my understanding is (at least with my contract here in australia) that they do only own the rights to code I produce while I am physically at my workplace.
I do code in my spare time and I don't think my company could care less what I do with it...
fair enough. you may have heard there is some upset between facebook and zynga right now - with zynga threatening to leave and start up their own website.
I personally look forward to a facebook without farmville!
As I said earlier - Android 2.2 will include a JIT (apparently) so that should speed things up. However I'm not sure that the responsiveness issue is a java issue. I'd say the iPhone gives the UI a higher priority and throws more CPU cycles at it. I dont think the underlying language is relevant.
I also appreciate the example you gave. I wasn't saying there were no shortcomings - just that you said there were without mentioning any at all.
I appreciate your comments too - I find the same regarding responsiveness between the HTC Magic (mytouch - same thing) that I have and the iPhone. However, despite the large number of apps for the iphone, I find that its not as easy to search through them. I find the Android Market much easier to locate free software, and the search (being powered by google) is better as well.
I would like my phone to be more responsive but I'm not about to pay for an iphone just because of that.
I'm also running cyanogen on my HTC Magic - v5.0.7 test3 (Android 2.1) - it is LOTS quicker than 1.6 and everything works great!
um, you could always just not use google. I mean, their whole business revolves around advertising and if you dont like advertising then what do you expect them to do, work for free?
Shame on them for running a successful business. Here's a tip - every business needs advertising. If targeted advertising didn't exist, most of us wouldn't have jobs.
Not saying you have to look at them - that's your choice. But suggesting that google shouldn't advertise to us is just naive and ridiculous.
caught? you think they put the bugs there intentionally? seems like a strange feature dont you think?
There's a difference between intentionally leaking data and discovering a bug and fixing it immediately. Google did work very quickly to patch the holes that were discovered in Buzz immediately after it first launched.
Facebook suffers from the same thing, but when people complain about facebook's lack of privacy features, they're generally referring to facebook's intentional moves to make their users' private info public. That's a very different concern. I don't believe Google has been "caught" doing that yet...but expect a major upset if they do.
This isn't stealing. Almost all programming jobs will contain a clause saying your employer owns any code you write while you are at work there. It sucks sometimes but it is sort of fair depending on how you look at it. The whole notion of working for an employer revolves around you giving up something in exchange for money. In this case it is your freedom and your intellect/creativity/etc.
The issue here is that if your employer does not wish to make your changes public (and comply with the GPL) then these changes need to be removed from the public work...so that the public work can still meet the terms of the GPL.
They can indeed continue to use it in-house provided it is not "distributed" from one party to another.
As correctly pointed out in other posts in this thread, the GPL only comes into play when the work is copied/distributed. You can do whatever you like with GPL code in-house. It is only when you later distribute that work to another party, that you become bound by the terms of the GPL.
Also consider this: Releasing code publicly that your employer owns the copyright to, is actually stealing from your employer.
oops my bad - I meant 6% not 6 million. I'd imagine 6% is a LOT more than 6 million and therefore could indeed make the android sales total greater than all iPhone OS sales from the last quarter
Mate if I wanted an insult, I would've asked for one.
I used to run windows with no AV too. Fact is, it only takes 1 virus to bring your system down. Just 1. Also, sometimes a virus can exist for days without being detected. I'd be very concerned about running windows without AV software. Its a recipe for failure.
At least use MS Security Essentials - its free and pretty good.
thats only 3. and yes that is the only 3 versions that should exist in the wild right now...
Apps written for any version will work on all later versions. This isn't an issue.
1.5 and 1.6 are very similar so most apps should target 1.5 if they want to target the most users.
Apps written for 2.0 or 2.1 will not appear on Android Market for older phones. So users of older phones wont even know these apps exist, and there will be no incompatibility issues.
I laugh when people say it will end up like windows - may as well admit it will take over almost 90% of the market...i never had hardware/compatibility issues developing software for windows either.
It exceeded iPhone sales, not iPhone OS, as iPhone OS includes the iPod Touch and iPad. The sales of the iPod Touch are far from insubstantial.
Meanwhile, iPhone sales are down because new ones are due in June, as they have been the last three years. People know this (and if they don't, they ask a geek friend who does), and sales drop. Just watch, they'll skyrocket in June/July, just as they have the last couple years.
