Are you suggesting they "componentize" it? That was one of the first things they did. It's even in their FAQ.
From: http://www.openoffice.org/FAQs/faq-other.html#12 "A. Differences between StarOffice 5.2 and the future of StarOffice
* The source code has undergone some significant changes since 5.2 was released. Some of these changes are:
o Removal of integrated desktop
o Componentization of word processing, spreadsheet and graphic applications modules
o Removal of email and calendar and the schedule server
o Removal of the browser
o Move to XML-file formats
o Improved Microsoft filters
o CJK support (CJK refers to Asian languages: C=Chinese, simple and traditional, J= Japanese, K= Korean)
These are all changes that were decided upon by Sun Microsystems before the source code was released to the community."
Theoretically yeah I guess, although I agree with the other pster who said that it's not the consumers' responsibility to prop up businesses.
Practically I don't see it as a huge problem. I mean would you trust some ISOs floating around Freenet? Would you trust them enough to deploy them into production?
I think RH are pushing the envelope but this is hardly a new behaviour. Take the contraversial RH GCC saga for instance or the backporting/feature adding stuff in their stable kernels.
RH are trying to push Linux forward and they have been doing that for years now. Some may argue they move too fast. Fair enough, maybe you should check out one of the slower-moving-this-stuff-is-known-to-be-damn-stabl e distros, or maybe you can avoid the distro upgrade altogether. It's a double-edged sword: they sometimes seem to sacrifice a bit of known stability for the benefit of development.
Personally I like what they're doing: they seem to like giving everything a kick in the backside in the push towards even more awesome software.
In my 6 years of running RH on the desktop and server rooms I have no major complaints. I have a qmail/Courier-IMAP/qmail-scanner box sitting somewhere that would have at least 1.5 years uptime by now.
> Cause, I'm damn sure not upgrading to RH 8. You may think it's buggy, but you don't know the half of it. Try running it > on a server sometime - it CAN'T be done in a sane manner. The default install installed apache 2, but then tried > to install a version of mod_perl that is incompatable with 2.0, so then it also installed 1.3.19, but > then mod_php wouldn't work, no SSL support, etc. Good grief. RH 8 was buggy beyond belief.
That doesn't sound like fun. Is this the RH network update thing? Does it attempt to satisfy dependencies by downloading stuff and auto-installing them? Does it require user intervention?
Couldn't you have installed Apache 1.3x instead? I can sort of see how this happened (I believe mod_perl and mod_php took some time updating for Apache2, so a recent enough version of mod_perl may not have been available at the time *sigh*)
When I'm building a server based on RH I often do the following, especially if the versions of the services aren't the ones I want, or I want to customise further. I hope this helps:
1. Remove/ Don't install the RPM version of the service (eg. Apache) 2. Download CheckInstall 3. Download the service's source. 4. Compile the software and use "CheckInstall" to install it as an RPM for simple version tracking and simple uninstall facility. If the package uses autoconf, it's simply:./configure && make && checkinstall.
I don't rely on some auto-updater thingie. Perhaps that's one way I'm avoiding the problems you describe.
I have an 300 baud acoustic coupler too but I've never used it: I saw it at a swap meet and had to buy it for retro "Electric Dreams" funkiness. (How dodgy is that movie? Great stuff.)
That's not to say I haven't had my share of 300 baud excitement though: I used to use a serial 300 (also did 1200/75!) baud modem on my Apple IIGS to connect to Uni and do my COBOL assignments on VMS. Now _that's_ entertainment I can tell you.
> I'd be curious to see what 'partial moraility' looks like. It sounds like each person just makes up their own rules, based upon random criterion (since, of course, nothing is absolute). Is that how it's done?
> I imagine a CAT5 cable glowing a bright cherry red, and a server actually spitting out the connector from the RJ45 plug holding that cable.
Well you have some imagination. 8)
I just can just imagine a dude trying desperately to shell into the machine and then make the silly mistake of running 'top'
If top actually comes up, the admin will then screech something like "Load Average: 60! HUH? Whoa! Look at the number of tasks that are currently RUNNING!"
It's actually a group of programs: a caching nameserver "dnscache", a non-recursive nameserver "tinydns", a zone-transfer-handling program "axfrdns", reverse DNS wall "walldns" and some rbldns thing.
I used to run various mixes of the above on a few boxes at my last job. Nice software but read the fine instructions: tinydns is very different to Bind wrt administration.
You don't need to look up the Andy T flamewar, just read LKML. Won't be long before you read a Linus post claiming that someone/something is stupid/wrong and that he/it should be destroyed.
It's sometimes quite entertaining.
There's a few things you could call Linus, "sheep" is not one of them.
> Sun really hasn't done much for Gnome and Mozilla
Not sure about the Mozilla bit but Sun have been contributing to Gnome in a big way from what I've read. The usability studies, accessibility additions and gnome2 hacking for starters.
