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Red Hat 9 To Be Released March 31
Garfunkel writes "Looks like Red Hat is breaking tradition and skipping 8.1 and 8.2 and jumping directly to 9.0 RHN subscribers
get it a week ahead on March 31st. Available to the rest the world a week
later (April 7)." The website refers to the upcoming release simply as "9" -- which doesn't rule out future point releases, but could it be?
April 1. April Fools!
Just trying to keep up with Slackware.
"Are you running Linux 9 yet?"
"I'll say it again for the logic-impaired." -- Larry Wall.
9 instead of 8.1?
Could this be an early April Fool's joke?
Looks like more version-number leapfrog.
Anyone know if this is using 2.4.20 or still 2.4.18 (like in 8.0)? I didn't see a link to what versions are included or what the major differences are.
Thanks,
Adam
All these new releases are making me dizzy. I still think 7.3 is new.
Anyone know if they'll release DVD ISOs? I think for previous versions you had to be a member or whatever.
It would be kinda nice to download just about every package and put it on one DVD.
WWJD.... for a Klondike bar?
And to think, I'm still waiting for Ximian to release it's version of Gnome for RedHat 8.0.
then 10.2 and 10.3 in June
The cult of Linux strikes again, in that case. Paying for advance release of this is a scam.
I really hope that Red Hat drops the Unified desktop for RH 9.
what is the point of using another window manager, if the interface is **EXACTLY** the same. This doesn't even consider the quality of their interface, which is ok.
They also offer 0 customization on their interface, which is really annoying.
For now at least, I will stick SSHing into my PS2, and then using everything in text mode.
If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
Thanks.
So far, point releases have had useful enhancements, while major releases have redone everything and made life miserable. (e.g. using xinetd and broken a gcc in 7.0, metacity stubbornly by default in 8.0)
Hopefully this is just a marketing decision.
This can only mean on thing!
It will be so full of bugs that you can't use it!
The GCCv96 stuff really pissed me off in 8, apache wouldn't compile. It made me lose all faith in RedHat.
I wonder why they did that...they did skip from 7.2 to 8 if i'm not mistaken...hopefully they didnt change gnome and kde again...
From the look of it, thats about all that wee brain of yours can handle.
I suppose that higher numbers are better from the perspective of new users comparing products, although the race ahead didn't seem to do Mandrake enough good.
A day shy of April 1 is kind of fishy, though.
Lastly, imagine the chaos that will reign when Redhat releases Red Hat 10.
Yes, it will be "ten", as in the same version as the Apple OS X, also a UNIX.
Oh, but "X" is the windowing system for UNIX, you know, "eks eleven", which is much better than "X10", the same as the clunky old protocol for handling devices around your house. Not Windows, but "X Windows"...
It'll be like "Who's on First" all over again...
"Provided by the management for your protection."
So essentially Red Hat upgrades from 8 to 9 in ~6 months. No wonder no one wants to write general-release commerical apps for Linux .. by the time they develop & test their product, the distro essentially discontinues the release & doesn't support it. At this rate, I don't think we will ever convince developers of some great software (Adobe, Macromedia, etc) to port to Linux. Way too much support-related cost involved.
But I'm sure that there are some really excellent features packed into 9 to make it worth being a full version upgrade and not a point upgrade (uhh.. not)
It's been pointed out on the beta list that 7.0 was just called 7 when it came out. That didn't stop a 7.[123] from appearing later.
i obtain my rhce on redhat 7.3 in december 2002.
my cert will be obsolete with 9.3
maybe six month....
What they are going to make you buy overpriced hardware to get in with version 10, Damn it..
It's all very well RedHat playing "keeping up with the Jones'" with Slackware and Mandrake, but what about those of us who have spent our hard-earned money on a not-so-cheap certification that will now be rendered expired because of this jump to 9.0?
I got my RHCE less than a year ago, at RH7.2. It was stated that RHCE's are valid for two releases - ie when 9.0 came about, I have to recertify.
Was I wrong to expect that since it took two years to go from 7.0 to 8.0, I might actually have been able to hold onto my certification for more than one year!?
God I can't stand these Microsoft goons... are they multiplying?
I don`t read Redhat related mailing lists so my guess is as good as anyones, but maybe they are breaking binary compatibility in a big way, lets say additions to KDE and Gnome or maybe they just decided not to skip GCC 3.3 in favour of GCC 3.4 ???
John Carmack fan, browsing at +5 since 1999.
Let's just hope that, unlike 8 they decided to invest some kinda way to convert mp3's to .ogg files. Not being able to run all my Very legit music was rather annoying.
I'm stil running 7.3
------88-------- Sig? Sorry, I don't smoke.
I've always thought that versioning should be more related to features & point releases than anything external, like "marketing".
I see a few reasons for the "9" over 8.1
I'd really like to see a list of "new features" so I can decide for myself. :)
oo catch up with Mandrake and 1-up [woot, woot] SuSE.
Karma: The shiznight, mostly because I am the Drizzle.
Since it's free software, couldn't an RHN member technically just leak it without consequence?
evil adrian
Questioning timothy's judgement can be bad for your karma.
Umm I have seen that break more servers than a Linux upgrade ever did..
Back in my day, we were able to count version numbers with a single hand, because most of us had lost the other one fighting bears and snowmen!
"5... 4... 3.. 1... OFFBLAST!"
I remember when Slackware jumped from I think 3 to 8 or something similar (I don't use Slackware so I'm not sure) and claimed it was just to shut people up who were wondering if Slackware was "Linux 7.0" compatible. I wonder if this is what Red Hat is doing because Mandrake is coming out with 9.1 soon. I'd really like to know if the benefits in 9 will be great enough to justify this jump. It will probably have a 2.4.20 something kernel, maybe KDE 3.1 (even though Red Hat isn't a big fan of KDE) and some other stuff. Seems to me that it should probably be 8.1. Didn't 8 just come out 4-6 months ago?
can't sleep slashdot will eat me
Well since we all know major releases such as 5.0, 6.0 etc.. have all been less than major release quality, perhaps Redhat has fixed the major 8.0 issues and instead of going as a 8.x they decided to go with a 9.0 and are actually releasing a stable major release.
can i use the word "major" any more?
people are retarded and must have the newest version number, or the fastest clockspeed - even if that doesn't necessarily denote "better"
I would have thought that the linux crowd would be smart enough to be above that... which isn't to say that they aren't - perhaps it is the sales and marketing people at redhat that are retarded here.
They should just step it up to 34 and show their customers that all the others suck.
(of course nothing should ever go past version 42)
There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
But with Slackware, I agree it is a major upgrade since the switched to GCC 3.2.2...but I admit, it is not as major as going from COFF to ELF format...but this does deserve a major number change.
ttyl
Farrell
CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
My sympathy, I give to you.
In related news, I'm changing my job title to Systems Analyst 2.0, to better highlight new features and capabilities. Of course, biweekly licensing fees will be readjusted to reflect this enhanced functionality...
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
9 ...then there was 9.1 then 9.2... 9.2.1 and 9.2.2 ... and then a desent OS was finally released :o)
Well, if this isn't an April fools prank then its too late. I like many of you got really po'ed at that crippled desktop crap.
I've jumped ship and switched to Gentoo, and KDE 3.1 for my desktop. So no more RH for me. Maybe...just maybe if they released a non-gimped desktop then I might reconsider using the distro again. But honestly, I've come to REALLY like emerge.
Maybe Gentoo should skip 1.4 and go directly to 9 to catch up!
n1 is very important from an administration standpoint. This is a very valid concern. Solaris simply has administration tools that Linux doesn't have.
I submitted a story on this prior to this one, but the gyst is this: Due to this move, anyone who wants to use RHN still will have 3 options:
install RH9 on their systems, overwriting whatever OS was there. Problems: long downtime to install OS then re-set everything up, depending on a X.0 release for everything
"upgrade" current systems to RH9. In my experience, longer downtime than just doing a clean install - things break, get annoying, etc.
hack their systems to look, act, and talk like RH9 systems tothe RHN update software, so you can still update them through RHN
personally, I think I'll just let this year be the last year I'm subscribed to RHN, then either get my updates from someone else (redcarpet?) or I'll just mirror the ftp://updates.redhat.com server locally and run my own service. I don't see any of those 3 above options working for me. Has RedHat gone insane? Do they not realize people count on linux in an enterprise environment, where anything beyond a few minutes downtime is very bad??
Looks like Red Hat is breaking tradition and skipping 8.1 and 8.2
I haven't used red hat in years because it's a piece of crap worst major distro ever!, but don't they commonly skip versions to inflate their number. In the late 90's, I remember them skipping a couple of major version numbers.
I think I'll wait for X before I'll switch.
I just want to know what new changes are in it.
I admit I'm a moron and couldn't get lm_sensors to install/work correctly on my system, so I sheepishly am hoping that it will eventually just show up in a newer rpm so that it is easy for the morons like myself.
Other than that and security patches, I don't really need/want anything new. I don't use any GUI (meaning non-terminal) on my linux systems, so I don't really care about any new stuff in there.
Maybe I'll just hold out until version 12. I hear that one is coming out in a month - it will be even better than Mac OS 10.x because it is one more!
(and yes, I'm joking -- see my other post in here)
There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
was that so hard?
Sounds like a scam to get more people to register with RHN just so you can be the first on the block to have RH 9.
Debian is starting to look better every day.
The url says
http://www.redhat.com/mktg/rh9iso/
Which makes me believe it's a marketing (what else could "mktg" stand for?) stunt.