Well, how many iPod Touch's get sold these days...?
Either way, you can definitely include the iPad in there because Android sales were ahead by 6 million and I dont think the iPad has hit 6 million yet...
iPhone sales will more than likely skyrocket in June/July - but I fail to see how that has any bearing on this article right now. The fact remains, android DID smash iphone sales last quarter - and is the first new platform to do so since the iphone was launched. This is big news, no matter which side of the fence you're on. Have a look at how quickly Android has lept to the forefront...Apple needs to get this next iphone right. They probably will too...but this game wont be over for a long time...
I agree. if your phone doesn't have GPS for example, why would you want to run an app that relies on it? either the user needs a new phone or just dont use the app.
the developer can check for it in advance and disable certain features anyway. this is a different issue to programming for API levels.
If you have a phone running android 1.5, apps made for later versions wont show up on android market - meaning you wont even know they exist...so there is never any incompatibility issue.
There's been anecdotal evidence that there isn't as much money to be made writing Android apps as there is to be made writing iPhone apps.
One theory has gone "that's because the user base isn't there yet; when the users show up, the developers will come".
Well. It looks like the users are showing up in numbers that are becoming difficult to ignore. So now it's time to keep a close eye on app developers, and see what happens!
Except I don't think it is that simple. Just because there are that many android devices out there, does not mean they are all one market. From my understanding, they are essentially multiple versions of the hardware and software out there and each one must be effectively tailored to fit one particular model. You do not program for Android OS, but rather for the Droid or the G1 phones with whatever version of the Android OS they are running. Different screen sizes, phone features, OS versions, and controlling companies effectively make it impossible to make on app that could go everywhere. There may be more total Android OS phones out there but at any given time you can only develop software for one small selection of them.
WRONG. You program for the "API level" - which at the moment means either Android 1.5, 1.6 or 2.1. 1.5 and 1.6 are very similar, so lets simplify it and say that you'll program for 1.5, or if your app requires newer features then use 2.0. If you need newer android features, then your app isn't interesting to phones with an older version - so no problem there. If you dont need newer features, then target Android 1.5 and then all current androids can run your app without any problem.
The UI is designed to scale/stretch around any different screen size. If it looks wrong on different size screens, then it is the app developer's fault for hard-coding specifically for one size. Compare the development of windows GUI's to toolkits like Qt and GTK which use auto-sizing features.
So next time someone complains about the million different versions of Android out there - for a developer, there are only 2. One for the 1st generation of android phones, and one for the newer ones. Pretty soon the older ones will be superceded or upgraded anyway.
Crashes... most certainly. Several a day, but thankfully not system-wide.
Bugs aplenty spread across apps.
Feels a lot like the early days of Windows, actually.
Time to "unroot" your phone I think.
If your apps are crashing every day, use different apps. The rating system is there to be used...use it.
would you rather Google implemented Android Market the Apple way? it'd certainly improve the quality of the apps...but at the cost of your (and developer's) freedom...you cant have it both ways. the rating system should suffice for most of us...
The CPUs used in android phones have hardware acceleration for java. The apps themselves are tiny and they use barely any memory. Java may have been slow a few years ago, and some java apps you may have used might be badly written, but I think you need to adjust your prejudices. In any case, Android itself isn't written in java, and any java calls into the API will run native code. I doubt this has much impact (if any) on the performance of the OS. Android 2.2 will feature a JIT which will make it even faster, so maybe we need to revisit in a few weeks and see how slow this java thing is again...
I think you should've said "perceived" shortcomings because you didn't mention any area where android needs to catch up. It does everything the iphone does + more. It is now the iphone that needs to catch up - and I agree the 4G will do that. but with several top-brand manufacturers making quality android phones now, apple will need to bring something really special in order to not be overtaken again in 6 months time...
MOST new android phones now run Android 2.1 (all of HTC & motorola's latest offerings for example).
Either way, most apps are still designed for 1.5 even if some are targeting 2.0+. Those that are built for a later version wont show on Android Market if you use an older phone so its not like you'll be trying to download apps that wont run. I had no problems with apps on my HTC Magic (1.6).
This article is about android sales over the past quarter - I would suggest a large percentage of those android phones are indeed running 2.1.