They have a bunch of engineers working on Gnome but the most valuable thing they bring to the table is the usability/ q&a stuff which hadn't been in Gnome before.
> Just as easy as downloading and running setup.exe, wouldn't you say?
Non-geeks most certainly wouldn't.
When yer mum calls you regarding her shpanky new FreeBSD box and the fact that "some book... or library.. that's it.." needs upgrading are you going to tell her to fire up an xterm, cd into/ports/ and make all install clean. Then claim that's just as easy as double-clicking on a "setup" icon?
They're just doing what everyone else running a "free" website is/ has been doing: giving "value adds" to people who are willing to pay a measly annual subscription fee.
You talk about it as if this darn thing is a sensational profit maker...
If you've got some bright idea on how/. can make some money I'm sure the staff would appreciate hearing from you. Otherwise, pop back under your bridge.
> I know that physical access makes a machine vulnerable in most cases. But that is because people don't password their bootloader, don't password their bios and disable boot disks.
> Take these precautions and you can be fairly secure with physical access
This becomes a real hassle when the machine in question is in a colocation facility 20 miles away.
Slashdot Mirror
I thought those backticks were single-quotes. You're actually almost 100% correct, you just need to put quotes around the 138474 bit.
Cheers
Stor
From where I'm sitting, your SQL is syntactically invalid.
:P
> Karma: SELECT `karma` FROM `users` WHERE `userid`=138474;
is incorrect. It should be:
SELECT karma FROM users WHERE userid='138474';
Sorry
Cheers
Stor
Eh?
Are you suggesting they "componentize" it? That was one of the first things they did. It's even in their FAQ.
From: http://www.openoffice.org/FAQs/faq-other.html#12
"A. Differences between StarOffice 5.2 and the future of StarOffice
* The source code has undergone some significant changes since 5.2 was released. Some of these changes are:
o Removal of integrated desktop
o Componentization of word processing, spreadsheet and graphic applications modules
o Removal of email and calendar and the schedule server
o Removal of the browser
o Move to XML-file formats
o Improved Microsoft filters
o CJK support (CJK refers to Asian languages: C=Chinese, simple and traditional, J= Japanese, K= Korean)
These are all changes that were decided upon by Sun Microsystems before the source code was released to the community."
Or did you mean something else?
Cheers
Stor
Hi!
The following links should tell you what you want to know:
Dave's Post-halloween document and The Kernel Status Page
Cheers
Stor
Theoretically yeah I guess, although I agree with the other pster who said that it's not the consumers' responsibility to prop up businesses.
Practically I don't see it as a huge problem. I mean would you trust some ISOs floating around Freenet? Would you trust them enough to deploy them into production?
Cheers
Stor
I think RH are pushing the envelope but this is hardly a new behaviour. Take the contraversial RH GCC saga for instance or the backporting/feature adding stuff in their stable kernels.
l e distros, or maybe you can avoid the distro upgrade altogether. It's a double-edged sword: they sometimes seem to sacrifice a bit of known stability for the benefit of development.
RH are trying to push Linux forward and they have been doing that for years now. Some may argue they move too fast. Fair enough, maybe you should check out one of the slower-moving-this-stuff-is-known-to-be-damn-stab
Personally I like what they're doing: they seem to like giving everything a kick in the backside in the push towards even more awesome software.
In my 6 years of running RH on the desktop and server rooms I have no major complaints. I have a qmail/Courier-IMAP/qmail-scanner box sitting somewhere that would have at least 1.5 years uptime by now.
Cheers
Stor
> Cause, I'm damn sure not upgrading to RH 8. You may think it's buggy, but you don't know the half of it. Try running it
./configure && make && checkinstall.
> on a server sometime - it CAN'T be done in a sane manner. The default install installed apache 2, but then tried
> to install a version of mod_perl that is incompatable with 2.0, so then it also installed 1.3.19, but
> then mod_php wouldn't work, no SSL support, etc. Good grief. RH 8 was buggy beyond belief.
That doesn't sound like fun. Is this the RH network update thing? Does it attempt to satisfy dependencies by downloading stuff and auto-installing them? Does it require user intervention?
Couldn't you have installed Apache 1.3x instead? I can sort of see how this happened (I believe mod_perl and mod_php took some time updating for Apache2, so a recent enough version of mod_perl may not have been available at the time *sigh*)
When I'm building a server based on RH I often do the following, especially if the versions of the services aren't the ones I want, or I want to customise further. I hope this helps:
1. Remove/ Don't install the RPM version of the service (eg. Apache)
2. Download CheckInstall
3. Download the service's source.
4. Compile the software and use "CheckInstall" to install it as an RPM for simple version tracking and simple uninstall facility. If the package uses autoconf, it's simply:
I don't rely on some auto-updater thingie. Perhaps that's one way I'm avoiding the problems you describe.
