sale and bonuses to pay off any 401(k) retirement plans invested in the company. Let the other shareholders eat the loss as a warning to perform better due diligence and not invest in criminal organizations. After all, if you invested in the mob and they got busted, you wouldn't get your money back, right? Organized crime is organized crime, it doesn't matter if the leader of one organization graduated from Yale and the other graduated from jail. If a corporation engages in criminal behavior, kill it with extreme prejudice and make all responsible suffer. If investors get burned a few times, they will make it a point to only invest in socially responsible, ethical companies.
Derp. Learn some physics. Heck, teach yourself what the scientific method actually does. If 3D objects can interact with a 2D universe, then dimensionality doesn't matter. We can understand them and come up with a comprehensive theory, because we can see the effects. In fact, some current theories treat any volume of our 3D universe as a 2 dimensional plane wrapped into a sphere enclosing that arbitrary 3d volume. Anything that happens inside the 3D sphere is completely described by entities on the boundary plane.
In short, if it happens within my sphere of perception, it isn't magic and I can understand it. The idea that an advanced civilization can not understand these midichlorians is simply ludicrous, but that is okay, because Star Wars is not science fiction, it is science fantasy. Internal consistency has never been a big issue in the Star Wars universe, and any attempts to argue for some sort of internal consistency will only come from silly fan boys who don't understand the difference between fantasy and science.
Kids are only coercive and manipulative when they've been indoctrinated into hierarchical thinking. In (very rare, isolated) non hierarchical societies, where kids are not beaten regularly, don't have their genitals mutilated, are held until they don't want to be anymore, and never sleep alone, they do not rebel and do what adults want them to without being beaten into it. Think about it, what is the evolutionary advantage of untrained, unskilled young humans rebelling against the wishes of their elders? Nothing. However, when a child finds itself in an environment where every natural and innate expectation goes unmet, it then has reason to rebel.
I'm not saying that everyone should raise their kids according to The Continuum Concept with family bed and carrying baby around everywhere. In Western society, hierarchical structures are everywhere and unavoidable, and even if you do it perfectly, it probably won't work. Unless you form some sort of cult with like minded folks and isolate your kids from 'evil western influences,' but that approach has a pretty poor track record too. However, if you lay the groundwork of trust early, your kids will be more likely to accept your reasoning without rebelling later.
The explanation is bullshit. We are supposed to believe that this blaster having, light speed exceeding, strong AI using galactic society can not figure out and duplicate the 'quirk of physics' embodied in midichlorians? The explanation is magical precisely because it can not be duplicated or even explained technologically by a sufficiently advanced civilization.
Dragons wearing kimonos? Or did you mean Komodo Dragons?
If we are going to do large scale socialism, couldn't we at least do it for our own people first?
Good old Blackadder. I just love Rowan Atkinson, who is surely not the type of fellow who sues his fans for stealing his material.
Movies do not cost that much to shoot. Explosions, hot famous actors and actresses, and anthropomorphic CGI animals cost that much to shoot. I know most people nowadays think the one is synonymous with the others, but that is not necessarily the case.
Maybe we could trade some of our irony for their lithiumy and coppery.
The survey has been complete for months. And major wartime funding has been up for renewal. It wasn't renewed. Then the report was released, and now a bunch of representatives are asking themselves, "Who gets the development contracts?" Welcome to realpolitik.
Granny just covered up the minerals with afghans because she fricken' covers everything with afghans.
Then why not recognize when they meet that standard by documenting and mapping Russian preliminary findings and PUBLISHING the information and providing it to the Afghans?
Why the sinister suggestions of evil intent?
Because congress just turned down a military request for more funds for the first time in decades. This report has been ready for ages, the military has been saving it for just such an occasion. The idea being, every representative will be thinking, who gets the contracts to develop? Someone from my state, or another state? The military gets a big say in this: this company can perform work in a war zone, this one isn't capable, and so on. So, it isn't so much a sinister suggestion of evil intent as glaring example of realpolitik in action.