That brings back memories of my Bridgestone MB-1...ahh, those were the days. I still hadn't caught on to computers, and bicycles were my great love. To tell the truth, I do live in Italy now, and ride a sweet custom Morello steel ride with campy parts, although I spend too much time with the computers and not enough out riding...
Bridgestones were nice bikes. High quality, low on buzzword crap. Light, fast, strong. I miss the days befor suspension and "gnarly d00dz extreme sportz" got ahold of mountain biking. Just a bunch of guys out riding on cool trails... sigh.
Good theory, but the article explains why it doesn't work in practice: Debian has to be installable on 11 different architectures, and they have gone for a lowest common denominator approach (instead of, say, having a different, graphical install for x86 and maybe ppc).
I agree with other comments. I can do without the graphics, but it's nice to whip through hardware detection without opening another console and digging through/proc.
68k, sparc, alpha, arm, mips, hppa, ia64 and s390 in addition to 'sh' and opteron.
I do not believe that there are non-free (i.e official) java versions available for many of these.
Also, looking around, it appears that PPC Linux doesn't have the latest Java.
BSD - FreeBSD does have Java, IIRC, but how about Net or OpenBSD? On something other than Intel?
My point is that Java the implementation (as opposed to just the language which of course is quite portable) is not yet nearly as portable as a lot of other common software.
You say Java runs on Linux, but what you really mean is that it runs on x86-linux. It's not open source software, and hasn't been ported far and wide like gcc, tcl, python etc... Maybe gcj will change that, despite the fact that most Java people seem to not be very concerned about running on a non-free platform.
Java is the Cobol of the next millenium. You know, '00' and onwards. Millions and millions of lines of code barfed out for businesses. Nothing lovingly handcrafted to see here.
So it's a warmed over Suse desktop. What actually differentiates it from Suse aside from including some proprietary browser plugins and some java freeware?
Not really. The rules are clear and simple. Use namespaces to keep things distinct. Split code up into small, reusable pieces. Evaluation is evaluation. You can shoot yourself in the foot with it in any language. Tcl is pretty easy to parse or create from Tcl, so sometimes people get too clever, but there is a good culture of writing clear, clean, well documented code, so I find that it doesn't happen too often.
Tcl has a lot going for it. It has a very nice C API, is simple to work with, is extendable to deal with more complex problems (namespaces, OO), and is easy to read 6 months down the road.
The "problem", if there is one, with Tcl is that it is not fashionable. Instead, lots of people just use it to get their jobs done quickly without lots of chest thumping, willy waving, and enterprise enabling.
It would be more obvious if Sun didn't spend millions of dollars marketing Java as the answer to everything. That clouds people's perceptions. *Especially* management types that don't have the experience to tell the hype from the reality.
Apparently they will also be doing a 'city to city tour' showcasing their fabulous technology:
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030915/lam101_1.html
Needless to say, a great opportunity to organize something with your local LUG to show up and politely make people aware that this is not a good company to be doing business with.
The tour supposedly visits:
-- October 7th, Toronto -- October 8th, Newark -- October 9th, Boston -- October 14th, Minneapolis -- October 15th, Chicago -- October 16th, St. Louis -- October 21st, Vancouver -- October 22nd, Irvine -- October 23rd, Dallas -- October 28th, Atlanta -- October 29th, Orlando
I didn't say I was rooting for him. I don't like the idea of software patents more than the next guy. However I felt it was correct to point out that this particular person may not use his power in a bad way.
Of course, it would be better if we weren't in the position of having to trust him...
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit2002110 7. html
It's well worth a read, as it becomes apparent that maybe Eolas doesn't want to stop *everybody* from using the technology, or squeeze cash out of them.
In terms of Open Source involvement, Mike Doyle is actually a respected member of the Tcl comunity.
By picking a fight with IBM and the free software comunity, SCO has backed itself into a corner. The company faces a very real possibility of not existing in several years if they don't win their case convincingly. Where does this leave all their partners who have based businesses on their products? Up a creek. Here's where you, the Linux consultant come in: why not reach out to these people and help them transition away from SCO's crappy products?
Many have enjoyed how easy Tk is to use and how x-platform (and x-language) compatible it is, much easier and more stable than other toolkits mentioned.
A common complaint has been the default Motif look and feel on unix (this is easy to change, but many don't bother changing the defaults). This is about to change. Tk 8.5, currently in development, is going to represent a major revamp of Tk. Basic things like updated default look and feel as well as enhancing the core widget base (there are 100s of widgets for Tk, but only 15 in the "core").
