I'm surprised this hasn't already come up, considering this is geek central I would have hoped more people were using Bitlbee. Facebook has added this annoying caveat to being able to login via jabber: You must be able to login via a web browser on the same host as the one you're trying to setup jabber with; this rules out public Bitlbee and other gateway services, as well as boxes that don't have X installed on them (Facebook requires you use an 'approved' browser, meaning lo (e)l[inks|ynx] for you).
Logging in: Authenticated, requesting buddy list
Logging in: Message from unknown handle chat.facebook.com:
>
You're signing in from a location we're not familiar with. That's no problem, but we do want to make sure no one is using your Facebook account without permission. Please take a few moments to review your recent Facebook activity. Start by logging in to facebook.com from any computer. (For your security, your Facebook account will be unavailable until you complete these steps.)
Couldn't log in: Account and resource used from a different location
Logging in: Signing off..
Guess that means I'll continue on with FB chat disabled, like I need yet another IM that I won't use anyway. Google Buzz looks more interesting anyway, as it is integrated with my email and other cloud data (privacy issues blah blah blah, I know) and their jabber services actually work wherever I want them to. Last I checked, my password identified me as me, why the extra unnecessary step? Because they want you to actually read their shovelware app spam to make money.
Everyone seems to have touched on the obvious issues here, but what about Free and Open Source games? The project I work on, a First Person Shooter, looked into the OFLC process only a few months ago, and there are strict rules in place; one of them being that you require a publisher. FOSS games not only have no publisher, but they're not even physically distributed in most cases. Not only can they not get classified, if they're deemed to exceed this arbitrary MA15+ rating they'll be outright blocked without any avenue of appeal because they don't fit "inside the neat little box" that still exist due to arcane laws (something that deeply concerns me as an Australian FOSS Developer).
Maybe I was being a little over-defensive because of the way others commented without even trying (or downloading, or investigating) the game, and yes as a result I have support burnout. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and I hope you can accept my apologies.
Your first issue is actually quite valid, it seems with more players the setting for "serverupdateinterval" is too short to accommodate the lag between people geographically far away from the server. (I've since increased the default for that variable to 30, which I hope will alleviate the problem). Realise that we did get quite alot of good, decent regulars who are playing now (which was a little unexpected actually) and that the problem lies in latency and routing issues and not with the game itself.
Your second issue is not the map you are on but the mode you are playing in. Select something like "deathmatch" or "capture-the-flag" before hitting vote. Your fourth issue is a bit challenging, I'm Australian and you turned up while I was asleep, usually I'm the only one doing everything from coding to tech support (which, again, attributes to the burnout), and usually most of the people who have stuck around talked to me and learned first hand how to actually play the game (and once you get past that it's quite fun).
Your last issue is just a misconception (you can adjust the botscale variable to scale the number of players the map suggests). Note that bots auto-populate maps if you're actually playing a deathmatch game, you actually shouldn't need to interfere with it beyond altering botminskill/botmaxskill. There are some issues with the AI logic in certain setups too which have been addressed upstream (sometimes they would go insane and flip targets constantly every frame).
I don't feel "games are art" more that the aim of it is to have fun, not to over-analyse every little (and often irrelevant) detail, as some of the trolls here did. I bit off your head without thinking because of others here who have no heart. The people who have approached me directly and given friendly criticism or asked intelligent questions have often had their issue fixed within five minutes (or submit upstream to SVN for the patch). I even fixed the issues the trolls here posted, believe it or not.
Mistakes aside, this is all why I won't be participating in the Slashdot discussions from here on in; the nasty people had me become what I despise most about alot of projects - rude and condescending developers - and is actually the reason we started Blood Frontier in the first place. It's hard not to get jaded when there are so many ingrates, and in my experience it is best to avoid those types of people completely. I wasn't expecting everyone to love the project, but I was expecting I higher caliber in the responses from people who should know better. People like that, they're the reason the devs get like I did with you; again I apologise for catching you in the crossfire and appreciate your attempts to set things straight.
And I've just realised that the only people who leave comments on the Slashdot article are the ones who haven't given it a chance. From now on I will not be responding to Slashdot comments, if you want to talk to us, you can use our proper support mechanisms (IRC and Forums) and be held properly accountable for your words (or be educated by someone instead of remaining ignorant).
