Slashdot Mirror
The Matrix: Resolutions
Slappy White writes "For six months, Matrix message boards were aflame with speculation, theories, predictions and outright psychotic guessing about Revolutions. Now the film is here, and this article has a humorous roundup of some of the popular theories, both those that were close and others that were, shall we say, a little off the mark." I still haven't seen this film, so I'll refrain from passing judgment, but I'm ever so happy the matrix-within-a-matrix theories were unfounded. Update: 11/09 02:38 GMT by CN : Some folks who've never seen the Twilight Zone or even the Simpsons' Treehouse of Horrors thought that was a spoiler. If you're one of those people, I'm very sorry.
I always subscribed to the Matrix withinside a Matrix theory. Well.. Too bad. The movie wasn't that great, but at least it was better than Reloaded.
And why did you staple the trout to the RAM?
well as i said there's no more text in this posting. just thank you for the spoiler, CN!
Newt-dog
My Doctor prescribed daily nasal saline irrigation, hehe
"I still haven't seen this film, so I'll refrain from passing judgment, but I'm ever so happy the matrix-within-a-matrix theories were unfounded."
I guess 4 days was too long to wait to see the movie before slashdot would post spoilers on the front page.
The worst thing in Revolution theory - they did not told us HOW EXACTLY can Neo stop machines in real world? They say something... "He is the one - so it's obvious" - but it is really not obvious. I suppose that there will be no Matrix IV, V or VI (they told us so), but there can be something like "Neo", "Neo Reloaded", "Neo Revolutions" movies ;-)
To me, Revolutions has come the closest to accomplishing what the first Matrix did. The plot was so much better, flowed nicely, and the dialog was easy to understand yet had those hidden philosophy messages which is what made the first movie so successful.
The special effects were amazing as well.
What got me was the amazing ending. It was unexpected in someways, but totally made sense when you consider everything that happened in the movie.
Also there still is enough unanswered questions that another trilogy could be created if they ever wanted to. They will probably wait 10-20 years before doing another trilogy if they ever wanted to.
I disagree. The matrix within a matrix theory was well founded, but it proved wrong. These are not the same thing. If I told you I have a ripe strawberry in my hand, you would have the well founded belief that it is red, because ripe strawberries are red. But if it were blue, it doesn't mean that your belief was unfounded, at least until you saw the strwbrry.
Logic, macros, and more
I'm ever so happy the matrix-within-a-matrix theories were unfounded.
Thanks. I was going to find that out myself at the 2:30 Matinee, but it's much better that you posted that on the main page.
/bin/fortune | slashdotsig.sh
How about not posting a spoiler in the article summary next time? Thanks.
"...whatever third (Matrix) movie you envisioned in your head, no matter how lame, has got to be better than this."
-critic at Rotten Tomatoes.com on The Matrix: Revolutions
Oh, we beg to differ...
The Matrix Resolutions
167 Days of Fan Speculation, Revisited
by Jay Pinkerton and David Wong
Like brainwashed pod prisoners attached to a futuristic power plant of some kind, fans of popular science fiction used to spend their lives cocooned in their parents' basements, cut off from human contact. They floated dreamily in the pink and slimy make-believe world of their favorite films, with a bundle of "hoses" crammed into their "colons" that would, in a strictly symbolic sense, "vacuum their excrement."
The Matrix changed all that. Now science fiction fans are popular, well-adjusted studs and hotties who leave their houses to play racquetball and extreme-parachute out of helicopters. When not risking their lives and having fantastic sex, these fans met online to discuss their well-rounded and not-at-all-crazy hypotheses as to what these films mean and, more importantly, to guess how the series would conclude after Reloaded.
We here at PWoT spent a year of strenuous weight training and greased-hands rock climbing getting our web comedian bodies into a shape that could pass for Matrix fans, allowing allow us to tunnel inside their online underground unnoticed. What we found was six months' worth of theorizing, philosophizing and thirteen other kinds of mental Kung-Fu in feverish preparation for the final film, everyone trying to unlock its mysteries beforehand.
Some of you out there, admittedly, were very close. Others of you were idiots. But all of you tried, and by our estimates the following debates consumed some 400 billion hours of internet time and generated approximately 75.2 quadrillion misspelled words.
Debate #1: Will the Machines be Destroyed?
Debate #2: Is There a Matrix Within a Matrix?
Debate #3: Will The Twins Be Back?
Debate #4: Who's The One?
Debate #5: Was It All a Dream?
Debate #6: Who's Human? Who's a Machine?
Debate #7: Who's The Bad Guy Here?
Debate #8: Who'll Win the Big Fight?
Debate #9: Who Will Die?
Debate #10: Is This the End?
DEBATE #1: WILL THE MACHINES BE DESTROYED?
Though every internet debate was a potential landmine for Matrix fans, at least one theory had almost total online support: the film would end with Neo handing Agent Smith his lunch. Neo would then take over the Matrix and hand that pretentious Architect his lunch by forcing the defeated Colonel Sanders impersonator to fellate him, maybe even rubbing salt in his wounds with some "Oh, look - now your mouth's full, vis-a-vis my dick!" trash talk.
Humans could then reclaim the surface of their scorched planet and free their empodded brethren. The third act would portray six billion naked humans gleefully slaughtering the machines by the tens of millions, humanity racing against the clock to sneak in some last-minute genocide before mass starvation and sterilization from nuclear fallout rendered their own species extinct.
Savvy Matrix fans took one look at all that business in Reloaded where the film-makers tried to humanize the machines, and instinctively knew it was all only to make their inevitable destruction and torture that much more satisfying for us, the viewers. Once and for all, we knew, humankind would have its revenge on the machines' for having the gall to trick us into blotting out our own sky and making our planet unhabitable.
Or maybe not. To the surprise of many fans already sketching fairly graphic notebook drawings of slaughtered machines with smoke pouring out of their eye cavities, Revolutions instead gave us man and machine, living in some kind of weird state of... not-war. (Sadly, no word has been invented for this yet).
This confused and outraged many Matrix fans, who'd already spent hours on the web explaining that man and computers could never really live in such
oh, i forgot to mention there's pleanty of scenes with dykes blowing up drilling machines.
I saw it last nite on the local ultra-screen, it was great. The fight scenes were less gratuitous than reloaded it seemed, but i don't think either of the movies can really stand on their own. Taken as a whole they're one kick ass 5 hour movie, but i think revolutions was the better of the two. As for the conclusion, it left some questions, but they really had to end it that way, there wasnt any other way to wrap up the series. Also, a question, the kid who greets them when the nebuchadnezzar returns to the dock in reloaded(hes got a bigger part in revolutions...), is he the skateboad kid from the one animatrix film, we couldn't decide that last nite.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
Where's the theory that it's all real, the machines wised onto the fact that people were catching on, and modified the Matrix to make the last movie crap and therefore spoil the franchise, ending the crusade for enlightenment?
Well, that's my theory anyway, nothing else makes a lot of sense. Back to sleep, folks.
I'm going to go see Matrix Revolutions in 1 hour, and you go and dash one of my theories that there was a Matrix within the Matrix.
THANKS
Matt Fahrenbacher
James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
I just came back from watching it! Saturday night show at 9.15pm! I bought the tickets on Wednesday! When I bought them, I noticed some of the cinemas (I went to a 12 Screens Cinema) are already half full purchased by customers, and that was on Wednesday! Of course, the wednesday shows are all sold out, being first day and all! Luckily I managed to get the last row - middle seats!
The story were awesome!! Prior to watching it, some colleagues mentioned that they heard rumours saying it is not up to expectations. I said, rubbish! I've seen it and probably they didn't like the ending so they call it 'not to expectations', not bull-shit, horse shit more like it! You have to watch and understand the first two films before you watch the third one, you can't simply jump in. I admit watching the first one twice before I fully understand what the hell is going on in that sick world of the Matrix! Digressing a bit, but I remembered watching Akira at least half a dozen times before fully understanding the whole story. Okay, maybe I'm a bit slow of mind.. Reminds me of Sergio Aragones' Groo the Wanderer.. Mendicant!
Caution, minor spoiler!
I like the final battle part, I don't think Mech Warrior game have anything like it.. Not even the Robotech/Macross have anything as intense.
CAUTION! MAJOR SPOILER AHEAD!
Allright, I'll let you in on a little secret!
The Bad Guys lost!
Will sys-admin for food
In Matrix Revolutions they say that Neo is connected to the matrix via 'the source.' Isn't 'the source' then a higher level matrix? Meaning that the 'matrix within a matrix' theories were in fact correct? I mean, duh.
And the oracle said Neo needs to be ready to be told about 'the source' just as he needed to be ready to take the red pill.
So, matrix within a matrix doubters, wake up and watch the film, you know, that thing on the screen.
It requires concentration on the plot rather than the glitzy graphics I know, but I'm sure you can try.
oh come on!
"but I'm ever so happy the matrix-within-a-matrix theories were unfounded."
i specifically didn't click on the goddam link, and then that sentence caught my eye. you twats! (clearly not amused)
I was on my way to see Matrix Revolutions, checked movie times, checked Slashdot for a sec before my bus came, what do I see? The first article, at the top of the main page, reads "I'm glad those matrix within a matrix theories were unfounded." So thank you very f@$%ing much! You think you could bury details about movie plots at least ONE click inside, please?!
Now I have to go see "Elf", try to burn the brain cells that contain this info...
This is what the above website has to say on the subject:
Great. That says nothing. Absolutely nothing. As I say in my review, the Oracle's comment is an observation, not an explanation. It's like saying that the reason a car will not work is because it will not go. He has a connection with "the source" - and?Lest anyone think that this is a message backing the Twin Matrix theory, it isn't that either. I thought it was fairly obvious what Revolutions was trying to do: it was leaving all of these questions open. There's room in Revolutions for most of the explanations people came up with. Unfortunately so many people wanted a nice tidy ending with Neo and Trinity living happily ever after and everything "explained" that they've kind of missed it all.
I think it's a good sequel. But then I wanted something other than the usual Hollywood mindless happy endings. YMMV.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Neo: Never. I'll never be assimilated. You've failed, Agent Smith. I am the One, like all the ones before me.
Agent Smith: So be it... One.
[rays come out of his hand, electrocuting Neo. One of the Agents turns into the Oracle, she comes, and throws Agent Smith into space, and dies. Oracle dies in Neo's hands...]
[Fade away]
[Drum music in Zion, Zionites having a rave party using Sentinel parts as percusion instruments.]
[Neo burns the body of Trinity, and she appears in yellow vapor form, as well as the Oracle, the Architect and even Tank]
"There is no teacher but the enemy."-Mazer Rackham
I can't figure out what people are complaining about. It was a great movie, particularly if you consider all three movies to be one story. Granted, you have to like that sort of movie and you have to actually have an attention span, but if you do you should enjoy it. Basically if you like anime movies like Akira or the Gundam Wing series or Marvel's X-men comics (lots of action and some heavy pontificating) it should be right up your alley. I really enjoyed it.
Maybe folks are complaining about the ending. (no I'm not going to give it away) It was surprising and very non-traditional but really good too. I thought it was a great close to the story arc. Leaves future sequels as a possibility too.
I was disappointed at first with Revolutions.
However, last night I watched Reloaded again.
You have to pay great attention during Reloaded to find your answers to the Matrix. They dont make sense if you've only seen movies 1 and 2, but they do if you've seen all 3. In particular, listen to what the architect says.
While some may say reloaded is about reloading the Matrix....note that the Matrix never did get reloaded....but something the architect says makes me think different. And it explains Neo's sudden ability to interact with the machine world outside of the Matrix.
www.atacomm.com - The Leader in VoIP Product Distributi
I'm a matrix fan, but this movie was the biggest piece of dung I'm seen in a while. It's as if they ran out of money and had an amateur write and direct. It's just one big, boring shoot-em-up- machines spew through the dome at 10,000 per second and the dozen humans somehow manage to shoot every last one. Whatever.
the matrix-within-the-matrix is not unfounded... you still don't know all there is to know about the matrix and you never will... there are still questions unanswered as in, how neo could destroy sentinels out of thin air...
Natural-Selection Be
Just kidding, I like Geos.
...Epically bad. I predicted in 10 years the Wachowski Brothers, having yet to produced another hit, will make a fourth film to further shit all over good cinema.
In case you didn't notice, I was being sarcastic.
What the fuck were you thinking when you posted "but I'm ever so happy the matrix-within-a-matrix theories were unfounded."
Asshole
"but I'm ever so happy the matrix-within-a-matrix theories were unfounded."
Thanks for the spoil! You had to have done this intentionally, which pretty much shows how you feel about your readers.
Hear, hear.
:-P
Cowboyneal, please use your update:ly powers to axe that line before you piss off everyone.
After all, some people haven't read the article yet.
-the "Trainman" was the gyrocopter guy from Mad Max
-the face from Tron
-the "face ship" modelled after the ships from Buckaroo Banzai
-Robotech/Macross mecha
-in the club... "CYPHERMEN" from THE INVISIBLES
-Monica Bellucci is a fox.
-in the Matrix... the programmers are all from India
-the "Merovingians" were a line of kings in Southern France before the Middle Ages who believed themselves to be direct descendants of Jesus Christ. the Catholic Church wiped them out along with the Cathars, Gnostics and the Templars.
-everyone needs to read THE INVISIBLES
-there was more but I forgot it on the way home.
. SLASHDOT: Home of the vicious nerd.
Nice spoiler, a******.
** A Sketch a Week **
http://www.sketchplease.com
Matrix within Matrix was unfounded? Depends what you think is a Matrix ;-)
I agree wholeheartedly. The ending was unexpected, but it was the obvious choice in retrospect. I guess a lot of sci-fi geeks expected a geek ending to a geek movie, with machines being blown to bits :) and sun in the sky. In other words, a totally unrealistic, feel-good, hollywood ending. When it didn't happen, people felt betrayed. Even more so since the ending is far from happy.
Isn't that like having multiple nested User Mode Linux instances?
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
This explanation, while not perfect, is the best I've seen so far.
The universe in which the robots and humans reside is a *simulation* (not another matrix, but a simulation). The robots are vaguely aware of this, and have developed methods which allow them to manipulate the *real* universe a little. This manipulation is how they are able to program "people" and how agent smith is able to download himself into that guy. There would have been a great sub-plot about how the robots discovered this -- through their disection of humans (in the animatrix) they discover the biological equivalent of DEBUGGING facilities in humans. They discover strange indecipherable messages in biological processess. Even a monkey for a directory could have made this a memorable scene.
In retrospect, the point of the second movie would have been to demonstrate that the robots could program humans -- with food. With cookies, with pills, etc etc.
And finally, Neo, while not aware that the "real" universe is also a simulation, is able to manipulate it slightly as well -- this is why he can make shit blow up, and see without eyes.
Hollywood, I am your messiah and I'm unemployed :)
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
Why?
That would have been more interesting than the nonsensical mess we got instead...
Thanks a lot asshole.
--
Marc A. Lepage
Software Developer
but I'm ever so happy the matrix-within-a-matrix theories were unfounded.
The thing about this whole silly series is that the producers can keep up making BS forever and people will keep going to see it. (and even if there are holes in the plot, people will theorize around it!) The whole premise is that you don't the full truth, hence, you can keep adding new twists. In 3 years, there'll be a new Matrix movie where we find out that Neo and Trinity are still alive because they just transcended to the next layer of the Matrix. (heck, they could be played by different actors) Or if not that, it'll be something more mundane like the machines take over again and enter a new version of Neo and Smith. But that likely wouldn't sell as well..
I really liked Galvatron Solves the Matrix. He raised some interesting points, and may still be right.
The original thread is from here.
___ alwaysBETA.com - Hey, you've got nothing better to do.
The makers of the Matrix have said for years that it is NOT a matrix-within-a-matrix.
This is fairly common knowledge, and not, imho, a spoiler.
.
Don't they run out of things to discuss fairly quickly?
