I'm sorry, but unless you're positive your project is a toy project and will always remain so, it is extremely unlikely MySQL can be justified for a project.
Unless you are looking to do something like Facebook. The proof is in the pudding. It works. It stays up. Its rarely seems to suffer performance issues. Its not been hacked (that I know of). Where's the real world problem? All the chest thumping is over "I could have done it better" is just hooey.
If someone wanted/needed transactions, why would they ever opt for an engine that would not work for them? Ignorance? Laziness? Secondly, the "default engine" does indeed support transactions. And referential integrity.
Exchange is not a "standard", but a product that does not play well with standards. And only in business environments. The consumer market is juicier than the business market, and consumers could care less about ActiveSync, Exchange, or Outlook. So this strategy fails. Which is why MS might try it. They've tried almost everything else without much to show for it.
Does Microsoft know about this? Isn't this the same strategy that led MS to cut off Netscape's "air supply", and then led to the dominance of IE way back in the day?
The average user does not spend all day in front of a computer. Those that do, have more discriminating tastes and account for a disproportionate volume of web traffic. I also question the stats, but only because I can't think of anyone I know who actually uses IE.
Does an IE uninstall work these days? It used to be MS disabled that featuring claiming it was too integrated into the OS, and was not possible.
And better yet, just uninstall Windows, and use something else. Its not like the first time they've hit below the belt. Its been a pattern of behavior for awhile.
At least with my iPhone, I know I'm going to get all the iOS updates. If you buy an Android phone, there is a good chance you aren't going to get updates to the newer versions of Android.
That's just plain wrong. Apple no longer supports the original iphone. Whatever version you have will someday become obsolete as well. Do we need to distinguish OS upgrades from feature / security updates. Seems to me I've gotten both on my android via Verizon.
I've been developing web applications for over ten years
I've been doing web development for 15 years, starting when Spry Mosaic was all the rage. So using your logic of longevity, my opinion should trump yours, and I can rightly and politely say you are just wrong. Most "users" have no idea what Silverlight is, and don't care. They just want things to "work". And Silverlight is ultimately a broken technology since it is so platform and device dependent. It can't win, long term. Best to leave it by the curb, before it does too much damage and concentrate our collective efforts on technologies that will move things along.
This thread was worth reading after all.
The only rational reaction to deliberately disruptive, inferior technologies like silverlight is to "just say no".
What *is* a sign of some seriously suck ass sales, is the fact that there has been no hyped up announcement from MS. Like "Vista sold x zillion copies in the last _______, the best selling product of all time!" Ditto, xbox and anything they have that really sells well. The silence is quite telling on this one.
And, there are many other legitimate reasons to say bad things about those guys, incompetence in competitive markets not withstanding.
Yea, but come on, this *is* MS we are talking about. It is a perfectly legitimate conclusion based on 20 years+ of history. Why would anybody give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to integrity and such?
They already tried to "revolutionize" the market -- with Kin. This is just a matter of throwing spaghetti on the wall, until something sticks. And yea, they suck at more stuff than not.
... because you only have to use Google Docs for about 2 minutes to run into commonly-used features from Microsoft Office that just don't exist. I create a chart and I can't format the axes, I can't put in a trend line, I can't copy and paste it into a document.
That's one commonly used feature I've never used before in 2 years or so using gdocs. Nor, knew that I was missing out on something.
Microsoft's approach involves selling software and client retention.
No, their approach involves getting a monopoly on something by hook or by crook then keeping the riff raff out. The only markets they make significant money on, are the monopolies.
Mabye in your world, but in our office, we've yet to hit something Google docs is not good enough at. And the ease of sharing documents, and collaborating vs MS tools is light years ahead. No contest. MS Office is too desktop bound to be useful in all situations.
My biggest problem is that MS has deliberately broken standards to hold backup online development because it is a threat to their desktop based monopolies. Its not like they don't know what the standards are, or they can't afford to adopt them. Its a deliberate torpedoing of the market to protect their cash cow monopolies. Screw 'em. They can't be trusted to do the right thing. Them saying they will at some point in the future does not cut it. They have a long history of essentially lying through their teeth.
Look I know this is slashdot and everyone feels compelled to nit pick every statement. I was really just countering the argument that it is down to IE and FF, and Safari, etc are non-factors or whatever the original statement upstream was. Great, throw Opera in there. Nice product.
But, I don't follow the math. iPod touch and iPhone alone are out ahead of Opera on that link. If you factor in the coming Android storm, and the fact that Blackberry is moving to webkit, plus other players, yes, webkit does rule in that niche. And its a growing niche, so yes, I'd say those browsers are players and are factors.
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I'm sorry, but unless you're positive your project is a toy project and will always remain so, it is extremely unlikely MySQL can be justified for a project.
Unless you are looking to do something like Facebook. The proof is in the pudding. It works. It stays up. Its rarely seems to suffer performance issues. Its not been hacked (that I know of). Where's the real world problem? All the chest thumping is over "I could have done it better" is just hooey.
