> Oh. I understand now. Microsoft, as a company, is a failure.
Exactly. Luck gave them a monopoly on DOS, they were clever and ruthless enough to keep that going through the transition to NT. Office was their other big idea that lead to monopoly #2. But examine their products that they didn't get a monopoly on, none are profitable. Their early success in gaining a monopoly on DOS has twisted their corporate culture such that they don't know how to compete. That is why I call them a failure, because failure is their future unless they can reinvent themselves.
Lets look at that future a bit shall we? Let us start with their present situation.
Assets:
One metric assload of cash. Monopoly rents on Windows & Office
Liabilities:
Zero friends & allies in their industry, only enemies and slaves. Zero prospects for growth at greater than growth in PC sales in a world where PC sales are flat. Zero prospects for innovation, having NEVER innovated in the past and a corporate culture built around NOT innovating so as to prevent accidental damage to their monopolies by changing the rules of the game. Several money losing divisions that can't be eliminated without scaring Wall Street.
Now we look to the future. If there is one certainty, it is that OpenOffice.org is going to destroy the revenue stream from MS Office. Whether Microsoft cuts the price on Office or bundles it into Windows to maintain their monopoly, the revenue stream from Office is going to decline faster than most analysts yet realize. Windows on desktops is probably a safe stream for 3-5 years, then it could be at risk as well. With both monopolies at risk where is the upside when assessing future earnings? Today's stock price is Wall Streets best estimate of what earnings will be in the future. For the past couple of years that estimate from the hardest assed green eyeshades money people (Wall Street investors) has been one consistent verdict: FLAT.
Publicly traded corporations are all about the share price, nothing else matters except dividends and with so many shares in circulation they simply don't have enough revenue now to pay meaningful dividends and revenue isn't going to growing much anymore, and will probably be declining 5 years out. So their future is one of pain. They are way past the size where actual failure is a possibility, yet success and growth is also out of reach so their future is a long drawn out pain until something changes the equation. See IBM in the 80s and 90s.
> I have gotten my first slashdot freak. My life is now complete.
Only one? Mr. Nice Guy! You need to offend a few more people, you aren't doing it right unless you get a dozen or so freaks. My secret to success is saying things about Steve Jobs that aren't adoring (don't have to actually slag him, just imply you aren't drinking the KoolAid) or offend the slashdot hivemind on a political issue. i.e. Don't be a socialist, slag Dean, or now Kerry.
Of course you have to intersperse some more popular tech type comments to keep the karma high enough to retain the +1 posting bonus because not only will the actions above get you freaks they will also get troll/flamebait mods. I have NEVER posted a negative view of anything Apple related without getting modded down. They really don't want to hear it.
> With the 441 system we have added the capability for each user having > their individual sound card as well, so that they can listen to their > own audio.
Can you discuss some of the details on how that part works? I have been thinking along these same lines and audio is where I keep getting stuck. Hanging USB audio devices on the bus is easy enough, even PCI sound cards are easy. How do you keep each head tied to one sound card though? Using ESD it is just an environment variable to set during session startup, but key apps aren't enlightened and go straight for/dev/dsp, which would either come out on head0's sound or hit a permission error. Flash Player is the most important problem child in my list of mandated "must run" apps.
> I am not sure which ethnic groups you are referring to, but what is > the source of your info on this?
Common sense. Stores in "Economically challenged" areas would almost certainly have a higher than average share of "problem customers". Btw, not just rebate scammers, the whole constellation of "problem customers" that the sort of indepth customer tracking Best Buy would be capable of identifying.
How long would it take for the accusations to start flying when some activist insider at BB did a few greps of the database and found customers at some stores were x% more likely to be tagged as problem customers than customers at stores in upscale zipcodes. Even if some stores showed the opposite trend, we all know how statistics can tell whatever story will sell. Then there would be a few press reports, Jesse would show up and either a large check would be written or all hell would break out.
In corporate America today the view is that the appearance of racism is if anything, more dangerous than the real thing. Both cost a buttload, but the appearance can creep up on you unless you really paranoid.
> Listen, we can forgive you for being racist, but not for being dumb.
Nothing of the sort. I'm just pointing out a fact of life. Everyone on this forum should be bright enough to know it isn't race per se that would cause an uneven distribution, it would be a broad range of socioeconomic differences distributed unevenly by zipcode. But we should also all be bright enough, AND HONEST ENOUGH, to know that in 21st Century America that isn't good enough to stop certain professional race baiters from hurling the word "Racist" at you until you "donate" to one of their causes.
> How do you think normal auto/medical/homeowners etc. insurance works? > If you make too many claims, your insurance rate goes way up, or you > might even be deemed uninsurable.
Those industries make large payments to keep certain people from making an issue over the non-random distribution of rate increases and cancellations. The fact they are getting raised and cancelled because they live in high crime areas doesn't matter because they also happen to be black. Remember, most crime is black on black.
> Furthermore, discrimination claims don't work the way that you seem > to think they do. The "disparate impact" if the defendant can't show > a reasonable neutral explanation for the practice which leads to > differing outcomes
Again, in a sane world you are right, too bad we don't live in one of those. The reality is if you have a "disparate impact" you are automatically guilty and Jesse Jackson or one his friends in the Race Hustling business will schedule an appointment where he will explain that unless you write a really large check he will call for a boycott of your "obviously racist business."
For Best Buy it just wouldn't be worth the bother and expense. For the insurance industry it is a question of survival so they just write a check and deduct it as a business expense^H^H^H^H charitable donation.
