Of course. If you are saving a file to disk, disk full, write error, write protect, etc are all examples of errors that should be expected and allowances made. Getting a seg fault would be UNexpected and falling back to the apps generic error handler is probably acceptable.
Except of course it wasn't ill fated at all. When the public outcry came along, the allowed the BIOS makers to put in an option to supress it. And they all did. For a time.
Got some Thinkpads a few months ago and guess what? The option is GONE. They win, we lose.
Expect the same tactics again. In the beginning it will be optional but it won't stay that way long.
This will work out exactly like the sat piracy in the BUD (Big Ugly Dish) era. It's now general knowledge that General Instruments was making all of the 'pirate' chips for the Video Cipher hacks, then breaking them again a few months later. The chaos that ensued with having to replace your hacked chips every few months eventually caused all but the most diehard to give up. And I wouldn't be all that suprised to learn DirecTV tried to do the same thing except it got out of hand. No fear though, although the bootleggers got a few years of free signal with only a few forced upgrades, they will eventually close that back down.
Same thing here. M$ doesn't care if numbnut gets Linux going on his X-Box. The hardcore will always suceed at a unrealistic cost in time and money. So long as they discourage joe average end user they win.
Of course the difference here is Sat TV needs a hack that can decode the signals coming down NOW. An X-Box hack only needs to be able to work once. Changes the odds towards the hacks, but does it do enough? How many want to look up their box in ranges of manufacturing dates & serial numbers to see IF their machine is hackable and which mod they need to get. Especially considering those lists will become notorious for inaccuracy.
Amen.... unless they get TOO far ahead in the numbers game. Then start burning off some votes on third party (Libertarian in my case) to keep them from getting enough seats their moralistic and mercantilistic tendencies become too prominent.
Haven't seen too much that would imply intelligence. Raw animal cunning and an undying hunger to enslave the world to her perverted will perhaps, but not much brains. Look how far she got with HillaryCare and tell me again how smart she is.
UNIX is not just an Operating System, it is a culture. If I (in the US) went to France I wouldn't be stupid enough to bitch and moan about not being able to understand all of that "confusing French crap." I know enough to realize a) it isn't confusing to THEM, b) it won't be confusing to ME once I pick up some of their language and way of doing things and c) they probably think my most of my ways are just as odd.
Expecting the citizens of UNIXland to toss out thirty YEARS of tradition, lore, culture and undisputed success (why else are all these philistines wanting in?) to satisfy some ignorant savages who can't be bothered to pick up a fscking "Dummies" book isn't a very realistic expectation.
Re:The one button + mods == three buttons fallacy
on
Flirting With Mac OS X
·
· Score: 2
> Right. And Gimp was never designed for Mac.
Exactly my point; thank you! GIMP is a UNIX program adn needs a real UNIX environment, including the hardware portion of the user experience.
How had would it be for Apple to put in a three button pointer and rig the OS to treat them all as one big button by default? Since it isn't a real 'clicky' button (at least on the TiBook I played with) the normal users wouldn't even have to know it was three, just one big button with some artfully placed grooves. They don't really care, we are supposed to adopt the "Mac Way" like some sort of cult. Screw that.
> > Try moving an OSX filesystem from one > > location to another.
> man ditto
Did. Now go read www.macosxlabs.org where they report that using the switch to copy resources causes unexplainable failures.
It is obvious you are a Mac user who has read up a bit on this "unix thing" that they dropped on you with OSX but you probably don't depend on those subsystems yet. I'm a UNIX user exploring OSX starting from their promise it was "UNIX with a pretty face." It ain't.
And even the graphical part is buggy as hell if you push it hard. I have been rebooting fast and furious after finding new ways to wedge it, almost like Win3.1.
Basically, I like the idea, but judge the current implementation (10.1.x) as beta quality. No, my site won't be buying licenses for 10.2 on the forlorn hope that chasing the upgrade fairy will fix things this quick.