1. The servers were not down, there were four people playing on the master server when you joined the IRC channel. I don't appreciate misinformation. 2. As far as I know this is an OpenGL context problem on Windows, destroying said context destroys all OpenGL data, so you'd need to reload everything anyway. Then again, I didn't write the engine or the libraries it uses. 3. You are playing in a non-DM mode, you can't do damage in Editing/Lobby/etc. 4. Hold the key as you run over the weapon, you'll pick it up and you don't need to stop moving. You CAN only pick up two weapons, it is just you do not drop your super weapon (grenade) or spawn weapon (plasma). 5. Default bot settings are easy so people don't get frustrated easily, increase their skill, it's right there on the second tab where you select your map. 6. Overseer is a work in progress, the doors will eventually lead to tutorials. Overseer is NOT a Deathmatch map, it is for the Lobby when you start up the game (think Quake's start level) -- wait -- don't the doors say "This area is under construction" when you're in the lobby, or was I tripping when I took the time to add that? 7. You obviously didn't read any of the errata at all or speak to anybody who has already played it; items don't respawn until the person who picked it up drops it - item domination replaces running around the level in routes to dominate pickups. 8. You're the only one to complain about the sound it makes.
While I appreciate the fact you've taken the time to download and try it, it seems like you've wasted your own and my time. You've either made false statements or dismissed a ton of things simply because you didn't take the time to examine it, and that just annoys me. Do I have to write everything in capital letters all over the levels? How many other Multiplayer FPS games explain every detail? In most cases you learn how to play by playing it - properly.
Realise you're speaking in a public forum and statements you make reflect on the long term view of the project - I'd almost call it defamation. Oh well, at least you're not as bad as the trolls here, but you gave it about the same chance as they did. I'm not looking for feedback from people who play it for ten seconds (exaggeration) and can't accept the rough edges of a BETA (because we all know from Google that Beta's are finished products, right?).
Geez, I wasn't even being rude, I merely said I thought you were nitpicking a little over an inconsequential detail and accepted the fact that I made mistake; what more do you want me to do? If I had to wager a guess it is you who are incapable/unwilling to read, then again judging by your attitude I don't see why I should care either.
Please do! We are always looking for talented people to fill in the parts we are only improvising; you can either use our forums at http://www.bloodfrontier.com/forums or use our preferred method of collaboration by joining us on IRC at http://www.bloodfrontier.com/chat (or irc://irc.freenode.net/bloodfrontier if you have an IRC client).
Bit hard when you hide behind the "Anonymous Coward", we have no idea who you are or proof you made anything other than a trolling post on Slashdot. Ok, so you've made a few maps? We've had to make an entire game from nothing. I have this motto; "Deeds not words" - which basically means do something and stop talking about it.
Yep, I took the feedback and reworked the website to use redirects instead - this gets around the SF.net broken-ness for now. Thanks for the useful and friendly feedback.
I'll be honest and say I was trying to find the best couple of paragraphs from our release announcement to share. As we had already been mentioned on Slashdot previously I did not think it was wise to rehash information people would already have known - but I'll keep this in mind in the future. If you had clicked either of the links in the O.P. you would have found out more and I think you're just nitpicking for lack of anything better to do. I do appreciate your response though and will make a better effort to be more descriptive future endeavours.
Wow, thanks for the awesome feedback! In alot of cases I totally agree with you:o) About "android vs. cyborg" - I asked the same question to the other developers when I read it, they didn't see the issue, at least now I have some backup, hah.
We've been toying with the idea of a melee attack, but for the moment we have tried to keep a nice balanced set of projectile weapons to get the multiplayer up and running smoothly - this will definitely become more of an issue as we start writing the (singleplayer) campaigns. We just haven't decided how we're gonna do this nicely yet, so we've labeled it "for the future".