Also why do you think Apple is bigger than flash? Right now flash has wider marketshare than Apple. A lot of the web relies on flash. Will everyone rewrite the web just for the iphone? no. If that were true it would've happened by now.
When websites dont work on the iPad, will people blame the website or the iPad? Time will tell.
Even without using Windows much (maybe once a fortnight?), I've averaged about 1 virus/malware every 1-2 years in the past.
I've changed AV providers over this sort of thing. But what choice do you have? Use an AV solution that is worse than half the viruses themselves, or choose a "pretty good" solution and carry some risk. Fortunately MS's own Security Essentials rates pretty well these days AND it keeps out of my way AND its free. If you ask me, it's years too late but at least it's there.
We should note that Paul here has both a vested interest in dogging on the ipad and a long history of making hyperbolic statements about how the iPad can't or won't succeed.
Also, the original graph clearly showed the growth rate changing, a flow variable, not the number of units, the stock. If the growth rate drops off and is replaced by growth in iPads, how in the world is that not a takeover? What manufacturer will net into a market where the rate of growth is much less than it was even 6 months ago.
(emphasis mine) because it isn't. A takeover means the iPad would be outselling netbooks....and it isn't...not even close. What it is is the iPad has taken a small bite from the netbook market. A very small bite.
To put it in perspective, Android is gaining on the iPhone/iPad marketshare a LOT faster than these figures...so at what point do we call that a takeover? the same applies here. I'd say netbooks are still very popular and the iPad still has a long way to go.
Slashdot Mirror
hey I do understand the difference, but it was a reference to the earlier post which claimed the employer was "stealing" the employee's code.
My /. id is at least a couple of years old. My karma is Excellent. I'm guessing from your use of AC that yours is not.
my understanding is (at least with my contract here in australia) that they do only own the rights to code I produce while I am physically at my workplace.
I do code in my spare time and I don't think my company could care less what I do with it...
fair enough. you may have heard there is some upset between facebook and zynga right now - with zynga threatening to leave and start up their own website.
I personally look forward to a facebook without farmville!
yeah I thought of the ramifications of the terminology as I was typing it.
I'm not a lawyer, but this may be a "grey area" of the GPL.
I do not believe that compiling or running the software would be in any way violating the spirit of the GPL however.
Provided you use the GPL as it was intended, you should be pretty safe I'd imagine.
As I said earlier - Android 2.2 will include a JIT (apparently) so that should speed things up.
However I'm not sure that the responsiveness issue is a java issue. I'd say the iPhone gives the UI a higher priority and throws more CPU cycles at it. I dont think the underlying language is relevant.
I also appreciate the example you gave. I wasn't saying there were no shortcomings - just that you said there were without mentioning any at all.
I appreciate your comments too - I find the same regarding responsiveness between the HTC Magic (mytouch - same thing) that I have and the iPhone. However, despite the large number of apps for the iphone, I find that its not as easy to search through them. I find the Android Market much easier to locate free software, and the search (being powered by google) is better as well.
I would like my phone to be more responsive but I'm not about to pay for an iphone just because of that.
I'm also running cyanogen on my HTC Magic - v5.0.7 test3 (Android 2.1) - it is LOTS quicker than 1.6 and everything works great!
um, you could always just not use google. I mean, their whole business revolves around advertising and if you dont like advertising then what do you expect them to do, work for free?
Shame on them for running a successful business. Here's a tip - every business needs advertising. If targeted advertising didn't exist, most of us wouldn't have jobs.
Not saying you have to look at them - that's your choice. But suggesting that google shouldn't advertise to us is just naive and ridiculous.
caught? you think they put the bugs there intentionally? seems like a strange feature dont you think?
There's a difference between intentionally leaking data and discovering a bug and fixing it immediately. Google did work very quickly to patch the holes that were discovered in Buzz immediately after it first launched.
Facebook suffers from the same thing, but when people complain about facebook's lack of privacy features, they're generally referring to facebook's intentional moves to make their users' private info public. That's a very different concern. I don't believe Google has been "caught" doing that yet...but expect a major upset if they do.