--- Sigmentation Fault - Comments Dumped
YellowDog offer early ISO's to people who pay as well, I guess it's a result of the fact that people mostly download GNU/Linux distros these days?
Check out MKDoc a mod_perl CMS
So I don't know if it's just me, but this is hardly front-page news.
grisha.org
Historically, RedHat has always guaranteed that all .x releases will be binary compatible with their major number. However, I don't recall any major changes with gcc & glibc. Is there some other change that would make this release not be binary compatible with RH8?
Looking for a computer support specialist for your small business? Check out
on the same plane as Mandrake maybe?
General user perception might matter more to them as they attempt to get the less savvy crowd more involved.
Blogging because I can...
It's just a marketing ploy. They should get rid of the number system altogether and just go to Microsoft's system of "constantly charging money every year even if we don't release any software."
Now we have to bump all the variants up one major number...
I really think we could have seen kernel 2.6 before a 9.0 came out, or, at least readiness for it.
Anyone know if RH 9.0 will have the required tools already there for 2.[56].xx?
Compared to war, all other forms of human endeavor shrink to insignificance. God, how I love it. - Gen. George Patton
The difference between 8.x and the previous releases is that they actually got their .0 release right this time. Traditionally the .0 releases have had a number of major issues, but with 8.0, I've really been impressed with it. So no need to do some minor version upgrades I guess.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
That is because when you spend 3 days in dependency hell on a linux box, you dont consider it 'broken'.
If you have to reinstall something in windows, you consider it 'broken'.
You see, you linux guys like to redefine the words "working", "broken" and "uptime" when it comes to installing linux.
I wonder how soon this will affect the RedHat certification/training program? I just started taking the classes for 8.0...ugh.
I think the versioning is a marketing decision. It probably ties into Advanced Server and Advanced Workstation somehow as well.
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
Wouldn't any gap b/w availability to paid subscribers, etc. and ftp availability violate the GPL? Spirit or letter?
I've been *attempting* to use redhat 8 since it came out. In the amount of time that 8 has actually been released, I certainly can not imagine what the would actually in this new version to warrant the jump. I suppose I have to agree with the majority in this case... Redhat 9 is a marketing move. There are however, so many gripes about redhat 8... I can list at least a dozen major ones... perhaps redhat justifies this version jump by the mere fact that redhat 9 is what redhat 8 was supposed to be. (A full fledged multimedia enabled desktop [kde,gnome]).
Peter: I got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.
I've been using the beta version of this for a month now. Phoebe is the name of the beta if anyone is interested in seeing what might be changed as of the last update.
My impressions as a person who uses this as a desktop at home and is normally a Mandrake kind of user:
It is a very easy to use and install and stable distro. I don't like that they include almost no configuration tools. To make it a good desktop distro I had to download a lot of extra rpms because the cd's with the distro are packed with server/workstation rpms. Also, though not RedHat's fault, NVidia's glx driver doesn't work properly with the new kernel and some weird dis-optimizations to the code have to be done in order for it to work (as of mid Feb; haven't checked lately). This is an issue with all 2.5 and 2.4.20 and above kernels, IIRC.
It is very similar to 8.0 (but they might have changed some things in the last month). The biggest gripe I have is that they use GRUB as the bootloader, but have no configuration utility for it. I'm a LILO person, but I thought I'd install GRUB to see if it was better. The man pages weren't very helpful and RedHat includes nothing to help, either. I went back to LILO, but since RH has no priority for it, there was no graphical options for LILO, just text.
It works for what it is supposed to work for: servers and workstations. As a desktop user that wants to have a simple and easy distro, I switched to Mandrake 9.1 rc1.
IANAL, but I play one on
And release it as 9.1 without a 9.0. IBM does that with DB2, because apparently point-oh releases scare people away. It seems to me that version numbers for most things don't mean anything anymore. If you're going to just make up a number that sounds good to customers, then just name the release instead.
Do what Corel did, make your own distro. WordPerfect works with Corel Linux. But, with RedDrake Linux 6.9, it doesn't.
After being a loyal Redhat user since 1997 (When I switched from Slackware), I am probably going to move on to SUSE, or Debian, based on RH's crappy implementation of KDE. I am not going to pay good money ( Yes, I usually buy the box set) for a distro that does not include an up to date, correct implementation of KDE. And don't get me started on Apt get vs. RPM.
Greg
I always skip x.0 releases.
Does this mean I have to skip a second release?
Nine? NINE!!!!!!
n e
http://www.reelradio.com/philpott/index.html#ni
Toil is Stupid. Don't be Stupid.
I wonder what kind of non-distribution agreement the RHN subscribers have to agree to. If they don't have to agree to such a thing, I can't see any reason to release it to them first and the rest of the world a week later. Unless it's to save their own bandwidth by having the RHN-subscribers redistributing for them instead of having everyone jump directly to their server.
hahaha. I'll have to keep a copy of that mov somewhere handy.
I love redhat. Before you start flaming me, there are some reasons why. I'm not putting down your distrubition/OS of choice, but in my opinion RedHat is very, very nice. The installation has gone flawless everytime i've installed it. And look at the installation script for 8.x, its beautiful. And the desktops looking the same dosen't bother me. And its so snappy. I mean, wicked quick. RPM's aren't perfect by any means, but until we get something nice like Windows Update, or Lindows Click-N-Run we'll have to make due.
But anyways i just wanted to say i fully support RedHat
This seems to be a big break in the way they used to do things. "When it's ready!" In the past I have heard that line countless times on the beta maliing lists.
.1 increase or an integer release, but i forget what they are.
Also, regarding the jump to 9, i think there are certian criteria they define to determine whether it's a
-- Knowledge shared is power lost. -- Aleister Crowley
It is vital to their business to skip the dot releases. Microsoft have already released the version 95 of their OS years ago. And now they already have the version 2000!!! The free software is loosing the technological war.
It's from an excellent south park show.
Karma: The shiznight, mostly because I am the Drizzle.
to Plan 9
This is what a friend of mine had to say:
.x upgrade? Even Adobe has fallen into this trap releasing 2+ versions of photoshop in a short time"
"RH is getting caught up in the "one up trap". Companies are trying so hard to be the "newest and best" that they are releasing broken software just to "get it to market". Look back at any of the latest software from anyone. Has there been anything so "revised" that warrents a full digit upgrade or even a
Ok, they change the major version when the API changes. Fair enough. But 8 wasn't ready for prime time and I'll bet 9 won't be either if it has enough low level changes to require a new major. Will a new stable version ship before 7.3 goes unsupported on Dec 31? Perhaps, but it sure won't leave much time to test and deploy.
If they are going to pitch themselves as "Commercial Linux" they really need to act like it. And no, their "Enterprise" offerings are only going to be applicable to a very small customer base, the ones who would be buying Solaris or HP-UX; i.e. Enterprise computing applications. not the computing lab or departmental server market. If they are departing the small/medium/education markets I really wish they would announce that so we could be putting energy into investigating alternatives NOW instead of when the crunch hits Dec 31.
Democrat delenda est
Red Hat, is that a brand of condoms?
--Drunk as in Beer
First rule of ANY update (for ANYTHING), wait and see what happens with the rest unless you KNOW what you are updating for (and need (not want) it)! If you jump on every update just because it is there, then you jolly well deserve what you get.
And I also would like to note that you didn't give any examples of your horrendous pain. I think the most recent screw up from MS in the update category was Site Server (now defunct), which was a while ago.
It is possible that your server has odd software that could cause unexpected results, then again, if you have said software, see the first point.
But, in all possibility, your P2P's spyware is the cause. From such an "insigtful" comment, I would bet the latter is true.
Putz.
I never though it would happen that I would perceive Mandrake as the "Stable" linux distribution. With this jump to "9.0" redhat is going for an obvious cash grab. Is there anything left that redhat can take out (mp3, mpeg, kde)... how about the "[" key?
*Just* after I get my video drivers (NVIDIA), mouse (Logitech) and soundcard drivers (SB Live)all up and running.
I'm running RH8.0 ATM, and am a big newb to linux. I am wondering what one needs to do after an 'upgrade' install when they have previous drivers/settings already installed/setup:
Does the 'upgrade' ape all my settings?
I have read here that I will need to wait for new NVidia drivers to come out, then go through the hassle of figuring out how to install these. I'm guessing I need to uninstall my 'old' drivers (as per nvidia's readme) *before* I would install the new ones?
My Logitech mouse just needed a bit of tweaking to get working in X, in XF86Config. Will this setting be gone?
I *just* finished figuring out how to compile/install/blah some drivers (http://opensource.creative.com) for my SB Live! 5.1 Platinum. Will these needed to be uninstalled before I 'upgrade'? Or perhaps removed and reinstalled *after* the 'upgrade'?
Hope someone can answer these, and lend a calming hand. Thanks!
Yeah, I agree. Red Hat Linux's unified desktop is really great. I have never seen Linux look like this. And you can customize it as well :)
I use both Red Hat 8.1b3 and Slack 9. And I like both! This year is the everything9 year. Hehe Red Hat 9 and Slack 9. What I don't like is Debian... too confusing and many package problems. RPM and TGZ are just OK for me.
n0dez -- www.n0dez.com
Great timing, i *just* switched over my kde to kde3.1 via apt-get. I'm not really sure how I feel about redhat's odd way of grabbing their revenue stream. I do like the fact that they have a slew of people paid working on the code but the up2date thing makes me really unhappy. I'm very close to making a redhat wrapper (in the same way that mandrake was a redhat wrapper at some point) that is basically redhat/rpm compatibility based but w/out some of the annoying revenue stream add-ons. The obvious one is that is officially moving redhat over to apt Right now there are only a few redhat apt-mirrors, but I would be more than willing to host a mirror and it will easily allow us and anyone else to keep the security updates at least "up2date" w/out paying per year per node. The other thing to look at is synaptic which is also a really nice gui for apt as well and puts what i've always liked about debian on the redhat platform.