This is also meant to target all Tk users (not just Tcl users). There are lots of widgets out there only available to Tcl/Tk users that could be made available to Perl/Python/Ruby/R/Lua/etc if a better framework were used so widget authors understood the basics of having their widgets used by multiple languages. Numerous other enhancements are planned, all to be done on a tight schedule (we don't like waiting for software). You can see the a wiki for this work being built at http://tcl.projectforum.com/tk/
1) Tk is very fast to develop with. You can get good gui's out quickly.
2) So now you want to do a complex, involved gui? You can do that too. Don't like stuff that was thrown together quickly by people who don't know anything about GUI design fool you. It's hard work, and it takes a different set of skills. Just because Tk made GUI programming available to just about everyone, don't judge it on the results of everyone trying to do GUI's!
3) Tk has been around for a while, is well tested, well known, and well built. It is the toolkit of choice for Tcl, Python, and lots of other languages.
4) Of course, it is open source, and lots of people use it and know it. If you want to improve it, you can.
(1) "Because pretty much the main drawback of Java is that it severly limits which platforms you can distribute to, ironically."
(2) "Let's assume for a second that you are correct, and Java limits the platforms you can distribute to. Tell me again exactly how GCJ improves on that?"
Because GCJ runs on all the platforms gcc does, which is pretty much everything out there. Java officially doesn't run on all kinds of platforms. Linux is only supported on x86 and ppc, IIRC, not to mention the various BSD's...
Also, GCJ is free software, so that means that it if there's the will, people can and will port it.
"cool, useful", and crammed down my throat by a huge corporation. That doesn't mean it isn't good, for some things, but I can't bloody stand how pervasive the thing has become because of the corporate weight behind it, rather than technical merit.
Slashdot Mirror
That brings back memories of my Bridgestone MB-1...ahh, those were the days. I still hadn't caught on to computers, and bicycles were my great love. To tell the truth, I do live in Italy now, and ride a sweet custom Morello steel ride with campy parts, although I spend too much time with the computers and not enough out riding...
Bridgestones were nice bikes. High quality, low on buzzword crap. Light, fast, strong. I miss the days befor suspension and "gnarly d00dz extreme sportz" got ahold of mountain biking. Just a bunch of guys out riding on cool trails... sigh.
Good theory, but the article explains why it doesn't work in practice: Debian has to be installable on 11 different architectures, and they have gone for a lowest common denominator approach (instead of, say, having a different, graphical install for x86 and maybe ppc).
/proc.
I agree with other comments. I can do without the graphics, but it's nice to whip through hardware detection without opening another console and digging through
I was sure the 3rd one was going to end with Keanu Reeves waking up and looking shocked...
"Bill, I had this most heinous dream dude!"
Maybe the evil robot Bill and Ted took over and wrecked the 3rd film.
When we talk about Open Source, we don't just mean that the source code is available, we mean something along these lines:
http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.php
which is pretty similar to what the FSF defines as 'free'.
Debian runs on the following architectures:
68k, sparc, alpha, arm, mips, hppa, ia64 and s390 in addition to 'sh' and opteron.
I do not believe that there are non-free (i.e official) java versions available for many of these.
Also, looking around, it appears that PPC Linux doesn't have the latest Java.
BSD - FreeBSD does have Java, IIRC, but how about Net or OpenBSD? On something other than Intel?
My point is that Java the implementation (as opposed to just the language which of course is quite portable) is not yet nearly as portable as a lot of other common software.
You say Java runs on Linux, but what you really mean is that it runs on x86-linux. It's not open source software, and hasn't been ported far and wide like gcc, tcl, python etc... Maybe gcj will change that, despite the fact that most Java people seem to not be very concerned about running on a non-free platform.
Java is the Cobol of the next millenium. You know, '00' and onwards. Millions and millions of lines of code barfed out for businesses. Nothing lovingly handcrafted to see here.
Tcl has had an event loop built in for years. And you're right, it's a very good way of doing things.
So it's a warmed over Suse desktop. What actually differentiates it from Suse aside from including some proprietary browser plugins and some java freeware?
The ending for the 3rd film:
Keanu Reeves wakes up in his bed with a shocked look on his face, runs to the phone and makes a call: "Bill, I had this most heinous dream, dude!".
... wonder if they have paid their SCO tax?