This isn't stealing. Almost all programming jobs will contain a clause saying your employer owns any code you write while you are at work there. It sucks sometimes but it is sort of fair depending on how you look at it. The whole notion of working for an employer revolves around you giving up something in exchange for money. In this case it is your freedom and your intellect/creativity/etc.
The issue here is that if your employer does not wish to make your changes public (and comply with the GPL) then these changes need to be removed from the public work...so that the public work can still meet the terms of the GPL.
They can indeed continue to use it in-house provided it is not "distributed" from one party to another.
As correctly pointed out in other posts in this thread, the GPL only comes into play when the work is copied/distributed. You can do whatever you like with GPL code in-house. It is only when you later distribute that work to another party, that you become bound by the terms of the GPL.
Also consider this: Releasing code publicly that your employer owns the copyright to, is actually stealing from your employer.
oops my bad - I meant 6% not 6 million. I'd imagine 6% is a LOT more than 6 million and therefore could indeed make the android sales total greater than all iPhone OS sales from the last quarter
Mate if I wanted an insult, I would've asked for one.
I used to run windows with no AV too. Fact is, it only takes 1 virus to bring your system down. Just 1. Also, sometimes a virus can exist for days without being detected. I'd be very concerned about running windows without AV software. Its a recipe for failure.
At least use MS Security Essentials - its free and pretty good.
thats only 3. and yes that is the only 3 versions that should exist in the wild right now...
Apps written for any version will work on all later versions. This isn't an issue.
1.5 and 1.6 are very similar so most apps should target 1.5 if they want to target the most users.
Apps written for 2.0 or 2.1 will not appear on Android Market for older phones. So users of older phones wont even know these apps exist, and there will be no incompatibility issues.
I laugh when people say it will end up like windows - may as well admit it will take over almost 90% of the market...i never had hardware/compatibility issues developing software for windows either.
It exceeded iPhone sales, not iPhone OS, as iPhone OS includes the iPod Touch and iPad. The sales of the iPod Touch are far from insubstantial.
Meanwhile, iPhone sales are down because new ones are due in June, as they have been the last three years. People know this (and if they don't, they ask a geek friend who does), and sales drop. Just watch, they'll skyrocket in June/July, just as they have the last couple years.
Well, how many iPod Touch's get sold these days...?
Either way, you can definitely include the iPad in there because Android sales were ahead by 6 million and I dont think the iPad has hit 6 million yet...
iPhone sales will more than likely skyrocket in June/July - but I fail to see how that has any bearing on this article right now. The fact remains, android DID smash iphone sales last quarter - and is the first new platform to do so since the iphone was launched. This is big news, no matter which side of the fence you're on. Have a look at how quickly Android has lept to the forefront...Apple needs to get this next iphone right. They probably will too...but this game wont be over for a long time...
I agree. if your phone doesn't have GPS for example, why would you want to run an app that relies on it? either the user needs a new phone or just dont use the app.
the developer can check for it in advance and disable certain features anyway. this is a different issue to programming for API levels.
If you have a phone running android 1.5, apps made for later versions wont show up on android market - meaning you wont even know they exist...so there is never any incompatibility issue.
Except I don't think it is that simple. Just because there are that many android devices out there, does not mean they are all one market. From my understanding, they are essentially multiple versions of the hardware and software out there and each one must be effectively tailored to fit one particular model. You do not program for Android OS, but rather for the Droid or the G1 phones with whatever version of the Android OS they are running. Different screen sizes, phone features, OS versions, and controlling companies effectively make it impossible to make on app that could go everywhere. There may be more total Android OS phones out there but at any given time you can only develop software for one small selection of them.
WRONG. You program for the "API level" - which at the moment means either Android 1.5, 1.6 or 2.1. 1.5 and 1.6 are very similar, so lets simplify it and say that you'll program for 1.5, or if your app requires newer features then use 2.0.
If you need newer android features, then your app isn't interesting to phones with an older version - so no problem there. If you dont need newer features, then target Android 1.5 and then all current androids can run your app without any problem.
The UI is designed to scale/stretch around any different screen size. If it looks wrong on different size screens, then it is the app developer's fault for hard-coding specifically for one size. Compare the development of windows GUI's to toolkits like Qt and GTK which use auto-sizing features.