Ya, I saw "Burn CD" also. Try copying something off to a FireWire drive sometime. Can't be done. If it was only designed to copy CDs it should have been CD Burner or CD Copy.
And Mac folk rag us about "cp" being cryptic? There is an icon labeled in plain english "Disk Copy" that won't actually copy a disk. Bah!
(And there isn't really a need to dredge up the old drag to trash to eject golden oldie is there? At least on OSX the trashcan icon does switch to an eject symbol.)
I'll call distributions whatever the publishers of said distributions name them. Until you convince Redhat to rename their product "Redhat GNU/Linux" it would be incorrect for anyone else to refer to it that way.
Of course were RH to do such a thing I'd use their preferred name when formally referring to the product. And dump their stock on the grounds they had lost their zarking minds.
Nope. I remember that first Yggdrasil CD and it did call it self LGX. But I still have their last release (Fall 95) and it had become "Plug and Play Linux" Just picking historical nits.:)
> Distros such as Redhat, Debian etc. are modified > versions of the GNU system with Linux as the > kernel
No they aren't. The "GNU System" won't exist until GNU builds a coherent SYSTEM from their tools (and adds in X, Perl, etc) and the HURD. THAT will be the GNU System, and if Redhat took it and stuck Linus's kernel under it, your statement would be true. As it stands, I am currently running a Redhat system with Linux as it's kernel, a bunch of GNU tools (many of which are maintained by RedHat), X, Perl, etc. The total system integration is a big part of the package, at least as big as any of the individual components.
I hear the same bleats from the Mac Faithful every time us UNIX folk say we won't convert without a three button pointer. And it's BS because you have obviously never ran GIMP (fill in the blank with your fav). Programs like GIMP use all three buttons alone AND in combination with the 'bucky bits.'
Three buttons are vital to productive use of non-trivial GUI apps on a *NIX workstation, iBooks, having but one button, therefore are NOT suitable for serious UNIX work, QED.
And it IS possible to have a real keyboard and pointer in a small system. My Thinkpad 570E is damn near as thin as a TiBook and still managed to get a much better keyboard in. (And my Thinkpad is smaller in the other two dimensions and lighter than a TiBook, no neayh! Do wish it had the five plus hours of runtime though.)
And don't even get me started about the raggedy ass userland Apple ships. It is painfully obvious that the BSD portions of OSX is just as much a neglected stepchild as the old POSIX subsystem in NT. And no, downloading fink or the GNU toolchain is no more a solution than adding Cygwin is an excuse for NT's defects.
Try moving an OSX filesystem from one location to another. cp won't do it, tar can't handle the deeply nested filesystem and cpio, while having the same problems as tar, silently fails instead of throwing a warning. Useless!
And the idiocy extends into the GUI portion as well. They ship a utility called "Disk Copy" that does everything EXCEPT copy a disk. This is intuitive?
Give em another couple of years and maybe they will start to learn how to build a UNIX based OS. Perhaps by 2005 they can make it to where Sun was in 1990 or RedHat was with their first offering.
You couldn't patent dual clocks due to prior art. Motorola was doing that trick with the M6809 ages ago. Two clocks (P & Q) 90 degrees out of phase with the CPU active on each of the four phase combos.
It allowed a nominal 1.89Mhz Tandy Color Computer 3 to often outrun a stock AT because while the AT was throwing wait states by the half dozen anytime it wanted to actually DO anything the 6809 was actually reading or writing from memory on better than half of it's cycles.
And since the CoCo's memory system never imposed wait states, run times were 100% deterministic. Made lots of programming jobs a LOT simpler to implement. Of course I really doubt it would be possible to attain today's speeds and remain deterministic, what with all of the cacheing that now goes on. Guess times change.
Yup, when a *NIX site gets the/. effect it goes away, but differently. The *NIX site goes when the bandwidth is totally soaked and you just can't contact the victim anymore. NT sites fail sooner because they can still deliver up error pages just fine, but the system is overloaded.