I've only seen the first Matrix movie, which was awesome. Should I see Reloaded and Revolutions, or no?
No, Thursday's out. How about never - is never good for you?
Metaphors, Analogies and the REAL
...training program?
a bit more (easy access)
There's plenty more... I've just begun drawing connections into that thread... Shall I introduce you to the woman in red
open source project
In the fourth movie Neo will come back to life and destroy SCO.
Thanks for the spoiler you fucking dipshit.
You will die alone!
I once had a dream
That I was in a Matrix
But when I took the red pill
It was Larry, not Morpheus
Who pulled me from a Perl hash.
Anybody else see it as just straight biblical allegory? I'm not even a Christian, and it seemed rather blatent (even heavy-handed) to me.
Neo - Christ
Smith - Anti-christ
Machine ruler - God
So when Neo becomes able to do all that stuff in the real world, its like the miracles of Jesus. He can do it because he has "a connection to the source" --- in other words a connection to the divine. When he's fighting Agent Smith, Smith loses when he finally calls Neo "Neo" (instead of "Mr. Anderson" has he had been doing up to this point). That means he acknowledges Neo's status (accepts him as their savior) and is thus destroyed. Of course, Neo dies (sacrifices himself for his race) in a very cruxification-like scene (complete with cross-shaped light right before the end). All that stuff at the end about Neo potentially coming back is an allusion to the messiah.
Or it could be something else entirely. To tell the truth, I don't care. The last two movies are pretty crappy (though I loved the first). The dialogue was truely bad --- those writers need to be shot, and the plot seemed very strained --- a lot of going from A to B because C said to.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Congratulations. Let's see who bites.
Why, with so much potential for a vehicle for social protest and genuine outrage with the course of human events, does Hollywood have to cheapen it with dead ends and confusion? This went from a BMW 7 Series to a Yugo in seconds flat. I'm thoroghly disappointed.
The nice thing about all of this is that we all KNOW Peter Jackson won't screw up Return of the King. First of all we all know the story (or enough people do). And second of all if he did screw it up you know 100,000 pure geek, D&D playing, sword weilding, socially inept refugees from their parent's basement would hunt him down like a band of Nagazuhl Ring Wraiths!
Peace
A lot of people are trying to save the movie, saying that it had a much deeper meaning, or that it somehow left questions unanswered.
I didn't really see that. My entire problem with the movie was that it took everything from the second movie at face value.
The Architect had to be lying, there weren't six other Ones! It was a ruse to manipulate Neo's emotions! (Yes, there were six other Ones.)
Neo can control machines outside the Matrix! There must be something deep and meaningful and cool and have a big twist at the end because of this seemingly impossible feat!
(No, he can do it "just because he can", which basically adds another layer of fiction on top of the triology that I'm not sure I'm willing to accept.)
The sad thing is, all of the twists in the plot were given in Reloaded. While I have no problem with giving twists in the second film, I do have a problem with the twists amounting to nothing more than "we threw these twists in here, but don't expect us to do anything more with them".
On a lighter note, Revolutions did have a *lot* less gratuitous fighting. The scene that irritated me the most in Reloaded was "You cannot know someone until you fight them." (Translation: "Holy crap! Fighting really sold the first one! Find every opportunity possible to throw a fight into the second one!")
All-in-all, I'm becoming more and more party to the theory that, while The Matrix was originally intended to be a triology, they didn't think it would do well enough to make three, and therefore rolled all three into one.
Either way, the general review: More watchable but less interesting than the second, and, much like Episodes I and II of Star Wars, should not be considered part of the canon.
...but it's being eaten...by some...Linux or something...
In this case, daddypants@slashdot.org was being forwarded somewhere else, but the emails were bouncing:
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
Still, there are some holes in Revolutions that are pretty gaping. I think they got pressure from the studios that it was too long, or to make a marketing gimmick out of it like so: 1) cut out the philosophical stuff, leave all of the formulaic rah-rah machine/zion battle (notice a lot of other scenes that feel like they just end too quickly, like when Neo gets to cry for like 2 seconds when Trinity dies; 2) give it all back in the super-extended-directors-cut-special-edition DVD, which will probably come out after everyone's bought the regular-super-special-edition of the trilogy. Everybody (almost) wins.
FLAC - Free Lossless Audio Codec
Moderate spoilers......
I think it was a great movie! Neo as a christ figure, smith representing the sins of mankind and (he replicates himself untill everyon in the matrix is him), the train station (mobil=limbo), blind faith (neo), the symbolism is what makes this movie! Granted, they may have sacrificed some aspects of the film to uphold this, but I liked it.
i just got back, and while i wasn't as disappointed as most seem to be, i still walked away only thinking it was 'okay'.
after i saw reloaded, i thought that there were a lot of interesting possibilities. we had seen bane who was clearly smith, and we had seen neo take down a sentinel in the real world. a few possibilities, in order of preference:
1) neo became part machine as smith became part human, part of their meld
2) neo is the messiah, which translates to 'all worlds'
3) the real world is infact another matrix
#1 is a stretch, but it's believable in the world we're described.
#2 seems lame, as everything would be at face value and simply handed to us in reloaded
#3 breaks the movie's own rules. if they did that, however well they did it, it would effectively make anything able to be rendered invalid with a thought. 'oh, oops, another matrix!' it would be difficult, for example, to feel anything if a character was killed off. this would be similar to superman suddenly NOT being affected by kryptonite, which is a rule of that world.
i can look past some silly stuff. for example:
- morpheus gains 30lbs in an hour's time
- people start calling each other by nicknames ('merv', 'trin') in an hour's time
- the young indian girl and the trainkeeper seem to have no real purpose
- they should have selected someone other than an elderly african-american woman to be the new oracle
- sentinels weren't able to be shot at in previous movies; only emps worked
- for that matter, sentinels never relayed back to other computers when they found a ship
- the twins seemed to die pretty easy in that explosion
etc, etc, etc. all forgivable.
what i would have liked, however, are 2 key things:
1 would be the 'meld' explanation, having neo only have increasingly powerful machine abilities as smith has increasingly powerful human abilities. this would be another 'character learns his strengths' part of a movie, which is always very entertaining.
2 would be monica belluci being the mother of the matrix. the architect scoffed when neo asked if she was, and we can now unfortunately presume that it's just because he doesn't respect her terribly much or doesn't like her being referred to as 'the oracle'. it would make sense that monica belluci be the mother, having gone against the merovingian to help the good guys in reloaded, etc.
i would have also liked werewolves (vampires got enough coverage) to be better explored.
i feel like the whole architect scene in reloaded split the audience into 3:
1) people who don't really care, and just want to enjoy the story.
2) people who are turned off by all of that over-their-head mumbo jumbo
3) people who see potential depth and are intrigued
the people in group 1 will be the people in group 1 no matter what happens. the people in group 2 have been pissed off, and the people in group 3 are set up to be disappointed. in this way, i feel the movie delivered. why split the audience at all, then? why the semblance of complexity when there isn't any? if they had kept the end of reloaded simple, group 1 would stay the same, group 2 wouldn't be pissed and fall into group 1, and group 3 would accept that the movie has become more simple and be surprised if revolutions was anything but simple.
i don't know where i'm going with the rest of this, just dumping some thoughts. if i get some responses, i'm sure i'll have others.
which alot of the fighting effects came from.
1. The flying scenes.
2. The twins when they power up.
3. Kung fu and the visible impact waves.
4. People crashing through walls.
The only things missing from the film ?
1. Vegita
2. Kama Kama haaa.
3. Spirit Bomb
4. King Kai . Oh wait.....the Oracle...lol.
If DBZ is being made into a movie I recommend the Wachowski brothers.
Simply put, the Matrix-In-A-Matrix theory is dramatically untenable. It undermines any possible resolution in the films because there can always be another Matrix enclosing the last, another dream to wake up from, as it were.
For the movie to work dramatically, there needs to be some sort of possible conclusion, either to be achieved or frustrated. Setting the first two films in some sort of "higher-order" Matrix undercuts this in two ways: first, it tells the audience "hey, you know those first two movies? well, it turns out that nothing that happened in them counts, there's no real payoff, sorry about that", thus abusing the audience's investment in the fantasy world; second, it not only leaves open, but implicitly nods to the possibility that the second Matrix is in fact fraudulent as well, and that no matter how many times our heros "wake up", they'll still wake up in (another) Matrix. So the possible conclusion necessary for the narrative in the movie to function properly disappears, and all we're left with is bad acting and gee-whiz special effects.
I guess I'm in the minority here in that I find the pseudo-philosophical ruminations* of the Watchowskis tiresome and adolescent, but even I recognize that they know how to spin a good yarn, and they wouldn't ruin the dramatic structure in such an obvious way.
(*"But, like, dude, they talk about Plato on their website, and that "desert of the real" line is like, from some French post-somethingorother dude, and besides, it's so, you know, eastern." Exactly.)
the parent post links lead to spoilers, but the contents at the links also expose depth you may not grasp by just seeing the movie.
Please vote here to demand that SPOILER slaphead "Slappy White" be publicly burnt on the stake for SPOILING Matrix Revolutions for all of us?
My vote: YES PLEASE!
I'll talk out of my ass. I haven't even seen Reloaded, let alone Revolutions, but here's what I can tell based on watching the first movie and reading the published spoilers of the second and third:
Neo can pick up the machines' communication by using his "data jack" as an antenna. Because he is The One, he can understand the Japanese-designed protocol that the machines speak to each other and can jam their control programs.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Being one of those matrix in a matrix theorists who is going to be leaving to see the movie in 10 minutes, I must thank the editors for pre-ruining the movie.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
matrix doesn't seem like that big of a deal anymore that it became very apparent that their ideas were far from original... and now i wonder why people were so agog about it. is it just the dazzling effects? or is it just because its somewhat related to computers? in terms or originality, uh, no, please.
Saying that "Matrix Revolutions" is better than "Reloaded" is about like saying it is better than Adam Sandler's car.
Which, by the way, I do not agree with. It does not quite reach the level of genuine quality craftsmanship you get from hearing Mr. Sandler sing about his automobile...
In that case, will there be "The Source", "The Source Reloaded", and "Source Source Revolution"?
Will I retire or break 10K?
I was going to say it, but you beat me to it. Far from hitting you over the head with obvious answers, Revolutions left a lot of the deeper questions unanswered, or at least made you think about what clues might have been left that would lead you to conclude one way or the other, which after you got over the initial disappointment, was really a far more satisfying ending.
All of you who are whining about spoilers, take heart: The matrix-within-a-matrix question, or the multiple matrices question or the who is human and who isn't questions are far from answered, at least in an obvious way. Those who are asserting one way or another obviously weren't paying attention when they watched the movie.
You're using her as bait, Master!
In an IRC channel I hang out in, we had a bit of fun on the subject: behold The Matrix: Convolution.
There are no real spoilers in there, in case you were wondering.
De gustibus et coloribus non est disputandum
Hope that spoiled it for a million matrix fanboys!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! MATRIX SUX
After seeing Reloaded, we debated the matrix-within-a-matrix conundrum. My view at the time was that it was a deliberate ambiguity, to make us want to come back and find out in part three, and it could have been resolved in one of two ways:
...)
... and the antigravity ... and ... um anyway it's tightly plotted so I saw no reason to now let pseudo-religion newage fantasy stuff be used as a way as a writer's general license to make it up as they went along. Then again, these are holywood screenwriters we are talking about, they're easily capable of such a cop-out.
/.story points out that in story terms, it's actually the simpler option.
1) Zion's world is also a simulation, a deliberate escape-valve designed into the matrix sim, that Neo was now learning to master (or unlearning the limitations
2) What I termed "hooddo mystical hippie crap". I'm cynical that way, sorry. The Matrix #1 can make scientific sense, just barely, if you ignore that human power plant idea a bit
I would say that in essence, #2 proved to be correct. The site that inspired this
My Karma: ran over your Dogma
StrawberryFrog
Well, I'm pretty sure that's Jamie. His surname is McCarthy, IIRC.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
I liked the movie overall, but I was confused as to how exactly Smith was stopped. I can think of three possibilities.
1) Neo had split some of the 'code' necessary for restarting the Matrix with Smith in the first movie. Being taken over by Smith rejoined the code and restarted the Matrix. I only think of this one because I'd heard someone else mention it somewhere.
2) Neo and Smith, being opposites, negated one another when they joined together.
3) Neo, being connected to the Source (and directly connected via Deus Ex Machina) was able to terminate Smith by bringing Smith to the Source.
None of these explanations fully satisfies me as to what really happened. I'd not mind hearing additional insight.
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
Bad movies are those that deal directly and seriously with the plot devices. These bad movies waste minutes of precious screen time with detailed descriptions of why things work. Good movies either ignore the plot devices, or, if they are particularly cheeky, like sheep in the big city, name their robotic plot device 'plot device'.
When everyone is complaining about plot holes and unsatisfying ending and attention spans I always think about 'Casablanca'. It was incoherent because of a string of writers. The ending was tacked on to satisfy people needs for a happier ending. People complained that the fictional papers, that were a critical plot device, did not exist. The story goes no where for the first 20 minutes. But who cares. It ends up being a very good movie.
The Matrix is likely to get better with age. It has enough things going on that the kids who watch it now will see a whole other movie in five or ten years. The ending is a good representations of what a hero is, and what a hero sometimes must do. The reaction at the end was a good characterization of human hope, which is sometimes an overreaction. The response of the machines is a good characterization of politics, where solutions are generally good enough rather than perfect.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
The Bad Guys lost!
The only "Bad Guys" that lost were the Smiths. The machines didn't 'lose', they pulled a Minbari: they had humanity cornered and doomed, then they surrendered and buggered off without an explanation (well, the audience knows the reason, but the Zionites don't).
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
so here you are:
r ix .Revolutions.TS.SVCD-TCR.torrent
http://suprnova.luxdla.com/torrents/529/The.Mat
Liked the movie, it wasnt up to the Matrix standard (as setup by the first part) but i was so disappointed by the Reloaded that i didnt have much expectations. They scabbed off stuff from other scifi movies (from aliens)and the got really slow and soppish at times (went to the loo twice, so made good use of those meoments). Thankfully, morpheus talked a bit less this time (no "moses speech" in Zion, yey!!!)
=====spoiler======
does Neo actually die ?! and how does Neo turning into Agent Smith, destroy all the Smiths?!
Must have missed something in the movie
OK. Here is a gaping plot hole. The whole reason the humans became batteries is because the machines could not use solar energy anymore. Yet in Revolutions, you see Neo and Trinity fly over the clouds and see the sun.
So... Are the machines so infinitely stupid that they could not mount thier solar arrays on large towers?
"No matter where you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai
I've seen a lot of complaints from people who just didn't like how things were resolved. They didn't have specific complaints about the storytelling, dialogue (which itself is fodder for snide commentary), action or anything but how the story played out. Specifically, they had their own ideas of how things should work out (such as the Matrix-in-a-Matrix) and when these things didn't come to fruition they became horribly disappointed and jaded.
I'm not saying that everyone who hated the movie is like that -- some of them have valid complaints -- but many of the detractors, especially on the Matrix fan boards, have been citing the fact that events didn't work out how they wanted.
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
Attaway to "The Lone Gunman Are Dead" that one....
Karma: Non-Heinous
When the trainman jumps across the train lines, check the destination on the train, it reads "LOOP". The lines on the train station are looped, and Neo returns to the same place after trying to get out.
Just my 2 cents.
DON'T SPOIL IT FOR US, FAG.
Revolutions instead gave us man and machine, living in some kind of weird state of... not-war. (Sadly, no word has been invented for this yet).
:-)
The word is detente. Ask the Merovingian what it means
that was about the most traditional ending possible, if you ask me. but i guess you didn't. i think i'll go back to sucking my dick.
The whole plot about the purpose of having humans in pods "generating" electricity for the machines was never explained.. The laws of thermodynamics do not allow for this, and that is why the movie seems to not be closed completely for me...