Cheers
Stor
> Uhhh, have you heard of Mono?
Uhhh, have you heard of anyone *deploying* mono in a corporate production environment?
Cheers
Stor
ps. Sun don't get it... they never have. Way too arrogant to see past their own BS.
I have an 300 baud acoustic coupler too but I've never used it: I saw it at a swap meet and had to buy it for retro "Electric Dreams" funkiness. (How dodgy is that movie? Great stuff.)
That's not to say I haven't had my share of 300 baud excitement though: I used to use a serial 300 (also did 1200/75!) baud modem on my Apple IIGS to connect to Uni and do my COBOL assignments on VMS. Now _that's_ entertainment I can tell you.
Cheers
Stor
> I'd be curious to see what 'partial moraility' looks like. It sounds like each person just makes up their own rules, based upon random criterion (since, of course, nothing is absolute). Is that how it's done?
No, that's called "religion".
Stor
> I imagine a CAT5 cable glowing a bright cherry red, and a server actually spitting out the connector from the RJ45 plug holding that cable.
Well you have some imagination. 8)
I just can just imagine a dude trying desperately to shell into the machine and then make the silly mistake of running 'top'
If top actually comes up, the admin will then screech something like "Load Average: 60! HUH? Whoa! Look at the number of tasks that are currently RUNNING!"
Then the fun really starts: OOM. whee...
Cheers
Stor
>And Borne Upon His Shoulders
Why did Linus' have a Bourne Shell on his shoulders? So he could hear the C?
Oh sorry
Stor
Also there's Dr. Bernstein's djbdns
It's actually a group of programs: a caching nameserver "dnscache", a non-recursive nameserver "tinydns", a zone-transfer-handling program "axfrdns", reverse DNS wall "walldns" and some rbldns thing.
I used to run various mixes of the above on a few boxes at my last job. Nice software but read the fine instructions: tinydns is very different to Bind wrt administration.
Cheers
Stor
You don't need to look up the Andy T flamewar, just read LKML. Won't be long before you read a Linus post claiming that someone/something is stupid/wrong and that he/it should be destroyed.
It's sometimes quite entertaining.
There's a few things you could call Linus, "sheep" is not one of them.
Cheers
Stor
> Sun really hasn't done much for Gnome and Mozilla
Not sure about the Mozilla bit but Sun have been contributing to Gnome in a big way from what I've read. The usability studies, accessibility additions and gnome2 hacking for starters.
They have a bunch of engineers working on Gnome but the most valuable thing they bring to the table is the usability/ q&a stuff which hadn't been in Gnome before.
Cheers
Stor
> cd into /ports/
/ports/wherever-the-hell-you-want-mum
Should have previewed that or learn to stop using gt and lt signs.
I meant
Cheers
Stor
> Just as easy as downloading and running setup.exe, wouldn't you say?
/ports/ and make all install clean. Then claim that's just as easy as double-clicking on a "setup" icon?
Non-geeks most certainly wouldn't.
When yer mum calls you regarding her shpanky new FreeBSD box and the fact that "some book... or library.. that's it.." needs upgrading are you going to tell her to fire up an xterm, cd into
You've never done tech support right?
Cheers
Stor
If only that worked with Telstra...
Cheers
Stor
If it doesn't include DepTricketyTrackTronTronixTronTron 12000, I don't want to know about it.
/ 20 01-March/000381.html
http://lists.siena.linux.it/pipermail/slug-tech
Cheers
Stor
And people wonder why the tech bubble burst...
/. can make some money I'm sure the staff would appreciate hearing from you. Otherwise, pop back under your bridge.
They're just doing what everyone else running a "free" website is/ has been doing: giving "value adds" to people who are willing to pay a measly annual subscription fee.
You talk about it as if this darn thing is a sensational profit maker...
If you've got some bright idea on how
Cheers
Stor
You have a Perl script to autogenerate that I assume?
Cheers
Stor
> I know that physical access makes a machine vulnerable in most cases. But that is because people don't password their bootloader, don't password their bios and disable boot disks.
> Take these precautions and you can be fairly secure with physical access
This becomes a real hassle when the machine in question is in a colocation facility 20 miles away.
Cheers
AndyM
> Maybe throw in those spiffy vector icons (eye candy!)
d cr ystal.png
Too late:
http://librsvg.sourceforge.net/images/spheresan
Yes it looks a bit hackish at the moment but you can see the potential. Could be _very_ nice.
There are claims now that librsvg can render svgs as fast as libpng can render pngs.
Cheers
Stor
Regardless it gives us a new thing to fight about, which is obviously A Good Thing.
Cheers
Stor
What's wrong with logfiles?
Cheers
Stor