:)
,synaptic and having a slew of decent apt-mirror sites would be an obvious and simple fix
Also redhat doesn't seem to be doing very well w/ kde. I am not sure whether it is because kde3.0 was really buggy or something happened w/ the 7.3->8.0 transition but I wouldn't mind a redhat that was "un-unified." At the very least, a kde/konqueror that was usable then, since many people think the unified thing is a good thing
Anyway maybe talking to a few people and seeing if it would be possible to collect a cd of non-gpl but "open" developer software (Kylix 3, intel compilers 6.0 (kind of a weird license)) would also be nice addons.
At the very least I think defaulting/forking redhat to include apt
the security updating issue w/ the current incarnation of redhat. Its also I think obvious that redhat will never release the up2date server source and have obvious reasons for not incorporating apt into the offical distribution so it may require the redhat' wrapper trick to get apt in there.
In any case, i'm curious as to what you guys think, one the one hand i think its a bit "assholish" as it deprives them of one of their obvious revenue streams, on the other hand I think for those of us who run clusters or whatnot or even want to auto-redistribute custom software onto our own nodes having access to the equivalent of our own up2date software (which apt is a better version of to be honest) is a reasonable task, and furthermore wrapping around redhat (like mandrake did) is somewhat what open source is all about as well, especially as redhat and redhat-compatible rpms/source(i.e. ati/nvidia/vmware drivers) is a bit ubiquitous.
-bloosqr
I've bought a few distributions in the past, RedHat 5.x and 6.x, most recently SuSE 7.3 and 8.1. (Don't bother wasting your money...) I'm thinking about buying a copy of RedHat 9 when it comes out. I'm a shareholder in RedHat and want to support the company with my dollars.
However, I notice that despite the $150 you pay for a retail copy of Professional, you really don't get any support. If I remember correctly, 8.0 Pro came with 1 year of RHN, 9.0 comes with 1 or 2 months (!) of the same?? RedHat isn't the only company to do this. SuSE isn't much better, and they don't even allow ISO downloads.
Why do companies like RedHat punish their retail customers, when they still allow anyone with a broadband connection to download their ISO's? Why should I bother shelling out $150 for three or four CD's?
Anyone know what you get with the 9.0 RHN subscription? Do you download ISO's, or do they mail them out? I see they mention no documentation, so I'm assuming the software & updates are online only?
Does RedHat have a reasonably cheap RHN option for someone with 1-5 RedHat systems in a home network, or do you end up paying for each installation. Looks like 9.0 RHN will be about $60 per workstation. (I know I can update manually, but I'd rather pay RedHat the money if I'm getting something for it.)
ok what really annoyed me was the ABI change
I can see why they did it !
the gcc 2.96 was better but the amount of stuff that it broke means that it was worse it was a kind of thing that you just have to call and take the flack one way or another
lets hope that the ABI stays the same and no more C++ problems come up...... to quote
On the following i386-based systems GCC 3.2.1 broke the C ABI wrt. functions returning structures: Cygwin, FreeBSD (GCC 3.2.1 as shipped with FreeBSD 5.0 does not have this problem), Interix, a.out-based Linux and NetBSD, OpenBSD, and Darwin. GCC 3.2.2 reverts this ABI change, and thus restores ABI-compatibility with previous releases (except GCC 3.2.1) on these platforms.
regards
John Jones
p.s. I think war in IRAQ is silly
I bought Redhat 8.0 a few weeks ago (it had been out for some time before that, of course) and have been pretty impressed with the completeness of the package and the work they have done on adding some consistency to the configuration apps bundled.
However, I can't really see what Redhat are going to put in this release to justify a +1 version upgrade.
I agree with other posters that frequent version changes will threaten the release of 'industry standard' apps on the RH Linux platform, and as such Linux in general because of the perceived volatility of the environment.
However, strong sales of 8.0 might have given Redhat the impression that consumers look favourably on 'integer' releases, when really I think 8's popularity was almost entirely due to the well-publicised 'out of the box' antialiased fonts and UI work. If it was called 7.4 it would still have been very popular for these reasons.
It would be nice to see Redhat give a clear rationale behind it's numbering scheme and clear up the confusion that obviously reigns in this area.
I gots ta ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long
Folks, this is getting silly... Next time, RH2000, RH2003, RH2009...
Anyone have a list of what's new in the new distribution? Basically, I want to know what's different before I decide whether I'd even want to upgrade, let alone get it early.
eskwayrd = m^2c^4
No, they figure that anyone doing that can afford the $349 for the basic version of RedHat Enterprise Linux ES, which has a guaranteed five-year lifetime.
This page is kind of a shock to me, too[*], but they aren't abandoning enterprise people at all.
[*] - this is surprising in at least three ways:
Let's not leave out the following phrase from the link you posted:
At certain times, Red Hat may extend errata maintenance for certain popular releases of the operating system.
Translation: If you are willing to pay for the support, we're willing to support you.
There is nothing wrong for a company to essentially say - look, we're focusing on maintaining the best code that's available rather than spending much of our time back-porting fixes to old applications.
What this means for most people who use Red Hat Linux (the free-download version), is that to stay with the game, you'll need to upgrade at least once per year.
Not a bad deal considering what all you get...
Ayup
Because 8.0 worked perfectly version 9.0 add those bugs you got use to.
Mabey not
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
It just really seems like redhat is trying to become the next M$. Obviously in a few months they're going to end free updates, and now this crap. So basically now we're going to have reinstall redhat every couple of months to stay up to date, becuase they're no longer going to to update their products that are a year old, and it seems that with every release they are going to break binary compatitbility. Please, someone point me in a sane direction for a good easy to update linux distro. I really can't decided what I want to run. I was thinking redhat 8.1, but I'm not sure if I want to deal with them much longer. I may give debian another shot, and hmmmmm FreeBSD 4.8 supposed to come out today....very tempting. I want to hear from people, what are you running, what do you like. Please help me out! P.S. I'm not afraid of the command line and a ports system would be very nice.
Geez, wouldn't it be funny if it got delayed a day, or maybe 9.1 comes out the day after. :)
-- iCEBaLM
Redhat seem to have forgotten that many people won't use a *.0 release...now I've got to wait till October to upgrade my 7.3 box :(
/. , but you guys kind of terminally pissed him off):
Also, many commerical apps - for instance Franz's Allegro CL, which I use all day - won't support 9.0 for a while (they've just got around to supporting 8.0 this month).
Doing this to be at the same number as Slack??? Why not just switch to a sideways 8 and be done with that lame sort of one-upmanship already?(yeah, you're right - Volkerding would release "Slackware Infinity plus 2" - so then you'd release "Redhat Infinity plus Infinity").
Finally, a note to the RH people reading (bero-RH used to respond to all of my posts here on
WTF is up with Metacity?
You put a window manager on your distro that doesn't even have a webpage? Many of us loyal RH users had gotten quite used to Sawfish. So used to it, in fact, that I had used GIMP to create many of my own themes.
So I was unpleasantly surprised, upon installing 8.0, to find that you guys had once again skipped a version number. What were you thinking? Didn't you you guys learn anything from the gcc-2.96 fiasco? (read the very bottom of the page). With 8.0 you've done it again - SF's sourceforge site has the most recent version at 1.2, yet somehow something named sawfish-2.0 made it into your distro. I frankly wouldn't care if your "2.0" worked; but whatever genius in NC decided to "upgrade" it forgot to also upgrade the sawfish-themer. The problem is that you also changed your entire font structure, so that SF2 barfed at my TTF bankgothic fonts. And then I had no themer to change it. Editing theme.jl by hand is a pain.
Now don't get me wrong. Metacity is a great WM. The fact that it uses XML is quite cool. And Havoc is a great programmer. But the fact that you switched WM's on us, and switched to essentially a wholly undocumented WM (there are pages now but none at release and really few for the first few months) is unacceptable.
Now I've kind of gone off on a tangent here, but I'm using a simple example to illustrate a very important point: Whomever is making the UI decisions at RH needs to stop it. I submit to you that some software companies do this thing called research - they find out what their users are using, and then make their products acceptable to them. Yeah, I know, I'm one of few people who customizes his own saw themes. So at this point I will also remind you that with 8.0 you took the terminal icon off of the desktop and the menubar and hid it 3 or 4 levels deep in the menu.
And a litany of other things - my point is that each release should have me sighing relaxing sighs of "Oh, this is nice," but instead every April and October I find myself feeling ever more uncomfortable and having to re-learn your entire distro. And don't tell me this is "innovation" - I know progress when I see it, and this isn't it.
On a better note, for the day or two that I did use 8.0, the fonts were beautiful - if you guys can hurry up and create an upgrade that I can live with, I'll love you for it.
That's why they sell their Advanced Server version
I hope Redhat completely rewrite Disk Druid (as used with the installer). I never thought it was possible to pack so much aggravation into such a small space, but it has been done, and quite handily.