:)
I believe there was another purpose for the matrix.. that purpose being for the humans and machines to live on earth in peace. The arthitect was trying to balance an equation which couldn't be balanced, and the oracle trying to unbalance it.. It was a power struggle between the programs within the matrix, and a freedom struggle by the humans.
But the idea that the humans were generating electricity is proposterous. I have said it since the begining of the Matrix series.. and I'll say it again. The laws of physics do not allow humans to generate enough electricity to even grow plants to feed themselves, much less have excess power to power the machines. There MUST be some alternative source of power... At maximum, if the power extraction worked at 100% efficiency, and plant growing worked at 100% efficiency (that is, ALL electricity produced was converted to light which grew plants) then there would be exactly enough food to go around for the people that were already alive. There would be no way to reproduce, and no way to have excess electricity.
I have heard arguments that the machines figured out quantum physics, etc.. but if they did that, why not have nuclear power generators? Why not have solar pannels in space? why not move to Mars? These questions all prove that humans were not needed to generate electricity...
Others tell me that is just a plot hole that I have to deal with, but if it is, then somebody didn't even attempt to do their homework. There are THOUSANDS of ways more efficient and easier to generate electricity without the sun than to harvest humans in pods. Yet so many people still think that is why the humans were inserted into the matrix. bogus.
That being said, where are all the machines in the real world? There are sentinels and crop growers, but these were all there to maintain the matrix. What about all the other mahcines that roam the world? Did they still exist? Or did the machines insert every program into the matrix so humand and machines could occupy the world together without conflict?
I think the whole idea they are trying to get across is theological. There are 2 worlds, the physical world, and the machine world (matrix). Just like before christ, there were 2 worlds, the supernatural (god[s]) world(s), and the natural (human/physical) world.
I believe there will be some more matrix movies.. not necessarilly named "matrix" but something else. I think the era of the matrix is ended in Revolutions, which is why the title is named such...
These are just all IMO... Please comment and argue and disagree
Two infinite things: your stupidity and mine. But I'm not sure about the latter. If my sig offends you, I'm sorry.
<sarcasm>
Yeah, because what they went with was soooo much better.
</sarcasm>
My Greasemonkey scripts for Digg &
GunMEN. GunMEN. /me beats head into wall.
Karma: Non-Heinous
The 'second' Matrix is reality itself, it has nothing to do with a friggin computer. The machines were able to exit the Matrix and "live" because they are concicious just like humans, machine or flesh it doesnt matter, its all about existance, The source is GOD, or for you atheists out there, the rest of existance. Theres a second Matrix but its not made by machines, its existance itself. I can't believe people find that so hard to comprehend.
I hate to feed a troll, but I feel compelled to point out the idiocy of posting a "spoiler" to a story that will only be read by people who've seen the movie
One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
2) Neo and Smith, being opposites, negated one another when they joined together.
this is what the oracle said at least(something along the lines he is you blablabla).
i rather liked it also, and it ended somehow along the lines i had excepted(peace, as the machines/ai's in animatrix had originally wanted to join the un in peace anyways). destroying the whole matrix like *blink* or destroying every machine like *blink*.. that would have been very stupid(and against all possibilities), yet most of the audience had seemed to except something along those lines(maybe why they liked matrix1 so much.. no talking heads to confuse you and you could act all cool and say it's all buddha&etc shit, and that everyone was saved, when they just didn't have any time for telling the history or about the world and just went with all hk action).
though i must say that i have quite the spot for ai's running around gibson style.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
They don't say that. They say "The powers of the one extend beyond the Matrix." That makes sense. Assuming The Matrix is in the air (and as such hackable to the Freedom Fighters), Neo's expanded brain power (Ability to see beyond the Matrix) may very well enable him to connect with the Machines in general. Nobody really explained in Dune: Messiah why Paul could see when _he_ was blinded other than his "special" powers as Kwizatz Haderach, but nobody seemed to complain there....
Karma: Non-Heinous
1. When is the Matrix?
2. A continuity issue I spotted when watching the movie (I've seen it once): watch the back of Neo's neck. By the time we know he doesn't need to jack into the Maxtrix any more, we see zero, one, and two jacks on the back of his neck. These issues take place in a series of what seems to be the same scene but different camera angles. Before #2 came out I read some portions of #2 and #3 were filmed together - could this be why I saw the error(s)?
I saw Trinity die, but I do not remembr Neo dying. I do not think unconsious is the same as dying. Revolutions was definitely open ended about Neo's death... if nothing else...
All data is speech. All speech is Free.
13th Floor.
Trinity is -not- his sister? Gad damn it remind me to kick the crap out of that next kid who says that!
The Matrix is an operating system.
Smith is a fscked program which ultimately makes him a virus. Remember from the first movie, he notes to Morpheus that humans are nothing more than a virus. From this is where he finds his purpose that he lost.
Neo is actually the control on the opposite end of the spectrum of the equation to protect against Smith. Just think about it.. Contained inside of the code of 'The One' was the only cure for 'The Virus'. Combined, they nullify the anomaly in the equation, hence the Smiths going away.
The only Biblical references are really by the way he discovers himself as being the Savior of mankind. He also sacrifices his life for their salvation of all life, good (humans) and evil (the Matrix). His super perception is just that... enhanced perception, a la Daredevil.
But all in all, it's a well rounded series. It does invite the imagination despite all of the special effects.. a mark of a great film.
Cowboy Neil -1 TROLL
His "review" of the movie is fairly well summed up in this qoute:
I believe #6 was referring to this article (link goes to google cache of a geocities site). That theory alleges that all the "humans" are robots/AIs.
The article I linked doesn't nearly that far, and does explain a lot of the two movies without being "needlessly" complex. (It has to be a little complex; I don't think the movies lend themselves to a simple explanation.)
I never really much cared for the humans as power source either, but you said:
"I have heard arguments that the machines figured out quantum physics, etc.. but if they did that, why not have nuclear power generators? Why not have solar pannels in space? why not move to Mars? These questions all prove that humans were not needed to generate electricity..."
In the first film, Morpheus said that they used human as a power source, along with a form of fusion. Now as to why they would need humans at all, if that was the case, I don't know. Cheap memory storage?
can we start the (MPAA)boycott now?
I came into the movie with low expectations but this just blew my mind. What garbage.
The first half an hour was like watching paint dry. Terrible transitions, dialog and directing. NO TENSION. NO SUSPENSE. NO FLOW. Why didn't they shut up about love and its great power and connection to everything and just make a movie that didn't make me want to throw up or cringe every twenty minutes? ugh..
The action was good I'll admit. I would have enjoyed the movie much more if they would have cut out about 80% of the boring pointless dialogs or changed the script so it was a bit interesting. I dont want to hear stupid speechs from the captains about how its their ship and they won't let him commit "suicide" with it on his crazy mission. How boring and sterotypical. "Oh, oh please let Neo take the ship Mr Macho Ship Captain. He'll save the world!!! I wonder what will happen next!" OBVIOUS.
I really like how they tried to play off the new actress for the Oracle as changed. I mean the other actress died. We can understand that fact. Just keep going with the role. Why try to explain the change in appearance??? What a waste of time.
The best part was when Neo tried really hard to escape the train station with his mind and his "superpowers", and then a few seconds later, here comes the rescue party to save the day!! Ha ha. Very funny!
Save your money and time. Don't see this movie. The second matrix did enough damage already.
I know I'm going to get flamed and mod'ed into oblivion for this, but seriously, what's the big deal about the Matrix? Why do people lash out viciously at movies that actually make an attempt a real depth (LOTR), while simultaneously holding up the Matrix as the cinematic "Gold Standard?" I mean, sure, it's a moderately interesting story, but does it need 6+ hours to be told? Sure, some interesting fights happen along the way, and the effects are great, but are there subtle metaphors, philosophical references, and character dualities (besides Neo obviously) that I'm missing?
Why do people bitch and complain that the LOTR was too much gobbledygook (translation: they didn't understand, and hate movies that challenge them to think about it anywhere beyond the concession stand on their way out), then act like the Matrix is this untouchable masterpiece?
</sarcasm>
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
Not what you want, but they did mention the humans were combined with a form of fusion. Fusion (as we do it today) tends to be large bursts of energy in very short timeframes with a long dry period in between bursts.
I've always figured the human element was simply an electrical buffer. Consider the purpose of a capacitor in a simple AC to DC converter.
As to why they used humans and not something else? Who knows... Wouldn't have been nearly as good if it was hydrogen stored in tanks that was forming the Matrix.
Rod Taylor
The reloading of the matrix took place after the neo-smith battle. The ground fixed itself, and the little girl made a pretty sunrise.
SearchIRC - Now with live chat directory!
I've already seen it twice. I saw it the first time and was so dissapointed, upset, pissed, angry, whatever that I vowed never to give the WB another cent. Then of course, some friends went to see it again the next night so I tagged along deciding that I needed to give it another chance and to see if I missed anything.
After seeing it twice, yeah there was some stuff I missed. Yes I liked it better/hated it less the second time around. I see so many people commenting that "if you didn't like it you didn't get it" and I'm here to say that I didn't like it, but I sure as hell got it.
I just think it could have been so much better. The Matrix Trilogy could have been the sickiest Sci-Fi of all times. Serious. It had that much potential. The first Matrix was already in my top lists of movies. It totally got me by surprise (as it did to everyone) and made me leave the theater in pure wonder. I remember walking down the street and just wondering - "Can I run a little faster than I think I can? Or jump just a little higher?"
This launched me into a quest where I bought tons of philosophy books and read tons of stuff online and I was happy.
With the announcement of the trilogy (and sorry but if anyone believes that this was always a trilogy from the beggining you're smoking crack) I figured that we were going to go from Matrix 1/Philosophy 101 to Matrix 2 and 3 and Philosophy 405! Instead I was dissapointed.. because Matrix 2 and 3 were basically just stories. They kind of hinted at going deeper (think Plato and his cave analogy and the Matrix in Matrix which everyone was expecting) but really only skimmed the surface.
I'm not mad that the machine war ended, I kind of expected that. But I also expected the Matrix in a Matrix theory. And if it had ended like that, the ending would have been more open than it is now! Imagine a Neo telling everyone that they're still in the Matrix. Imagine them getting out of that Matrix. Then imagine them asking "How do we know we're not still in the Matrix" and then just ending it! That's about as open ended as you can get! So saying that I didn't like the movie because it wasn't wrapped up all nicely is weak.
Going from that, the whole scene with the Trainman...it could have led to a whole slew of new ideas but instead it didn't fit the movie at all and had it been removed no one would have noticed or missed it. That scene could and should have talked more about what it is exactly to be a machine and to be human. Maybe we are exactly the same things. Maybe we do work in exactly the same way. Maybe we find out that the machines had been integrating biological components in themselves for years and thus became more "human." Maybe we find out that humans had been integrating more mechanical components in themselves for years and become more "machine."
Maybe we find out that once you leave this Matrix and go a level up to the level of Zion and go a level up past that we find out that the Oracle, Architect, etc all of them were actually just players in the game. They didn't create the Matrix either but just existed in it just like us and just added another level to it and they don't know how far up it goes either. Maybe we find out that the more levels up you go, the wackier the story gets and it just never ends.
The WB gave me months for my mind to wander with ideas. They had years while they were building this. I just expected a whole lot more and got a whole lot less. Did I expect to much - yup. Should I have set my sights lower - yup. But in all honesty I think they just lost sight. Someone said it before, they got all this money this time around and completely lost the art of story telling in the process.
Go watch Bound if you don't know what I mean. That movie had the lowest budget out of anything they've ever done and I still think it was completely SICK and love it and would put it right below Matrix. It's just a story but the way it's told is awesome.
Now lets examine the huge p
Monica Bellucci is a fox.
... google search for "Monica Bellucci silicone" ... 1250 hits ... it's not real ... ho hum
Eh
My Karma: ran over your Dogma
StrawberryFrog
That Neo, after mastering the Matrix and meeting the Architect, can influence things in the supposed "real" world just as within the Matrix says that the supposed real world is itself virtual and that the true "real" world is at least one level deeper. The new movie deepens the evidence in that Neo sees the code of the supposed real-world machine city. This could not occur if it really was the "real world".
My theory is that a Singularity did pit humans against machines but the machines won long ago. But they were not pleased with the way things went and/or believed they had lost too much. So they are running endless simulations attempting to regain what they lost or find a way for it to come out differently. Why they are doing this is fuzzy. But it is pretty obvious that they are. An alternative is that uploaded humans and machines are running these sims, continually reloading the Matrix, in an attempt to forge something new, some real peace or outcome that is more beneficial to all sentients.
Think of Smith as a viral network. It absorbs a person or program and adds it to the network, becoming more powerful in the process. The machines need to hack that network and destroy it but they can't because it is no longer connected to them.
Neo and the machine mind agreed to work together to destroy smith. When Neo entered the matrix to confront smith he did it by connecting through the machine mind.
At the end of the fight Neo lets himself be absorbed by Smith and becomes part of the Smith network. Smith thinks it has won but doesn't realize that Neo is connected to the Machine Mind. Just before Smith dies you see the cables into Neo light up. The Machine Mind is now connected to the Smith Network via Neo and can destroy it from the inside.
The Oracle was the key to Neo realizing that he had to lose the fight to defeat Smith. She knew the Smiths were coming to "assimilate" her but stayed there and let it happen. The Smith that Neo fought was the one who had been the Oracle, this is provable because (a) it said the others were letting it fight him because it had forseen itself winning and (b) when the smiths died it was her body lying there. At the end of the fight the oracle/smith said that had forseen Neo was lying there while it said "Everything has to come to an end", but it seemed confused by this. This was a message for Neo from the Oracle. He understood that he had lose the fight and let Smith absorb him into the network thus giving the machine mind the backdoor it needed. This also fits the messiah theme, he let himself die in order to save humanity
Just my theory here. Think of Smith as a viral network. It absorbs a person or program and adds it to the network, becoming more powerful in the process. The machines need to hack that network and destroy it but they can't because it is no longer connected to them. Neo and the machine mind agreed to work together to destroy smith. When Neo entered the matrix to confront smith he did it by connecting through the machine mind. At the end of the fight Neo lets himself be absorbed by Smith and becomes part of the Smith network. Smith thinks it has won but doesn't realize that Neo is connected to the Machine Mind. Just before Smith dies you see the cables into Neo light up. The Machine Mind is now connected to the Smith Network via Neo and can destroy it from the inside. The Oracle was the key to Neo realizing that he had to lose the fight to defeat Smith. She knew the Smiths were coming to "assimilate" her but stayed there and let it happen. The Smith that Neo fought was the one who had been the Oracle, this is provable because (a) it said the others were letting it fight him because it had forseen itself winning and (b) when the smiths died it was her body lying there. At the end of the fight the oracle/smith said that had forseen Neo was lying there while it said "Everything has to come to an end", but it seemed confused by this. This was a message for Neo from the Oracle. He understood that he had lose the fight and let Smith absorb him into the network thus giving the machine mind the backdoor it needed. This also fits the messiah theme, he let himself die in order to save humanity
I think in the Matrix case, it fell into the "rapid decline" trap such as the "Karate Kid Movies", each one gets progressively worse! I credit some of the scenes in the sequels, but i think the storyline in the first matrix was hard to beat.
why do we have to take it at face value that the machines need the energy from humans at all? if they were going about more and more drastic measures to shut down the machines, then it might help the machines' agenda to have almost all the humans plugged into the ultimate video game. But then, of course, you run into the problem of "why don't they just kill the humans off entirely"
Let's say you don't believe that the humans are necessary at all. clearly the machines have no problem with killing off humans one by one or by the thousands. what do they have against killing off the entire human race?
perhaps the answer to the question of "why don't they kill off the humans" and "why don't we see any other machines" is the same.
perhaps the machines realise that without humans they are purposeless. with humans around they have a purpose: to harvest, nurture, trick, kill, and recycle the humans. without humans, what purpose do the machines have? are they going to peacefully continue to colonize earth once the humans are gone? what's the point? they could go out into the galaxy in quest of other races to conquer, but sooner or later they will run out of other races.