Sorry if I'm disillusioning a lot of you/.ers, but this is how the world outside college actually works. It is nasty, brutish and nothing at all like how the world 'ought to be.' We might someday make it to Dr. King's world where we are all judged as individuals, but that day isn't today.
> But it's probably not the same 10% who consume 90% of bandwidth and > modem hours, as those who consume 90% of customer service..
Actually the overlap was a lot greater than one would have thought. Yes one would have assumed the newbies would be the major support drain but that wasn't what I saw. A newbie would call for the first month or so then generally get settled down. The hogs were always trying something new and horking their system. And those same bandwidth hogs were also frequently the hardest to collect from.
> The problem is that i'm not going there anymore because the prices are > pretty exorbitant.
They are already damned high in a lot of departments. Forget recorded media unless it is a sale. And lets not even talk about the computer dept. Fascking insane.
Here is a hint for Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. If you are a specialty retailer and can't beat Walmart's prices in your specialty areas, just pull up your stakes and go home because you have conceeded all of the high volume items to them and you will have to jack up the items that Walmart doesn't carry so high it is worth it to buy online.
> The idea is to attract cusotomers. You'll like some better than others, > but it's better than having none.
Depends. I have worked retail in several genres. Take the ISP game, 10% of your customers can often consume 90% of your resources in bandwidth, modem hours, customer service, etc. If you can successfully migrate one of them to your competitor without turning them into a rabid enemy who will badmouth you to all and sundry it is generally a win.
In other retail environments it isn't quite that bad, but there again you always seem to have that 1% that eats you alive if you allow them to. When one of those pests have you tied up and you can't give enough attention to a real customer and lose that sale it is easy to get the notion that discouraging the pest from returning is a profitable idea.
> Some people buy the service contract, then intentionally fry their video > card every few years to get a newer one.
That's ok. Those are the only people who win with extended warranties. Most people have figured that out and now there are only two groups who buy them. Idiots and scammers. What we have here is evolution in action, money flowing from idiots to the overly clever but morally challenged with a big rakeoff by Best Buy.
Remember that Mother Nature is a bitch and doesn't favor the Just, only the Strong/Smart. And in modern amoral America Right and Wrong don't exist anymore, just shades of grey. Is it any wonder so many see nothing wrong with being one of the winners even if they know it is "Wrong"?
> There'd be nothing illegal about programming the store computer to > detect.......It's only illegal descrimination when you're > manipulating prices or offers based on the so called "protected > classes" mentioned in the laws.
Nice idea, and in a sane world it would work. Here on Planet Earth it wouldn't. Do I really have to spell this one out and get modded flamebait or troll for my efforts? I guess since you wrote that you probably are that green... so what the hell, it is only karma.
The problem is a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing. Certain stores in certain neighborhoods would have more of a problem with this sort of thing than those in other areas. And to be totally blunt, certain ethnic groups would be more of a problem than others. So if it were done purely on the basis of who is abusing the system it would LOOK racist and they would end up paying Jesse Jackson a couple of million to STFU.
The only way to avoid that would be to code each customer by race/gender/etc and carefully set quotas for each 'protected class'. But how long could they keep secret the fact they are 'racially profiling' their customers? Again, there goes a million or so to Jackson & the other professional Race Baiters.
Cheaper to just take it in the shorts once instead of twice.
> Congratulations - you've identified a problem that doesn't exist, and > proposed a solution that won't work.
Only if you think people joking about whether Sarge or Duke Nukem Forever if going to ship first isn't a problem. And I contend that the root of the problem is the package count. I'm not a Debian regular, but I check out some of the digests, etc. Unmaintained and poorly maintained packages are a constant drag on the project and the best way to solve that problem is to reduce the package count to match the available developer resources.
> Look, CD-based distribution is a thing of the past, Debian is an > Internet-based distribution.
Look, I have three megabit DSL at home and a T-1 at work and I know which method I'd prefer to install from. I don't know what sort of connectivity you are are sitting on, but I can assure you that you are an exception. For large installs you have a point though, a local repo is a good thing.
But you are missing the main point I was trying to make. The best way to fix the unconstrained growth pattern that has marked Debian's history is to impose a firm limit. Saying a component can't exceed 500MB wouldn't work. Someone would always be able to say package foo is SO important an exception needs to be made. Saying it must fit on a CD-ROM is different, go one sector over 350,000 and it doesn't fit so something MUST be removed. It was that finite capacity property of the CD-ROM I was proposing be used as a hammer to enforce discipline.
> Neither Mozilla nor OOo are part of Gnome; much less the core of Gnome.
Run ldd against them. Both are linked out the wazoo to gtk and assorted gnome libs and no kde/qt libs, which is why I was suggesting they go into the GNOME collection. Because when those libs make a major rev moz and oo.o will have to be tested against them and possibly rebuilt.
> I have no idea why anyone would go with an Mandrake, or RedHat, or > anything not based on Debian's package management.
Because they have used a modern rpm based distro instead of still complaining about problems that existed, but were fixed, back in the 1990's.
> recently installed Xchat 2.0.10 on a Mandrake 9. At first./configure, > Xchat 2.0.10 notified me that it needs gtk+ >= 2.0.3. So I went to the > Mandrake 9 CD to see which gtk+ was on the system. It was labeled 2.0.0. > I pulled gtk+ 2.0.4 from gtk.org and installed it. When I ran the >./configure for Xchat it promptly told me that, while pkg-config > reported gtk+ 2.0.4, libs for gtk+ 2.0.6 were found. As I scanned > through/usr/lib, sure enough, there were gtk+ 2.0.6 libs lying around.
Afraid that was your mistake. Here is what went wrong.
