Bah. I recall some similar, "frightening" studies involving kids being unable to tie their shoes (or learn knots in general) due to the popularity of this "Velcro" stuff on shoes.
As near as I can tell, Civilization hasn't collapsed yet. Screw handwriting.
No, all you need is the authorization number to settle. If you haven't settled within a week (because you haven't shipped the goods), the authorization is cancelled by the bank.
I just checked the documentation for two major CC transports, Vital Technologies (former VISANet) and Novus. For the methods that I looked up, both required CC# and authorization # on settlement. Therefore you are responsible for storing these somewhere safe in between.
You're saying that you can't trust your employees, so you should just throw all security precautions to the wind? That would fly really well..
I'm not saying that at all -- only pointing out that there is a very strong flaw in the whole system. I agree with what other people have mentioned, that putting all of our faith into a 15-17 digit number maybe isn't the best method available.
"Criminals as employees" is completely relevant, if you're considering as an option storing the CC# somewhere for a very short time and then destroying it -- as in "its only in the order database for 5 minutes, so its unlikely that somebody will steal it." A secure system shouldn't be built around the premise that the users are beyond reproach, its bad for the systems and bad for the user. I mention this only because its usually the first idea I hear from a client when considering this problem.
When you (the merchant) authorizes a credit card purchase, you need to retain the CC# for the duration of the authorization. During that time, its stored *somewhere*, right?
Also, when you go later to settle on the card and collect your $, you will need the CC# along with the authorization # to transmit to the clearinghouse. You are not allowed to settle until the goods have clearly shipped, for some types of businesses this could be several days.
So you still have to store the CC# for some period of time. I, as a master RDBMS hacker, am so godlike in my power that i set up a trigger on your highly volatile, temporary CC table to copy each new row into a hidden secret table. Then I go pick that up later.
It doesn't matter if you keep the records around for minutes or years, someone with the right skills and opportunity (ie. your underpaid DBA) can get through.
I wonder if Larry Ellison would be so pissed about ranking behind Gates... Perhaps theres an OracleDot.org somewhere in an alternate universe full of angry Ellison worshippers?
Ellison and Gates should rent out Caesar's Palace boxing ring, put on gloves, and settle the whole thing once and for all.
--
Thats interesting that they charged your credit card -- merchant policy about this is fairly clear: the seller cannot "settle" on your card until the merchandise has shipped. To settle on the card before the goods have been shipped is a fairly major breach of their merchant agreement.
I'm assuming one of two things: 1. the seller is a US Corp or has a merchant account based in the US, or that the credit card policies are similar world-wide. (Yeah, big assumption, I know, so you can skip the US-centric flames...)
It'd be interesting to mention that bit to your issuing bank and see what they do...
IANAL or anything, I just write software that processes credit cards... --
the shell "cmd.exe", NT's default command shell, handles spaces just fine - no problems.
the NT shell's bastard illegitimate cousin, "command.com", is stupid about long file names, spaces in names, and everything else.
None of this changes the fact that ancient MSDOS support sucks and should go away, soon. Why use ME anyhow? If you're forced to use M$ products why not use w2k instead of son-of-the-return-of-Win95 ?
I read/. because the only politics that I have to read is about privacy/technology legistlation.
Perhaps your view of "politics" is more focused than mine, but how is this any different than the incredibly strong Anti-Corporate/Pro-Open Source Movement of Slashdot throughout?
If CmdrTaco said "And by the way, I hate Microsoft's compilers, I'd rather use MalignantC++ 3.0 instead" his comment would be universally hailed as the teachings of a heroic Freedom Fighter.
Heres a tip: Not every CD found in a typical record store can also be found playing currently on the radio dial.
There are plenty of genres where you'll buy first and discover your mistake later -- for example I have a number of recordings of Mozart's "Great" Mass in Cm by different performers. Some were worth it, some were not.
Lets look a little bit beyond the top-40, please..
I'm sure such an object would have great value to the Nazi artifact collectors out there... shades of the massive marks paid for 'Hitler's Diaries' a few (15?) years ago...