The machines need humans, but they need tamer ones than the ones willing to sacrifice themselves to kill machines. so all those crazies are packed off to zion, where they only encounter a tiny subset of the machine population, whose sole purpose is target practice for zionites. meanwhile the machines create more and newer machines to cater to the needs of the tame humans. Even the new ending, with all the humans who want out being let out, will give the machines opportunities to design and create and exist as machines that serve these newly-freed humans.
my $0.02
but yea, flimsy plot hole.
He's dead, Jim. You get his tricorder, I'll get his wallet.
I could have just used my imagination?
Did you miss the concept of "movie" somewhere?
I'm paying to see something that someone else imagined. If I have to fill in the holes with my imagination then they did not do a very good job.
Which is the major complaint I've see about M2 and M3. They did not do a very good job. Which is exactly what that quote on the intro of the article said.
"...whatever third (Matrix) movie you envisioned in your head, no matter how lame, has got to be better than this."
-critic at Rotten Tomatoes.com on The Matrix: Revolutions
And you're saying that this is how it should be done?
I guess the simplest way is of looking at things was a transformation of emphasis from the matrix in the first, a bit of real world in the second, to mostly real world in the final...which is why most of the matrix questions remained unanswered.
I actually liked the fact they hit so hard on the question of Choice. Especially the way that The Oracle enumerated it. Making a choice changed the nature and appearance of the program.
It, of course, was much better with the Merovingian.
In space, no one can hear you moo.
Where are all the ships in Revolutions?
In the pain that is/was reloaded, Lock was really pissed that a couple ships were going out to broadcast depth.
From these scenes it seemed that there was a rather large fleet of ships, all those folks sitting in the background were crews right?
Anyway now I know why lock was pissed, the Logos and the other ship were apparently all they had as none of the others show up in Revolutions. Where are they and what happened to all the EMPS? Did I miss something?
Movie #1
What if what you think is reality is not real?
How would you be able to tell?
Movie #2
What if the person you think you are is not who you are?
Why do you choose what you choose?
Is there a choice?
Can I choose to have really long fight and rave scenes instead of looking at those questions?
How many useless characters can I fit in one movie?
Movie #3
How about if everyone talks about love and we blow shit up?
What if I focus on visual effects rather than story? Will anyone who matters notice?
If I'm out of ideas, can I rip off other movies?
Can I end a series while still making sure that I have an opening in case I need to make another movie to bring in more cash?
In spite of what pwot thinks, the "Zionverse is inside a system" idea is still the best explanation of what happened in 2 and 3.
Com'n, we're expected to believe that Neo's "connection to the source" allows him to see humans that *think* they're Agent Smith, but not other humans? When he has no eyes!?
His "connection to the source" allows him to communicate wirelessly with the Matrix systems, even when in Zion sleeping, to give him premonitions in his dreams?
Give me a break.
There is no other explanation that doesn't invoke magic.
Property law should use #'EQ, not #'EQUAL.
It's because he's part of the source. It's understandable why you'd miss the two lines of dialog where he asks the question you asked and the oracle gives the answer I just gave you considering how every explaination was just a side note between action and reaction shots.
And since he's part of the source, the "real" world (where the escaped humans hang out) isn't really the real world since he can only control what the source controls. Point for "matrix in a matrix" theorists.
I think what's mildly ironic is that the reason people hated Vanilla Sky is because the last 15 minutes they pretended the audience was full of morons and explained everything.
Matrix: Revolutions didn't do that. They gave short stark answers which answered the questions but in a way that left it open for interpretation.
What did Agent Smith do the the Oracle? You get all of 3 seconds of seeing her lying on the ground where the Agent Smith that took on Neo used to be standing. Sure they could have gone into extensive dialog about why he needed her to defeat Neo OR they could leave it open.
They did that with everything. The answers are all there. They just don't spell it out for you. If they had they'd just be wasting time repeating Matrix 1 and 2.
Personally, my theory is that they knew all the neat questions and how to "show" them as is good story telling but couldn't "show" the answers even if they really knew them. That's the standard problem with philosophy. Most of the great writters have a brilliant ability to ask deep questions in interesting ways but they never give you an answer. They just send you back down the mountain to seek it out yourself.
I'll definitly be picking up the DVD when it comes out. I think people went in with a mindset that is was all action and "sucked" and so, like you, weren't paying attention when answers where offered.
Reloaded was the same way. I went in for the action and picked up much more detail when I got the DVD and watched it more closely.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
Did it ever occur to you that some people might not want to know that the matrix-within-a-matrix theories were unfounded by reading the main page? At least you could have put your comments in the story details and given a spoiler warning. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for for diminishing my Matrix Revolutions experience.
You moron. You are no journalist. The
ONE THING you do not do in a film review is give away the ending. And saying there is no "matrix within a matrix" is maybe borderline, but damned irresponsible.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
They ask questions, that is okay.
But when they have Neo actually affecting reality, those questions HAVE to be answered.
In the first movie, Neo did not affect reality, only the illusion. So the questions were okay as they were left.
Once Neo kills machines in the real world by thinking at them, HOW he does that needs to be answered.
I'm glad you're pleased with movie #3. Many three year olds are pleased watching hour after hour of Barney.
Draw your own conclusions from that.
I always liked the Matrix-in-a-Matrix theory because it seemed to make the most sense. In fact someone came up with some math to show how it was the ONLY way to make sense of population growth. And I just didn't buy the idea that Neo was suddenly powerful outside of the Matrix.
Here's my little "what I might have done" twist on things:
a) The Merovingian would turn out to be in fact a previous version of the one, from "a much older version of the Matrix". Neo is the Matrix 3.0's one, this guy was from an older one. In fact he has better insight into this Matrix than Neo does, as an outsider. He's just decided there's no point to all this.
b) The reason he has is that no one is in fact unplugged - Zion is a spilloff Matrix for the people who must fight the system. In this matrix, the unease they still feel is masked by their fight to save the world, and they are thus rendered harmless. They also remove other disruptive elements from the Matrix, in essence being very unwitting house cleaners. This explains a point never addressed at all - when the one supposedly "work up" and freed the first people, how did they rebuild themselves from the physical state Neo started in? He needed extensive medical help to function again - the first people would have had none. Simple answer - no one has ever really woken up and formed Zion. If someone did wake up, they died. That machine that unplugged them, also took their head off for good measure.
c) Neo, like the previous ones, is in fact a program himself. He has no awareness of this, and his sentient mind fully believes he is human. The Merovingian knows he is a program, and that is a further reason the fight is of little interst to him. Neo, the new one, has no such insight and in any case is built so he will fight for humanity. This is part of his function as the one program. He is "seeded" into the Matrix to bring about a necessary reprogramming, as the system has built to a point of instability where matters must be restarted now in order to maintain full control. (Think Windows box - saving work and rebooting, because you can tell it's about to go unstable on you.)
d) However, the One has a couple unintentional side effects - a) it overwrites a part of an agent program, creating a virus and b) develops a deep relationship with Trinity. Now the @#$@# has really hit the fan, and data corruption begins to take place.
e) The Merovingian, interested in his own existance and well versed in the Matrix, is now under threat from the virus program. He is compelled to prepare for war. He check codes and prepares to isolate certain sections of the Matrix he controls, but then he stops. An amused, ironic smile comes over his face, and he turns toward a door, fishing out a key.
f) Smith the virus corrupts the system - the Matrix more easily, but subtle effects begin to seep into the more heavliy shielded "real world" environment. Initially Zion appears to be helped by this, since the real world programs like the sentinals are not prepared for this kind of attack and are the first things to fail. No one understands it but the conclusion is Neo somehow did it. Big party starts, but then odd things happen - lights begin to behave sporadically, computer systems begin to show flashes of Smith's face, and the weaker people mentally begin to show faint signs of Smith's personality. Neo, as a program, also comes under attack sooner than the human minds but is better able to protect himself. He contacts the machines directly using his still not understood powers and proposes the deal. It is accepted and he enters the Matrix, to deal with the virus at its source.
g) Big fight. Neo holds his own against one of the Smiths (movie fight was OK here, except after crater impact Neo shows brief program characteristics as he rewrites routines to repair and strengthen himself, and gets up stronger). Both programs are rewriting themselves as they fight, and as the Matrix becomes more and more tasked action outside Smith and Neo slows down.
h. (In reality humans aren't power sources BTY - their brains are the hardware of the Matrix. The brainpower not being used in their Matrix existance is used to power the system - the brain being the one thing beyond the machines to duplicate. As their
"I object to doing things that computers can do." -- Olin Shivers, lispers.org
The problem I had with Matrix 3 is that it delivered exactly what I was expecting. I'd hoped that there was a larger theory about the Matrix-within-a-Matrix or a logical explaination about Neo's "robot mind control". But I was expecting there to not be. I also expected things to blow up - something that I was tired of by the end of the 2nd movie. They didn't have the guts to take their franchise in a new direction. They delivered exactly what I was expecting - and it was boring.
The movie started okay, but I didn't care for the entire middle part of the movie - I so wanted to see the machine city.
There was a bunch of pointless crap that exploded and people got killed that was completely predictable. Yes, we've known the damn machines are coming for about 6 months. Shut up about it and get on with it - I actually wanted the machines to kill everyone so they'd stop saying "we have x hours before the machines come".
They start to introduce a couple of new characters (including the cute buff chick on the rocket team) - they, predictably, get killed almost immediately. So why do I give a damn about this movie anymore?
I want to see the machines, for Neo to talk to them - to find out their story is - ignoring the scraps fed to us in Animatrix - the movies should stand alone.
What happens? We see a "boss" machine for about 30 seconds and it's really stupid. The best they could come up with is a giant floating head that has problems speaking. This is a hyperintelligent machine that can only speak in a really deep voice, one monosylabled word at a time.
And when Neo and Smith are flying around like superman - it just goes so over the top that it's retarded. Neo goes from (in movie #1) being able to take Smith down easily, to not being able to scratch him (in movie #2) to being beaten by him (movie #3). Why the inconsistency with no explainations?
The only part that I thought was good is that Neo has to loose the fight to Smith - to cause Smith to then be deleted and the matrix to correct itself. Suck it, "one".
The oracle flat out said that Neo was part of the source. That is why he could control the machines and the "Real World" of the machines was seen by Neo as source code.
If it's source code, it's not real. The Matrix left it open as to whether it's possible to escape the source (he had previously chosen to destroy the source where this time everyone just lives in peace with it) but it leaves a very deterministic feel. No matter which door he choses he can't get rid of the machines.
But that's the big question: can't a program that was given a purpose (no free will) infect a human who has choice and completely go against it's design?
So far the answer is "no." Neo did exactly what he was designed to do. Even if he did take a slighly askew path to get to his inevitable conclusion. Since he was part of the source, taking out the source would have resulted in his death as well. And we all know the cycle continues when he choses that door. In his current interation the path "allowed" for the cycle to start again.
The architect gave Neo a classical false dillema. He gave two doors, two choices, but if they are ever to truly win there must be at least one more door that the architect fails to mention. Most obviously, killing the architect.
Since the architect isn't human, it's inevitable as it's his purpose and he's still in control.
Does it completely cut off the notion of free will? No. But only because it never claims it can "never" happen that the humans will truly succeed.
They've just failed seven times.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
Her death scene went on too long. "Just DIE already" was heard in the theatre. People didn't want Neo and Trinity to live happily ever after. They wanted decent answers to the questions.
What is wrong with expecting a movie to have an conclusion? The first movie didn't have that same problem. No one was asking whether the Matrix was real or illusion.
As I've noted before, lots of people think this was a good movie. And lots of three year olds think Barney is a good show.
The answer is that writers-directors did not know enough philosophy to answer those questions. So they didn't.
Instead, they fell back on CGI effects and hoped that those lesser educated individuals would be sufficiently satisified with those to pay the ticket prices.
There are no deeper questions unanswered. It is a badly done movie where the writers-directors focused more on visual effects than on content.
As was noted in the into to that article, any movie you thought you'd be seeing would have been better than the one they produced.
(1) The Characters
Or perhaps I should say the incredible lack of characters. The original Matrix actually had them. You had an idea as to who they were and how they would act. This movie just had plot points. They introduced so many characters and spent so much of their time on the big fight scenes in the last two movies, that there was no sense of who anyone was. When I don't care about the characters, why should I care if they live or die. Without the emotional resonance, actions scenes are just watching things go BOOM!
(2) The Cliches
As soon as you saw the guy argue to be on the team, you immediately knew that he was either going to be the big hero or a traitor. How many times does one have to see the plot where the character who can absorb others finally tries that on a powerful being and explodes (I remember this plot device being how Superman used to defeat the Parasite back in the 70s). Not everything can be novel, but I expect some originality from a movie that's supposed to be thought provoking.
(3) One Level Only
Let's take a scene near the end. Even ignoring the cliches of the bad guy ranting about how love is pointless, and the defeated good guy finding a mantra to revive his desire to fight, what was Neo's reason for going on? Was it love? Was it revenge? Was it a hope for a better world? No. He fights because, "I choose to."
Sure on a metaphorical level, you devise all sorts of theories about what they're saying about free will there, but what makes lines like that resonate is when they work also on the straightforward level. There it just fails. Our hero fights because he fights. I guess there was nothing better on tv in the Matrix that night.
The Matrix Revolutions works as a piece that throws out random crumbs of philosophy that people can use to make up cool theories. Too bad it also doesn't work as a movie.
4. military dialogue so cliched they rejected it for real war movies.
5. if you don't like the idea of Trinity dying, don't sweat it too hard. Yes she dies, but it takes her for fucking ever to do it.
Note to self: No more arguing with the faithful.
...past their own preconceptions and look at the movie for what it is.
It's an incredible, deeply symbolic and philosophical action movie with a great story.
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
is AC opening the gag order courtesy of Joel and Larry for "stealing" the script to the Matrix 4: Duality
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
No one's been within 100KM of the machine city. That's what they said in the movie.
Unless they build the Matrix and all those people towers far away from the city. But why have the baby fields just outside the city then?
Besides, Zion is deep enough in the rock to shield any machines from EMP.
A better answer would be "the same reason the machines use humans instead of nuclear power".
The machines don't have nuclear technology and lack the imagination to discover it on their own. The machines can only run programs within defined boundaries.
That would have made a better movie. Humans not bound by "fate" and machines whose actions follow pre-defined structures.
And the machines could not use the humans in the Matrix to work on nuclear technology because the humans can only work with things the machines can create in the Matrix.
The Wachowski brothers are fans of all kinds of mythology and the epic story. Study this stuff, and you'll find heaps of it incorporated into the Matrix.
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
Its a fucking movie, good special effects, tight dialogue, did not answer everything but what the hell does.
Jesus christ, I even read one idiot going on about how there was to much kissing, they fucking kissed 3 times in the movie, and fucking adults tend to you fuckwit.
Every fucker in creation going on about how they could have done it better, if so stop whining and go do it or shut the fuck up!!!
Good movie decent and only logical ending, if someone starts harping on about plotholes, tell him to fuck and get a girlfriend you sad fucking tosspot.
1) those jacks are the absolute worst possible excuse for an antennta
2) This isn't interesting, or even funny. Mod down.
Do yourself a favor and continue not seeing the two movies unless you're going with friends during a matinee (and sneaking in food) for the purpose of ridiculing it.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Recall one of the first things the Architect said to Neo. Something about him being changed in the process.
Changed, perhaps, in a way that began his connection to the source.
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
You should NOT see them in the theatre.
You should have enough alcohol nearby to erase your short term memory after watching them. Should you feel the need to.
From the latter article I reference above:
"The Wachowski Brothers' vision for The Matrix is one that extends far beyond the theatrical trilogy, and the world they have created is so rich that we've chosen to tell inter-connected Matrix-related stories in multiple mediums," said Joel Silver, producer of the Matrix films. "Our goal in collaborating with Ubi Soft is to create a multiplayer online game that reflects the trilogy's highly stylized storytelling and innovative action, taking fans beyond the boundaries of the movie screen and into a 'persistent world' where they can fully explore the vast realm of the Matrix."