So next time someone complains about the million different versions of Android out there - for a developer, there are only 2. One for the 1st generation of android phones, and one for the newer ones. Pretty soon the older ones will be superceded or upgraded anyway.
No virus issues yet (that I know of).
Crashes... most certainly. Several a day, but thankfully not system-wide.
Bugs aplenty spread across apps.
Feels a lot like the early days of Windows, actually.
Time to "unroot" your phone I think.
If your apps are crashing every day, use different apps. The rating system is there to be used...use it.
would you rather Google implemented Android Market the Apple way? it'd certainly improve the quality of the apps...but at the cost of your (and developer's) freedom...you cant have it both ways. the rating system should suffice for most of us...
The leak was last month. Sales have fallen off since Q4 2009...well before the leak started. Face it, the iPhone has fallen behind it's competitors.
no no that cant be true. it just cant be. here - drink some of this...
java is slow now? thats a new one.
The CPUs used in android phones have hardware acceleration for java. The apps themselves are tiny and they use barely any memory. Java may have been slow a few years ago, and some java apps you may have used might be badly written, but I think you need to adjust your prejudices. In any case, Android itself isn't written in java, and any java calls into the API will run native code. I doubt this has much impact (if any) on the performance of the OS. Android 2.2 will feature a JIT which will make it even faster, so maybe we need to revisit in a few weeks and see how slow this java thing is again...
I think you should've said "perceived" shortcomings because you didn't mention any area where android needs to catch up. It does everything the iphone does + more. It is now the iphone that needs to catch up - and I agree the 4G will do that. but with several top-brand manufacturers making quality android phones now, apple will need to bring something really special in order to not be overtaken again in 6 months time...
this may well be true, but HTC will be first to the party with the Evo 4G - to be released the day before the iPhone 4G.
the new iphone will create a lot of hype as usual, but then that will die down and things will return to normal - whatever that is...
the best thing about the new iphone is that the older ones will be upgraded to the new OS.
If the customers love it then it will continue.
Google's motivation is to get the web onto more devices. More people on the web means more people viewing their ads and using their services.
I'd say it is very profitable in the sense that it is already achieving this goal.
MOST new android phones now run Android 2.1 (all of HTC & motorola's latest offerings for example).
Either way, most apps are still designed for 1.5 even if some are targeting 2.0+. Those that are built for a later version wont show on Android Market if you use an older phone so its not like you'll be trying to download apps that wont run. I had no problems with apps on my HTC Magic (1.6).
This article is about android sales over the past quarter - I would suggest a large percentage of those android phones are indeed running 2.1.
Also why do you think Apple is bigger than flash? Right now flash has wider marketshare than Apple. A lot of the web relies on flash. Will everyone rewrite the web just for the iphone? no. If that were true it would've happened by now.
When websites dont work on the iPad, will people blame the website or the iPad? Time will tell.
whoa, i must've overslept...when did that happen?
Count yourself lucky.
Even without using Windows much (maybe once a fortnight?), I've averaged about 1 virus/malware every 1-2 years in the past.
I've changed AV providers over this sort of thing. But what choice do you have? Use an AV solution that is worse than half the viruses themselves, or choose a "pretty good" solution and carry some risk. Fortunately MS's own Security Essentials rates pretty well these days AND it keeps out of my way AND its free. If you ask me, it's years too late but at least it's there.
But Linux can run AV programs (Avira, Symantec)
fixed that for you. my earlier comment was slightly "tongue in cheek". :)
We should note that Paul here has both a vested interest in dogging on the ipad and a long history of making hyperbolic statements about how the iPad can't or won't succeed.
Also, the original graph clearly showed the growth rate changing, a flow variable, not the number of units, the stock. If the growth rate drops off and is replaced by growth in iPads, how in the world is that not a takeover? What manufacturer will net into a market where the rate of growth is much less than it was even 6 months ago.
(emphasis mine) because it isn't. A takeover means the iPad would be outselling netbooks....and it isn't...not even close. What it is is the iPad has taken a small bite from the netbook market. A very small bite.
To put it in perspective, Android is gaining on the iPhone/iPad marketshare a LOT faster than these figures...so at what point do we call that a takeover? the same applies here. I'd say netbooks are still very popular and the iPad still has a long way to go.
I see. So how's this more advanced and capable security model working for you?