I hope they get a stable & mature 9.x release out by the end of the year, like 9.1 or 9.2, before the EOL cycle for 7.x systems.
My 7.3 system is pretty mature. Moving from a well-patched x.3 system to a immature x.0 system seems like a potential can of worms.
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
Only morons fall into dependancy hell. Real sysadmins have at least a jr. programmer level of programming ability.
Nope, but I'll wager that they want to encourage you to purchase one of their new Enterprise offerings.
Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS
Red Hat Enterprise Linux ES
Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS
Upgrade from 8 to 9 in just a few months with "Mr. Big cream" Just rub this on your product and voila! Add a whole new version number in no time!
Sorry, its what I saw when you said "from 8 to 9in..."
This means that, going by the "never use a .0 RH convention", the latest stable release will still be 7.3.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
MS released a security patch which blue screened certain systems just last week.
Microsoft went from windows 3.1 to windows 95!
Then 98, and then 2000!
Then they jumped down to 10p (Xp), whatever the hell that is...
and the next one will go all the way up to 2003!
Well another nail in the coffin.
RH8 has an EOL of 12/31/03 and this new version will give me an EOL of 03/31/04. I got several clients running RH 7&8 that I was looking at moving off to other distros or I upgrade NOW to RH9 and delay the next "forced" upgrade for 3 months. This is not going to encourage me to stay with RH. We need longer EOL times.
Slashdot, home of supporters of free software, free music, and free speech.Except for Moderators that disagree with you.
My RH 9 beta has a grub configuration util, it is located in /bin/vi
That is totally FUD, mod_perl was included in the last rawhide snapshot and unless redhat has reversed itself will ship with the next release
8 6/ mod_perl-1.99_07-5.i386.html
http://fr2.rpmfind.net/linux/RPM/rawhide/1.0/i3
Does anyone know if and when RedHat will be releasing a distro for x86-64? I can't find any mention of it on their web site except for a vague press release from last year.
I would like to observe that Sun uses non-dotted releases since Solaris 7. This is done to smoothen the upgrade pipeline. In particular, Red Hat suffer from "x.0 is crap" perception, which they seek to change.
The binary compatibility in the "integer release number" situation is handled with a "compatibility bracket", which acts in a simple way. When a feature is going to be changed or removed, a notice is posted with a release, and the change itself is done in the next release. Thus, the two release bracket. I cannot guarantee that this is what actually will happen in case of Red Hat, but it may.
The more flexible way to handle compatibility recognizes that compatibility is a complicated phenomena, and not something that we can "guarantee". I, for once, have RPMs which were built on 5.1, an they continue to work just fine. On the other end of the spectrum, an application may concievably depend on an aspect of implementation which becomes a subject of an immediate adjustment with a security errata. The recent ptrace update can break applications, for instance. This has something to do with the nature of software we run, and is not specific to RHL, RHEL, or even Linux.
Speaking of RHEL, it does address a split between customers with requirements for fast development and those who are more conservative. In particular, ISVs uniformly rally in support of it. I am talking about Veritas, IBM (with WebSphere and Java in general), SAP, and companies with more esoteric or niche specific products.
In the past, MDK was the refuge for people who wanted everything latest while staying with generally RH type of Linux. With unfortunate events that transpired recently, it may be better if RH picked the pace a little on the RHL side, as opposed to RHEL.
Just to let you know what kind of conservatism in RHEL we are talking here, the latest QU for RHEL 2 was shipping with kernel 2.4.9-e.14. Maintaining a codebase so ancient is not a piece of cake, please trust me on that. If RHL side of the house tried to work on similar level of binary compatibility, they would not be able to accomplish a third of what they do.
-- Xxxxx
Any idea when Kevin's Red Hat Uber Distribution
will have a clean-ed up and enhanced variation on RedHat 9 out??"My opinions are my own, and I've got *lots* of them!"
What it means is, starting with RH9, you have 12 months of errata. You'll be able to use RH9 until March 31st, 2004, a year after release.
This *is* inconvenient, because it means, at minimum, taking a machine down to kickstart it every year. THAT is annoying as hell, especially since you aren't going to deploy RH9 site-wide for at least 2-3 months (shortening the releases "lifetime" by 3 months).
I thought this was a huge problem until I looked at their ES level enterprise solution. Since enterprise entitlements are $120 anway, paying $230 for an OS that doesn't expire for 3-5 years seems perfectly reasonable.
If your systems are mission-critical enough to NEED to be left stable for *years*, then going with Advanced Server makes more sense than any other distro - they stabalize the platform for 18 months between releases, minimizing your QA and upgrade time significantly.
Why must you upgrade at all? It sounds to me like you have your system working well now, and I assume it's doing what you need. Why, then, would you bother with the upgrade to RH9? Is there something you absolutely have to have that is in RH9 and not available otherwise? I guess, "Because I want to upgrade," is a valid reason, but consider thinking about why you feel you must upgrade before you do.
The rebels get a leader who stands a chance, yet all the peasants hate him once he rises to power....
Ave Molech Setting
Granted they are a big company but what does the change log say? How much has changed? Do they want to keep up with the top dogs, Mandrake, Suse, and Slack? Any how a bigger number doesn't mean it's a better product, if that was the case then MS would be the best (Server 2003). Any how I don't see what has changed to make it a major improvement; I guess I'll just have to wait it out.
This SIG pulled due to lack of funding. (This damn war is costing too much!)
Also in the 8.x series redhat does not ship apache 1.3x or perl 5.6. Only the latest 2.0 with perl 5.8 which no mod-perl modules is available.
After an install alot of downloading is diffinetly required.
Perl 5.8 works great here for mod_perl applications. Anyone using mod_perl in a production environment compiles from the mod_perl and apache source anyhow, so I don't see how this is an issue.
Going from past expierence I've found that you really have to wait for a Redhat x.2 release to be stable and actually trust it on a live server. I can't help but think that 9.0 is going to be unstables. I would like to think that it will really be 8.1 and that 9.0 is for marketing only
Rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
They refer to the April 7'th release date for non-RHN subscribers, but don't have any option to pre-order the new version. Doubt I'll order a copy, but that sure would have been a good idea.
I wasn't aware LILO had a configuration utility.
:)
There are a few configuration utilities for grub. Vi, Emacs, Pico, etc, etc...take your pick. It's pretty easy to figure out how things work, I think. And you don't even have to remember to rerun grub after you edit the file!
LILO was nice enough, did the job just fine. I like grub better. *shrugs*
> Do they not realize people count on linux
> in an enterprise environment, where anything
> beyond a few minutes downtime is very bad??
Which is probably why most people who have
honest-to-goodness enterprise environments
don't run Linux in the first place.
Kent
Mandrake suddenly renames 9.1RC2 to Mandrake 10...
But, will version 9 come with working java ? As in the run time engine ? Even if i buy it in the store ? With Mandrake & Red Hat I've been fighting with Sun's java rpm, trying to get it to work with mozilla but no dice. Found out about BlackDown, installed that.. and still no dice,.. i've tried linking directories into other directorties in mozilla (but still no dice). Are commercial linux distro's these days crippled (completely as in, read & do it yourself) when it comes to java run time engines not being part of the distro ? or is that only the free GPL versions you can DL ? or is it a more wide thing even among commercial linux?
I mean, i know windows xp doesn't come with java anymore installed from the boot cd due to politics with Sun some time back. Is it the same with linux distro's too ?
"There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness."- Friedrich Nietzsche
I just started with linux about a month ago. (Actually this is my second attempt. My first attempt failed when some black magic, aka X configuration exploded in my face with RH5 some years back...) So after reading up on the distros I picked RH8. I installed it, recompiled the kernel, configured x, got most drivers to work and almost customized my system. (apt-get is great, and I'd like to see that in RH natively) But now, new version! And I start hearing about binary incompatibility and such. I am a programmer with a CS degree, but when I hear that, and being a beginner in linux/unix, I become very uncomfortable. I am now seriously thinking if I want to upgrade to RH9 or if I should move to another distro. I don't want to have an antiquated system, and I don't want to spend what little free time I have rebuilding a system which will be old in another two month. I wander why it is necessary to rebuild a system which is so modular. Why not have an update service which will do that without a new version. (many small updates VS few huge updates)
:) )
Can anyone suggest something, a word of caution or a guiding light? ( or a distro
I hope this will not be my second failed attempt at linux.
Free speech is getting expensive...
Could this be some type of version number race against Linux Mandrake?
There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
most of us won't be able to afford it.
-- Lemmy
most of the redhat major numbers are due to libc changes.. what libc version is include with the 9 beta?
It's not like 7 came out, then 8, then 7.(123). Red Hat didn't fill in the point versions after the fact.
Red Hat got rid of that damned Extras menu! That's gotta warrant at least three version hops!
Note to M1-ers: a curt but otherwise insightful message is not "Flamebait" or "Troll".
redhat laboratories releases linux9 advanced server pro champion edition(tm)
redhat laboratories has announced today the future release of 'linux9 advanced server pro champion edition(tm)'. redhat scientists have announced that this will be the most numerically advanced version of linux ever sold. by abandoning older 8.x technology (found on previous releases), redhat has been able to accelerate the versioning capabilities of linux by nearly 10 percent.
numerically advanced versioning technology is an important step in bringing redhat to the enterprise. many enterprise customers, who run high-availability servers on big iron hardware, demand the stability and maturity that can only come from numerically advanced version numbers. moving to linux9 puts redhat in direct competition with sun microsystems' (SUNW) solaris operating system, which has been sporting version 9 release enumeration for over a year.
in other news, redhat has announced that linux9 advanced server pro champion edition(tm) will be distributed in a six dvd set, that includes 2 dvd's containing the basic distribution, and 4 dvd's of pre-compiled packages. additional dvd's supporting non-x86 architectures may also be available for purchase.