I'm sure you could find plenty of 'underground' nazi/war item collectors would be happy to have such a device, showing it only to their friend collectors...
>You'd think these people were actively rooting >for MS in the case, and get a stranglehold > on the software world's air supply on the rebound
I don't find this surprising at all. CNN = Time/Warner = AOL, who doesn't want to find themselves up next on the Monopolist chopping block. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Sure, it has been pretty easy to get a large amount of momentum against M$ and Windows -- who hasn't watched win95/98 crash while screaming obscenities? How much more difficult will it be to bring public opinion against TimeWarner? I'm talking the non technical unwashed masses here, not those who understand the implications of an AOL dominated world where the Internet becomes the next Pay-Per-View, and the freedom of information is a distant memory...
the real question is: have we been ranting against the wrong force all this time? I'm much more concerned about TimeWarners/AOLs ability to control the flow of information than I ever was about M$'s shoddy products.
'course, maybe I'm all wrong, and AOL will turn out to be the best thing since DVDs, Region codes, and encryption being made illegal. *shrug*
Somebody's got to say it... Have they looked on eBay yet for it?
"the information was encrypted..." Right, it was stored on the hard drive as a series of magnetic patterns representing 0's and 1's. They'll NEVER figure that out...
I for one am glad to see this sort of logic. There have been way too many incidents in our (Humanity's) past similar to: Explorer1> Look, an indiginous people. We should make an attempt to learn from them, to peacefully coexist with their...WOW, they've got GOLD! Fsck 'em! [sounds of machine guns firing]
This sort of foreward thinking is refreshing. As long as the Europans don't have gold or oil or something, perhaps we'd leave them alone. (Sidenote: fossil fuels on Europa - wouldn't THAT screw with a few theories..)
Of course I'm way too cynical to actually believe any of that, but its a nice thought.
Ok, so this is a dumb question I'm sure but... If the medium is readable, then wouldn't it be possible to put the disks in any drive capable of translating the medium(*) into 1s and 0s, and then read off the raw 1s and 0s to be reconstructed by another program later?
I mean, if the 1/0s are still there, then SOMETHING can read them, it requires "only the will to do so." If the data was valuable enough, then time/$ could be spent to make it happen.
(*) The obvious problem - a device to read the medium. Still, as long as information about how these devices worked survives, a new reader could be built (perhaps 50-100 yrs in the future) that conforms to the old specs...
Maybe I'm being a little too optimistic here...why doesn't that idea work?
Hmm, an interesting thought. So will the so called 'splintering' of Linux be the breakthrough that FreeBSD needs? Or is it 'too late'?
Personally, I'd rather see the modification and diversity of linux continue, to a point. It seems in line with the attitude that "we've got to fight the 'One World, One [Insert Giant SW/HW company here]' people!" So will the diversity allow linux to flourish in ways that we can't currently understand, or kill it, like certain media pundits think?
Better to be dynamic than static, to a certain point. The model seems to have worked OK for hardware/PC clone manufacturers in the past...
I read Alex Garland's novel (the one this movie is based on) a while back and thought to myself that it wasn't that bad of a novel, tho obviously an authors early work in their carreer. A little rough in places and WAY too similar to Lord of the Flies...
And then I saw a preview for the movie, with "gosh-I'm-so-Cute" diCaprio and thought well, they're going to ruin that one...
I have no plans to go see the movie... based on what I've seen from the previews / trailers it looks like just another poorly made movie, loosely based on an OK novel, but all jacked up to a sensational HOLLYWOOD level, of consequence to no one.
Slashdot Mirror
...and I authorized this transaction.
The Stone Age didn't end for lack of Stone, it ended because people realized that stone was a pretty lousy fuel for their cars, SUVs, and jetboats.
or, maybe the title has something to do with this book...
No, I'm sure you're right, they just picked a few random german-sounding words out of the air.