Actually that is a good comparison. When the Social Security Act was originally passed it was against the law to use the SSN for anything else because so many people feared the things that would come from a universal number on everyone. And now you can't exist without one.
This crap will be the same. When introduced it is 'totally optional' and 'totally in the control of the owner.' Five years later, somehow Bill becomes the 'owner' and you can't actually use your PC for much without opting into the DRM. Give em half a chance and most ISP's will be running a new & improved PPP that uses DRM so nobody connect to MSN^H^H^H The Internet without Palladium.
btw, now you DO have to get the kids an SSN or you can't claim them as dependents on your tax return or get them admitted to a public school. I hear the hospitals have to start the paperwork before they can allow you take a kid home these days. So much for optional.
Nah, just make sure/boot is on a small partition at the start of the drive...... oh, you are probably running one of those legacy systems that uses the BIOS for something other than booting, guess you are just screwed.:)
Or you could just go download your drive manaufacturer's version of drive manager and it can deal with the problem.
> The only harm you'd do is to the game companies > trying to sell games. Not cool. Not cool at all.
No, screw em hard and screw em now. Any company that gets in bed with M$ gets screwed into the ground eventually. Best they get burned now while they still have other markets. They can take a hit to their stock price, what they can't take is allowing M$ to run Nintendo & Sony out and then be forced to assume the position, leaving M$ the only game company.
Well that is good to hear. Back in the 80s the processes Kodak offered would vary the color on a 1/2 degree temp difference so it looks like they did bring it to market.
Back in the 80s Pop was playing with a home darkroom and I helped out a bit and learned most of it. He bought a product called "ParColor" out of a small ad in a photography mag which claimed it was a color print process that was only two steps and had a fairly wide temp range.
Damned if it didn't work as advertised. I can personally testify to that. I helped print them and one hung on the wall in the living room until fire destroyed the old house in 2000.
But the on topic part is when he called to order more they told him they had just been bought be Kodak and couldn't take any more orders. Never heard of that process again.
The reason the tech industry has been immune to unions is that we have brains and therefore don't need to be treated as wards of the state like some 80 IQ coal digger. (No offense to coal miners)
The correct response to a company treating you like shit is to get out, not bring in the govt to beat them into submission and allow the employees to rewrite the rules until until they destroy the company. (See the Boeing machinists pending strike and the UAW's results with the US automakers.)
So long as there are insecure techs fresh out of college willing to work insane hours for no pay increase companies will get away with it for a while. But of course when all you have on a project is kids like that your company is going to end up on F---edcompany.com.
It is called capitalism. Vendors offer up products, I examine them and decide if they are worth the price asked. You do the same along with a few billion other people and the market works. Give people a little credit. Remember how long DIVX lasted? It was ignored in droves because the deal was so one sided.
Remember when almost all software was copy restricted? Defrag utils had to have special options to leave Lotus's copy restriction crap on the same sector of your drive lest it stop working! Nobody tries that sort of thing anymore. It was not because the vendors became enlightened, nice or were ordered by the government, it was because of customer complaints and threats to switch vendors.
No, he said if you don't like the copy restriction tech, factor that into your purchasing decision. As for me, being unable to copy would probably cut a software package's value by 25-50% except in a few special cases.
Add that reduction to the reduction I already apply when setting a value on any closed software and it is doubtful I'll ever buy anything except a game on such terms. Games have little longterm value to me so the eventual loss of the media isn't that bad and likewise knowing it will run on future platforms is likewise of little value.
On the other hand, being unable to copy DVDs doesn't bother me yet (And knowing they CAN be ripped, just not copied to another DVD9 means when I DO want to put my collection on a server I can). Being unable to rip music CDs would result in no more purchases though since I rarely play the original physical media anymore.
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Of course. If you are saving a file to disk, disk full, write error, write protect, etc are all examples of errors that should be expected and allowances made. Getting a seg fault would be UNexpected and falling back to the apps generic error handler is probably acceptable.