Revolutions wasn't supposed to give you the answers to everything. In fact, at the same time that Reloaded came out, a video game called Enter The Matrix came out, which contains some information pretaining to the Oracle and the family (father, mother, child) you see at the beginning of Revolutions in the train station. You learn who the family is, and, more importantly, what deal the father made with the Mero (french dude) in Reloaded (yes, he's in Reloaded, being led away from the table when Nero, Morpheus, and Trinity approach the Mero in the Resturant in Reloaded). In Revolutions, you only learn of the father's side of the deal. You never learn what the Mero got in return.
I've seen the movie and was dissapointed that it didn't answer my questions and I would probably have to play Enter The Matrix and The Matrix Online in order to grasp some of the answers I was expecting. I'm not a game-playing person and don't necessarily want to play the games.
If you realize that Revolutions isn't going to answer your questions and just sit back and enjoy it, it is actually a good movie. The more I think about the movie (I saw it Wednesday morning), the more I realize that it wasn't nearly as disappointing as I first thought.
I just wish it answered more questions, and, therefore, didn't force me to play the video and on-line games to fully grasp everything.
The writers are idiots (or maybe their really smart). They just dreamt up something that looked kinda cool for conveying the fact that Neo + Smith = both die. Only dramatically and with religious overtones.
That's it. They expect loser audience members to do the hard work of figuring out HOW within the confines of their pathetic excuses for dialog. Then they go to the bank and take out huge credit lines to buy Hummers.
Suckers.
You could tell that after the success first movie, no one who actually liked the idea of the story and Matrix universe got in on it. The stink of fresh cash attracted hacks like flies to meat. It was strictly a business venture.
On a completely different subject, whenever I heard "The Source" mentioned, I kept thinking about Open Source software, and every time I heard the Oracle's name mentioned, I thought of the database provider.
Is something wrong with me? ^_^
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Almost really. These NEO-communists (NEO, get it?) might like a return to the "good old days". (Actually they probably did it so people would take their picture, it would get carried by newswires, and someone would eventually post it to Slashdot. I hope they're happy now.)
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
I can't wait to get the DVD and look for more of the thousands of hidden things in there.
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
Why not listen to Merv for a second: "It's just a game".The Merovingian is a program, no? Well guess what: The machines are programs, nothing more, it's a game to them, nothing more.
There, I spoiled it for you. Hope you're happy, you insensitive clod.
are there subtle metaphors, philosophical references, and character dualities (besides Neo obviously) that I'm missing?
Do some reading. Read about the Wachowski brothers. Read about the philosophy in the movies. They are deeper than you thought possible.
Who doesn't like the Lord of the Rings?
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
"What's right about expecting a movie to have a conclusion?"
Because I paid to see a movie. That's why it owes me one. Otherwise, I'd save my money and just think up my own movies. Which is, if you'd read the article, the main point in the intro.
This movie was worse than any movie thought up by any of the people who had seen the others.
"Why should we be fed the same BS over and over again providing things in neat little finished bundles that provide little or no room for imagination and thought on the viewers side?"
Why do you confuse a decent story with the death of imagination? It is possible to have a good story and still keep your imagination.
"You already have an seemingly infinite supply of movies providing you with whatever messages you want, why do you NEED every movie to be like that?"
Incorrect on both counts. There are a limited number of movies out there. I'm not talking about messages. I'm talking about story. Their story has plot holes.
They are bad story tellers. They do not tell their story very well.
The first movie seems to have been a fluke.
"As for the first film, my view was that it didn't draw many conclusions."
#1. Reality is not what you think it is. You are trapped in a dream.
#2. You can wake up from that dream and find the true reality.
#3. The true reality is very different from the dream.
#4. Because the dream reality is a dream, you can do things there that you cannot do while awake.
Not many conclusions, but enough for a good movie.
"I really, really, don't understand why you'd consider a film leaving room for thought to be a bad thing."
You've phrased that incorrectly. What you actually meant was "I really, really, don't understand why you'd consider a film with an excessive number of plot holes to be a bad film".
If you liked the film then those plot holes are just opportunities for you to write the story that the real writers didn't.
So why pay to see the movie when you'll be writing it inside your head anyway?
I don't see it that way. I paid to see their movie. Their movie was badly written. The only way their movie would make sense is if I did the extra work and fixed it in my head.
Why stop there? With that viewpoint, everything, no matter how badly done, is just another opportunity for you to fill in the holes with your imagination.
Attack of the Clones. A great movie. There is just so much room for your imagination to work.
In fact, the less of a movie there is, the more you can make it a great movie by filling it in with your imagination.
Until you get to the point of just not going to the movies and just letting your imagination work.
If I'm going to do that, I'm going to keep the money I'd have paid for the ticket.
I haven't seen the movie.
Of course, I'm also an idiot and thought "hey, maybe there won't be any spoilers"
My bad, really.
The girl next to me at work sent this. I think her friend, whos name I don't know, compiled it.
"So disappointing they may as well have bussed in Ewoks to save Zion."
-- Christopher Null, FILMCRITIC.COM
"Too bad the Wachowski brothers marry their mind-blowing visuals to some of the worst war movie clichs ever written."
-- Sean O'Connell, ECLIPSE MAGAZINE
"Though visually spectacular, 'The Matrix Revolutions' is a disappointing climax to what had previously been one of the great movie series of recent years." - Peter Sobczynski, CRITIC DOCTOR
"The Wachowskis... lean so heavily on concepts and designs from Aliens... that you half-expect to hear Bill Paxton wailing 'Game over, maaaaan!' in the background."
-- James Sanford, KALAMAZOO GAZETTE
"It's actually at its best when it's the most pretentious. Its loud and repetitive action sequences are impressive enough, but we've seen them all before."
-- Steve Rhodes, STEVE RHODES' INTERNET REVIEWS
"For all the ponderous philosophizing found in Reloaded, Matrix Revolutions is surprisingly straightforward and more than a little cheesy."
-- Bill Pearis, CITYSEARCH
"Theres a warmed-over feeling that permeates what should have been the defining film of the trilogy."
-- Rebecca Murray, ABOUT.COM
"Please someone, get me the blue pill. I want to forget that this ambitious and noteworthy series is ending so weakly."
-- Nell Minow, MOVIE MOM AT YAHOO! MOVIES
"A mixture of frantic but empty action and solemn, even more vacuous philosophizing that ends up simultaneously pretentious and puerile."
-- Frank Swietek, ONE GUY'S OPINION
"While superior to Reloaded, The Matrix Revolutions still can't quite justify turning a stand-alone classic into a misguided trilogy."
-- Alex Sandell, JUICY CEREBELLUM
"The final chapter in the Wachowski brothers' trilogy about stylish sunglasses, leather trenchcoats, freshly baked cookies and Wire Fu."
-- Jon Popick, PLANET SICK-BOY
"After all is said and done, I wish they would have left the trilogy to one."
-- Danny Minton, KBTV-NBC (BEAUMONT, TX)
"Seems like Matrix Reloaded with a little tweaking."
-- Harvey S. Karten, COMPUSERVE
"With The Matrix Revolutions, the Wachowski brothers have managed to pull off something nearly impossible. They've made a movie about the end of the world that leaves us entirely indifferent to the outcome."
-- Chris Vognar, DALLAS MORNING NEWS
"The Matrix Revolutions sucks."
-- Peter Travers, ROLLING STONE
"Reloaded was certainly a lumpy, gaseous treatise of a movie, but viewers of Revolutions may find themselves looking back on it fondly."
-- A.O. Scott, NEW YORK TIMES
"There's relatively less of the clunky alternation of big action and static speechifying that stalled Reloaded. But there's also less storytelling fervor from the Wachowskis."
-- Lisa Schwarzbaum, ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY
"Better than Reloaded, but the thrill is gone."
-- Michael Rechtshaffen, HOLLYWOOD REPORTER
"How did something that started out so cool get so dorky?"
-- Manohla Dargis, LOS ANGELES TIMES
"Louder, longer, more expensive and dumber than its predecessors, Revolutions is a mediocrity that will provide escapism only to those who head for the theater exits."
-- Colin Covert, MINNEAPOLIS STAR TRIBUNE
the emotional impact of this movie is zilch."
-- Paul Clinton, CNN
"The Matrix trilogy is so named for a reason: The most compelling aspect of the movies is that way-cool space. Revolutions spends too little time there."
-- Leigh Johnson, HOLLYWOOD.COM
"The Wachowskis have served up passable entertainment... but they fail to deliver on their own mythology."
-- Laura Clifford, REELING REVIEWS
"Visually stunning but a huge disappointment. The resolution sucked! "
-- Victoria Alexander, FILMSINREVIEW.COM
riding round the world on an old motorcycle
The machines are using humans as batteries "combined with a form of fusion". That's like me powering my house by this hamster in a wheel "combined with nuclear power plants through the national grid".
- When trinity/morpheus/seraph enter club hell after the initial fight, one of the extras on the left right next to seraph (as the camera is moving backwards towards the merovingian) is wearing a "Source" mask... with the peaks/horns.
-When neo is talking to the oracle, she puts on a bracelet, the camera switches to neo, then back to the oracle and she starts putting on the bracelet again.
-Monica Bellucci. Indeed.
I remember reading that one of the brothers said that originally the humans were used as giant computer (insert oblligatory beowulf cluster joke here) but Warner said that people wouldn't understand the concept of distributed computing. So they made it something easier to understand for John Doe.
Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?
Although I wonder what "a form of fusion" is. Too many plot holes.
When quizzed about the over-all crappiness of Revolutions all the Wachowski's had to say was "But we haven't finnished the training program!" ... so the audience laughed in their faces.
Does this make my brain look big?
I don't think so - most of the people leaving the movie pissed-off are pissed because the Wachowski's didn't go the same way everyone thought they would. That, in itself, is clever.
Look. Matrix 3 is the conclusion. It adds some to the world, finishes the story, and gives you Epic SciFi Battles. Lucas couldn't/hasn't done any better. Revolutions is a kick ass SciFi Action Flick. And there's nothing wrong with that.
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
i guess you didnt listen to the guy talk. His gives their job description - programmers.
-
I would personally much rather pay to see a movie that inspired me to think about things than pay money to see a crap visual fest thats devoid of any meaning, as most films tend to be.
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There are 2 main points (and i'll try not to spoil): Freedom is CHOICE. The ending makes perfect sense and fits completely in line with this. It is different than the usual sci-fi fare though which is why I think alot of people were dismayed by it. But if they actually paid attention and thought for more than 5 seconds about it...
2. The machines aren't inherently evil.
and then theres the yin-yang that pervades the entire storyline.
Oh, and regarding the 'bad dialog'. The bad dialog and one-dimensional characters is mostly limited to the humans. If anything, the matrix is like Julius Ceasar. Its a tragedy about a secondary character (brutus in Caesar, smith in the matrix). The 3 most influential programs, smith, oracle and architect all have the best lines, character development and insight.
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I thought they were used to generate heat?
The name of the ship, Logos, is Greek for "word", but means more than its literal translation. It has a connotation of a deeper sense of reality, like "reckoning" or "meaning".
The early biblical Greek gospel of John begins with "en arche ein ho logos kai ho logos ein pros ton theon kai theon ein ho logos" which translates as "in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God".
Logos makes lotsa appearances in Roman Catholicism and Orthodox theology (and probably many other Christian denominations). I remember laughing when I heard Egypt had banned Reloaded because of its alleged religious bias by using names like Trinity and Zion. It was hearing the ship's name in the theatre that made me really notice the bibilical theme.
There is nothing to disprove that theory (a matrix in the matrix) - and if we are to stay in Science Fiction (instead of Fantasy) that is only logial explanation i've seen.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
I was hoping that Neo would wake up in bed between Bob Newhart and the woman who played his wife on his first series.
[Warning, spoilers]
Well I am happy that it didn't have the usual Hollywood mindless happy ending.
However, if it is not going to answer the big questions set up by the incoherent second movie, it has to offer something else in exchange.
This movie had no content - The fight scenes were tired, the battle scenes were a cheep arcade computer game I have played too many times before, and the death of Neo and Trinity's 2D characters failed to create any sympathy or emotion in me at all.
What redeems this movie?
http://webpages.charter.net/btakle/matrix_reloaded .html
The above page explains everything about the films perfectly. Pay special attention to the last "Story arc" section where the author makes some predictions about Revolutions.
You take the Red pill ...
and 2 more Matrix movies suck $20 out of your pocket and waste your time.
You take the Blue Pill...
and go watch the LOTR trilogy and be happy!
(you'll loose even more time though...)
aka the Robert Jordan books?
There's a film? Or TV series? What exactly?
I enjoyed all three movies. Far and away my favorite was the first. Reloaded and Revolutions were pretty good. If anything Revolutions tied up the story too tightly - and we are all so used to being left guessing.
Two comments: First, this movie felt like a two hour conclusion, with no introduction, no rising action. It was as if it was literally the resolution of the second movie.
Second, A lot of the griping I've read is of the "it would have been better if" variety. Movies are frusterating in this respect - after the first movie in a series, everyone has preconceptions of the way the story will flow.
-- $G
Heh, "pulled a Minbari"... If only JMS had written the last two Matrices... if only.
sic transit gloria mundi
I didn't like the movie at all, mostly because of 3 reasons. There where others too though. 1. The machines keep their promises. Why? I'd just say, "Nice, Neo's dead... kill the humans now" What do they have to gain from the peace now that Neo is gone and he did his part? 2. The swarms of things flying all over. Why did they fly in packs so they can be hit all the time? If they dispersed how it's logical they would have been more effective in killing those APUs. None of them managed to notice the missles very easily. If they are such advanced machines could they not figure out "Oh.. missles, let's go after what shot them" And with all those thousands of machines noone saw those people with the rocket launchers? None of them shot at the resuply people? Well.. not quite true... one or two did, but still. Anyone knows that you want to go for the resuply lines first. I have more complaints about the machines.. but i'll stop there :)
3. Why did they not keep EMPs? I mean... Zion put them all on ships. why not put say... 30 of them inside the dome.. and just keep detonating emps once in a while to kill the drones. Whatever is left.. they could have kept all their ships back and destroyed, or those APU things could have handeled them. Why did they waste all their ships?
Just 3 major observations.. there are more. like that entire huge gate, it was held by 1 chain.... that's not really plausible.
I really wanted to see them introduce two new characters - The Postgres and The MySQL, who team up to defeat The Oracle. Now that a lot of geeks would've been able to relate to.
sic transit gloria mundi
Except for the few that were outside.
That's like being part of a dream world, a real world and a spiritual world. And nobody on the planet has any notion of three planes of existance.
Considering Neo saw the machine world as Source, it quite obviously wasn't "real." So yes, the "matrix in a matrix" was the correct view. After all, they asked it a number of times, how can a "program" exist in the "real" world. It can't.
The problem is that people like CowboyNeal were expecting more plugs to be pulled. That's not what "matrix in a matrix" is.
The third plane of existance isn't explored in the Matrix but by Neo's eyes it's quite obvious it's there. The reason it isn't explored is because The Matrix was exploring inevitability. The architect gave Neo two doors which is the definition of a false dilemma. Both doors led to the same conclusion.
Taking out the source, Neo would have died as he's a part of it and the Matrix would be rebuilt anyway. The second door, he ends up dead and the Matrix still exists. All roads lead to the same destination.
"While it is indeed possible, there is no reason to believe that it is true, since it has no real bearing on the story."
It has quite a bit to do with the story. It explains why Neo always fails no matter which path he choses. He's trying to escape from the wrong plane of existance. He consistantly fails to see the false dillema presented to him. Maybe the point is that death is the only way to escape. That's been the tried and true method for most religions.