With all the bellyaching over RH's enhancements, you wouldn't think that there were about a thousand competing distros out there just waiting to do whatever these users want.
Why not actually wait until they formally announce the product and see what they have to say?
I would hazard a guess that RedHat will take the time between certs and the major number incrementing into account. Historically, they've handled new major releases based on Binary Compatability and new feature-sets. Honestly, they would have no reason to annoy all of their certified folks, as RHCE's are the best proponents of their software and service!!! Rather than b**** and moan on slashdot, why not wait the whole week or two *until it is actually released* and see if they release an updated policy that states what they're going to do about it? I've been an RHCE since 1999, and they've been very fair with me. Yes, I'm biased as I *am* an RHCE, but since this affects *my* certification levels, and I'm perfectly willing to wait a whole week or two to get data BEFORE I complain, can't you all do the same? Sheesh, so many people complain before they have anything to complain about.
I'm not exactly sure how that relates to the Red Hat Network (which has pretty much become the "pay for timely upgrades to our free operating system" club), but I felt it was worth saying.
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'
That pretended to be a Redhat message, but came and tried to send me to a URL to confirm my address that was on another domain. Here's the link to it (the email message, not the link that will confirm mine 2000 as slashdotters click it).
Because you write to the libraries, most importantly the c library. Glibc and X11 haven't changed in years. GTK has changed a bit, but that's the nature of software. You see the same on every OS. Finally, people who write software in their free time seem to have no problems "keeping up", so why would a company that has tons of capital?
BSD systems make great servers, but they make only so-so desktop systems. Most disgruntled RH users are better off trying Mandrake.
Serious question - will RedHat:
Does anybody know?
I'll get flamed for saying that, but BlueCurve was a very stupid idea, IMO.
RedHat releases quarterly earnings this week.
snapshot yes but in the offical physce 8.0 distro no.
If they do release RH9, it would be nice if they would release 8.1 at the same time. Even if its just RH8 with all the errata and security updates, it would be nice to have a solid distribution I can install from CD and not have to download 100's of megabytes in patches post install.
Care to shed some light on the seemingly unaware shadow-dwellers why "Obviously in a few months they're going to end free updates"?
Or is this pure speculation?
Scott
Here's the problem with software release numbering today: the numbers are getting too high. Too many release numbers in a product's history, and I think consumers will start to wonder what's wrong with the product that they have to release a new version all the time. It's all about marketing. Microsoft knew this years ago, when they switched from Windows 3.x to Windows 95, adopting a year-based numbering system, then the letters XP, etc. At heart it may be Windows NT 5.1, but XP makes it sound better and makes the average consumer think "I gotta get me some of that!" Apple is going to have a problem with upcoming releases of their OS. OS X was a great name, but where do you go from there? OS XI? OS X.2? They'll need a new marketing scheme. Red Hat, Mandrake, and all the rest would do well to reconsider their numbering systems and switch to a year/month-based concept, especially since there are point releases of Linux distros so frequently. If they keep the same system for another ten years, we'll eventually have Red Hat 20, Mandrake 23.2, SuSE 19.5, etc. That just seems unworkable over the long term.
Lousy minor setbacks! This world sucks! -- Homer Simpson
Complete and utter bullshit. Give me a break. I don't see how you can call manually resolving dependency problems when installing RPMs easier and safer than a Windows Update.
The reason I'm asking is because I saw a post on Slashdot a while ago about doing just that, but I haven't been able to find it again. I think it involved downloading and compiling the binaries of the latest version manually, changing the registration info, and then running the Red Hat update. Is that right?
In any case, should I even updgrade? Are there any additional hardware requirements for 9.0? (I have a low end AMD Duron 800, 128 Mb of RAM, and 20 gigs of storage) How do I transfer all my KDE mail and my porn collection? Will I be forced to make a backup? I hate doing backups. I also hate configuring and compiling Linux gunzip archives, although I am finally getting used to it.
This is mis-guided on RedHat's part.
.0 releases. So this means I will entirely skip the 8 series.
I don't use
If this becomes their official long-term policy, I'll be skipping redhat altogether.
"that's not encryption - it's a new perl script that I'm working on..." - from some Matrix parody
Yes it is in the official 8.0 distro. I'm running Apache (2.0.40-11) and mod_perl (1.99_05-3) on the machine I'm typing this from. Both these are from the rpms RedHat provided on the install disks and updated as necessary with RHN. I will admit that some modules don't go so smooth and require research a tweak or two, but with that out of the way its been stable and treating me well.
They are just trying to catch up with OS X.
Does anyone know if sharing the iso files on a P2P network would be a violation of RHN policy? It seems to me that they release to the RHN people 7 days early to allow for more painless downloading.
If not, would any RHN subscibers be willing to share RH9 and post hashes when ready?
Wrong point.
Linux: modularity alows solving of dependency hell. So few days of patching with knowing it will work in the end is acceptable without definition broken
In case of Windows: if Windows get broken reinstall is the only option. Yes reinstalling a system and losing information is considered broken. If option to correct problems exists I don't consider Win broken. Then again install one piece of Software and uninstall it. Software stayed on disk in 90% at least partially. That makes installer broken
Vocabulary:
working... Thing is not broken, or at least option to correct exists
broken... No option to correct without losing information
uptime... Time passed from the last reboot, on windows some service packs need reboot so getting great uptime with patching is not possible
by the way... uptime on my server is 3 years now. On my desktop 5 months, I never reboot
Signature Pro version 1.13.2-3 release 83.5 beta3try7 after-breakfast edition
I am not overly pleased about this. The changes from 7.2 to 8.0 were not overly significant in my opinion, and 9.0 isn't going to be that different from 8.0. How could it be? There has not been enough time between them for major kernel changes or radical security modelling to alter, etc.
Click here or here.
Easy. Redhat update
Signature Pro version 1.13.2-3 release 83.5 beta3try7 after-breakfast edition
You may want to take a look at Gentoo (www.gentoo.org). Fully customized and has a freebsd-like ports system.
What they need to focus on after the unified desktop project is pretty much done(they should provide other themes as well as blue curve) is to make GUIs for programs, most people don't like to type and point and click is easier even if it doesn't give you all the options, a GCC UI could be cool, Apple has one for their compilier, why shouldn't we, though I would still use the text one a UI would make it less intimidating for lets say Dick Blick(not the art supply store).
Heh. Red Hat has funded a huge amount of work on GCC, GNOME, Glibc, XFree86 etc. Go back to GCC 2.7.2, XFree86 3.3.6 etc. if you don't like them.
Or sod off and die.
and it solves dependencies for you, and confirms to download it as well. I'd trust Red Hat updating my system more then Microsoft would you?
I have been asked to research Ensim virtual hosting product, which "requires Redhat 7.2".
I want to know how long that version will continue to have security updates released for it etc.
Information nowhere to be seen on the RH website that I could see.
RG
I wonder if RH will have something to say about Office Depot's new policy. The linked site gives a list of retailers that will carry RH9 on April 7th. However according to this article, OD will be doing away with anything computer related not stamped "Windows XP Certified". ---- snip ---- Get your copy of Red Hat Linux 9. Beginning April 7, 2003 at the: redhat.com store Or these retail locations: * Best Buy * CompUSA * Fry's Electronics * Microcenter * Staples * Office Depot ---/snip---
Enterprise Service Entitlement 10 $96/yr
Basic Service Entitlement 0 $60/yr
Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS Developer Edition n/a $60/yr
Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS Basic Edition n/a $179/yr
Red Hat Enterprise Linux ES Basic Edition n/a $349/yr
Note that if you have a bunch of servers at 7.2/7.3, not only do you have to have them offline for many hours each for the update/install process, you have to go from paying $60/96 a year, to paying $349 a year (yes, I called them to verify the $349 was the only option for ES to be on the RHN).
MY GOD. I asked what the option was to get just updates - there is none. You have to get support. I don't want support. Note that the $349 only covers installation and hardware support anyway, so...in subsequent years, its useless (cause what the hell hardware support are they going to give, esp beyond installation?).
Having RHN costs jump from 3.5-6 times as much as current, with no added value...that's a problem. Does M$ charge $349 a year to download updates? Nope. Note that its still the same set of tools, same everything. Redhat isn't reinventing the wheel here, they're just putting it in a different box.
Again, I'll just probably set up my own update server, or move to another service. Its just odd to be forced to do that.
because it requires a 2.5.x kernel to function.
See this newsgroup for details. (don't worry about the expired https certificate)
Please don't start comparing RedHat to Microsoft... There are some truths that can clear up a lot of these misconceptions...
1) RedHat releasing this as a major version number is consistent with their numbering schemes in the past and is likely not a marketing plot. RedHat does major number versioning when binary compatibility is broken between versions. The Native POSIX Thread Libraries used in the latest beta Phoebe broke binary compatibility with a lot of applications. Thus, a new major number is warranted.