Except of course it wasn't ill fated at all. When the public outcry came along, the allowed the BIOS makers to put in an option to supress it. And they all did. For a time.
Got some Thinkpads a few months ago and guess what? The option is GONE. They win, we lose.
Expect the same tactics again. In the beginning it will be optional but it won't stay that way long.
This will work out exactly like the sat piracy in the BUD (Big Ugly Dish) era. It's now general knowledge that General Instruments was making all of the 'pirate' chips for the Video Cipher hacks, then breaking them again a few months later. The chaos that ensued with having to replace your hacked chips every few months eventually caused all but the most diehard to give up. And I wouldn't be all that suprised to learn DirecTV tried to do the same thing except it got out of hand. No fear though, although the bootleggers got a few years of free signal with only a few forced upgrades, they will eventually close that back down.
Same thing here. M$ doesn't care if numbnut gets Linux going on his X-Box. The hardcore will always suceed at a unrealistic cost in time and money. So long as they discourage joe average end user they win.
Of course the difference here is Sat TV needs a hack that can decode the signals coming down NOW. An X-Box hack only needs to be able to work once. Changes the odds towards the hacks, but does it do enough? How many want to look up their box in ranges of manufacturing dates & serial numbers to see IF their machine is hackable and which mod they need to get. Especially considering those lists will become notorious for inaccuracy.
Amen.... unless they get TOO far ahead in the numbers game. Then start burning off some votes on third party (Libertarian in my case) to keep them from getting enough seats their moralistic and mercantilistic tendencies become too prominent.
Haven't seen too much that would imply intelligence. Raw animal cunning and an undying hunger to enslave the world to her perverted will perhaps, but not much brains. Look how far she got with HillaryCare and tell me again how smart she is.
UNIX is not just an Operating System, it is a culture. If I (in the US) went to France I wouldn't be stupid enough to bitch and moan about not being able to understand all of that "confusing French crap." I know enough to realize a) it isn't confusing to THEM, b) it won't be confusing to ME once I pick up some of their language and way of doing things and c) they probably think my most of my ways are just as odd.
Expecting the citizens of UNIXland to toss out thirty YEARS of tradition, lore, culture and undisputed success (why else are all these philistines wanting in?) to satisfy some ignorant savages who can't be bothered to pick up a fscking "Dummies" book isn't a very realistic expectation.
> Right. And Gimp was never designed for Mac.
Exactly my point; thank you! GIMP is a UNIX program adn needs a real UNIX environment, including the hardware portion of the user experience.
How had would it be for Apple to put in a three button pointer and rig the OS to treat them all as one big button by default? Since it isn't a real 'clicky' button (at least on the TiBook I played with) the normal users wouldn't even have to know it was three, just one big button with some artfully placed grooves. They don't really care, we are supposed to adopt the "Mac Way" like some sort of cult. Screw that.
> > Try moving an OSX filesystem from one
> > location to another.
> man ditto
Did. Now go read www.macosxlabs.org where they report that using the switch to copy resources causes unexplainable failures.
It is obvious you are a Mac user who has read up a bit on this "unix thing" that they dropped on you with OSX but you probably don't depend on those subsystems yet. I'm a UNIX user exploring OSX starting from their promise it was "UNIX with a pretty face." It ain't.
And even the graphical part is buggy as hell if you push it hard. I have been rebooting fast and furious after finding new ways to wedge it, almost like Win3.1.
Basically, I like the idea, but judge the current implementation (10.1.x) as beta quality. No, my site won't be buying licenses for 10.2 on the forlorn hope that chasing the upgrade fairy will fix things this quick.
Ya, I saw "Burn CD" also. Try copying something off to a FireWire drive sometime. Can't be done. If it was only designed to copy CDs it should have been CD Burner or CD Copy.