The original Mandrake install had gtk 2.0.0 and at some point was upgraded to 2.0.6, probably by an errata fix. However gtk-devel was probably not installed. You made a mistake by installing a newer gtk from source instead of using the package system. You would have borked a Debian system's package management system just as badly by installing a homebuilt version.
The correct solution would have been to have obtained or built an rpm for xchat, installed that and let the system fill in the dependencies.
> I have not seen that the.rpm binary package system is adequately > organized in an easily accessible, standardized database which makes > it easy for users to install packages.
Again, you haven't actually bothered to learn about the modern RPM based world. Take a White Box Linux install for example, since I happen to be able to speak to that case best, it is as easy to install new packages and get updates as Debian. If I wanted XChat installed I'd just say "up2date xchat" and that would be that. Adding 3rd party repos is as easy as adding one line to/etc/sysconfig/rhn/sources, and they can be indexed as either yum or apt repos and up2date will solve dependencies across them.
Yes the system only works correctly if all of the packages were built for White Box (and due to it being a near perfect clone of RHEL3 any package built for it and 99% of RH9 packages work also) but the same is equally true for Debian.
Oh, and it is almost certain you could have downloaded and installed xchat on that Mandrake box with a single command instead of trying to build it from source. As a general rule, if you want to build everything from source you should be running Gentoo.
> I've heard others elsewhere suggest that there should be a server > distro and a desktop distro in Debian. I like the idea personally.
Sarge is planned to weigh in at about 14 CD-ROMs. Obviously that is too much. Even a server/desktop split won't solve that problem. But instead of just being a "Negative Nancy" I'll propose something that might work.
Break up Debian into several components, each with it's own manager and release schedule, except all would obviously have to co-operate with the core LGX component.
Debian LGX (Linux/GNU/X)
The Linux kernel, key system utils, etc
The GNU tools, compiler, glibc and everything needed to have a command line environment.
X11 and the fundementals, xlib, xterm, twm, etc.
Debian Server
All of the server components, kept in one large collection because many depend on each other.
Debian GNOME
Just what the name implies, gmome & gtk libraries, GNOME and key GNOME apps.
GNOME, gdm, Nautilus, Mozilla, OO.o
Debian KDE
Just KDE & it's key apps.
Debian Utilities
Important utilities that do not fit into one of the other catagories.
Debian Extras
Everything that didn't go anywhere else. It would be understood that CD distributions would be free to edit down the selection from here in the interest of space. Most probably wouldn't carry any from here, best to let apt-get pick up the few each machine needs.
The key idea would be to make the promise that, except for Extras, none of these would exceed one 700MB CD-ROM image for both i386 binaries AND source. This sort of space limitation would force some very hard choices, pruning the packageset to just the essentials. It would also give maintainers the weapon they need when the whinging starts about package foo not making the cut. They just ask the complainers which OTHER package(s) should get cut to make room for their favorite. Then when those packages' fans come out of the woodwork the maintainer can leave the ensuing flamewar and get back to work for a few weeks while it sorts itself out.
However, while Extras itself wouldn't have a size limit the whole of Debian should be constrained to what can be held on a single layer DVD-ROM. Any OS that won't fit on a DVD is too fscking big and we end up with the Sarge problem again.
> Debian is something different from most other Linux distributions > - it is the absolute high ground,
Oh really now. Do you know how many non-free packages RedHat is currently shipping in their ENTERPRISE distribution? Since you obviously don't know the answer, I'll fill you in; exactly the same number as Debian is shipping. Ok, how many non-free packages are in Fedora then. Another ZERO, so much for your line of argument.
Of course there are some differences. RHEL (or a rebuild like my own WhiteBox or Tao and cAos) is new enough it will actually install on modern hardware. Meanwhile Fedora is at least as bleeding edge as Sid.
Not saying Debian isn't a good distro. I currently have a machine installed with Woody and find it very stable. But lets get a grip on the FanBoy hyberbole.
> I think the key here, and the point the parent poster was trying to > make is that "it's not our country".
So? We fight for our vital national interests. We fought Saddam once over the oilfields of Kuwait and once to drain the swamp in the Middle East. We would and should defend Taiwan to keep the semiconductor fabs in friendly hands, to in other words,ensure the free flow of DRAM at market prices.
Defending Free Societies is also protecting a vital national interest. If China were to invade, Taiwain would ask for our help and we should stand with them on pure moral principle. The Arsonal of Democracy doesn't just exist to defend Great Britain and France from German adventurism.
> That is their country and their internal dispute, and no other country > has the right to intervene.
Bull. Go read your history book again. Here is one example for free; The main reason for Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation was to keep the French from extending diplomatic recognition to the CSA, which would of course meant the end to the naval blocade of CSA ports.
> That's why there are these things called 'borders'.
No, borders seperate soverign powers. Relations between soverign powers is, has always been and probably always be governed by the rule of the jungle. Because by definition a soverign power isn't answerable to anyone for their actions except the community of other soverign nations. Right is usually defined by what one has the Might to get away with.
Fortunately the US has been pretty enlightened in it's uses of naked force compared to most of the other soverign states that have found themselves ascendent. Probably because we had good 'parenting' by the British. Despite the unpleasantness with King George and our forefathers, the British weren't half bad defacto rulers of the world in their day.
Hmmm. Yup, now I can see why Cheney said it, it DOES feel good to just tell a waste of protoplasm off. I wonder what would happen if the whole Republican Party did it at once, no more being conservative and preserving the tradition of nicety after all these years of you morons calling us fascists and nazis for daring to disagree.