2) RedHat has an interesting challenge in that it must balance the "release early, release often" philosophy to satisfy those of us who like having cutting edge distros with the need for corporations to have some longevity in their releases. RedHat has found a good balance here. These consumer releases are going to continue to be released every six months to satisfy those who want its raw power. They will continue to be free, and RHN update services will continue to be free (though recently they've asked for about ten seconds of your time to complete a five question marketing survey). These six-month releases will continue to have same QA process as always. RedHat is willing to continue to invest so much into these freely downloadable versions because the feedback they get from them helps them work on the slower release versions. Redhat has said this more than once during a recent thread on the phoebe list.
Please don't start villifying RedHat. They do a lot of good for the whole Linux community, pay many of the best developers of our favorite projects, and give Linux a wider acceptance in the RealWorld (tm) which helps all of us.
-jag
http://starboard.flowtheory.net/
And you use rawhide on production boxes? Not in my shop, you don't.
I know I sure wouldn't want MY company to become the next MS ...
---- snip ----
Get your copy of Red Hat Linux 9.
Beginning April 7, 2003 at the:
redhat.com store
Or these retail locations:
---/snip---
Sorry about the malformed first post...
I swear. These huge version number jumps seem like big dick contests.
I was disappointed when slackware joined that, and hell they're already at 9.
Not that it really matters to me, after all I'm a Gentoo whore now.
This seems insanely silly, because we'll be at versions 20 of distros that are playing the Version Number Cock War game(tm).
-- Note: If you don't agree with me, don't bother replying. I won't read it.
"I don't like that they include almost no configuration tools. "
, Users/Groups,Disk managment,System log viewing,Firewall,Date&Time,Soundcard, etc. Not to mention the standard GUI config tools for fonts, and configuring your desktop that come with Gnome or KDE.
M anual/ref-guide/s1-grub-whatis.html
M anual/
Must be a different "special" version of Red Hat you used. There are GUI config tools for the Keyboard,Mouse,Network/Internet,Graphics,Printing
There are a ton of gui config tools in Red Hat. Maybe there happens to be one or two you miss from Mandrake, but to try and argue there are "no configuration tools" is just an outright lie.
Regarding Grub you should have a looked at Red Hat's excellant documentation on their website. Simply typing in grub on Red Hat's main page would have brought you here where you can learn all you want about installing and configurating grub. http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-8.0-
Stop by here as well for a whole bunch of free well done manuals http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-8.0-
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
Because I gave up using Linux after Red Hat reached a new level of uselessness along with the other Linux distros with 7.2. After seeing the mess (and waste of time), I never touched Linux again. --- Something to think about - With all the time one spends dating, love-making etc.. wheres the time for linu... uh, umm.. well... i forgot im talking to long haired linux geeks.
Red Hat 9? I use Red Hat 8.1b3 and Slack 9 and love both of them. n0dez == www.n0dez.com
Honestly, GRUB is not hard to configure. There are plenty of examples out there - I just did a google search for 'grub example redhat' and the first link that came up was an offical Red Hat walkthrough, including setting up multiple kernels and Windows partitions.
Red Hat auto-configures GRUB anyhow; I don't see what the griping is about.
did anyone else notice the sender and reply-to addresses? they're both dev-null@rhn.redhat.com whereas normal redhat emails are from rhn-admin.
early april's fool?
I suspect this author is referring to RH's new "demo" version of their RH Network update tools. Now to use the RH Network to download OS updates you have to either pay for an account, or fill out a (short) survey every 60 days.
RH hasn't said that they'll discontinue to demo service (or prevent people from unlimited extensions) but it's not unreasonable to think that they'll keep restricting it's utility at the very least.
When I read your subject I thought you were going to say Red Hat is the same as Microsoft, which is not true. I agree with you. Red Hat has become sucessesfully thanks to their hard work. No monopolies, ... And they well always have enough competency to face. And they aren't focused on working on their distro, they are focus on bringing Linux to the top!! RPM are used by many distros., etc
Don't hate big companies because are big. Don't buy a product because it comes from a big company such as Microsoft.
n0dez
You people keep saying this "Redhat == Microsoft" crap, and it's absolutely ridiculous.
There can NOT be a Microsoft of Linux.
Why is this so hard to understand?
At any given moment, if Redhat does ANYTHING which pisses off enough people, they will have created another market that can be easily filled by yet another Linux distro which touts Redhat compatibility. Mandrake didn't start at version 1, they started off at version 6, and this is because they could download Redhat 6 sources, do a recursive search and replace of all the packages to sub Mandrake for Redhat, recompile, and create a Redhat compatible distro.. (Ok, they did a little more than that, but you get my point.) They have a VERY thin line to walk, and the only thing that will keep them in business is producing good products. The differences between distros are negligible if someone else's offerings are significantly better than Redhat's.
As long as Redhat packages (and creates) GPL software, they can never become a Microsoft. This is the very reason I feel that I don't have to worry about Redhat - The reason many people hate the GPL is because it leans too far in favor of the end user and not enough towards corporations.
People who equate Redhat to Microsoft must not have looked at the GPL and the source to Redhat's GPLed contributions to free software.
Why do I keep typing pythong?
...is not at all driven by stable releases of the kernel, compiler, or c-libraries.
To find the proof of this, look no further than the glorious debacle of RedHat 7.0.
I for one have had enough; my next RedHat upgrade will be to either Debian or FreeBSD.
Check this out: http://www.gentoo.org/
;-)
I'm currently running RH 8, but I'm sick of having to always re-install RH to have more recent stuff.
So I'm in the process of switching to Gentoo
Lechter deserves a hater award. RH is releasing an updated product and it makes him angry.
Has anybody used Blender under Pheobe? And YAFRAY?
Thanks.
Microsoft is almost at version 2003. That makes RedHad 1994 versions behind. No one will take them seriously at such low numbers. And Gentoo? 1.4? Ha, hardly likely to be any good is it? All serious corporate men in suits know not that any version number less than 2000 is too old to be useful.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
does not follow.
that go-cart has four wheels
that lincoln escalade has four wheels
sure they are both powered vehicles, that will transport you from point a to point b.
but if you can't appreciate the differences, you are the biggest fucking idiot ever.
don't like it? don't use it. You are free to choose. However I guess Red Hat .0 releases as unstable ones is just a myth. I'm currently using Red Hat 8.1beta3 and works great. However I also like to use Slack 9 (I prefer it to Debian - got slack?)
n0dez
Where do you get $230? The entitlement may be $120 but the OS is, I think* $1500 (and is currently based on RH 7.x). It's more like you can get a two year old operating system for $1500 + 5*120 which Re d Had will support for 5 years (but which most other development has moved well beyone).
I think it does since KDE 3.1(Major change), Gnome 2.2(Major Change), Red Hat modified kernel 2.4.20(Major Change), XFree86 4.3.0-stable(Major as seen in beta 8.0.94), and Glibc 2.3.x(Major). I think there is enough to give such a number.
Well, maybe not specific to LILO, but something to make it easy would be nice. Mandrake has about three different gui tools to change the boot config, and I think Linuxconf is one of them.
As I'll write in reply to all of the replies to the parent, the config of GRUB isn't hard, it's getting it implemented. In LILO, you just edit the conf file and run the lilo command. That doesn't work in Grub, and after reading some man stuff I still couldn't figure out how to install the new boot config.
Yes, a simple internet search would've given me the answer I needed, but a tool that is right there for the average desktop user would be better.
IANAL, but I play one on
Yes, the next major release of Red Hat Linux will be Red Hat 9, but:
Something that nobody so far has picked up on, is that this is just the start of an entirely new versioning scheme. Red Hat's operating systems manager, Matt Wilson, has suggested that the release following 9 may not be 9.1 or 10, but rather something entirely different. This makes sense in the light of Red Hat's recent announcement of its Enterprise range. I guess Red Hat Linux may no longer exist in its current form, but rather branch into Red Hat Linux Enterprise and Red Hat Linux Personal, with a new version numbering scheme to boot, maybe starting again at 1, or maybe even based on the year it was released in.
RTFL (Read the freakin link).
From the excerpt of the link I posted in my earlier comment: Red Hat Enterprise Linux ES $349 (Basic Edition). Subtract the $120 for enterprise RHN and you get my numbers.
Yes, there are some config utils for some things. I haven't used that distro for a couple weeks now and haven't configured anything on it for a couple months, so I forget which ones I needed. I do know that the Mouse config wasn't great (never got the scroll to work), the Users/Groups config was hard to find (I think I just used adduser from the cli), Linuxconf wasn't there (I love that tool, whether real linux users think it sucks or not), I never figured out how to do Focus Follows Mouse in Gnome (but I didn't try too hard) when KDE got borked (it got borked after an attempt to reinstall the system with NVidia's stuff and I never got it back working again).
/System Config and /Other Tools/System Config... as well as /System and /Other Tools/System.
I just remember having a fairly easy time working with RH 8.0 and every Mandrake except 9.0 (9.1 is light years better), but Phoebe was a pain for me.
Maybe the GUI tools you are talking about are in 8.0, but were not yet included in the Phoebe release. Maybe they were and I couldn't find them in all the searching I did in the 4 different menu subsections that all have similar stuff. I'm not sure.
BTW, I hate that there is a seperate menu section for
As far as getting Grub working, you are right: there are a ton of great resources on the net to show me how to do it easily. The issue is that there is nothing included in the distro (that I found) to help. There is no simple point and click gui config for grub (or for LILO in RH), and the documentation is a bit confusing.
I was speaking from a desktop user's perspective. I have used Linux on the desktop pretty much exclusively for the past 3 years and am not a CS/CompEng/IT trained person. I just learn what I need to learn to get it working. GUI tools make life so much easier. I still prefer CLI for some stuff (all of the video editing I do), but system config that can seriously jack up my system is comforting to have done by a more knowledgable program.