And Mac folk rag us about "cp" being cryptic? There is an icon labeled in plain english "Disk Copy" that won't actually copy a disk. Bah!
(And there isn't really a need to dredge up the old drag to trash to eject golden oldie is there? At least on OSX the trashcan icon does switch to an eject symbol.)
1. Install openssh
2. Get the public/private keys setup
3. RTFM the manpage on scp
4. Bliss!
I'll call distributions whatever the publishers of said distributions name them. Until you convince Redhat to rename their product "Redhat GNU/Linux" it would be incorrect for anyone else to refer to it that way.
Of course were RH to do such a thing I'd use their preferred name when formally referring to the product. And dump their stock on the grounds they had lost their zarking minds.
Nope. I remember that first Yggdrasil CD and it did call it self LGX. But I still have their last release (Fall 95) and it had become "Plug and Play Linux" Just picking historical nits. :)
> Distros such as Redhat, Debian etc. are modified
> versions of the GNU system with Linux as the
> kernel
No they aren't. The "GNU System" won't exist until GNU builds a coherent SYSTEM from their tools (and adds in X, Perl, etc) and the HURD. THAT will be the GNU System, and if Redhat took it and stuck Linus's kernel under it, your statement would be true. As it stands, I am currently running a Redhat system with Linux as it's kernel, a bunch of GNU tools (many of which are maintained by RedHat), X, Perl, etc. The total system integration is a big part of the package, at least as big as any of the individual components.
I hear the same bleats from the Mac Faithful every time us UNIX folk say we won't convert without a three button pointer. And it's BS because you have obviously never ran GIMP (fill in the blank with your fav). Programs like GIMP use all three buttons alone AND in combination with the 'bucky bits.'
Three buttons are vital to productive use of non-trivial GUI apps on a *NIX workstation, iBooks, having but one button, therefore are NOT suitable for serious UNIX work, QED.
And it IS possible to have a real keyboard and pointer in a small system. My Thinkpad 570E is damn near as thin as a TiBook and still managed to get a much better keyboard in. (And my Thinkpad is smaller in the other two dimensions and lighter than a TiBook, no neayh! Do wish it had the five plus hours of runtime though.)
And don't even get me started about the raggedy ass userland Apple ships. It is painfully obvious that the BSD portions of OSX is just as much a neglected stepchild as the old POSIX subsystem in NT. And no, downloading fink or the GNU toolchain is no more a solution than adding Cygwin is an excuse for NT's defects.
Try moving an OSX filesystem from one location to another. cp won't do it, tar can't handle the deeply nested filesystem and cpio, while having the same problems as tar, silently fails instead of throwing a warning. Useless!
And the idiocy extends into the GUI portion as well. They ship a utility called "Disk Copy" that does everything EXCEPT copy a disk. This is intuitive?
Give em another couple of years and maybe they will start to learn how to build a UNIX based OS. Perhaps by 2005 they can make it to where Sun was in 1990 or RedHat was with their first offering.
> When an app is running, you can right-click and ....
> say "Keep in Dock",
Eh? How does one right click a 1-button mouse?
We have a CD tower at work with ten Plextors (just CD-ROM, not CDR) in it. Even though it gets little use half the drives have failed.
You couldn't patent dual clocks due to prior art. Motorola was doing that trick with the M6809 ages ago. Two clocks (P & Q) 90 degrees out of phase with the CPU active on each of the four phase combos.
It allowed a nominal 1.89Mhz Tandy Color Computer 3 to often outrun a stock AT because while the AT was throwing wait states by the half dozen anytime it wanted to actually DO anything the 6809 was actually reading or writing from memory on better than half of it's cycles.
And since the CoCo's memory system never imposed wait states, run times were 100% deterministic. Made lots of programming jobs a LOT simpler to implement. Of course I really doubt it would be possible to attain today's speeds and remain deterministic, what with all of the cacheing that now goes on. Guess times change.