HUD frag info, awards, flashlight, etc. Again, for the future; this is definitely something we want to pursue as it makes the game more competitive and fun - and that is what this is all about. Quad damage is a mixed bag, the weapons are already very deadly and we have been trying very hard to avoid the whole "pickup powerup" scheme - do expect to see single shot super weapons in the future though in the same vain as the grenades - which should make you feel nice and powerful:o)
I really appreciate your kind and helpful responses, it is a breath of fresh air. I hope you continue to enjoy Blood Frontier as much as we love making it, you're the type of person that has inspired us to keep going for as long as we have.
While I may have responded in kind, I took your feedback seriously and fixed both the website and a myriad of the bugs you submit into upstream SVN. My point is that you are a troll, you have no empathy or care beyond your own sad little life, and you're exactly the type of person that drives open source developers to become jaded and rude. Thus ends the conversation, I won't waste another moment of effort on an ungrateful person such as yourself.
Well, I love how it is assumed that I "stole tricks" to create the website. While I may not be officially a web developer, I was fully aware of both the XHTML and CSS standards required. The point is moot anyway, had you double checked I took the feedback seriously and redesigned the website accordingly. Stop trolling and find something more useful to do, like - y'know - making something constructive?
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Yeah buddy, you really gave it a chance.. So no, I am not happy; your feedback is done with malice and spite. While you make valid points; for a beta you are just nitpicking. You made no attempt to talk to us or work out how to do things, you're just too self involved to care. I'm not afraid to say these truthful things either; people like you, we do not need - people who are helpful; they're more than welcome.
The point was it was implemented in the server, so you can get real time help if necessary. We're hardly saying we're the first to do it (Even UT had a builtin IRC client), just that it is simple and quick to get help if you need it. I'd say this was more a troll than feedback.
You're still not providing any useful feedback. I can only test it on so many configurations considering my limited access to everything under the sun.
Quite happily, I certainly don't mind responding to an intelligent question. A quick glance of the source code should even fill you in.
I have had to bring a bunch of non-contiguous Sourceforge apps into a consistent interface, something which they still keep failing to do adequately. So I use a bit of javascript to dynamically resize the frame based on the browser's dimensions and provide a bit of feedback as to what is happening in the blurb bar.
The other part I guess would be Piwik, but it has a non-script fallback so should be less of an issue if you have it turned off. None of this is any worse than 99% of websites already out there, and in my opinion it's quite tame, and as I said, it is improvised and someone with more knowledge on how to make a consistent interface with something as clunky as Sourceforge is welcome to come talk to me. Just for the record, no, I am not looking for answers like "don't use Sourceforge", last time I tried that Slashdot killed my VM and cost my friends a crapload of money.
Thank you for your intelligent response, it is a breath of fresh air. I am well aware of the types of behaviour people exhibit, and to be honest it is all water off a ducks back. The type of people who make rude and off-topic comments are not the type of people I care to work with, I've just simply made it a point to try and steer the conversation toward something more constructive (and failed, but eh). As I said, I've been doing this a long time and know full well what to expect. The *good* people who don't comment usually come directly to us and give us great feedback, and they truly are the kind of users we want participating - it just means I probably won't monitor Slashdot comments in future because they seem mostly, well, nasty or ill-thought.
I've noticed quite alot of misinformation and negativity from the users of Slashdot, and I must say that I am quite disappointed by it. Geeks are supposed to be intelligent people with thought out answers and responses, and it seems to me everyone who comments either did not bother to try the game at all, or find some other off-topic fault to complain about.
I have worked in Open Source for a decade now, and this is the reason most developers become jaded and rude to their users - nothing else. You all want Free and Open Source Software, but where is your empathy? What do we get out of it other than an earful of crap? Please wake up to yourselves and do something to benefit the community for once, rather than idly making rude remarks to inflate your own sense of ego.
My challenge to you all is this: Actually play the game and come up with some constructive criticism. Otherwise, please just ignore this post and move along.
The webmaster is me; a guy who works 18 hours a day doing everything from community management, to coding, to improvising the website. I'm not a web developer, but when nobody else is putting up their hand to make a better one I had to make use of what was there.
Good luck using the internet in the future, you're gonna need it.
Slashdot Mirror
Seems to have stopped right here?
We're going to take on big companies with a BAT?