> It seems like you miss living in a strict totalitarian dictatorship,
Huh? Just because I don't want to see flagrant politics infect one of the last places it has yet to reach, the moviehouse? Sorry, but if four major television news organizations, all five major print publishing houses and almost every college campus isn't enough to push liberalism down our throats; do you really think the reason you guys have failed to make a socialist dystopia out of America is because the theaters are still showing mindless entertainment instead of propaganda?
> CIPA is the Child Internet Pornography Act. Because we all know > cencorship of child porn is wrong wrong wrong.
Please strive for accuracy. It is the Child Internet Protection Act and yes it is a terrible idea because like most such laws, it is misnamed. It is the typical "we must do it for the children" acam. Our library was probably 'protecting' the children before Al Gore invented the Internet. When the first lab went in in '96 we installed Cyber Patrol on half of them. Children were not allowed into the lab at all until parents selected in writing from three choices:
1. No access, i.e. leave them not allowed into the lab at all. Of course the child could still accompany their parent into the lab.
2. Filtered access. Meaning they could use the half of the lab that was filtered.
3. Unfiltered access. Very popular choice for the older kids. Yes, even deep in the heart of dixie, buckle of the bible belt, a fair number of parents trusted their children. Perhaps not always wisely, but it was their choice and as public servants we felt an obligation to let parents do the parenting.
Then great white father in Washington decreed He knew the best policy. Filter all children, screw the decision of the parent. And while you are installing filters, just put them on everyone. After all, the best way to protect the Children is by treating the adults like children. Child pornography, by the way, had nothing at all to do with the bill. It mandates blocking all porn, and most of the filters block a hell of a lot more than what thee and me would probably call 'porn.'
As for my.sig, the only way to get Great White Father to let go of the control is to get his money out of our library. That means kill Al Gore's pet project, the Schools and Libraries Corp and the increased Universal Service Tax that funds it.
Actually yes. But in 2000 it wasn't really a committed vote, much like my votes for Dole and Bush the Elder. More a NO to Gore and the ecofreaks he would have installed throughout the government. This time it is going to be a no hesitation YES for Mr. Bush. And I have already backed it up with cash once and plan to give more, both to Bush Cheney 2004 and the Party. And if we can get a viable Senate candidate (Louisiana politics can be 'interesting'.) this season I'll toss money their way also. Playing politics with national security seriously pisses me off in case I haven't made it plain yet.
Rooting for Usama and Saddam to score points in an election is beyond the pale and it is now clear that the fastest way to win this war the Islamists have declared on us is to end the Democratic party as we have known it. Usama and his scraggly band of misfits wouldn't last ten minutes against an America that was firmly united against them. They know their only hope of victory is a Vietnam style political win in Washington; Deny them that hope and their movement collapses. The whole kill people and blow up shit strategy in Iraq is all about giving their Democratic allies (enemy of my enemy sort of ally, not actually friends) in DC the ammo they need to get us to pull out. So EACH AND EVERY CASUALTY WE HAVE SUFFERED IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS can be fairly laid at John Kerry and Terry McCaulif's feet.
Even Klingons know not to fight in a burning house, shame Dean, Kerry and that father of all idiots Moore can't figure that one out.
> That, and if the Illinois Nazi's want to march through a Jewish > neighborhood.
Sort of a difference here. The Nazis wanted to use a public street to walk down. Kinda hard to refuse that. But the 1st Amendment only give you the right to say what you want. It does not force theatres to pay you for it. Considering Moore's track record, double his previous take is still a bomb. Any theater that can't show this turkey one week to the ABB crowd and the quicky dump it for a more profitable film is losing money for political reasons. They should have to count the difference as a political contribution to the Democratic Party.
> How does the Islamic world "discourage its more extreme elements".
It could condemn terrorism in no uncertain terms. Declare Usama a heretic. It could stop preaching hate, bigotry and "Death to America" in Islamic schools. Generally all those things Christians, Jews and Buddhists would do if a bunch of nutjobs started going around blowing up women & children in the name of their religion.
> And yet we should outlaw Islam?
Reread what I wrote. I said I'm CLOSE to endorsing such an extreme solution. As things stand it is clear that to a large portion of the Islamic world it is already a mindset of "them or us." I think it would be helpful (to both us AND them) if we speak the unspeakable now and make it perfectly clear where such a suicidal line of 'thought' leads them. They are outgunned by insane odds in any military confrontation BEFORE we consider using the final option to raze the whole middle east with Atomic Hellfire. The plain fact we are not yet even seriously discussing a purely military solution speaks volumes about the patience of the Western Civilization.
Yes, I have followed with some interest Mr. Hitchens awakening. He isn't all the way there yet but I think he will end up in the reformed socialists camp with Horowitz.[sp]
The reaction of the left to 9/11 is what seems to have catylized the reaction for him. In the end I think he decided he would like to see the West survive Islam's assault and he observed that among his leftist friends just the opposite view held.
Slashdot Mirror
> Oh. I understand now. Microsoft, as a company, is a failure.
Exactly. Luck gave them a monopoly on DOS, they were clever and ruthless enough to keep that going through the transition to NT. Office was their other big idea that lead to monopoly #2. But examine their products that they didn't get a monopoly on, none are profitable. Their early success in gaining a monopoly on DOS has twisted their corporate culture such that they don't know how to compete. That is why I call them a failure, because failure is their future unless they can reinvent themselves.
Lets look at that future a bit shall we? Let us start with their present situation.
Assets:
One metric assload of cash.
Monopoly rents on Windows & Office
Liabilities:
Zero friends & allies in their industry, only enemies and slaves.