Bah. I recall some similar, "frightening" studies involving kids being unable to tie their shoes (or learn knots in general) due to the popularity of this "Velcro" stuff on shoes.
As near as I can tell, Civilization hasn't collapsed yet. Screw handwriting.
No, all you need is the authorization number to settle. If you haven't settled within a week (because you haven't shipped the goods), the authorization is cancelled by the bank.
I just checked the documentation for two major CC transports, Vital Technologies (former VISANet) and Novus. For the methods that I looked up, both required CC# and authorization # on settlement. Therefore you are responsible for storing these somewhere safe in between.
You're saying that you can't trust your employees, so you should just throw all security precautions to the wind? That would fly really well..
I'm not saying that at all -- only pointing out that there is a very strong flaw in the whole system. I agree with what other people have mentioned, that putting all of our faith into a 15-17 digit number maybe isn't the best method available.
"Criminals as employees" is completely relevant, if you're considering as an option storing the CC# somewhere for a very short time and then destroying it -- as in "its only in the order database for 5 minutes, so its unlikely that somebody will steal it." A secure system shouldn't be built around the premise that the users are beyond reproach, its bad for the systems and bad for the user. I mention this only because its usually the first idea I hear from a client when considering this problem.
Slashdot is not the real world.
When you (the merchant) authorizes a credit card purchase, you need to retain the CC# for the duration of the authorization. During that time, its stored *somewhere*, right?
Also, when you go later to settle on the card and collect your $, you will need the CC# along with the authorization # to transmit to the clearinghouse. You are not allowed to settle until the goods have clearly shipped, for some types of businesses this could be several days.
So you still have to store the CC# for some period of time. I, as a master RDBMS hacker, am so godlike in my power that i set up a trigger on your highly volatile, temporary CC table to copy each new row into a hidden secret table. Then I go pick that up later.
It doesn't matter if you keep the records around for minutes or years, someone with the right skills and opportunity (ie. your underpaid DBA) can get through.
Slashdot is not the real world.
I wonder if Larry Ellison would be so pissed about ranking behind Gates... Perhaps theres an OracleDot.org somewhere in an alternate universe full of angry Ellison worshippers?
Ellison and Gates should rent out Caesar's Palace boxing ring, put on gloves, and settle the whole thing once and for all.
--
Thats interesting that they charged your credit card -- merchant policy about this is fairly clear: the seller cannot "settle" on your card until the merchandise has shipped. To settle on the card before the goods have been shipped is a fairly major breach of their merchant agreement.
I'm assuming one of two things: 1. the seller is a US Corp or has a merchant account based in the US, or that the credit card policies are similar world-wide. (Yeah, big assumption, I know, so you can skip the US-centric flames...)
It'd be interesting to mention that bit to your issuing bank and see what they do...
IANAL or anything, I just write software that processes credit cards...
--
the shell "cmd.exe", NT's default command shell, handles spaces just fine - no problems.
the NT shell's bastard illegitimate cousin, "command.com", is stupid about long file names, spaces in names, and everything else.
None of this changes the fact that ancient MSDOS support sucks and should go away, soon. Why use ME anyhow? If you're forced to use M$ products why not use w2k instead of son-of-the-return-of-Win95 ?
I read /. because the only politics that I have to read is about privacy/technology legistlation.
Perhaps your view of "politics" is more focused than mine, but how is this any different than the incredibly strong Anti-Corporate/Pro-Open Source Movement of Slashdot throughout?
If CmdrTaco said "And by the way, I hate Microsoft's compilers, I'd rather use MalignantC++ 3.0 instead" his comment would be universally hailed as the teachings of a heroic Freedom Fighter.
Pot. Kettle. Black.
Do you never listen to the radio?
Heres a tip: Not every CD found in a typical record store can also be found playing currently on the radio dial.
There are plenty of genres where you'll buy first and discover your mistake later -- for example I have a number of recordings of Mozart's "Great" Mass in Cm by different performers. Some were worth it, some were not.
Lets look a little bit beyond the top-40, please..