What I would like to see, is not another Matrix movie but simply the Wachowski bros explaining what philosophy they were using. Basically, how do THEY understand it. What was their motivation. What did they intend to be symbolic and what did it represent?
Ben
Work Safe Porn
Still, there are some holes in Revolutions that are pretty gaping
Oddly enough, same is true for your mom. - warchoski bros.
You nailed it.
I'll go even further and say that things were explained. These movies are the most intellectual action movies that have ever been released, and I doubt we'll have the opportunity for such things to be made ever again.
The Oracle said the power of the One reaches to the Source. This is why he can feel anything connected to the Machines, including Smith in the real world. That seemed obvious.
Smith entering Bane is less obvious, but I figure if they can download training programs or connect to a virtual reality, programs can also hijack a brain through those same ports.
As for how Neo actually destroyed Smith, it is implied, not explained...things aren't spelled out for the idiots. You can draw endless conclusions. The Oracle said Smith is Neo's opposite, his negative...1 + (-1) = 0. Or you can say once Neo was destroyed, the equation had to "rebalance" itself again, killing Smith.
Hell, look up what the name Sati means and find out the deeper meanings of that ending.
But people don't look at it that way. The thing I find most interesting is that most reviews say it's better than Reloaded, yet give it a worse rating than Reloaded (RottenTomatoes has Reloaded at something like 76%, compared to the 36% of Revolutions).
People just didn't like that it wasn't a Hollywood ending. I will say that this movie has the most hidden religious and philosophical imagery I've ever seen...it's all way more subtle than Reloaded (who noticed the glowing cross and wings when Neo was killing Smith? Who noticed the Fibonacci sequences in the intro, and the reveal of the Machine City? Who noticed that bizarre "goathead" symbol in the Matrix code when the intro finished?).
"Sufferin' succotash."
I second that. As I understand them now, I would much rather that they left what happens after the matrix/animatrix (yes, I loved them) to my imagination.
But is isn't the end. That is what Matrix Online is ...
Then ending was good. It was the part between the end of movie 1 and the last half hour of movie 3 that sucked ass.
The oracle said that Neo has powers in the 'real world' because the powers of the one extend all the way back to the "Source."
Isn't the "Source" part of the matrix?
The Lone Gunmen?
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Thanks for the spoiler on the front page, asshole.
They didn't surrender. They were threatened by Smith as well.
The license plate of Smith's car in Reloaded is a Bible reference which mentions his name. Smith is the main villain of the movies.
Presumably, machines can't lie (they haven't in any of the movies), so they keep their word.
"Sufferin' succotash."
Because it's a lame plot device. It's called a deus ex machina; literally "god from the machine".
It's funny you mention that. Guess what the name of that big spiky machine at the end is? Its name, though not mentioned in the movie, is the Deus Ex Machina.
"Sufferin' succotash."
Just got back from seeing the movie. First of all, the movie kicked ass. It beat the shit out of the second one. So why does everyone hate it?
The reason is pure, flat out, in your face, ignorance and hypocrisy. Ignorance is not knowing what the deal was after seeing the first movie - filled with symbolism and blatantly obvious references to the culmination in Revolutions that pissed everyone off. It is proof that they hate without knowing, which brings us to hyprocrisy.
The story ended with a definative answer to the deeper questions asked throughout the trilogy, and people hated the answer that was provided. They hated it because of prejudice and intolerance, which is exactly why they claim to hate that answer in the first place.
As well put by the movie, the two most important things in human experience are belief and choice. Don't let anyone take either away from you. See the movie and decide for yourself.
who are those slashdot people? they swept over like Mongol-Tartars.
That last battle with Smith, starting with the trash talking, then with the flying around, impact waves, sending that shockwave through the ground, the reversal thr trick...
...and In the Next Episode of Matrix Ball Z...!
It's Cell, all over again!
The Wachowskis are known for not leaving anything out. They storyboard everything massively. I heard Joel Silver say there was nothing left on the cutting room floor from Reloaded. The only thing I've heard of that could be definitely considered a deleted scene is something having to do with Cipher and the car crash in the first movie...there was more to that. To this day I don't know what happened or why it's a big deal that there was a car crash, and apparently there was a scene for that which got edited out for whatever reason.
"Sufferin' succotash."
No imagination at all.
It's not hard to get. It really isn't. But if you try to think about it too much, the plotholes just kind of consume you. That's very frustrating to me.
The whole Matrix universe is so contrived in the story to carry quaint little philisophical gems for idiots to "discover" and feel real cool about themselves. It's so incredibly phony that I feel violated. The movie isn't even internally consistent in this respect (no "mantra", if you will, unlike, let's say, Lord of the Rings)
Arrgh
...so that they can cram as many little east-meets-west philosophical treats like so many marshmellows in your Lucky Charms- and idiots can "discover" them and feel real good about themselves because they're not wasting away 2 hours and 8 dollars in a theater, they're getting a nutritional part of your balanced spiritual breakfast.
I'm sorry. That's just wrong.
You know, those hidden little lessons would be about ten times more effective if you could actually follow the plot and believe that those ideas "make sense" in the Matrix world, or any world for that matter. Or not be turned off by the whispering-as-acting, in any case.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
When Neo met the machines he agreed to stop the smiths if the machines would stop attacking zion. He jacked into the matrix by connecting directly to the machines.
At the end of the fight Neo allowed himself to be absorbed by the smiths. He then became part of the smith network. At this point the smiths thought they had won, but they didn't realise that Neo was connected to the machines. The machines could then use Neo as a backdoor into the smith network and hack them. This is why the cables going into neo's body started glowing with so much information just before the smiths died.
You know what amuses me about you people who bash the ending for allowing more sequels or for the possibility of more movies to be made is that you ignore the fact that Joel Silver, all the actors, and the Wachowskis have said there will absolutely be no more Matrix movies, and that this is the story they wanted to tell.
Next.
"Sufferin' succotash."
CowBoy Neal,
You may not have seen the film. Neither have a lot of the rest of us.
But posting a story with your own comment of "I'm ever so happy the matrix-within-a-matrix theories were unfounded." is one hell of a fuck-off spoiler, don't you think?
Do you simply not think, or do you actually put effort into consideration of "What is the most idiotic comment I can make here?"
--
MJ
Read this guys explanation/review and compare with Roger Ebert.... http://movies.yahoo.com/mvc/dfrv?mid=1808402448&s= &rvid=255-69646&i=2&spl=&ys=UuzsfjrphnFmlvbrodHv4w --
now, the only way i can think of making the ending really cool would have been to have multiple endings... and not tell anyone!! with the matrix being such a big movie... one which even philosophers talk about... you can only begin to think of the havoc that kind of thing would have on people.
but, i dont think they did that... or did they? ;-)
Here's a crash course for you guys who haven't heard of this wonderful series. (This coming from a guy who hates comic books and comic book characters in general)
i bl es/
http://www.rotten.com/library/culture/the-invis
. SLASHDOT: Home of the vicious nerd.
STOP saying that Revolutions doesn't have the usual Hollywood mindless happy ending! Let's see... what did it have? The usual Hollywood mindless ending!
The only thing missing was the happy other than that it was an ending that answered nothing and was open-ended at best.
I don't think the Architect is meant to be the antichrist. He's kinda hoping that Neo will set off a chain reaction triggering the destruction of the (imprecise) humans, but he doesn't mind terribly if Neo simply gathers 23 pod-born and re-inserts his code into the matrix to begin the cycle again. Isn't the antichrist supposed to, well, try a little harder than that?
Cause zion was too lame
At the beginning of Revolutions, I thought I heard them say they had 20 hours until the machines reached Zion. Did I mishear that?
Having wasted $8 due to interest in a cheap thrill and a willingness to expose my ears to more rediculously loud digital sound, I thought that the movie did have some potential and would have been reasonably good if 1) they tried to make it a coherent science fiction story instead of a last minute re-edit of "Gone With the Wind", 2) slashed the amount of new-age BS dialogue that did nothing to advance the plot. Perhaps the production team had a lot of bad luck during filming that forced them to make last minute changes, but I don't see why they couldn't create an intelligent story instead of relying on psychobabble and pseudoprofundities to cover up huge plot holes and embarassingly obvious continuity holes. But it's over now and the W. brothers are laughing their way to the bank. The best advice they can get now is to take the money and get out of town.
anybody who has studied the subject of Mythology knows the importance of all the symbols and the Path of the hero. Yeah yeah, Good, Evil, the Path, the Hero. Nothing new...
I was proponent of the layered Matrix theory until I saw the Revolutions. I agree that presenting and speculating on such a theory would have been a disaster in a cinematographic sense. The presence of Neo's connection to the Surce is all I needed to know. Why would they need explain it further? I think people need to use their imagination more often...
I after re-watching Reloaded again I give trilogy a 10+. Wonderful!
Ok, first of all, let me just feed my ego and post this link. This is the post that I made on the subject right after Reloaded, and in it I pointed out that they *would* do the god, Christ, and reunification of man and machine plot. There, now I feel better. :)
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=65437&cid=60 36 019
That being said, let me just point out the main reasons this Trilogy has been ruined as a major piece of sci-fi. Note that I didn't say it made the thing sucked completely and horribly; there is a difference. The series is still awesome for what it offers, but there were many (including myself) who had expectations of sci-fi (logical) purity. Those expectations simply weren't met.
Some will argue that the Trilogy put forth the ultimate in depth and philosophy, and that the reason so many complain is because they aren't smart enough to get it. This is utter crap. People who believe this have missed the boat, and I encourage them to read something like "The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect" in order to see what true sci-fi is.
In my view the difference is this: while true sci-fi asks you to believe something extraordinary, it takes great care not to break the rules that it lays down for itself. And once you accept the principle thing they are asking you to believe, you can then pursue the rest of the story as if it is more or less true science. *THAT* is, in my opinion, *true* sci-fi.
My contention, and the contention of many others, is that this Trilogy is nothing more than a collection of very cool concepts drawn from mythology and philosophy, wrapped up in an attractive action/marital arts/special effects shell. Again, this is a winning combination if you accept it for what it is, but it should *not* be mistaken for true sci-fi genius. Here's why:
1. The energy source issue is lame at best. It just doesn't work. You can keep a human vegetable alive for years with very little going on in their brain. THEY DON'T NEED THE MATRIX to keep bodies alive. If you grow humans and make them into idiots with a minimal amount of brain activity, you can just feed them for decades and they will produce all the power that they would in the Matrix. The fact that they are living out a 9-5 job in the Matrix isn't going to generate the machines any more juice than just keeping them alive. Hell, even if it DID generate more energy, would it be so much that it offset the expenditure of maintaining the Matrix? I think not. Either way, this power source issue is the ENTIRE reason for the movie. Without the use of humans as batteries there is no Matrix, no Neo, no Zion (read on to see why there would be no Zion). The entire Trilogy rests on the energy issue, and it doesn't hold water.
2. The second major problem lies in the fact that you can't build a f*cking city that deep inside the earth. Ask any scientist who's versed in the matter; it's not possible. Again, they are asking quite a bit of the viewer in this regard.
3. They never covered how Neo, a flesh and blood human, is able to exert control over machines in the real world. You see, what they did was switch everything up on us. This started as a sci-fi movie - the scorching of the sky, the underground city, and the war vs. the machines. This was the plot originally, and I think it was a good one. The fact that there was a false reality where the computers kept humans was very cool, and the fact that you could do cool shit while in the Matrix was cool. But the whole thing was laid out as science. Morpheus asks if Neo thinks he's breathing air in the simulation. Logic guided that. The fact that you have to "believe" about the jump program, again, guided by logic. At that point, they hadn't broken their own rules (even though the initial things they were asking you to believe were massive). The problem, however, is that they ended up, in the third movie, with Neo as a Christ figure who could blow up machines with a mere thought. Huh? How so?
dmiessler.com -- grep understanding knowledge
At the beginning of the film, Neo is physically unplugged from the matrix. In fact, he's lying down in the ship's medical ward in a catatonic state. When his conciousness escapes from the "train station"/limbo/whatever, he wakes up in a chair with the dipstick stuck into his net. How do you explain this? The simplest explanation is that the production people filmed two or three slightly different versions of the same movie and
then filmed some a few new dialogue scenes and spliced it all together two days before the scheduled release date. As is the case with post-80's blockbusters, the special effects are just great, but on the whole it's on par with "Plan 9 from Outer Space".
He just further insults people who, heaven forbid, didn't want one of the possibilities of the film knocked off for them.
:P
Thanks, CowboyNeal. And thanks for disregarding reader anger and pretending it's not a big deal. Jerk.
"Sufferin' succotash."
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Okay, you know how the kid announces to all of zion that the war is over? I think a better ending would have been for him to go there but have everyone dead...except for 23 people; 16 women and 7 men. That way it would be clear that humanity will be enslaved forever, because this Neo made a different choice than his predecessors and they still ended up with the same result. The Merovingian said that choice is an illusion between people with power and people without it. It would have been extremely dark and definitive but still would have left people scratching their heads. Fwiw I enjoyed the movie
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spoiler ended
Yeah, subtle like a brick to the head.
Let's start out with Smith-in-hijacked-human-body refering to Neo as some kind of Messiah. Of course the term Messiah, combined with the facts that Neo had just been horibly blinded, if he was really blind he was going to get his ass-kicked, and although Neo dying was a possibility it was way too early for it to happen, immediatly led to the conclusion, "He's going to be able to see with his new and improved real-world mystic powers, just like Paul in Dune." Sure enough, when all seems lost, Neo suprises Smith-3749 with his ability to see, and proceeds to kick his ass.
Having already set up the messianic theme, it was pretty damn obvious when Neo assumes the crucified position during the final fight. Oh look, he's sacrificing himself to save humanity, just like christ! Oh my! Not only is he in a crucified pose, he's got a big glowing cross superimposed on him! And now he's got giant glowing angel wings! And now he's dead and being carried away by a god-like figure, and look! More glowingness and angel wings!
The only way they could have been any more obvious was if the Oracle had extended her final speech a little bit, from "I think we'll see him again someday," to, "I think we'll see him again someday, in three days when he rises again!" I started to groan about the point the blatantly obvious cross of fire was superimposed over Neo, and had a hard time paying serious attention to the rest of the movie while i gagged on the over the top christian imagery.
As for the rest of what you said, i mostly agree. The theme behind Neo's destruction of Smith was pretty clear, but i really would have liked to have known more details. Was it a fundamental incompatibility between the two "Ones," like a matter-anti-matter reaction? Was it Neo acting from within the Smith collective? Was it the Machine acting on the Smith collective with Neo as a conduit? (That last seems possible given the behavior of the machines in the real world when Neo was taken over, need to watch a few more times to be sure.)
The bit that annoyed me was that it wasn't apparent that Neo actually took any action once he sacrificed himself. Although someone else has pointed out that this is consistent with the passive nature of christ, it doesn't really fit with what i expected of Neo, christ figure or not. It was clear after the first half of the fight that Neo wasn't going to win by physically beating Smith, but it didn't have to be through total passivity, there was a lot of middle ground that could have been covered.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Revolutions instead gave us man and machine, living in some kind of weird state of... not-war. (Sadly, no word has been invented for this yet).
Well then damit, let's invent one! I nominate "peace". Do I hear a second?
Alright. I really did enjoy Revolutions. It was fun, for the most part unexpected, and handled the ending pretty well. The ending didn't really surprise me, though,
But what's really eating me over the last few days is to the levels the fans are elevating these movies to, and anyone who disagrees "doesn't get it' or "can't use their brain." It's the exact same kind of self-importance I've been seeing for years from Evangeline fanboys.
The first Matrix movie communicated philosophy ideas to the general masses. The sequels however, if you read most of the posts by people picking the apart, are more or less just allegorical name-dropping for experts in world religion. Rather then communicating it's themes to the audience, it expects you to familiar with a lot of things already. Kind of like Kill Bill and it's constant nods to Asian movie geeks. The exact reason I liked Kill Bill, but you don't see me going around criticizing the film tastes of anyone who didn't recognize the yellow jumpsuit, or think "Takashi Miike" at the sight of all the blood.