Zero prospects for growth at greater than growth in PC sales in a world where PC sales are flat.
Zero prospects for innovation, having NEVER innovated in the past and a corporate culture built around NOT innovating so as to prevent accidental damage to their monopolies by changing the rules of the game.
Several money losing divisions that can't be eliminated without scaring Wall Street.
Now we look to the future. If there is one certainty, it is that OpenOffice.org is going to destroy the revenue stream from MS Office. Whether Microsoft cuts the price on Office or bundles it into Windows to maintain their monopoly, the revenue stream from Office is going to decline faster than most analysts yet realize. Windows on desktops is probably a safe stream for 3-5 years, then it could be at risk as well. With both monopolies at risk where is the upside when assessing future earnings? Today's stock price is Wall Streets best estimate of what earnings will be in the future. For the past couple of years that estimate from the hardest assed green eyeshades money people (Wall Street investors) has been one consistent verdict: FLAT.
Publicly traded corporations are all about the share price, nothing else matters except dividends and with so many shares in circulation they simply don't have enough revenue now to pay meaningful dividends and revenue isn't going to growing much anymore, and will probably be declining 5 years out. So their future is one of pain. They are way past the size where actual failure is a possibility, yet success and growth is also out of reach so their future is a long drawn out pain until something changes the equation. See IBM in the 80s and 90s.
> Don't OLEDs still have a shorter lifespan than standard LCDs?
Who cares, it will outlast the Li-Ion battery that is non-replaceable. It is a piece of disposable consumer electronics.
> I have gotten my first slashdot freak. My life is now complete.
Only one? Mr. Nice Guy! You need to offend a few more people, you aren't doing it right unless you get a dozen or so freaks. My secret to success is saying things about Steve Jobs that aren't adoring (don't have to actually slag him, just imply you aren't drinking the KoolAid) or offend the slashdot hivemind on a political issue. i.e. Don't be a socialist, slag Dean, or now Kerry.
Of course you have to intersperse some more popular tech type comments to keep the karma high enough to retain the +1 posting bonus because not only will the actions above get you freaks they will also get troll/flamebait mods. I have NEVER posted a negative view of anything Apple related without getting modded down. They really don't want to hear it.
> With the 441 system we have added the capability for each user having
/dev/dsp, which would either come out on head0's sound or hit a permission error. Flash Player is the most important problem child in my list of mandated "must run" apps.
> their individual sound card as well, so that they can listen to their
> own audio.
Can you discuss some of the details on how that part works? I have been thinking along these same lines and audio is where I keep getting stuck. Hanging USB audio devices on the bus is easy enough, even PCI sound cards are easy. How do you keep each head tied to one sound card though? Using ESD it is just an environment variable to set during session startup, but key apps aren't enlightened and go straight for
> I am not sure which ethnic groups you are referring to, but what is
> the source of your info on this?
Common sense. Stores in "Economically challenged" areas would almost certainly have a higher than average share of "problem customers". Btw, not just rebate scammers, the whole constellation of "problem customers" that the sort of indepth customer tracking Best Buy would be capable of identifying.
How long would it take for the accusations to start flying when some activist insider at BB did a few greps of the database and found customers at some stores were x% more likely to be tagged as problem customers than customers at stores in upscale zipcodes. Even if some stores showed the opposite trend, we all know how statistics can tell whatever story will sell. Then there would be a few press reports, Jesse would show up and either a large check would be written or all hell would break out.
In corporate America today the view is that the appearance of racism is if anything, more dangerous than the real thing. Both cost a buttload, but the appearance can creep up on you unless you really paranoid.
> Listen, we can forgive you for being racist, but not for being dumb.
/.ers, but this is how the world outside college actually works. It is nasty, brutish and nothing at all like how the world 'ought to be.' We might someday make it to Dr. King's world where we are all judged as individuals, but that day isn't today.
Nothing of the sort. I'm just pointing out a fact of life. Everyone on this forum should be bright enough to know it isn't race per se that would cause an uneven distribution, it would be a broad range of socioeconomic differences distributed unevenly by zipcode. But we should also all be bright enough, AND HONEST ENOUGH, to know that in 21st Century America that isn't good enough to stop certain professional race baiters from hurling the word "Racist" at you until you "donate" to one of their causes.
> How do you think normal auto/medical/homeowners etc. insurance works?
> If you make too many claims, your insurance rate goes way up, or you
> might even be deemed uninsurable.
Those industries make large payments to keep certain people from making an issue over the non-random distribution of rate increases and cancellations. The fact they are getting raised and cancelled because they live in high crime areas doesn't matter because they also happen to be black. Remember, most crime is black on black.
> Furthermore, discrimination claims don't work the way that you seem
> to think they do. The "disparate impact" if the defendant can't show
> a reasonable neutral explanation for the practice which leads to
> differing outcomes
Again, in a sane world you are right, too bad we don't live in one of those. The reality is if you have a "disparate impact" you are automatically guilty and Jesse Jackson or one his friends in the Race Hustling business will schedule an appointment where he will explain that unless you write a really large check he will call for a boycott of your "obviously racist business."
For Best Buy it just wouldn't be worth the bother and expense. For the insurance industry it is a question of survival so they just write a check and deduct it as a business expense^H^H^H^H charitable donation.
Sorry if I'm disillusioning a lot of you
> But it's probably not the same 10% who consume 90% of bandwidth and
> modem hours, as those who consume 90% of customer service..
Actually the overlap was a lot greater than one would have thought. Yes one would have assumed the newbies would be the major support drain but that wasn't what I saw. A newbie would call for the first month or so then generally get settled down. The hogs were always trying something new and horking their system. And those same bandwidth hogs were also frequently the hardest to collect from.