If someone wanted/needed transactions, why would they ever opt for an engine that would not work for them? Ignorance? Laziness? Secondly, the "default engine" does indeed support transactions. And referential integrity.
Exchange is not a "standard", but a product that does not play well with standards. And only in business environments. The consumer market is juicier than the business market, and consumers could care less about ActiveSync, Exchange, or Outlook. So this strategy fails. Which is why MS might try it. They've tried almost everything else without much to show for it.
Does Microsoft know about this? Isn't this the same strategy that led MS to cut off Netscape's "air supply", and then led to the dominance of IE way back in the day?
The average user does not spend all day in front of a computer. Those that do, have more discriminating tastes and account for a disproportionate volume of web traffic. I also question the stats, but only because I can't think of anyone I know who actually uses IE.
Does an IE uninstall work these days? It used to be MS disabled that featuring claiming it was too integrated into the OS, and was not possible. And better yet, just uninstall Windows, and use something else. Its not like the first time they've hit below the belt. Its been a pattern of behavior for awhile.
Because that would be stoopid. The Chrome life cycle is much shorter, so less reason to even consider a beta.
Fine as in a distant fifth in a five horse race. The only good news is that they are not sixth.
Who's court though? Iran's? China's? The US's where many judges are elected, or are vetted by politicians first?
At least with my iPhone, I know I'm going to get all the iOS updates. If you buy an Android phone, there is a good chance you aren't going to get updates to the newer versions of Android.
That's just plain wrong. Apple no longer supports the original iphone. Whatever version you have will someday become obsolete as well. Do we need to distinguish OS upgrades from feature / security updates. Seems to me I've gotten both on my android via Verizon.
I've been developing web applications for over ten years
I've been doing web development for 15 years, starting when Spry Mosaic was all the rage. So using your logic of longevity, my opinion should trump yours, and I can rightly and politely say you are just wrong. Most "users" have no idea what Silverlight is, and don't care. They just want things to "work". And Silverlight is ultimately a broken technology since it is so platform and device dependent. It can't win, long term. Best to leave it by the curb, before it does too much damage and concentrate our collective efforts on technologies that will move things along.
This thread was worth reading after all. The only rational reaction to deliberately disruptive, inferior technologies like silverlight is to "just say no".
What *is* a sign of some seriously suck ass sales, is the fact that there has been no hyped up announcement from MS. Like "Vista sold x zillion copies in the last _______, the best selling product of all time!" Ditto, xbox and anything they have that really sells well. The silence is quite telling on this one. And, there are many other legitimate reasons to say bad things about those guys, incompetence in competitive markets not withstanding.
Yea, but come on, this *is* MS we are talking about. It is a perfectly legitimate conclusion based on 20 years+ of history. Why would anybody give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to integrity and such?
Yea, after 20 years of shooting themselves and anyone near them, in the foot.
Yea, but its from Microsoft. A huge turn off for many people. The old backside is still a bit raw from the last few go rounds with those guys.
They already tried to "revolutionize" the market -- with Kin. This is just a matter of throwing spaghetti on the wall, until something sticks. And yea, they suck at more stuff than not.
Like they are adhering to some specs and completely fucking with others (that aren't in their hand crafted test suite)? I doubt it.
Actually, the problem is that there is such a long history of dishonesty, that there is an equally long history of skepticism and mistrust.
... because you only have to use Google Docs for about 2 minutes to run into commonly-used features from Microsoft Office that just don't exist. I create a chart and I can't format the axes, I can't put in a trend line, I can't copy and paste it into a document.
That's one commonly used feature I've never used before in 2 years or so using gdocs. Nor, knew that I was missing out on something.
Microsoft's approach involves selling software and client retention.
No, their approach involves getting a monopoly on something by hook or by crook then keeping the riff raff out. The only markets they make significant money on, are the monopolies.
Mabye in your world, but in our office, we've yet to hit something Google docs is not good enough at. And the ease of sharing documents, and collaborating vs MS tools is light years ahead. No contest. MS Office is too desktop bound to be useful in all situations.
Open formats? From MS. That's a paradocs! They can't even faithfully render some older versions of their own stuff accurately.
My biggest problem is that MS has deliberately broken standards to hold backup online development because it is a threat to their desktop based monopolies. Its not like they don't know what the standards are, or they can't afford to adopt them. Its a deliberate torpedoing of the market to protect their cash cow monopolies. Screw 'em. They can't be trusted to do the right thing. Them saying they will at some point in the future does not cut it. They have a long history of essentially lying through their teeth.
Look I know this is slashdot and everyone feels compelled to nit pick every statement. I was really just countering the argument that it is down to IE and FF, and Safari, etc are non-factors or whatever the original statement upstream was. Great, throw Opera in there. Nice product. But, I don't follow the math. iPod touch and iPhone alone are out ahead of Opera on that link. If you factor in the coming Android storm, and the fact that Blackberry is moving to webkit, plus other players, yes, webkit does rule in that niche. And its a growing niche, so yes, I'd say those browsers are players and are factors.