IANAL, but I play one on
Or for a more featured (some say bloated but to them I say: nay!) configuration util you can try /bin/emacs /boot/grub/menu.lst
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This one goes *eleven*.
Nobody gives a fuck about your "shop", okay?
Yes that was speculation on my part. Sorry for the microsoft analogy, I'm just a little bit frustrated. I'm trying to find the "dream" distro and its not working out. I've been considering gentoo, but I don't think I have time right now. I'm writing this from a debian unstable install that I had on this harddive, it's not bad, but honestly I really like the way redhat spruces everything up and makes it look like an "OS" not just a bunch of GNU software thrown together. And yes I do know how much work redhat has added to GNU projects, i know in particular they have one guy they pay to hack mozila, so they're not all bad. I know they could never become m$, but just some of their policies like the survey every 60 days now, and no mp3 support built in(before you say it, yes i know apt and freshrpms.net can solve both these problems). I'm just hoping they don't take Suse's approach and not offer iso's or something. Anyways...I guess I'm eagerly awaiting RedHat 9's release...see what all the marketing hype is about.
1. It is *impossible* for Red Hat to be the next MS. For one, Microsoft
already supports *all* of their OS offerings longer than Red Hat does it base
distribution. Two, every application in Red Hat Linux is open source. Everyone
is free to fork a nearly exact copy (minus the "Red Hat" branding) of all of
its software.
2. If you are a small buisness, department, etc running Red hat Linux, you
should not be running the basic Red Hat distribution. Red Hat currently sells
a whole range of offerings, including Workstaton, Enterprise Server, and
Advanced Server (used to be Enterprise Edition). These come with lifecycles of
2 years or more and anywhere from 8x5 to 24x7 support. In otherwords, the
things that *real* professional corporate organizations *want*. If you are
joe-home-server, you don't make Red Hat money, so you're stuck with the basic
distro with 12 months of support. This is called capitalisim. It order for
someone to win, someone has to lose. In this case, it's you. Deal with it, or
move to a different distro. Workstation edition starts at $179. Server
editions start at $399. This is exactly on par with what *corporate* types pay
for server editions of Microsoft operating systems *without* all the extra
client-access-licenses needed to make them usable for all but the smallest
organizations.
3. Red Hat *only* increments the major version when they break binary
compatibility. When they break binary compatibility, the *always* increment
the major version number. This is a *feature*, not a *bug*. Red Hat does not
play the "lets increase our major version number to catch up with everyone
else" game. In the case of Red hat 9, they inlude the latest Gnome (2.2.0),
KDE (3.1), and glibc (2.3.2). They *can't* install that software without
breaking binary compatibility. If they didn't install all that software, you'd
all be bitching about how Red Hat was so out of date. The reason Red hat had to
go from 8.0 to 9.0 is because of all the cool software that's been developed
lately. If anything, blame the Gnome, KDE, and glibc developers for making
progress and creating desired new features. No one is locking you in. Some
distributions increment their major number whenever they feel like it, and
don't maintain binary compatibility across minor versions. This is a *royal*
pain in the ass for pretty much everyone who uses the distro.
4. If it ever becomes viable, Red Hat will almost certainly provide a version
of their distro targeted at the home user. It will probably run approximately
$100-$200 just like the comperable offerings from MS. They will include
security updates for more than 1 year. However, they will still provide a free
downloadable version that doesn't include support, and only gets a year of
free updates. This is *generous* for a corporate Linux supplier, not evil.
However, it still isn't as generous as what you get from some other distros
(e.g., Debian).
5. Red Hat is a corporate Linux supplier. They target people who pay them
money for a valuable service. They do not solicit donations to maintain their
for-profit viability as a corpopraion. They provide valuable services,
including support, integrations, and QA to people who are willing to pay them.
If this is not you, you are free to continue bitching at them and still not
pay them a damned thing for a less valuable service. You are also free to
switch to any of the hundreds of other distros. You are not locked in. The
only way Red Hat will survive is if they do things that *paying* customers
like. They aren't stupid. They're in the black, so they must be doing the
right things (more or less).
--
..I don't know if this is available or not, just seems like a neat way to have a needed business. What's to stop any organization from declaring themselves an Independent Redhat Certification company,posting disclaimers all over their site of course noting who owns the copyright,etc, doing honest legitimate testing, etc, and offering a cert? They could charge a competetive price, and obviously cheaper than the "official" version. And once you got one cert, make it a LOT cheaper to get current all the time, just make the first one more expensive to establish your initial bona fides and competence? Would this be illegal, or what? And I don't mean like those "Lost your diploma? Guaranteed genuine replacement doploma look a likes! 2.98$$$" like you get in spam email, I mean a real effort, just cheaper?
Why would you think that rh8 and rh9 wouldn't be
good candidates for production servers?
Is there some test that you would run against them, or just wait several months for them to magically be
production ready like you insist rh7.2 and 6.2 are.
you know, redhat themselves have eol'd the 6.2 release. Doesn't that pretty much mean you should upgrade to something supportable for production??
I think you are just making up crap. good job!
If you reply to him then The Terrorists has already won.
http://eclipse.org/ http://anjuta.org/
tasty electronic music vittles
What more could you ask for?
Why bother with Red Hat at all?
this question has been answered at least 90 times in this thread. they increase major numbers when major changes are made that break binary compatibility .. in this case to the threading libraries
And it's shit like this that undermines companies like Red Hat, Mandrake, and other open-source companies.
Red Hat Network & the Mandrake Club, etc., exist so the people who are willing to *PAY A PREMIUM* receive better or more prioritized service.
There are so many reasons this is wrong. By freeloading off of RHN, you're effectively telling Red Hat "Hey, we're not willing to pay for a product that you've spent time and money on. Since it's GPL, we're gonna get it for free anyway."
Red Hat spends time and money improving Linux, and sharing with the community. Whether or not you use their distro, like their politics, or whatnot, "Red Hat Linux" is pretty much what most people who've HEARD the word Linux think of.
By stealing the link and posting it to Freenet, you're cheating the people who paid a premium for early access.
Look at it this way: Just how much would you giggle if you placed an order and put down a deposit for a new Harley Davidson (Ferrari, Hummer, what the fuck ever), and someone was able to get their bike before you, without paying a deposit, because their buddy works for the dealership - making your wait longer?
Sorry to jump all over your ass, but Open Source companies NEED people willing and able to pay a premium to receive premium service. It improves public perception and a company's willingness to stay in business.
Freenet doesn't keep developers in Mountain Dew.
"If there's hope, it lies in the proles..."
And you use rawhide on production boxes? Not in my shop, you don't.
But rawhide is the leading indicator of the release and mod_perl being in rawhide suggests it will make the release. The complaint was that mod_perl wont be in the release.
We Sun had better hurry up and release Solaris 10 so that they can have an "X" in their product name as well.
Then there's Oracle, 9i has been around for ages, it's about time they bumped it a number too.
Though I am not familiar with the roman numeral "P" in Windows XP... I mean, Windows MCMXXXVII would look so cool on our software inventory.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
I'm an RHCE, but I now have Gentoo on all my Linux boxes. I won't be going back any time soon.
Stand Fast,
tjg.
"Hey, we have this new software, and since it is neat and cool, we want to make it part of our distro so the kids who download the .iso FOR FREE can enjoy the cool new feature, sadly, this feature/package/update breaks compatibility, so it has to be a 9.0 rather than 8.1."
Redhat is giving you the best of what they have (for free, mind you) and just because it breaks compatibility, you are gonna moan and complain that you they are releasing it.
or how about freeBSD, it too has a freeBSD-like port system...
Congratulations! You have accomplished the most creative spelling of "definitely" all week! I've seen a lot of weird spellings, but yours is a true classic!
with the packages and desktop (which I like :) from RedHat
wrong. the setup you get from freshrpms.net gives you access to RPMs built by Matthias (the guy who runs freshrpms.net). It does not give you RPMs from RedHat.
Translated: RHL == Debian testing. RHEL == Debian stable
.0 == buggy, .1 == beta and .2 == stable model anymore to I can't track the .2 versions.
By reaction as a RHL user, goodbye. RHEL is too fscking expensive to deploy in a desktop environment and RHL doesn't plan to follow the
Democrat delenda est
I think Linux people have to accept that Red Hat is a company that aims for commercial adoption, rather than for the home user.
Yes, I know they are creating a Desktop Edition, but even that is done so that a company has the option of rolling out Red Hat on all desktops...
Red Hat aims to provide high-quality, reliable support for corporations. I believe Red Hat releases, and will continue to release, ISOs for each version for the mindshare it gains as a result, *but* home users must realise that that isn't where Red Hat's focus lies at the present.
-- Askari: Give JavaScript the bird.
Use the rpm port of apt, eg see freshrpms.net who have a large apt repository of rpms. Course this wont help you get rpm updates for EOL RH releases, however, apt-get dist-upgrade is about the least painful way to upgrade a box. (still painful though).
I use Friend/Foe + mod-point modifiers as a karma/reputation system.
Open Source companies NEED people willing and able to pay a premium to receive premium service.
Maybe so, but it's not the job of consumers to prop up a business, either. RedHat knew what they were getting into when they started distributing GPL code. If there are people willing to spend the money on additional services, that's fine, Redhat will make money. But by the same token, there are people out there who are entirely UNWILLING to pay for such things. This is the gamble that REDHAT takes when they mess with GPLd software.