> The problem is that i'm not going there anymore because the prices are
> pretty exorbitant.
They are already damned high in a lot of departments. Forget recorded media unless it is a sale. And lets not even talk about the computer dept. Fascking insane.
Here is a hint for Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. If you are a specialty retailer and can't beat Walmart's prices in your specialty areas, just pull up your stakes and go home because you have conceeded all of the high volume items to them and you will have to jack up the items that Walmart doesn't carry so high it is worth it to buy online.
> The idea is to attract cusotomers. You'll like some better than others,
> but it's better than having none.
Depends. I have worked retail in several genres. Take the ISP game, 10% of your customers can often consume 90% of your resources in bandwidth, modem hours, customer service, etc. If you can successfully migrate one of them to your competitor without turning them into a rabid enemy who will badmouth you to all and sundry it is generally a win.
In other retail environments it isn't quite that bad, but there again you always seem to have that 1% that eats you alive if you allow them to. When one of those pests have you tied up and you can't give enough attention to a real customer and lose that sale it is easy to get the notion that discouraging the pest from returning is a profitable idea.
> Some people buy the service contract, then intentionally fry their video
> card every few years to get a newer one.
That's ok. Those are the only people who win with extended warranties. Most people have figured that out and now there are only two groups who buy them. Idiots and scammers. What we have here is evolution in action, money flowing from idiots to the overly clever but morally challenged with a big rakeoff by Best Buy.
Remember that Mother Nature is a bitch and doesn't favor the Just, only the Strong/Smart. And in modern amoral America Right and Wrong don't exist anymore, just shades of grey. Is it any wonder so many see nothing wrong with being one of the winners even if they know it is "Wrong"?
> There'd be nothing illegal about programming the store computer to ...It's only illegal descrimination when you're
> detect....
> manipulating prices or offers based on the so called "protected
> classes" mentioned in the laws.
Nice idea, and in a sane world it would work. Here on Planet Earth it wouldn't. Do I really have to spell this one out and get modded flamebait or troll for my efforts? I guess since you wrote that you probably are that green... so what the hell, it is only karma.
The problem is a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing. Certain stores in certain neighborhoods would have more of a problem with this sort of thing than those in other areas. And to be totally blunt, certain ethnic groups would be more of a problem than others. So if it were done purely on the basis of who is abusing the system it would LOOK racist and they would end up paying Jesse Jackson a couple of million to STFU.
The only way to avoid that would be to code each customer by race/gender/etc and carefully set quotas for each 'protected class'. But how long could they keep secret the fact they are 'racially profiling' their customers? Again, there goes a million or so to Jackson & the other professional Race Baiters.
Cheaper to just take it in the shorts once instead of twice.
> Congratulations - you've identified a problem that doesn't exist, and
> proposed a solution that won't work.
Only if you think people joking about whether Sarge or Duke Nukem Forever if going to ship first isn't a problem. And I contend that the root of the problem is the package count. I'm not a Debian regular, but I check out some of the digests, etc. Unmaintained and poorly maintained packages are a constant drag on the project and the best way to solve that problem is to reduce the package count to match the available developer resources.
> Look, CD-based distribution is a thing of the past, Debian is an
> Internet-based distribution.
Look, I have three megabit DSL at home and a T-1 at work and I know which method I'd prefer to install from. I don't know what sort of connectivity you are are sitting on, but I can assure you that you are an exception. For large installs you have a point though, a local repo is a good thing.
But you are missing the main point I was trying to make. The best way to fix the unconstrained growth pattern that has marked Debian's history is to impose a firm limit. Saying a component can't exceed 500MB wouldn't work. Someone would always be able to say package foo is SO important an exception needs to be made. Saying it must fit on a CD-ROM is different, go one sector over 350,000 and it doesn't fit so something MUST be removed. It was that finite capacity property of the CD-ROM I was proposing be used as a hammer to enforce discipline.
> Neither Mozilla nor OOo are part of Gnome; much less the core of Gnome.
Run ldd against them. Both are linked out the wazoo to gtk and assorted gnome libs and no kde/qt libs, which is why I was suggesting they go into the GNOME collection. Because when those libs make a major rev moz and oo.o will have to be tested against them and possibly rebuilt.
> I have no idea why anyone would go with an Mandrake, or RedHat, or
./configure, ./configure for Xchat it promptly told me that, while pkg-config /usr/lib, sure enough, there were gtk+ 2.0.6 libs lying around.
.rpm binary package system is adequately
/etc/sysconfig/rhn/sources, and they can be indexed as either yum or apt repos and up2date will solve dependencies across them.
> anything not based on Debian's package management.
Because they have used a modern rpm based distro instead of still complaining about problems that existed, but were fixed, back in the 1990's.
> recently installed Xchat 2.0.10 on a Mandrake 9. At first
> Xchat 2.0.10 notified me that it needs gtk+ >= 2.0.3. So I went to the
> Mandrake 9 CD to see which gtk+ was on the system. It was labeled 2.0.0.
> I pulled gtk+ 2.0.4 from gtk.org and installed it. When I ran the
>
> reported gtk+ 2.0.4, libs for gtk+ 2.0.6 were found. As I scanned
> through
Afraid that was your mistake. Here is what went wrong.
The original Mandrake install had gtk 2.0.0 and at some point was upgraded to 2.0.6, probably by an errata fix. However gtk-devel was probably not installed. You made a mistake by installing a newer gtk from source instead of using the package system. You would have borked a Debian system's package management system just as badly by installing a homebuilt version.