I'm sure such an object would have great value to the Nazi artifact collectors out there... shades of the massive marks paid for 'Hitler's Diaries' a few (15?) years ago...
I'm sure you could find plenty of 'underground' nazi/war item collectors would be happy to have such a device, showing it only to their friend collectors...
>You'd think these people were actively rooting
>for MS in the case, and get a stranglehold
> on the software world's air supply on the rebound
I don't find this surprising at all. CNN = Time/Warner = AOL, who doesn't want to find themselves up next on the Monopolist chopping block. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Sure, it has been pretty easy to get a large amount of momentum against M$ and Windows -- who hasn't watched win95/98 crash while screaming obscenities? How much more difficult will it be to bring public opinion against TimeWarner? I'm talking the non technical unwashed masses here, not those who understand the implications of an AOL dominated world where the Internet becomes the next Pay-Per-View, and the freedom of information is a distant memory...
the real question is: have we been ranting against the wrong force all this time? I'm much more concerned about TimeWarners/AOLs ability to control the flow of information than I ever was about M$'s shoddy products.
'course, maybe I'm all wrong, and AOL will turn out to be the best thing since DVDs, Region codes, and encryption being made illegal. *shrug*
Somebody's got to say it...
Have they looked on eBay yet for it?
"the information was encrypted..."
Right, it was stored on the hard drive as a series of magnetic patterns representing
0's and 1's. They'll NEVER figure that out...
Nth Final Fantasy -- if you've got endless sequels to a "Final" Fantasy, then its not really final, is it...
Oh well, the games are cool and the movie should be at least entertaining...
Final Fantasy MCCXII - the "FINAL" Final Fantasy (we promise!)
I for one am glad to see this sort of logic. There have been way too many incidents in our (Humanity's) past similar to:
Explorer1> Look, an indiginous people. We should make an attempt to learn from them, to peacefully coexist with their...WOW, they've got GOLD! Fsck 'em! [sounds of machine guns firing]
This sort of foreward thinking is refreshing. As long as the Europans don't have gold or oil or something, perhaps we'd leave them alone. (Sidenote: fossil fuels on Europa - wouldn't THAT screw with a few theories..)
Of course I'm way too cynical to actually believe any of that, but its a nice thought.
PsI
Ok, so this is a dumb question I'm sure but...
If the medium is readable, then wouldn't it be possible to put the disks in any drive capable of translating the medium(*) into 1s and 0s, and then read off the raw 1s and 0s to be reconstructed by another program later?
I mean, if the 1/0s are still there, then SOMETHING can read them, it requires "only the will to do so." If the data was valuable enough, then time/$ could be spent to make it happen.
(*) The obvious problem - a device to read the medium. Still, as long as information about how these devices worked survives, a new reader could be built (perhaps 50-100 yrs in the future) that conforms to the old specs...
Maybe I'm being a little too optimistic here...why doesn't that idea work?
Hmm, an interesting thought. So will the so called 'splintering' of Linux be the breakthrough that FreeBSD needs? Or is it 'too late'?
Personally, I'd rather see the modification and diversity of linux continue, to a point. It seems in line with the attitude that "we've got to fight the 'One World, One [Insert Giant SW/HW company here]' people!" So will the diversity allow linux to flourish in ways that we can't currently understand, or kill it, like certain media pundits think?
Better to be dynamic than static, to a certain point. The model seems to have worked OK for hardware/PC clone manufacturers in the past...
I read Alex Garland's novel (the one this movie is based on) a while back and thought to myself
that it wasn't that bad of a novel, tho obviously an authors early work in their carreer.
A little rough in places and WAY too similar to Lord of the Flies...
And then I saw a preview for the movie, with "gosh-I'm-so-Cute" diCaprio and thought well, they're going to ruin that one...
I have no plans to go see the movie... based on what I've seen from the previews / trailers it looks like just another poorly made movie, loosely based on an OK novel, but all jacked up to a sensational HOLLYWOOD level, of consequence to no one.
-PsI