Not really. The rules are clear and simple. Use namespaces to keep things distinct. Split code up into small, reusable pieces. Evaluation is evaluation. You can shoot yourself in the foot with it in any language. Tcl is pretty easy to parse or create from Tcl, so sometimes people get too clever, but there is a good culture of writing clear, clean, well documented code, so I find that it doesn't happen too often.
The "problem", if there is one, with Tcl is that it is not fashionable. Instead, lots of people just use it to get their jobs done quickly without lots of chest thumping, willy waving, and enterprise enabling.
It would be more obvious if Sun didn't spend millions of dollars marketing Java as the answer to everything. That clouds people's perceptions. *Especially* management types that don't have the experience to tell the hype from the reality.
Apparently they will also be doing a 'city to city tour' showcasing their fabulous technology:
l
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030915/lam101_1.htm
Needless to say, a great opportunity to organize something with your local LUG to show up and politely make people aware that this is not a good company to be doing business with.
The tour supposedly visits:
-- October 7th, Toronto
-- October 8th, Newark
-- October 9th, Boston
-- October 14th, Minneapolis
-- October 15th, Chicago
-- October 16th, St. Louis
-- October 21st, Vancouver
-- October 22nd, Irvine
-- October 23rd, Dallas
-- October 28th, Atlanta
-- October 29th, Orlando
I didn't say I was rooting for him. I don't like the idea of software patents more than the next guy. However I felt it was correct to point out that this particular person may not use his power in a bad way.
Of course, it would be better if we weren't in the position of having to trust him...
The article you are thinking of is here:
0 7. html
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit200211
It's well worth a read, as it becomes apparent that maybe Eolas doesn't want to stop *everybody* from using the technology, or squeeze cash out of them.
In terms of Open Source involvement, Mike Doyle is actually a respected member of the Tcl comunity.
http://www.advogato.org/article/702.html
http://www.vnunet.com/News/1143155
"As far as I'm concerned it's an issue between SCO and IBM, and I expect that IBM's resources will win the day,"
Many have enjoyed how easy Tk is to use and how x-platform (and
x-language) compatible it is, much easier and more stable than other
toolkits mentioned.
A common complaint has been the default Motif look and feel on unix
(this is easy to change, but many don't bother changing the
defaults). This is about to change. Tk 8.5, currently in development,
is going to represent a major revamp of Tk. Basic things like updated
default look and feel as well as enhancing the core widget base (there
are 100s of widgets for Tk, but only 15 in the "core").
This is also meant to target all Tk users (not just Tcl users). There
are lots of widgets out there only available to Tcl/Tk users that
could be made available to Perl/Python/Ruby/R/Lua/etc if a better
framework were used so widget authors understood the basics of having
their widgets used by multiple languages. Numerous other enhancements
are planned, all to be done on a tight schedule (we don't like waiting
for software). You can see the a wiki for this work being built at
http://tcl.projectforum.com/tk/
1) Tk is very fast to develop with. You can get good gui's out quickly.
2) So now you want to do a complex, involved gui? You can do that too. Don't like stuff that was thrown together quickly by people who don't know anything about GUI design fool you. It's hard work, and it takes a different set of skills. Just because Tk made GUI programming available to just about everyone, don't judge it on the results of everyone trying to do GUI's!
3) Tk has been around for a while, is well tested, well known, and well built. It is the toolkit of choice for Tcl, Python, and lots of other languages.
4) Of course, it is open source, and lots of people use it and know it. If you want to improve it, you can.
If you look at their stock chart for Monday:
p =s &t=1d&l=on&z=m&q=l
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=SCOX&d=c&k=c1&a=v&
You can see where it was really headed down the tubes, and then this announcement came along at 'just the right moment', and propped things up a bit.
If they can do it, so can you:
http://www.newtechusa.com/PPI/talent.asp
(1) "Because pretty much the main drawback of Java is that it severly limits which platforms you can distribute to, ironically."
(2) "Let's assume for a second that you are correct, and Java limits the platforms you can distribute to. Tell me again exactly how GCJ improves on that?"
Because GCJ runs on all the platforms gcc does, which is pretty much everything out there. Java officially doesn't run on all kinds of platforms. Linux is only supported on x86 and ppc, IIRC, not to mention the various BSD's...
Also, GCJ is free software, so that means that it if there's the will, people can and will port it.
"cool, useful", and crammed down my throat by a huge corporation. That doesn't mean it isn't good, for some things, but I can't bloody stand how pervasive the thing has become because of the corporate weight behind it, rather than technical merit.