The correct solution would have been to have obtained or built an rpm for xchat, installed that and let the system fill in the dependencies.
> I have not seen that the
> organized in an easily accessible, standardized database which makes
> it easy for users to install packages.
Again, you haven't actually bothered to learn about the modern RPM based world. Take a White Box Linux install for example, since I happen to be able to speak to that case best, it is as easy to install new packages and get updates as Debian. If I wanted XChat installed I'd just say "up2date xchat" and that would be that. Adding 3rd party repos is as easy as adding one line to
Yes the system only works correctly if all of the packages were built for White Box (and due to it being a near perfect clone of RHEL3 any package built for it and 99% of RH9 packages work also) but the same is equally true for Debian.
Oh, and it is almost certain you could have downloaded and installed xchat on that Mandrake box with a single command instead of trying to build it from source. As a general rule, if you want to build everything from source you should be running Gentoo.
> I've heard others elsewhere suggest that there should be a server
> distro and a desktop distro in Debian. I like the idea personally.
Sarge is planned to weigh in at about 14 CD-ROMs. Obviously that is too much. Even a server/desktop split won't solve that problem. But instead of just being a "Negative Nancy" I'll propose something that might work.
Break up Debian into several components, each with it's own manager and release schedule, except all would obviously have to co-operate with the core LGX component.
Debian LGX (Linux/GNU/X)
The Linux kernel, key system utils, etc
The GNU tools, compiler, glibc and everything needed to have a command line environment.
X11 and the fundementals, xlib, xterm, twm, etc.
Debian Server
All of the server components, kept in one large collection because many depend on each other.
Debian GNOME
Just what the name implies, gmome & gtk libraries, GNOME and key GNOME apps.
GNOME, gdm, Nautilus, Mozilla, OO.o
Debian KDE
Just KDE & it's key apps.
Debian Utilities
Important utilities that do not fit into one of the other catagories.
Debian Extras
Everything that didn't go anywhere else. It would be understood that CD distributions would be free to edit down the selection from here in the interest of space. Most probably wouldn't carry any from here, best to let apt-get pick up the few each machine needs.
The key idea would be to make the promise that, except for Extras, none of these would exceed one 700MB CD-ROM image for both i386 binaries AND source. This sort of space limitation would force some very hard choices, pruning the packageset to just the essentials. It would also give maintainers the weapon they need when the whinging starts about package foo not making the cut. They just ask the complainers which OTHER package(s) should get cut to make room for their favorite. Then when those packages' fans come out of the woodwork the maintainer can leave the ensuing flamewar and get back to work for a few weeks while it sorts itself out.
However, while Extras itself wouldn't have a size limit the whole of Debian should be constrained to what can be held on a single layer DVD-ROM. Any OS that won't fit on a DVD is too fscking big and we end up with the Sarge problem again.
> Debian is something different from most other Linux distributions
> - it is the absolute high ground,
Oh really now. Do you know how many non-free packages RedHat is currently shipping in their ENTERPRISE distribution? Since you obviously don't know the answer, I'll fill you in; exactly the same number as Debian is shipping. Ok, how many non-free packages are in Fedora then. Another ZERO, so much for your line of argument.
Of course there are some differences. RHEL (or a rebuild like my own WhiteBox or Tao and cAos) is new enough it will actually install on modern hardware. Meanwhile Fedora is at least as bleeding edge as Sid.
Not saying Debian isn't a good distro. I currently have a machine installed with Woody and find it very stable. But lets get a grip on the FanBoy hyberbole.
> I think the key here, and the point the parent poster was trying to
,ensure the free flow of DRAM at market prices.
> make is that "it's not our country".
So? We fight for our vital national interests. We fought Saddam once over the oilfields of Kuwait and once to drain the swamp in the Middle East. We would and should defend Taiwan to keep the semiconductor fabs in friendly hands, to in other words
Defending Free Societies is also protecting a vital national interest. If China were to invade, Taiwain would ask for our help and we should stand with them on pure moral principle. The Arsonal of Democracy doesn't just exist to defend Great Britain and France from German adventurism.
> That is their country and their internal dispute, and no other country
> has the right to intervene.
Bull. Go read your history book again. Here is one example for free; The main reason for Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation was to keep the French from extending diplomatic recognition to the CSA, which would of course meant the end to the naval blocade of CSA ports.
> That's why there are these things called 'borders'.
No, borders seperate soverign powers. Relations between soverign powers is, has always been and probably always be governed by the rule of the jungle. Because by definition a soverign power isn't answerable to anyone for their actions except the community of other soverign nations. Right is usually defined by what one has the Might to get away with.
Fortunately the US has been pretty enlightened in it's uses of naked force compared to most of the other soverign states that have found themselves ascendent. Probably because we had good 'parenting' by the British. Despite the unpleasantness with King George and our forefathers, the British weren't half bad defacto rulers of the world in their day.
> Besides the 100% GPL'd Helix Player (which plays Vorbis and Theora),
> the distros will ship a no-cost upgrade the RealPlayer 10 for Linux.
Translation from marketing to english:
Helix is crap but it was the wedge needed to get RedHat and Novell to ship RealPlayer 10.
Seriously, if you want us to quit laughing and pay attention to what you are saying you have to answer the some of the questions we care about.
How do WE (as users and/or developers) benefit from Helix?
Does it allow us to play a single file or stream we can't already play?
Does it provide a better framework to develop in?
If so, is it enough better to justify refactoring the current extensive codebases of gstreamer. mplayer, xine, vlc, etc. into Helix?