The analogy with the motorbike is just insane, and completely irrelevant to this situation.
hey biznitch shizop thiznitz, foshizzle my dizzle.
> Since enterprise entitlements are $120
> anway, paying $230 for an OS that doesn't
> expire for 3-5 years seems perfectly
> reasonable
Except that one must buy enterprise entitlements in bulk --- I believe the minimum quantity is 100. At least, that was what I was quoted when I spoke with RedHat via phone about a month or two ago. Which means, then, that the real cost would be at least (120 *100) + cost of distro. Note that an enterprise-level RedHat distribution is not the same as an enterprise entitlement.
By stealing the link and posting it to Freenet, you're cheating the people who paid a premium for early access.
But most of the software was not written by RedHat, and the option to make this copy is what the authors wanted. By not informing the users that they have the right to copy the software, RedHat would be violating the license, and RedHat would loose the right to sell the software.
Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
Now that I've learned that Grub doesn't need a binary update, I see your point and agree. That LI 0101010101 thing is quite annoying, as is the LI hang.
IANAL, but I play one on
I guess Red Hat now will skip semi-stable x.1
and staple x.2/x.3 and concentrate on alpha/buggy
x.0 releases....
I love Red Hat 7.3 but my experience with RH 8.0
is bad (tried it on two computers) that
if 9.0 is similar I will switch to PLD/Debian.
RedhatOS X.
"Snoop Dog" sucks major anus, and always has. rofl
I find it interesting that with all of the babbling and speculation about version numbers, no one has mentioned that RH9 should include XF4.3, which means RandR support. AFAIK this is the first layman-oriented distro with it, and I expect redhat to have something similar to the windows display control panel, allowing on the fly resolution/refresh/etc changes. Should be interesting to see...
Will 9.0 support the Opteron in both 32/64 bit mode ?
Nope. Our organization buys them in singles..
Although this all seems pretty sus - they must have already made details with stores -- as you can already pre-order it @ http://www.everythinglinux.com.au/cat/distribution s/redhat
RedHat is doing some pretty weird stuff about telling us about the actual distro -- or do we need to wait an extra week to hear that aswell? ;)
The story says Office Depot will carry RH9. Office
Depot says all software and hardware they carry has to be "Designed for Windows XP". Gee, I didn't know Red Hat and Microsoft were working hand in hand.
the well-publicised 'out of the box' antialiased fonts
I upgraded from 7.3 to 8.0 last week, which was generally considered to be a Good Thing by our customers, but one of the bits that doesn't seem to work very well is the fonts
For example, if I type an e acute (é, but not using a glyph) in HTML, with a latin1 charset specified in the metatags, it displays as 2 garbled characters with Phoenix, but displays correctly with Konqueror. On the other hand, arabic fonts work with Phoenix but display as little squares with Konqueror. Similar odd problems with kmail.
We added a couple of true type libraries to xfs, which might have something to do with it, but kmail is using the standard kmail font. Is anyone else having these sort of problems?
Virtually serving coffee
I guess I can't really fault them for releasing early to paid subscribers before being available by FTP, but I have to wonder -- does this comply with the GPL? What if the time delay were a month instead of a week? Or a year?
I suppose a subscriber can still redistribute the images using their own bandwidth.
and I abuse my broadband almost on a daily basis downloading a new distro to install and scrutinise. My impressions of Redhat 8 were very positive, it's the most polished major distribution around. But what's the deal with all the latest 2.4 kernels? Hardly any of them compile properly, and most kernel libs aren't included in default package installs. As far as I'm concerned, kernel compiling is absolutely necessary and most users at least have a clue on how to do it.
Also, there should be more Linux distributions with different/yet still complete desktops other than KDE. Don't get me wrong, KDE rocks but what's wrong with having Enlightenment as the primary GUI? And as refined as Gnome is, I don't see it included very often.
Finally, why is there not a distribution optimised for gaming? Gentoo has a special UT version and Mandrake has a Sims version pre-configured with Winex, but is that it?!
rant [on | off]
SEO Copywriter. Just Say ON
You can then put your favourite compile options and install paths in, build the thing with dynamic modules and then tweak httpd.conf to remove the modules you don't need. You end up with a "sleek" Apache setup that will probably perform better than the generic RPMs Red Hat ship. This can be important if you need every CPU cycle for your PHP/Perl stuff.
SQL Slammer: When I patched the system to 'be safe' the SQL Server no longer worked, I had to rebuild the box... and no I dont put p2p on my servers dimwit
Simple Redhat update checks the dependancies before installing anything, it then downloads thos need files. I have *never* had to fiddle with a redhat system after up2date Ill grant you Ive only been using it for 2 years.
Not sure why this post is 'Redundant'. I find it rather witty. :-) hehe... its a good one!!
reply on the pheobe mailing list from rh on why 9 and not 8.1 http://www.linuxcompatible.org/story18025.html
But how much $ will RH make off 9.0? Corporate customers tend to be conservative. I bet most of them are still using 7.3 with quite a few on 6.2. The people using 9.0 will be individuals on their home desktops, and they usually just download anyway. RH's bucks will come from their corporate products.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Actualy you are wrong about Adobe. Phosothop 6.5 and 7 releases are completely different, same goes for InDesign 1.5 and 2.0.
Is this like the IE-Netscape or AOL-MSN kid fight?
"My version is better than yours?"
Grow up RH. I'm waiting for you to deploy RH x.y on some machines here. Where's 8.1?
-- Leeeter than leet
I've filed a few against RC2:
/usr/lib and /lib before /etc/ld.so.conf (old bug though)
* Missing swedish locales in KDE
* XFce doesn't create $HOME/.xfce
* ldconfig lists
entries in
* The cusor is invisible if you run jed in
aterm
And also:
* ggv and ghostscript can't display postscript
* xmms-alsa (and/or alsa itself) is buggy
* kwrite can't navigate subdirectories on
"File->Open"
Peder
If EOL and compatibility worries you, try Windows XP. With some binary header tweaking, you can still run Windows 1.0 apps.
and i dont have to fill out a form every 60 days. i download the updates every night from one of their mirrors. i setup an apt repository and automate everything from there. you guys were probably referring to redhats up2date service. redhat is a business, and they have no obligation to provide their up2date service for free. i havent seen anything indicating they are going to deny access to their rpm's, and i dont think that $60 a year for their up2date service is alot to ask if you are not willing to update the computers yourself.
redhat provides alot to the Free software (in the gnu sense) community by employing many programmers and releasing the source code to the community. the parent comment comparing them to microsoft is ridiculous. what does skaeight do for the community aside from making gross predictions and unrealistic comparisions.
-- john
i dont think you can fault them for the mp3 thing. they really had no choice-it's quite unrealistic to expect them to pay a royalty each time someone downloads a product with an mp3 player. you should really write the fraunhofer institute for threatening to charge royalties for the player. redhat cannot afford (should not be expected) to deal with these legal issues.
like you mentioned, you can use apt4rpm from fresh rpms. i would encourage you to do this. i set up my own repository and i'm really happy with this. i'm actually thinking about getting a membership to redhat-not so much to use their service, but as a way to thank them for providing me with a wonderful and inexpensive operating system.
-- john
It's probably because Slackware 9.0 recently came out and RedHat doesn't want people to think that "Linux version 9.0" is better than "8.1". AVN (Advanced Version Numbering) is a commonly known RedHat PR tehnique.
How exactly do you go about setting up your own repository. Does that mean that you could manually download something off the web, put it in your repository and then use apt to install it? That would be nice w/ things like mozilla and galeon.
i used their instructions here:
Creating your own apt repository server
these are not the most comprehensive instructions, but after reading this page and looking at their scripts i was able to get it working.
this gives me access to redhat's os, updates and freshrpm's rpms like the xmms stuff. it works really well. i'm using it to manage about 15 computers running redhat 7.2, 7.3 and 8.0.
with some mucking around, you should be able to make other packages work with it.
-- john
And I totally agree with you on these points. My objection was circumventing the Premium services. I'm not advocating that people shouldn't share and distribute GPL/Open Source software, just that the RHN subscribers shouldn't be shorted from their "Priority" service.
"If there's hope, it lies in the proles..."
Explain why the analogy is "just insane" - RHN subscribers pay a premium for premiere or "First Come, First Service".
"If there's hope, it lies in the proles..."
Theoretically yeah I guess, although I agree with the other pster who said that it's not the consumers' responsibility to prop up businesses.
Practically I don't see it as a huge problem. I mean would you trust some ISOs floating around Freenet? Would you trust them enough to deploy them into production?
Cheers
Stor
"Yeah well there's a lot of stuff that should be, but isn't"
A RH .0 release really did mean that they'd changed something big, like a kernel major version, a new glibc, a new compiler system. Historically the .0 releases have been bug-ridden, especially the 7.0
Reviews are pretty much useless. You need to work with a distribution that works for you. You might find an important problem with a new release right away, or later down the track. If you have a distribution that works for you now, why upgrade at all?
But I wonder why they go directly from 8.0 to 9.0. Maybe they realized what a huge mistake 8.0 was? *Read-support for NTFS not precompiled into kernel *Built-in XMMS doesn't support mp3(Yes, I know it was to avoid litigation from MPEG) *Bluecurve *Slow, etc.
Every paper published in a respectable journal should have a preface by
the author stating why he is publishing the article, and what value he
sees in it. I have no hope that this practice will ever be adopted.
-- Morris Kline
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