I'm surprised this hasn't already come up, considering this is geek central I would have hoped more people were using Bitlbee. Facebook has added this annoying caveat to being able to login via jabber: You must be able to login via a web browser on the same host as the one you're trying to setup jabber with; this rules out public Bitlbee and other gateway services, as well as boxes that don't have X installed on them (Facebook requires you use an 'approved' browser, meaning lo (e)l[inks|ynx] for you).
Logging in: Authenticated, requesting buddy list Logging in: Message from unknown handle chat.facebook.com: > You're signing in from a location we're not familiar with. That's no problem, but we do want to make sure no one is using your Facebook account without permission. Please take a few moments to review your recent Facebook activity. Start by logging in to facebook.com from any computer. (For your security, your Facebook account will be unavailable until you complete these steps.) Couldn't log in: Account and resource used from a different location Logging in: Signing off..
Guess that means I'll continue on with FB chat disabled, like I need yet another IM that I won't use anyway. Google Buzz looks more interesting anyway, as it is integrated with my email and other cloud data (privacy issues blah blah blah, I know) and their jabber services actually work wherever I want them to. Last I checked, my password identified me as me, why the extra unnecessary step? Because they want you to actually read their shovelware app spam to make money.
Check their Twits; you'll find more often than not that they're spammers. Some people are just so glad to have a follower they don't realise it.
Everyone seems to have touched on the obvious issues here, but what about Free and Open Source games? The project I work on, a First Person Shooter, looked into the OFLC process only a few months ago, and there are strict rules in place; one of them being that you require a publisher. FOSS games not only have no publisher, but they're not even physically distributed in most cases. Not only can they not get classified, if they're deemed to exceed this arbitrary MA15+ rating they'll be outright blocked without any avenue of appeal because they don't fit "inside the neat little box" that still exist due to arcane laws (something that deeply concerns me as an Australian FOSS Developer).
Damn cowards, go spellcheck the rest internetz. That should keep you busy for a few decades and leave the rest of us in peace.
Maybe I was being a little over-defensive because of the way others commented without even trying (or downloading, or investigating) the game, and yes as a result I have support burnout. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and I hope you can accept my apologies.
Your first issue is actually quite valid, it seems with more players the setting for "serverupdateinterval" is too short to accommodate the lag between people geographically far away from the server. (I've since increased the default for that variable to 30, which I hope will alleviate the problem). Realise that we did get quite alot of good, decent regulars who are playing now (which was a little unexpected actually) and that the problem lies in latency and routing issues and not with the game itself.
Your second issue is not the map you are on but the mode you are playing in. Select something like "deathmatch" or "capture-the-flag" before hitting vote. Your fourth issue is a bit challenging, I'm Australian and you turned up while I was asleep, usually I'm the only one doing everything from coding to tech support (which, again, attributes to the burnout), and usually most of the people who have stuck around talked to me and learned first hand how to actually play the game (and once you get past that it's quite fun).
Your last issue is just a misconception (you can adjust the botscale variable to scale the number of players the map suggests). Note that bots auto-populate maps if you're actually playing a deathmatch game, you actually shouldn't need to interfere with it beyond altering botminskill/botmaxskill. There are some issues with the AI logic in certain setups too which have been addressed upstream (sometimes they would go insane and flip targets constantly every frame).
I don't feel "games are art" more that the aim of it is to have fun, not to over-analyse every little (and often irrelevant) detail, as some of the trolls here did. I bit off your head without thinking because of others here who have no heart. The people who have approached me directly and given friendly criticism or asked intelligent questions have often had their issue fixed within five minutes (or submit upstream to SVN for the patch). I even fixed the issues the trolls here posted, believe it or not.
Mistakes aside, this is all why I won't be participating in the Slashdot discussions from here on in; the nasty people had me become what I despise most about alot of projects - rude and condescending developers - and is actually the reason we started Blood Frontier in the first place. It's hard not to get jaded when there are so many ingrates, and in my experience it is best to avoid those types of people completely. I wasn't expecting everyone to love the project, but I was expecting I higher caliber in the responses from people who should know better. People like that, they're the reason the devs get like I did with you; again I apologise for catching you in the crossfire and appreciate your attempts to set things straight.