Not to mention that have you ever stopped to think if everything you read is intentional? I mean I notice this a lot with English lit classes I've had to take. Teachers will go on and on about the meanings and symbols in a book, but I often question weather this was intentional or not. I've turned in many projects in various media classes where the teacher or another student has found a "theme" or something in a work of mine that was never intended, simply because they were trained by years of analyzing literature to search for such things. Lately I've learned that using vague, abstract language goes a long way to aiding this.
I mean, take for instance whatever your least favorite movie is. I bet if I actually watched it, and thought about it enough, I could find some kind of deeper, metaphoric meaning, religious/literary/historical allegory, or symbolism to it, that certainly would redeem the movie to the point that if you still didn't like it, well then, you must just be not enlightened enough to understand...
Anyway, to sum it all up, remember. Liking of a particular media != an I.Q. test.
At the end, the Oracle made the Architect promise to let the people out of the Matrix. Didn't this imply that the humans would be released from the Matrix and they would no longer grow humans for the Matrix? This means there is no more Matrix. The next movies would need to be about us taking over the robots in the real world. i.e. Terminator 4 Plus...the robots are dependant on humans for energy, which they can't get anymore because the Matrix is done with. They kinda shot themselves in the foot if they're thinking about making more matrixs. Then again...we're talking hollywood here..
Why was the hardest hit Neo ever delivered to Smith the very last slo-mo-punch-you-20-feet-into-the-concrete coincident with his mind being made up to finally just submit and lose to his enemy? (That being the 'inevitable' conclusion.) He was all weak, wobbly, and tired, yet he nearly caved Smith's face in with that punch.
... sortof like chinese finger prison.
Why was the active choice to lose and die, any better than the unwilling loss and death Neo had apparently suffered from battles in previous 'lifetimes'? His struggling led to his destruction and catastrophe in past lives. If he would relax and lose, then he could win
Philosophically, this is like a division by zero for me. I can see mechanically how it worked because, as Neo relaxed allowed himself to be compromised by the Smith program at the end, he also allowed the source at the machine city to analyze the Smith code and issue the terminate command. The machine city was "hacked" into the matrix through Neo, and they used his psychic link combined with Smith's code (which had a psychic link to all the other Smith's) to trip the matrix reboot and delete the Smiths'.
Neo returned to the source physically in Revolutions rather than psychically as he could have in the Architect room in Reloaded. Because of this, I suppose he was able to save the lives of everyone in the Matrix. Why this distinction is important escapes me. This may be a simple Jesus/Faith-like story.
Anyhow, a mechanical "giving up and submitting to the pain of life and accepting fate" == "ultimate goal achieved" makes sense storywise. But there is a deeper philosophical reasoning behind this plot point that disagrees with me. How can making choices like this be a Good thing spiritually? What is the point of this?
It's questions like this that make me disappointed with the Matrix movies until I gain understanding. Like when Morphius held the red/blue pills and did his slavery and Alice in Wonderland schpiels. My immediate thought was "oh god, this movie is soo stupid." Two scenes later when Neo wakes up, all I could think was "Oh GOD, this movie is soo great!"
Oh yeah, and I don't think Neo died at the end. He was still "aware" of that robot death barge that carried him away from the precipice at the end. It appeared like a winged angel to him, but he was alive to 'see' it. So, I don't think Neo died, in fact I bet he continues to live with the machines and will be allowed to return in later Matrix movies.
Smith: Search your feelings
Neo:*look of horror* No, it can't be...
Smith: You know it's true!
Neo: That's impossible!
Fight then proceeds, and Neo is horribly maimed. And if one wanted to really stretch the analogy, he has his disfigurement replaced with a "prosthetic" that brings him even closer to being what his nemesis is.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Yeah, i notived the distinct lack of armor on the AMPs(?) as well. However a more pressing point...
Let's pretend an idiot designed the armored suits. Or perhaps a sadistically efficient one (if you make the human pilot easy to kill, maybe the sentinels will just kill the pilot without damaging the suit so another pilot can quickly drag the corpse out and get it running again?) who the hell decided on the placement of those things?
Up until this point they've been spewing a lot of defense lingo that sounds halfway reasonable, and then they place most of the armored suits in the middle of the freakin catwalks. (Well okay, they're really big catwalks, but still)
I couldn't help but wonder before the battle started why they weren't all along the edges of the cavern in fortified positions? And sure enough, once the fighting started, we saw more than one suit get taken out when a sentinel nailed it from behind while they were focusing on the other side.
Even if they couldn't have rigged any kind of cover at least placing them along the outside rim of the cavern would have prevented all those losses from rear attacks.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Neo was told by the Architect that his role was to fully express the instability in the matrix and at the architect's cue, to enter the door and share his code with the source. Both losing Trinity and his defiant self, but saving humanity.
Neo would have none of this
So in the end, he joined directly with the source, lost Trinity and himself, and saved humanity.
It turns out that the Architect and the Oracle are much more similar than at first glance. The architect is an old-school architect that plans everything out before-hand and forces everyone into this "perfection". The Architect generally hates choice as it is too complex to adequately design for during the design phase.
Humans generally hate being forced and like to think that they have free choice. Some people hate being forced so much that they can't stand being forced into something nice and generally pleasant for them. These people are the remainder of the equation that the Architect can't abide. With the architect alone, the matrix consistently failed because of these people that couldn't stand to be forced. It is the Oracle control mechanism that works for this last remainder.
Neo did exactly what he was supposed to, but only because he was manipulated by the Oracle into thinking that it was his decision. The Oracle pulls, the Architect pushes.
It is the Oracle that is guiding the changes in Neo from one version of Neo to the next. She influenced Trinity's feelings for him and she influenced his development. She was designed to create a workable Matrix (because the Architect couldn't do it on his own), but she is also fighting for power against the Architect. At the end of the third movie, she holds a great deal more power than ever before. She has changed the fate of Zion and the way in which the one passes his hidden bits to the source (much to the displeasure of the Source having to physically make an agreement with the human).
Further, I think the Matrix proves deeper than what we are shown and I think that Smith's monologue to a drugged Morpheus in part 1 reveals it. He talks of how the first Matrix was a utopia that was a failure because humans define their existance through misery. He says that this human problem lead to the present Matrix. The present Matrix is not particularly miserable, perhaps unpleasant in areas, however, Zion and the real world are a very unpleasant reality (destroyed world, perpetual hiding, constant fear of attack and death). I also assert that the Matrix and Zion/real world are actually inside another Matrix. For the people that don't like being told what to do even if it is pleasant. For these people, the machines have created a truly deplorable place, but one of their own choosing.
The humans that can't take the Architect's grand lovely Matrix have their very own hell-hole of "truth" and "reality".
Many of the programs are aware of this and look down on the sheep and the masochists.
The strongest evidence for this higher level Matrix however, is the Oracle's power. She can "see" the future. This of course is drivel, that is, unless there was a higher level of abstraction above the Matrix that was shaping and guiding the Matrix beneath it. The Oracle has access to this higher-level Matrix and that is how she can predict what is going to happen.
Because she is a comparative God that lives within the Matrix, she is far more powerful than what she appears and that is why her powers are of such a lustful nature to the Frenchman. She does after all, have her own angel.
Whatever lies above the Matrix is unknown. This higher-level Matrix explains away the whole "human battery" thing, but not the stupidity in which the "real humans" accept it.
For me, Revolutions was as much of a teaser for the next movie as anything. The revolution brought us back to almost the same place (except that Zion doesn't need to be rebuilt, but rather continues). The one has fullfilled his designed role (in a slightly different way than normal) and the cycle is set to repeat. Along with the Oracle, I expect to see Neo again some day.
relativePositioning
"I'm a loner Dottie, a rebel."
- Pee Wee Herman
Interesting comment. Essentially you are saying that even though Neo went through the door that the Architect didn't want him to go through, the end result was the same. However, this is not the case as there is peace between humans and machines, where in previous versions of the matrix the machines end up destroying Zion. I think what you mean to say is there is "balance". But you can use this idea to explore the theme more deeply.
Drawing a conclusion from this line of thought, the Architect would have preferred if Neo went through the door that he wanted him (Neo) to go through because the desired outcome would have been achieved through predictable (i.e. safe from the machine's point of view (The machines are deterministic also and exist in a deterministic reality) rather than the unpredictable unknown outcome that Neo chose by going through the door that he wanted to go through. Neo went through the door he did because of his love for Trinity, and love (at least from the movie's perspective) is filled with unpredictability and unknowns.
The big threat to the machines is the Agent Smith program invading their own (the machine's) systems. This is another unknown that the Architect must be aware of but does not discuss with Neo. This is why the matrix would need to be either reloaded or destroyed. It is interesting -- nowhere in the Architect's speech does he say that the machines will destroy the matrix as Neo refers to a couple of times - (and hence kills their human batteries power source), but instead refers to a system crash that kills the humans. I will post the discussion Neo had with the Architect at the end of this comment.
Perhaps this is why the machines have to kill all of the humans in Zion (rather than keep around a few to regrow new batteries with) -- because the Agent Smith program is capable of invading human brains now, a la Bane. Remember - in previous versions of the matrix they successfully destroyed Zion five times before, but they still have their human battery farms each time. And the Architect tells Neo that if he goes through the door, he wants him to to choose a few humans to rebuild Zion with. A necessary but predictable evil that the machines know how to deal with. However, they do not know how to handle an Agent Smith program that wants to claim the matrix as his own. This is useless for the machines because the reality that Agent Smith wants to create (all humans in his own image/reality) is just as incompatible with humans as the perfect matrix was.
Remember when Agent Smith meets with the Oracle, he says "hello mother". Remember, the Architect refers to the "Oracle" in passing as the "mother" of the matrix. The Oracle is the mother of "choice."
Hence, Agent Smith represents "choice", more specifically "choice gone wrong", or from the perspective of the machines "control gone wrong". Agent Smith is all about control. Neo, on the other hand represents "ability to choose". Agent Smith wants to defeat "ability" to choose. However, Neo sees this at the end, and realizes that by "choosing" to loose and let Agent Smith kill him (if that's what he does), he actually wins the battle because the battle is about choice, and not strength. Agent Smith "chose" to win. He didn't have to, but the arrogance of ultimate control (power) seduced him in making the decision to. Thus achieving control over choice, or put another way, having ultimate control is having ultimate choice, while Neo, by giving up choice (to win) obtained ultimate control.
You could say that Agent Smith was "blinded" by his "arrogance", while Neo was blind could "see".
It's interesting that when Blade Runner first came out, everybody dissed it as mediocre, but time has proven the critics wrong. I suspect the same thing might happen here.
And the Hollywood ending everybody is whining about not having? -- it's hidden.
As I was thinking this through as I was posting, all my dominoes may not be lined up perfectly -- I will let other posters clean it up for me.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
Bullshit. The Merovingians where the first line of kings around 700-850 (?) a.C. in the Franconian kingdom. They never believed themselves to be descendeants of Jesus: this is just an old conspiracy theory. And they where thrown down by their counsellors because they were failing as they duty as kings: they weren't able to fight the Arab attacks on the Franconian kingdom they counsellor, Karl Martell, hab to do this in 832. When it came apparent they they couldn't reign the the Franconian kingdom decently, they're counsellors asked the pope to make on of the Pippin, grandson of Karl Martell, king, which indeed he did. This wasn't about religion, this was about power and the benfit of the country. The last Merovingian king was put in a monastry for the rest of his life. The new kings were the famous line of Karolingians which layed to foundations of France and Germany.
Please don't post rubbish here at slashdot about things you don't know. I don't post here anecdotes about US civil wars, too.
Owner of a Mensa membership card.
of the longest running movie that couldn't find even a bastardized review citation to put in it's adverts...
They couldn't defeat the squids on the dock. They were losing it.
So they were setting up to do a last stand in the temple. Which would have, eventually, fallen. Even if the squids had to get another digger.
So, you either use the EMP to knock out the squids or you die in the temple.
... check out The Miller's Tale in the Matrix Comics.
I have had some people say they thought the film was not good, and in each case, they had missed three important things:
1. What "Merv" said about the Oracle's eyes
2. The changes in Smith's eye color during the film
3. Who was left on the ground after the Smiths exploded (like, when did Neo grow breasts).
If you have people who don't like the film, ask them about "eye color" (or "colour", depending). Chances are, they'll just stare at you.
Are you kidding me? It was terrible! Why??
Neo was supposed to go collect a bunch of people to start the next Zion. Can't do that if they are all dead.
I think I have figured out more of the Matrix. Everyone is saying the The Architects' role is to balance the equation and the Oracles' role is to unbalance it. After thinking about this for a minute I believe that is not quite the case.
:) With a simple easy to follow to formula, everyone can see the answer and understand the equation. A complex formula is one that for most people isn't easy to understand by looking at (you need to solve it). In the Matrix this effectively takes away the perception of not having any choice. You have to walk the path to know the path.
:)
The Matrix system is still run by computers and everything needs to have an "end". The equation has to balance out eventually. I think a more accurate description of both of these roles would be: The Architect is trying to make the most efficient and simple formula possible (we all can relate to that). The Oracle however is supposed to make the formula more complex, and larger than required.
Now you might be asking why? The answer is choice
"You can't see past the answers you don't understand"
The Architect was never worried which door Neo would choose. Neo nailed it, but never understand just how right he really was. The problem is choice. That's the only reason both doors are there. It didn't matter if Neo took the easy short route or the long hard route. Both paths provided the same answer
The Merovigain (sp?) was the key to explaining everything, I understand his role better now. Choice is an illusion created by those with power (the machines) and those without (humans).
The peace at the end of the movie was another farce (brilliant!). They have once again (like the 5 times before) given the humans, outside the Matrix, the perception of choice yet again. The machines still control the earth and likely always will. They aren't worried about a few rogue humans leaving the Matrix, the machines know that in the end the humans can't go anywhere and they will always be controllable at some level. Continuing to allow the humans a perception of choice will ensure this.
The part that does leave a sour taste though is the simple fact humans do not make viable battery sources. I still don't understand where the remainder of the power was coming from.
... [Insert decent Sig]
I think this thread of comments is hard proof that the Matrix series was a success. Some here hated it, some here loved it. Doesn't matter. Almost all of us saw it, and we're spending countless hours reading explainations, writing our own, and posting comments like this.
The makers of the Matrix set out to make people think, and we're looking at proof of their success.
In the beginning, there was nothing... which exploded. - Terry Prachett
Ok... I'm going to tell you some NOT *SPOILERS(DON'T READ, REALLY)*
Neo and Trinity don't survive.
Neo doesn't fail to save Zion
The Matrix doesn't NOT reboot
Smith doesn't NOT take over Neo
How's that? I only told you things that wouldn't happen, right?
What is Matrix?
less is more
...do I get a prize?
Heres the bit where i get stuck...
If you take a look again at the first movie, Smith says to Morpheus the first matrix was a disaster and that entire crops were lost, suggesting an inbalance on the positive side of the matrix.
Then Smith mentions about humans defining their existence through pain and suffering, therefore making the matrix into a negative existence, which also puts the matrix in a position where its own existence is threatened.
Now, as mentioned earlier in a thread on here.. 1 -1 = 0, so therefore a balance is reached at the end cancelling each other out, so if thats the case, why does the oracle believe at the end of revolutions that they will see Neo again?
>>Sati's name gave away the entire ending. I don't think there was anything more to her than that.
It not Sati, its Sathi: a common name in the indian subcontinent (hindu or otherwise). Sathi means companion. The practice you mentioned may be spelled "Sati" in English, but its wouldnt be pronounced like that by an indian.
keep your leaps of ignorance to yourself!
Deja Vu, you saw the glitch in the Matrix!
How can anybody be so stupid as to put a spoiler in headline of an article. There is no way anybody could be that dumb. I don't believe it, it's ...