Yup, when a *NIX site gets the /. effect it goes away, but differently. The *NIX site goes when the bandwidth is totally soaked and you just can't contact the victim anymore. NT sites fail sooner because they can still deliver up error pages just fine, but the system is overloaded.
Actually that is a good comparison. When the Social Security Act was originally passed it was against the law to use the SSN for anything else because so many people feared the things that would come from a universal number on everyone. And now you can't exist without one.
This crap will be the same. When introduced it is 'totally optional' and 'totally in the control of the owner.' Five years later, somehow Bill becomes the 'owner' and you can't actually use your PC for much without opting into the DRM. Give em half a chance and most ISP's will be running a new & improved PPP that uses DRM so nobody connect to MSN^H^H^H The Internet without Palladium.
btw, now you DO have to get the kids an SSN or you can't claim them as dependents on your tax return or get them admitted to a public school. I hear the hospitals have to start the paperwork before they can allow you take a kid home these days. So much for optional.
Nah, just make sure /boot is on a small partition at the start of the drive...... oh, you are probably running one of those legacy systems that uses the BIOS for something other than booting, guess you are just screwed. :)
Or you could just go download your drive manaufacturer's version of drive manager and it can deal with the problem.
> The only harm you'd do is to the game companies
> trying to sell games. Not cool. Not cool at all.
No, screw em hard and screw em now. Any company that gets in bed with M$ gets screwed into the ground eventually. Best they get burned now while they still have other markets. They can take a hit to their stock price, what they can't take is allowing M$ to run Nintendo & Sony out and then be forced to assume the position, leaving M$ the only game company.
Well that is good to hear. Back in the 80s the processes Kodak offered would vary the color on a 1/2 degree temp difference so it looks like they did bring it to market.
Back in the 80s Pop was playing with a home darkroom and I helped out a bit and learned most of it. He bought a product called "ParColor" out of a small ad in a photography mag which claimed it was a color print process that was only two steps and had a fairly wide temp range.
Damned if it didn't work as advertised. I can personally testify to that. I helped print them and one hung on the wall in the living room until fire destroyed the old house in 2000.
But the on topic part is when he called to order more they told him they had just been bought be Kodak and couldn't take any more orders. Never heard of that process again.
The reason the tech industry has been immune to unions is that we have brains and therefore don't need to be treated as wards of the state like some 80 IQ coal digger. (No offense to coal miners)
The correct response to a company treating you like shit is to get out, not bring in the govt to beat them into submission and allow the employees to rewrite the rules until until they destroy the company. (See the Boeing machinists pending strike and the UAW's results with the US automakers.)
So long as there are insecure techs fresh out of college willing to work insane hours for no pay increase companies will get away with it for a while. But of course when all you have on a project is kids like that your company is going to end up on F---edcompany.com.
It is called capitalism. Vendors offer up products, I examine them and decide if they are worth the price asked. You do the same along with a few billion other people and the market works. Give people a little credit. Remember how long DIVX lasted? It was ignored in droves because the deal was so one sided.
Remember when almost all software was copy restricted? Defrag utils had to have special options to leave Lotus's copy restriction crap on the same sector of your drive lest it stop working! Nobody tries that sort of thing anymore. It was not because the vendors became enlightened, nice or were ordered by the government, it was because of customer complaints and threats to switch vendors.
No, he said if you don't like the copy restriction tech, factor that into your purchasing decision. As for me, being unable to copy would probably cut a software package's value by 25-50% except in a few special cases.
Add that reduction to the reduction I already apply when setting a value on any closed software and it is doubtful I'll ever buy anything except a game on such terms. Games have little longterm value to me so the eventual loss of the media isn't that bad and likewise knowing it will run on future platforms is likewise of little value.
On the other hand, being unable to copy DVDs doesn't bother me yet (And knowing they CAN be ripped, just not copied to another DVD9 means when I DO want to put my collection on a server I can). Being unable to rip music CDs would result in no more purchases though since I rarely play the original physical media anymore.