And I've just realised that the only people who leave comments on the Slashdot article are the ones who haven't given it a chance. From now on I will not be responding to Slashdot comments, if you want to talk to us, you can use our proper support mechanisms (IRC and Forums) and be held properly accountable for your words (or be educated by someone instead of remaining ignorant).
1. The servers were not down, there were four people playing on the master server when you joined the IRC channel. I don't appreciate misinformation.
2. As far as I know this is an OpenGL context problem on Windows, destroying said context destroys all OpenGL data, so you'd need to reload everything anyway. Then again, I didn't write the engine or the libraries it uses.
3. You are playing in a non-DM mode, you can't do damage in Editing/Lobby/etc.
4. Hold the key as you run over the weapon, you'll pick it up and you don't need to stop moving. You CAN only pick up two weapons, it is just you do not drop your super weapon (grenade) or spawn weapon (plasma).
5. Default bot settings are easy so people don't get frustrated easily, increase their skill, it's right there on the second tab where you select your map.
6. Overseer is a work in progress, the doors will eventually lead to tutorials. Overseer is NOT a Deathmatch map, it is for the Lobby when you start up the game (think Quake's start level) -- wait -- don't the doors say "This area is under construction" when you're in the lobby, or was I tripping when I took the time to add that?
7. You obviously didn't read any of the errata at all or speak to anybody who has already played it; items don't respawn until the person who picked it up drops it - item domination replaces running around the level in routes to dominate pickups.
8. You're the only one to complain about the sound it makes.
While I appreciate the fact you've taken the time to download and try it, it seems like you've wasted your own and my time. You've either made false statements or dismissed a ton of things simply because you didn't take the time to examine it, and that just annoys me. Do I have to write everything in capital letters all over the levels? How many other Multiplayer FPS games explain every detail? In most cases you learn how to play by playing it - properly.
Realise you're speaking in a public forum and statements you make reflect on the long term view of the project - I'd almost call it defamation. Oh well, at least you're not as bad as the trolls here, but you gave it about the same chance as they did. I'm not looking for feedback from people who play it for ten seconds (exaggeration) and can't accept the rough edges of a BETA (because we all know from Google that Beta's are finished products, right?).
Geez, I wasn't even being rude, I merely said I thought you were nitpicking a little over an inconsequential detail and accepted the fact that I made mistake; what more do you want me to do? If I had to wager a guess it is you who are incapable/unwilling to read, then again judging by your attitude I don't see why I should care either.
Please do! We are always looking for talented people to fill in the parts we are only improvising; you can either use our forums at http://www.bloodfrontier.com/forums or use our preferred method of collaboration by joining us on IRC at http://www.bloodfrontier.com/chat (or irc://irc.freenode.net/bloodfrontier if you have an IRC client).
Bit hard when you hide behind the "Anonymous Coward", we have no idea who you are or proof you made anything other than a trolling post on Slashdot. Ok, so you've made a few maps? We've had to make an entire game from nothing. I have this motto; "Deeds not words" - which basically means do something and stop talking about it.
Yep, I took the feedback and reworked the website to use redirects instead - this gets around the SF.net broken-ness for now. Thanks for the useful and friendly feedback.
I'll be honest and say I was trying to find the best couple of paragraphs from our release announcement to share. As we had already been mentioned on Slashdot previously I did not think it was wise to rehash information people would already have known - but I'll keep this in mind in the future. If you had clicked either of the links in the O.P. you would have found out more and I think you're just nitpicking for lack of anything better to do. I do appreciate your response though and will make a better effort to be more descriptive future endeavours.
Wow, thanks for the awesome feedback! In alot of cases I totally agree with you :o) About "android vs. cyborg" - I asked the same question to the other developers when I read it, they didn't see the issue, at least now I have some backup, hah.
We've been toying with the idea of a melee attack, but for the moment we have tried to keep a nice balanced set of projectile weapons to get the multiplayer up and running smoothly - this will definitely become more of an issue as we start writing the (singleplayer) campaigns. We just haven't decided how we're gonna do this nicely yet, so we've labeled it "for the future".