(What? It was posted by who? CowbodyNeal? Oh, ok. I forgot to put up my CowboyNeal is a moron filter, nevermind).
If there is one person that can't think outside his personal world view, it is CowboyNeal.
Some folks who've never seen the Twilight Zone or even the Simpsons' Treehouse of Horrors thought that was a spoiler. If you're one of those people, I'm very sorry.
I have never seen these "movies" (?) but, given the way you introduce my fellow folks, I somehow doubt you mentioned us respectfully.
Now, lemme tell you.
I considered the only decent way the Matrix could have ended would have implied some Metamatrix.
Now, by simply riting what you wrote, I consider you did not spoil that movie's suspense, but you just confirmed me that my money will never get in the WachoBros pockets.
So, I guess they'd better sue people such as you and your wannabe journalism for their increased lack of audience.
Mode me down please : validate my point.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Yeah, some of us do.
You can't take the sky from me...
My opinion, which is wrong, but still my opinion anyway is that the Matrix is a hollywood indictment. Perhaps it is a minor indictment of Megasoft as well. It is a combination of Total Recall meets Hotel California. In the title track to the album Hotel California Don Henley quips, "we are programmed to recieve, you can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave." You can never leave the Matrix. Thus you will never see the real world, ever. When Morpheous quips, "what is real" he is asking on behalf of the W brothers, "what is not-real, what is entertainment"? After all, isn't all future entertainment going to be a computer generated dream world? Think about what Cipher said, "I know what you are asking yourself, why didn't I just take the blue pill?" In fact, looking at reality from Cipher's point of view "living" is more real and more attractive inside the Matrix. I certainly wouldn't want to live on that ship eating gruel. AT this point the W brothers are making their statement point blank, Hollywood will eventually be able to offer you a better "reality" then your boring, gruel riddled life can every hope for. At that point entertainment becomes control, a drug addiction and so most people won't be able to be unplugged, ever. What if you could plug in to entertainment 24 hours/day? What kind of movie would it be? Would it be utopia? As Agent Smith quips, "the program wouldn't take." The Matrix then, like all good science fiction, looks into the future and comes to a conclusion: beware being seduced by technology lest we lose our grip on what is "real" and what is "entertainment" and in the process lose our sense of self and end like Agent Smith who states, "purpose, there is no purpose, the only purpose is to end." Finally, I also get the moment of Magritte who's painting of a pipe includes the phrase, " this is not a pipe."
But the idea that the humans were generating electricity is proposterous. I have said it since the begining of the Matrix series...
Me too. Fortunatly, there was a better explanation provided right from the start.
This story By Neil Gaiman, wich was allways available on the matrix website and is on the Matrix DVD, offers a much sensible solution.
AND it is provided by an Agent of the Matrix, who actually knows what he's talking about, and not by Morpheus, who specifically states that the people of Zion don't know why the machines keep us in the Matrix, they just guessed.
You can't take the sky from me...
Well... technically, Ockham's Razor is the principle proposed by William of Ockham in the fourteenth century: "Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate."
The generally accepted English translation of that states that "Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily."
And without multiplication, math becomes crippled, man! So like, maybe a universe that can be quantified in mathematics isn't more plausible than "an infinitely complex and powerful beeing, that can't be predicted, or expressed in math"!
MY GOD MAN, OCKHAM'S RAZOR JUST PROVED THE EXISTENCE OF GOD!
Of course, this sudden display of logic is someone's cue to bring up the Hitchhiker's Guide proof of the nonexistence of God, but... never mind.
"We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech." - David Brin
I saw it earlier this afternoon and it gave me a headache and I feel like thorwing up still. Haven't had anything to eat since then. Aside that, pretty good movie.
I'm ever so happy the matrix-within-a-matrix theories were unfounded.
As was the theory that "Neo" wakes up after a Wyld Stallyns concert.
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
When Neo was in the train station in the Matrix, he was lying on a bed in the medical room, not jacked in. When Neo was saved by Trinity and came back to the real world, they were pulling a jack out of his head. Did they move Neo from the medical bed to a jack station (poor wording I know) while he was still in the Matrix? If not, what happened? If so, why would they move him?
"The whole plot about the purpose of having humans in pods "generating" electricity for the machines was never explained.. The laws of thermodynamics do not allow for this, and that is why the movie seems to not be closed completely for me..."
Cars run on gasoline. Gasoline is a distillate of oil, which comes from fermented organic matter. It powers our cars on the same principle as the Matrix, essentially. You have lots of human bodies. With the body paralyzed, all muscle spasm electricity goes to the Matrix. With the body paralyzed, all excess heat generation can be skimmed off via peltier devices, which generate electricity. If you have enough humans, this isn't an issue at all. It's just like any other energy pyramid.
Yes, you do need lots of humans. Billions to support the machines. However, given what I've seen of the scope of the Matrix in the movies and side stories, I believe this to be entirely possible. Although I'd expect that, at some point, the machines would design and launch solar energy collecting satalites which could send microwave beams to Earth. Perhaps the humans' sky darkening technology blocks this, though.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Do you guys remember Highlander 2: the Renegade Version? I'm proposing Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions: the Renegade Version. All it would take is: A few fans with the DVDs, the right software, and plenty of time on their hands.
I still think it's a Matrix within a Matrix, but not the way most people probably think. I thought that the point they were making was that Neo touched a *greater* Matrix which contained both the machine world and the humans, perhaps all existence, and that the point of the films has been that we exist within that Matrix. This Matrix wasn't a VR. The VR prison for folks' minds, was just a metaphor for the greater Matrix.
"i can look past some silly stuff. for example: ...
- sentinels weren't able to be shot at in previous movies; only emps worked"
EMPs were the only weapons that'd kill a sentinel and any backup sentinels in a large enough range that they wouldn't be able to turn tail and go get backup.
"- for that matter, sentinels never relayed back to other computers when they found a ship"
And I quote, "let's bring the Logos up to broadcast depth so we can enter the Matrix." Radio works, but when you're a few km under ground in tubes of metal, it doesn't work so well. By EMP blasting them before they could leave, the Sentinels couldn't do it. In the most recent movie, there was a complete tunnel all the way down from the surface, plus millions of Sentinels who were all relaying information back and forth with their point-to-point radios.
Think a little harder on what you think of as issues, and you'll see there's a deeper explanation.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I am connected to the Internet via 'my computer'. Isn't 'my computer' then a higher level Internet?
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
...so here's the answer in my mind.
Everyone wants to know how Neo defeated Smith by allowing himself to be absorbed. It's simple. The Matrix is so uber complex and houses so much raw data it was impossible for the master computer Neo interfaced with to isolate and destroy all the Smith code bit by bit. When Smith absorbed Neo, the machines were able to use the corrupted Neo to isolate and eliminate all the Smith code from the Matrix just like you would with "Find and Replace" in your favorite Word Processor. Think of it as the ultimate anti virus software.
I don't personally know of any techs out there who'd sacrifice themselves to save their network...maybe they'll all be inspired by Neo's bravery!!
Seriously, I'm tired of all the bashing this series has received...it's a wonderful story and a very creative telling of what (in my opinion) is the second coming of Christ...accept this time the savior dies for the sins of both man and machine.
Honestly, the most exciting aspect of the films are not the films themselves, but the ideas generated after watching them. Will there be a new world religion shared by man and machine? Will there be other wars fought over personal beliefs and convictions centered around "The One?" Will there be a new "Bible?" Or...will the concept that upon the second coming of Christ those who are worthy will ascend be translated as: Man can no longer exist full scale in the real world because it is uninhabitable therefore the machines will create a world man can live in and make into anything they wish...i.e. "Heaven?"
All neat ideas...all spawned from this movie...which is what a good movie should be able to do...inspire its fans to think.
And then some. But then, you're gonna get scattershot narrative when your movie consists entirely of scenes and dialoge ripped off from other movies. I loved the scene they ripped off from the first Matrix -- that was postmodern wankage of excellence.
Here are some more things that were dumb:
Oh, go on, check out my job.
"Some folks who've never seen the Twilight Zone or even the Simpsons' Treehouse of Horrors thought that was a spoiler. If you're one of those people, I'm very sorry."
Well, I have seen both, and, for that matter, I have seen Revolutions too, and that STILL was a spoiler, and it WOULD have upset me if I hadn't seen Revolutions.
Now, I'm happy that CN has apologized, but does his ego really require him to snipe at the people who were rightfully upset at his needless spoiler?
Shame on you, CowboyNeal!
(8-DCS)
The Smith/Neo battle continued for a long time, but the length of the fight had nothing to do with Neo. It had everything to do with Smith. It seems Neo knew he couldn't win, but he also knew he couldn't lose. It was Smith that needed to reach "enlightenment" and realize that the battle would not end until something changed: until he merged with the other half of the One.
"So LoneStar, you see evil will always triumph over good because good is dumb"
Bane was possessed by Smith and took out most of their ships. They didn't have enough ships to carry all the people and those ships didn't seem to have the fire power of those mechs so the only reason would be to stop the ships from using their EMP against the squids.
The whole battle sequence was badly written. They must have known that their guns would not stop the squids. If you can't stop them with those weapons, your only options are to run, use different weapons or die.
Locke was setting up to have a last stand in the temple. They were getting ready to die. What kind of plan is that?
What about Zion's mainframe? Wasn't that what Smith wanted into in the first movie? But Zion doesn't seem to have any computerized defenses. Sure, the computer opens the doors and such, but why would Smith be so intent on getting access to Zion's mainframe in the first movie if Zion could be wiped out with squids and that seemed to have been the plan all along. At least that was the plan that The Architect told Neo in the second movie.
I got that The Merovingian represented Satan, but what exactly was the point of him? In particular, all this trainman stuff at the start of Revolutions seem to have no bearing on the rest of the story whatsoever.
It almost feels like The Merovingian could have been left out completely without affecting the overall storyline, but it would require a few adjustments to Reloaded to do so.
My thinking right now is that he was really just there to break things up a little.
Trinity: I can't come with you Neo!
Neo: Why?
Trinity: I have several thick metal rods passing through my abdomen.
Neo: Whoah! That sucks.
Trinity: Good luck! [Trinity snuffs it]
That death scene was so boring. It was the only scene in Revolutions which I got bored waiting for it to end. A similar sentiment was applied to the many-Agent-Smiths scene from Reloaded: sure, it was kinda cool at first, but it went on far too long.
The Matrix movie series was created by the evil movie industry to seduce the feeble minds of a certain type of indivual, you know who you are, (pretty much anyone reading this). Not only did you choose to attend all three in the series, but felt it important to spend a decent amount of time trying to analyze them. My husband happened to leave this web page open on my computer, yes I am married to one of you. I was shocked at the length of some of the comments people posted about this subject, do any of you have a life!!!! I cannot believe any of you actually take yourselves seriously. I also couldn't believe that you actually feel the need to read other peoples comments in order to know how you should feel about the movie. My husband just discovered I am writing this and is explaining to me your rating system, he explained that this would be a minus one troll. I just view that as your need to feel justified in you abnormal dedication to a horrendous movie. The rating system just proves my point, that you all know your behavior is unwarranted, it's just a movie! Now hearing my husband explain this rating system, makes me think that maybe he is just a little too far gone for my taste. Well, I hope the evil movie industry puts out another Matrix movie for all of you, then atleast you'll have something to live for.
Actually, it DOES relate, but not in the way you assume:
:)
Brief Myth: Sati (or Parvati) was the beloved wife of Shiva (The creator/destroyer god whose name has been referenced about a gazillion times in gamergeek culture). Sati is supposed to be the ideal wife, or something like that.
Sati's father hated Shiva, and conducted a big important ceremony without the couple. Shiva and Sati showed up, and Sati threw herself into the fire to desecrate the Vedic ceremony, and shame her father for dishonoring Shiva.
The practice of self-immolation is named such because (1) Sati was supposed to be a perfect wife, and an oppressive patriarchy co-opted her name to lend a noble, heroic shine to the act of (forced) suicide, and (2) it usually involved leaping into a fire, something the mythical Sati did, so it's technically Satikari or something like that, and "Sathi" for short.
BUT:
What if the Oracle had Sathi as a backup plan? What if Sathi was the next Trinity, or the next Neo, or even the next Smith? What if Sati was being raised as someone's perfect wife?
or
What if the Oracle planned for Sati to be absorbed, just as she planned for herself and Neo to be absorbed, in order to pollute the Smiths?
or
What if Sati was just a cute little program, and the Oracle fell in love? Smith absorbed Sati, and Sati's name is just irrelevant, and she's a cute little girl, and the EEEVIL Smith gets to show he's EEEVIL by absorbing her, just 'cause he can.
or
What if Sati was an exposition device, to show that Smith absorb people in the Matrix, instead of just overwriting them? If he just erased her and downloaded himself into the "shell," then he wouldn't know that cookies need love.
All of these interpretations could be true. It's all just speculation. And that sort of speculation adds to the deepness and the multiple levels of the film.
OK. That was a lot of knowledge
Neo has a mysterious power over the sentinels, no explanation.
He has a connection with the machines. Why is this so hard for people to understand? Right now, you are broadcasting brain waves, albeit very weakly. If I were to put electrodes around your head (without penetrating your skull), we could read your brain waves. You ARE broadcasting brain waves.
Why is it so hard to believe that maybe the machines could read these waves, and even communicate in reverse, thus completing a loop similar to a Matrix connection?
Neo has a mysterious power to see "yellow code" outside of the Matrix. No explanation.
Same explanation as above - Neo is "in tune" with the machines and is reading and communicating with them, on a subconscious level. Bane(Smith), of course, is too, and that's why Neo can see him, but no Trinity.
The machines are just about to destroy Zion, they turn back. No explanation.
Uhm, did you even see the movie? They stopped because Neo brokered a truce. He agreed to stop Smith if the machines would leave the humans alone. Neo succeeded, so the machines left the humans alone. This one was obvious - how could you have missed this?
The people in war mechas are totally exposed and don't even bother to wear a helmet. No explanation.
Perhaps they realized what a trivial amount of extra protection helmets would have provided, and determined it wasn't worth the effort to make them.
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
No text here.
Try to expand it and make a book out of it! This is the way things should end (although it's more tech-oriented than the raw philosophy stuff the saw on M1), and let the audiences gain some perspective on how to handle life's inconsistencies.
Great job! Awesome! Although it's too bad I won't see it on the screen :^(
He has a connection with the machines. Why is this so hard for people to understand?
Because it makes no sense.
Right now, you are broadcasting brain waves
No, I'm not.
If I were to put electrodes around your head (without penetrating your skull), we could read your brain waves. You ARE broadcasting brain waves.
You could detect electrical fluctuations on the skin wich correspond to "brain waves". They are not detectable without direct physical contact with the skin.
Why is it so hard to believe that maybe the machines could read these waves, and even communicate in reverse, thus completing a loop similar to a Matrix connection?
Ok, so they can't locate a ship full of humans and a charged EMP from 20 feet away (see first movie), but they CAN detect and send 2 way signals from a human brain many kilometers away, through miles of rock and steel...yeah...suuuuure...THAT makes sense to you? That's not sci-fi anymore, that's magic. The machines have magic powers, that's the explanation?
They stopped because Neo brokered a truce. He agreed to stop Smith if the machines would leave the humans alone. Neo succeeded, so the machines left the humans alone. This one was obvious - how could you have missed this?
So they had a deal. With a dead man. Once Neo did what they wanted, why are they honoring the deal? We are talking about machines that have laid waste to the world and have enslaved humanity. Who routinely kill off hundreds of thousands of people, who apparently NEED humans to serve as batteries or something, but they just decide to let them go and drop the war they were winning.
Read some history, don't even have to back far, read about Hitler and HIS deals and pacts of non agression, look how the powerfull behave when they make deals with the weak.
The machines turning back because they had a deal makes no more sense then having carebears show up and make them be full of love. It is irrational behaviour on their part: They were winning, all they had to do was to not turn around and give up.
You can't take the sky from me...