> We want to avoid a KDE/GNOME fracturing of the industry.
How is introducing yet another multimedia framework not fracturing the industry vs. joining one of the existing projects such as gstreamer?
Please, if you wish to engage the OS/FS communities you will need to lose the marketing speak, we aren't the typical idiot management types.
Hmmm. Yup, now I can see why Cheney said it, it DOES feel good to just tell a waste of protoplasm off. I wonder what would happen if the whole Republican Party did it at once, no more being conservative and preserving the tradition of nicety after all these years of you morons calling us fascists and nazis for daring to disagree.
> It seems like you miss living in a strict totalitarian dictatorship,
Huh? Just because I don't want to see flagrant politics infect one of the last places it has yet to reach, the moviehouse? Sorry, but if four major television news organizations, all five major print publishing houses and almost every college campus isn't enough to push liberalism down our throats; do you really think the reason you guys have failed to make a socialist dystopia out of America is because the theaters are still showing mindless entertainment instead of propaganda?
Just fuck you and anyone who looks like you.
> CIPA is the Child Internet Pornography Act. Because we all know
.sig, the only way to get Great White Father to let go of the control is to get his money out of our library. That means kill Al Gore's pet project, the Schools and Libraries Corp and the increased Universal Service Tax that funds it.
> cencorship of child porn is wrong wrong wrong.
Please strive for accuracy. It is the Child Internet Protection Act and yes it is a terrible idea because like most such laws, it is misnamed. It is the typical "we must do it for the children" acam. Our library was probably 'protecting' the children before Al Gore invented the Internet. When the first lab went in in '96 we installed Cyber Patrol on half of them. Children were not allowed into the lab at all until parents selected in writing from three choices:
1. No access, i.e. leave them not allowed into the lab at all. Of course the child could still accompany their parent into the lab.
2. Filtered access. Meaning they could use the half of the lab that was filtered.
3. Unfiltered access. Very popular choice for the older kids. Yes, even deep in the heart of dixie, buckle of the bible belt, a fair number of parents trusted their children. Perhaps not always wisely, but it was their choice and as public servants we felt an obligation to let parents do the parenting.
Then great white father in Washington decreed He knew the best policy. Filter all children, screw the decision of the parent. And while you are installing filters, just put them on everyone. After all, the best way to protect the Children is by treating the adults like children. Child pornography, by the way, had nothing at all to do with the bill. It mandates blocking all porn, and most of the filters block a hell of a lot more than what thee and me would probably call 'porn.'
As for my
> wow, so you voted for Bush, right?
Actually yes. But in 2000 it wasn't really a committed vote, much like my votes for Dole and Bush the Elder. More a NO to Gore and the ecofreaks he would have installed throughout the government. This time it is going to be a no hesitation YES for Mr. Bush. And I have already backed it up with cash once and plan to give more, both to Bush Cheney 2004 and the Party. And if we can get a viable Senate candidate (Louisiana politics can be 'interesting'.) this season I'll toss money their way also. Playing politics with national security seriously pisses me off in case I haven't made it plain yet.
Rooting for Usama and Saddam to score points in an election is beyond the pale and it is now clear that the fastest way to win this war the Islamists have declared on us is to end the Democratic party as we have known it. Usama and his scraggly band of misfits wouldn't last ten minutes against an America that was firmly united against them. They know their only hope of victory is a Vietnam style political win in Washington; Deny them that hope and their movement collapses. The whole kill people and blow up shit strategy in Iraq is all about giving their Democratic allies (enemy of my enemy sort of ally, not actually friends) in DC the ammo they need to get us to pull out. So EACH AND EVERY CASUALTY WE HAVE SUFFERED IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS can be fairly laid at John Kerry and Terry McCaulif's feet.
Even Klingons know not to fight in a burning house, shame Dean, Kerry and that father of all idiots Moore can't figure that one out.
> That, and if the Illinois Nazi's want to march through a Jewish
> neighborhood.
Sort of a difference here. The Nazis wanted to use a public street to walk down. Kinda hard to refuse that. But the 1st Amendment only give you the right to say what you want. It does not force theatres to pay you for it. Considering Moore's track record, double his previous take is still a bomb. Any theater that can't show this turkey one week to the ABB crowd and the quicky dump it for a more profitable film is losing money for political reasons. They should have to count the difference as a political contribution to the Democratic Party.
> How does the Islamic world "discourage its more extreme elements".
It could condemn terrorism in no uncertain terms. Declare Usama a heretic. It could stop preaching hate, bigotry and "Death to America" in Islamic schools. Generally all those things Christians, Jews and Buddhists would do if a bunch of nutjobs started going around blowing up women & children in the name of their religion.
> And yet we should outlaw Islam?
Reread what I wrote. I said I'm CLOSE to endorsing such an extreme solution. As things stand it is clear that to a large portion of the Islamic world it is already a mindset of "them or us." I think it would be helpful (to both us AND them) if we speak the unspeakable now and make it perfectly clear where such a suicidal line of 'thought' leads them. They are outgunned by insane odds in any military confrontation BEFORE we consider using the final option to raze the whole middle east with Atomic Hellfire. The plain fact we are not yet even seriously discussing a purely military solution speaks volumes about the patience of the Western Civilization.
Yes, I have followed with some interest Mr. Hitchens awakening. He isn't all the way there yet but I think he will end up in the reformed socialists camp with Horowitz.[sp]
The reaction of the left to 9/11 is what seems to have catylized the reaction for him. In the end I think he decided he would like to see the West survive Islam's assault and he observed that among his leftist friends just the opposite view held.