HUD frag info, awards, flashlight, etc. Again, for the future; this is definitely something we want to pursue as it makes the game more competitive and fun - and that is what this is all about. Quad damage is a mixed bag, the weapons are already very deadly and we have been trying very hard to avoid the whole "pickup powerup" scheme - do expect to see single shot super weapons in the future though in the same vain as the grenades - which should make you feel nice and powerful :o)
I really appreciate your kind and helpful responses, it is a breath of fresh air. I hope you continue to enjoy Blood Frontier as much as we love making it, you're the type of person that has inspired us to keep going for as long as we have.
While I may have responded in kind, I took your feedback seriously and fixed both the website and a myriad of the bugs you submit into upstream SVN. My point is that you are a troll, you have no empathy or care beyond your own sad little life, and you're exactly the type of person that drives open source developers to become jaded and rude. Thus ends the conversation, I won't waste another moment of effort on an ungrateful person such as yourself.
Well, I love how it is assumed that I "stole tricks" to create the website. While I may not be officially a web developer, I was fully aware of both the XHTML and CSS standards required. The point is moot anyway, had you double checked I took the feedback seriously and redesigned the website accordingly. Stop trolling and find something more useful to do, like - y'know - making something constructive?
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Yeah buddy, you really gave it a chance.. So no, I am not happy; your feedback is done with malice and spite. While you make valid points; for a beta you are just nitpicking. You made no attempt to talk to us or work out how to do things, you're just too self involved to care. I'm not afraid to say these truthful things either; people like you, we do not need - people who are helpful; they're more than welcome.
The point was it was implemented in the server, so you can get real time help if necessary. We're hardly saying we're the first to do it (Even UT had a builtin IRC client), just that it is simple and quick to get help if you need it. I'd say this was more a troll than feedback.
You're still not providing any useful feedback. I can only test it on so many configurations considering my limited access to everything under the sun.
Quite happily, I certainly don't mind responding to an intelligent question. A quick glance of the source code should even fill you in.
I have had to bring a bunch of non-contiguous Sourceforge apps into a consistent interface, something which they still keep failing to do adequately. So I use a bit of javascript to dynamically resize the frame based on the browser's dimensions and provide a bit of feedback as to what is happening in the blurb bar.
The other part I guess would be Piwik, but it has a non-script fallback so should be less of an issue if you have it turned off. None of this is any worse than 99% of websites already out there, and in my opinion it's quite tame, and as I said, it is improvised and someone with more knowledge on how to make a consistent interface with something as clunky as Sourceforge is welcome to come talk to me. Just for the record, no, I am not looking for answers like "don't use Sourceforge", last time I tried that Slashdot killed my VM and cost my friends a crapload of money.
Thank you for your intelligent response, it is a breath of fresh air. I am well aware of the types of behaviour people exhibit, and to be honest it is all water off a ducks back. The type of people who make rude and off-topic comments are not the type of people I care to work with, I've just simply made it a point to try and steer the conversation toward something more constructive (and failed, but eh). As I said, I've been doing this a long time and know full well what to expect. The *good* people who don't comment usually come directly to us and give us great feedback, and they truly are the kind of users we want participating - it just means I probably won't monitor Slashdot comments in future because they seem mostly, well, nasty or ill-thought.
I've noticed quite alot of misinformation and negativity from the users of Slashdot, and I must say that I am quite disappointed by it. Geeks are supposed to be intelligent people with thought out answers and responses, and it seems to me everyone who comments either did not bother to try the game at all, or find some other off-topic fault to complain about.
I have worked in Open Source for a decade now, and this is the reason most developers become jaded and rude to their users - nothing else. You all want Free and Open Source Software, but where is your empathy? What do we get out of it other than an earful of crap? Please wake up to yourselves and do something to benefit the community for once, rather than idly making rude remarks to inflate your own sense of ego.
My challenge to you all is this: Actually play the game and come up with some constructive criticism. Otherwise, please just ignore this post and move along.
Yeah, like this very website. Slashdot uses JS/AJAX to thread comments. It's a strange remark to make in a Web 2.0 world, and totally off topic.
The webmaster is me; a guy who works 18 hours a day doing everything from community management, to coding, to improvising the website. I'm not a web developer, but when nobody else is putting up their hand to make a better one I had to make use of what was there.
Good luck using the internet in the future, you're gonna need it.